Latest / Babes, how did you get here / 🔴 LIVE : I PREFER South African Racism | Reaction + Q&A

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🔴 LIVE : I PREFER South African Racism | Reaction + Q&A · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  Hello, hello, it is morning where I am, I'm not sure where it is where you are, but I'm
• 0:16
  trying to do a little check in before my next episode for the podcast goes live.
• 0:23
  So just in case you didn't know, I have a podcast called Life Out Square and it is on YouTube
• 0:29
  Spotify and Apple Podcasts and today's episode is with a really incredible person. Her name
• 0:36
  is Desi Colleen, Roxy, Big of the Self-Babes and she is from Cape Town, she's collared,
• 0:44
  which is relevant to her story. She married a white British person, they met in South Africa,
• 0:53
  and then they moved to UK. She lived in the UK for a few years and I basically caught up with her
• 1:01
  know that she has moved back to Cape Town. So just in case you're not sure what the podcast is about,
• 1:08
  I go around the world and I find interesting people who have moved abroad and in each destination
• 1:15
  I like to find someone who has returned. Maybe it's the Jamaican in me and I appreciate that
• 1:22
  brain drain is a serious problem for a lot of our communities, but I also think that there's
• 1:27
  this stereotype that when you come from a particular country it is like the dream to go to England
• 1:33
  or the dream to go to the US and it is this dream because we don't like where we're from,
• 1:39
  which I don't think is the truth. As someone who is from Jamaica, I've lived in the States,
• 1:44
  I've lived in England, other places and the point is is that just because you wish to see the
• 1:51
  world or you wish to grow and push yourself beyond your comfort zone, it doesn't mean that you
• 1:57
  don't love where you come from or that you don't wish to return. And so in each destination,
• 2:02
  I try and make sure that I find someone who has made that decision to return because I think it
• 2:07
  adds an interesting perspective to all of these discussions. Yes, the hair is fresh bathed and
• 2:14
  it is painful. The lady, she did the braids all the way down to my neck and honestly every time I
• 2:20
  move, I have a hole in my hair down here. I think I have some in the enemy and every time I move,
• 2:25
  it hurts. I'm not sure it was worth it. It also took three hours and 54 minutes, which like it's
• 2:33
  not that deep. Why did it take so long? But anyway, I digress. We're talking about the podcast.
• 2:38
  So I shared a few posts, just a few clips from the conversation with Desnia and I and one of them
• 2:47
  was her discussing racism, racism comparing it in South Africa to being in England.
• 2:54
  Thank you. You know, I always want the skin to be a little bit better, but I'll take the
• 2:58
  compliments. After I'm finished with you, we are actually filming. So I am in our next destination.
• 3:04
  If you guys haven't already joined our WhatsApp group, you need to go to Alive Elsewhere.com.
• 3:10
  You need to put in little details, babes and then you can join the group and then you'd know
• 3:14
  that we are filming a new series. So as soon as I'm finished on this live, I will go straight
• 3:20
  into filming. I'm actually filming with a guy today who is a manager for one of the members of
• 3:27
  Black Eyed Peas. But I'm sure it is your dream to go to the UK. So Desnia was in the UK for a few
• 3:37
  years and she compared South African racism with UK racism and some people didn't really understand
• 3:44
  the point. They were like, why are we comparing racism? All kinds of racism is bad. But ultimately,
• 3:50
  if we're going to discuss our experiences openly and honestly, if we have experienced something
• 3:55
  that we should be able to compare and contrast. And I was really impressed and grateful that Desnia
• 4:01
  was willing to talk about these topics that for some people, it would be deemed too sensitive.
• 4:07
  But she's so confident and she's so sure of herself. And it was really a relief to have someone
• 4:14
  like her on Alive Elsewhere because you could actually have conversations beneath the surface.
• 4:20
  And in the clip that we shared what she was saying was in South Africa, they are more direct
• 4:27
  where she felt that in the UK, people were really beating around the bush when it came to race.
• 4:31
  So they would say things that were more micro aggressions that were a little bit more confusing
• 4:37
  to digest, especially when you're new to a country. And she explained that it had you second guessing
• 4:42
  yourself. And that was something that I could really relate to. She also talks about the fact that
• 4:48
  she grew up in a township. So I'm not sure if you know what a township is in Cape Town.
• 4:54
  But in a nutshell, it's not the best of environments. It can be considered quite rough.
• 5:01
  Some people think that it's dangerous. She said that she didn't grow up feeling like it was
• 5:05
  particularly dangerous. But one thing she did highlight was that there were less opportunities
• 5:09
  for people like her who grew up in these circumstances. In my opinion, Tony, I'm
• 5:14
  bigger myself, baby. In my opinion, it felt like if you grew up in Tivoli, if you're from
• 5:19
  Jamaica and you know, Tivoli, or if you grew up in a garrison, that is what I would compare a
• 5:24
  township to. And one really powerful thing that she said was that she doesn't want anybody's
• 5:28
  pity. She wants people to see her story. And it's not a story of sadness. It's a story of triumph.
• 5:34
  So that was really sweet. She is a hairdresser, I should say. So I actually went to her to do my hair.
• 5:41
  And she did a Botox treatment. I'd never heard of a Botox treatment before. So I said she
• 5:47
  puts this stuff on her hair. Apparently, it's not like a chemical relaxer or a texturizer.
• 5:53
  It comes, if you wash your hair, it comes out in like two months. It will come out in a month.
• 5:58
  This particular treatment, if you wash it with like sulfate, so shampoo, bathed another hair
• 6:04
  person. But she did my hair and it was fabulous. And she was very, very kind. She's very
• 6:10
  talkative, very easy and open to sharing, which was lovely. And I can vote for the treatment. I was
• 6:18
  a little bit skeptical about what she was saying in terms of this hair treatment. But I can
• 6:22
  vote for the treatment. It definitely meant like using my hair a little bit. And it didn't feel
• 6:26
  like it was damaging. But she said that when she got to the UK, she had the challenge of being
• 6:33
  taken seriously. I'm not sure if you've seen any pictures of her. I posted a few things, but
• 6:39
  she's a very petite lady. And she said that when she got to the UK, she felt that people
• 6:45
  did not think that she was qualified in the way that she was. And they presumed that because she
• 6:50
  was coming from South Africa, she wouldn't be able to do their hair as professionally as an
• 6:55
  English person. So she essentially had to fight for her position to be respected.
• 7:01
  And she's a fighter. You can tell that from her energy. She's a fighter. And she probably does get
• 7:07
  that from growing up in Cape Town. I'd be interested to know if anybody's been to Cape Town,
• 7:12
  if you've experienced South Africa, this time we were there in January. And it was our second time
• 7:19
  in South Africa. For me, South Africa is, and again, I probably shouldn't say South Africa,
• 7:25
  because it's a very big country. But Cape Town for us is a really, really cool destination.
• 7:30
  Baby girl, big of yourself. I hope you're not sneaking in from any meetings or work today.
• 7:35
  But Cape Town is a great destination from a tourist perspective. It is beautiful. The landscape
• 7:41
  is gorgeous. You've been there and you love it because we sell from Zambia babes. The landscape
• 7:46
  is gorgeous. You have these beautiful, beautiful beaches. You have mountains. You just have
• 7:52
  everything to look at. One thing I will say though, that water is cold. It is very cold.
• 7:58
  Burning, thank you very much, my darling. And so whilst it's beautiful to look at, we do not go in
• 8:04
  the water. And then yesterday, you are here, so you want to hear about the place.
• 8:10
  HR boutique, honestly, it's worth visiting. Yesterday I was speaking to someone from Australia,
• 8:16
  and he was just telling me about the sharks in the water in South Africa. I was like, you don't
• 8:21
  need to tell me twice babes. I wasn't going in the water because it was cold, and I'm definitely
• 8:24
  not going in the water for the sharks. But it is a beautiful place to visit. Also, you have the
• 8:29
  vineyards. I don't know if you're into wine, but babes. The wine. It is definitely worth visiting
• 8:35
  just for the wine. And what I love, we stay in an area called Selambosh, which is just a little bit
• 8:40
  outside of Cape Town city, probably about an hour and a half to drive to. And you get amazing food,
• 8:48
  like amazing Michelin star quality kind of food, but it is super affordable. And they are very
• 8:54
  generous with their pores in Cape Town. You will never be thirsty, do you know? And it's just
• 9:01
  really nice hospitality. When we go, January is their summer. So as we move into May, it's going
• 9:07
  to start to get to their winter. And I was like, is winter real? Or is it just that long sleeve,
• 9:12
  instead of short sleeve? And people who live there were telling me that it's a real winter,
• 9:16
  you need coats, you need boots, that you need layers. I was like, oh, really? Which makes
• 9:21
  sense if you think geographically, but I don't know, because I've always been there when it's warm.
• 9:25
  Louisa says it's very real. The winter is very real, but I've always been there when it's warm.
• 9:33
  And so for me, I think of it as summer. Ramona, big of yourself, baby. It gets cold and breezy.
• 9:39
  I'm a shark. I will only get my toes in to give you enough time to run. Babes, I didn't even
• 9:44
  dip my toes in because it was too cold. But you get great quality wine, you get great quality food.
• 9:50
  And on this particular trip, we discovered Cape Malay cuisine, which is a blend of Malaysian,
• 9:57
  Indonesian, Indian food from... I cannot remember exactly which year, but basically
• 10:04
  indentured label came over and created this Cape Malay cuisine. And what was really interesting
• 10:11
  is that in Salambosch, the food is very Eurocentric. So they use local ingredients, but you could be
• 10:16
  at any restaurant in Europe, whereas Cape Malay was really, really flavorful. We're talking
• 10:22
  rotis, like you're in Malaysia, we're talking coris, we're talking spices, real depth of flavor.
• 10:29
  And that was very exciting for us to discover on this trip. How are my girls? Babes are doing
• 10:34
  very, very well. And again, in terms of children and travel, Cape Ton is a great destination,
• 10:40
  just for the animals alone. I've shared a lot about the safari that we went to this year. It was
• 10:45
  botly a scop and it was just ridiculous experience to see the big five. And to honest with you,
• 10:51
  that's the part that I also love about doing the podcast. Of course, you have these great
• 10:56
  conversations with people like Desmy who you're going to hear from, but we also get an opportunity
• 11:02
  to discover a country or a new destination. And it's really interesting to see how people who
• 11:09
  choose different destinations to live. They have such different characters and therefore they
• 11:13
  have made those decisions based on what aligns with them. For Cape Ton, it was really interesting
• 11:20
  because it seems like a lot of Americans are choosing Cape Ton as a destination. A lot of them
• 11:26
  feel that they wanted to be on the motherland. However, I would argue that they have chosen
• 11:33
  the most European African country. I haven't been across the continent. I have a lot to explore,
• 11:41
  but there are so many parts of Cape Ton that you feel like you're in Europe. And I wonder if
• 11:46
  that's why they made the decision. Which again, hi John, it is me. But again, I think it's really
• 11:56
  interesting because people want to be connected with their heritage, so to speak, from an American
• 12:02
  perspective, African-American perspective. But they chose Cape Ton, which I'm not sure is
• 12:12
  the destination you would choose to truly connect if that makes sense. Especially because if
• 12:16
  we're talking about connecting with heritage, we can all do DNA tests nowadays. And it would be
• 12:21
  interesting to see where these people are from versus where they've chosen to reside. But the point
• 12:26
  is that being in Cape Ton, if there are stereotypes that you hold, both the African continent,
• 12:33
  I would really encourage you to explore the continent because I think that you will gain so much
• 12:39
  and lose some of that ignorance. And when I say ignorance, it's not to be derogative,
• 12:42
  it's just ignorance is the act of not knowing. And I think that until you get there and you see
• 12:48
  these things and you see these experiences for yourself, you will always be in a state of ignorance
• 12:53
  because you wouldn't have had that awakening, if you will. My online is the Melissa Buego
• 13:00
  herself, South Africa is appealing for people from Western countries, assistants and institutions
• 13:05
  stayed after apartheid, 100%. And again, to talk about a little touch on apartheid is,
• 13:12
  although yes, by law things aren't allowed, what you do definitely see and feel is the remnants
• 13:22
  of that in the air. And that shouldn't be surprising because it wasn't that long ago. I think
• 13:26
  sometimes we hear about things and we put them in a historical context as though they were so long
• 13:31
  ago and they weren't like one of the conversations I was honored to have was with a British actor.
• 13:38
  He was in Hotel Rwanda, he now lives in Cape Ton and he was the first black man in an ad
• 13:46
  as in a public ad post apartheid. And again, that was really interesting to hear his perspective.
• 13:53
  Does mean the conversation that you will see in a few minutes, she speaks very openly about
• 13:59
  the fact that just because you went through apartheid, you should not have this hatred in your heart
• 14:05
  because that could make you miss out. So you very clear about
• 14:16
  the fact that you shouldn't walk around with hate in your heart because you could be missing
• 14:20
  old opportunity to meet people, to love people, to really connect. And she uses her story as an
• 14:26
  example because she met her husband who is from the UK and a white man who treats it to her like
• 14:32
  a princess. And she's like, imagine if she was going around jaded, so to speak, then she would
• 14:38
  have missed out on the love of her life, which I think is a beautiful way to still acknowledge the
• 14:44
  past, but appreciate that she has been able to see people for the individuals that they are,
• 14:50
  rather than use her experience to completely judge someone before, which I think is something
• 14:56
  that we can all learn from, to be honest with you. But one thing I will say is we shouldn't be
• 15:00
  disingenuous about race relations in South Africa. There is definitely something going on. I've
• 15:05
  seen people say that there is no such thing as racism in South Africa because it's outlawed.
• 15:10
  Respectfully, just because something is against the law that doesn't change people's heart or
• 15:15
  their character. And what I noticed, like, it's the only place that I have been to where people
• 15:22
  keep asking me if my children are mine. And I thought that that was a bit weird. It's the only place
• 15:26
  that I've been to where, again, in Salem Bosch, whilst I like it then, you have people who are working
• 15:32
  who are staring at me with an air of why are you there? And then you have other white people
• 15:39
  who are also staring at me like why are you here but not working perhaps? I'm not sure exactly
• 15:43
  what they're thinking, but there's definitely something going on that you can kind of feel
• 15:49
  in the air. There's a residual energy that, to be honest with you, I couldn't live there.
• 15:54
  I couldn't live there because of that. However, it's beautiful for a trip. It's lovely to see,
• 16:00
  as I said, the animals to eat the food, to see the vibes to feel the good weather. It's a lovely
• 16:06
  place, but I don't think it's somewhere that I could live. Again, because I'm coming from a
• 16:10
  Jamaican perspective. I think where you start with your perspective obviously shapes what you see
• 16:16
  and how you experience things, but it also decides what standards you can accept and what is
• 16:23
  going to be your non-negotiable. And for me, even when you see people out, no one's mixing
• 16:30
  in South Africa. I don't know if people would disagree, but you know, everyone's kind of in
• 16:36
  their groups and they're all saying, and I said this before about the UK, but I don't consider,
• 16:42
  for example, London very multicultural because people just stay in their little enclaves.
• 16:46
  For me being multicultural means that you truly come together and there's a sense of oneness.
• 16:53
  I feel like in South Africa, I'm told that around sport, around rugby, there are great sports
• 17:00
  people in South Africa, and that's apparently when the society all comes together. But on a day
• 17:06
  today, there's definitely a divisive vibe. I'm not sure if it's intentional or just naturally
• 17:13
  lived in, but again, Destiny has a little bit of a different perception where that's concerned,
• 17:19
  so it might be interesting to hear from her what she thinks. But she ultimately chose to come
• 17:25
  back to Cape Town because of her mental health, which again, I think that it was really interesting
• 17:36
  to see that she was able to speak about something so openly and also just to acknowledge that
• 17:43
  sometimes we can have an idea of what it's going to be like in our country and
• 17:47
  but have the strength to say actually, I thought it was going to be XYZ, it's not XYZ,
• 17:54
  and for that reason I'm going to piece out. I also think that the stories about people who have
• 18:00
  returned to their home country are really interesting because not only do they have a different
• 18:04
  perspective in terms of not constantly saying that everywhere else is better, like everything
• 18:10
  foreign is good, it's also proof that you have nothing to fear if you want to live somewhere else
• 18:16
  because home will always be there. I know some people think about moving abroad and there's
• 18:23
  a lot of anxiety, there's a lot of layers of trepidation and people aren't sure what to expect
• 18:31
  and with all of these conversations, you really get the sense that you might as well try,
• 18:38
  that you only live once, you might as well go see what's out there, experience it, and if it's not
• 18:43
  for you, but if you just go back, and I really appreciated that for her returning to South Africa,
• 18:50
  she did not have any sense of guilt, embarrassment, regret, and she seemed to really accept that
• 18:57
  going to England was good for that time, it was the right decision, but also she knew within
• 19:04
  herself when it was time to pack up and be like, oh, I'm going back home now. I'm not Afrocentric at all,
• 19:11
  I will never forgive Africa for allowing five European nations to march into Africa and conquer
• 19:18
  its people and whoo, babes, that's deep, and dehumanize them up to say, I feel you, but it does
• 19:28
  feel like we are oversimplifying a few things and granted a TikTok live where an episode is about
• 19:34
  to go in 11 minutes, I'm not sure is the best platform to discuss such heavy material in my
• 19:42
  darling, and when you say not forgive, what I'm really interested to know what not forgiving looks
• 19:48
  like for you, does that mean not visiting, does that mean not supporting from a distance, what
• 19:54
  does not forgiving mean? And it's a safe space, it's fine, we can, you know, I'm the queen of,
• 19:59
  I love to agree to disagree, but I'm really interested, I know that there's limitations with
• 20:03
  how much you can type, but I'd love to know what that means for you. Just coming over on this side,
• 20:11
  thank you Ramona here is nice, what it tight, it tight bids, and it take too long. I don't think I'll
• 20:15
  be doing my hair again for the rest of the year, you get your hair redone, it looks mean, yeah,
• 20:20
  I had to redo it, but I think this is the last time, and Linda, because of my darling Slade by Ali,
• 20:24
  thank you very much. Have you visited anywhere else in Africa yet? So not this year, but in the past,
• 20:31
  I have been to Morocco, although I always say that Morocco does not count as Africa, because in my
• 20:37
  experience, Moroccans do not think that they're African, and they clearly have issues with the way
• 20:41
  that they perceive black people. When I was in Morocco, I happened to be with a white person at the time,
• 20:47
  and they kept asking him how many, how many camels for your chocolate? And I was like, these camels
• 20:54
  basically very, very expensive, because why are we asking how much I can be bought for?
• 21:01
  So yeah, so I don't consider Morocco as a part of that experience, but I would definitely like to
• 21:06
  explore other African countries. I don't care about Africa, like others, maybe that's very
• 21:12
  genetic, when you say like others are, what does that mean? You're saying lots of words, but they're not
• 21:17
  very personal or descriptive. Thank you very much Anindo. They want all the Western comforts put
• 21:26
  on the continent, and that is how I feel about South Africa. I do, and I'm fine with that by the way,
• 21:32
  I'm fine with people wanting the Western comforts on the continent, but I'm not sure people are
• 21:37
  being as honest about that as they should, right? There in a lot of these conversations, it seems
• 21:43
  to be very focused on, I wanted to be on the continent, I wanted to be on the continent, which
• 21:46
  is great, but I'm not sure everybody is being honest enough about why they chose Cape Town.
• 21:54
  Krishmar, how are you, my darling? Kamoya, thank you very much. Others, okay, I understand, so you
• 22:01
  don't feel connected to the continent in the way that you think that other black people in the
• 22:08
  diaspora are. I get it now, I'm very sorry if I wasn't trying to be obtuse, I promise, I just
• 22:15
  didn't want to put words or meaning that wasn't there, if that made sense. You love South Africa,
• 22:20
  but you did not feel as connected as I did in West Africa. You're a Jamaican, big of yourself,
• 22:24
  so I would love to explore West Africa, as I'm sure many of you know, that is where a lot of us
• 22:30
  are from. I've done my DNA testing, and it is no surprise that I'm from Nigeria, so I would definitely
• 22:37
  like to explore that, and when I see Nigerians, I laugh because I can just see so many similarities
• 22:45
  with Jamaican energy and Nigerian energy. You're essentially contentious towards Africa, okay,
• 22:51
  that's fair, I mean, I'd really encourage you to explore it more, but I can respect the vibe.
• 23:01
  Hey April, how was it when you were featured on The Apprentice?
• 23:05
  So I left the UK, and again, that's really interesting about the reason that we move, right,
• 23:10
  we move for different reasons. I left the UK, I left Jamaica 10 years ago to be on The Apprentice
• 23:17
  in the UK, and that was because I knew I wanted to open up restaurants, and I knew that I wanted
• 23:25
  to be on television, essentially, and I felt that that was my in. And again, speaking to why we move
• 23:34
  and having seasons, I decided to shut up shop in December 2024, and I've been traveling with my
• 23:42
  children since. But what I think is really interesting is that it seems that a lot of people are
• 23:47
  thinking about moving abroad, no more than ever, I think it has to do with social media. It also
• 23:52
  has to do with the fact that the world feels like it's rapidly changing, rapidly changing at the
• 23:58
  minute. And people are realizing that, you know, back in the day, we were born somewhere, we died
• 24:03
  on that same street, our family all lived in the same look of village, and nobody really went
• 24:09
  anywhere. And I actually think that there are a lot of advantages to that type of living in terms
• 24:14
  of, you know, family as the centre. But I also appreciate that no, we live in a world where you
• 24:20
  can essentially just book it ticket, you get to go places, you get to see things, and you get to
• 24:25
  really learn a different version of yourself. So my time on the apprentice was great for my business,
• 24:30
  I opened my first restaurant the last day, sorry, the day before my last episode on that show,
• 24:38
  and it was incredible press. I wouldn't have been able to get bombs on seats as quickly as I did.
• 24:46
  And whilst I'm truly grateful for the experience, because apparently I'd always spoken about it when
• 24:50
  I was in high school, the experience wasn't exactly what I was expecting, but I don't regret anything
• 24:56
  about it. So you said, is racism coming from both sides? So this thing about, you know, racism and
• 25:05
  prejudice is a very different thing, you know, and so I think you're asking if there's prejudice
• 25:09
  coming from both sides. And I'm not sure, I haven't spoken to enough people to really understand
• 25:16
  if there is resentment. I don't feel like I'm an expert or I've gathered enough data
• 25:23
  to share whether I think it's coming from both sides, but I think that, you know, in Cape Town,
• 25:30
  there's a huge problem with youth unemployment, and I think that those types of things,
• 25:36
  the systematic things are never going to help a society truly unite. And I think that's
• 25:43
  that's what people need to realise. I don't think that a young black boy in Cape Town in a
• 25:49
  township, if we're talking about racism as a systematic evil, I don't think they're capable
• 25:56
  of being racist in that way, if that makes sense. The racism is from one side, Flora says,
• 26:01
  the racism is from one side. And you're a Jamaica and John. John, do you think that you see John,
• 26:12
  I really could get into your distaste, the correct word, do you think, babe? Because I do think
• 26:20
  that it's strange in the sense that the new wave of really connecting with African countries
• 26:28
  feels that it is filling a void for some people. So some people who might feel lost or who might
• 26:35
  feel that they need to be more in touch with their heritage in order to understand their place in
• 26:39
  the world now. And so I wonder if you think that being Jamaica influences the fact that you
• 26:46
  don't feel that you have a void to feel. And I wonder if you think that if you came from somewhere
• 26:50
  else that perhaps was less, let's say in your face, when it came to pride, to put it madly,
• 26:57
  I wonder if that would change your relationship with the continent. These braids, thank you, babe,
• 27:02
  they're hurting. As I say, beauty knows no pain. Honestly, how are you, my darling? Oh, where
• 27:09
  are we going? Hi, Damian, I hope you are doing well. You have worked with Colombia, with the
• 27:16
  Colombian for over five years as a cook. I'm not sure, are you living in Colombia? What do you
• 27:23
  know about the Irish and Jamaican connection? You know what is really funny? I smiled because I
• 27:28
  went to Ireland and they said that I had picked up Irish very quickly. And I said, what are you
• 27:33
  talking about? And they said, because I say tree, I said, that's not because of the Irish. And then
• 27:38
  a next man told me that Gansi, so I don't know, for those of you that aren't Jamaican,
• 27:43
  when he said Gansi is like a shirt. And that was also Irish. And embarrassingly,
• 27:49
  up until I was probably late teens, I genuinely thought that Guinness was Jamaican.
• 27:54
  I just, because it's so in our culture, only to then do a little bit more research as you're
• 28:00
  asking and really understand that, you know, it was a lot of the Irish indentured labourers who
• 28:08
  taught us English in Jamaica, which again influenced our dialect. And that is the beautiful thing
• 28:14
  about paddle or language in general, is that the stories that they tell. But also there was a lot of,
• 28:20
  so you obviously have Irish indentured labourers, but you also have the Irish who were mean and
• 28:26
  awful on the plantations. So, you know, no one, I don't know if anyone's hands are truly clean
• 28:32
  in history, but I do always get on with Irish people as in nowadays, modern day. I'm not
• 28:39
  talking about ancestral Irish people. Talk about no. And there is definitely a connection even with
• 28:44
  humour and energy. And, you know, when you went to the UK, the Windrush generation, when they went
• 28:50
  to the UK back in the day, and there were everybody knows about the science, right? They know,
• 28:55
  no, no, blacks, no Irish, no dogs. And so, I think being from an outsider's perspective a lot of times
• 29:02
  when you're exiled, so to speak, out of society, or look down upon, you are likely to come together.
• 29:08
  So, I hope in a nutshell, that answers your question about the Irish Jamaican connection
• 29:13
  in exactly 40 seconds. Our episode goes live on YouTube, and I'm talking with Desmy Collieum,
• 29:21
  who is Collie, sorry, not Collie, it's not French, but sometimes I think of things and I'm not
• 29:27
  French, but Collieum. And she is a hairdresser who is from a township in Cape Town moved to the UK
• 29:38
  to be with her husband, and then they decided to return to Cape Town. I hope that you love this
• 29:44
  episode. She's really open, honest, and it was a pleasure to be able to speak with her and share
• 29:49
  her story with you. So, head over, watch the episode live, subscribe if you haven't already,
• 29:54
  go to alifeeltswear.com and join our WhatsApp group so that you can start to really shape each
• 30:00
  conversation. I hope you have an amazing night, and if you're a days just starting, I hope you
• 30:03
  have an amazing day, and big up yourself, and thank you for joining me.