Latest / The Curve / Buy, Renovate, Sell: How to 'Flip' a property with Alex Harper.

Transcript

Buy, Renovate, Sell: How to 'Flip' a property with Alex Harper. · The Curve

• 0:00
  So the way that I would analyse a property, number one why are they selling? Is location a big one?
• 0:09
  A massive one. The most important thing is buying well and that's how you're going to make money.
• 0:14
  I would always go for properties that have really good bonds.
• 0:17
  I think one of the biggest misconceptions in this industry is renovation equals more money.
• 0:24
  I'd never move any plumbing. You might think it's adding value, but it's going to cost you a lot more in time and in money.
• 0:30
  Have you found anything weird? Yeah, I'm good.
• 0:33
  What?
• 0:35
  I don't want to know this, but do you have any advice for people who are maybe wanting to get started?
• 0:41
  But aren't starting from a big base? Definitely.
• 0:46
  Gosh, we are very proud to be partnering with TradeMe for this property mini series.
• 0:51
  So for anyone that has followed the curve for a little while, I have spoken about my property buying journey quite a bit to the point where people are like, what is happening?
• 1:00
  What is taking so long?
• 1:02
  We are doing a three part podcast mini series in partnership with TradeMe property.
• 1:07
  And whilst I'm not quite there yet on the actual purchase part, which we will get to for the rest of this episode,
• 1:13
  what I have been doing in the meantime is dream scrolling and dream scrolling,
• 1:17
  being looking through all of the amazing properties that are available on TradeMe property.
• 1:22
  Because there are more properties there than there are anywhere else.
• 1:25
  And so this has been quite exciting for me.
• 1:28
  You know, I've been looking at, I mean, let's be honest, things are quite out of my budget right now.
• 1:33
  But to see what's available from like seaside escapes, which you know, one day I'll get there,
• 1:39
  to like amazing properties that are available in the CBD or centers of towns in New Zealand.
• 1:45
  It really is the best place to see absolutely all of my potential options.
• 1:50
  So if you are in a position where you're thinking, do you know what?
• 1:54
  I'd love to buy property or I'm interested in what's happening in the property market.
• 1:58
  And I want to know what things are going for them.
• 2:00
  TradeMe is the place to look.
• 2:02
  So thank you so much to TradeMe property for empowering this conversation.
• 2:05
  And why not open endless doors with TradeMe property?
• 2:09
  You can download the app on iOS or jump on your web browser,
• 2:13
  have a good old dream scroll.
• 2:15
  And if you see any good ones, please flick them my way.
• 2:17
  This is very exciting because we've got someone on the podcast who we actually had at our very first event.
• 2:24
  I know.
• 2:25
  Back in our days when we were babies.
• 2:27
  I look back at those events and I die.
• 2:31
  Just how stiff I was, how gross the presentations were.
• 2:37
  Just everything around.
• 2:38
  It's quite funny because I remember I'd get to the end of the event.
• 2:41
  And I'd be like, I didn't really understand anything.
• 2:44
  I didn't really learn anything.
• 2:45
  But I just thought it was because I had shit attention span.
• 2:48
  And now I'm like, no, you really do have to speak to someone that knows nothing about investing in a different way.
• 2:53
  Oh, just you anyway.
• 2:54
  Could you give us, sorry.
• 2:55
  So Alex is sitting next to us and actually probably could give us some feedback on how those events were.
• 3:01
  I thought they were great.
• 3:02
  But did you actually?
• 3:03
  No, I did.
• 3:04
  A hundred percent.
• 3:05
  Which I was very enthusiastic at the time.
• 3:07
  But I thought I was like number one fan.
• 3:09
  Yeah.
• 3:10
  Excuse me.
• 3:11
  Excuse me.
• 3:12
  I had a question.
• 3:13
  Teacher.
• 3:14
  Are you cheering me your sister as well?
• 3:15
  She was like, excuse me.
• 3:16
  And I feel like you guys always had a note pad with you.
• 3:19
  You were always taking notes.
• 3:20
  Oh, yeah.
• 3:21
  I was differently like, which kind of scary ones.
• 3:23
  The scary ones.
• 3:24
  People are noting down about you talking.
• 3:25
  You're like, oh gosh.
• 3:26
  You know what you're talking about.
• 3:27
  No, I know what you're like.
• 3:28
  I think you guys are nailing it.
• 3:30
  It's amazing.
• 3:31
  Yeah.
• 3:32
  We do need to actually not be so critical.
• 3:34
  Okay, this is so off topic.
• 3:35
  Sorry.
• 3:36
  So off topic.
• 3:37
  So the reason we got Alex on is because, actually, do you know what?
• 3:39
  I was visiting a friend.
• 3:40
  Sorry.
• 3:41
  Then I got off.
• 3:42
  I was visiting a friend last week in Hawkes Bay.
• 3:47
  I do follow you on Instagram on your site.
• 3:51
  I mean, I have the handy honey.
• 3:53
  I'm a follower.
• 3:54
  But you know how the algorithm seems to hide stuff from you.
• 3:57
  If you don't interact with it.
• 3:58
  I must have been a bit rude and not liked a few posts.
• 4:01
  I just hadn't seen anything in a while.
• 4:03
  And I felt like, have you seen what Alex is doing?
• 4:06
  And I was like, oh my gosh.
• 4:07
  We're about to do a property mini series.
• 4:09
  She would be a perfect person to speak to.
• 4:11
  Because what you're doing is amazing.
• 4:13
  And so unique.
• 4:14
  And there's hardly anyone I know doing it.
• 4:16
  I don't know anyone else.
• 4:17
  No, when I saw your name in the prep sheet.
• 4:19
  And I was like, oh, great idea.
• 4:21
  Why don't we not simply do this early?
• 4:23
  I know.
• 4:24
  It's such a great idea.
• 4:25
  Because we were in London together for a few months.
• 4:27
  And then you returned back to New Zealand.
• 4:29
  And then you started.
• 4:30
  Was it your first renovation?
• 4:31
  Yeah.
• 4:32
  That was the first flip.
• 4:33
  Yeah.
• 4:34
  Flip.
• 4:35
  I love it.
• 4:36
  So it sounds so fun.
• 4:37
  Yeah.
• 4:38
  So American.
• 4:39
  We just flip it.
• 4:40
  You know, we're out there like TV programs.
• 4:42
  And they had to flip it.
• 4:43
  I don't know.
• 4:44
  It is very American.
• 4:45
  When you see before, there's not really anyone like that.
• 4:47
  There are so many in the States.
• 4:49
  Frills and drills is one of them.
• 4:51
  And she is a mother of two.
• 4:54
  And she is so handy.
• 4:56
  So she's just like renovating lots of things in a house,
• 4:59
  doing upper garage, always making costumes for her kids.
• 5:02
  But when I say costumes, like, they're massive masterpieces.
• 5:05
  Oh.
• 5:06
  So there's a lot of overseas, but I agree.
• 5:09
  There was nothing here.
• 5:10
  And there was no girls doing it either.
• 5:12
  Like, you see lots of guys making things or posting about it.
• 5:16
  But I could, I could never find a girl that I know
• 5:19
  taking up a power tool.
• 5:21
  I just weren't.
• 5:22
  I don't know what it is.
• 5:23
  I think no one's ever taken the time to teach me.
• 5:26
  And I've never taken the time to ask someone to show me.
• 5:29
  Just like a machine.
• 5:30
  Yeah.
• 5:31
  Yeah.
• 5:32
  Yeah.
• 5:33
  Well, it's, it's meant to be a guy's thing.
• 5:34
  Yeah.
• 5:35
  Yeah.
• 5:36
  Yeah.
• 5:37
  Power tools.
• 5:38
  You immediately think of males.
• 5:39
  Also, it is the name like power tools.
• 5:41
  Oh.
• 5:42
  So where did the idea come from?
• 5:46
  Can we hear about your journey into property?
• 5:48
  Because you've done quite a bit of work in this space
• 5:51
  beyond handy, honey.
• 5:52
  Yes.
• 5:53
  So I'll start at the very beginning.
• 5:54
  I went to Dunedin after school and I studied a Bachelor of Arts
• 5:58
  and a Bachelor of Commerce.
• 5:59
  No idea what I wanted to do was like, let's just go
• 6:02
  for the broadest possible thing that we can study.
• 6:04
  Like we will do.
• 6:05
  Yeah.
• 6:06
  And then I worked in advertising for a couple of years
• 6:08
  and then soon realised advertising was not for me.
• 6:12
  I'd already looked at the property industry and thought
• 6:15
  that there was something I would really like to do.
• 6:17
  So I started working for a company called Conrad Properties
• 6:21
  which are one of the largest developers in the country.
• 6:24
  So I started there as like a sales administration manager.
• 6:29
  And by the time I left five years later,
• 6:31
  I was the head of operations.
• 6:32
  So it's kind of a funny title.
• 6:34
  But essentially what I was doing was helping the directors
• 6:38
  with anything technical.
• 6:40
  So I did lots of the legal correspondence between our solicitors
• 6:45
  and the purchases solicitors.
• 6:47
  I managed the agents, did all the sale and purchase agreements,
• 6:50
  managed a lot of the day-to-day sort of admin
• 6:53
  around literally building things as well
• 6:56
  and just managing a few other parts of the business.
• 6:59
  Is this Conrad situation a devout?
• 7:01
  Yes.
• 7:02
  So they sell everything off the plan.
• 7:04
  So they mainly do apartments,
• 7:06
  but they do have some industrial developments as well.
• 7:09
  So that's like having showrooms around you go
• 7:11
  and you buy off the plans and then take a few years
• 7:13
  to build it and then you've got your house, yeah.
• 7:15
  Yeah.
• 7:16
  So you must have learnt a shit-a-ton.
• 7:19
  A shit-a-ton.
• 7:20
  I was so lucky the directors that were used to joke
• 7:23
  they were like my work dads, they were amazing.
• 7:25
  And they had so much time for me and they just taught me so much.
• 7:30
  And we've just got along really well.
• 7:31
  I really think that's the key in getting ahead in your career
• 7:34
  when you're younger is finding people that you resonate with
• 7:38
  or like as people.
• 7:39
  And then you gel with as well.
• 7:41
  That you have fun with and who invest time in you
• 7:44
  to teach you what they know,
• 7:46
  because they've probably been around a few,
• 7:49
  you know, like around what's the word?
• 7:51
  And looking for all around the block or like,
• 7:53
  they've done their time in the industry,
• 7:55
  so they know their stuff.
• 7:56
  I did that when I first got into media.
• 7:58
  I would like do little, not apprentice ships,
• 8:01
  but like internships.
• 8:02
  I'd like for free for people that I knew were amazing
• 8:04
  at what they did just to absorb,
• 8:06
  because it's the quickest way to catapult your learning
• 8:10
  in a particular space.
• 8:11
  From there, then where did you go?
• 8:13
  So then I sort of got a little bit burnt out.
• 8:16
  So it was just a lot.
• 8:18
  And I kind of got to a point in my life where my husband,
• 8:21
  now husband and I were where we said we wanted to have kids soon.
• 8:24
  I hadn't done a whole lot of travel.
• 8:26
  I had finished uni and I had just worked.
• 8:28
  So I was like, either way,
• 8:30
  I need to quit to find out what I want to do,
• 8:33
  but also just have some time to myself before we had kids.
• 8:36
  So that was when I decided I was going to go to London
• 8:39
  and do an interior design course.
• 8:41
  Yes.
• 8:42
  Which is hello.
• 8:43
  Hello, it's really into the conversation.
• 8:45
  Yeah.
• 8:46
  We were all in London together.
• 8:48
  Yeah.
• 8:49
  So that was sort of just made a lot of sense
• 8:51
  because I wanted to travel,
• 8:53
  but I also wanted to do something really productive with my time.
• 8:56
  And it was actually my husband's idea.
• 8:58
  He said, why don't you go to London do this interior design course?
• 9:02
  Because it brings together so many different things.
• 9:04
  Like you already have the skills and property
• 9:06
  where as a team would like to have skills and interior design.
• 9:10
  It also is just like a fun thing to go and do.
• 9:12
  So I was like, right.
• 9:13
  It kind of also completes the picture as well.
• 9:15
  Like you had the developer kind of skillset or knowledge.
• 9:18
  And in the interior side.
• 9:20
  So then it's kind of makes sense then kind of going and doing your own thing.
• 9:23
  When you've got it.
• 9:24
  Yeah.
• 9:25
  And you've got a very skill set.
• 9:26
  I didn't know at the time when I went to London.
• 9:28
  I didn't think that I would come back
• 9:30
  and do my own sort of flips and renovations on my own.
• 9:34
  But yeah, I came back from London
• 9:36
  and was in a little bit of in between sort of limbo.
• 9:40
  And I was like, what am I going to do?
• 9:42
  And then thought, you know, I have all the skills.
• 9:45
  I especially with like the legal side of things.
• 9:48
  That was a really big part of not being so scared about doing it myself.
• 9:53
  That's such a good point actually.
• 9:55
  Because I think that it's the contract.
• 9:58
  It's the paperwork.
• 9:59
  It's the adultness of the situation.
• 10:02
  Yeah, it can be really intimidating.
• 10:03
  And that was not intimidating to me at all.
• 10:06
  And then especially with the interior design.
• 10:09
  We had just learnt how to build everything in CAD.
• 10:11
  So when it came to looking at little apartments,
• 10:14
  which is what I sort of specialise in.
• 10:16
  It was so achievable.
• 10:17
  And I thought, this will be really fun.
• 10:20
  Like especially about to have children.
• 10:23
  It just made a lot of sense because it is a project based job.
• 10:29
  Once a renovation is done and you've sold it, you're done.
• 10:32
  You're onto the next one.
• 10:34
  But you could take a break if you wanted to in between.
• 10:37
  I quite like that.
• 10:38
  I think actually something we've spoken a lot about.
• 10:40
  Because for us, it's like sort of consistently busy.
• 10:42
  And I think that that's quite common in a startup, you know.
• 10:46
  Like it's always hustle.
• 10:47
  In some roles, you kind of get that urban flow of like intense work.
• 10:53
  And then you can kind of like chill for a few weeks.
• 10:55
  And you've got a campaign starting.
• 10:57
  I really like the idea of kind of going hard.
• 11:00
  And then just like taking your shoes off for a bit.
• 11:03
  I think it's quite cool.
• 11:05
  And also to have like a completion of like, I did a thing.
• 11:08
  This is my halt.
• 11:09
  This is all the work I've done.
• 11:10
  And I've completed it.
• 11:11
  And I can kind of like wash my hands and walk away.
• 11:13
  And that is the most satisfying job.
• 11:15
  Because you do all this planning.
• 11:17
  You see it go from absolute disaster.
• 11:20
  And then hopefully ends up looking amazing.
• 11:23
  But it's all you, you know, like that is my favourite part of the job.
• 11:27
  Because it is so satisfying.
• 11:29
  And you can literally see the progress.
• 11:30
  Do you know?
• 11:31
  Like you're painting a wall.
• 11:32
  You've done the wall.
• 11:33
  You've pulled out the bench top.
• 11:34
  You can literally see progress.
• 11:36
  Whereas sometimes.
• 11:38
  And probably a lot of people's jobs are saying you're either a cog in the wheel
• 11:42
  and you don't actually see that progress being made.
• 11:44
  I would say that the one massive corn though is you see the progress.
• 11:49
  But it's not monetary.
• 11:51
  So you have to really change your mindset from being in a salary roll
• 11:55
  where you get money in every week to going to doing a project-based work.
• 12:00
  You might get paid twice a year.
• 12:03
  So you have to be so open to that being the case.
• 12:08
  But also happy to be working day in and day out for nothing.
• 12:12
  That is for like nothing essentially.
• 12:14
  And have a plan in place.
• 12:16
  Because if you then just got this big look of money and you're like,
• 12:19
  Woo!
• 12:20
  And then you're like,
• 12:21
  Oh, shit, I've got nothing for that.
• 12:22
  That's because last two or three times.
• 12:24
  Yeah.
• 12:25
  I never thought about that.
• 12:26
  You're not being paid.
• 12:27
  Neural.
• 12:28
  It's quite weird to think about.
• 12:30
  And I guess you probably would need to be in a dynamic where the other person has a stable income, right?
• 12:36
  Which we're not.
• 12:37
  My husband works.
• 12:39
  Yes, I do.
• 12:40
  I do it 100%.
• 12:42
  Where I was for years, obviously, at Conrad,
• 12:46
  I was the stable, salary person while my husband was starting his own property development company.
• 12:53
  So going from having that to suddenly not, and both of us suddenly not, is definitely,
• 13:01
  you make sure that you plan so that it's not an issue.
• 13:04
  It's really more of a mental thing for me at least.
• 13:07
  It was very mental.
• 13:08
  What were some of the things that you had to adjust or like change your life style?
• 13:12
  When you realised that, yeah, you couldn't really plan week to week,
• 13:16
  or you knew exactly what you had and there was no wiggle room
• 13:19
  because you knew that it might not be something coming in for six months.
• 13:22
  Yeah, I think there were definitely things that you have to change a little bit,
• 13:27
  like planning when you're going to go on holiday
• 13:30
  and you can't just buy that new outfit or you just have to be a little bit more considered
• 13:37
  about what you're doing, but also it comes down to managing risk.
• 13:43
  The whole point of doing well in property development is managing risk.
• 13:48
  You have to have plan A, B, C, D.
• 13:51
  You can't just have plan A and hope that that's going to come on.
• 13:55
  And do you mean like plan A would be like, right, it's going to cost X
• 13:58
  and it's going to be done by this amount of time.
• 14:00
  And then, oh, no, it costs way more.
• 14:02
  Oh, and it's not going to be done in time.
• 14:04
  Like that's plan B and then plan C is like, yeah.
• 14:06
  Yeah, exactly.
• 14:07
  So in my experience, my plan A would always be to renovate and sell within say two or three months.
• 14:15
  It sounds fast, but we're working with tiny properties here.
• 14:18
  So that's very achievable.
• 14:20
  But worst case is you can't sell it.
• 14:23
  So what are you going to do if you can't sell it?
• 14:26
  What are you going to rent it out for?
• 14:28
  How long can you rent it out for?
• 14:30
  Keeping in mind that you've just renovated it.
• 14:32
  You've probably just spent 30 or 40 K in it.
• 14:36
  So you need to do so many feasibilities on something before you decide to start doing it.
• 14:42
  Because you could be holding on to it for a while.
• 14:46
  So you always have to make sure that you've got a backup that you're really happy with.
• 14:50
  Do you like spreadsheets?
• 14:52
  Absolutely.
• 14:53
  I'm saying a lot of spreadsheets, a lot of scenarios, a lot of assumptions.
• 14:58
  Let's say someone's listening and they've been thinking about wanting to flip properties
• 15:02
  or at least give it a go, like try one.
• 15:04
  How many scenarios genuinely do you need?
• 15:07
  I know you were sort of saying ABCDE, but like the best case scenario would be
• 15:11
  I want to renovate it in this amount of time.
• 15:13
  And I'm hoping to add this much value and sell it for this.
• 15:16
  And it's figuring out the difference, the timeline.
• 15:19
  What is the way that you stagger those scenarios?
• 15:22
  It totally depends on the property.
• 15:24
  So every property is different in my case because they were relatively small.
• 15:30
  I really only had two scenarios because I knew that it wasn't ever going to get worse than renting it out.
• 15:36
  So the way that I would analyse a property is working backwards.
• 15:42
  So I would find something and I would think how much can I realistically sell this for?
• 15:48
  Once it's been renovated, best case scenario, what am I going to get?
• 15:53
  That should always be quite a conservative number.
• 15:55
  You're probably not going to, you're not going to be able to count on getting that exact number.
• 16:00
  And then I would calculate how much I'm going to have to spend on it.
• 16:04
  So what are my priority items?
• 16:07
  How much are they going to cost?
• 16:09
  And I would do quite a bit of research into that.
• 16:11
  And then would you add like a bit of a number?
• 16:14
  100% contingency is really important.
• 16:16
  And then you say, what do I need to buy it for?
• 16:20
  Don't start at what can I buy it for?
• 16:23
  And then work out the rest.
• 16:25
  You need to work back because you don't want to be overpaying.
• 16:28
  The most important thing is buying well.
• 16:31
  And that's how you're going to make money.
• 16:33
  It's not selling well.
• 16:34
  You've got to buy well.
• 16:36
  And so that basically means buying something that is either maybe below market rate
• 16:42
  and you're not having to put in so much, you get it to that ideal selling.
• 16:47
  So would that then be in terms of like what you have to put money into?
• 16:52
  So the research piece of what needs to be added here, like is it paint, is it carpet?
• 16:57
  Is that kind of the way that you would think about it?
• 17:00
  Definitely.
• 17:01
  You want to go into a space and already have a vision.
• 17:03
  And already know that there's not major structural things or water tightness issues
• 17:07
  that you have to deal with that might be surprises.
• 17:10
  So I would always go for properties that have really good bones.
• 17:14
  You want to make sure that you're doing cosmetic stuff,
• 17:17
  but also things that don't necessarily require council consent.
• 17:21
  So for example, I would never move any plumbing.
• 17:24
  Kitchens, they all, the sink stays in the same spot.
• 17:28
  Bathrooms, shower stays in the same place, toilets in the same place.
• 17:32
  Because otherwise if you're going and moving all that stuff,
• 17:34
  you might think it's adding value, but it's going to cost you a lot more in time and in money.
• 17:39
  Gosh, that's a really good tip.
• 17:41
  What about other things?
• 17:43
  Is there other things like putting up a wall or, you know, at least say not structural,
• 17:47
  but would you go into a space and go, oh, I could actually,
• 17:50
  this is enough to be two bedrooms in here and value that way?
• 17:53
  Definitely.
• 17:54
  I think adding walls like partition walls, that's not structural.
• 17:57
  That would be your taking out a big load bearing wall.
• 18:00
  That would be structural.
• 18:02
  So in the apartment I did in new market, I added a partition wall.
• 18:08
  It was like these awful sliding doors when I bought it and it's just a one bedroom.
• 18:13
  But by putting the wall in, I mean, I got really good use of space in the living room
• 18:17
  and then really good use of space in the bedroom.
• 18:20
  So it just immediately added more value because it was clearly a one bed and then not a studio.
• 18:26
  So definitely doing things like that where you can separate the spaces and create a better use.
• 18:32
  And for someone wanting to get into the space,
• 18:34
  is it best to go and look at a whole bunch of properties to get an idea of how to use a space well?
• 18:41
  And also what would you even look for when it comes to like, okay, cool, I'm understanding
• 18:45
  what I'm looking for to spot a property that's going to be good within my budget.
• 18:49
  I can do, because me, you know, face lift to the house and then, like, what are the sort of, yeah, key things that you would look for?
• 18:55
  Because I wouldn't know what the first thing I'd walk into, I was like, this looks great.
• 18:58
  You know, and not realize, oh, actually, if you put a wall there or if you read the kitchen
• 19:03
  but keep the sink in the same spot or, yeah, how do you spot those, I guess, those opportunities?
• 19:09
  I guess it is exactly that you just go in and you think, obviously, we're looking for properties that need work.
• 19:15
  They're going to look awful. You're going to go in and go, this is terrible.
• 19:19
  That's what you want.
• 19:21
  I think the biggest thing though is, is less to do with the property and more to do with the vendor.
• 19:28
  So I would always look for properties that have a stressed vendor.
• 19:32
  So you want to call the agent and you want to ask them as much as you possibly can about when they bought it,
• 19:38
  why they're selling, what urgency they have around it, the appetite for an offer,
• 19:44
  because you could find a property that doesn't actually need that much work.
• 19:49
  But the vendor's really wanting to get it off their hand so you can buy it really well
• 19:54
  or you find a property that needs heaps of work and it's sort of in the vendor could be in the same position.
• 20:02
  So I wouldn't say there's like a list of things that you have to look for.
• 20:05
  Can you backtrack? I'm not totally following that.
• 20:07
  So it's kind of like if someone is in a desperate need to sell, they'll take a bit of price
• 20:11
  because they need the money.
• 20:13
  There might be little work that needs doing but you get it for a cheaper price.
• 20:16
  So therefore when you do that little bit of work, you end up flippling it and actually getting a great price.
• 20:21
  So you want to find people that are desperate to sell.
• 20:24
  So it's just like buying a car and you're trying to find something that someone's moving overseas tomorrow
• 20:29
  and they kind of can't get rid of it.
• 20:31
  And you're like, look, I'll give you $2,000 cash and it's advertised for five and they're like,
• 20:36
  okay, whatever.
• 20:37
  So the idea is more, do your research on the person that's selling it
• 20:42
  because if you find the right person and the right situation, you can buy well.
• 20:48
  I think one of the biggest misconceptions in this industry is renovation equals more money.
• 20:54
  That is not the case.
• 20:56
  I know so many people that have bought properties because they think we're going to add so much value.
• 21:00
  There's so much work to be done.
• 21:02
  And they've turned down a house that is done, which they could have bought better.
• 21:06
  Right? Because by the time they've poured all this money into the renovation,
• 21:09
  they actually almost have spent more than what they would have.
• 21:12
  They just bought something that didn't even need to be renovated.
• 21:15
  Well, they buy something and that needs to be renovated but they didn't buy it well.
• 21:18
  And then they spend all this money on the renovation and wonder why they can't make their money back at the end of it.
• 21:23
  Right, so actually the key to success when it comes to buying and flipping is in the purchase,
• 21:29
  opposed to the rest of it.
• 21:31
  100% you have to buy well.
• 21:33
  How many houses at this point have you renovated and flipped?
• 21:36
  So my first renovation was a home that I bought in Mount Eden in 2018
• 21:41
  and that wasn't a flip, that was, we lived in it for four years and renovated it.
• 21:45
  And then my first actual flip was at the end of 2023, I started it in October and finished it in March.
• 21:54
  And that was a little studio in Mount Eden and then after that was the new market apartment.
• 22:00
  So two flips. I love the flip.
• 22:02
  Sounds like you're literally going to go flip.
• 22:04
  I wish it was that easy, just on its roof.
• 22:07
  How much have you made from it?
• 22:09
  Like what does it look like with a both really successful was one more than the other?
• 22:14
  Like what were the learnings in terms of the difference from a financial return?
• 22:19
  Are you like, oh, I see where I went wrong with that one.
• 22:22
  I got 20% less with that and it was because of this.
• 22:25
  Definitely.
• 22:26
  So the first little Mount Eden studio went really well.
• 22:29
  So I made about 75K on that.
• 22:32
  Amazing.
• 22:33
  Which was, I was really happy with.
• 22:35
  And that's in how much time.
• 22:36
  Sorry, October to April.
• 22:37
  Did you say?
• 22:38
  I settled at the end of October and then finished, yeah, finished in March.
• 22:42
  Five months of work.
• 22:43
  Yeah.
• 22:44
  And not full time.
• 22:45
  Like I was not working eight, two, six every day.
• 22:49
  It was part time.
• 22:50
  And I was pregnant.
• 22:51
  I found out I was pregnant about two weeks into their innovation.
• 22:55
  So got to sell this property.
• 22:56
  All of that.
• 22:57
  That's a pregnant.
• 22:58
  But no, that one went really well.
• 23:00
  I learned a lot probably from the second, the new market one.
• 23:04
  And I still own that.
• 23:05
  So I haven't sold that.
• 23:07
  I put it on the market in June, which was less than a month before my due date.
• 23:11
  And thought, we really want to get this sold.
• 23:14
  But I always knew that my backup was renting it out.
• 23:17
  And it was, it's a 6% return.
• 23:20
  So it has worked out for the better.
• 23:23
  However, when you say the 6% return, do you mean in capital gains?
• 23:28
  Or in, well, you're taking your weekly rent.
• 23:31
  Yeah.
• 23:32
  And you'll income that you're getting from that property.
• 23:36
  And putting that over your purchase price plus the amount that you've renovated.
• 23:40
  That you spend on renovations.
• 23:42
  So that's your initial investment.
• 23:43
  What's your return that you're getting on your initial investment into that property?
• 23:47
  Money diagram later.
• 23:48
  But the idea is that you're getting a 6% return from the rental income.
• 23:54
  And even though you haven't been able to flip it yet.
• 23:57
  Yes, I think that's the key.
• 23:58
  You want to be in a situation where you're not forced to sell.
• 24:01
  So when, when we say have I lost money on a flip?
• 24:06
  No, because I haven't had to realize a loss.
• 24:09
  If I had to sell it in June when I listed it, I would have just had to keep knocking the price back.
• 24:15
  And probably not have been able to make money on it.
• 24:18
  It might have broken even.
• 24:19
  But the key is not having to realize the loss.
• 24:21
  I knew that I could rent it out and wait for the market to come back.
• 24:24
  And then I would be able to sell it.
• 24:25
  So right now, if I sold it in the current market, I would probably make about 50K.
• 24:29
  So wait, if we were to think about you in, you know, just about to go into labor.
• 24:34
  And you're thinking, shit, I just want to get rid of this house right now.
• 24:38
  And someone came along and wanted to buy it.
• 24:41
  And you were in a position where you just had to get rid of it.
• 24:43
  That would be someone else buying well.
• 24:45
  Yes.
• 24:46
  That, for example, you're talking about exactly.
• 24:48
  Yeah, okay.
• 24:49
  So you don't want to be the stress vendor.
• 24:51
  Yeah.
• 24:52
  You want to be the vendor that's sitting there going?
• 24:53
  No.
• 24:54
  I've got options.
• 24:55
  I've got options.
• 24:56
  I'm renting it out.
• 24:57
  Doesn't matter.
• 24:58
  And the rental return is kind of like a dividend in the sense that if you invest in the stock market,
• 25:03
  you're putting down a lump sum of money.
• 25:05
  And then your capital gain is the share price movement, which is the house price movement.
• 25:09
  And then your rental is any dividend.
• 25:12
  So it's like, it's over and above the capital gains.
• 25:15
  So yes.
• 25:16
  You're getting capital gains probably quite a lot at the moment because you've only held it for a short period of time.
• 25:21
  But in the interim, to help with that, you're getting the 6% dividend rental income.
• 25:28
  Exactly.
• 25:29
  So that's also something that if you were doing a feasibility, say, option C was holding it for 10 years,
• 25:34
  add that in to your feasibility and go, I could earn.
• 25:38
  Well, I think it's 10% over 10 years is generally the average that property goes up.
• 25:42
  So factor that in like, you're going to be getting the rental income,
• 25:45
  but you're also going to get the capital gain.
• 25:47
  Because when you said that you did your first flip was your Mount Eden house,
• 25:52
  there would have been no rental income from that because they're living in it,
• 25:55
  but they're getting the capital gain.
• 25:57
  And that's why you would hold it for longer or, yeah, but that's also a way to flip.
• 26:01
  You're flipping very quickly now, but you could also flip.
• 26:04
  Like, it's kind of what my sister does.
• 26:06
  She, they go and they buy a house, they do it up, but they live in it for five years,
• 26:09
  and they do the other ones.
• 26:10
  So they're like, casual flippers.
• 26:12
  A tax thing as well, if you're living in a property and you renovate it,
• 26:16
  you don't have to pay income tax on it because it's your place of residence,
• 26:20
  whereas I pay income tax on the flips.
• 26:22
  So that's really interesting because when I spoke to friends,
• 26:26
  because I've been thinking about doing this maybe not in the same way,
• 26:30
  but trying to figure out if I can handle the risk of putting money into renovate it
• 26:37
  and buying well enough that it makes sense.
• 26:41
  And I want to hold it.
• 26:42
  I'm doing probably almost like even different to your sister and to you, Alex.
• 26:47
  Like, I would like to hold it for like a long period of time,
• 26:50
  but I want to buy something that's within my budget, which is a lot lower,
• 26:54
  and add value it in a way like probably not just because, because maybe,
• 27:00
  figuring out like how to add a bedroom or like, yeah, that kind of an approach,
• 27:04
  but hold it and rent it out.
• 27:06
  That's what I'm thinking of doing.
• 27:08
  But I'm sort of like, this is why this is so fascinating to figure out,
• 27:11
  because it's like, there's so many different ways you can make money in property
• 27:15
  and understanding the risks and all of the different scenarios
• 27:19
  and being really across it before you decide which approach you take is so important.
• 27:24
  Yeah, that would be my biggest piece of advice.
• 27:26
  Just do your research.
• 27:28
  Don't jump into anything because you get emotionally attached to something.
• 27:31
  You really need to make sure that you've crossed all your eyes.
• 27:35
  I think you crossed your teeth.
• 27:37
  You don't have to do your eyes.
• 27:39
  Otherwise, someone else gets an allergies wrong.
• 27:41
  Yeah, the devil's in the detail.
• 27:44
  And like you said, adding a bedroom that is great.
• 27:48
  That was just not something that I had time for or appetite for at the time.
• 27:52
  I really just wanted to get into more of the trading,
• 27:54
  but differently adding a bedroom would add a lot of value to a property.
• 27:59
  Yeah, and I guess that's the thing.
• 28:01
  It's like trying to find the right place and the right vendor.
• 28:04
  Yeah, it's a mix of everything.
• 28:06
  You have to find something that's as aligned to all of those points.
• 28:11
  It's possible, great location, vendor that wants to sell.
• 28:16
  Work that's easy.
• 28:18
  Yeah.
• 28:19
  And where do you find the houses?
• 28:21
  Is it on platforms like Trade Me property, for example?
• 28:24
  Trade Me is amazing.
• 28:26
  That's what I use all the time.
• 28:28
  So I set up my alerts and I'll get emails every day for certain areas
• 28:33
  and certain price bracket.
• 28:35
  So I will throw through them whole agents from that.
• 28:39
  But yeah, I find Trade Me the best just simply for the alert function as well.
• 28:45
  You just get everything served you as soon as it's live.
• 28:49
  Another hack on Trade Me, which a lot of people that I've talked to,
• 28:53
  it seems simple, but a lot of people I've talked to don't know about it.
• 28:57
  So in terms of looking for a vendor that is desperate to sell,
• 29:02
  you would go on to Trade Me and you would set up all your filters.
• 29:05
  So location, price, whatever that happens to be for you,
• 29:08
  you'd get the search results and then filter by date listed.
• 29:12
  And then you want to scroll to the bottom and go to the very last page.
• 29:16
  And then all of these listings are going to be the ones that have been there the longest.
• 29:20
  They haven't just been sent out to everyone.
• 29:23
  They probably don't even have open homes anymore because they've had a failed campaign.
• 29:27
  So that's going to mean that the vendor has already been conditioned down.
• 29:31
  They probably have realized the price that they initially thought they're going to get,
• 29:35
  they're not actually going to be able to get.
• 29:37
  So going through these listings fairly regularly and calling the agent
• 29:41
  and seeing what the vendor's appetite is like and how the conditioning is going
• 29:45
  is really a hack.
• 29:47
  It's so good.
• 29:48
  Can you talk about what do you mean by the conditioning
• 29:51
  and the calling the vendor and asking them appetite?
• 29:55
  Yeah.
• 29:56
  What does that mean?
• 29:57
  I just mean, so say you're a real estate agent and you're trying to sell someone's house, right?
• 30:02
  And you do an appraisal.
• 30:04
  Every agent has to do an appraisal when they sell a house.
• 30:07
  So say we're going to sell this for a million dollars and the vendor goes wonderful.
• 30:12
  I would like that.
• 30:13
  List it please.
• 30:15
  And they go away and do a campaign they have all the open homes
• 30:18
  and at the end of it, no one is at the auction.
• 30:21
  They're going to have to then go to the vendor and go,
• 30:24
  sorry, we haven't been able to sell it but we'll keep it listed
• 30:28
  but you're probably not going to get million dollars
• 30:31
  because if you were, they would have been at the auction.
• 30:34
  The conditioning just means bringing the expectations down of the vendor
• 30:39
  or just not just being more realistic with where the market's at.
• 30:43
  So they go back to the vendor and be like, look, let's do another campaign
• 30:46
  or something at 800,000 and see what we get.
• 30:48
  And then if they still don't have anything, you know, you just kind of,
• 30:51
  it's all about supply and demand in terms of you.
• 30:54
  If you keep bringing down the price eventually, people will be like,
• 30:57
  oh, this looks attractive and that's what you're saying.
• 30:59
  If you do that for a couple of months, you're then at the bottom of the pile
• 31:02
  in terms of trademark listings because you've been on there for a while.
• 31:05
  So therefore, the vendor might have been trying to sell for like three months,
• 31:10
  for example, and they're like, okay, you know what?
• 31:13
  Here's Alex wanting to buy it for 700,000.
• 31:15
  Oh, just, I'll do it.
• 31:16
  Yes.
• 31:17
  I'm sick and tired of this or I'm desperate.
• 31:19
  Yeah.
• 31:20
  I just want it gone.
• 31:21
  Yeah.
• 31:22
  And what kind of questions should people be asking the person that's trying to sell the house?
• 31:25
  Like when you call them, so when you go through and you find a listing,
• 31:28
  you're like, oh, I want to know more about this.
• 31:30
  What kinds of questions do you ask?
• 31:31
  So you would just be calling the agent and asking, number one, why are they selling?
• 31:36
  You also want to find out when they bought it, because if you find a listing of a property
• 31:42
  and they bought it a year ago and they way overpaid for it,
• 31:46
  chances are it's not going to be the property for you,
• 31:48
  because they're not going to want to take a big loss on it.
• 31:50
  They're probably at least going to want to make their money back,
• 31:53
  in which case it's not going to make sense for a renovation.
• 31:56
  So you would need to ask how much they bought it for when they bought it,
• 32:02
  why they're selling.
• 32:03
  And why they're selling.
• 32:04
  Yes.
• 32:05
  Those would be the main ones.
• 32:07
  Are people going to lie, though, with some of that stuff?
• 32:09
  Like why are the agents generally, they tell.
• 32:12
  You can tell.
• 32:13
  You can tell that they were selling.
• 32:14
  If something is wrong with the property and it's been stated to them
• 32:17
  from the vendor, they have to tell you.
• 32:19
  Legally, they have to disclose.
• 32:20
  They have to disclose.
• 32:21
  They have to disclose.
• 32:22
  They have to be addicts.
• 32:23
  It's a mess house.
• 32:24
  Or there's been water tightness issues.
• 32:26
  And it's like the recent flooding in New Zealand, like it's all that stuff.
• 32:30
  What are the green ticks to those questions?
• 32:33
  Like if you're asking those questions and, you know, for you,
• 32:37
  you're searching for the next property that you want to buy and flip.
• 32:40
  What is green tick, green tick, green tick?
• 32:42
  Green tick, they bought it 20 plus years ago for $70,000.
• 32:47
  And they have no debt on it.
• 32:49
  Tick, tick, tick.
• 32:50
  Tick, tick, tick.
• 32:51
  That would be great.
• 32:52
  Also, it's like buying a car, it's like getting a grandma Suzuki Swift
• 32:55
  that she's done like three miles on.
• 32:58
  And she's living down and have a lot more than she's happy as Larry
• 33:01
  and just wants to get rid of it.
• 33:02
  You're like, look, you know, I'll give you double your money.
• 33:05
  I'll buy you a house in her and pay for $140,000
• 33:08
  because you bought it $70,000.
• 33:10
  Yeah.
• 33:11
  Yeah.
• 33:12
  Yeah.
• 33:13
  Yeah.
• 33:14
  Yeah.
• 33:15
  Yeah.
• 33:16
  Yeah.
• 33:17
  Yeah.
• 33:18
  Yeah.
• 33:19
  Yeah.
• 33:20
  Yeah.
• 33:21
  Yeah.
• 33:22
  Yeah.
• 33:23
  Yeah.
• 33:24
  Yeah.
• 33:25
  Yeah.
• 33:26
  Yeah.
• 33:27
  Yeah.
• 33:28
  Yeah.
• 33:29
  Yeah.
• 33:31
  Like, big concrete bricks, essentially, really soundrolproof,
• 33:34
  relatively insulated,
• 33:37
  they just stand the test of time,
• 33:39
  nothing is going to knock that over, you know.
• 33:42
  And how do you find out the good bones?
• 33:44
  Is that through a lawyer doing a check for you?
• 33:46
  No, I think that's more just knowing what materials
• 33:50
  are good, research.
• 33:51
  Yeah.
• 33:52
  Yeah.
• 33:53
  Yeah.
• 33:54
  Yeah.
• 33:55
  Yeah.
• 33:56
  Yeah.
• 33:57
  Yeah.
• 33:58
  get them to come through and give you their two cents.
• 34:01
  You want to make sure that you've got the experts on your side.
• 34:05
  I'm not sitting here saying I'm doing all of this on my own.
• 34:09
  Like, my Sparky is amazing, my plumber is amazing.
• 34:13
  You've got to have your subbies that are on your side
• 34:16
  and can quickly come and look at something for you.
• 34:19
  I know my Sparky used to come and lift heavy things for me
• 34:22
  because I was doing these renovations, you know,
• 34:24
  seven months pregnant.
• 34:25
  So, yeah, I think it also comes down to,
• 34:28
  if you're not sure about something,
• 34:30
  you want to have the expert to ask.
• 34:32
  What about location? Is location a big one?
• 34:34
  A massive one.
• 34:35
  Yeah, a really big one.
• 34:36
  So, how close everything is to public transport?
• 34:39
  Is a really major one?
• 34:41
  A big learning that I've taken from the new market apartment
• 34:44
  is that it didn't come with a car park.
• 34:46
  And I would never buy something that doesn't have a car park again
• 34:49
  because that's been a real deal breaker for a lot of people.
• 34:53
  When I was renovating my house and my dad was like,
• 34:55
  you should put on a bath.
• 34:56
  I was like, Dad, I can't remember the last time I had a bath.
• 34:58
  You know, like I was like, a shower was fine.
• 35:00
  He said, no, but if you want to resell this
• 35:02
  and you cut out pretty much anyone with kids
• 35:05
  because, and I was like, oh, such a good point.
• 35:07
  So, I was like, things that you might not use,
• 35:09
  that you might bust to work every day.
• 35:10
  But when you want to sell it,
• 35:12
  it's like there's people that have cars
• 35:14
  and want off-street parking.
• 35:15
  If they've got kids that they're trying to wrangle from the car.
• 35:17
  Like, there's so many things.
• 35:18
  What about an apartment building going up
• 35:20
  and like blocking out the light and the view and everything?
• 35:23
  It's so hard to know that stuff though.
• 35:26
  Yeah, I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
• 35:29
  You really can't just like pin it to a list
• 35:32
  because every property is so different.
• 35:34
  Say, I probably would steer clear of things
• 35:37
  that are right next to lots of council housing.
• 35:40
  For example, it doesn't bother me,
• 35:42
  but it bothers a lot of buyers.
• 35:43
  So you just have to put yourself in a buyer's shoes
• 35:46
  and look around and go, what about this area might be?
• 35:49
  And I'll go.
• 35:50
  When it comes to the actual cosmetic renovation,
• 35:53
  when you're adding value and you're trying to figure out,
• 35:56
  let's say you've done your budget before
• 35:58
  and you know all you can spend is $70,000 on this renovation.
• 36:02
  How do you prioritize where that money goes?
• 36:06
  So then it looks great, not cheap.
• 36:08
  But you know, like, how do you balance not blowing out your budget
• 36:12
  but making sure you're adding enough value
• 36:14
  and making it look great?
• 36:15
  How do you work that?
• 36:16
  And also like prioritizing, you know, people might put a lot of emphasis on it,
• 36:20
  having a kitchen bench rather than, you know, in a cheaper toilet
• 36:23
  or, you know, where, where, over your experience,
• 36:25
  have people actually seen value?
• 36:27
  Yeah, focus on the most value.
• 36:29
  Yeah, definitely.
• 36:30
  I think kitchens and bathrooms,
• 36:32
  that is my number one place that I would always see to add value.
• 36:36
  It always redo the full kitchen.
• 36:38
  There's nothing worse when you go into an open home
• 36:40
  and you see some mold in the corner.
• 36:42
  You want everything to look fresh.
• 36:43
  So kitchen and bathrooms would be my first portal call.
• 36:46
  I would also say get three quotes for everything
• 36:49
  and do not always go with the cheapest one.
• 36:51
  You want to know exactly what they're covering
• 36:53
  and what labour they're covering
• 36:55
  so that you're not stunned by hidden costs.
• 36:58
  So am I going to have to get my plumber to install the sink
• 37:01
  or is the kitchen installer going to do that?
• 37:03
  Little things like that that you have to know
• 37:05
  who is doing what when?
• 37:07
  I actually had a funny situation
• 37:09
  when I went to do my renovation
• 37:11
  and I got told, yeah, make sure you get three quotes
• 37:14
  when I was choosing a building.
• 37:15
  They were like, yeah, make sure you get three quotes
• 37:17
  and add them together because that's what you were paying.
• 37:20
  And I was like, bullshit.
• 37:22
  Anyway, it came in exactly three times what I was quoted.
• 37:25
  And I was like, oh my god.
• 37:26
  So yours is a bit of a different situation.
• 37:28
  You're doing that too.
• 37:29
  Is that true though for renovations as well?
• 37:30
  Like for what you're doing?
• 37:31
  I would definitely say have a healthy contingency.
• 37:33
  I don't know if I go three times,
• 37:35
  but with the small renovations I'm doing,
• 37:38
  I have a fairly good idea of what it's going to cost
• 37:41
  and with the contingency, you're usually fine.
• 37:44
  But I mean, I'm getting quotes upfront as well
• 37:46
  and making sure that I'm locking in as much as I can
• 37:49
  and I don't like not knowing what the final cost
• 37:52
  for something's going to be.
• 37:54
  It's like going to get a haircut and you don't get your quote
• 37:56
  and they're like, we did Ballyar, so it's 500
• 37:58
  and you're like, you're like, what?
• 37:59
  I can't return it now.
• 38:01
  Yeah, done it.
• 38:02
  Okay, that's a really good tip.
• 38:03
  So I have a lot of learnings from my renovation, don't I?
• 38:06
  Yeah.
• 38:07
  What do you think are some cons that people haven't thought of
• 38:12
  when it comes to this?
• 38:13
  Because I think that the idea of making money in property
• 38:16
  sounds super exciting and like starry eyed
• 38:18
  and you know, so many of our parents have made a lot of money
• 38:21
  in property or you know,
• 38:23
  the two generations ahead of us have done well.
• 38:25
  It's a lot harder for our generation to make money
• 38:29
  and significant amounts when it comes to houses
• 38:32
  with you're renovating or you're buying and holding.
• 38:35
  Can we just go through some like very realistic cons
• 38:38
  to this approach to property?
• 38:40
  I think what I touched on earlier that inconsistency of income
• 38:43
  I think that is really hard adjustment.
• 38:46
  It's hard work that it's quite labor intensive,
• 38:49
  depending on how much you decide that you want to do
• 38:52
  or not unfortunately I was pregnant.
• 38:54
  So there was certain things like painting a studio
• 38:56
  which I wasn't going to do.
• 38:58
  Is that because of the fumes or like?
• 39:00
  Yeah, yeah.
• 39:01
  Probably not great if I'm stuck in like this one.
• 39:04
  I am pregnant.
• 39:06
  Is it lonely?
• 39:07
  It is.
• 39:08
  I really miss working with people in an office
• 39:12
  but having said that you find subbies that you like.
• 39:15
  So you're going to say you find people to talk to.
• 39:17
  You talk to yourself or something?
• 39:19
  Talk to the neighbours.
• 39:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 39:21
  It is quite hard to stay motivated.
• 39:24
  You're your own boss,
• 39:25
  you have to make sure you're getting up
• 39:27
  and you're ripping up old carpet
• 39:29
  that you don't want to talk.
• 39:31
  Have you found anything weird?
• 39:33
  Yeah, I've got you.
• 39:35
  What?
• 39:36
  I don't want to know this
• 39:38
  but I can say it now because of the song.
• 39:40
  Is it a dead body?
• 39:42
  Oh my god.
• 39:44
  Oh my god.
• 39:45
  What ever.
• 39:46
  I'm minor.
• 39:47
  So the Mount Eden renovation that I did.
• 39:50
  One of the neighbours came down one day
• 39:52
  and this was about three days after I had ripped the carpet out
• 39:56
  and he said the previous tenant died in here.
• 39:59
  Oh my god.
• 40:00
  You didn't know when you were touching the carpet.
• 40:01
  They didn't find him for a week.
• 40:03
  Oh my god.
• 40:04
  I know.
• 40:05
  And I had just ripped the carpet out.
• 40:07
  Hold on, let's just wait.
• 40:08
  Hold on.
• 40:09
  So sorry.
• 40:10
  This isn't funny by the way.
• 40:11
  I don't know why I'm laughing.
• 40:12
  There's so much in here.
• 40:13
  There's so much in here.
• 40:14
  Like the neighbours coming down.
• 40:15
  You're like, hi, how are you doing?
• 40:16
  Yeah.
• 40:17
  They've just been wrapping up the carpet.
• 40:18
  Yeah.
• 40:19
  And then they're like,
• 40:20
  so sorry but they didn't find him
• 40:21
  because they didn't know where in the house he was.
• 40:23
  Or, no.
• 40:25
  Oh no.
• 40:26
  I'm so awful.
• 40:28
  That's my worst here.
• 40:29
  So awful.
• 40:30
  Oh my god, that's awful.
• 40:31
  And his family were all overseas.
• 40:32
  So I don't think they knew what was going on.
• 40:35
  Oh my god.
• 40:36
  But that's the kind of thing that you wouldn't have.
• 40:38
  You wouldn't necessarily have that, like,
• 40:40
  written down anywhere though.
• 40:41
  Like, how would you know that about a property or space?
• 40:44
  Like, because there would be some pretty horrible things
• 40:46
  that have happened in houses, but you don't know.
• 40:49
  No.
• 40:50
  Well, unless the people selling the house in this case,
• 40:52
  I think it was his brother in Australia.
• 40:54
  Unless he had told the agent they didn't need to tell me anything.
• 40:57
  And the agent actually had no idea.
• 40:59
  I rang him and said,
• 41:00
  did you have any idea that someone actually passed away in there?
• 41:04
  And he was like, no.
• 41:06
  I guess you don't have to disclose.
• 41:07
  Like, if I died in mine.
• 41:08
  And then my family wanted to sell my house.
• 41:11
  Yeah, they don't have to disclose that to the agent.
• 41:13
  I don't know why.
• 41:14
  No, I don't think you would have to.
• 41:15
  Oh my god.
• 41:16
  Yeah, the neighbor told me and I was like,
• 41:17
  why did you tell me?
• 41:19
  Why did you tell me?
• 41:20
  Why did you tell me this?
• 41:22
  Don't know what told me this.
• 41:24
  But it is pretty like, it is hard work.
• 41:26
  You're doing physical labor.
• 41:28
  Regardless of how gross the carpet is.
• 41:30
  It's never going to be a glamorous job.
• 41:32
  No, it's really not.
• 41:34
  You're up on a ladder half the time.
• 41:36
  You're sweeping the floor.
• 41:37
  We're dangerous as well.
• 41:38
  Yeah, but and how the messages that I got
• 41:40
  when I was off a ladder hanging curtains
• 41:42
  at seven months pregnant everyone's like, get off the ladder.
• 41:45
  You're engaging your child.
• 41:47
  I promise I'm safe.
• 41:48
  I really think it's super admirable what you're doing.
• 41:51
  Honestly, I think that you're obviously so intelligent
• 41:54
  and you've got all the, you know what you're doing
• 41:56
  and you're doing it in a really clever way.
• 41:58
  But I think all of that aside,
• 42:00
  the fact that you're getting down on your hands
• 42:03
  and he's then pulling up carpet and scraping off old.
• 42:05
  It's not, it's not what people probably think
• 42:09
  when they think about renovating a house
• 42:11
  and flipping it on.
• 42:12
  It's not glam.
• 42:13
  No, but I really love that.
• 42:15
  I love that you're using power tools.
• 42:17
  I love that you're doing the stuff that so traditionally
• 42:20
  what guys would do for a job and not think twice about it.
• 42:23
  Like I don't know anyone else doing it.
• 42:25
  Who's a woman?
• 42:26
  Which I think is awesome.
• 42:27
  It's fun.
• 42:28
  Thank you.
• 42:29
  Yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 42:30
  I reckon you would have a lot of people that would think
• 42:32
  have a lot of respect for you for what you're doing.
• 42:34
  I agree.
• 42:35
  You they might not say it,
• 42:36
  but I would imagine that a lot of people are thinking.
• 42:38
  And it's cool now that you're putting stuff on social media
• 42:40
  because people are seeing what you're doing behind the scenes.
• 42:43
  It's not just they're like,
• 42:44
  here's the nice finished product you're showing
• 42:46
  the nitty gritty in between.
• 42:47
  Yeah.
• 42:48
  I think especially all my girlfriends, they love it.
• 42:50
  There's so much that girls don't know about renovating
• 42:53
  or power tools,
• 42:54
  but it's honestly so easy.
• 42:56
  Once you are comfortable using a hammer and a drill,
• 42:59
  the other stuff is not so scary.
• 43:01
  I would say though,
• 43:02
  I get quite a lot of help from my husband as well.
• 43:05
  Our borough has tools all the time
• 43:07
  and I don't always return them
• 43:08
  and he has major problems with that.
• 43:10
  So sorry.
• 43:11
  Sorry.
• 43:12
  Yeah.
• 43:13
  I had to cut down a curgeon rail.
• 43:15
  And so I got our grinder out.
• 43:16
  This is a few months ago.
• 43:18
  And I called him and I was like,
• 43:19
  where's the blade for your grinder?
• 43:21
  And he's like,
• 43:22
  sorry.
• 43:23
  But why are you giving the grinder out?
• 43:25
  So grinder is like,
• 43:26
  you cut metal with it,
• 43:27
  like this sparks flying everywhere.
• 43:28
  He's like,
• 43:29
  what are you wearing?
• 43:30
  I'm like, just make says pants.
• 43:31
  He's like,
• 43:32
  do you have shoes on?
• 43:33
  I'm like, no.
• 43:34
  No.
• 43:35
  He's like, okay.
• 43:36
  I'll tell you where it is.
• 43:37
  But you first have to put some clothes shoes on.
• 43:41
  I'm like, he gave me glasses and masks
• 43:45
  when I started doing it.
• 43:46
  And he's like,
• 43:47
  you have to wear these.
• 43:48
  I was like,
• 43:49
  yeah.
• 43:50
  And then obviously we found out I was pregnant
• 43:51
  and I was like,
• 43:52
  oh, I really do have to wear these.
• 43:53
  Do you know what's great though?
• 43:54
  I reckon your baby would slip through anything now.
• 43:56
  Like if you've been turning on like a grinder
• 43:58
  while it's sleeping in your belly,
• 44:00
  you put on a vacuum running around the house.
• 44:02
  It's really just like,
• 44:03
  thank God it's like listening to the waves.
• 44:05
  It's almost to the detriment though
• 44:07
  because he has to be moving.
• 44:10
  Or like he has to be stimulated a lot,
• 44:12
  especially when he was a newborn.
• 44:14
  But he wouldn't be happy just being held or like lying there.
• 44:17
  He's like,
• 44:18
  no, I've been moving the entire my entire life
• 44:21
  until this point.
• 44:22
  So keep moving.
• 44:23
  Like, do you sit down mum?
• 44:24
  Yeah.
• 44:25
  I can't sit.
• 44:26
  Get up.
• 44:27
  Even using the power tools,
• 44:29
  I would not even know where to start.
• 44:31
  Like,
• 44:32
  having to probably find,
• 44:33
  but grind it out.
• 44:34
  You should.
• 44:35
  You'd be fine.
• 44:36
  Yeah.
• 44:37
  Tech talk.
• 44:38
  Instagram.
• 44:39
  It's all there.
• 44:40
  It's so impressive.
• 44:41
  I love that you're doing this.
• 44:42
  Or even I can just follow Handy Honey
• 44:43
  and figure out how to use a grinder
• 44:44
  and a screwdriver.
• 44:45
  Yeah.
• 44:46
  I'll be back on the tool shortly.
• 44:47
  So back on the tools?
• 44:48
  I know.
• 44:49
  Such a great phrase.
• 44:50
  I think.
• 44:51
  Yeah.
• 44:52
  In the next couple of months,
• 44:53
  there should be something new coming back.
• 44:55
  It's exciting.
• 44:56
  Yeah.
• 44:57
  Everyone's probably going to go and have a quick look
• 44:59
  and they're going to say that I haven't been active
• 45:00
  for six months,
• 45:01
  but you'll say that that's because I had to travel.
• 45:03
  One thing I do want to know
• 45:05
  is if you don't have a huge deposit,
• 45:09
  do you have any advice for people
• 45:11
  who are maybe wanting to get started
• 45:13
  or would like to get into this,
• 45:15
  but aren't starting from a big base?
• 45:18
  Definitely.
• 45:19
  So property development
• 45:21
  is all about making money
• 45:23
  with other people's money.
• 45:24
  So if you have a good development
• 45:27
  and it stacks up
• 45:28
  and you can demonstrate how it stacks up
• 45:30
  with a detailed feasibility,
• 45:32
  you're always going to be able to find someone
• 45:34
  with the money and do a joint venture with them.
• 45:37
  So then you can split the profit.
• 45:39
  So I've said,
• 45:40
  this is sounding good.
• 45:41
  You've got to do the feasibility.
• 45:43
  Excel, Excel, Excel.
• 45:46
  Do you say someone as in,
• 45:49
  so not necessarily a bank?
• 45:50
  No.
• 45:51
  Yeah.
• 45:52
  A bank is generally,
• 45:53
  historically, the cheapest way to get lent money, right?
• 45:56
  But if you have a friend or a family member,
• 45:59
  someone that you can do it with that has the money,
• 46:02
  then that's a great advantage.
• 46:04
  But how much would they need, though?
• 46:05
  Because wouldn't you,
• 46:06
  is this outside of a mortgage?
• 46:08
  Are you saying?
• 46:09
  Yeah.
• 46:10
  It's all you're saying,
• 46:11
  the whole thing you do with someone
• 46:12
  that can afford to have it.
• 46:13
  And it could be,
• 46:14
  if you don't have the deposit,
• 46:16
  then you could always find someone
• 46:17
  to help you with that
• 46:18
  and get bank funding.
• 46:19
  Also starting small,
• 46:20
  like the numbers that I'm working with
• 46:22
  are not huge.
• 46:23
  I bought both of them
• 46:24
  well under 500K.
• 46:26
  So even if you are getting money
• 46:28
  from the bank,
• 46:29
  the deposit that you have
• 46:30
  that you have to have isn't that,
• 46:32
  but compared to say buying a big house.
• 46:34
  So it starts small.
• 46:35
  So it's like.
• 46:36
  Oh, my brain's just ticking
• 46:37
  because that's probably
• 46:38
  the sum low amount
• 46:39
  that I would be looking to spend.
• 46:41
  But then I'm just thinking,
• 46:43
  if I'm not the one doing the renovations
• 46:45
  that I'm paying someone else
• 46:46
  to add the value like you've done,
• 46:49
  and you're only making around 75,000,
• 46:52
  which is great.
• 46:53
  But if you're paying contractors,
• 46:55
  there's a pretty small margin there.
• 46:57
  I see what's happening here.
• 47:00
  No, I'm not going to get her
• 47:01
  to go and rip up the car
• 47:02
  but from there.
• 47:03
  No, she fight.
• 47:04
  Yeah.
• 47:05
  Oh, we do a joint venture.
• 47:07
  Well, no, no, no.
• 47:09
  You find someone,
• 47:10
  like Alex is finding someone
• 47:11
  that has the money.
• 47:12
  She has the skills.
• 47:13
  Oh, my God.
• 47:14
  Can you stop speaking to me?
• 47:15
  Like, I'm a child.
• 47:16
  No, which is like,
• 47:17
  it's like,
• 47:18
  I was like, oh, my God.
• 47:20
  You don't have the time to do it.
• 47:21
  She does.
• 47:22
  No, but do you know what my brain does?
• 47:23
  Unless you're doing the actual renovations.
• 47:27
  Because I have the mentality that
• 47:29
  what you were saying before,
• 47:30
  you just renovate and you get to add value
• 47:32
  and then you make money.
• 47:33
  Like, if you're been doing five months
• 47:35
  of work on a house
• 47:36
  and you think about,
• 47:37
  that's actually contracted out
• 47:38
  to builders or plumbers or sparkies
• 47:40
  or whatever,
• 47:42
  painters,
• 47:43
  there's not a lot of margin there
• 47:45
  to make money.
• 47:46
  No, it's kind of what I'm meaning.
• 47:47
  Definitely.
• 47:48
  So that just comes back to the numbers.
• 47:49
  You need to make sure
• 47:50
  that the property is going to work for you.
• 47:52
  You've affected that into your work.
• 47:54
  You have to factor all of that in.
• 47:56
  Yeah.
• 47:57
  But also, if you're being able to do that
• 47:59
  while you have a full-time job,
• 48:01
  I'm factoring in,
• 48:02
  this is my job.
• 48:04
  That's your salary.
• 48:05
  Yeah.
• 48:06
  For you,
• 48:07
  it's a nice,
• 48:08
  because if you're not broke even on a property.
• 48:10
  So, you know,
• 48:11
  you bought it,
• 48:12
  you added value and you sold it.
• 48:14
  But that price,
• 48:15
  you made no money.
• 48:16
  Like for you,
• 48:17
  that's a terrible situation
• 48:19
  because you've just worked for five months
• 48:21
  for free, essentially.
• 48:22
  So even though she's made 75,000,
• 48:24
  you've, for that,
• 48:26
  for that one property
• 48:27
  that you made 75,000,
• 48:28
  that's effectively paying you.
• 48:30
  Yeah.
• 48:31
  But when you do your numbers,
• 48:32
  are you factoring in
• 48:33
  paying yourself like a salary
• 48:35
  or are you thinking of the amount
• 48:36
  that you can make at the end
• 48:37
  is your salary?
• 48:38
  The amount that I make at the end
• 48:40
  is my salary.
• 48:41
  Yeah.
• 48:42
  So if you do two a year
• 48:43
  and you made 75,000
• 48:45
  and you're making 150,000 a year,
• 48:47
  it's kind of how you think about it.
• 48:49
  Exactly.
• 48:50
  What would you say to,
• 48:51
  you know, a young buck like me
• 48:53
  who is wanting to
• 48:55
  and you older than Alex?
• 48:56
  Yeah.
• 48:57
  What would you say to somebody
• 49:00
  who is thinking about getting into this
• 49:02
  or thinking about the idea
• 49:04
  of buying adding value
• 49:06
  to a house and selling it on?
• 49:08
  Do you have any,
• 49:09
  I don't know,
• 49:10
  like words of wisdom
• 49:11
  or questions to ask yourself
• 49:13
  before you decide
• 49:14
  that this is, you know,
• 49:15
  like I just,
• 49:16
  I mean, we've spoken about so much.
• 49:17
  I think you've been really honest
• 49:19
  and like she's so much inside.
• 49:22
  I'm like still not 100% sure
• 49:26
  as someone that's like trying to figure out
• 49:28
  the best way to make money
• 49:30
  and property because let's be honest,
• 49:31
  we're all just trying to make money, right?
• 49:33
  Like whether it's buying a hold
• 49:34
  or it's buying add value,
• 49:36
  like I guess to summarize
• 49:37
  what we've talked about,
• 49:38
  feasibility,
• 49:40
  be happy with your plan B,
• 49:43
  plan as much as you can.
• 49:46
  So what is it going to cost
• 49:47
  where could the potential blowouts be?
• 49:49
  Get three quotes for everything
• 49:51
  and make sure that you have reliable
• 49:52
  subbies working with you.
• 49:54
  You need to find the right property.
• 49:56
  I think it's just a case of
• 49:57
  if you're going to go down this road,
• 49:58
  like make sure you do
• 49:59
  that all the research in the planning
• 50:01
  because you'll easily get burnt
• 50:04
  if you just jump in,
• 50:05
  find a house you love,
• 50:06
  you haven't done,
• 50:07
  take all the risk approach,
• 50:08
  put in all the costings,
• 50:10
  got three quotes,
• 50:11
  done a plan,
• 50:12
  done a plan B.
• 50:13
  If you haven't done all that,
• 50:14
  then it's not going to be
• 50:16
  something that you can do successfully
• 50:18
  time and time again
• 50:19
  because you'd probably
• 50:20
  lose money in the first one
• 50:21
  and then be.
• 50:22
  Yeah.
• 50:23
  I think that to summarize
• 50:24
  all of that together,
• 50:26
  it's like take all emotion out of it.
• 50:28
  This is a job
• 50:29
  and everyone's job
• 50:32
  is to make money, right?
• 50:33
  This is no different.
• 50:34
  So you just need to do the numbers.
• 50:36
  Thank you.
• 50:37
  It's a kick up the ass I need it.
• 50:39
  Can I ask one more question
• 50:41
  because you're obviously
• 50:42
  really knowledgeable about
• 50:43
  the property market in general.
• 50:44
  What do you think
• 50:45
  is going to happen in the next
• 50:46
  like few years?
• 50:47
  Like I'm just,
• 50:48
  I need for a friend.
• 50:49
  No, I know that it's not like
• 50:50
  you can't guarantee anything
• 50:51
  and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 50:52
  But I'm just,
• 50:53
  as I'm doing my research
• 50:54
  because I am really trying
• 50:55
  to understand my options
• 50:57
  and like what's going on
• 50:58
  and like asking questions,
• 50:59
  I just would love to know
• 51:00
  what your thoughts are
• 51:01
  on the property market in general.
• 51:03
  So the best person that I follow
• 51:05
  is our friend Tony Alexander.
• 51:07
  I think that he has some great insight.
• 51:10
  He's an economist.
• 51:11
  He does lots of reporting
• 51:12
  on the New Zealand property market.
• 51:14
  I think in the next couple of months
• 51:17
  we're going to see a lot more listings
• 51:19
  come to the market.
• 51:20
  They've dropped the OCR.
• 51:22
  So I think money is going...
• 51:23
  The short cash rate that is...
• 51:24
  Which means what again?
• 51:25
  The interest rate like...
• 51:26
  Interest rate will drop.
• 51:27
  The interest rate that the
• 51:29
  central banking New Zealand sets
• 51:31
  and other banks follow.
• 51:32
  So money is going to be cheaper
• 51:33
  for people to get.
• 51:35
  So therefore there's going to be
• 51:37
  more people that want to buy property.
• 51:39
  So that means that the prices
• 51:41
  of the properties will also start to go up.
• 51:43
  Start to go up.
• 51:44
  I mean, it's just supply and demand.
• 51:46
  When there's more people out there
• 51:47
  with the money to be buying,
• 51:48
  then there's going to be
• 51:50
  less time to be found.
• 51:53
  I just really feel like it's my time.
• 51:56
  I know this is not so weird.
• 51:59
  And I'm not sure if I sound like a used car salesman,
• 52:02
  but I really feel like this is my opportunity
• 52:04
  and I don't want to miss out.
• 52:06
  Be careful of pharma
• 52:07
  because if you're feeling like
• 52:08
  you're going to miss out,
• 52:09
  there's going to be other people out there
• 52:11
  thinking they're going to miss out.
• 52:12
  And that's when you risk
• 52:13
  overpaying for something.
• 52:14
  Because everyone's putting
• 52:15
  against each other
• 52:16
  and they're trying to together.
• 52:17
  Yeah.
• 52:18
  If you can put that feeling aside,
• 52:19
  I definitely think it's a good time to buy.
• 52:20
  It's still a buyer's market.
• 52:22
  So if you can get your ducks in a row quickly
• 52:26
  and get in there,
• 52:27
  trust me, I'm trying.
• 52:28
  It's just one duck.
• 52:29
  It's just one duck.
• 52:30
  It's just one duck.
• 52:31
  Oh, come on duck.
• 52:34
  Yeah, I'm trying to get pre-approval
• 52:35
  and it's proving to be very difficult.
• 52:37
  But when she does,
• 52:38
  when she buys a house,
• 52:39
  we're going to have a big house party.
• 52:40
  Yeah, we're thinking we're going to have a house party.
• 52:41
  Well, if you buy a big arena,
• 52:43
  we can do a demo party.
• 52:44
  Oh, they're doing quite fun.
• 52:46
  We all dress up in hivers.
• 52:47
  And it brings us on.
• 52:48
  Yeah, you have to bring on your safety glasses.
• 52:51
  Safety glasses.
• 52:52
  Safety first.
• 52:53
  Alex will come with a grinder.
• 52:54
  But...
• 52:55
  Whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 52:56
  Oh, okay.
• 52:57
  My sledgehammer.
• 52:58
  What are we doing together?
• 53:00
  Oh, thank you so much for sharing.
• 53:02
  I feel like this has been so insightful.
• 53:04
  And I want to start flipping.
• 53:06
  Do you?
• 53:07
  Yeah.
• 53:08
  I reckon you'd be a terrible flipper.
• 53:09
  I'd just overpay for it.
• 53:10
  No, you'd overpay.
• 53:11
  But I also cannot imagine you getting done dirty.
• 53:14
  Oh, okay.
• 53:15
  Yeah.
• 53:16
  Do you think?
• 53:17
  Yeah, I definitely, yeah.
• 53:18
  Because I'll believe that when I see you do one small job
• 53:20
  that involves like moulds or...
• 53:22
  I paint it like my whole entire house
• 53:24
  because I wanted to save my nanopainter
• 53:26
  and God and then he killed me.
• 53:28
  Painting is hard.
• 53:29
  Paintings?
• 53:30
  I'm going to pay a painter every time.
• 53:32
  Also, like professional painters,
• 53:34
  they're professional for a reason.
• 53:35
  If you tried to paint your house, I'm sorry.
• 53:37
  I'd probably look shit.
• 53:38
  I know.
• 53:39
  Yeah.
• 53:40
  Well, at least me.
• 53:41
  That's one job that I don't do.
• 53:43
  And I notice things like, I'm like, damn it.
• 53:45
  I miss that corner.
• 53:46
  Every time he's sitting around to be like, ugh.
• 53:48
  Yeah.
• 53:49
  It does feel like a total waste of money
• 53:51
  when you see they just use those giant rollers.
• 53:53
  And you're like, I could do that.
• 53:54
  But I'm sure I couldn't.
• 53:56
  Yeah.
• 53:57
  No, I thank you so much for coming on Alex.
• 53:58
  So.
• 53:59
  So.
• 54:00
  Love to.
• 54:01
  And if anyone would like to follow your journey,
• 54:03
  I'm sorry, this one's so lame.
• 54:04
  And you all want to see what you're doing
• 54:06
  and keep an eye on the work that you're doing
• 54:08
  and the house is your flipping.
• 54:09
  At Handy Honey.
• 54:10
  Handy Honey on Instagram.
• 54:12
  Handy Honey.
• 54:13
  I reckon you should get like a honey necklace or something.
• 54:15
  You know, like it's such a cool brand.
• 54:17
  Get a little buzzy baby.
• 54:18
  Oh yeah.
• 54:19
  Yeah.
• 54:20
  Well, thank you very much for having me.
• 54:22
  This conversation was brought to you proudly
• 54:25
  by Trady Property, a partnership
• 54:27
  that we are super, super proud and excited about, to be honest.
• 54:31
  And look, who knows how long this is going to go on for,
• 54:34
  because we're not quite sure what's happening
• 54:36
  with my pre-approval.
• 54:37
  Will it happen?
• 54:38
  Won't it happen?
• 54:39
  TBC will come back to that.
• 54:41
  But yeah, thank you so much.
• 54:42
  You should trade me for allowing us to have these conversations.
• 54:46
  And you know what?
• 54:47
  Whether you are looking for property now,
• 54:49
  or maybe in the future,
• 54:51
  Trady me have absolutely,
• 54:53
  without a doubt, hands down the most properties
• 54:56
  in anywhere else.
• 54:57
  So if you want to do a little dream scroll,
• 54:59
  and see what's available,
• 55:00
  then I would highly recommend dropping on.
• 55:02
  We will come back with part two of this conversation
• 55:04
  next Friday, so let's just hope
• 55:07
  there's some exciting updates.
• 55:09
  But in the meantime, have a look at Trady.
• 55:14
  Okay, quickly, the curve was created
• 55:16
  to empower and educate you about investing,
• 55:18
  but we are not financial advisors.
• 55:20
  Our platform exists for educational purposes only,
• 55:23
  and it doesn't provide personalized,
• 55:25
  investing advice for your individual needs,
• 55:26
  and should not be relied upon to make
• 55:28
  an investment or financial decision.
• 55:30
  And always remember to do your own research
• 55:32
  before making any investment or financial decision.
• 55:35
  We're here for any knowledge and support you need,
• 55:37
  but the final call is always yours.
• 55:39
  And thanks for being here.
• 55:40
  You got this.
• 55:41
  Yeah, we know you got this.