Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 094: Female Hunters

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Ep. 094: Female Hunters · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: So Carmen, Uh, what have you been doing? Are you
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: still a biologist? That's a good question. Really, it's like
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: up in the air. No, it's not up in there
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: at all. That's never been up in the air. But
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: as usual, I am just still patching things together. And um,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: let's see, since I was last year, since you were
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: last in this studio, in this studio, I spent a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: winter um helping on a new project that is happening
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: in Washington State. It's a big predator prey interaction project.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: So I'm already interested. Well. Um, so wolves have been
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: returning to Washington on their own, walking in um, just
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: like regular old animals, Just like regular old animals. Not ino, No,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: not in the back of trucks. Uh. They have four
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: legs and they can travel real far. Can you tell
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: peop where they're coming from? And my part of the state,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: in the Cascades, they're probably coming down from BC, whereas
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: over in the northeast of the state they're probably trickling
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: over from from Idaho, which are trickling over from the
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yellowstone re interduction right and yeah, or and south from
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: from Canada. Um Oh, so you think that some so,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: but if you think it's fair to say that if
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: you took if you look at Washington State, do you
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that some is definitely fair
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to say that some wolds are coming out of Canada
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: and would becoming regardless of the Yellowstone work from the nineties.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: But is it fair to say that some are coming
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: from the reintroduction work that happened in Yellowstone in the nineties,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: from them going into Idaho and then flowing over into Washington. Yeah.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: So anyway, this has raised questions about what might be
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: happening to um our ungulate populations. There's a big mule
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: deer heard in the Cascades in the Menhou Valley where
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I live. Um and so that's one of the steady areas.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: They're also looking at possible cougar wolf interactions, other interactions
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: with other like what happens when a wolf and a
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: cougar get together? Yeah, what happens when they're sharing the landscape? Um?
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And then over there's another study area over in the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: northeast area, and there they've got a lot more white
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: tail and elk, and so they're looking at interactions with
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: with um white tail and elk, and then also with
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: cougars and wolves over there and another smaller carnivores too.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: But to do all this, these animals need collars on.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So UM. Anyway back to what I did this winner,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I helped put collars on cougars and then we did
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: a deer capture effort so UM. So that was a
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. And then over the summer. Right now,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: how how is she? How you put them on? There?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: This is a good time for that. On what how
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you got the collars on the wolves and the cougars.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: The wolves already a lot of them already had have
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: callers on. The state does a continual monitoring, so the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: state's putting collars on. There was also some callers left
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: over from a project I was on a while ago
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: out of Washington State University UM looking at wolf predation UM,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and so there were already some callers on from that
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: project as well. So the wolves were that's kind of
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: an ongoing thing. UM. The cougars UM. A woman out
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of University of Washington. A PhD student is heading that
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: up and she's um working in both study areas, and
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: there's houndsmen in both study areas. Actually Bart George is
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: the one from the northeast with that guy. Well, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: haven't um, well, no that's not true. Worked with him
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: on the deer captures. But all right, I'll tell him
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: you got you got a problem with him anyway, houndsmen
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: that were incredible and their dogs that were really incredible
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: to work with. Um. So they we'd just go out
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: when there was um, you know, it was all snowy.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: So you're using this snow tracking snowmobiling around looking for
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: for cougar tracks. And then and um, if you find
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: cougar tracks that seem fresh, they load the dogs up.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: They had these cool little trailers stowmobile trailers to pull
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the dogs out there and set the dogs on them.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: And they would just work and and find those cats
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: and tree them and then set up nets around the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: tree and and dart. They can really to catch it
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: because they don't want it to get hurt falling out right,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: So you can set up these huge nets. Well net
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: isn't quite the right word. It's like a big canvas
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: thing and it's um, it's two of them, and so
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it's it's around the circumference of the tree. And then
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you stretch it out. It's probably a I don't know,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: ten or fifteen foot diameter. You've got a clear a
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: lot of brush for you string this net, probably if
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: there's brushing the way. Yeah, and then then you're pulling
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: it out and tying it off the trees um and
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: you're trying to guess, you know, where where it might
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: fall and and block any dangerous things like rocks stuff
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah. So anyway, the idea is that the
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: cougar falls into the net as it falls. But if
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't, if it gets hung up, then um, the
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: w df W biologist who was heading up the capture
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: would put on climbing hooks, climb up there and and
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: lower the cat down. So but usually it seems like
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: they fell out. That's easy from there. No, when you
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: hit the cougar with the tranquilizes are dark, how long
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: has it take before he dozes off? As long as
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: it was a good hitt and it got a good
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: dose and it got enough I don't know, maybe ten minutes,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: ten fifteen minutes, and this whole time the dogs are
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: just going nuts and you got to restrain those dogs.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: He'll tear it at you to restrain them. Yeah yeah yeah.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Is that done by like a rifle? Yeah, tranquilizes a gun,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Um and then the um So for capturing
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: mule deer, that was actually really fun. And one of
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the techniques for catching deer is to set up on
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: their winter range huge um nets, so hundreds of feet
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: of nets, um, and you set them up in topography
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that might sort of funnel them towards your nets. And
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: then um people hide in snow forts or whatever little
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: fort they can make amongst these nets are kind of
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: set up in in in rows and in various places,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: so his hiding. Meanwhile, I gotta understand the nets are
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: laid flat. No, No, they're standing up there probably I
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: don't know, ten feet tall and maybe strung together, so
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: they might be a couple hundred feet. Why they're like
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: if you had drift drift nets or something, so you
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: might have um, sort of layers of them like a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: like a stadium going down a drawer or something. So
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: you're hiding amongst the nets snow fort, maybe a white
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: sheet over your head or whatever, and um, meanwhile there
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: are helicopters or a helicopter driving around and they they
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: pick up deer and sort of slowly gently pushed them
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: towards the nets and the helicopters going and you're in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: your fort and you hear the helicopter and your heart
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: starts beating really fast, and all of a sudden, there's
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: deer just running right at you. They run into the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: nets and you had big giant box. They avoided that.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: They avoided that. It was winter so they didn't have
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: their antlers. But um, we were just coloring doughs like
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: you just wanted the dosh. Um. They leap into the net,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: they get stuck, You hop out of your fort and
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: um spoon them basically. So you you run up and
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: you start spooning them. Yeah, you straining up, big spoon,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: big spoon, um, and I mean you're latching yourself onto
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the back of the deer. Yeah. So they're they're probably
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: kind of down on the ground, you know, tang in
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: the net, and you come behind them. You don't approach
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: from the front, right right, you don't want to get clovered.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: You come from behind and sort of just give them
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: a big spoon hug thing, uh with your legs as well,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and you want I learned the hard way. You want
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: your your weight towards the back, um, because otherways they
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: can get their back feet under them again and they
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: can buck you. But um it actually I'm making it
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: sound harder than it was. No, I don't. I don't
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: think they No, I don't get that sense. I mean
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: it's like it's a strong animal. It's a strong animal.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: How how hung up in the fence are they? They
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: can get pretty hung up. So you so you spoon them,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you've got them, You're you're grabbing their their legs so
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: that they're not kicking once you've got it restrained people.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Yeah, yeah, just sort
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: of depending on the deer and how worked up they were,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I guess. So do you have your face just like
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: really tucked into the side of like the neck so
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: you're not yeah, or kind of in the shoulders so
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: you're not getting headbutted. Yeah, and so you're just you're
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: just yeah, it's like extremely cuddly with with this deer.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: How hook in one in one set where we were
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: we were, um, they were pulling in small groups of
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: maybe four four or five deer. Um. But we had
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of people and so dar it hit the nets.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Designated tacklers like myself, that was my job tackle the deer.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Then other biologists come put a face cloth on or
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: not like an I cover. They just chill right out.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Then right, they chill right out. And if they aren't
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: getting calm, and you know, they're monitoring their vitals that
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: their vitals seem a little higher or whatever, they can
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: be tranquilized to just help ease them through that where
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: your goals are not tranquiliz them. Um, it's a pretty
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: fast recovery if you don't, you know, because then they're
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: just going to jump up and hop away. It's pretty
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: fast recovery even with this particular drug. But um, it
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: was pretty easy to just restrain them really quick, slap
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a collar on, take some measurements, and then they just
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: go on their way. And what's their attitude when they
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: jumped back up again? M hmm, bewildered. I don't know.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: It looked like a little like whoa yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: but then they quickly pull it together and get out
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: of town. Ye exactly. Yeah. Have has anybody have any
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: of that? Have you guys been checking on any interactions
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: yet there's it too soon. Um. I'm not really a
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: part of that project right now, so I'm not completely
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: up to date. But you're just you were part of
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: the collaring but not part of the monitoring. So um.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, basically so they as of the end of
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: this summer, none of them had died from anything. My
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: husband actually almost hit one in his giant work truck,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: but almost one, yeah, exactly. Um, but otherwise as of
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: the end of the summer, they were doing Okay, I
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: talked about this before. They did a big collaring study
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: one time, um up near Juno, and they had a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: collard moose I believe it is a moose, not a caribou.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: A collared moose fell into a crevass. It was scavenged
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: by a collard grizzly that fell into the crevasse and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: died too. And then those carcasses were scavenged by a
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: collared wolverine. That's lots of collars, lots of stuff with
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: collars commingling. Yeah, that's very cool. That's kind of stuff
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: you'll be looking for the study. Yeah, but are there
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: issues in coloring these deer in because you're you're picking
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: them up and really like family groups. Right. Well there, Um,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: it's on their winter range, so they're pretty dense on
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: the range anyway. But that was one of the reasons
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: they were bringing in small groups. They pick off a
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: couple from a group because we didn't want to get
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: a bunch of callers in a group that's hanging out.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I had this very I've changed the story slightly because
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I don't want to give away information to anybody, but
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: who were having a very hard mule deer season in
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Idaho and we all, yeah, and pure curiosity. Everybody knows
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: a bunch of biologists and uh. A friend of mine
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: had called and the information that he got was, there
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: are only four color deer left in your unit. I
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: went out the next day and found three colored here
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: in one group. I was like, huh, what are the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: odds of that? That's like a thing doing this poorly
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: because I found all three in one spot at the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: exact same time. But Carmen can speak to this better
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: than I can. But that's, you know, the survey strategy
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: called mark and recapture. We'll be like, let's say you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: in Karmen craping where I'm wrong or add color to
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: this after I exp playing my understanding of mark and recrapture.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: But let's say you have a lake and you're like,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: how many while I are in here anyway, okay, and
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: you're going pull the scene through the thing and catch
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: a hunter walleye and put a tag in each walleye,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and then over the course of the weekend, you know,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: guys catch three hundred fish, including ninety walleye with a
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: tag in them. You'd be like, I have a pretty
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: good sense of how many wallye. Or in this lake
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: where we're catching in a sample size of three hund
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: we've got the collared ones. Or imagine you you tag
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: a hundred walleye and then people fish for three years
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: and pull hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of wally out
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: of the lake and no one ever finds one of
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: the tag in it. They're like, man, this shipload a
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: wall in this lake. Sure. So if you know there's
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: in the whole unit, right, there's four deer left with
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: collars and you go find three, I'd be like, amy
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: deer in this unit, yes, which was based on is
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the case? How's that? Was that a good job? Oh? Yeah,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: that's a good description of that. The only thing I
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: was going to say is that it might not have
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: been a Mark re capture that. I mean, there's a
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: lot of just thinking along the lines of migration corridor. Um,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: how these deer moving. Not all the deer moved from
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: one spot through one area to the next spot. So
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I was like, it seems odd to me that of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the colored deer left are in this very small little
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: hillside that I picked out. I want to clear, I
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: didn't mean that. I don't want you think I'm a dumbass.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean that as Mark catcher. I just meant
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: like as a way to say, like if I knew
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: there was four right, yeah, no, yeah, I get what
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: you're saying. I don't think you're dumb. I totally follow
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: that made total sense. I think this is just a
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: different situation. In my mind, it was probably a different question.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Who knows what the question was that they were putting
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: callers out there for. But so, no, they weren't doing
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: a bad job. I don't know. So because I'm like
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: trying to follow your career now, um, as a as
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: a budding is not the right word, as an up
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and coming field biologist. You're right, now, not like you're
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: not what are you doing right this second? I mean,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I know you're right right the second, but where are you?
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: What are you doing right now? Right now? So? Well,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: are you going to be working on another project? Yeah?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I have another one coming up right now. I'm working
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: as a baker making coffees for people. And when's your
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: next project? Come up? In January? Won't be and that's
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: gonna be another dear, dear thing. I've been doing a
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: lot of deer things lately. So over the summer I
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: was doing for the same Predator Prey Project UM coordinating
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the capture season for fawns, putting college on fawnds over
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the northeast part of the state as a part of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: this to see how what UM fawon survival rate is
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: over there as a part of this bigger picture predator
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Prey project. So did that and then um, yeah, nothing
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: was was starting up and in the area that I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: live right after that, So I've been just working at bakery,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: which is great place to be for the fall, and
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and then next doing another deer capture project totally different.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: This is with UM Department of Transportation because the stretch
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: of highway that goes through the Mahow Valley apparently has
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: one of the highest rates of road kill deer in
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: the state. So going to be callering deer there and
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out if there are certain habitat variables
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: along stretches of highways where or of that highway where
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: more deer are getting hit. So they're trying to understand
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: if there's like some Yeah, it's a habitat study basically
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: trying to see if we can link clues about the
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: habitat to hire collision rates on the road. So it'll
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: be a state level project. It's just in the Madhouse.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: So if you but I'm saying it's conducted by the state. No,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: this is Washington State University and Department of Transportation. So like,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: what's gonna happen to you in the long Like what's
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: gonna what will happen in the long run? As a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: biologist in the long run, I'm but you gotta move. Well,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that's the thing that I'm making it hard on myself
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: because I love where I live, um and I've worked
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: there for so long and on so many different projects
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: that um, I've gotten pretty um attached to that landscape
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: and just passionate about it, and that's the landscape in
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the wildlife that I want to be working with and
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: and trying to improve. Um. My husband has a really
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: good job there too, so that's a factor. I have
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: family there, and so I'm I'm making If I wanted
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: to just move around, which I did quite a bit
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: when I was younger, Um, it would be a lot
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: easier to to find a permanent job. But there's you know,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a tiny place. There's no no stoplights
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: in this valley. It's it's small, so there's not there's
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: not a lot of permanent jobs. Yeah, So I'm just
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: biding my time until something does come up and just
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: patching things together. So I'm kind of unusual. And then
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I'm almost thirty five and I'm I'm still patching things
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: together doing field work. But on the other hand, that's
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: really what I love to do, is is being out
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: in the field and doing field work. And then what happened,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: because it's the other thing I wanted to check back
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: with you in because I'm interested in your in your
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: beginning to hunt. Mm hmm, Yeah, So what happened there
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: this year? Yanni said that you said that you had
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: what how did she say? What'd you say? Long? Argueous, challenging.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was it was a great hunting season, I
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: mean for home real quick though, this is your what's
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: hunting season? What? What? Isn't a word? But you get
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: tenth maybe I think so almost maybe I yeah. So
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I started hunting, Um, I started getting really intrigued and interested. Um.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And when I was doing my undergrad at humblest State
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: University in wildlife. Um, I didn't grow up in a
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: hunting family. UM, did some fishing with my grandpa. Whatever.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: You then you're going to be a biologist? Yeah, yeah,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I've always known. Yeah, I was in school for wildlife
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: biology and I always wanted to do that. Um, So
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I was already, um, you know, grew up camping and
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: backpacking in the out of doors and grew up in
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: a rural area and so, UM, I knew I loved
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: being outside and all that, and I was doing wildlife
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: work and I, um, yeah, I don't know, it's just
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: something about it got me and I wanted to start hunting,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and so I just did it. And I took my
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: hunter safety and where safety on Bambridge Island, Washington in
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: the Sportsman clubhouse. Um did that and I went. My
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: first hunting trip was with a family friend in northern
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: California and the Trinity alps Um and he had been
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: backup I'm getting not lost, but close to it. So
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you're going to school down in northern California, in big
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: dope smoking country down to home. So you're like, hey, man,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I'd like to get into it. I'd like to get
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: involved in this hunting. Yeah. So you wind up out
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: on Bainbridge Island. Sorry, yeah, that is confusing safety. Yeah,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: that was the closest place. No, I'm I'm from Washington
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: over in that area. That was. Yeah, So I was
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: just it was a convenient time location to take it.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: You're living on on Bainbridge Island, but it was near
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: to where my parents live. I was, I don't know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: home on a break or something like that. So you're
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: taking a ferry to go do hunter safety. There's a
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: bridge ocase you're coming from the peninsula side. Yeah. Yeah,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: we just had a guest down from Bainbridge. Yeah. The
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: writer John Mullam heard him. Just check them out. Um, okay,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: so I get it now. Yeah, so I was picture,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: you're taking a ferry from somewhere to go to hunter Safe,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: you're coming from You're coming from the Olympic Price actin anyway.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: So I got that and and yeah, I lined up
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: this trip with UM in California. Back down in California
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: with a family friend who had been packing. His family
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: had been packing into this particular spot for I don't know,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: like fifty years or something. UM, and I was the
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: first woman and I think the only one since to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: ever go to that to that him on the trip. Yeah, Um,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: so it was. And that's not by design. I'm guessing
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that's just by the fact the only ten percent of
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the hunters in America are women. Yeah, basically, No, it
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't like no girls allowed, inevitable sign no no on
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the clubhouse door. No, Hey, there are a lot of
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: signs on a lot of clubhouse doors. That's true. I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: was at a thing this year. I was at a
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: thing this year where like no girls allowed for real
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: hunting hunting thing. I'm leave it there. Sometimes you know
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: signs that aren't there, but you can tell they're there,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And there's sometimes just signs that are there. Now, not
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: that I condone it's easier for me to understand that
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the signs not there, but it's understood. But it strikes
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: me as really strange when the sign is there. That's
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: pretty ballsy in this day and age. Do you think
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: in a situation where women come and knocking that want
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: please let me read the sign? That's weird. So what
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: happens on this trip? First and last, first and last
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: girl to ever come with these guys. Yeah, yeah, it
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: was the first time they ever got skunked? Man? Really,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: did they draw a connection? No? But it has always
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: haunted me, you know, because you're here. You know, back
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: in the old days, no women allowed on the ships
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that, So I've always worried that maybe,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: you know, somebody might have How many people were on
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: this trip. It was just my dad and um this
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: family friends. So there are only three of us and
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: we got packed in on mules, dropped off, dropped off
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and no black tails. So it was certainly near the coast,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and um, it was awesome. I learned a ton and
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: it was Um, it was a great trip. Did you
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: see some critters? We saw some critters. Apparently it was
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: it wasn't the curse of having a female there. It
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: was a really dry year. Things were different, and there
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: had also been an article in a hunting magazine about
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: this spot that previously that it always a lot of
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: good spots, right, and so there were a lot. A
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: lot of people showed up, whereas normally they had the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: place themselves. So we saw some some deer and I
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: had a blast and I was definitely hooked. Um didn't
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: even get a crack. No shots there were shots fired.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't have any shots fired, but there
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: was a miss early on in the trip. The family
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: friend that that we were with, my dad wasn't hunting.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: He was just along for fun, and yeah, my dad
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't hunt, so your old man. It was like, hey,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: that sounds fun. I'll come along, but I'm not hunting.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: But you're hunting. And the family friend he takes a poke,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: yeah exactly, and You're like, I got to do more
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: of this. Yeah. And so then I just started going
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: alone um or with anybody I could drag along with
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: me in Washington after that, because I was a Washington resident.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So I went um around the plain area in the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: North Cascades and just dragged my ass up ridiculously. Steve
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: mountains in horrible um vine maple with little to no guidance,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: little to no guidance. I mean, I'm I'm comfortable in
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: the woods. That wasn't it. But as far it was
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: like someone's like, hey, man, go here, sit on this right,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: a little perch and observe and you'll see, you know,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: around nine am watching right that kind of intel no
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: no intel um. But it was a blast, and you
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: know I learned, Okay, crawling through vine maple isn't. There
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: were deer there, I saw them, But crawling through vine
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: maple up these cliffs isn't. Can you describe fine maple?
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: No vine maple is It's kind of like um slide alder,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: that same sort of idea, where it's just really dense
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: branches that you're having to contour it through, and if
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: you're going uphill, it's coming downhill and you're trying to
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: get oh yeah, like the way all there's branches downhill
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: and girls parallel to the ground. Yeah yeah, exactly. That's
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a real plant that's hard to fall in love with. Yeah, exactly,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: So same thing not on this the cocktail of ruby
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: with the trin and these are not there's some nasty
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: country in there, and then you have poison oak. Maybe
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I don't get so I'm very lucky like that. Yeah special, yes, okay,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: so so I won't get the timeline. I'm trying to
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: establish the chronology of a of a hunter. Not just that,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: but we're gonna get into the chronology of a female hunter,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: the creation of a female hunter. You're comfortable with that,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: which might not even be a thing I'm gonna ask,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: but Year one, are you cool on all this right now?
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Tracking no questions whatsoever. I'm just listening, okay, just want
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: to make sure. If something comes up, jump in. I'll
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: try for sure. Ten years ago, you do the trip now.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I don't expect you to have like a like a
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: You haven't kept the hunting journal, have you? No? I haven't, man,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I for years kept hunting, extremely detailed hunting journals. It's
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: fascinating to go look at those now I quit. I
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: wish I hadn't quit. Whether what happened, who I was with,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: where I was. Oh, man, it takes like a lot
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: of energy to do it, but my god, I was
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I was not too long ago, reviewing hunting journals from
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: a long time ago. And if I had done that,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: my whole life because a lot of times I'm like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I don't know. I know this one
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: spile was pretty sweet. I can't remember where it was
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and I lost my map, But there's honest to goodness
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: places where we went and saw bears spring bear hunting
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: that I cannot remember where it was that we saw him,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: but I know that was like, yeah, there's a slide
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: up some creek and I just you know, you remember
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: exactly everything, but just like would never be able to
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: walk there again because we checked out a lot of
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: trainages and it's become blurry and time. So now that
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: you need that level of detail. But what happened to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: nine what happened nine years ago? So the year after
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: the first one, is that what you mean? Um, that's
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: when I went to playing and crawled around and fine, fine,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: maple saw some deer through the brain nothing happened, Yeah,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: because they were does Yeah yeah, so didn't see any
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: bucks and you're hunting by yourself. Um that those times
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I was with some other family friends that I drug
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: along some um, some guys that were younger than me,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and they'd never hunted either, And you weren't married at
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: this point. So you weren't hunting with your husband at all.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: So then, um, I did that, I think for a
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: couple of years, and then let's see what happened doing
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: all those couple of years. Never gotten, never got anything.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Were you seeing bucks? Uh? Nope, it just does. But
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: see that's what I'm saying. Why are you still okay
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: at that point? Okay, go ahead and finish what you're saying.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I wasn't hunting effectively at that point. I didn't know
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: what I was doing. I knew that I wanted to
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: challenge myself and be having a really hard time, so
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I was doing that. But because I was crawling through
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: vine maple going up these really steep areas, you know,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: there's no way to be quiet. You couldn't. I wasn't.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't have good visibility. I was just bumbling around.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't really know if I walk long enough and
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: hard enough eventually the exactly if I'm soaking wet? Yeah? Yeah?
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And why but what kept you wanting to keep doing it?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Because people like instant gratification? Yeah, Um, I don't know.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: I was just determined and I I just love being
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: out there. Um were you meantime saying to people a
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: trailheads like, hey, do you see any deer on or
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you like running into all? Yeah, I was reading books.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I was talking to anybody I could, friends that hunted
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And when you read books, and
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the books said find um like a good place where
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you can really observe the surrounding country. That didn't make
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: sense because you're in thick stuff. Exactly creative, but it
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: didn't match up like what you were seeing, right. But
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: so then I was learning about still hunting, and so
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I was trying to do that too. Um. But I mean,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: and this is in Washington. It's a week. You've got
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: a week and a lot of times I did work
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: during the week. So even though it was a couple
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: of seasons, it was like days a couple, you know,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: going on general firearm right, exactly, general firearm right, not
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: ten years, you got two days a year. No, this
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: was just in the beginning. This is we're just we're
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: only in years nine, eight seven or thereabouts right now,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: something like that. I don't remember exactly. But yeah, and
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: you're seeing other animals, yeah, yeah, seeing those seeing you know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: bears and whatever else is out there. Lions Nope, no, no,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: not in those years. Nope, not a very opy spot
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: out there. Okay, what's wrong? Sure? Then what happened? Okay?
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So then, um, I decided to move to the Mahou
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Valley in the Cascades. Very different scene. It's open there,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: there's tons of meal deer comparatively, and so I, um,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I bought my first truck and it was stick which
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I had never driven. So I I drove out there
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: and learned stick on the way and pulled into a
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: spot that I had breathed was a Toyota Tacoma. Nice rig. Yeah,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: and he's got that same rig. I'm thinking, is that
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: a great or down grade? Joannie smaller? Okay, So there
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: you are driving a stick shift Toyo Tacoma yea for
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the first time. And I pulled into this spot where
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I'm decided I was going to hunt. Um And how
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: did you decide this? I looked at maps and then
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I breathe play scouted it and yeah, I just sort
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: of it was a lot of just pulling out of
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: the hat sort of. And still no one has said
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to you, hey, go do this, no mm hmm. I
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: mean I I learned some from from this family friend
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: on that first trip about you know sitting that. So
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: his technique where we went was to you'd hike to
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: these spots that he knew, you know, they'd consent, consistently
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: gotten deer, and it'd be like a brushy, a little
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: drawer or something, and we'd wait and then if that
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: didn't work out, we'd go somewhere else. But meanwhile, how
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: is it that they're not Meanwhile, why how is it
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: there aren't guys saying like, come hunt with us. Steve
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: is perplexed the universe hadn't offered you all some sort
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: of guidance. Yeah. I also kind of had a thing
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: where I really wanted to do it alone. Okay, yeah,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: because I could imagine, I could imagine that in a
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: in a small mountain town where men tend to like
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: outnumber women by a lot, Okay, that there'd be a
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: lot of guys would be like, um, hey, let's go hunting.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean that as a euphemism. I mean
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: there's be like like, oh, you you're like struggling to
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: get into hunting. Come with us. You were rejecting those proposals.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I wasn't getting those proposals, know, I mean I just
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: so in the case of menhow I didn't. I mean,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I've literally pulled right into the camping spot with all
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: my all my stuff, and where you're getting funny looks
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: like here's this lone woman out hunting, which is just
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you like, I'm sorry, just like it's not something not
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: that it doesn't happen. It happens, but it's not something
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you typically see. You see a lot of groups of
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: guys driving around on a truck Chester fried Chicken. That's
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: the thing I see oftentimes. I don't oftentimes see I
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: don't know. I'm yet to see uh, just a loane
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: female hunter or even like a group of That's what
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. I'm saying I haven't seen it, but I
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: know that happens. I know the women right met and
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: hung out with women who do do that. But I'm
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: never out, No, it's rare and have I'm never like out.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: And I've seen some orange vest across the valley and
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how upsetting that is to me, but
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: how it shouldn't be upstaying to me because we're all
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: in this brotherhood together. And then I decided to glass
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: them up through my spot and scope and be like, oh,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: it's a woman that never happens. Damn sure what it is?
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: The guy? I uh, I think that I'm out in
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: the woods alone a lot for work, and so you
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: don't feel and look out of place. I don't know
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: what I look like, but I do comments. I get
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of well you do get comments. Yeah, I
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: have people saying telling me to be careful, you know,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: if you run into somebody or people make comments. Yeah,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: and I how do you reply to those comments? Well, nicely,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't. It is irksome. It is. I find
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: it irksome. Um, the assumption that I need to be
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: cautioned or checked in with because I'm out there alone.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I wish it was different. I wish that nobody thought
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I had a second thought about it, which I mean,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: obviously that's wishful thinking because people are going to have
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: a second thoughts. They don't see it very often. But
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: it's kind of this this self perpetuating cycle of that's
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: a good way important. Yeah, people saying, you know, be
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: careful out there, and so then two women and so
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: then women being fearful to be out there. Yeah, and
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I understand that because it's like you want to be
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you want to think like why, uh, why do you
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: have to act like it's unusual, and some old guy
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: is gonna be like, because it is right. I'm sorry
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that you want me to act like it's normal. But
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that's not normal. So like we can all pretend, or
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I can tell you that I hope you're careful right well,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: or you could say, you know, right, exactly exactly. It's
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of you can make the metaphor
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: um sort of similar. I often when I pick up
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: a pocket knife, I am told, don't hurt yourself. You yes,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: how about when you rassling deer? Not so much. But
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: but the part is when I pick up a kitchen knife,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: nobody ever says that, you know, And so it's, uh,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: it's it's this unconscious you know, it comes from a
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: good place. I don't want you to get hurt, but
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I also I don't need somebody to tell me when
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I pick up a pocket knife to be careful. I know,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: it's sure. Yeah. Now, like everyone at this table besides you,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: comes from a place of incredible privilege in this society,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: being like you know, white men have like a track
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: record of being in charge of stuff around hereabouts, right,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: So these sorts of things when I hear about it,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: like I felt like I have this knee your thing
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: to want to defend the people Like oh, he means,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: well yeah, but how do you deal? Like when you
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: deal with something like that, you recognize you're like, come on, dude,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: really like I need to be careful. Maybe you'll be
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: careful because you look like you've already have a heart
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: attack or whatever. You're thinking, like do you are you?
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Do you get mad at the guy or you just
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: sort of get this like perturbed at how culture is.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I get perturbed about how culture is. It depends also
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: on how blatant something is. I mean, I think women
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: probably in general are fairly used to or maybe don't
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: even notice comments like that. But um, maybe because I
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: work in wildlife biology and specifically oftentimes with carnivores and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: and also hunting, I'm often in an environment that's traditionally
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: male dominated. Um and so um, I am around comments
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: like that more maybe, And I'm also aware of them
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: because i'm sort of constantly, um fighting those stereotypes and
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: those assumptions that people might be making about me. Right,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: It's easy to walk into like walk into a room
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: with another biologist, and if he's male, people assume that
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: he's a biologist and say, you know, something signs you
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: to him, maybe, but don't assume that I'm a biologist.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Have you been pairing any vegetables lately? Essentially, it is culture,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: because I said, I got my own little story interject here.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I used to faith feel that same when I'd be
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: like in a grocery store, when I will stay at
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: home dad doing the grocery shopping, and I'd have my
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: eight months old with me, you know, and people would
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, do you know where your mother and
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: your wife is. You're out here alone in the world
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: with this child. You know. I'm like, come on, you know, yeah,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, I got out of control. Man. It's fine.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna cook dinner tonight too. But yeah, you know, yeah,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: and that's yeah. I don't want to make it sound like, oh,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: this is just I think it is just a it's
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: a culture thing. The difference is the difference is and
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: this is like something that we're talking about a lot
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: in our culture right now. There's a difference between stereotyping
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: that has teeth in stereotyping that doesn't have teeth in
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: some directions that's toothed damaging in some directions, it's just
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: like weird and annoying, right, and in some directions, like
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: with women, has got a whole nasty history too that
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: goes along with it. But I mean, being stereotyped into
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: either gender role is isn't irksome? So yeah? But um
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: so now do you have you ever had you ever
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: been out during these early years of going out hunting?
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Did you ever have guys that were just outright scamming
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: on you? No? But I didn't. I mean I wasn't
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: interacting with a lot of people either. I was trying
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: to get away from people. And you never had guys
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: make you uncomfortable out in the woods, No, in trailhead
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: or whatever. It was a cute little lady like you. Yeah,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: but you're rolling that into the annoying Yeah, like that's
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the annoying not threatening type. Yeah. Um, so let's continue
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: out with the chronology. Okay, I'm gonna return to this
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and return to aspects of this, not that aspect, but
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: other aspects of of the female hunter experience. Um yeah,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: sol quick question, do you have a lot of pink
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: stuff on all your stuff? I have zero pink stuff? Yeah,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: so um m hm um I think in your seven,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: I did eight, and what happened, well, but we missed.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: My first big solo trip was when I first letter that.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Let's back up, because this was where I learned. I
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: learned a lot um And yeah, yeah, So I pulled
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: into the Manhoue Valley. I'm moving here, learning stick um,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: starting a new life here. Um. But what was it
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: for work? It was because my sister had just moved there.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: She was about to have a baby. UM. I knew
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I loved the area, and I knew UM I liked
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: working in um high mountain areas with carnivores, and it's
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: a really rich environment there with um, you know, links
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: and wolverines and bears and everything else. So so just
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: you're like making a kind of move to a greener pastures,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: but not some overwhelming, like specific thing. You're chasing it, right, Yeah,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: And I wanted I'd been traveling around doing different field
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: projects all over the country, and I was starting which
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I loved, but I was starting to want a community
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and a sort of set down't I guess, so I
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: just chose that spot. Um. But anyway, this was day
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: one and I pulled into this place where I wanted
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: to camp and I spent the next um eight days
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: hunting every day um by myself and yeah, I'd hyped
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: back to my truck every day. UM. And it was incredible.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I got to know this mountain really well and I
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: was seeing I should have shot probably five bucks that trip. Um.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I had opportunities. The stumbling block there was just UM,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I was really worried about UM. I don't know. It
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: was like I wasn't good yet at no, because it's
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: a three point minimum and I, um, I wasn't good yet.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: A quickly figuring that out, which sounds weird three times, Yeah, exactly.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: So it had to be a Michigan six or a
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Western three point. Well it could be. It could only
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: have one antler doesn't even missues as long as one
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: antler has three points. So um. But I had some
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: incredible moments with Bucks and it was a blast. So
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you'd see the book and you'd be like there'd be
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: a pause or you just wanted to really extra careful.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Sure there was no surprises when he got over there, right.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I also had real shitty optics And is this still
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: really thick country? Um? No, no more, it's more open. Yeah,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the particular mountain I was on was a little thicker,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: but in general was more open. Yeah, more the what
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: do you mean, what are the optics? I don't know,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: off brand binoculars. Yeah, but things that I know now,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: like okay, if I saw that animal again with my binoculars,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: now I would know exactly what it was, that it
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: was legal. Um, in hindsight, you feel like there are
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: some legal box Oh yeah, oh absolutely, I know, like
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I can picture the racket, yeah, exact claim. Um. And
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: also just I don't know that those those It probably
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: is something that people who have brought up hunting don't
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: think about. But for me, the being out there was
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: not what was hard. Figuring out just sort of smart
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: ways to hunt was something I had learned in the
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: years before that. But then those final moments between getting
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: something in your sights and pulling the trigger was for me. Um,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: that was the stumbling block, just all the little decisions
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: and I had a lot of you know, fears and
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: anxieties about what could go wrong, and so that was
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: a stumbling block. But if I hadn't been alone, maybe
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: I probably would have gotten a deer because I might
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: have had somebody to say, hey, go for it. Um.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: But I'm also glad that I did that trip by myself.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't screw up shooting illegal block right yep, yeah, yeah,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: because you know, as a guide, we'd see that a lot.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: You know, people have a real easy time getting kind
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: of up until that moment and then when it's just
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: like you'd be like, yeah, peek over that hill and
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: kill that deer or kill that bull, they kind of
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: look at you like, uh, what what now? You know,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: what do you mean is like pick over that hill
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and kill that bull? And you're like, well, take about
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: four steps and really slowly with your gun already up,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like no one you know, and there's like
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: you're saying, there's like a thousand little things going through
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: your head, and it's, uh, we're kind of coined a
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: term for it, right, Like just those last few moments
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: of like when you really go into like a kind
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: of a kill mode, you know, and everything else just
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: disappears and you're like, now it's going down. Some people
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: lack that decisiveness. Yeah, I was just too caught up
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: in my anxiety about was this going to be exactly right?
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Was it going to go exactly right? So we were
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: one time. Uh, you know, there's a similar restriction with
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: doll sheep where rather than accounting three points, there's like
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: things that make a doll sheep legal or not legal,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: like that when viewed from the side, their horn describes
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: the three sixty degree circle, or that both of the
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: land lamb tips, that each lamb tip is completely broken off,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: or that it has seven annually seven growth rings. So
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: if they're not obviously full curl, it gets really difficult.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Then we were hunting with a guy at one time
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: where we observed one, so that's a legal ram, and
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: he stalked it and got up into range and we
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: never heard, you know, the block, and he comes back,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's legal. Yeah, And then he had
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: he left early, and then we went and refound it
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and shot at legal ram. It was like, is that
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: yea doubt, But people that have that doubt are It's
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: good to have that kind of doubt because the opposite
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: right that can get you in just is like the
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: trigger happy Yeah yeah, feller right, So I didn't. I
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: didn't get a deer um anyway, started living in But
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: you kept at it for eight days? Yeah, yeah, I
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: kept at it. It was blast. I mean just being
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: out there and actually seeing that many deer compared to
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: the years before where I hadn't been. That was exciting enough.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: How many miles are you straying from your truck? I
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: don't know. I wasn't. I wasn't keeping track, but I
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: mean I'd be out all all day, hiking around, running
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: into other hunters a little bit, not much. Yeah, that's
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: a little good spot. Um. I've been there since and Nope,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I've never seen I haven't spent that much time, but
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I have never seen that as many deer as I
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: did that year. Um. Yeah. So I started living and
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: working in the Mahaw Valley and um, just hunting every year,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: just you know, it's a short season. And I met
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: my husband, he hunts, and so we started hunting hunting together. Um,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: which was which is it's great? I love Um I
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: was let's see, it was the first winner that I
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: moved there. And so I was, um, helping with the
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: links trapping effort and also working at a bakery and
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: making coffee. And he is alignment and his his crew
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: was working in the area at that area of the
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: valley where the bakery was, and yeah, came into the
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: coffee shop. Yeah, and weally like, Um, was it quickly
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: established that he liked to hunt and you'd like to hunt? Yeah,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah. Um. Anyway, we started hunting together, which
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: was a whole nother journey. Um, just for me, adjusting
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: to hunting with somebody else really was a big part
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: of it, um, like in a negative way. Um. Yeah,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I liked hunting alone. I do like hunting alone. UM,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: but I also like hunting with other people. It was
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: just meshing our our styles and um and yeah, getting
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: used to consistently hunting with somebody else. And I think
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: that you know, now we're married and we've been together
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: for a long time, and you know, when we go
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: on hunting trips, you might you're not always comfortable. You're tired,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: you're cold, you're hungry, and so when you're with somebody
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: who you don't have to be on your best behavior with, um,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: you know, you can get squabbly and stuff. But we're
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: it's getting more and more um, harmonious, and it's always
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: been been great to hunt with him. It's um, it's
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: pretty cool to do that with with somebody that I'm
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: not close with. So um but anyway, back to the
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: hunting journey. So we just started hunting together and finally
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: got my my first buck and we were hunting together
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: and it was it was it was perfect. It was
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: a great spot in stock and um yeah, so that
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: was a great experience. And then and so what happened
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: with that? Like, how do you feel about that? Then?
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Did you feel like finally it felt like finally yep, yeah,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: and it felt really satisfying. And and it wasn't a
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: huge buck or anything. I was really proud. Did you
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: get up the way you wanted to get it? Like,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: were you still kind of doing it on your own? No,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: we were together, but we were working together, so well
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: it felt it felt really good. We spotted the buck
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: ways away and it was maybe an hour of stocking
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: and then and I was out in front and peeked
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: over this rock and the buck was bedded down maybe
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: forty yards for me, So it was so it was
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: it was perfect. Now did you, uh, what was your
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: emotional response? Were there outward manifestations of emotion? Probably? I
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: think that, um, I mean, you know, classic sort of
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: things that you would see. Was it sadness or was
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: it like real jumping up and down happy? It was? Um,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: I don't. I wasn't jumping up and down, but it
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: was happy, it was relief. There might have been a
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: tear or two. Is that what you're getting at, because
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I've yeah, I've had the good fortune to hunt with
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: quite a few women over the years, and um, there's
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: a And it's hard to understand. I don't know if
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: it's that it's a freer if it's like a freer
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: sort of expression, or if it's like some kind of
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: innate thing or trained thing. But I find the emotional response,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: based on admittedly small sample size, I find that the
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: emotional response is often different. Yeah, well, okay, what about
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: this though laid on me? Could that be more that
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: these are people who are experiencing their first steer kill
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: later in life? I think? So that's what. Yeah, that's
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: exactly right. Because the cases I'm thinking of our people
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: being introduced to hunting as adults, whereas I'm hunting with
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys who hunted their whole life and
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: all the shock has worn off. The surprise is not
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: the shock. But you know what I'm saying, All they're like,
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: holy sh it, Yeah, I've seen plenty of man tears
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, I have since then. Should I was
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: on the verge this year with my mule there. God
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: is telling me too. You know it's funny. Who was
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: just telling me? They cried and they got something I've
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: seen you told me. Damn your cry. Sorry, go ahead,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: that's what you think is going on. I think so.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I mean for me, it wasn't um sadness. It was
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: just there has been so much build up and then
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: there was the adrenaline going and I cry easily, anyway,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I don't, I was not correcting. There were a couple
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: of tears. I think it was just kind of the
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: release of all the all the build up to that moment.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I saw Yann he's uh Yan his dad Yeahan,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: his dad shed a tear when when he got his
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: moves all right, because you got to what I was insane.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: But I'm just wondering. I'm like, you were there because
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: when people any picture sign your hunting trip, I'm like,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: we took a hunting show on our right. I see everything.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I got an eye in the sky when I review footage,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: and yeah, Yan, his dad was moved emotionally. Um so sure,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna give up though, I'm not going to
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: give up on the idea that I think it's more common. Well,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, let me be clear that I think it's
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: a higher I'm not gonna give up on this idea
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: that I think that that there's a higher likelihood. And
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: then I could say, what what factors are at play?
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: A higher likelihood that a female hunter will experience the emotions,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: not experienced them differently, but like, but the outward manifestations
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: might be different, specifically, there might be tears. Mean, no,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: I think that a that there's a greater likelihood of
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: of emotions beyond just hell yeah, yeah, yeah, Well okay,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: here's a little theory back to what we're talking about
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: with gender stereotypes. It's more acceptable in women right in
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: our society, less acceptable in our society. That's what That's
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: what That's what I'm That's what I'm That's what I'm
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: like getting at or wondering about. That's what I'm saying.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it's that it's that I see
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: saying outward manifestations. Yeah, the feeling could be the same,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: and we only know about what happens when we're present.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: So whose principle is it just by observing something you
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: change it Heidelberg Heidelberg principle. I don't know off the
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: top of my head. He's talking about someone's uh, astronomy,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: not astrology, but astronomy. And there's this idea that by
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: observing something, you change it. So it's not really that
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: what that dude was tom about isn't really the same thing,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. What I'm saying is by observing
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: in this interaction, you are changing it because you're a presence.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: So I don't think that I'm not postulating or I'm
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: not saying that like, oh, woman experiences shooting a deer
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: differently than man. It's just a guy might say. Of
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: the ten things I'm feeling right now, I can tell
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: you the one I'm not going to act on right
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: because guys don't cry or guys don't act like they're conflicted. Yeah,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I will act like I'm not conflicted and act like
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not about to cry. I think the last time
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I had it, when I killed a big game animal.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: It was pure um like relief type of tears. It
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: was like day five or six of the Haunt, and
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: I've been just homping some serious hills and was worn
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: out and just fatigued, probably hungry, lost like five pounds
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: that week, and finally it's like standing over at dead
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: elk and just like kind of like crying for no reason,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: and you're like it's just like the relief. You're like, finally,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: you know, I got it done. I've been just like pounding, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: You know. That was part of it for me that
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: year too, because I had been hunting on the weekends
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: really hard, and then during the week I was working
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: every day, so I'd get up and hunt out behind
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: the house before work, go to work, which was hiking
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: all day, going to um wolf kill sites, and then
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I come home and hunt more, and so I was
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: just kind of worn out by that. When you're going
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: to wolf kill sites and then having a tough time
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: hunt we ever like, man, these wolves, these wolves have
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: this dialed no because they actually don't really have it
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: died now that I think their success rate is, it's
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: not what people might think it was. And a lot
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: of so going to wolf kill sites, you're going to
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: um places where there's clusters, they've got callers on taking
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: GPS points every two hours. So you're going to places
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: that I have clusters of points. Yeah, it's not like
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: you know something died. You just know that something went
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: on right, And so most of those places are betting
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: sites or just whatever check right exactly. So that much
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: time wolves have been hanging out. Oh it's awesome, and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: you're following around the same pack and so um yeah,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: you get to kind of know what what they're doing
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: and what they're deal is. It's really they use the
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: landscape and where their spots are and um and going
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: to kill sites. It's just fun. It's really cool because
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: you're you know, poking around trying to figure out exactly
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: what happened, who's been there scavenging where they actually scavenging
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: there's um yeah, it's fun. It takes a lot of
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: tracking skills, which I enjoyed doing something yeah, which you're
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: probably developed. But I want to make sure you put
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: this thing. I want to make sure you put this
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: thing to bread because I've like, I feel like you
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: don't like what I'm saying or getting at When I
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: asked about the crying. Oh no, no, um no, I'm
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: problem with it. I just um, I just knew that
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: was probably where you're going with it. How did you
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: know that's what I was going with it, because it's um,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: I knew it was probably expected that a woman would
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: be more emotional and no, no, no, not you. But
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: if you you fit into a bigger, a bigger pattern.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Come on, yea, what isatterny carbon into a bigger pattern
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: to have before you asked the question or it got
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: to your point that you sort of could have just
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: pulled a group of people, and then it's sort of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: been like, what's possibly like a question that we'll get
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: to you know, shit, really, yeah, here I am. I'm
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: not going to sit here and defend myself. You don't
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: need to know. It's not just like it wrong. This
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: is like this. Here's what how I picture this. This
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: is where I get to um, where I get to
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: have a conversation with the person I respect, whose opinions
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: I respect, and I get to ask them all the
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: things that guys wonder about women about hunting. Now I
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: was gonna ask this next, I'm gonna ask it now.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: The reason being, and this is something that you and
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: I have discussed at length. The honest we keep being told, right,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: but we keep being told in the media and the
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: outdoor media that there is such a thing as the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: female hunter and the female perspective is needed in hunting,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and which I agree with wholeheartedly. But Janice is always saying, like,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: but is it really How do we know that it
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: is that there is such a thing. Maybe it's just hunting. Yeah,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: and that's and there. And I want to like the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: second part because there in lies the issue. We're saying
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: that it's no different. It should be no different, we
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: should always treated as equals. But there's a lot of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: people who are very invested in this idea of enhancing, developing,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: bringing out the female perspective, which they tell us is
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: no different. I'm just staying like, I have my own
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: opinions about this. I'm saying like one might survey the
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: cultural dialogue surrounding women in the outdoors and come to
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: the conclusion that, like, let me make sure I'm getting
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: this right. The female perspective is important, but it's not different.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: And there's there's tension between those two ideas, but they
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: live side by side like friends. I would say to
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: that a lot of things, not that I have a
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: problem with anything that you've just said, but I have thought, yeah,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: and I don't I don't know. I'm just feeling like
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: I need to defend the fact that that you felt
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: like you were needing to defend yourself. No, I totally
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: because I agree with you, because I've thought a lot
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: about this obviously. Yeah, I knew you had because even
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: ask that specific question, because and maybe I should have earlier,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: because I was just wondering, like, how do you spend
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: time like sitting around in the woods when the hunting slow,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: thinking about this thing that we're now going to get
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Let's say what I damn sure haven't done, because I
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: have never said all in the woods and being like
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: as a man, I feel this right. Yeah, Well, what
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: I've come to is if there is a special female
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: perspective on hunting, I'm not really sure what that would be.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: I personally don't feel like I have a a special
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: perspective on it. I feel like where we should be
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: um what people mean when when they say that we
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: should be equal. It doesn't have to do with the perspective,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: but in how women are represented and treated. I understand
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: that's not the mysterious part to me. I would love
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: to hear you talk about it. I completely understand that. Yeah,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: so I think it's it's I don't know that anybody's
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: trying to say, um, that women have this different perspective
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: and it's important. No, no, yeah, but that that, but
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: that it's the same at the same time. I mean,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: I think you can bring different things to the table,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: but where it needs to be equal is how you're
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: treated at the table, if that makes any sense, right,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: So I, um, you know, I don't want to be
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: treated in any differently when I'm out there. It would
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: be nice to see equal representation in hunting, you know,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: if if it would be great too go on TV
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: and and see as many women killing it out there
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: and being inspired by that and being inspired, maybe not
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: even consciously, but just seeing women doing that helps you
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: to realize you can do it too. Um. And and
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: just by the fact that there aren't as many women
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: out there doing it, and that when people are talking
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: about hunting, it's all talking about men predominantly. Um. It
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: just every time kind of reinforces them the stereotype in
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: everybody's brain. Women included that this isn't an activity for us,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: This isn't something that I could excel at. Can you
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: think of four ORMs of describe for me the ways
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: that you see female hunters represented or how they represent
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: themselves in in media, like like, what are the what
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: are the things that you see? Do you have you
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: have categories of representations? Well, I don't watch a whole
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: lot of TV or I don't look like hunting magazines.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: No I do. I watch a lot of YouTube hunting
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: videos and then mostly men. But I, um, there was
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: one I saw lately of a woman just out there
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: hunting by herself, high country mule deer, and she was
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: just it was really exciting and cool for me to see,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: to see that because it was that it was that
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: it happened to be a woman out hunting, but it
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: wasn't the point of it exactly. Yeah, And so then
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: you noticed it and it resonated with you. Yep, I
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: noticed it. It resonated with me, and it um yeah,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: And she was just she was doing it alone and
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: that was neat to see. If you're watching okay, let's
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: let's say watching YouTube videos. If you're watching a YouTube
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: video and you and you stumble across the video where
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: the point of the video is to point out that
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: here I am a woman out hunting. Does that resonate
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: with you or do you not like to see it?
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: Articulated No, I think it's it's great to articulate it
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: because women are underrepresented. If you can, um, you know,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: bring attention to the few women that are doing it,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: I think that that's great. Yeah, it's the um it's
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: just not seeing it as much and not being exposed
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: to lots of women. It. It's not completely normalized, you know,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: and so that's why people have have a little double
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: take when they see women in the wood. It's because
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: it's not normalized. And it's it's back to that self
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: perpetuating thing where it's not normalized for women to be
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: out there. They're not you know, hearing stories about other
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: you know, their mom or whatever going out there hunting.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: They're not seeing it on TV. They're walking into you know,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: hunting stores, and it's getting a lot better. But it
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: used to be that the only camo for women was
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: like bikinis and underwear, and so just seeing those little
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: things daily, it just paints a bigger, maybe subconscious picture
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: that this this isn't something that women do. Maybe they
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: can't do it as well or whatever. But that to
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: talk about camouflage underwear, Okay, there's there's I know what
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, because it's like camouflage, is Fredericks of
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Hollywood still in business? I don't know's that type of
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: First Light. You guys at First Light make camouflage men's underwear.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: We make camouflage women's underwear. To why because they are
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: they are a camel line. I'm not gonna go find that.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: I just want to know because I don't know if
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: I was dated when I it's very dated to point
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: it out, but I just want to make sure I
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't even so dated that it doesn't exist anymore. When
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: it started out, you know, very small company. I want
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: to interrupt my own and I want to go for it.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: Hold bear with me for a minute. This. I want
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: to get back to this. But I just really need
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: to This is a question I've had to. I need
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: to pursue this for a moment. Sorry. So, I mean
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: there are and we're at shot show. We'd be right
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: across the way from Remember when we were in the
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: corner it shot the booth right across from us with
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: like the sexy camel Yeah, you know, like why do
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: we have to be But okay, but when it started
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: out for us, uh, you know, very small company and
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: we have we would die Marino wool. You know the
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: uh what's now a conifer not green black dry earth
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: um and uh fusion right without really knowing what you're
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: gonna make out of it. But you have to at
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: least get to your m o Q, your minimum order quantity,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: just to get the stuff produced. So we got to
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: this point where like, well, we gotta make everything in
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: everything just to hit our m o Q. And that's
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: how it started. But I was like, why the hell
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: are we making camel boxers? The thing is they out
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: sold the solid colors. Now who is buying them? Is
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: it a dude buying them or is it? And I
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: always said, you know, it's grandma buying like it likes
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: camel needs new underwear exactly. But the thing is itself.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: So now it's it's there, dude, I had. So I
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: had a pair of your camel boxers on. First off,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: I put him on, and my lovely wife pointed out
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: that did not let that go on observed, uncommented on.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: She had to comment on her surprise, and we had
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: a little laugh about it. Then in the middle of night,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: my two year old comes in our room because he
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: is wet, and now that's not doesn't fly with him anymore,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: and he's gonna let someone know. So I hop out
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: of bed in my camel boxers and I'm trying to
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: be like because Jimmy and Roles, you're sleeping and mean
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: be quiet, and he is screaming, what's that underwear? What's
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: that underwear? It struck him like yeah, but we're trying
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: there day a little kids, know would be afraid of
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: snakes and spiders. He knew that he had not encountered
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: underwear like that in his day, and it really just
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: wrong me, Like, you know what, I don't know what
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: is that underwear? So people really do want they want it,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: and it's everything, but it's boxers. So it's not like
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: like I can see a guy dude hiking him too.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: I can see a guy a guy likes to hunt.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: It's Christmas time and he gets his wife some stuff
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: that she actually wants, and he's like, yeah, I knows,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: for fun, I'm gonna get her some camouflage linger just
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: to have a laugh, right, And so he would buy
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: the camouflage later. But that's not who's buying technical Marino
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: technical underwear. Yeah, I truly don't. I'm from the dude
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: who buys his lady lingerie and camel. Oh just okay?
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: Who has going to both ends of the spectrum and
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: articulating here? I don't understand any of it. So yours
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: puzzled and and everybody is too. But the thing is
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: it's it's great for me because when I go on
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: a trip, I'm like, yeah, we're the black Ones for
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: five days. Now I can move on with new the
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: camel like I go back to the Black One. Long
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: trips like that, I find myself. Yeah, I'll change my
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: said while in I'm like, if you balance the days,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: I should really go back to the dirty pair, because
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: I got four on knows and six on these. Jump
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: back to my dirty put it? What? Um? Can I
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: see your underwhere? Real? Quickly? We'll call you running? I
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: don't know. I think gray, solid gray, not a real
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: tree blue? You have like a fish cut? Oh yeah,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: there's fish and deer on there? All right? Where were we? No? Okay? Um,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you stopped and we didn't go all the
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: way around the horn on cal Do you got fair
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: of camels? Then? I know? On firmost basement, so freeze.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry? How did what came up that I that
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: I needed to well, uh, the camel section in some
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: of these big walking into a camel section. But do
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: you really there were no female Yeah, I'm sorry. Karmon's
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: point was there were no female hunting clothing hunting clothing.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: But would that actually bother you? Well? Yeah, what reasons?
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Why did that bother you? Well, first of all because
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: of what it symbolized or because it was impractical, both
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: both because it was just you know, going and be like, really,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: this is all there is is bikinis. There's nothing here
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: for me. The store that had men's hunting apparel and
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: then women's bikinis exactly, there might be a couple of
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: items for women, but pretty you know, it was maybe
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: a rack and then a rack of like camera underwear
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: and stuff for women and be targeted towards the men
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: shopping in the store. Right, Yeah, I actually might now
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: that I think about it, I think I'm buying my
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: wife as seat of these for this Christmas. Let me know, no,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: I mean the other call the bikini, not the kind
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: you guys have. Ok let me practical set um yeah,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: just you know, just too it's free country yep um. Okay,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: So it bugged you because of what it symbolized in
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: did you look at it and think this? Did you
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: ever look at and go well, I guess it makes
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: sense because because a lot of companies don't make left
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: handed stuff, and that's a higher percent the high percentage
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: of the American population is left handed than the female
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: percentage of license hunters. I get that the frustrating. I
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: feel burned when a company is not making a left
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: handed product. That's tough, But I don't feel burned by
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: what it all means, right well, because right yeah, because
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: they've got nothing. Please, I'm not equating being left handed
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: being ye yeah so um but yeah. But it's still
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: frustrating because part of that is that's that feedback thing
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: where when all signs are pointing towards women don't hunt
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: and not encouraging women to hunt, there's not going to
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: be women hunting, or not many women hunting, So there's
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: not going to be many clothes sold for women, so
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: there's not going to be many women hunting, and on
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: and on. So do you think that a woman would
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: actually not because I see this mentioned though, then that
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: that's a barrier to entry. I have a hard time
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: picture that there's in the history of this country has
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: been a woman who is like, uh, man, I would
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: love to go hunting, but I just can't because there's
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: not specific female hunting close. There's no way that's happened.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: No, no no, no, yeah, but it's it's it's stacking all
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: of these little signs up together. That's, hey, we don't
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: want you here. Yes, I believe in that part. I
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: believe in the the accumulation of these little girls allowed
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: exactly accumulation of unwritten notices for women's entire lives. And
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: it's not just women don't hunt. It's little cues their
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: entire lives from when their baby's on too, be careful,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: don't take risks, um, don't be outside alone. It's kind
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: of it's more than just don't hunt. It's it's a
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: stack of cues that we're getting our whole lives. Are
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: you getting it from your family you personally? Um? No,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: I mean my my um. My parents are very adventurous
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: and always encouraged us to do whatever we wanted. My
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: sister and I, Um, you haven't felt it like that
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: disapproval from your father? No? No, no, no no, no no
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: no no. My dad's a botanist, and so I grew
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: up out in the woods with him all the time.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: Um My mom, they you know, took us backpacking and
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: everything else. And my mom, um, my mom is an artist.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: Um her main medium is cow intestines and yeah, or pig.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: Um what is she doing with these intestines? So it's
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: or fish skins or lots of different sort of um,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: organic media materials. And it's so it's not like creepy
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: or creep vibe at all. Yeah, No, it's actually really beautiful.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: She does sculpture stuff and it's um. She takes the
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: gut and and um slices it up so that it
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: lays flat and dries it either around a form or
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: dries it flat and then and that's her medium. Like
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, paper would be or something.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: So she might stretch it around a frame of sticks
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: that are made into a boat or um, make it
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: into like a book, all sorts of things. What's the
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: UK what's the word? You know? The Walter skin. Yeah,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: that was part of the inspiration for for those boats
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: that she didn't think. Yeah slightly translucent, yeah exactly, Yeah,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: you can you can see light through it. So anyway
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: I grew up, I'm just yeah, So she's not exactly
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: a stereotypical to her on next time, she's great, yeah,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: I'll throw out a chunk of gut. So I grew
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: up in a house where you open a yogurt container
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: in the fridge and it might not be yogurt, might
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: be a little scraps of meat scrap, It could be gut,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: it could be or whatever. I mean. She also she
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: was actually, uh went to Humblet stay tuned. She worked
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: in their vertebrate museum and skinning and stuffy animals and
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: so so she wasn't gonna tell you. So she's not
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: going to tell you that girls shouldn't be out cutting
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: stuff up right exactly? Yea. All right, so you had
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: a you had a I want to say, a typical
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, so it was. It was a science
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: biology focused family, you know. Um yeah, No. The next
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: thing I want to ask you about what when you
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: see Okay, now, because around the subject of apparel and gear.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: All right, Um, when you go into a sporting goods
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: store and they now have a full line of female apparel,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: but it's all got a bunch of pink stuff on it,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: are you thinking, thank God? Or are you like man?
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Do they overcorrect or is it some other kind of
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: like I don't really know what to make of this.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be one of those choices. But
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: you get what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, the pink stuff,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: I mean to me, it's um is it actually technically
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: good gear? Does it work? I think that um, it
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: kind of gets back to that where women in the
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: field and that special but we want to be equal.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: If um, I think that I'm a quite feminine person
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna all of a sudden feel comfortable
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: wearing UM. I mean, I'm not gonna wear like really
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: man macho clothes just to fit in. I'm gonna wear
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: what I feel comfortable with when I when I work
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: with in the field, which is most days. I mean,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not dressing in any sort of macho way or anything.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: I'm wearing what I what I feel comfortable in. And
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: so if women feel more comfortable and clothes that have
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a feminine flair, um, I don't
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: personally have any being cameled, but if that's what feels comfortable,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I don't need it doesn't make you
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: nauseous to see it? No, I mean, if it it
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: my to my I look ridiculous, But I don't. Whatever
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: anybody wants to wear, if it works and it's comfortable
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: and it's practical, yeah I don't. I think you can
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: be feminine and be a badass in the field at
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: the same time. Last year, Wisconsin and maybe some other states, Johnny,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: you might know the answer to this. Yeah. I think
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: a few others I don't know who pass some legislation. Montana,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: did they pass some legislation? I know what happened in Wisconsin.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: It is one of the rare things where the all
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: the politicians Wisconsin could all agree on this, and it
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: was like a quick together and it's a quick, easy
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: thing to decide that. Um, the reason women are out
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: hunting is because they just don't like blaze orange. If
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: you allow them to wear a blaze pink, they would
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: flock to the woods. So once this problem was identified,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: they quickly got in and pulled together and and legalized
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: blaze pink. Like, when you hear about a rule like that,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: what do you When I tell you? That, what do you?
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: What jumps to your mind that that's really ignorant and ridiculous.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: That's not the problem. Yeah, he only has the problem No,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. I mean maybe you could make it into
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: the problem sort of symbolically, like, um, we need to
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: make the hunting the image of hunting. Um says no
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: girls aloud and saying welcome. Yeah, but I don't know.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: Here's the problem I had with it. Half with it.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think of blaze orange as being like a
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: man color. If you, to be legal, had to wear
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: a face mask with a mustache painted on it, okay
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: and one, And that was just how it always was.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: So anytime a woman wants to go out in the field,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: she has to have a mask with a mustache. And
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: later states like, man, I just feel like the mustaches
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: are a bit much for the female hunters. Let's pass
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: a law saying you can wear a mask with no mustache.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, yeah, that's a that's a great idea.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: I agree with this new no mustache law because a mustache,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: when I see it, exceptions aside, screams man to me.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: But I don't think of blaze orange is being gender specific. Yeah.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: I don't either. I think that that was kind of a, um,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: not great idea they had. Yeah, I would really be
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: surprised if that changed anything drastically Okay, there's no scientific data,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: polling data whatsoever to back that thing up. No women
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: were like, oh, bro, I'm dying to hunt. Ain't doing
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: it in blaze or no, Nope, not for me. I
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: mean very quickly when and I mean I've seen this.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: And that's why this law was very irksome to me.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: I wrote a few letters on it. Um, what law
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: the pink? Yes, you got you wrote letters about it.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't care that much. It's just an email these days,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: I got a lot of email addressed a long while. Um.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: But so we put together a women's line. We had
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: a panel of fifty women from young to old. Uh,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: skinned wide, all across the spectrum of um of skill
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: level or days in the woods, I guess. Uh. And
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: that's how we developed our line. And then and we
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: decided that we were gonna have any pink gun anything, right.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: And when we launched it industry facing at shot show
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: and we're showing it two buyers for all these stores
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: who are overwhelmingly male. Very often we would get, hey,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: this is really nice, but you know what you should do.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Put a little pink on there. This is for you.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: And they'd be like, huh, a little insider info for
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: you guys, helping you out, you boys, and idahol might
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: not be aware. And this, yeah, the blaze pink laut
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: it is the same thing. It's a bunch of dudes
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: being like, all right, what they want. And that's what
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: is irksome about the pink is that it that that
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: is their idea of what women are going to want
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: or what it makes them comfortable or something. I mean,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: if it is, that's great, but um, it feels a
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: little bit frivolous to think that that's what's you know,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: that was the problem. I just don't like little things
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: like that, tying down valuable time when any form of
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: government is in sessions. Yeah, there's a few other things there.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: They want to go with some slam dunks now, and yeah,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: they definitely do. And you know, Wisconsin. I always love
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin because they went from having a case law where
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: you had to have your gun in a case to
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: be in a no case state. Now you just put
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: your gn the bad you don't gonna have a case.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: So the place has my you know, undying affection. So
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: they know all the slam dunkers that they get through.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: I'm behind some of them. Yeahy are you typing down
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: thoughts that you'd like to ask Karmen? I was reading
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: up on how the blaze pink thing got started and
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: just seeing where like the genesis of it was all right, Karmen,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: Now is there anything now that we've had uh, and
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: we're the guys here might have more? I've asked a
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: lot pretty much all of my ask a woman questions.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Do you have questions that you've ever wished you could
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: ask of a guy about these subjects? Mm hmm? And
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: it could be like it, could you keep mind you're
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: not gonna insult me. You could ask a question that
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: that betrayed a you know, that might betray some level
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: of ex aspiration with the way guys look at things whatever,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: Like I won't take offense, But is there ever do
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: you have any like burning questions about why do you
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: guys always have to blink? I think I would, I mean,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: I I think I know the answer, but I would
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: ask men to think twice before they maybe even just
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: sort of subconsciously are if they're in a situation with
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: a woman outside um telling her to be careful or
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know, to me be more encouraging of actually
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: taking risks and putting herself out there and you don't
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: like the protector stands. I mean no, not beyond what
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: anybody would you know, watch their buddies back out there.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, well it's like the pocket knife thing. I
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: don't need somebody to tell me to be careful with it.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: And I or, um, you know, I used to go
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: I'm a runner, and I worked in the South for
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: a while, and for whatever reason, this happened even more there.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: But I'd be running at night often and men would
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: constantly stop and you know, asked me if I needed
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: a ride, and wasn't I scared of bears exactly exactly,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: and I'd be like, no, I'm not scared of bears.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: And in my head, I'm thinking, but when people slow
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: down and stop like this, this is what yeah, yeah,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: I'm getting kind of yeah. So um, I think it's
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: it's not even conscious for a lot of people, but
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: this sort of just protective. It's not even that it's
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: worry that's palpable from men. I'd rather just be assumed
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: that I got this. I'll ask for help if I
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: need it. We kind of covered this early, but I
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: just want to help a check on something. Do you
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: feel that when a guy does that thing the little lady,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, it's dangerous are here. Do
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: you feel that it's a that it's coming from an
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: honest place normally, or do you feel that it is
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: a way of that it is a way of like
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: asserting a sort of dominance. Is a little bit strong award,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: but it's a way of like letting you know how
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: he feels about what he's seeing. Or do you think
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: it's like he's honestly concerned about my well being? I
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: think that it's usually from that place of honestly being concerned,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: but it's it's it um is coming from that's it's
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: coming from a naive place um, and it comes off
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: as sort of patronizing. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Every conversation
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: I have on the trail with an anybody ends with
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: have fun, be safe. Yeah kind of be safe. That's
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: like see you later. Yeah yeah, but I say it
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: to everybody day. We're a tricker treating we trick or
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: treated the fire barn. As I walked off, I was like,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: thanks a lot of guys, be safe, man. Now, I
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: don't think those guys like that guy really patronized us.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: It's just it's like a sign off. You're telling me
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: all these kids can't be sweat like when I when
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: I like my body is taken off, I give him
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: the finger. It's just like I'm just saying, you know,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: be safe. You're saying, what's up? See you? And that's
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: kind of I mean, I totally give what you're saying,
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: and I say, you know, I tell people to drive safe,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: be safe whatever, all the all the time. So it's
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: not that's why these things are. It's hard to describe
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: and hard to talk about because I couldn't probably point
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: to every single instance and be like he was being
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: really I mean, sometimes it's blatant. You can tell that
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: they're talking down to you or patronizing it. But I
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: couldn't um tell you the motivation between behind every one
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: of these events. But as when it's your whole life
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a pattern, um and it's just they're
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: they're just slight things that um you might even be
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: questioning like what what did you mean by that? But
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's um hard, it's it's hard to maybe put
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: your finger on what the motivation was because there are
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: so many people who are just you know, be safe
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: out there or whatever, And it's totally coming from a
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: good place. But it's the it's the pattern of it.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: It's a it's stacking up over living and growing up
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: and around old men and hunting camps. You're like, very
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: real and happening all the time. There's a word. It's
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: not new. Um, it's kind of coming into its own
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: now where you'll see it like all the time. Uh.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: Like the word man splaining you're familiar with, does that
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: bug you? Man's plaining for people who don't man's plaining
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: is there's this idea that men explain things to women
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: differently than they explain things to men, where they explain
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: things as though they were talking to a dumb child, yeah,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: or just as assuming even that just that it needs
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: to be explained, little lady, let me tell you the
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: r the dose and that. Yeah, I'm I've just learned
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: that word this summer. Um. And funnily enough, a woman
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: was describing it to me and then a man splained
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: man splaining to me right there. Um, But it is
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: a good word to describe something had a man's plain
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: man splaining Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, that's bother some. For example,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: this just a couple of weeks ago, my mom and
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: I were out hiking and ran into somebody coming down
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: the trail and he stops and we're chatting, and I
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: interrupted him to because there's a peregrine falcon and I
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: was pointing. I said, oh, look, peregrine falcon whatever, and
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: he says, Nope, that's actually a h Harris hawk um
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: and starts describing to me that I've misidentified it. And
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: he starts telling me about this hawk and he was
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: totally wrong. It was a falcon and I but you know,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to get into it, so I just
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: let him man splain it to me. But both my
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: mom and I, she's a great birder, just internally rolling no.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: And he started to get into well, they used to
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: be called uh, and he started to say swamp hawks,
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: which is not correct. It's marsh hawks. And I sort
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: of corrected him there, but he didn't didn't even catch
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: on that maybe I knew something about what I was
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: talking about, and he continued to So you guys were
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: having a little know how showdown. Yeah, I mean, I
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: basically just let him go on about it, let him
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: be a guy. Yeah, but my mom and I definitely
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: afterwards were just like, yeah, so the you and your mouth,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: you and your mom, it was enough union mouth. Then
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: later oh yeah, we talked about it later. It was
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: so blatant and he was so wrong. We were there there.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking example, I'm talking about a woman
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: in the wood. Yeah, yep, yeah, that's the experience. Can't
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: be Yeah, yeah, So I think we don't know if
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: we covered it or not. We kind of you kind
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: of said I like when you said, like, you know,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: we bring it, might bring different things to the table.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: We're gonna be treated equal at the table. So you've
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: had like a lot of honey experiences now with guys
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: and as a female if you much with other females. Nope, no,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: But like, so do you do you feel like is
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: there a different experience to be had there? I? Um,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: I mean I certainly cannot speak for all women, and
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: I um, if there is, I haven't identified it, or
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like I in particular bring something special
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: as a woman. I think, yeah, none of it has
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: to be special, but just not blessing that you're not
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: blessing the woods with your presence special or like changing
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: hunting in in any way with some fresh female perspectives
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: that the deer you shoot feel better about having been
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: shot by a woman. No, I don't think they give
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: a gentle hand. Sure glad it was lady that blew
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: ahold through my side Jesus hot and cold. That was
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: like my big takeaway when I sat around chatting with
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: the gals from the office, Brittany and Nicole and Annie.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know who else is there that time, but
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: it's sort of like we went through like their year
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: of hunting that fall and were kind of having the
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: same conversation. In the end, I was like, yeah, it
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: kind of sounds like you just had all a bunch
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: of like beginner like hunting stories this year, you know.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: Um so yeah, cool, thank you. Yeah. I mean maybe
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: there will be some women out there that do bring
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: a special feminine perspective, and I'm look forward to hearing
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: what that is. But I don't feel like, yeah, I
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: just don't. You're not hostile to it. No, I'm not
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: hostile to it. Okay, I forgot one thing I forgot
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: that asked we started out so you know, have go
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: in great detail. This year was a shitty hunting yeard
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: or no, No, it was great something, Yeah, I did. Yeah.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: So this year I shot a buck all by myself,
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: UM alone on the mountain for the first time, which
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: was that felt really good working. Uh No, he was
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: packing for our trip to Idaho because we went, so
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: we did. So this year's story was we did um
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: the high hunt. So in Washington there's in September there's
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: a week long high hunt UM and that was really
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: it was a really fun year. It was hard because
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: we were having a UM huge wild fire. It ended
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: up burning two d seventy thousand acres, mostly in the
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: Satan Wilderness, which is our big wilderness area to UM
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: to hunt for the high hunt. That's where we've hunted before.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: Can you explain high hunt? So that's it's in certain
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: only in certain wilderness areas. Wilderness areas tend to be
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: the highest nasty portions of the fort. Yeah, there might
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: even be an elevation requirement of like you guys talk
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: about Colorado, it has to be above in the rags
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: called the high huntin I think they call yeah, yeah,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: and right, But have you ever heard like, like what's
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: that Colorado hunt where they you cannot hunt below ten
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: there's like an early season mule deer wilderness tag and
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: it's for ten thou feet and but I think I
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: could be wrong, but I feel like these do they
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: say that, It just say wilderness are is what happened
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: to be real high I I don't remember. I don't know.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: I think, well, in our area, yes, we're fine in
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: all of our all of our wilderness areas where you
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: can hunt, but I don't know about other areas in
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: the state if there's an elevation thing. Um. But anyway,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: so we kind of had to be on our toes.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: So we ended up um hiking into areas that we've
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: never been in hunting and UM, we had a blast.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: It was it was awesome, but neither of us had
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: the stars a line to get a buck. Yeah, yep,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: we saw bucks. Let's see we went. We actually ended
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: up backpacking into three different spots. Um. In the first spot,
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: I think we saw four And why couldn't you get
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: one because you're seen them way off? The first we
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: saw a little um there was a little group the
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: night before opening and they were way off. Went up
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: to where they were for the opening day of the
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: high hunt and UM ended up jumping one buck and
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: and didn't see any other that day, and then I
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: saw another one that trip uh just for a second
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: and it disappeared into into the trees. Nope, we didn't
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: see any other hunters. That's That's one of the really
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: great things about the High Hunt is there's a lot
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: of people coming in hunt in the Okanagan in Okanagan County. Um,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: because it's great. There's a big you only heard there,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: but you have to work to get away from people. Um.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: But the High Hunt kind of does that for so. UM,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: then you guys are gonna go hunt Idaho. And he's like,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: I'll pack you hunt. Yeah, so well, so that so
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: we did the High Hunt. We hunt it really hard,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: had a great time, didn't get any deer, so then
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: we both could still hunt during general because if you
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: get something there the high Hunt, you can't hunt during
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: general General. We backpacked in pretty much did another high
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: hunt um, and my husband got a deer and um,
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: so that was really fun. And then we we came
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: back from from that particular trip and had a couple
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: of days before we left for our Idaho trip and
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: so um, I wanted to just hunt to the bitter end,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: so he had to pack and I just went off
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: hunting by myself. Just behind our house there's a bunch
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: of state land and UM found a little buck and
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: uh and I I stared at it and I had
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: so now I was in that position again of here's
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: the last couple moments where you're my mind was racing
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: and having all these doubts, and I just uh finally
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: told myself that I'm I'm gonna have these doubts every
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: single time. I just need to pull my socks up.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: And and I knew that I had it, you know,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: part of my brain. I just needed to shut those
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: doubts down and and I did it and I got it.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: So so that felt good. I felt like a hurdle
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: I finally cleared. So do you're all by yourself? Yea
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: may having doing getting through those those final moments by
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: my by myself with yeah, without somebody you know saying
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: you're good, go for it. So yeah, so we got
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: so I got that deer. And then next day we
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: left for Idaho and UM and that was an incredible trip,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: really worked really hard. Um I only had an elk
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: tag and my um husband had an elk and a deer,
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: and my brother in law did as well, and they
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: both got nice mule deer, and um, we never caught
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: up with the elk, but we we learned a lot
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: about the area and I had a blast though. So
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: that was a really cool trip too. Yeah, oh yeah,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: And he presented it to me like it was some
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: kind of disaster. Oh no, not a disaster at all.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: I mean we worked really hard, you know, maybe that's
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: the part he caught us arduous. Yeah, we were hiking
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: in you know, I think our first camp was thirteen
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: miles and in and we stay there and hunted hard.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: And it's I mean it's rugged country and uh in
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: the Cascades. So but yeah, what time do you hit
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: that hit Idaho? Uh? Last week of October? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: And it was for me coming from Washington going there.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: The number of deer that we were seeing it was
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: insane and some big wide open, some big wide open. Yeah,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: and just it was so cool to be seeing that
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: many bucks every day. And it felt like compared to
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: our bucks that I'll tell you what, if I was
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: playing are all out of whack. I haven't heard enough
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: where I know. If I was playing the Hunting Trip,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: I would be headed to screw Colorado. Just unbelievable. Amounts
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: of bucks everywhere. You look like you trust Carmon because
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: she's a woman. He was talking about Colorado. They're forecast
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: to know about the gentler sets that they do not. Okay,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is this is everywhere. Any comparison
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: in comparison. So yeah, in comparison. Can't trust these women.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: Everybody knows that can't. I'll be careful out there. There's
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of big bucks out there. It could hurt you.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: What are you doing with that pocket knife? I shouldn't
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: have that. Who gave that to you? Um? So it's
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: all the grays. You guys are eating all kinds of
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: deer meat. Yeah, a lot of dear meat. You guys
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: eat muliar. Then you guys are eating mule deer, right.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: Mostly guys like the flavor. I mean it is so
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: that first buck that I got was a buck. I mean,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: as I was walking up to it, I could smell
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: that that goaty smell that was that was a strong one.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't. Oh yeah, the whole thing tasted goaty.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: Did Yeah, I did, what do you call it? Goadie
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: like kind of a barnyardy sort of Yeah, And that
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: year it was ruddy from a Yeah that year, Yeah, yep.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: You could smell it as it was cooking, as I
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: was cooking. Yeah, yep. And that that year's still tasted fine, right,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: I mean it tasted strong. I mean we ate it.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: It was really but yeah, so just walking up to it,
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: you were like, holy moly. Yeah. And that year, um,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: hiking for work, there were least two times when I
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: smelled a buck before I saw it. Really, yeah, this
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: is real barnyard goaty kind of smell. But the Idaho
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: ones I heard bucks are great and Idaho all the
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: bucks we got this year are delicious. But they were
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: not they you know, they didn't you couldn't smell them
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: when you were up at them. They weren't already smelling. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: what was the date of the one you shot in Washington?
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: You felt, was like right, it out pretty good? Um,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: it was it was mid October. That was a strange year.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: That year is what a lot of people in the
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: valley referred to as the slaughter of because for whatever reason,
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: bucks started migrating down into the valley earlier. Maybe because
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: it was a really dry summer, I don't know, but um,
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: they started migrating down really early, and um it seemed
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: like they started getting ready earlier and they were just
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: it was a slaughter. So people were killing show up everywhere, right, Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: this pass hunting season people have done I think pretty poorly,
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: it seems like. So it's just one of those things.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: But yeah, well congrats on your first solo deer. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: it's about as small as a deer as could be
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: legal in Washington. No, no, not this one. No, that
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: was yeah, this one, that one, So what's the new one?
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: So that's a just tiny, delicious buck. Yeah, alright, good.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: I thought you're saying you got a whole bunch of
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: eating a head of you know, that's all behind you know,
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: ye yes, polish it off. Now you're moving on to
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: the good one. Yea. And then have you guys eaten
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: any of the meat off the box that were killed
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: in Idaho? Yep? They're great? Yep yeah yeah, Kale, I'm
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: just ask if you had any final thoughts. I'm just wondering, Uh,
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: where are you taking me hunting next? Now? Your place
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: is burned out. I'm so sorry. I'll tell I'll answer that,
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: and I have some thoughts and questions but I'm gonna
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: not do them ungradulation and uh, lots of milestones to
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: come huh. And obviously, uh, when did you guys start
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: going out of state for hunts? Uh? My husband has
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: gone elk hunting for his whole life out of state. Um,
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: this was my first time. Nice. Yeah, but adding some
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: more days to the year, Yeah, that's a big thing. Yeah.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: Does he does he kill elkin Washington too? Yeah? And
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: then real quick, I'm going to ask you this before, Um,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: would you do you have interest or not in bear hunting?
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: I don't not an invitation, I don't personally you're a baker.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: Oh then the bear fat Yeah, yeah, I've done that
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: with a road kill. No, it wasn't a road kill,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: was a bear call. I've done sweet good. But I just, um,
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: I think we may be talking about this last look
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: at it and see a game animal. I've just yeah,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: I've done so much bear work, and you know, cub
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: counts and you're dealing with their cubs, and I just
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: just special. There's a lot of people I know that
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: are lifelong cold blooded hunters. You just don't want to
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: hunt bears. Man. They're like a lot of guys I
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: know they got a bear too, and my brother put it, uh,
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: one of my brothers put it. He quit bear hunting
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: when he got a bear and walked up to it
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: as his first sort of feeling because you know, the
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: hide is beautiful, right, so you can't ditch the hide,
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: but it's expensive to get him tanned. And you used
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: to be like sweet, you know, get the bear, get
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: the eat the bear, have a bear rug or bear
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: hide for whatever. He said. He walked out to one
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: and his first feeling was oh man, and he's like,
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: then I just knew I was done. I just knew
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: well the minute I calculated, like I gotta spend money
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: to get the two thing tan because it'd be wasteful
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: to that. And he just took that as his thing.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: That wrapping her up on bear hunt. Yeah that makes
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: sense because and you guys chime in obviously. But you're
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: seasoned hunter now, right, like ten years doing things a
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: hard way. That was a girl, and you've got some successes, right,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you feel like, um, now you're kind
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: of working up to something else. Um? Yeah, well, elk
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to getting my first elk um.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: We always putting for all kinds of tags. I'm I
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: really want to go moose hunting. I'd love to go
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: sheep hunting. There's tons of things I'd love to do. Um,
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: but I'm also just I just want to get um
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: good at high country mule deer hunting, because that's what
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: is Yeah, it's what you know. We've Yeah, I love
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: We've spend the summer scouting and hiking around in the
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: high country and um, yeah that that part has just
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: really got me in the getter and I'm want to
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: do that. So yeah, I want to get good at
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: that me too. Can you explain it last time? You
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: explain that sort of graph, the sliding curve that you
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: have for when the animal goes from yeah, food, and
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: then I forget what too. Yeah. So there's there's your
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: your and it's I imagine its being different for everybody.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: Got your x axis, which is a order of animals,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: and it might, for example, start with mosquitoes, something you
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: want to kill, and it might end with like your mom,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: something you really don't want to kill. And then there's
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: two lines and one is kind of your I think
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: of it as like, uh empathy, and that that line
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: climbs to a point where you're you cannot set that aside,
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: and you just could not kill something. And then there's
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: the want to kill, want to want to want to hunt,
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: wanna you know, engage in some sort of predator prey
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: relationship want to eat it line, And so where those
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: Internet sect is where things get fuzzy. Oftentimes that's maybe
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: a bears for people, it seems like, and then above
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: that as things you just couldn't bring yourself to to kill,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: and that that line for me, um gets blurry or
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: it gets the empathy line climbs when I've worked a
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: lot and and know a lot about and a species. Yeah,
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: I was thinking on the flight over here at a
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: very agitated gal that I was right next to um
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: for reasons unknown, and I had stewardess or flight attendant,
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: and I was working her tail off and uh, but
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: she like whacked me with the cart and I was
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: trying to avoid the gal to my right because she
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: definitely needed some space. But so I got whacked with
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: the cart really hard, and I kind of looked up
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: at this gal and she looked at me like, get
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: the hell out of the way. I just wanted to
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: ask her, when did you lose your empathy? Yeah? Probably
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't take long in service business sometimes, but that's not
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: necessarily just being around the critter that you're dealing with,
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: right right, Well, I mean I don't know, under understanding
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: and maybe um it gets harder to objectify them. Yeah,
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: like if you started squid, you make it burned out
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: and eat squid or find I'm not appetizing, but it
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be like, oh I studied squids so much that
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: I now feel real bad eating a squid, Right, I'm
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: not sure that would happen with a squid for me.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's like it has a different
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: kind Yeah, well yeah, so for like, um beavers, I
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: worked on a beaver project, a really cool project and
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: how for a couple of years that um it's still
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: it's still happening. It's a beaver relocation project, and a beaver,
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like, is one of those animals that people
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: um underappreciate, But through this project, I just um have
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: kind of a in love with them, just learning and
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: sort of taking time to recognize what they do. Because
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: this project, um, so our job was to there be
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: landowners that might call that live down on on the river,
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: on the ditch system or whatever, and they have problem beavers,
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: and so usually those are just easily removed. Well in
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: the Medhow, just like a lot of the West beavers
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: were you know, trapped out and UM yeah right yeah,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: and in a lot of places they've had a hard
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: time re establishing UM themselves. And so in the Medhow
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: there's all these high country creeks and stuff that used
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: to have beavers in them, creating a vastly different landscape.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: So we had these little creeks that would then have
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: UM just sprawling wetland beaver establishments, UM just sort of
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: punctuating these streams with all this fabulous habitat that is,
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: you know, waterfowl habitat, fish habitat, fawning habitat UM. And
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: then not to mention that those beaver establishments hold water
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: back and so the snow melt off doesn't just rush
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: off the mountain, and so everybody downstream benefits by a
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: slower release of the melt off every year, and maybe
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: that stream doesn't dry up UM. And there's also evidence
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: that that's holding the water in ponds. UM keeps the
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: creek at a lower temperature for for fish because that
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: water is sinking down into the ground. And when when
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: it comes up later, it's it's still really cold. Um.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: So the aim of this project is to take those
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: problem beavers and then um by live trapping them and
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: then we would um actually hold them in a fish
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: hatchery facility until we could get like a family group,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: um and then release them up in the high country
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: in areas that could benefit from basically restoration of the creeks. Um.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: And so we'd release them and hopefully they would they
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: would stick um anyway. But the point is is that beavers,
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like, are often really underappreciated, but um, they
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: are actually now I know, just nuggets of gold. Um.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: And so that's something that I personally maybe didn't think
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: about much before. But UM, my empathy line has has
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: gone way up for these these critters because what they
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: do is just so it's instant gratifications, the most important
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: it's the most important animal to American history. America was
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: built on that, right. Yeah, America's first homegrown millionaire made
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: his fortunes. Yeah, yeah, trading and beber hunh. Yeah, but
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: they're also really important for our landscapes. But yeah, Pooter, Andrew,
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: Andrew Pooter, do you have any final Um, it's been
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: interesting has been a pleasure to listen to your stories.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: It's feeling good about everything. Yeah, I didn't contribute much,
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: but I don't care. That's good to listen. I want
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: to make sure you have that you feel welcome to
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: good presence. Yeah, thanks, Yeah, I'm John already had my
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 1: closing thought. Cal I think I'm there too, don't. There's
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: some good stuff though, Carmen, Um, can I make a
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: b h A plug? That's great? So I, um, um,
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: you're just gonna make the rest of us look bad. Well,
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: I'm working on growing a little community of h members
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: in the Mahaw Valley because it is such a important
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: maybe you know, probably the most important mule you're hunting
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: place in the state. UM. And it is such a
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: unique landscape with those wilderness and everything else. UM. So
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: trying to get a b h a UM community sort
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: of established there. Um. And it's also BHA means back
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: Country Home, which is a nonprofit conservation group that uh
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: you tell them right, keeping public land public and um
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: and managed appropriately. And so we have an issue with
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: a mining company in the valley UM wanting to put
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: in a Canadian mining company wanting to put in a
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: big copper mine. On our our four service land UM
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: and so our Washington chapter is UM supporting a mineral withdrawal,
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: which is legislation that would protect uh forty million acres
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: of our headwaters from not only this copper mind but
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: any future mining claims and UM. Anyway, so our our
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: chapter is supporting this mineral withdrawal. UM. But I just
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: want to encourage anybody who is from Washington, especially if
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: they come maybe from the west side of the state,
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: to hunt out in the men how to UM check
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: out our Washington chapter and get involved. And we're gonna
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: have some volunteer stuff coming up this spring and UM
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: people who hunt out there can can work on the
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: landscape a little bit with us too. And a headwaters
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: issue is everybody's issue, because everybody's downstream. Yeah, good plug,
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. Carmen van Bianchi, that's right right, Thank
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: you for joining us, Carmen, thank you,