Latest / Recovery Chronicles / Recovery Chronicles Ep. 49 Bryan T.

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Recovery Chronicles Ep. 49 Bryan T. · Recovery Chronicles

• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Hello everyone. My name is Tom Reagan. I am a
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: licensed addiction counselor and a certified grief counselor for Hertview
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Foundation here in Bismarck and mad Dad, and welcome to
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: a program that we call Recovery Chronicles, heard every week
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: at this time. It's also podcast on the Radio Access website.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: But every week we interview a person in long term
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: recovery and a very very special guest this week, and
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: his name is Brian Thomas, and not only is he
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: in long term recovery, but he runs the Sober Living
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Home or the Sober Living House for Hope Manner here
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: in Bismarck, and he's been doing that since October fifteenth,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: twenty and sixteen. So Hi and welcome, Welcome, Thanks, thanks
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: for having me. Yeah, welcome to the program. Brian is
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: a person in long term recovery, as I said, and
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: let's first talk about your addiction and recovery and then
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: we'll move on to Hope mannor so I think, and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I think you should get a little bit closer to
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the to the microphone there. But so tell me a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: little bit about your background and how and where you
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: grew up.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: So with my experience with addiction, I realized that it
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter really what your background is, your the parents
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: you've had. How are you from North Kosta. I'm from Bismarck,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: North Okay. Yeah. You know, looking back at my childhood,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I had an amazing childhood. You know. The worst thing
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: that probably happened to me was my parents split up.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: You know, but in that case, it was an ideal situation, right,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: They they both got along, and you know, I have
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: wonderful step parents now, and wonderful my mom and dad
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: are wonderful people. They get along as well. They're both remarried,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: you mean, yeah, yep, you know, so it was like
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the perfect scenario for a divorce, right you know. So
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: how old were you when they broke up? It was
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: pretty six.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's a pretty tender age for something like
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: that to happen.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, what I'm trying to get is
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: that that's probably the worst thing that's that's ever happened
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: to me in my life. Right, I don't really have
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: any external circumstances that would kind of cause me to
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: use alcohol or drugs. So what I'm trying to get
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: is that recover the disease of addiction does not discriminate.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: You know, you either have it or you don't. You know,
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  Speaker 2: I've grown up. I struggled with a lot of you know,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: some some mental illness, uh like depression and anxiety, and
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: and throughout my whole childhood, I I felt I felt
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: a little different from everybody else, and you know I
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: would parents were putting me in in counseling. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: I've seen all the psychologists and town psychiatrists, uh, you know,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: different medications. But when I discovered alcohol and drugs, you know,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I found that that was what felt like the solution
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: to my problem.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: You hear that a lot, and I'm sure you hear
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that a lot at at Hope mannor we we certainly
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: hear that a lot in the addiction counseling field, including
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  Speaker 1: I felt different from everybody else as a child, and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I I know I did, and maybe similar to yourself, boy,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of anxiety, a lot of fears.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: As So, when did you start using? When did you
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: find drugs or your drug of choice or.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: You know it's I've heard other people say this like
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: they don't they don't remember the first time they ate
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: an apple. You know, I do remember The first time
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  Speaker 2: I drank Jack Daniels, it was out of a flask
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: in my buddies parents' basement. You know. We were fifteen,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: sixteen years old. And once I took a swig of
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: that Jack Daniels, I felt that release I've been looking
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: for my whole life, you know, and now I felt
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: like a belonged to a group of buddies, you know.
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  Speaker 2: So I felt like I found my purpose in life,
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  Speaker 2: and that was to drink. And this is what is
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: going to create my happiness from, you know, the the
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  Speaker 2: internal brokenness that I have.
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  Speaker 1: How what did you say you were in junior high
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  Speaker 1: or high school at the time.
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  Speaker 2: I goes, yes, press sophomore year probably.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so so the so maybe the first drug for
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: you was alcohol?
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  Speaker 2: Yep? Alcohol, Yes, you kind of stick with that for
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  Speaker 2: a while or I did, uh, you know, I moved
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  Speaker 2: on to you know, marijuana and alcohol. I I dabbled in,
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  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of opiate painkillers. I believe there
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: was something divinely that kept me from the harder stuff.
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  Speaker 2: I was very curious on what it was.
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  Speaker 1: But now when you say harder stuff, we better we
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: better define that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, for the folk, I'm talking more of the you know, methamphetamine,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: heroin and stuff like that. You know, I've I and
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  Speaker 2: shooting another words, jet I stayed away from that. I
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: had a I had a stint of of methamphetamine use
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  Speaker 2: for about about a week, and uh, I ended up
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: in the psych word and I said, you know that
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  Speaker 2: that's enough.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Wow, Well so you you kind of had a psychotic episode.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you take me who I'm naturally a nervous
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  Speaker 2: disposition and you put me up without sleeping for a while.
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  Speaker 2: I don't do well? Who does I mean?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: And then you mentioned opioids or painkillers.
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  Speaker 2: You know it?
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  Speaker 1: I also when I the few times I've ever taken
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: them because after surgery and such, I also experienced euphoria.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: But a lot of people, even even a lot of
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: our patients at heartfew say, oh I can't stand that stuff.
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  Speaker 1: I hate pain killers. Just make me tired, make me,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: make me, give me nausea. But what did you get?
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: What did you get out of the paint?
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  Speaker 2: That was not my story? Yeah, I remember I had
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I got a kidney infection and I was I think
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I was probably fifteen, sixteen years old, and I, you know, parents,
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  Speaker 2: Mom took me to the doctor and you know, you
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: have a kidney infection. I have severe back pain. And
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: at that time I didn't know what he was prescribing me.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't really know what they were, and I didn't
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: take them because I didn't know what they were. And
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know what happened. Out of curiosity or something.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I saw them sitting on the table, I'm like, well,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: maybe I should just try it. Yeah, and you know,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I consumed it, and within twenty minutes there again, I
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: felt that release from the what I thought was the
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: strands of life, you know, the constant thought, the worry
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I don't fit in, you know, what's wrong with me?
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: But at that age, you just you don't know.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you so you had that that euphoria.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: So when did they start getting you into trouble the drugs, alcohol,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: et cetera.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, in another case, I didn't have I
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: don't have a and I'm grateful for it, but I
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: don't have a lengthy hyminal criminal history.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Uh.
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  Speaker 2: No felonies, No, no felonies, you know, you know, three
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: minor possessions and a disorderly conduct related to alcohol use.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: But other than that, I am actually very fortunate for
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: that the Usually I always call myself I'm a I'm
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: a psych word guy, because you know, some people all
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: call them drugs lead them to jails and prisons, But
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  Speaker 2: for me, I always ended up in the psych word
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  Speaker 2: or the R.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's my story. Yeah did didn't? Did drug use
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: affect your grades?
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  Speaker 2: You know? I I've always been really good at adapting
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  Speaker 2: to life and just kind of like making things work,
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  Speaker 2: you know. I guess that's kind of my controlling nature
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  Speaker 2: that can come out of somebody who is in it
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  Speaker 2: addicted to the drugs and alcohol. We like to control
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  Speaker 2: situations and and and for me, what I would always
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: try to do what I was, I'd always try to
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  Speaker 2: control my external circumstances, so my disease of addiction didn't
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  Speaker 2: look that bad. You know. So throughout my whole using,
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  Speaker 2: I always tried to, you know, hide it from my parents,
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  Speaker 2: hide it from the surrounding people that know me, so
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  Speaker 2: that I don't look like I have a problem. Did
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  Speaker 2: you go to school high ever? Is that a question? No,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: it's not a dumb question. I I smoke weed before
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  Speaker 2: school at lunch afterwards. You know, my my high school,
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  Speaker 2: my high school was I don't think I went put
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  Speaker 2: it this way, I could not go a day without
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: consuming something to change the way I feel.
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  Speaker 1: Now, did that start in junior higher high school?
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  Speaker 2: End of junior highland into high school?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? And and as you said, you're you're from Bismarck, and
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  Speaker 1: how and how old are you now?
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  Speaker 2: Thirty three? So you so what year did you graduate
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  Speaker 2: from high school? Two thousand and four?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, and you graduated? I did? Did you go on
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  Speaker 1: to college?
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  Speaker 2: I did? You know? And at that time I was
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  Speaker 2: working for the family business.
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  Speaker 1: I was working for my dad, you know, so you
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: don't have to say the business. I'm not going in
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  Speaker 1: what in what field? Was the you know, the service industry,
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  Speaker 1: you know, contracting?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. So I think it's kind
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  Speaker 2: of natural for and I was the only son, so
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  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of natural for the only son
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  Speaker 2: to think that I need to take over the family business. Sure,
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  Speaker 2: so that was wayne heavy on me. You know, I
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  Speaker 2: felt all this pressure but realizing at the same time
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  Speaker 2: that's not really what I enjoyed or wanted to do.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, my dad is an amazing person, but
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  Speaker 2: him and I are different in aspects of life. Right,
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  Speaker 2: So yes, I did go on to college, and I
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: kind of did what you know, my father suggested I
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  Speaker 2: do because I did have interest in the company and
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  Speaker 2: this is what I should have done to take it over.
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  Speaker 2: So I went to school for engineering and I made
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: it I think two months in and got overwhelmed and
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: then you know, crawled back into what continued use of
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: alcohol and drugs.
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  Speaker 1: Did you go to bs C here or did you
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: go go out of town so here?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's where here's where my story gets to, where
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I quote unquote hit my first rock bottom. I uh,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: so I finished. I went to school at b AC
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: for two years. Then I was going to finish my
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: college up at U Indy and then I uh two
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: years at b C. Continued drinking hard, you know, back
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: to the the anxiety, you know, the stress of school.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: It was it was too much for me, you know,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: so I would I'd drink in the morning before class.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: You know, there's oftentimes where I would leave school because
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: I was so anxious just to drink so that I
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: could shut my mind off. And mostly at this point
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: of my drinking, I just wanted I didn't want to live,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: but I didn't want to die. I was always I
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: was never really suicidal, but I did. I didn't want
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: to be awake, you know, so I would drink to
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: fall asleep so I don't have to feel yep. So
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I completed two years of college at b C. Actually
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: did pretty two years, very good. And then I was
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: gonna I planned on moving up to Grand Forks to
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: go to U and D and I followed through with that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: In my mind, this was a scary point for me
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: because when I was living at home, I tried to
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: control my drinking to a point so my parents would
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: stop nagging me. Yeah, so I would try to hide it,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this this was your did you live with
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: your father and stepmother or the other mother and mom instead?
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And then I knew once I left the house,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to go to move to Grand Forks,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: game on, Yeah, I have nobody we've heard this before. Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to school for I wasn't going to
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: college for an education. I was going there to drink. Yeah.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: And I moved up there August eighteenth of two thousand
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and six. I believe school started the twenty second. My
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: twenty first birthday wasn't August twenty first. I just wanted
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: to reach that twenty first birthday. Yeah, and I did.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And what do you mean you just wanted to reach
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: that for some you know, I mean for me, that's
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: like that was like my ultimate goal. I just want
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: to I want to be twenty one so I can
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: go drinking bars.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wanted to experience out that lifestyle. I
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: didn't make it very far. The day after my twenty
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: first birthday, ended up in a psych ward in Grand
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Forks and I actually got admitted to a psych unit
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: for a month. Yeah. I was at this point, I
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: was suicide on express some thoughts of hurting myself. Yeah.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you did you voluntarily commit yourself so
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: to speaker.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So my twenty first birthday was in August twenty first.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: The twenty second, I woke up in the morning and
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: school was supposed to start, Yeah, and I woke up
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: in alcohol withdrawal and obviously couldn't make it to class.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I reached out to a friend of mine who I
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: knew she is supportive, and I called her. I'm in
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: my apartment and I said I need help, and she
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: took me to a school counselor. And it sounded like
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I was gonna harm myself. So then they put me
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: into a psych center up there. Sure, yeah, so.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: You did obviously you reached out for help.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it wasn't. Uh, that's not the end of
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the story. Yeah, so keep going. Let's see. I got
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: out of that psych unit, and now they had me
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: on multiple medications, which I generally didn't need to be on, right.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I understand that the importance of of some you know,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: medical help, but with.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: That primarily for depression and anxiety, yea.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: But to be on on four different meds for for
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: what I'm dealing with was kind of you know, in
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: excess of that. You know. So I left that place.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: But the thing I didn't address to them and be honest,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: was my drinking. You know. I did mention that drinking
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: has been a part of my life and it has
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: been a problem. But I drink because I am depressed
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and anxious. So then you know, they're not gonna treat
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: the alcoholism. They're gonna treat what I'm telling them that
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I'm dealing with it. It was it wasn't. It wasn't
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: an addiction center, right, So that's not what they're doing.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: They're trying to treat somebody with anxiety depressions. So what
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: happened is I I left there and I remained sober
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: for I think about three days. And so now I
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: got bottles full of pills and I started drinking on them,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and I start going into blackout. And now I'm starting
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: you know, I call it time traveling. I missed a
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: few days. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. So then I
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: got into some some legal trouble yep, open ground forks,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and that's the first time I honestly cried out for
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: help that I need to stop drinking. Okay, what was
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the legal trouble or it was disorderly conducted a concert
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: because of confrontation with somebody. Yeah.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I want to remind people that our guest today is
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Brian Thomas, and he's a person in long term recovery.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: You're thirty three thirty.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Three years old, and he runs the sober living home
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: in Bismarck here for a hope manner. So we're going
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: to talk to him about that too.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: It sounds like.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: What you were doing in your youth, in your college days,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: there was self medicating and and I'm not sure everyone
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: is familiar with that term, but I think a lot
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: of self medicating goes on, don't you y You know
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: in the addiction world that so many addicts that's the
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: way they begin because of anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, or trauma,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: all sorts of all sorts of reasons. And so, uh,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: that's what happened to you. So, uh, you finally reached
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you finally knew you had to make a change.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: So that, yeah, that that begins the well, the beginning
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: of my experience in recovery, because at this point I was,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: you know, I've learned that that you know, in the
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: recovery world, we hear the term rock bottom a lot,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: you know, and I've learned that that rock bottom is
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: is internal not external. You know, we're done when we
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: when we're done, it doesn't matter if we have a
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: nice house, car, you know, married, or if we're in
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: the gutter or in the gutter, you know it. You know,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: it's I've heard this quote too, doesn't matter if you're
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: in the dope house or the white house. All right,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: it doesn't it doesn't matter, right the uh, you know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: So I reached out for help, and I came back
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: to Bismarck, and I entered my first treatment center.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, and I presume it did some good and it
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: stuck for a while. How long did you stay?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Actually, uh, you know, I got in there and
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I got you know, I got on the proper medication
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: that was necessary at that time for things I in depression.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I actually I felt really really good. You know. I
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: got introduced to you know, the recovery community, you know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: twelve step programs, and I was I was involved. I
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: did what was suggested. I got a sponsor, I got
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: a home group, I got a commitment at that group.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: You know, at this time, I'm what twenty one years old,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and and I'm opening up the doors and I'm making coffee,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I'm meeting with my sponsor. I remained sober for about
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: a year and a half. But I think, I think
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: what happened is if I got bored mm hmm, complacent
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: board in coomplacent, and you know that I remember, I
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: remember vaguely the that morning. I didn't wake up and
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: think that I'm going to drink today. What happened was
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I actually went to one of the recovery meetings, and
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: during that meeting, for some reason, I had this fleeting
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: thought that I kind of want to drink, and I
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: didn't do what I was supposed to, which was reach out.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: You know. So once that thought was implanted in my head, now,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: if I don't get it out, it's going to manifest
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to talk myself into doing it and
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I'm going to justify why it's okay to drink. Yeah, So.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: You needed to reach out and help others or continue
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to help others.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there was you know, there was there was
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: some missing links and what call the program or recovery
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: that I didn't fall through it, you know, and I
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: got bored with sobriety. I wasn't. I was just kind
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: of isolating still, you know, I was going to meetings,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: but I was isolating at the same time. You know,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: if I'm bored in recovery, why stay sober? Right? Yeah?
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And what were you doing in the meantime to make
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: a living or to be with family or.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: At this point, I father let me come back and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: work for him, So I was. I was working there,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: working for the family business, working for the family business,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: and the up until my sobriety date now, which is
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: October fifteenth of sixteen, I first was introduced to a
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: program recovery in two thousand and two thousand. When was
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: it two thousand and eight? You know, so you do
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: the math. I've been in and out for quite a while.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, and sometimes they're referred to as frequent flyers, you know,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: but you weren't that frequent.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: No, it's true. And then you know, so from that,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: from about two thousand and eight up until this recent
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: you know, the time I got sober in twenty sixteen,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I was in and out of recovery. I was in
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: and out of recovery groups and out a few more
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: treatment centers I've been to, you know, So I would
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: get sober, and here's what I would do. I'm still
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: trying to fix this internal problem with external stuff. I'm
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: chasing girls, I'm I'm chasing money. You know. I ended
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: up chasing thrills, Yes, something to make me feel good, Yes,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: And that stuff would only work temporarily, and then it
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: would wear off. And then guess when I'm left with me?
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: You know, when I'm when I'm driving up to my
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: new home in my nice car and I don't want
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: to live right right? Well, I know.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite recovery sayings is, no matter where
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: you go, there.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: You are, you are.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: So you just kept You just got the problem with
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: kept on meeting yourself no matter where you were.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: So I would throughout that time, I would you know,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I would get sober and I would remain sober for
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: about you know, three min and then go and fall
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: back off because I didn't do what was suggested in
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: the program recovery. You know, I would kind of take
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: bits and pieces and you know, I'll do this, but
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I'm not willing to.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Do sure, sure, yeah, this is you know, this is fascinating.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: So when did you finally yuh start changing internally? I
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: mean that was that was your the secret to your recovery, right.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So with the disease being progressive, it got worse
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: again mostly alcohol or a combination combination. So at this
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: point I'm I'm using a lot of alcohol. And the
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: thing with that is, though my body got damaged enough
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: by alcohol where I cannot metabolize it to the point
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: where I would drink two beers and I'd fall asleep.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: So now now I'm suffering, you know, with physical problems.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: My liver is not functioning the way it should be,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: either is my kidney. So you know I used to
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: be able to drink, you know, A leader of vodka
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: and go out and walk. My goodness, at this point,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: a pine of vodkas putting me to sleep. Yes, you know,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: so I'm experiencing the physical symptoms of alcohol and drug
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: alcoholism and drug addiction. Yes. So I I found through
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: a friend. He said, I think I was tired one
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: day and he says, try this, And I didn't even
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: ask what it was. I just took it and within
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: twenty minutes I had plenty of energy. And that was
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: it was adderall pharmaceutical and fetamine. Yeah. So then I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: got hooked on that, and I was doing that for
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: a while. So I was I was using the the
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: adderall to combat the effects of the alcohol so I
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: could still drink but not fall asleep. Interesting, yea, So
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I did that for about a year and then that's
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I crashed and burned again. Yeah.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: So so, like you said, so you were a frequent flyer, really,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you know, up and down and up and down and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: working on recovery and then not. But but you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: but I'm sure always knowing that one of these days
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: it was going to have to be permanent or else
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: you were going to die, right, I.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Mean, And that was and I reached that point. And
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: it was scary because I look back on my trek record.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I've been to three treatment centers. You know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: treatment is excellent for me. What what treatment did was,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: it was it I needed to be physically removed from
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: the substance or else I'm not going to stop. I
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: don't stop unless it's taken away.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: From So this was a so called residential treatment program
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: where you lived at the treatment center.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. I did three of those. Yes, with
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the disease of addiction being progressive. You know, now I'm
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: missing work. I'm going into two three day blackouts. I'm
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: missing you know, parents are looking for me, the cops
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: are looking for me, and I'm I'm in a blackout
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: wandering around town. Yeah, and I uh, this is prior
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: to coming into to Hope manner. I knew I was
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: in a bind. I wanted to star drinking, but I
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I didn't know where to go. Three I've been to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: three treatments. I didn't remain sore because I didn't do
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: what is suggested after you leave treatment. That's why it's
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: not that treatment didn't work. I didn't do what was
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: suggested after I left. So I knew treatment really wasn't
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: my answer. And I knew I could go back to
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the twelve step program, but I didn't. I didn't have
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: any sort of power to go. I didn't want to go.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: And I remember hearing that there was a men's sober
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: leaving house opening up. And this is right about the
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: time where I need help and I need it fast. Yeah,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And this is something I normally wouldn't do, is to
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: check into a men's sober leaving home and live with,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: you know, multiple other males, right, you know. But I
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: was drunk at the time, and I made the decision
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: to do it, and I said yes, And I arrived
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: at the home. Judith Jews Roberts, the founder founder of
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Whole Manner, did my intake, and uh, and you were
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and you were intoxicated at the time, or yeah, I
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: was coming off really heavy kind of I was going
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: through withdrawals. And she welcomed you with open arms arms
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: into the home. And here I am. I'm the first
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: resident of of Home Manner and.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: The first resident of the Men's which was at the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: time the new Men's And now you're you're running.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just I'm just a trusted member of the home.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: That kind of I'm the eyes and the ears of
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: the house, you know, and I'm a resident and I
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: lived there. So basically what I do is I do
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: you still live there? Yeah? I still live there. Yeh.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I just make sure that the guys are doing what
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: they're supposed to be doing. And I reported to Judith
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: and and uh, you know, it's it's been an amazing experience,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: not not just because of you know, I get to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: help others, but that place literally did save my life. Yeah.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: And and we're gonna uh uh you know, for for
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: the very first time, we're going to record a one
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: hour long program here and we usually this is a
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: half an hour. We're going to spend most of the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: rest of the time talking about Hope Manor. Now and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: we're at about the the the half hour point, by
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: the way, but we're talking to Brian Thomas, person in
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: long term recovery and uh and he's living at the
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: uh uh the Sober the men's sober living house for
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Hope Manner. So what made the difference at Hope Manor,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, and what when did you arrive at working
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: on yourself internally?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Uh? What what changed was? I think? I was, you know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: alcohol beat me into a state of reasonableness. You know, now,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I think I'm ready to surrender everything that I thought,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: everything that I own at this point. I own a
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: nice home. I was at a job where I was
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: making close to six figures. I was selling cars at
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: the time, and I was doing well there. So coming
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: into the home, I had all this stuff. And when
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I got into the house, the disease kind of started
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: creeping in and saying, do you have all this stuff
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: you need to maintain? You can't be here. You need
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: to You can do this on your own. You can
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: go back to your house and go back to the job,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: the same thing that was basically killing you before. But yeah,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I surrendered. I basically lost all that stuff, got rid
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: of it. Yes, and I surrendered to what the program
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: of the twelve Steps suggests.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: And that's and surrendering was an important part of my recovery.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: And and and it's something we preach as addiction counselors.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm not sure everyone understands that concept,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: but you finally, one of the ways we put it is,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: you know, for a long time you control it, but
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: then it finally controls you. And the only way to
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: escape from that is to finally give up and surrender.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: You know, you've you've uh, you've lost control and you
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: have to admit the the unmanageability, the insanity.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And what what Hope Manner did was, for one, it
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: gave me a safe place to live. Mm hmm. The
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: house does not keep you sober, but what we suggest
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: you do will yeah, you know, get involved in the
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: recovery community. It's a requirement, it is, it is a
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: requirement to live there. You do you do these certain
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: things and and if you're not interested in recovery, the
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: house ain't gonna work for it. And I believe uh uh.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm gonna ask you about kind of the requirements
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and the rules of the house so to speak.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: But are you not required to go to a support
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: group meeting every day? Yes? Yeah, you know, everybody is
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: required to go to a certain amount of meetings required
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to get the sponsor a home group and a commitment
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: at the recovery at the meetings and right, and what
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: what that helped me with was it reintroduced me back
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: into the solution. That's what whole matter did for me.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: You know, it gave me a nice, safe, beautiful home
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: to live in. So that I can just focus on
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: my recovery and at the same time living with other
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: men who are doing the same thing. So you're surrounded
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: in recovery NonStop. Yeah.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how many and how many are there now? I
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: mean how many or what's the average number of men
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: at the home?
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: It varies?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: How many can it? Can it put up? Okay? Yeah?
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: But anyway, you're living with a group of men. Are
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you meeting as a group of men every day or
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: or once in a while or is that is that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: one of the things that you do there?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, to talk to talk. It's more of
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: like a you know, like a community. You know, everybody's
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: kind of we all have one common goal and that's
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: basically to not die of addiction, right, but everybody, you know,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: it's it's kind of cool everybody. You know, they're required
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: to have a job, you know, reintroduce them back into
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the community.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Now you do pay rent, do you not? I mean
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: they have Yeah, they.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Have fees that they pay they pay monthly, yes, you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: so they're required to work. You know, it's just some
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: of these guys haven't had jobs for a long time, right,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: so so we walk them through that, you know, getting
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: applications and writing a resume, yeah, and showing up for interviews.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: You know. It's it's a beautiful thing to hear somebody
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: who has hadn't hadn't a job in two to three
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: years and now they're working. And a lot of these
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: guys ended up ended up being employees of the month
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: at some of these places that they're work. Nice. Yeah,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: because I mean you you you recover an alcoholic drug addict.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: We can be some amazing people.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well I could tell, I can I can
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: tell you're happy. I mean, you do seem to be
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a person at peace, you know, a person who has
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: some serenity. Uh, And we might want to define that
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: term as well, but do you feel you have serenity?
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am. And what is serenity? It's just calmness
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: and peaceless peace of mind, regardless of what's going on,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: because you know what, and you know this for being
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: in recovery as well. Once you get sober, it does
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: not mean that life's not going to hit us without it,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: you know. So it's it's kind of treading through those
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: waters of hard time but also being kind of okay
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: with it, you know, like this is just gonna work out, sure,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and it always does. Yeah, I mean life is life.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I know who don't know what, and now I can
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: deal with it. You know, when I get hit with something,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: my first thought isn't I want to get drunk or high?
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: My first thought is what can I do about this?
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I have a lot of tools that I
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: can use.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I had a a mentor sponsor. Every single time I
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: was with him or we were all with him, he
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: always said, it is what it is, and that's and
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: that there's just so much wisdom in that. And of
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: course now I have a coffee mug that says it
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: is what it is life, Life is life. And I
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: love the what the French saying, and that is say
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: levee and that just means that's life.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: And isn't that something?
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: And you know, our family, we lost a daughter at
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the age of twenty one and in a single car crash,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: and thank god, at the time I was in recovery
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: and I did not find it necessary to drink or
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: to use which is kind of a miracle.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: But that's life.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen tonight or tomorrow,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: but you know, you just have to hope that that
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: you're going to be strong enough, you know. So let's
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I've got I've got two pages of questions about let's
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: get to the crow.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: About Hope matter.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, and so, uh, when you're explaining to someone,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: And first of all, home matter is a beautiful thing.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: And I remember when Judith Roberts founded Hope Matter. What
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: is Hope Matter? We use the term halfway house for example.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Is that a good definition? What is?
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: It's the act exactly oppositely, it's a we call it
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: a recovery home. You know, we're We're not. We don't
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: house people. What we do is we house people who
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: want to stay, get sober and remain sober, you know,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: a recovery community community people with the same interest, you know.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: So we we supply the necessary tools to do so. Yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember, and I don't know if you
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: can answer this question or not, but I remember when
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Judith Roberts established Hope manner, and she kind of patterned
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: it after some recovery houses in California. Uh, do you
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: remember what do you remember what the names of those
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: of those recovery centers.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: It was a point a house in Covina, California.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, and and and I think, you know, so hope manner.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Was patterned after correct correct, you know, and Puente Pointe House.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and I think adopted some of the same yes,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you know, rules and regulations and things like that.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: So yeah, they know. So it's structured after the point
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: To House in California. And Judith knew this gentleman who
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: started that home. And I think upon a conversation, like
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: you need something like this up here, and and he's like,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I think you're the person to do it, you know.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: And and Judith is an amazing person and the perfect
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: person to do it.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I've met her on numero occasions, and uh, she is.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: She is a person in long term recovery. And she's
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: been to open about that. She is an attorney, and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that helps her very much.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So you know, getting things done, you're not getting nothing
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: by her.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: And now and now there are three homes, right, three
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: houses in Bismarck.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there there's a men's home, yeah, a women's home,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: and then what they call the women's and children's home
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: are for you know, a single mother who has children
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: so that I can live there. And then they have
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: one in Jamestown as well, a men's house. Oh yeah,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah, that's a that's it's infant stage. It's
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: it's it's really it's brand new. Well, yeah, that's wonderful.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I know at least one person out of that way
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: in in in the Jamestown house. How far and how
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: far back? Does when? What year was it founded? Do you?
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I can't. I can't give you a date. I'm not
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: sure it was. She just started the women's house. I
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: can't write you a date.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And I and not too long after it was found.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I know I wrote a story about I should have
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: brought that. I wrote a magazine story about it. I
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: could have brought that story along, but not that. It's
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: that And what's most most important is that there are
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: now three uh Hope Manner homes. And uh, do you
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: know how many people you served at all, just over
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the years. I don't know, hundreds, probably probably.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I don't have the demographics I say, I don't. I
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: don't handle any of of of that sort of stuff
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: with the home. I'm just the eyes in the ears
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: of the house, and and I just just make sure
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: the guys are doing what they're supposed to.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: What are the requirements to get in, I mean to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: be accepted.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: So there's a you know, there's a there's an interview process.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I don't do the interviews, uh, Megan, the administrator does then,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: you know, so show media so they reach out to
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: us through online applications or word of mouth or phone,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: you know, and she'll go do the interview process and
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: it's it's lengthy. And basically what I'm trying to determine
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: in the interview process is if you are truly interested
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: in being recovery. You know, some you know, some of
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: the some of the guys that come in, you know,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: sometimes they they're interested, but they're kind of unsure. Maybe
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: they just want to get out of legal trouble. But
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: the beauty of it, though, is is in my experience
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: on living in this house and watching some of those
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: guys come in who are just aren't sure if they
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: really want recovery more or just to get out of
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: some trouble. But to watch them watch the lights come
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: on and and see something change, and all of a sudden,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: they're they're in recovery. Now They're not just doing it
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: to get out of trouble, you know, so so now
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: they're being reintroduced back into society. You know that they're working,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: they're you know, paying taxes, they're you know, making financial
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: amends to people that they stole money from, you know,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: just just making things right and and live in a
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: productive life. And they don't have to walk around the
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: street looking over their shoulder anymore.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Have to have cash to get in. That's no, you said,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: they have to be working, you know.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Obviously when we decide to quit doing drugs or alcohol,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: most of the time we don't have a job and
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: we don't have any money right right, you know, so
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: they do they'll they'll float you, but you're gonna tally
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: up a balance and and you know, it's creating responsibility,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: you know, and they just pay the balance off once
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: they get the job.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: We may have listeners right now who are saying to
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: themselves this sounds great. If someone wants to inquire further,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: who should they call or get a hold of.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can go on the on the website
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Wholemanner dot com. I believe that's the website. What do
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: you do? Just go do a Google search on Homegunner.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: All the contact information will be on there. You can
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: do an online application on as well, or you can
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: just simply call and say that you're interested in coming in.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: And I know there's a Facebook page. There's a Facebook
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: page as well. Any other requirements to get in that
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: you can think of. You don't have to be a
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: resident of bis Market, No, you don't necessarily.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: No, We've had people fly from all over the United States. Interesting.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you so you've been the running this house,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: you know, being the eyes and ears, as you say,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: of the house since October fifteenth, twenty sixteen.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: That's actually that date, is uh, that's the that's the
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: day the house opened up, and that is my sobriety. However,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: at that time I wasn't the manager. Sure, there was
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: a there was a manager and assistance at the house.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: So once they completed their their commitment, and then I
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: moved into assistant first, and then I moved up to
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: what they call the manager. I'm not a I'm not
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: a paid employ All I do is I volunteer my time.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Why have you so, why have you stayed you know,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and why did you, you know, so to speak, take
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: the job as as the.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: That's a that's a good question. So what we do
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: recommend is that a residence stay for for nine months
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: and statistics in so believing have showed once you stayed
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: nine months. I believe it's something of it like a
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: seventy five percent success rate, which is very high, fantastic,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: It's very high. Yeah. So obviously I've exceeded the nine months.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I'm coming up on two years and in four months. Yeah,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: And why have I stayed this long? The reason being
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: is that I've lived a selfish life my whole time.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: My whole life, it's it's always been about Brian. I
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: do what I want. I'm very rigid in my schedule,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: but that has never really served me. Well, you know,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: it's it's my way or the highway. You know, we're
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: gonna do this, and we're gonna do it at this time.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: But what the house has taught me is that it's
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: no longer all about me. And you know, that is
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: a concept that I struggled with and I still can
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: today struggle with. But that's I think that's why I
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: remained There's because I'm I'm teachable and I'm willing to
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: have this selfishness removed, you know, and work on the
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: opposite of that, which is being selfless.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: You know. So you're really talking about the spiritual side
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: of things, giving back and living unselfishly and helping others
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: is really the spiritual side of recovery, which which we uh,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: you know, recovery coaches or addiction counselors always talk about it.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't think you can. I personally don't
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: think you can have full recovery or equality recovery without
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: building that spiritual side. And I'm sure it sounds like
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: this is what you have found.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's I mean, remaining you know in the
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: spiritual program and the importance of doing that, especially in
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: a position where I'm and because you know, so I
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: am the eyes in the ears of the house. You know,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: sometimes it does get difficult and I have to handle
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: some pretty difficult situations, you know. Can you give an example, uh,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: you know, if someone have it, Yes, some he relapses,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: somebody doesn't show back up at home, We have to
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: kick somebody out because of drug or alcohol use. You know,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: we experience the death, you know, So walking through those
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: things and at the same time trying to you know,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: maintain my recovery. The beauty of this, though, is that
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I get to practice these principles and all my affairs
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: at the home NonStop, yeah, you know, I don't know.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I would I don't know if I wouldn't have experienced
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: some of the things I have as far as spiritual growth,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: if I would just lived in an apartment by myself,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I hear you.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, and that's what That's the way I feel
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: as a classic, as a counselor. This has gone so fast,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you know, we've got about fifteen minutes left. Is none amazing,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, and then it'll be an hour. But I
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: want to say again that our guest is Ryan Thomas,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: and he's a person in long term recovery. And you're
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: listening to recovery chronicles on radio Access and.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Brian is the eyes and ears of the.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Men's House the uh for for Hope Manner and the
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: men's living living quarters or.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I know that.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: So what's an average day like if there is such
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: a thing, you know, for for one of your residents residents?
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, the uh so an average day?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: So you everybody is assigned a chore. When you, for one,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: when you walk into this home, you would never guess
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: that that amount of men live there. It is clean,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: it smells good, everything is organized, and that's just the
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: standard that we want to maintain right nice because ultimately,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: when we have a new guy walk in, we want
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: him to walk in and feel like safe.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: We don't want clutter all over the place. It should
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: smell bad, right right, you know, So we maintain it.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: And the reason or how we maintain it is everybody
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: has to be up by nine thirty and before nine thirty,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: your beds have to be made and your chore has
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: to be done. Yeah, So that that's the resident. After
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: the chores are done, I go through and I inspect
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: the chores, you know, and if if the chores aren't
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: done up to standard or part then there's now are
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: you still working outside? Yes?
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I help manner, Okay, okay, yep, So yeah, you are
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: you working part time or full time?
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: It's part time, you know. There I do have an
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: assistant assistant that helps me out as well, so we
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: alternate case. So basically, I've I got a I got
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: a full schedule. You know, I'm either at the house,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: I'm you know, managing the operations of that, or I'm
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: at work.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's so what's the rest of your day?
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: So if with the resident, so the rest of the
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: day is well, Let's say you are new and you
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: don't have a job yet. You're required to get two
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: job by applications a day.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: At this point, some of that's on foot tall bet
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: if they yeah, if.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: They don't have a vehicle, yeah, and and and sometimes
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: we're lucky enough to have some residents who have vehicles
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: which will give back and help the the the new,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: the new guys to get around, you know. So they're
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: required to get the job applications to get a job,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: they're required to go to you know, two meetings a day.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: You know, at this point they have to hit four
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: you know, fourteen meetings. Meta, they have to have fourteen
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: meetings a week. You're sure, unemployed, Sure, because what else
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: are you gonna do? That's you know, get get into
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: get into the recovery. Yep. So then you know the jobs,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: job search. You know, there are certain meetings that are required.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: You know, they do some some fellowship. You know, we
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: just just hang out, Yeah, have a good time.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: But I'll bet you've made.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: A lot of friends I have, you know, and I'll
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and I'll bet you've uh just knowing you for the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: short time that I'll bet you've really mentored a lot
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: of a lot of men, young and old, and and
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've been a positive force, you know, in
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: their lives, and.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope. So here's the thing is that they
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: helped me as well. Sure, yeah, because when they come
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: in fresh, he reminds me of what it looks like,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: it reminds you of how it feels. But then I
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: can use my experience to help them. You know, hey, dude,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I've been through the same thing. You know, when I
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: first got here, I wanted to run to but I
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: stayed and look, you know, right not I say, look
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: at me now, But you know, I'm I'm sober, and
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: I'm yeah, I'm pretty happy. Yeah.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I mean you, if anybody is, you are in long
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: term recovery. I mean that doesn't you know long term
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: recovery is not thirty days or I mean, more power
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: to you if you're if you've been sober for thirty
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: days and you're working on it. But what do you
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: want the average person who lives in Bismarck Mandan to
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: know about addiction? And in Bizmarck Mandan, you know what,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: what do you want people to know about addiction?
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Right here where we live, it's real and it's bad,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: you know, with the uh, especially with the ages that
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: I'm noticing. Who are you know, getting introduced to recovery
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: at a young age. You know, the other day I
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: was helping out a gentleman who was fifteen years old.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, isn't that amazing? I mean, to be
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: fifteen years old and to be at a point where
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I want to stop already. You know, I look back
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: at when I was fifteen, I was just getting started.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to get is that just the
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: you know, I think I believe alcohol continues to kill
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: more people than any other drug.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: But alcohol is still number one, number one.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but with the influx of the the op
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: opiate's and fentanyl and and methinfetamine being introduced into the schools,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: it's happened a lot quicker.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what I tell people, and you know, when when
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: they asked me about being an addiction counselor or about
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: drug use and bismarck Man, then I say, well, alcohol
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: is still number one. Uh right now, the painkillers, the
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: opioids are a strong number two and really getting worse.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Let's hope it tops out soon.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: But uh and and then I say, and by the
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: way meth never went away. And uh, and smoking pot
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: it leans to call it pot in my day, but
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: you know you're smoking or using cannabis, UH is growing.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: But the you know, the ultimately you know that you
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: got the devastation, but then you have hope that that's
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: been you know, the different organizations within Bismarck that are
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: doing a good job with helping people who want to
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: get sober, you know, and and we're just we're just
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: a small part of it. And I believe we do
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: it well, you know, for the the amount of help
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: that we offer in the type of environment that Hope
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Matter does offer. You know. So along with a lot
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: of the the bad stories that people here, there is
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: actually recovery going on as well right now.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: You know, which is which is why I think think uh,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons for this program.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: And you know why we call it Recovery Chronicles.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: It's it's a program of hope.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Uh. And we want people to to hear that recovery
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: is is a possible, be that it's real, see that
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: there is a methodology to it that means, you know,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: which which reminds me and I'm looking at at our
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: time here, what what are your secrets to recovery? What
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: are what are some of the you know, your top
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: three secrets to recovery?
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: All right? That sounds like a doctor drug you know,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: but I understand. Yeah.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: What I'm gonna say is is I got to be
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: all in. You know, for one, I have to be done.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: You know, if if I'm still hanging on to reservations
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: that quite possibly there might be another hurrah with alcohol
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: or drugs, I'm probably gonna try it again, you know. So,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: like I said, rock bottom is internal. When I said
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I've had enough, I had enough, so I have to surrender,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: you know. So in my experience being all in is
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: you know, working a twelve step program that this is
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: my experience, you know, And what suggested and what I
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: do is you know, I have a sponsor that I
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: am in contact with. I go to meetings regularly, and
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm involved, yes, because I was. You know, people
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: who use and use drugs and alcohol involve themselves with
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: other people using drugs and alcohols. So now when you're sober,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: it's highly not recommended to go back and hang out
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: with those old people. Now, I need to find a new,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: a new group to hang out support group. Right, yes,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: So what I do is I get involved in the
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: recovery community and I remain there. I don't. I don't
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: dabble out and go hang out in the bar and
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: drink diet coke. That doesn't work for me. No, no,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: and it usually doesn't.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Know. And you know the expression if you if you,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: if you hang around the barbershop for too long, you're
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: probably going to get a haircut. Yes, so be you
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: to allowing you a bar is probably not a so you.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: So I assume then you have a social life and
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: with you know, with supportive friends and everything, and yeah.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, my life looks a little different
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: now because you know I do live in the home
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and yes, I'm with people NonStop, yes you know, yes,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: so yes I have a social life with that, you know.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing is, I will not be at
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Hope manner my whole life. You know, there's going to
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: be a point in time where I'm going to leave
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: and everybody else there is going to depart from there,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: you know. So what the most important thing is, you know,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: like they'd suggest when you leave treatment, here's the things
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: we suggest you do. You know, the same thing with
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Hope Manner. What we're trying to do is we're trying
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: to we're trying to train these guys' feet to do
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: the things that were recovery can grow and continue to grow.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: So we try to train their feet in the home
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: to do those things that I talked about being all in.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: And what you do is when you leave the house,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: basically you're just laying your head somewhere else, right sure sure?
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Uh? And that probably interrupted you with the other personal
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: secrets to your RETA Yeah, yeah.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I mean ultimately that that's that's the number one secret. Also,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: I need to have I need to have fun, you know,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I need to have fun. And that's the nice thing
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: about the fellowship of being in recovery is having fun,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: you know. And I have you know, having having an
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: interest in things. You know, I've found an interest in
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: traveling lately. You know, it's just I absolutely love it.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Where if you traveled recently, the biggest one was Australia October.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: And if you'd ask me, uh, two three years ago,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: if I would travel across seas on an airplane seventeen hours,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: I would say, you're crazy. And here's the thing is
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: I did it alone. But the thing is, though I
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: went there for a twelve step conference. Okay, so now
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I'm traveling to go to these things, yes, and the
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: same time and enjoy these experiences. And it was kind
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: of like a spiritual experience, just like hopping on a
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: plane alone and then going there. But once I get there,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: my family's there because I have people in recovery, I
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: hear you. I mean, I've done.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Over the last few years and I'm I'm so called
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: semi retired, and I've done some traveling with with one
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: of my sons, and last summer we were in England
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: and Ireland and Scotland. A couple of years before with
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: two of my with with my two sons, we we
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: went to Europe and and uh, you know, to be
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: able to do that with with your children, and and
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: to be able to do that sober, I mean if
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: I'd have if I'd have decided to relapse, I mean,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't remember half of it and I would probably
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: be locked up, you know. So it's it's just it's
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: a tremendous gift. I mean, sobriety and recovery you can
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: you can do different things and actually have enough confidence
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: in yourself that you're going to be able to get
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: through it.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and happy happily yeah. And one thing too,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: The last thing I'll say about that, like the secret
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: is you got to keep growing. You know. They just
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: because I have stopped using alcohol and drugs, it does
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: not mean that that disease is still within me. And
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: you know, they say doing push ups in the parking lot.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Right right, that your disease is doing push ups.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: In the parking right. It is, and it's ready to
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: kick my butt. You So, with the disease being progressive,
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: my cover recover needs to be progressive as well. And
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: I continuely need to be grown spiritually. Amen. Amen. You
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: know I saw.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Ben Affleck on TV the other day, probably Monday morning,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: maybe Tuesday morning. He was on the Today Show God
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: Bless them. He talked about his recovery, and you know,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: and I think when a guy like that talks about
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: his recovery, you know, people listen and I give a
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: lot of credit for and that's you know what, That's
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: exactly what he said. U. He talked about he has
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: to pay attention to his recovery every single day and
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: he has to work at it. And and what I
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: say what I tell patients is we who are in
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: recovery are now or now have the responsibility of being
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: on a lifelong program of improvement of self and seeking wisdom,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: you know, and working on ourselves.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: And so we got to remain teachable.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Remain teachable, I love. Yeah, we we can't afford to
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: spin our wheels or to take a step back.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: We all do. I'm sure you've had this experience too.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: When you do lay down the spiritual tools, you get
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable very fast, right, Yeah, you know, and there are
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: times where you know, and complacency. You cannot get complacent,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: because that's what happens is I get complacent. You know
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: what hell will happen is I'll get in a period
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: of where I start feeling really good, so I'll stop
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: doing the things that made me feel good or you know,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: experiencing positive benefits of it, and then so I'll stop
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: doing it. I think that's for me, that's my natural makeup,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: where I'll start doing that and I think it's really uncomfortable.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: And that's when that's the dangerous part of this is
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: is getting complacent doing the stop doing the things that
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: got you where you work.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: What else do you like to do, you know, and
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: you mentioned travel.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm kind of a homebody. I don't. I
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: always call myself I'm an introvert disguised as an extrovert.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: I kinda. I guess I'm one of those that don't.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I don't really need to feed off of other human interaction.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, I do realize that it's important
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: that I still involve myself with people. Right So I'm
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: still I'm still discovering on what you know, I like
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: to do as far as as far as hobbies and
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: what I enjoy it. You know, right now, I'm really
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: busy with with the home and work, so I don't
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: I don't have much time to go out and and
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: dobity things. But that's okay. It serves me well right now,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: you know, so more will be revealed, you know, I'm
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: still kind of figuring out who I am.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Sure, you know, as as we should be doing every
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: every day. You know, good thing you have an assistant,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: right so, yes, you can travel.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Or I mean, I I enjoy I enjoy working out.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: What I've also noticed too, is that in recovery is
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: this isn't just a you know, spirit, it's spiritual mentally,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: emotional and physical. You know. One of the things too
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: is I in the past, I'd get in recovery and
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't take care of myself physically, and I'd be
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: eating garb you know, just fast food every day, chain
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: smoking cigarettes, drinking four Red bulls a day. And for me,
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that isn't really no, it doesn't really recovery.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I'm still trying to hide something, you know. So I
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: mean taking care of my my physical health. I enjoy
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: working out because it helps me. It helps with the
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: anxiety that can come back still even in recovery. Right,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: so yeah, someone have some of those other things going away,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: the anxiety, the Yeah. Actually you know today I'm medication free.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Wasn't that Isn't that wonderful? That is what.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I've really enjoyed meeting you. And likewise we have
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: to wrap up. Our guest has been Brian Thomas, so
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: with with Hope Manner and maybe we can have you
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: back and we would like to have Judith on to
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: talk about Hope Manner, I mean in the future. So
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: thanks for everything you do and this has been a
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: fascinating program. Uh well, you know what we usually close
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: with the serenity. We do close with the serenity perfect.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: So let's let's pray that.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: And first, I want to thank you for having me.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: It's been wonderful. What a great what a great job
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: you know, uh to be doing this on Recovery Chronicles
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: every week. God grant me the serenity to accept the
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: things that I cannot change, the courage to change the
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: things I can, and the wisdoms to know the difference.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I thank you because I love the man.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: I know that some of you don't under stand, but
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: to keep from boder. I've seen the needle and the
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: damaged time, a little part of it in everyone, but
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: every junkie's like a sit inside