Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / A birth center birth, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a retroverted uterus, and a bifurcated placenta

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A birth center birth, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a retroverted uterus, and a bifurcated placenta · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something incredibly close to my heart, and that's maternal health. I've spoken a lot about my own experiences on this podcast, especially related to mental health, and how important it is to seek help, whether through therapy or medicine. But we all know that's easier said than done. That's where Mère comes in, a virtual maternal health care clinic serving women from preconception through menopause. Mère was founded by a mom, just like you or me. Who struggled to find the support she needed during her own maternal health journey and wanted to create a better experience for other women. Mère brings together therapists, women's health providers, and pelvic floor specialists who understand the unique challenges women face throughout motherhood. Mère believes women deserve care that looks at the whole picture, not just one symptom or one appointment at a time. Book a free 15-minute phone call today and learn more at Mère-ForEveryChapter.com. That's Mère M-E-R-E dash for every chapter dot com. Charlie: So much of the work I've done, I think, was like, was so scared of being pregnant and giving birth that I was like, let me learn everything I can and actually go into it as my career. so interesting. So we can back even that far out, but I do want to kind of touch on some of the pregnancy things that went on before birth itself. Okay, perfect. All right, let's jump in. Okay, let's do it Hello and welcome to the arrivals podcast. I'm your host Merelise Wilson and today I am so excited to have my friend and pelvic floor occupational therapist Dr. Charlie Watts here with me. Welcome to the podcast Charlie. I'm so happy to be here. It's so good to see you We've known each other for what like two decades. Yeah, it's like since middle school? Yeah It's good to see you and you have a 11 month old little boy. I do. my gosh. Jasper. Jasper. Love of my life. I know. I know. those little boys like they just it's that that mother-son love is so so special. Yeah. No it's been like it's been so magical. Yeah. Just like super grateful to be here. That's amazing. before you became a mom You kind of worked in the birth space for quite some time Started out as a labor doula and now you are a pelvic floor occupational therapist Can you tell me a little bit about how you got into that work? Absolutely. I have In my 20s, I was you know, as many people like completely lost Trying to figure out everything just throwing spaghetti at the wall. Yeah, and I'm still that way I've heard 40s are great. Yeah So during my 20s, I was really trying to figure out where I wanted to land. had been a full-time artist and I'd been teaching art and most of my family's medical. So I always knew I wanted to somehow branch like the creative with the medical. And when I discovered birth work, that was just really, I feel like it has that creativity and has that problem solving that I really loved. And so I was becoming a labor doula. kind of my first step into more like traditional healthcare. I had been doing like teaching yoga and had been leading women's circles before all of that. But with the birth work, it just really resonated. And we were talking right before too about how like, I almost wonder if me going into birth work was a trauma response to being totally scared of birth and the birth world and also giving birth in the American South. you know, it's very terrifying, but it's led me to training as a birth doula and some of those experiences early on of working with clients were just these liminal transitional spaces they were so powerful and I feel like I've already said magical like ten times but it is magical. Just so much magic happened and the births I supported were all pretty traditional hospital. But then COVID hit and my husband and I lost all of our jobs. And with the three clients I had at that time, when COVID hit, doulas were not allowed in the hospital. let alone one of my moms actually gave birth alone on her back in a mask, even without her husband. So that was my fear. was one of my biggest fears during my pregnancy. Yeah. But she, she did such a good job. I'm so proud of her, but, but it was like me on face time. Which is like not better than nothing, but not we are so through that experience of being kicked out of the hospital, I was like, what can I do to never get kicked out of the hospital again? And so I went back for my clinical doctorate in occupational therapy and like low key, picked occupational therapy above physical therapy because I am really invested in the mental health component of healing and occupational therapy looks at more of like the whole person. Not that that's to say not all physical therapists don't do that as well, but we are much more Aligned with like looking at the occupation how you occupy your day as opposed to like, know this is one body part doing this motion and Went back did my clinical doctorate which was So challenging. Yeah and especially going back as a second career like being a little more aware of the busy work that school is and being, it's like, no, no, no, I don't need to like respond to group questions. I need to like understand like how to get a frozen shoulder moving again. Right. Exactly. And then I need to graduate and start working. So while I was in graduate school, I also treat early intervention too. So like working with them, the little littles, like three and under. So that's also just been another like joyful thing to have in my life. But I always knew going into it that I wanted to do pelvic and really wanting to support birthing people has been at the core of like it's like you know just that purpose that sense of purpose and while I like loved my life in my 20s like purpose was not a word that came and just like supporting people through the transition and the portal into motherhood has just been incredible and I'm super grateful that my weird hodgepodge of skills can actually go towards something that's helpful. It's amazing. You know, it's so funny. I was thinking before you came over that it's wild how our very different paths have led us here, both to this world of birth work and passion and that like shared passion. it is so special. You mentioned being with a woman as she becomes a mother, becomes mother again. And it's so It's It's such a privilege. I have not ever been present for anyone's birth except my own children, but I always tell any friends if you want an unofficial doula it would be my honor. It's so cool. What was that like for you, like witnessing that before you became a mom yourself? Yeah, I wish I could go back and like put my brain in. There are many things that, especially going through my birth process, that I have changed, like opinions. Yeah, of course. That's okay. You're allowed to do that. the initiation into motherhood for me has been very informative. And a lot of the things I've helped clients, like clients with, I'm now in retrospect like, nope, I'm not going to teach that anymore. So I have, I usually teach for some people and it's, know, birth is so unique. So these are still things I'm going to tell people. I'm just not going to emphasize them as much. I always teach people that sometimes laboring on the toilet is helpful because for some people that's the only place those sphincters have ever relaxed in their whole life. So for some people that is the only place where like productive pushing is going to happen because like they have the cues of like, I'm in the bathroom. I connect with that part of your body. all makes sense. Yeah. I tried that during my labor. I was no way. It incredibly painful. It was so painful. It so uncomfortable. was, I had the same experience, but I did find, and my doula emphasizes too that it's, it's very productive. Like it's something about the position. It just really you open up, but it was some of the most painful. I think I had with my second birth I had two really big contractions on the toilet and I was like, I gotta go. think this is about to be game time too. It really did its job. And also just like pushing standing. Holy moly. So painful. the strength you have to have. So there's even like pictures of me on the internet like in the Captain Morgan pose like being like this is a great pose to push in. I'm going to tell people it is very productive because gravity is on your side, it was, whew, if I had to do that longer than I did, I don't know how much further I would have made it. I know. Honestly, if I could go back and do anything differently about my births, it would probably be that I would do more like strength training in my legs. Yes. And strength training is so important. it's especially as, you know, as in my elder age as a geriatric mother, you know, Just even like within the hints of perimenopause, like strength training is going to be so important. my gosh. Perimenopause. What a hot topic. mean, I won't like divert us too much, but my goodness, that's like my current hyper fixation is learning everything I can about perimenopause. Yeah. And I look with a lot of the symptoms I've been having now, it's definitely the juggle of is this postpartum or is this perimenopause? I know, I know because it's so similar. know. But anyways, okay. Okay, so you're doing all this amazing work in the birth world, working with moms, and then year time comes. Was it a conscious decision you and your husband made? What was that process, the journey like for you? Yeah, we, like you know, my husband and I just celebrated three years last week. Congratulations. you. And then 10 years of being together. So we, from the pretty early on, knew we wanted to have kids. And my husband's job required that he was on the road for like six to eight months a year. So he was traveling a lot. But then during COVID. you know, obviously a new world kind of emerged from all of that. And the timing was like, so I had finished grad school, I had started working and the timing was like lining up. So I was like, okay, I think, you know, this, should start trying. At the time I was mainly treating, it was an interesting mix of endometriosis and then a post prostatectomy. like I was actually working with a lot of men at the time too, which was really fun. to me because I don't advertise myself as someone who works with men but they just kept finding me. It's interesting. I had asked Amy Meehan when she came on the podcast if she works with men and she doesn't really work with men as much but it's a of people don't know that men benefit from pelvic floor therapy too. Or that they have a pelvic floor. have to tell my husband many times like you know you have a pelvic floor. Exactly. So I had I know more about the prostate than I ever thought I would. So at that time, but with like my endometriosis clients. there was so much either infertility or they were in IVF. So with all of them, and we were all like, you know, similar age, like that mid thirties. So I'd been around working with so many people in the infertility space. I'm really happy to report that all of them have babies now. so exciting. But the, I'd been in the infertility space. So I'd been a little aware of like things might take a little longer at my ancient, ancient age. and the fable of the of what, you were 33 when you 35, 35, yeah, yeah. So just very ancient. So I was very aware of that, so I had told my husband, I was like, let's give ourselves a year to try and not be too... Completely like not freak out. Yeah, and tell me just about it but then I threw like Everything into it. Like I was checking my cervical mucus. I was like testing LH all the time like temperature and We were both I bait by one of the things I really like to talk to people before they even conceive is like it's two parts So it's like you want to be healthy, but you also want your partner to be healthy as well So whether that's so So had him on like a crazy cocktail of like CoQ10 and like a bunch of vitamins and was making him work out. No, people always assume it's all on the woman, like in our health, our fertility, and it is not. No, not at all. so, and then also just doing a lot of education for him too. I had been in the space for a while. And then we got pregnant instantly. It was like the third month. I do think I had a missed miscarriage the month before and sometimes with those, when you have those miscarriages, it can sometimes pave the way for the next egg to be a little, have a little bit more of a fertile space. But like still something I haven't even really processed like in myself, of, that was such an early miscarriage. So there's like a lot of like guilt around even. about it sometimes because I have supported women with later stage miscarriages. So it's one of those early on in the body, the body's really intelligent at knowing what egg might make it. So it very much felt like with that particular one. And I think, don't quote me on numbers, but when you're in the age I was, usually about half of your eggs are not gonna have genetic. So it really was just this really intense experience the month before. Like I had never bled that much in my entire life and it was it like felt like my body was a thunderstorm. Yeah. Did you at the time, did you just think it was a heavy period? No, I had met with my family's all medical. So it was I didn't have to like... do anything about it, with, like we have doctors and OBs and pediatricians in the family, I consulted with the family and they were pretty sure. So was more, it could have just been a heavy period, but it didn't, I've never had an experience like that. So that was kind of like month two of trying, and then month three was like bam. And it was so silly, because I was going to Spa Land that day, And like the night before I had been like really kind of weepy and like weird. And I went to Atlanta Humane Society and held every puppy. Did you come home with a puppy? No, didn't. I'm shocked picked, there was one that was like, this is my soul dog. I'm going to bring this dog home, but it got adopted. Like, mean, so it, the timing didn't work out, but I was like there and I was by myself. I wasn't with my husband, which is like, we had been looking for a dog. And so I was kind of cheating a little. bit because I was going by myself to look at puppies and I was like I just need to hold a puppy. I to fix. And then literally the next morning I was going to a Korean spa with a big group of friends and I was like well let me just check to see if I'm pregnant because early on in pregnancy it is important not to get overheated so I was like let me not go bake myself in the Korean spa for a day. And so I had that was meeting like 10 friends at this Korean spa and then I take a pregnancy test and I was just like Did you share the news with them or did you? I accidentally did. So, I was like in total shock. And then I come out of the bathroom, because it wasn't even like, I didn't even think I was pregnant. And I'm someone who I consider myself like deeply intuitive. And I was like, I'm going to know. And it was like, I had no idea. I was like literally just trying to test for safety reasons. And I like come out and my husband's like asleep. And then I go, and he like pops up. And he's like, what's wrong? What's wrong? And then he's like, you're pregnant. And I was just like, and then we're just both sobbing and just so happy. but I called a friend to be like, I'm not coming. And she, like very close friend who's the godmama of my baby, but I was like, I'm not coming to this pond. She's like, you're pregnant. And I was like, I was like, I was like, yes. And then I her fiance in the background go, But then I ended up accidentally having to tell everyone because everyone at the Korean spa that day were like, you have COVID. Can you let us know if you have COVID? Because they assumed that I just had COVID. And they're like, can you just let us know if you have COVID? And I was like, it's not COVID. You can't get this. And then that was kind of obvious. You can't get what I have. I did not wait to tell people at that point. I didn't either with my close friends. was like, they'll be there for me no matter what. So literally that day. We told basically everything. Amazing. And then what was pregnancy like for you? Pregnancy was really hard. And it was deeply, deeply challenging. It was an incredible amount of pain, incredible about amnesia, like literally the next day the projectile vomiting started and really didn't let up. I was never diagnosed with, hyperemesis, like, like HG was definitely close by. and was really tricky with the work I do, because I'm one-on-one with an hour with clients, usually. So it very much impacted that. Early on, I birthed with the Atlanta Birth Center with midwife Kat, who is just, he has my whole heart. It's a he? cool, I haven't heard about him actually. I've a few Atlanta Birth Center births, but I haven't heard. Kat is incredible. I owe him so much. Because during my whole pregnancy, Kat kept being like, this isn't pregnancy related. A lot of what you're describing is it doesn't make sense. And I feel like a lot of people who are in more traditional, and it's no shade on the OB-GYNs, but they run in, they run out. They have two minutes with you. They don't sit with you. And Kat would sit with me for hours talking about what was going on and being like, like me being like, am so exhausted. And instead of it just being like, that's pregnancy. was like, no, let's constantly, let's check your thyroid. Let's check the vitamin D. And so most of my pregnancy cat was just very much like, this doesn't seem like just pregnancy. So the... throughout that experience, it was like as a pelvic floor therapist, I know all the things. it was like, like lots of pubic symphysis dysfunction. so like even knowing how to handle that, I was still having an immense amount of like lightning crotch. I was going to say what the layman's term for that. yeah, yeah. lightning crotch. And then like the ligaments around the front of my belly were just like on fire from like first trim. man. And I have a retroverted uterus, so I didn't look pregnant until like the very end. had to change my maternity photos twice because I was just like, I don't look pregnant. You're going be like touching yourself. It just looked like I maybe ate a burrito. That's so interesting. I have not been diagnosed, but I think I have the reverse because I like pee on a stick and look pregnant. I've always, I asked my midwife about it once and she was like, we don't really know why like some people show sooner. than others because my babies weren't big. But I didn't have a lot of extra fluid or anything, but she was like, it could be the way your uterus is positioned. And so I've always suspected that my uterus is more tilted forward than backwards because I truly look pregnant immediately. Yeah, it was funny when I was leaving work, like the last week I was talking to some clients and I was like, just you know, I'm heading out on maternity leave soon. And they're like, wait, what? It's wild. You're pregnant. And then I also had the, my placenta was on the front. So it was kind of an odd pregnancy experience to like not feel him move. Because when the placenta is on the front, there's just like almost like an additional cushion between you and the baby so you don't feel the kicks as much until they're bigger. I've had a couple of friends who've had that same experience. very strange. And then like early on with the... So when you birth with Atlanta Birth Center, they do a lot of the care in-house, but for like anatomy scans you have to go to a place that has that technology. I always knew I wanted to be in the midwifery care model. That had always been really important to me. Having a doula was almost more important to me than having a birth professional. But the dynamics of at birth center where everything is very calm and let's talk it out and then the difference between that and then I did model my anatomy scans and ultrasounds at Emory and just had some really experiences with the people there. Like the first funny one was the when we went in for... my 12 week scan, think, the tech was this like younger guy who just was so bummed out and he was just, it was like me being, I was like, at one point he was like, there's one leg or this would have been later. I don't remember exactly which scan he was like, there's one leg, there's the other leg. And I was like, thank goodness there's not three and like silence. you need to find a new job, buddy. This is not your, not your thing. It was just like, maybe you go over here like witness my miracle. you know, and I'm just being, unimpressed. not impressed. And from there, at one of those scans, they diagnosed me with a velomentous cord insertion, which is a very rare anomaly that happens where the umbilical cord does not insert to the placenta and inserts to the side of the uterus. I've never heard of this. It's very rare. It's very dangerous. Tell me what it's called again. Velomentous cord insertion. normally the umbilical cord inserts right into the middle of the placenta. And so the placenta can very easily transfer nutrients for the baby that way. when the cord is not inserted, it's more to the side of the placenta into the uterus wall. There's not a lot of space allowed for the nutrients to come through. And you just have to be really careful. because you're not getting proper nutrients to the baby, you have to do scans once a week. Yeah, and then also yeah, and then so and pretty much they told me you will have to have a c-section at I think it was a very early c-section like 36 weeks or something like that Well, I'm assuming it was the place where you were getting your ultrasounds that told you that not Atlanta Birth Because it's one of those things the technology has really only Evolved to know this is a thing recently. Yeah, that's a very specific thing to look at and my midwife had last Last year alone delivered three filamentous cord insertions and nobody knew until delivery and there was no issue. So it's more the thing to really keep an eye on with that is that later on is the baby can stop growing once they get big enough because then that pressure causes even less nutrients. that's usually so that was devastating to get that news and also just to have to because I was aiming for unmedicated water birth and to like have to switch all the mindset of, this might be a C-section and he might have, he might be small. He might be small. my gosh. I wish I could go back to myself and be like, it's gigantic. And so there was like about a month there where I was having to go in weekly to get scans. And it was an interesting dynamic. Cause you know, at, with the fetal medicine people, they are surgeons. Yeah, and very kind people. I had really lovely interactions, but it was like basically I was told you were having a c-section. There is no other option. And then I would go back to the midwives and they would be like, let's just see what happens. Let's just kind of like feel it out. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna do that. Fast forward two months, they had misread. They were misreading the ultrasounds. so placenta, like we'll get into it, but the placenta, there were issues, but it wasn't that. Interesting. Wow. Okay. So there was like two months of just like... like complete fear that he was gonna be small and you're gonna be forced into a C-section. Yeah, yeah. And then like having helped so many people recover from C-sections, like just knowing that that is, it's hard. abdominal surgery is a huge deal. And also just that, like I have been very aware in working with a group too to just like, treat abdominal, we treat C-sections. like they it's like one of the most common surgeries and There is no rehab offered immediately afterwards, which is insane. Like if you like tear your knee you're Automatically if you have like a laparoscopy like other like if you have your gallbladder removed You're immediately gonna get to see a physical therapist or an occupational therapist. I know This is this is one of those yeah that's the something that comes up a lot in my conversations and people and I never really occurred to me until I started getting into this space more, but it is one of the only surgeries where you aren't given physical therapy afterwards. Mind blowing. Maybe the only one. I don't know. Yeah. Of that intensity. And cause it's, it's a really dangerous spot for birthing people that zero to six week mark. And so if they're not immediately in rehab, it's, there's just a lot of danger. Cause it's one of the things like, so nurses are fantastic. The nursing population I have so much respect for. But most of the time, if they're looking at blood pressure, it's you. laying down or sitting, but with physical therapy and occupational therapy, we're gonna be looking at you moving to the bathroom, we're gonna look at you standing up and down, which can give a lot of cues to what your recovery is gonna look like. so I had, yeah, so all of this was in my mind of like, gosh, am I gonna have to be in the hospital? And so we... Finally, we got with Emory at one point, our final scan was at 36 weeks. He was huge. It was the opposite conversation. Now they're like, we're have a C-section because he's too big. But luckily, Emory at that point was like, you don't need to come back in. Which I was really grateful for, just because also with the ultrasound scans and the big baby thing, the ultrasounds are not great at picking up true weight when they're later in gestation at LH. So I was very grateful that they didn't make me come back because I was like, gosh, then they're going to say I'm a big baby and they're going to be right back to the beginning. I know. But throughout like my whole pregnancy, lots of pain, lots of nausea. the fatigue was very intense and I am in a position where I had all of the support. I had, like my doulas are my family now. They, Sherry and Michelle Fonte. and just the most incredible women having their support. They would be up with me at 3 a.m. on the phone. And then my father's a physician, my stepmom's a pediatrician. I had all this support. I was getting massages every other week from an incredible massage therapist. I was in pelvic floor therapy myself with Amanda Shipley, indicator, also incredible. So I had all this support and I was still... drowning. I am grateful that the clients I was seeing at that time, I think I was able to still give them the care they deserved, but like anything extra was like out the window. So like if I said I was going to email you something, it might take me a week. So it was, and it was, but it was fun. one thing I really loved, it was fun being pregnant and working with pregnant people. Cause it'd be like, there's actually four people in the room right now. And just. learning more tips and tricks from my own pregnancy, like how to support other pregnant people has been very useful. But yeah, then just going back to my midwife and her just being like, I don't think this is the pregnancy. Because when you're pregnant, people who've gone through this experience know your body's flooded with the relaxin. And fast forward to after my postpartum experience, like I have recently been diagnosed with hypermobility Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which is a connective tissue disease that essentially there is three types of collagen in the system. One is the really structural collagen that really helps support, and then I have more collagen three, which is the really loose. So when your collagen is looser, things like ligaments that should be supporting the body, muscles are having to compensate instead. So my pelvic floor, that relax and hit was gripping for dear life. And so it's called a hypertonic pelvic floor where there's a lot of tension. And because the muscles are having to serve in a way just to keep me upright. so because of that laxity, with the round ligaments up in the front, my round ligaments, like I feel like I need to... journal with them for a long time because they just gave out. They were just like, we're not going to do our job at all. So with the LR Danlos. Now in retrospect, knowing that, really wish I had known this as a teenager. Because there's so many things throughout my life. And also with Ehlers-Danlos, it's a constellation of diagnosis. A lot of people also have mast cell activation syndrome. I also have POTS, is posterior orthotic tachycardia syndrome. It's when the blood, because it's not just your muscles that are loose, it's not just your ligaments that loose, it's also your veins. structures in the brain are a little looser. So a lot of people within that constellation of diagnosis, lot of people who have EDS will also have neuro diversity too. So I have ADHD as well, which is like shocking to nobody. But, but also I was late diagnosed with that, like not really. one of these like suspicions I've always had, but so because, my artery and veins are not as supported as like someone else, it is harder for blood to return to my heart. So because of that, I have a lot of like dizziness. I black out when I stand up too fast and just really sensitive to extreme temperatures. so like all of that was going on without me having the clinical names for it. But when I was in the clinic working, I worked with a lot of EDS as well. And so many of these people I was working with, was like, hmm, yeah. That sounds like me. Like I run into doors all the time. Wait, as you're talking, I'm like, this is literally me. And it could just be like some like having some hypermobility is quite normal, but it is one of these really under-diagnosed things. so you weren't diagnosed with EDS until after you have after yeah but my midwife pretty much the whole time was like this I think this is what this is happening just because like the relaxin like I was just like a jellyfish What can you do if you're planning to become pregnant again? Like how do you what would you do different? your pregnancy now that you know. So the big thing I would do is strength training. We're kind of touching. Strength training is so important and it's also, I mean, I'm forgiving myself because I was so exhausted and I know birth loves movement. So it's, I knew this, like I knew this going in and I had, you know, seen like with some of the births I had supported like the difference between like some of my CrossFit girlies like having that strength was actually very helpful for their recovery. So knowing now it's just like that strength piece, which is lifting heavy is so important, especially like going into the perimenopause. Yeah. was like, aren't we just supposed to be doing that in general now? I've heard. Lifting heavy with the trick though, with lifting heavy with hypermobility is you need to stabilize the joints differently. Okay. Wow. So you're dealing with all of this. no idea why. And you have eliminated the need for a C-section. So that's good at least. Yes. Yes. And yeah. So the plan is to give birth at the birth center, low intervention in water. So fast forward and it's summer. It's hot. In the South too. And I really thought, again, I'm I'm so intuitive. I'm going to know. So he, because of that anterior, that placenta in the front, it was like, is there even a baby? in here. Like I feel terrible. Otherwise you wouldn't know. You see how people like don't know they're pregnant. you don't have it sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. Like this could have just been a really bad stomach flu. if it had lasted for 10 months. So like connecting with him was an interesting experience of like it really just more felt like something's just always making me sick. And then it was really funny. I had so many friends have been like, has he had the hiccups yet? And I was like, no. I, and then I was worried he hadn't had the hiccups. And then when I finally felt the hiccups, was like, that's terrifying. It's not fun. used to count them to fall asleep. My first one had hiccups constantly. It was like counting sheep. So yeah, like your whole body shaking. And so like fast forward throughout like my birth, it was really sweet. My husband did a lot of daddy doula classes. So he did a massage support class with me and then he worked with our doulas to prepare for the birth and then he took like it was one online class that I still we call it the daddy class. We just... It's not that it was useless, but literally the theme of the class was, don't leave her. You know, you think you don't have to say it, but you'd be surprised. So the whole class was like, she will have sex with you again. It was just like, no, I want him to know counter pressure. so we fast forward to, we went to a friend's This was at 39 weeks. And with, I just know for being in the birth world, first time moms usually always statistically are gonna go over 40 weeks. The 40 weeks is like... if you look on the data of why it's picked, it's very shaky. Yeah, kind of arbitrary. Very arbitrary. Especially for first time birthing people. And so I was prepared to go to 41, 42 weeks. things were, he, the whole time Jasper, baby Jasper was just a rock star. Like he never did, like other than the stuff with the placenta, like he never... Like once he started moving, he was always very good at always moving and being very predictable and like always had like powerful heart rate. So I'm very grateful for that. so I was like, I was prepared to go to 42 weeks, but that night I was, like at 39 weeks, was like, I was so over being pregnant. I'm just so tired. And so we were at this pool party, like I'm in the pool with like all my friends. And I think between being in the pool and floating and then being with my community and just feeling so much love. all the oxytocin. Yeah. And then also my good friend is Bosnian and we call them Bosnian meat fingers. So we joke that it was the Bosnian meat fingers. Like a massage? No, they're actually like sausages. That was your friend's nickname. I was like, I need to know more. He was serving pasta and meat fingers. Okay, so some spicy sausage. Yes, spicy sausage. And we don't mean the other kind of spicy sausage. So kind of between like all of that, we went home in at 2 a.m. I was like, those are contractions. And then, this is like Monday, 2 a.m. Contraction start, I text the doulas. They of course are like, go back to bed. You know drill. You know the drill. They're like, why are you up at 2 a.m.? And then contractions just kept getting closer and closer and closer. They were very, like I could always breathe through them, but the, like I know in like your birth story, like how movies have just brainwashed us in lot of ways. Because like I had contractions like four minutes apart. but they were still very light and it was, Basically, my duels were like stop timing. This isn't, these aren't, these you'll know. So because of the hypertonic pelvic floor I was dealing with and the connective tissue, it was really hard for Jasper to engage. And I had prepared myself to labor at home as long as possible. I did not realize I was going to be laboring at home for 66 hours. So one of the things about a birth center birth as opposed to a hospital one is you're only at the birth center to birth. Right. I've heard that. don't. Yeah. So you are only there when it is go time. Yeah. And you don't stay very long after, right? You don't. No. So usually most people are there for six hours. And then so that's like kind of the average. And like, you know, that's also kind of the point because, you know, recovery at home is always going to be better. Right. Exactly. You don't need to be somewhere else. Yeah. And so with All of that in mind, I knew all of that going in, but in retrospect, like laboring at home with, so I was with my husband and my sister who did an amazing job, but in retrospect, I should have had my doulas come sooner than they did because on the third day of that, was getting, it was so funny in my head, I was like, gonna be on my yoga ball under my pecan tree. And then, no, I was puking, I was sobbing. contractions were very intense for days. not even prodromal labor like you were in active labor for the beginning was probably prodromal but moving moving into active forever So with, was able to sleep the first night, but the second night we were up the entire night, like every contraction, like I needed that counter pressure. I needed like someone holding my hand and the, we woke up on Wednesday morning and the doulas were like, why don't you just go into the birth center just to see what's going on? And, I, had this whole setup of like, had like headphones and like an eye mask and like a blanket that I wrapped as we drove. like driving was very uncomfortable. like every little and then Judah of course was going like a million miles. So we, knew we weren't, I knew they probably wouldn't let us stay, but we still went into check. and it was like having these like horrific, like the contractions just like rolling back to back. so intense. Why didn't you think you were further along in labor? guess. Why did I think, that is a really good question. Cause that sounds like true. transition. I'm I wasn't having the feeling the need to push at all. I... and then I also... there... so with my doulas it's always like changes in bowel movements. Bloody show. Water breaking. Right. So like none of these things had happened yet. So and like it was funny at one so many people like have you your bloody show? Yeah, for those who don't know when you have a mucus plug that when your cervix opens it can come out sometimes as like leaking blood, but sometimes it's like This blob. I know you can really be yeah. So somebody people could be like, have you your bloody show? Yeah, I was like I'm gonna show you a bloody show So that hadn't happened yet was I think the main reason I and like the doulas I worked with I think I'm like there talking thousands of babies that they've been with. I think it was mainly them being like. their guidance. And so we get to the birth center, which was like, I'm so grateful we were able to do that because you know everyone. Like I, I mean, there was like two nurses I didn't know, but like all the midwives I knew. The midwife I worked with for my actual birth is the one I had the least amount of time with, but the like cat came and stayed with us for a while. Danielle, who was a midwife assistant who had seen a bunch, she was there for a while. So just like having people you knew was really powerful. It makes you feel safe. Yes. And so we get there and of course they're like, I'm in so much pain. And they're like, you're two centimeters. no, two centimeters? So they were like, you can't stay. They were like, we would love for you to be like, you can't stay. So at that point I hadn't slept. So they gave me bandicated rest, which is a shot of morphine and promethazine. OK. So. which was like, so grateful I was able to, because then I was able to go home and take a four hour nap. Yeah, that's awesome. I've never heard of that. It was just like having that nap, like set my birth up for so much success. That's nice that they were able to like give you some relief. And I also think it's like the, one of the misconceptions of like you can have like an You can still have medical support at births and right, right? I'm like we were gonna use air and gas like yeah, we were able to do that. They do have injectable painkillers, but you just want to be really careful with those just because they can make the baby sleepy, right? So this was far enough away from when I was gonna be in labor that we knew it wouldn't affect him as much That's amazing. I've heard several moms say on the podcast before like they ended up getting an epidural because they were exhausted and they needed to rest. so it's just nice to know. mean, the reason I'm doing this podcast is it's nice to know there are other options. And I hadn't even heard of that one. So put it on your list, ladies, of things to ask for before you go to epidural if you don't want one. And in hospitals, it's going to be IV medications. Like this one I had injectable because I didn't have IVs in for my labor. And so I was able to go home and sleep. And that was just like so magical. And then I had the most stereotypical, like I woke up and was like, my water is breaking. Like out of this like, and I had the gush, like I had the undeniable, like that was my, it was like water bloody show. Like it was like, okay, this is go time. think your body's needed to relax a little like that? rest. Yeah. you know with like birth loves relaxation and movement and I was not doing that. I was very tense. So we, get my headphones and my eye mask back on and we head back to the birth center which felt like an hour drive when it's like really 12 minutes from the birth center and we get there, we get admitted. Technically they I can't remember where I was. I was right on the edge of when they actually admit, I can't remember if that's like six or seven centimeters. And then we get in, they do another stress test. Jasper's just a rock star. No fear at all from him. In retrospect, had the day I had gone into labor, I had had a chiropractic appointment and a massage booked that day. And in retrospect, I should have gone. Yeah. Because the being in labor land for that long was. was exhausting. that's for the Atlanta Birth Center, that's one of the bigger causes for transfers. It's not like any emergency, it's just exhaustion. And also there's a lot of, well this is a whole tangent, but with Atlanta Birth Center, a lot of the limitations that we have is not because of the Birth Center, it's because of laws in Georgia. Just because Georgia, it's very odd how anti-birth Georgia is in terms of the way we treat our midwives, the way we treat our birth centers. Yeah, our mother, yeah. you can go to Florida and like there's midwives everywhere. Yeah. I've heard that from several people in the birth world, especially midwives, people who work with midwives. It's very hard to become a midwife in Georgia. And it's very hard to be a home birthed midwife. Very hard. it's like, they're criminalizing those who like barely like not even step out of line. it's like, why are we going after midwives when, when they're saving lives? Yeah, literally. And so we are finally there and they're like, okay, and I was like, they got, and then that's when my doula Sherry arrived. And when Sherry arrives, Sherry arrives. It was like the whole vibe shifted from like me being a little, this was like the right before we left for the second time. Like I was a little, that was the first time I felt scared. Like not the, you know, 66 hours of being at home, but that was the first time I was scared. And it was really sweet. My husband, memorized the dialogues from the birthing parent book or the yes that birthing partner birthing partner from that book he like literally I knew he was just reciting scripts but it was so helpful it was just like I'm not going anywhere I'm here my husband is has been like you know personal training circus background so he can get a little like go go go which if he had done that to be during labor it would have been yeah so but he did such a good job at being just like I'm here like it's beautiful and So he had done such an amazing job, but when like Sherry arrived, was just like, Sherry's here. I remember it's like, was talking about this with my husband with, when we were pregnant the second time and trying to decide if we were going to have a doula because we didn't have one the first time it's COVID. He was like, well, we did it together the first time. And I thought you said I was great. And I was like, honey, you were great. You were amazing. But you've only seen one birth. it's just, there's just, it's a different type of support, different level of support. Leather doula Yeah, and it's I'm so grateful. One of the jokes with Sherry and Michelle is people will call them before they tell their partners that they're pregnant to make sure they're available. That's amazing. And Sherry has a really deep connection with the birth center she's been with them since the beginning. It's awesome. Just her strength and just she came in and like looked at me and I'm like arched over and like in so much pain and she was just like squeeze my finger. Yeah. Squeeze it harder. And then I was just like, just so much relief. And so it was really important to me to try to do a water birth. In terms of comfort measures, hot water is my everything. I've been that way my whole life. To maintain the body I'm in, I need a lot of just soaking. And so that was really important to me. But I was also very aware it's really hard to do water birth in Georgia. There's a lot of red tape between you and yes. so there's very few. It's North Forsyth and there's a couple tubs at Emory Decatur. very most places will let you labor in a tub. And this is only if there's not even a hint of a complication. So we, and then there's also, takes a long time for the tubs to fill. So a lot can happen. we, once you're in, you have to stay in, right? don't know about Birth Center. I know with hospitals, they have a ton of rules. So we did our 30 minute stress test, everything looked great. At Birth Center, they do intermittent monitoring, I only had the, you wouldn't even, there was a couple times I didn't even know they were monitoring. So I was able to move the whole time, which I, Sherry and Judah were so supportive and I was up, I was down, I was in the shower, I was on the toilet. was moving all around was like on the birthing stool in the shower. So we started in the shower and the that's when we I tried some standing contractions, which I'm when I teach birth prep, I'm like, yeah, gravity, like gravity support you. my God, screw gravity. Like it was so painful. So painful. And I can't remember if we were talking about this before or if we were talking about it during a, but just like I was like teaching, I taught so many people like the Captain Morgan pose. And then I tried that for two contractions and it was like, my gosh. I just remember my legs shaking. Like I was like, yeah. And then we were, one of the things I didn't prep for that was interesting in retrospect that I would recommend is I was using air and gas during, for the contractions. When you're using air and gas, this is a pain relief that it only lasts for like 30 seconds and then you're, it's out of your system really fast. But you have to time it really well with your contractions. If a contraction is already coming, it's not going to do anything. And then you also have to breathe in and out through a tube. So you don't breathe. It's just not a normal way to breathe. And I had done a ton of work around breath work. I had done a lot of self-hypnosis work beforehand. All of that went right out the window during labor. I had prepared all this breath work. But when you're using air and gas, it's like you're literally like breathing in the tube and out through the tube, which is, it was just hard to figure out with everything else that was going scuba diving. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, actually. Exactly. Yeah. In many different ways. Yeah. Very similar. It's like in a place you don't know. And so we started in the shower and so I was doing air and gas in the shower and like the hot water was so helpful and it was just me and Judah for most of that. And then they just come and check on me. At one point I did ask for the medicated rest again, because I I was like, the first time it caused me to go this, like surely if I do it again, they'll, it will be like, I'll wake up and that'd a baby. And I, they were like, no, it's too close. You can only do that. I forget exactly the spacing, but you can do air and gas. One of the things I was a little annoyed about my husband at one point, he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down on the air. Yeah. And then my doula was like, don't tell her to slow down. Don't tell her to do anything right now. not. It's like, no, like any pain relief you can find just because contractions were, they was, you know, we talk about the waves, but it was. It's, you can't even, it's hard to prep for this. There's like no way of explaining it and the like, the power of that experience. There's just no way of recreating that for someone. Yeah. You can, you can explain it, you can show it, but just like when you're in it, it's, it's. know, psychedelic almost. At one point I was birthing on the toilet, which is another thing I'm never gonna teach people. I'm gonna teach people about it, with the pelvic floor, one of the few places it can relax for some people is on the toilet. So I'm always encouraging people to do some labor on the toilet, it's, man, that was so painful for me. But I did have this experience where I was reversed on the toilet, the wall and I had Danielle the midwife assistant had one hand on one shoulder and then my doula had her hand on my other shoulder and like I in that moment felt like all the women in my life and in my ancestry like just behind me all like all the people who have supported labor and had been it just like I felt like the room filled with like we have been doing this you know forever. was a really beautiful experience. then from there, I was like, get me off this toilet though. Like that was a beautiful moment, like give me a god's toilet. And then we were transitioning from there. Then I was going to try to labor on the yoga ball on the bed. And at one point I didn't exactly know how to get my body comfortable. And I go, what do I do? And my husband goes, I don't know. And I'm like, I'm not talking to you. I'm not asking you. Sherry, do I do? And the room I was in at the birth center was this really beautiful four-poster bed. Everything was white. I don't know why they do that. right? So I'm on the bed for maybe one contraction. And then I look at Sherry and I'm like, is there any way I can rest? And she was like, well, do you want to rest or do you want to meet your baby? And I was like, OK. Do you want to meet my baby? Yeah. So this had been like about an hour of us being at the birth center. And so then the tub was ready. And like the moment they're like, you can get in the tub. was like, in the tub, like jumping cannonball. It's like, me that tub now. And the immense relief of just being in that hot water. And I was just fully able to relax and just be, and then contractions completely stopped. And so I was just in the water, like floating. And then it was this really wild shift of if I wanted to push, it was not, it was I wanted to push. Because it wasn't with contractions. It was like moments where I'm like, OK, now I'm going to push. And so just like being in the water and being, was just so... like such an altered space of like deeply shamanic of just primal of just being in the water and then My husband got in the tub with me, and so he was supporting me from behind. The other funny thing that happened during this time though, I spent hours on our playlist. they were using my husband's phone to the playlist. My husband does not pay for premium. So we had ads for Liberty Mutual. my God, that would have killed me. For Arby's. That is not the vibe. That is not the vibe. The music was like, a lot of the music I played was like music that our friend made for us. So this very powerful, these songs that have a lot of, that we sing together and very important music. then Liberty Mutual. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. And so I was just like, my gosh, are you kidding me? so like with being in like the midwifery model, there was like a couple of times where like everyone just kind of like left the room. And it was just me and my husband in the water together just to kind of see if like Jasper wanted to come out, just the two of us. because you know, there's, you know, what I forget exactly the saying, like, you know, matter witness behaves differently. So it's... They gave me a lot of space at one point. Were they worried about your contractions stopping or was it like a good stop? No, I don't think they were worried about that per se at that point. They, honestly, I never felt anyone be worried until right after he was born. So everyone was so sweet, everyone. My husband gave me... Like he teased me so much because I like my positive birth affirmation so his thing was always like my birth will be effervescent and beautiful and My doulas I worked with I had asked them like what do you think of like positive birth affirmations? And they're like yeah, you can do that right? And so at one point one of the nurses did say like let your cervix open like a flower like made eyes with my doula and And I thought that was like funny. And it was also just very sweet interaction, but know that I feel so grateful. No one said anything the whole time that like hurt my feelings or took me out of the experience other than Liberty Mutual. I, so we had been in the tub for about an hour of pushing at this point. And there's definitely a vibe shift at this point where, and I'm lucky, I feel lucky that I was so in labor land that Like, Judah later told me, like, yeah, they were worried about shoulder dystocia at this point. We knew he was going to be a bigger baby. Judah was huge. His brother was 11 pounds. My husband was 10 pounds. So I was six pounds and some change. So I had been talking to Jasper. I was like, Jasper, you can like maybe split the difference. Right? No. And so they had been worried about shoulder dystocia and he was also turtling really bad. where he would come out and then go back in. And so that was so surreal to like... feel him when he was starting to like, cause at some point they were like, feel your baby, like to hope they maybe encourage. And like when I felt the top of his head, I was like, cause it's so wrinkly and it feels like, like the Lugay vaginal tissue. was like, wait, is my vagina just falling out right now? Is that what's happening? and then like we, it was funny at one point they were like showing the mirror, but like, you know, when you're in the water, it's, it, it gets a little, Distorted? Distorted. So, know, when we look in the mirror, it was like, look in the mirror. I was like, yeah, I totally see nothing. Yeah. It's just like stuff in the Yeah. I'm very proud of my husband. He's not great with like blood, pee and poop. And he great. He did great because he was swimming in it. I know. I always wonder that too. Like, like the pictures from water births, I usually notice are black and white because like, there's a lot of stuff. And I'm always very impressed with men who are just totally chill about getting in the water for that. He did such a good job and it was just like I had so I had done a lot of pushing prep Yeah, and I knew pushing on my back for me personally was a no-go because it was super weak But at this point it was so nice to just be in the water and lay back on him and originally we had planned on him catching the baby and so that was like the one thing I was like, well if he's back they can't get really good. But then things were just you know, they yeah, we're stalling out and like I really only it was this interesting experience of like when I would push it was almost like going deep inside of myself and being like okay now I'm gonna push. Right. You weren't feeling like the urge to push. No. Not at all. Which can happen when you go into hot water sometimes. So finally it's been about an hour and like there's definitely some you're feeling a little bit I'm feeling a little bit more pressure to like okay like now it's time like at one point I had like started praying and my doula was like that's nice but let's get back. It's just like, it's like, yes, we all love Mary Magdalene, but let's like, let's come back into the room right now. So We kind of like, we're in this stalled out phase. Okay. I didn't hear shoulder dystocia. like I, that was definitely a big fear of mine. just cause like, you know, also if we had to transfer at this point, that would have been, that would have been really hard. but then Sherry, so Judah's behind me. I'm laying on my back in the water just cause like, that's just what I needed in that moment. And then my doula is like right outside the tub in front of me. And she looks at me in the eye and she goes, I need you to shoot that baby over my head. And that's what. clicked. Yeah. That was just like, all of a sudden I was like, I can do that. you're like, I got a visual. And so then Sherry, from above the tub had both of my legs up and then she cranked them kind of, sideways too, just to allow more room on the left side. And then Jasper was like, that's when he came out and then he came out head first. And then I was able to like, I knew I paused for a while at the head. and then slowly birthed the rest of his body. to like reduce tearing. it was, so then it was like a big flurry of activity of them. The midwife was there and she put him on my chest and he just looked right in my eyes like and was just like the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. I just got chills. And it was just this, he was so quiet though so that was like he was just so quiet and just looking at everything and just like. I was just like, that can be okay though, right? Like, yeah, that's not necessarily a bad thing. No, not at all. And it's like, you know, that's one of the whole, like, you know, people rubbing the baby down and like all this. It's no, he was breathing. He was like coming into himself. He was just like, and he's still to this day is that baby so curious and just so just like taking it all in. Yeah. And it was just that was like, you know, probably the happiest moment of my entire life. Yeah. I was like meeting him and he also came into the world fully inflated at nine pounds four ounces. my god so much for that little baby concern. No he was huge. He was the biggest baby my midwife had delivered. Wow. Yeah. And so he ended up not having shoulder decision? not at all. Great. was it just he had what he did have was a 95th percentile head. I've got one of those. And he also decided he wanted to be born like this. so he had a little what is that called when they have their hand up? my gosh. I'm gonna totally blank. Yes, yes. He had his hand up by his face. Yeah, so that was, so just, you know, things had to stretch a little bit more. Like other than that was just quiet and perfect. my God. Like he looked like a baby when he was born, not pure alien. Yeah. And you have, how was everything? Did you have a tear? So minimal tearing, but the thing that got really hard and like I'm still unpacking now is so it turns out I didn't have a development as cord insertion, but I did have a bifurcated placenta with a six inch umbilical cord. So incredibly short umbilical cord. And then my placenta like looked like two elephant ears. Okay, so I've had someone on the podcast who had a bicornate uterus, but I haven't heard of a bicornate placenta. Yeah, so it's literally like looks like two ovals and then an upcoming dealer. And because it's a more unique shape, I retained some of my placenta. I didn't deliver the entire placenta. And so the cord was so short that they put them on my... It was one of those funny things I remember. They put them on my chest and the cord is so short that like it felt like wearing a string bikini. And because the cord was so short I think the placenta got yanked instead of like letting it go. And so I pretty much immediately delivered the placenta and when the placenta was delivered, the room completely changed to like, no, like I just started hemorrhaging like really, really badly. And... They, so I'm grateful I had that moment with Judah and Jasper and like that was really beautiful. But you know, as soon as I delivered that placenta, the, was, it was very scary from that point on. so I had been like, I'd had done the air and gas, but at this point I had to had like no medication. and like was trying to go for as unmedicated rebirth as possible. And it was like an interesting experience to have like a very unmedicated birth postpartum. Like it was like. Pitocin, Pitocin SciTech, like the one that starts with a G that I can never remember. Like, you know, and it was, I remember at one point with like my doula, asked like, hey, like, do you think we should do the Pitocin? And it was like, yes. So you still had like, you were still like, had your wits about you. Yes. Yeah. I was still very present. And so I got from, so I'm holding Jasper from the water, have this really sweet moment where all the women are like helping me get out and like get onto the bed with him. try to keep Jasper on my chest throughout this whole experience, but then, so I'm like laying on my back with Jasper, but I'm kind of like in a way that like, I'm facing the side of the bed so that they can like assess what is going on. And the bleeding just didn't stop. And like lemon sized clots were just like shooting out. So. They basically did everything they could do within the scope of the birth center. like just shot after shot. And then they would get the bleeding to stop and then it would start again. And so at this point I'm like, okay, I can't, I need to just. check out, I just need to leave my body for a while. So I hand Jasper to Judah and one of the, so they're sitting near me. It was really funny because I wanted to do a breast crawl and Jasper got to do a breast crawl, but on Judah. So I'm like watching him do a breast crawl and Judah, I'm like, what? And breast crawl I assume is like where they kind of make their way up to the nipple naturally. So he got to do that, he didn't get what he wanted at the end. So at this point, I can use the nitrous. So one of the other issues with hypermobility in general is you are more likely to hemorrhage. And so this is like one of the big things I wish I had known ahead of time. I might have considered some of my options differently just because with the hypermobility, you're just not gonna contract back as fast as someone. And then I also had, didn't realize this, I hadn't peed the whole time. So they cathed my and I had like 500 milliliters. Like a bladder normally is full at 300. So they did that. I'm surprised you weren't in more pain. You put the adrenaline in everything. It's just like... And so, no actually, so... So they capped my bladder and then they had to do a fundal massage, which was the most painful thing about the entire experience. So the reason they do that is your uterus contracts down after birth to stop the bleeding. Mine was just not contracting at all. So it literally felt like the nurse was gut punching me over and over again is what that felt like. Then between like that, like the bladder catheter, and then the midwife then had to do a manual removal of parts of my placenta, which is like actually them gloving up and going up inside of you. didn't have an epidural or anything? No, I was completely lucid at this point. And then the other problem with being hypermobile is that certain drugs don't work as well. like, lidocaine is not, like you have to do higher doses of things. So at this point I did know I was hypermobile. So they did know, like with some of the pain medication stuff afterwards. for like, for that part, they knew to do that. But at this point I had the air and gas, so I just kind of like checked out with that for a while and just like floated. then at one point I was like, are there a bunch of angels on the ceiling right now? And I was like, time to come back. And it was like, at that moment I was like, if they don't stop the bleeding, if it doesn't stop in the next couple of minutes, I'm telling them to transfer me. Cause like I, I felt myself leaving and I was like, I'm not leaving this baby. So luckily that's literally when they were like, okay, we're safe, you're good. There's no more bleeding. And then I had like one stitch in my left labia from where he had like torn. So like not even a one degree. But just like that whole experience was... Very scary and I'm super grateful for the hormone dumps because I don't remember it, but my husband really, it's like one of those, for him and the experience, it's so hard for a lot of our birthing partners because all of a sudden, he's with this baby alone and everyone is, all the attention is on me and it's like, he's watching the love of his life bleed out. it was really scary there for a while. But then after all of that, finally was able to get Jasper on my chest. The come down from the meds was like shaking heaven. Like I was just shaking. So they were just like piling blankets on me. I knew it wasn't cold, but I knew it was the, but just like shaking, shaking. So then finally we got to have our golden hour, which was really sweet. And like we're, they had get us all wrapped up and cuddled and, but the funny thing was I made them at one point I looked like under, so like Jasper's on my chest and Judah's next to me with a big blanket over us. And then I looked And Jasper had pooped all over both of us like I don't know how like this tiny little baby had so much maconium. So much maconium, so sticky. just like everywhere. was just like one of these things like okay we just can't Were you like time to check out at that point? And then one of the funny things that also happened that I didn't realize was going on, it was the... anniversary night at Birth Center for their, and they were having a huge party. my god. And you're in your, like, I'm in this I'm in this room. my god. There's, like, I think, I forget how many, there's like 40 people right outside the door apparently. And one of the things during labor that I did that I know you're not supposed to do was I was screaming at the top of my lungs. Like, I know you're supposed to go low. I know it's like the moaning, the like, going as deep as you can is important. I screaming at the top of my And so I was joking, as this huge party's raging, it's like, this is what we do. And it's like me movie screaming. So did you end up staying a little bit longer because of the hemorrhaging? Did they want to transfer you to the hospital? No, it never came up, actually. The head midwife was called, so that was kind of like the first round, like, get the most senior midwife here. But that was, I don't think they ever thought they were going to have to transfer. Was there, was any of the hemorrhaging, do they think related to the short and vocal cord and the tugging on the placenta? I think part of it too. think it's more than the tugging. It was the shape of the placenta just because it was, it just didn't come off as easily because it was such an odd shape. But it's also, yeah, you can't really know. I I think part of the beauty, I know it can be frustrating in those moments, but I think it's part of the beauty of birth is there's still so much we don't know and we'll probably never know about what happens. in those moments. And the other question I was going to have is the umbilical cord. So where was it in the placenta? It was right in the middle. Right in the middle. was supposed to be. But because the placenta was like shaped strangely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And my husband did get to cut it, which was, and we did get to do the delayed cord clamping, which was, I'm grateful that like that wasn't even something I had to fight for. It was just like, no, that's just what we do. Like, know, didn't have to bring scientific studies in with me to be like, look. Right. I know. know. So he did get to cut the cord. He did not get to catch because it was such a flurry of activities. So then, we had to stay overnight. we, when you have a hemorrhage, you stay for an additional 12 hours. Usually it is, you can say for six hours and then they'll kick you out, but we had to stay overnight. I, which I was grateful for that. were able to like, you know, have healthcare nearby. We little more stable before you were. Yeah. Yeah. And then 7am the next day we got to go home. was a little family. Start life. And Jasper the whole time was perfect. healthy. Like yeah, he was quiet. Like he didn't really, being quiet was a little alarming. Like he didn't really cry until he was like two or three days. Yeah. There was definitely like, you know, the sweet baby squeaking. Yeah. Not the like loud newborn cry. gosh. So think for like Apgar, he did get like one point off for that or something like that. But it was funny, Mahidula teased us because we brought all the wrong things to the birth center. What did you bring? So like for birth center, don't really need, what you need to bring is one big meal for yourself when you're done. Okay. Which we brought a ton of snacks. Yeah. And we brought a ton of like outfit changes and we bought like clothes for the baby. And cause like we were like, if you have to transfer to the hospital, we want to have everything. Right. Like when you're at the birth center, you don't like they have everything there for you. So she was teasing us that we had like a suitcase with us. So. my gosh. That's so interesting. So I mean, I know you said you're not really working as a labor doula right now, but I'm sure you just are keeping a list of like everything that you've learned. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And then how has like, how has giving birth impacted your practice as a pelvic floor occupational therapist? Yeah, I think I said this earlier, but like just I wish I could take my brain now and put it in my brain back then. Just there's so many like comfort measures that I'm so much more confident in. it just like the, think training the birthing partner is almost as important as, well not yet. It's, I think it's a very important thing and it's one of the things in my practice now that like, if you work with me, our second session is always going to be you and your birth support person. So, just cause like that for me was so important. having Judah there was, I cannot imagine doing this without him. And then just like my, was already a huge advocate for doulas and now it's just like, it's like almost a non-negotiable for me. I made such a difference. And like, I am sad that like I've had some clients have horrific experiences with their doulas, which I'm like really upset about, but it's cause you know, you still, need to do your due diligence. Like it's, it's like dating. You need to go off to coffee. actually broke up with a doula before I gave birth. I didn't have a good feeling about it. Yeah. I a different one. And really like, that's awesome. But you honored that because a lot of people are like, well, it's already so hard to find it Yeah, sometimes depending on and also your financial situation. Yeah, like if you're going through insurance you kind of like get who you get and it's but like overall like the The duals in my community are the most spectacular people and I'm gonna list. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. No, I Have a lot of opinions. Yes And then how so what was your pelvic floor recovery like with all of your knowledge? and then having gone through it. So with, because of the fundal massage, my abdominal wall was gone. So I couldn't really sit up for the first month, which made breastfeeding really, really hard. Yeah. Huge shout out to Jessica at Atlanta Lactation. Like she was like at my house the next day. And if it wasn't for her support, I don't know if I would have been able to, because it was just like, we were talking about the things you don't know until you don't know. Like I, my son had a lip tie and then I have very short nipples. Yeah, I know things you never think about but your anatomy, it's so interesting. we, that made breastfeeding really hard and then not being able to sit up comfortably was made it really hard and so like I had like super cracked bloody nipples for the first week. But who doesn't though? mean, my gosh. But luckily I had a ton of support like and my son also wanted to eat every 90 minutes for the first month of his life. So he's big boy. He to keep up. So we had night doulas too. So that was, I... do not know how we would have done it otherwise. Like it was, cause we were both exhausted. And you'd just gone through something really intense. mean, it's birth is intense period, but scary and intense for you. Yeah. I remember the first night home, I was, we had the white noise on and then like, I was so out of it that I kept like, the shadows kept looking like Hieronymus Bosch paintings where like all the little figures are like bopping around. I was like, why am I seeing paintings? That's hilarious. So like just having all that support, but because of the Ehler Danlos and the POTS, like recovery took so much longer than I ever could have thought. And like, like, you know, I have such the immense privilege to have family here, to have like medical support, to have like the financial support. So even with all of that, it was so rough, like the recovery and like, I barely tore and like the amount of pain from like the one tear, like I cannot even imagine. I work with lot of fourth degree tears, which is all the way into the rectum. can't even. I didn't even have tearing at entoritis. I just had stretching and bruising, and that alone was so painful. it was just preparing people. Birth is beautiful, but also just preparing people. I don't want to... I don't want anyone to be surprised how this journey can be. and yes, I've had clients who've had like orgasmic experiences with their birth and then like recovered the next day. So it's, really depends on who you are, but because of, the EDS, like my, like, and just having the looser connective tissue, it just healing took a really long time. And I was like, I'm going go back to work at three months. No way. Absolutely not. Like, like if I had to go back to work at six weeks, like I don't even know what would have happened? I know it's, it's insane that so many women have to do that. Don't have a choice. Yeah. Even going to like the pediatrician the next day that was so brutal. Like I cried the whole time. And then just like also just preparing people to like with my clients day three, day seven, day 10 have a plan. Cause like that's when the, so it's those huge hormone drops happen. And that was a very surreal experience. So I knew they were coming and it was interesting. on the third day postpartum, like Judah and I had this plan where it's like, it's just going to be the three of us, like, you know, just us and baby. We're going to have just like a really chill. No, no. It's like immediately on that day I was like, no, I need my mom here now. It's like, need our dual is here now. Right now. I know it's so interesting. I do feel like there is like, there's something to be said for, especially like right before you go into birth, like you have that feeling of kind of wanting to go into like your cave and like, you know, hibernate. But then after birth, I feel like we are missing that thing that was so innate for previous generations, I'm talking like hundreds of years ago, where we lived in like communities and that's like having your women around you, having those like the multi-generational living, your mom, your grandmother, like your sisters, biological or otherwise, there to like care for you and like nurture you and worship you in those like, especially those first 40 days postpartum. it's, yeah, it does feel like there's this draw, like this biological draw for us to want to have our people around us and we're so isolated in modern culture. hard. So isolated. Yeah, and it's even with I have a huge family. even with that, it's like it still was so isolating early on and it was funny. I had been very strict about for postpartum. I had like all of these agreements with Judah where I'm like this these people can't come like, know, these people can come like these people can stay this long. But if they start acting this way they have to go. And like after giving birth it was like no just let everyone in. Like it was so nice to just like have the whole family like having my brothers there, my sisters, like having like even the you know crazier aunts and uncles. It makes you feel a little more like human and normal to have all your people around you and you know and just to have you get wrapped up in your like postpartum world. Sometimes you need a little swift kick out. And then the Jasper was also he was like so quiet and he was like a sleepy dude. Yeah early on so to get him to breastfeed required a lot of like, stimulation. So one of my favorite moments was, everyone on my whole family was singing queen, like a queen song to try to keep him awake so that he could finish. my God. I love that. so it was like queen and to Prince and to Taylor Swift. know, it's like, it was just like, very necessary to have that support. And then it was also one of the biggest things that has changed in like my own private practice is with People can have support the next day with pelvic floor therapy. think there's this idea, like you wait until you're healed at six weeks, for especially those who have a vaginal birth and like, most babies, when they kind of like spiral down into the pelvis, they are in that left occiput anterior position. like the left back of the head is to the front. So that way. So, but because of that, that puts a lot of pressure on the pelvis on the left side cause essentially where our sits bones are, it can cause that sits, that left sits bones to splay out. when that splays out, like after the baby is born, a lot of times I've seen, and I've seen this over and over again, that bone doesn't come back. So because of that, all your muscles are stretched. So they're not going to be like able to heal as well. And then, so that's like something as a pelvic floor therapist, if like, if you can bring those sits bones back together and like go from this opening birth position, like into a closed one, it really helps. signal to the body that you're not birthing anymore. And just because like I've seen women 10 years postpartum where their bodies still are not sure if they're pregnant. So it's like this like energetic feeling of like your body's still birthing so it's really hard to heal if the body is confused because it's like the mind can lie to us but the body can't. So it's been a really interesting experience to like work with you know women either two days postpartum or 10 years postpartum. and how like that that ishial splay, if you can bring that together, it really signals to the body that it is safe, that we have like brought the pelvis together, it's closed, and it's a moment that can really just... let the body know that you made it. cause a lot of times people experience like with these huge birth, even if you have like a less traumatic birth, like it's, or even if you had like the best birth of all time, the, the body can like sometimes feel like it didn't make it through. And like one of the things I've really had to work on is cause like my son did get stalled on that left side. So I'm still having, I'm working through some muscle tension on that side in my pelvic floor therapist at one point. was like, does your pelvic floor know that Jasper's not still there? And it was just like... Yeah. And then those muscles released. Yeah. Cause they were still guarding. their mind body connection is so real. Yeah. So it was just having, having that knowledge has been very helpful for me. And even though like my recovery was longer, think without the support I had, would have like still been like, it's one of those things. I, one of the things to really know with any kind of hypermobility, you are more prone to prolapse, which is when the pelvic organs can fall into the vaginal canal. And especially if you're breastfeeding, cause the the lack of estrogen, keeps everything nice and plump, is even diminished. with... So kind of like the goal, if you are hypermobile, it's practicing your breathing with first time moms, like so purple pushing where you like do where you hold your breath and push. I tell first time parents, like, don't get mad at yourself if you have to do that. Cause sometimes you just have to do that. But it's one of those things. If you can work to try to do like that open throat pushing, that's going to help with like the pelvic floor canister of like the diaphragm pelvic floor, front back, keeping that canister moving with the breath instead of like just pounding all of the pressure and to the pelvic floor. So if you do know you have pretty severe hypermobility, it's just being aware that prolapse might be more common. And it's already something that is so common. It's like one in three people are going to probably experience prolapse. And just to know that there's a lot you can do with conservative methods. Wow. I did not know it was that common. And so many people, when I prepare them for birth, I try not to, how do I explain this? So many people don't know. it's a thing that can happen. And so it's like that dance of like understanding who the person who's in front of me is and like not wanting to alarm them. So not going like, are you having lightning crotch today? Or it's like more like, are you having pain here? know? Yes, I know it's delicate. But it's, so I've been super grateful to be in the field I'm in because just because for, especially with prolapse, like I knew exactly what I needed to do. And like I've already, so I had a grade two black and rectal prolapse. And I've already in 11 months gotten those down to grade ones. Amazing. Through pelvic floor therapy and wearing a pessary and using estradiol cream. Okay. So it's just like having all of that knowledge has like already decreased. Yeah. And like I might you know have some degree of prolapse for the rest of my life but it's already I'm completely symptomatic like have no symptoms. awesome. I mean it's I also think that for so long women have been taught to martyr ourselves once we come well in general but also Also, especially once we become mothers, physically, emotionally, all the things. And we'd ignore these feelings and these symptoms because we're just taught, you pee after you have a baby, or you're uncomfortable, or whatever it is. And it's like, there are so many things you can do. So many things. And yeah, the peeing thing drives me absolutely up a wall. like, I just kind of pee all the time now. I'm like, no, life doesn't have to be that way. Because that's one of the easiest things to fix, honestly. When someone comes to me with a stress urinary incontinence, so that's incontinence when you laugh, sneeze, cough, any of those. There's so much like we can do and like not you know It has to be the person in front of me like that's that one of the hard things like with public for three It's like so nuanced like I can't say do these exercises in this world, right? but that's kind of how it is. Yeah with like I've helped so many people with that one of the biggest like aha moments for me the first time I ever went to pelvic floor therapist was my after my first it was the pelvis probe Marcy true search. she was wonderful and she One of first things she taught me was that most people shouldn't be doing kegels. No, not at all. Yeah, like that's like the opposite and like I feel like that's you know for some I don't know how kegels whoever their marketing team is like I hire them because like everyone thinks you need to do kegels and it's like that can be it make everything worse actually if you have if your pelvic floor is too tight, which was my problem Yeah, and if you even look at back at like dr. Kegel at like what he was teaching. It's not what? It's not even that like yeah, and so because just with like it's I'm like one of the like general things like if you're going like this, if you're like, you're flexing your biceps super tight and then try to flex them more, you're not building muscles. You're just stressing them out further. Yeah. Just because especially, you know, after birth, like you had this huge stretch and then things are going to sometimes clamp down and contract really badly. So if we're just applying more and more pressure, you're not building strength. And it's also the whole like keep it tight thing. I'm sure that's come up like a million times where it's just like, no, it's not keep it tight. it's keeping it moving. being tight does not mean that things are strong. So it's, yeah, it's very much. Yeah. I'm very much with that camp. Like yes, Kegels, but make them functional. So I do not teach them solo ever. It's always like with bridges. If I think that's what you need. Cause if you're super hypertonic, if you're so contracted, like, yeah, if you think about, if you're super, super tight and any pressure is applied, yeah, you're going to leak. Yeah. It's going to be painful with sex. so it's. Yeah, exactly that. I could talk to you about this for like days, but we probably should wrap up at some point. I always like to end by asking my guests to describe birth in three words. I think I know what one of your words is gonna be. It's probably gonna be magic, but. You don't have to use that one. And I was thinking about this all the way here of, I mean, for me, gratitude as like stereotypical as it's like this Jasper is just. it's so cool to like meet another soulmate. And it's just so much gratitude for the experience of being pregnant and bringing him Earth side. So I think, yeah, gratitude, magic, so magic. And then, you know, what's a good third one? Just like kind of peace is really what comes to mind of just like, it's, we've been having babies for a long time. So just like the... I'm just so grateful to be a part of the process. I know. I agree with that. Well, thank you, Charlie. I really appreciate you spending this time talking to me, sharing your story, talking about what you do. is going to help a lot of women. know. Thank you. No, thank you. It's so good to see you. Good to see you. All right. You've been listening to the Arrivals podcast until next time. Yay.