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Inside OranjeBTC’s New Bitcoin Equity ETF · The Starting Block

0:06
Welcome back to The Starting Block.
0:07
Happy Tuesday to you wherever you're
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joining us around the world.
0:10
My name is Gareth Jenkinson.
0:11
I'm your host and head of multimedia
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here at The Block.
0:13
It's a great pleasure to have you
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with us.
0:15
We're wrapping up two months of The
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Starting block this week, so it's
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been a happy road so far.
0:21
And if you've missed any of the
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great interviews that we've had
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on the show over the past two
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months, you can go and check that
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out on The Block's X account if
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you're watching us on X.
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go and checkout all of our
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well. While you're there, please
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like and subscribe to our channel
0:39
and just to
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tee up some of the recent big
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interviews that we've had, Palo
0:45
Arduino joined us last week, Friday,
0:47
to talk about their
0:49
KPMG audit of Tether,
0:51
finally getting a big four auditing
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firm to verify all
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their reserves, whether that's
0:55
Bitcoin, dollars in the bank,
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equity, or their massive
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gold reserves as well.
1:00
Really interesting conversation.
1:02
I'd impress upon you to go and check
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that interview out.
1:05
Plenty of other great conversations
1:06
that we've had in recent weeks on
1:08
the show that are on those
1:09
platforms.
1:10
If you're here for the first time,
1:12
we're gonna start off the show with
1:13
the Block Briefing, which is our
1:14
rundown of the top news you need to
1:16
know from the last 24 hours,
1:18
curated from the Block's editorial
1:20
newsroom, great bunch of journalists
1:22
working behind the scenes.
1:23
To keep our newsroom ticking and
1:26
keep you informed enough to date on
1:27
what's happening in the
1:28
cryptocurrency industry.
1:29
So without further ado, we are going
1:31
to jump into the block briefing.
1:32
And then just to announce who we've
1:34
got joining us on the show today,
1:35
we've got Sam Callahan, who's of
1:37
course the Director of Bitcoin
1:38
Strategy and Research at Orange
1:40
BTC.
1:41
Just a public service announcement,
1:43
it's not Oranje BTC, as a lot of
1:45
people tend to say out there, it is
1:46
Orange BTC moving me talking
1:48
about a new Bitcoin ETF
1:50
product that they've launched in
1:51
Brazil. Bye.
1:51
And then we'll be having a wide
1:53
ranging conversation about the state
1:54
of Bitcoin treasury companies, the
1:56
state Bitcoin and what the rest of
1:58
2026 looks like.
1:59
So that's what we've got coming up
2:01
on the show.
2:02
But first things first, let me give
2:03
you a rundown of the top stories you
2:05
need to know. Our top headline of
2:06
the day, Bitmine keeps stacking
2:08
ETH. The company added nearly 10,000
2:10
ETH over the past week, pushing its
2:13
total treasury past 5.8
2:15
million ETH worth roughly $11
2:17
billion.
2:18
That makes Bitmime the largest
2:20
corporate ETH holder on the planet.
2:22
And the second biggest corporate
2:23
crypto treasury overall, trailing
2:25
of course, strategy's $58
2:27
billion Bitcoin pile.
2:29
Of course, we made mention of
2:31
the latest update from strategy
2:33
yesterday. They didn't buy or sell
2:34
any more Bitcoin last week, but they
2:36
did sell some MSTR shares
2:38
and beefed up their US
2:40
dollar reserves to continue meeting
2:42
their dividend obligations to pay
2:44
back investors in
2:47
largely their STRC product.
2:49
Bitmine now holds about 48%
2:51
of Ether's entire supply, putting
2:53
it 96% of the way to
2:55
its self-styled alchemy of
2:57
5% target.
2:59
And more than 5 million of those
3:00
tokens are staked earning
3:02
yield. So a big focus of
3:04
Tom Lee at Bitmime.
3:06
Our next story, a Bitcoin miner
3:08
turned AI play.
3:09
Iren just hit a milestone with
3:11
Microsoft.
3:12
The company delivered the first of
3:14
four plan Horizon AI
3:16
cloud deployments under its five
3:18
year $9.7 billion
3:20
contract.
3:21
Horizon One is a 50 megawatt
3:23
liquid-cooled sighted irons,
3:25
Childress, Texas campus, and
3:27
it's already earned NVIDIA's
3:29
exemplar cloud status.
3:31
The remaining three phases are due
3:32
later in 2026,
3:34
eventually totaling 200 megawatts of
3:36
capacity packed with NVIDia's
3:38
GB300 GPUs.
3:41
It's another sign of miners pivoting
3:42
hard into AI infrastructure to
3:45
chase bigger, steadier revenues.
3:47
Now to a security mess
3:49
at Harmony, the layer one blockchain
3:51
plans to roll back its network to
3:53
before last week's exploits after
3:55
concluding an attacker forged
3:57
more than 3 trillion of its
3:59
native one tokens.
4:01
Validators will wind both
4:03
shards back to just before that
4:05
fraudulent mint, discarding
4:07
every block and transaction after
4:08
that. Harmony says it weighed other
4:10
options, including a token burn,
4:12
blacklisting wallets, and even a
4:14
token migration.
4:15
But landed on the rollback as the
4:16
fairest and most secure fix to
4:19
that problem.
4:19
A drastic move and a reminder of how
4:21
far chains will go to
4:23
undo and exploit.
4:25
Then Washington is putting
4:26
stablecoin rules out for public
4:28
feedback.
4:29
The US Treasury issued a notice
4:31
of proposed rulemaking on Monday,
4:34
opening comments on how it will
4:35
implement a key section of the
4:37
Genius Act, the landmark stablecoin
4:39
law that was signed into law
4:41
last year.
4:42
That law takes effect in January,
4:43
2027.
4:45
And once it does, issuers generally
4:46
won't be able to offer payment
4:48
stablecoins in the US without
4:49
a proper federal or state
4:51
license.
4:52
It also puts guardrails on foreign
4:54
issued stablecoins.
4:55
So this comment window is the
4:57
industry's chance to shape that
4:59
fine print.
5:00
Then the blockchain association is
5:02
siding with the SEC on a piece of
5:04
market plumbing.
5:05
The group filed a letter back in the
5:07
agency's proposal to scrap two
5:09
decades old regulation NMS
5:11
rules. Arguing that they've
5:13
outlived their purpose and could
5:14
stand in the way of tokenization.
5:16
Rule 611 forces trading venues
5:18
to honor the best price available
5:20
elsewhere, while Rule 610e
5:23
limits locked and crossed quotes.
5:25
The association says rescinding them
5:27
would be a clear path
5:29
for tokenized securities.
5:31
It's a notable moment for the crypto
5:33
lobby cheering on a Wall Street rule
5:35
rollback.
5:36
Our last story of the day, Ripple is
5:37
expanding its payments footprint in
5:39
Asia. The company has partnered with
5:41
South Korea's John Book Bank to
5:43
roll out Ripple payments for
5:45
real-time cross-border remittances.
5:47
The pitch round-the-clock settlement
5:49
in seconds to minutes versus
5:51
traditional SWIFT transfers that
5:52
can drag on for days.
5:54
John Book becomes the first regional
5:56
bank in Korea to deploy the
5:58
service, targeting import-export
6:01
firms, IT startups, and online
6:03
content creators.
6:04
Ripple's Asia Pacific chief says
6:06
regional banks play a vital role
6:08
in the real economy, and this deal
6:10
plants Ripple flag deeper.
6:11
In that market.
6:12
If you're looking for more
6:13
information or news, you can go to
6:15
the block's website.
6:16
That's theblock.co and
6:18
you can check out all of the
6:20
latest news coming from our
6:21
fantastic news team.
6:23
And that's it for the block briefing
6:24
today. We're going to move on very
6:26
swiftly into the hot seat today.
6:27
No market pulse. I think we'll be
6:29
diving deep into that tomorrow on
6:30
the show.
6:31
It's a great pleasure to have Sam
6:33
Callahan, Director of Bitcoin
6:34
Strategy and Research at Orange BTC
6:36
back on the show.
6:37
We met in person and had him on the
6:39
live stream at BTC Prague
6:41
so First things first, Sam, welcome
6:43
back. How are you doing?
6:45
Great, good morning, thanks for
6:46
having me back.
6:47
Yeah, it's great to have you.
6:49
Let's jump straight into the big
6:50
news. Last week, the launch of
6:53
a new product,
6:55
Orange BTC launched the Digi 11,
6:57
which is touted as Brazil's first
6:59
monthly income ETF focused
7:01
on Bitcoin preferred equity.
7:03
And for anyone out there wondering
7:03
what that means, it means that this
7:05
ETF is essentially giving exposure
7:07
to products like
7:10
Strategies, SDRC and
7:12
Strive products.
7:14
You've obviously played a key role
7:16
in rolling this out and designing
7:18
this product. Can you talk to us and
7:19
give us the TLDR of what we need to
7:21
know about the G11.
7:23
Yeah, thanks, Gareth.
7:25
So OrangePTC has been
7:27
working hard behind the scenes to
7:28
bring this to market.
7:29
And we announced it last week at
7:30
Blockchain Rio.
7:32
It's a new ETF that pays monthly
7:33
distributions in Brazilian
7:35
reais with currency
7:38
hedging and daily liquidity.
7:40
It will initially uh,
7:42
have a weighting of about 95%
7:44
STRC and 5%
7:46
of Strive SATA.
7:47
And we hope that that universe
7:49
expands with more issuers in the
7:51
future, but it's a passive
7:53
fund that holds a basket of the
7:55
perpetual preferred equities
7:57
like the strategies, STRCs,
7:59
as you mentioned.
8:00
But the idea is that this is a
8:02
differentiated source of income
8:04
in this market that loves
8:06
fixed income instruments.
8:08
But there's a problem, is
8:10
that all the traditional
8:11
alternatives have shared
8:14
the same source of income.
8:16
As well as have the same risks,
8:18
and mainly that they have Brazilian
8:19
risk.
8:20
A lot of income products are either
8:22
you're investing in a Brazilian
8:23
bank, you're lending to
8:25
the Brazilian government,
8:27
you're a investing in REIT that
8:29
invests in Brazilian properties.
8:31
This is different.
8:32
This source of income
8:34
derives from some of the
8:36
largest corporate Bitcoin balance
8:37
sheets in the world.
8:38
And so we think it could be quite
8:40
popular because not only
8:42
does it have things like monthly
8:43
distributions denominated in a local
8:45
currency, but it also is
8:48
a really competitive yield because
8:49
it is supported by Bitcoin.
8:50
And so, we think we estimate that it
8:52
could return about CDI,
8:54
which is the benchmark plus three to
8:56
five percentage points, which is
8:58
quite competitive in that market.
8:59
So we're excited to bring this
9:01
these perpetual preferred equity
9:03
instruments to this market.
9:04
And we partnered
9:06
with some great...
9:08
We created the index with Market
9:10
Vector and then we partnered with
9:13
some asset managers to
9:15
bring this to market.
9:16
And so this is what we wanted to do
9:17
is set out at Orange BTC, which is
9:19
launch Bitcoin-backed financial
9:20
products and improve investor
9:22
access to Bitcoin.
9:24
So like this is our mandate.
9:26
And we're just following through
9:28
that. Bitcoin bear markets are
9:29
for building. And that's what Orange
9:31
BTC is doing.
9:33
This must have been something that
9:34
was kind of built and designed
9:36
fairly recently, just given that
9:39
SATA, and I guess STRC has been
9:41
around a little bit longer than
9:43
SATA has.
9:45
But yeah, can you talk to us a
9:47
little bit about the thinking and
9:48
the actual design of the product and
9:50
how long that's been in the works?
9:51
I would say less than a year.
9:54
Yeah, yeah, we've been working on it
9:55
for the last couple quarters.
9:56
It was a little bit challenging
9:58
because there is a lot of education
9:59
around these new instruments.
10:02
They've come on the market,
10:04
they've made a mark really
10:06
early on, you know, they've already
10:08
raised a cumulative, collectively
10:10
over $16 billion across
10:12
all these perpetual preferred
10:13
instruments, but the market's still
10:15
wrapping their head around them.
10:16
So we actually had to go and partner
10:18
with Market Vector to create an
10:20
index and create a methodology
10:21
around these instruments.
10:23
You know we We have an
10:25
eligibility screening of the
10:26
securities. It takes into account
10:28
total Bitcoin holdings,
10:30
market cap, liquidity,
10:32
and then volatility to
10:34
ultimately create a passive
10:36
fund of basket of these instruments
10:38
that provides this income.
10:39
We also had to create
10:41
a FX hedging to
10:43
deliver that local currency
10:45
yield.
10:46
And so, we had to remove the
10:48
fluctuations between the USD and
10:50
the BRL because SEDA
10:52
and STRC are U.S.
10:54
Denominated instruments.
10:56
And so we wanted to strip that
10:57
currency fluctuations and deliver
10:59
a real yield to Brazil.
11:02
And so We had to incorporate that
11:03
into the index as well.
11:04
So there was a lot of work behind
11:05
the scenes to do this.
11:07
But we got it done.
11:08
And, you know, we hope that it will
11:09
begin trading on the B3 in
11:12
early September.
11:14
I can imagine then you're keeping a
11:16
very close eye on what's going on,
11:18
both at Strive and Strategy.
11:20
And, obviously, Michael Saylor
11:22
doesn't sleep, and I guess the
11:24
guys at Strived don't either.
11:25
We're getting information every
11:26
week, new updates every week.
11:29
Saylor hasn't bought any Bitcoin for
11:30
a number of weeks, and
11:33
they've been beefing the U.S.
11:34
Dollar reserves to I
11:36
guess try and get SDRC back to that
11:38
kind of $100 mark.
11:40
I don't want to say peg because it's
11:41
not a peg, but get it back up to
11:43
that with a lot of buybacks.
11:45
You have to follow most of this
11:46
quite closely, right?
11:48
Given that 95% of
11:50
the Digi 11 product is
11:52
back by, or exposure
11:54
to SDR.
11:56
Yeah, look, I mean,
11:58
I think it's funny that it's a news
12:00
story when they don't buy Bitcoin
12:01
for several weeks.
12:04
It really speaks to how much Bitcoin
12:06
they've been buying broadly.
12:08
And even in the second quarter
12:09
alone, taking into account
12:11
some of the sales, they still
12:13
bought over 80,000 Bitcoins.
12:15
So I think people really need to
12:16
zoom out a little bit.
12:17
That's what they mean when they say
12:18
net accumulator.
12:19
And what they're doing now is
12:21
they're strengthening up their
12:22
balance sheet.
12:23
They're improving their capital
12:25
structure because they want to get
12:26
STRC back to par.
12:28
And why do they want do that?
12:29
Well, they have found over the
12:31
last five years that these
12:33
perpetual preferred equity
12:34
instruments is the best way
12:36
to accumulate more Bitcoin for
12:39
the common shareholder.
12:40
It's the most creative way to do it.
12:42
And right now, it's imperative
12:44
that the STRC
12:45
gets back to power to allow them to
12:47
accumulate more bitcoin.
12:48
But it's also their goal to have.
12:51
That instrument trade with less
12:52
volatility than Bitcoin, which it
12:54
has.
12:55
But they found they're kind of
12:56
responding to the market.
12:58
The market told them, we really
13:00
liked having a USD reserve
13:02
to support those dividends.
13:04
And so they're increasing the USD
13:06
reserve I think $4.8
13:08
billion now today.
13:10
They're really showing that they can
13:11
still have access to capital markets
13:13
despite challenging market
13:14
conditions.
13:16
And the reason they're doing
13:18
this is because
13:20
Their goal is long term to
13:22
create a Bitcoin accumulation
13:24
machine that consistently
13:26
increases Bitcoin per share over
13:28
time.
13:29
And so every single transaction
13:31
might not result in more Bitcoin
13:33
holdings, but they're thinking about
13:35
not the next quarter, but the next
13:37
five years, 10 years.
13:39
How do we build this
13:41
capital structure that allows us to
13:43
consistently accumulate Bitcoin?
13:45
And they believe that's through
13:46
STRC. And so.
13:48
I think people need to like not
13:49
focus on every single action and
13:51
kind of look at the big picture of
13:52
A, how much Bitcoin they've been
13:54
buying across the entire,
13:56
let's say year.
13:57
And then two, you know, what
13:59
their goals are long forward
14:01
and and what they're trying to do to
14:03
create a structure that works for
14:05
common shareholders over the long
14:07
term. And so I think that's that's
14:09
how we're viewing it and we've been
14:10
pretty we've
14:12
been supportive of what they've been
14:14
doing over the last few.
14:16
Let's say month or so to
14:17
achieve that goal of getting
14:19
STRC back to par, whether that's
14:22
the STRC buybacks,
14:24
creating a dividend
14:26
reserve specifically earmarked
14:28
for the dividends,
14:30
having a BTC monetization
14:32
program related to it.
14:34
So all those things are actually
14:35
good in terms of supporting
14:37
the digital credit franchise.
14:41
Yeah, obviously I saw
14:43
some clips doing the
14:45
rounds in the last 24 hours also
14:47
of one of the MSTR
14:49
shareholders on the
14:52
quarterly financial call
14:54
asking what's the plan for
14:56
MSTR in the long run here because
14:58
I bought a lot of MSTR shares
15:00
for my children and I'm down bad and
15:02
I'll even just go, I
15:04
hold some MSTRs and I am also down
15:06
bad. So a lot of people are
15:08
kind of sitting there thinking like.
15:10
You're putting STRC very much first
15:12
in terms of the priorities
15:14
here.
15:16
And what about MSTR?
15:17
Like, when does that start to look
15:18
up? Do you have any thoughts on
15:19
that?
15:20
Yeah, I think if I'm an
15:22
MSTR shareholder, I
15:24
should have a long time horizon
15:26
first off, you know, and
15:28
this is amplified Bitcoin, you're
15:30
in MST because you want even more
15:32
volatility than spot Bitcoin.
15:34
Right? So you should have a
15:35
long-time horizon when you hold
15:37
MSTr.
15:38
And what I really care about
15:40
is how much senior obligations
15:42
are above me.
15:43
And specifically, like, for
15:44
instance, when they paid down
15:46
portion of their convertible debt
15:48
a few months ago, the market
15:49
kind of reacted poorly to that
15:51
move. But if I'm an MSTR
15:53
shareholder, I should actually like
15:54
that. Because it strengthens
15:56
the entire capital structure makes
15:58
it more resilient, it actually
15:59
removes a senior obligation.
16:01
That is a hard cash obligation.
16:04
You know, when those converts are
16:05
trading under their conversion
16:06
price, that could lead
16:08
to you know, that actually has a
16:10
maturity and they have to pay that
16:12
back the principle that's unlike the
16:14
preferreds.
16:15
And so if they're making moves like
16:16
this, like strengthening the USD
16:18
reserve in order to
16:20
improve the price stability of
16:22
STRC and an
16:24
increased demand for STRC,
16:26
which is, like I said before, the
16:27
best way to accumulate Bitcoin
16:29
long-term for the MST or
16:31
common shareholders.
16:32
You know, I should be supportive of
16:33
this if I have a long- term view,
16:35
because what they're doing is just
16:36
strengthening the balance sheet and
16:38
the capital structure to
16:40
make them more capable of
16:42
accumulating more Bitcoin over the
16:43
long-terms.
16:44
And so I think, you know,
16:46
amplified Bitcoin exposure, more
16:48
volatility in the spot Bitcoin, you
16:49
should expect it to be lower than
16:51
Bitcoin and bear markets.
16:52
And then like it has in previous
16:54
bull markets, it should outperform
16:56
in bull markets.
16:57
And that's why you held it.
16:59
You know, so I sympathize
17:01
with the people. It's a bear market.
17:03
You know. It's hard when you look at
17:05
on paper, you see it down a lot.
17:07
But try to remember what it was
17:08
like, you know, two years ago when
17:10
it was the exact opposite.
17:11
And that's why you gain exposure to.
17:14
You know, amplify Bitcoin
17:16
exposure, it's more volatile.
17:19
Yeah, just taking the conversation
17:21
back to Digi 11 now, can you talk to
17:23
us a little bit about the appetite
17:24
for the product? I mean, it's only
17:25
been a week, but now that that's
17:27
gone to market in Brazil,
17:29
are there a lot of people that are
17:30
interested in this? And do you think
17:31
that it could kind of set a
17:33
benchmark? Because I know there are
17:35
a few other products out there that
17:37
aren't very location specific.
17:39
And I think I'm looking at
17:41
things like Saturn, sort of in
17:44
the DeFi space that also has
17:45
exposure to.
17:46
Um you know um
17:49
strategy related products that kind
17:50
of thing but yeah in this specific
17:52
market do you think it'll take a
17:53
little while for people to warm up
17:55
the idea and do you think it can
17:56
set a precedent or get more
17:58
financial institutions launching
18:00
similar products that are you
18:02
know packaging strc
18:05
say to similar bitcoin backed
18:07
preferreds
18:09
Yeah, look, we, we did this because
18:11
we think it could have substantial
18:13
demand in this market.
18:14
You know, we just announced that
18:15
it's not live yet, but we've already
18:17
had an outpouring of
18:19
questions and interest from
18:21
retail and institutional investors,
18:23
uh, because this is a market that
18:26
appreciates fixed income, you
18:28
know, where it has pretty high
18:29
yields. But like I said, no,
18:31
they have no short of, of income
18:33
products, but they're all derived
18:34
from similar sources and carry
18:36
similar risks.
18:38
Digi 11 is genuinely different.
18:40
It offers a competitive yield, but
18:42
it's generated by companies whose
18:44
balance sheets are full of Bitcoin.
18:47
And so for Brazilian investors,
18:49
now they have a new way to earn
18:50
income with a different risk and
18:52
return profile.
18:53
And that's really attractive.
18:54
I mean, it's not very often where a
18:56
brand new income
18:58
ETF comes to market.
19:00
And so, if an investor wanted
19:02
to access...
19:04
You know, US security like STRC
19:06
or SATA when they're sitting in
19:07
Brazil's, you know they would have
19:09
to open an overseas brokerage
19:10
account, execute the
19:12
FX transactions, maybe they do their
19:14
own hedging of the FX themselves,
19:17
and it's not the most tax-efficient
19:19
way to gain exposure to those
19:21
instruments.
19:22
Digi11 transforms that
19:24
international strategy and packages
19:26
in a vehicle that works for
19:28
these investors. It's just publicly
19:29
listed.
19:30
Daily liquidity, anybody could use
19:32
it. So we think there's gonna be
19:33
quite a lot of demand for it.
19:35
And that's what we hope for.
19:35
But it comes down to our education
19:37
efforts, our marketing efforts and
19:39
market conditions, all different
19:41
things like that.
19:42
But there's a reason why we decided
19:43
to build this and launch it.
19:45
This is our way of bringing these
19:48
perpetual preferred equity
19:49
instruments to the market today.
19:51
Yeah, when it comes to the payouts
19:53
of did you live and I understand
19:55
it's monthly
19:57
Figure I have a certain lack of
19:59
understanding of some of these
20:00
financial products, but it
20:02
kind of Bitcoin I mean an ETF like
20:03
this ever have daily payouts like
20:06
strive say the product has and
20:08
was that a considered consideration
20:10
It was a consideration.
20:11
We explored what was possible, given
20:13
the traditional plumbing in the
20:15
market. Here, it's more about the
20:17
traditional plumbing, as well as our
20:19
partners involved, the
20:21
fund administrator.
20:24
We all have to kind of work together
20:25
to make this ETF work.
20:28
And ultimately, we decided to
20:30
start monthly was
20:32
what we were able to do.
20:35
In the future, as the plumbing
20:37
and rails improve, Like we hope
20:39
that we're able to.
20:40
Potentially issue the distributions
20:42
more frequently.
20:43
But today, that's pretty interesting
20:46
in this market as well.
20:47
I mean, a monthly distribution in
20:48
Brazil, a lot of other income
20:50
products pay less frequently than
20:52
that. So we're excited that it pays
20:54
monthly, but as we
20:56
work with the traditional rails and
20:58
technologies, we hope to increase
21:00
that frequency.
21:02
Sam, obviously, when we met each
21:04
other in BTC Prague, you kind of
21:05
gave us your background and how you
21:06
got into Bitcoin and you've been in
21:08
the industry for quite a long time
21:09
and you are in avid Bitcoin.
21:11
I'm sure you've watched with
21:13
great interest like the rest of
21:15
us have and perhaps a little bit of
21:16
trepidation with the cold card
21:18
exploit, the BIP 110 fork
21:20
in recent weeks as
21:22
well, which is probably
21:24
something I actually don't want to
21:25
give any more air time to.
21:26
So I'm actually not going to talk to
21:27
you about that today, but I did want
21:29
to on cold card and
21:32
just what that kind of meant for the
21:33
industry because obviously
21:34
everyone's taken stock of what has
21:35
happened.
21:36
A lot of Bitcoin was stolen in a
21:38
very unfortunate way.