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64: The least rewarding job in the company · Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth

• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bite-Size Sales Podcast, where we believe that you don't need to take time out of the field or off the phones, stuck in a classroom, in order to get great sales and sales leadership training, and that taking bite-sized steps each day to get better at your craft is the best way to improve your results.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Andrew Monahan, and I'm using my 20 plus years in B2B sales to bring you simple, actionable ideas that you can use every day to help you get better.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get to the tip for today, this episode is sponsored by Sales Bluebird.
• 1:18
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• 1:41
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• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to episode 64 of the podcast.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm recording this in early February 2020 on a sunny but snowy Colorado morning.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this episode represents a bit of a reset on this podcast.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing it now for about five months or so, I think.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I got some feedback from some of my listeners and some people who encouraged me to do this.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's now the point where I'm ready to make a slight adjustment in the focus of the podcast going forward.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my story about being in sales was that I've been in enterprise software, B2B sales now for about 26 years, most of that time carrying a bag and running sales teams.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember when I first had my chance to run a sales team in 2001, I think it was.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened was that I'd come off a great year the year before.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was the top rep top sales rep, top individual contributor in the company.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I was kind of a little bit jaded.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been in selling at that point for seven or eight years, and I felt ready to for a new challenge, is how I was thinking about it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think sales was easy.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: In no way did I believe that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I had a good year on the back of a previous good year as well.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt there was something different I wanted to do.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's a bit of an inflection point.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do I just go up and become a leader, or do I go do something completely different?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened at the time was there was a bit of a shift inside the company.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the the president of the company came to me and said, look, you know, I want you to run the sales team that you're in right now.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Take a step up, take over the existing team, hire some more people, and and really build this out.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that's what I wanted to do, right?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was keen for some some new challenge.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I'd always eyed the idea of being a a leader of a sales team.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I I kind of, you know, I jumped at it.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: What was interesting was that the president said to me, Listen, I want you to do the job, but I want you to know I'm gonna have zero time to help you make the transition, right?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna have to figure out on your own.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there was no real guidance or or training or anything else apart from that, right?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: She just basically said, Look, I don't have time to help you, so I just figure it out.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So despite that, I took the ch this the step, and you know, as you do, you kind of bumble along a little bit, you try and figure things out.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember two or three years later talking to one of the reps that was in the team at the time, and he said, You know, if I look back, I I give you a six and a half out of ten.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was like, Well, that doesn't sound too good.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, you know, think about it, right?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: You you were thrown into that role, no one gave you any training about what to do and how to do it.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there's only so much success you could have had, and therefore I think you did a really good job with the situation that you were in.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I was kind of encouraged by that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, looking back, and what I probably didn't realize at the time was this whole situation of the successful sales rep getting thrown into the new leader role is entirely common.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you do in that situation?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of fall back on what you've seen other people do when you work for them, you kind of match their patterns, and maybe there's some things you really want to copy, and maybe there's some things you've seen that you really hated and you don't want to be that person.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: But this happens again and again.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's three main problems with this whole approach.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: One is, first of all, the overlap in skill set and mindset and approach the role between being a great sales rep and being a great first-line leader, in my estimation, is about 20%.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the mistake people make is they think it's more like 80%, right?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they become the super rep that kind of, you know, I I can help people close deals, I can help people in sales calls with senior people, things like that.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that becomes the sole focus of what they do.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and that's not a terrible thing to do, but it's not the hallmarks, all the hallmarks to becoming a great first line manager.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the overlap between the two roles is not huge.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore the question is, well, how do you know what to do for the the the parts that you you're not doing, and how do you know to do it very, very well?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing about this is that first line manager role is certainly the least rewarding in the sales organization.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've heard a lot of people say this, and I've even said it in the past, is it's the it's the worst job in the sales organization as well, right?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think of you know the the whole hamburger thing, right?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: You you end up being in the middle, you get your reps coming to you with questions and challenges and problems and you know emotional things and logical things and business things, and it all kind of comes up, right?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you become the face of the company, and you have to kind of triage the questions and and help them and get past that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then from up above, there's a whole bunch of stuff that flows down that in some of which you have to go, well, I have to take that to the team, and some of it you have to kind of go, I there's no way I'm taking that to the team because it's gonna have a detrimental impact on their mindset, their motivation, whatever it might be, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you end up being sandwiched.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: You take a smaller paycheck than you did as a hugely successful rep, and you don't get the recognition, right?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's still as the individual rep becomes the hero in these big deals or overperforming, things like that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know, the the sales manager is the one that's just kind of giving the quiet pat in the back on the side.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there's not much overlap between the two jobs, and it's also you're stepping into the job that's probably the worst one or something the least rewarding in the sales organization.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Despite it being the least rewarding, the third problem is it's actually the single most important role, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: The the first line manager's ability to have direct impact on the results of their team is huge.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you're an individual contributor, you have impact on your own results, right?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a huge amount of their your success is down to what you do and how you think, right?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's only just your results, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a second line manager, then you're directing the troops a little bit, you're still involved in forecasts and deals, but not down to the detail level.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And your impact is is wider, but not as deep, let's say, right?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that first line manager just has such an important role, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you can see it in teams when that first line manager is on fire, knowing what they're doing, they're truly leading as opposed to managing.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: That team flourishes, it thrives.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And counter to that, you can see that teams that don't have that person just struggle, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they start quitting, and it becomes toxic, and they're not producing the results, and it gets worse.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that so that that first line manager, their role in the organization is huge in all sorts of different ways.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's three big problems with not training your first line manager, um, not giving them any help, and yet it goes on again and again and again.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, for this podcast, you know, what I've been thinking about is how can I best serve that first line manager that I used to be from back in the day.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I could do an interview type show, I could try and go, you know, deeper, longer form, but I've actually decided to keep the same format as I've had for so long, where it's kind of bite-sized chunks, it's designed to be practical and something that someone can implement or try out the day after, but it is gonna be much more focused on the success of that first line manager.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not to say that you know a lot of the topics aren't gonna be useful for the sales rep or the second line, but that's my main focus.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also, you know, frankly, for that sales rep who has aspirations to step into that second role, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you can take on some of the mindset and skills before that, then you're much ready, much more ready to succeed when you do get the chance to make that that big step up.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is that I'm looking to do is um make this about the whole self of the first line manager.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I look back on what I've been doing up to now, it's been very much kind of skills-based things that you can go do.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to look at the the first line manager as a kind of human being and know that there's lots of things that uh impact their success.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when I look at when I coach individuals, when I coach first line managers right now, we are talking about much wider things than just very tactical, you know, things to say in the next sales call or the next one-on-one, right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Although that's important.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I am looking in this podcast to have a kind of wider leadership impact on it so that someone can can really take in other influences beyond just the day-to-day skills and practical things needed for the role.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that, what I'll say is welcome to version two of uh the bite-sized sales podcast.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: I really hope you enjoy it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: As always, please hit me up at upside at unstoppable.do.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's upside at unstoppable.do.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you got ideas, questions, suggestions, things to improve on, I want to hear them.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So please hit me up as much as you can.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to working with you going forward.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you like this podcast, the most useful thing you could do to support it is share it with just one person.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It will mean the world to me, but more importantly, for that one person, it may well transform how they lead and also their results in the coming quarters and years.
• 11:24
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• 11:26
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• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I need your suggestions, please.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a topic you want me to cover or just want to get in touch, simply email me at upside at unstoppable.do.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's upside at unstoppable.do.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And now to wrap up this episode, training without implementation is just entertainment.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you heard something today that you want to use, take action right now and keep getting better every single day.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, I'm signing off as the great Joe Sexton would by saying, gone to sell.