Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #30 A Bumpy Boat Ride

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#30 A Bumpy Boat Ride · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, Tim Wright here along with today John D. Burgess and Terry's taking a couple weeks off.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're recording here right around the holiday season, Thanksgiving and
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: As you can imagine, having lost her spouse not that long ago, she needs a little space during this time.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're giving it to her.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to do that.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we miss her, but we're glad to have John back with us.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: John, you were in Deutschland.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Work sent me to Germany and France for about three weeks.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's good to be home, though, as always, right?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be home because after you eat three schnitzels,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: you think you're just going to be a schnitzel for the rest of your life.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then you have to take a schnitzel break.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the food is so amazing.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: But my goodness, I don't know how they do it and stay healthy over there.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: But they do it.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a beautiful, beautiful part of the world, too.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we are,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: for those of you who are just joining us for the first time,
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: we're really glad to have you with us.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who have been listening for a while,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: we're glad to have you with us and hope that if you enjoy these podcasts,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: you will share them with your friends.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing a Bible study together.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: We recognize that not often do people have the time these days to head on over to
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: their church and do a Bible study.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we do a Bible study with you and for you using this podcast.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're going through the Gospel of Mark.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we're basically, we're just looking at some of the stories.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're not doing every verse.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're not doing every passage.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're picking up on these stories that give us insights into who Jesus is.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And today we are in chapter four of Mark's gospel.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And at the very end,
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: the last story in chapter four,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: and we're gonna do chapter four,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: the last story there.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the next week we'll do chapter five because these two stories actually belong together.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So John D. has offered to read for us the passage from Mark today.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mark chapter 4, 35 to 41.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what version you're using, John?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using the New Living Translation.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: All righty.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's hear it.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the title is Jesus Calms the Storm.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: As evening came, Jesus said to his disciples, let's cross to the other side of the lake.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they took Jesus in the boat and started out,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: leaving the crowds behind,
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: although other boats followed.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: But soon a fierce storm came up.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: High waves were breaking into the boat and it began to fill with water.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus was sleeping at the back of the boat with his head on a cushion.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: The disciples woke him shouting, "'Teacher, don't you care that we're going to drown?'
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: When Jesus woke up, he rebuked the wind and said to the waves, silence, be still.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly the wind stopped and there was a great calm.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then he asked them, why are you afraid?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you still have no faith?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: The disciples were absolutely terrified.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Who is this man?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: They asked each other.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Even the wind and the waves obey him.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of the great stories.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're all great stories, but there's so much layered into this one.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one of these stories,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: once again,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: where for those who want to read their Bibles devotionally,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: so to speak,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: just they're kind of on their own and want to go a little deeper into the story.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of those stories where you just read it through a few times and then
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: you sit back,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: you close your eyes and you put yourself into the story.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you're in one of those boats and you just imagine that.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: being with Jesus, you set out on the water, and then all of a sudden, boom, this huge storm hits.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you are rocking and rolling in that boat, and you are pretty sure you're going to die.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there's Jesus, for heaven's sake, sound asleep in the boat.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: The one who has the potential to save you,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: he's sound asleep in the boat as if nothing is going on at all.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of interesting to imagine what different emotions you would have in the midst of that.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: For me, of course, there would be panic and fear, as is true with these guys.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: But John,
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the deeper questions that maybe people wrestle with a story like
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: this is,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: there are a lot of times when I feel like I'm in that midst of a rock and roll ride
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: and Jesus is sound asleep.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: What the heck's going on?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no question.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, to me, the sound of sleep thing some days means to me, you know, he was exhausted.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And isn't it amazing that Jesus gets exhausted?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so in my most exhausted moments, that brings some comfort to me that Jesus was exhausted as well.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: But certainly I am with the disciples.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we are, the boat is filling with water.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, does someone need to wake up Jesus?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think the wave might wake him up?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, who's looking out for me here?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what are we supposed to be doing?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Tim,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: about the other boats that followed who had nobody,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: they were just hoping that that guy that they can't even see in that boat,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: two or three or 400 boats up has got his mind on what's happening.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let's come back to some of that,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: the deep question that we often ask when we're in those,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: what we call God forsaken moments where,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: man,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: we're in the midst of the storm and Jesus does seem to be asleep at the wheel or
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: nowhere to be found.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this story gives us some real insight and some hope into those kinds of issues as well.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's some really interesting subplots going on in this story that helps set us
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: up for the story in the next episode that we'll look at from chapter five.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: But the first thing that stands out in this story is Jesus, it's evening.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that was generally the time when the fishermen would go out and fish.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: We always think about them going out in the early morning.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: They usually went out in the evenings.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: and they would cast their nets and they would do their fishing.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So at least the fishermen among the disciples would have been used to this rhythm.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, not all of those disciples are fishermen, but Peter, James, and John we know are for sure.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they would have been used to this rhythm.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're used to being on the water.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: They also know that there are...
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: there are storms that can suddenly hit on the Sea of Galilee.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they're aware of that.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So these guys live on the sea.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: They know the sea intimately.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, one of those famous Galilee storms hits because it's sort of in a basin.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: John, you've been to Israel.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so kind of describe for us the scene, as you can remember.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was a long time ago.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for asking,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: because this has always been a big point for me since I left Israel many,
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: many years ago,
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: because my wife and I grew up in an area where,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: lake life was not uncommon.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: we certainly didn't live on the lake,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: but you would go to the lake and there were friends that had,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: a lake cabin or whatever that you would go to.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever I read this story, I always thought, come on.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: When you're on the lake,
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: you're generally looking out for storms that are coming in,
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: and you've got plenty of time to kind of pull in and dock and let's get back up to
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: the house,
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: because the lakes that we're from,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: it's generally flat around the lake.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was really excited trying to figure that out a little bit.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when we got to the Sea of Galilee,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: it was very clear that,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: first of all,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: there were at times hundreds of fishing boats on the Sea of Galilee.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And as you look at the geography, I'll never forget looking off in the distance.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now, some people will call them mountains, but I live in Colorado, so I have to call them hills.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: But there were these tall hills,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: and the way the weather would come in,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: the hills would kind of funnel the weather quickly onto the sea.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it was quite possible in a very short amount of time to go from a beautiful day
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: fishing to a somewhat tragic day.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: We got to get out of here.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that these fishermen are afraid of losing their lives tells you just how severe the storm is.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we both grew up in Minnesota.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Minnesota could have some really, really fierce storms, some fierce thunderstorms, tornadoes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I remember we were out for this.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Back in the day, you would get in your car and you go out for rides.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Seems quaint now, right?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Last thing people want to do is get in their cars and go somewhere these days.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: But we would go out for rides, maybe go to Dairy Queen or something, just a little outing.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we hadn't been out long, and we saw this dark green cloud coming.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we were just, you know, minutes from our house.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad hit the car as fast as he could, and we were racing to get home.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that storm hit the minute we opened the car doors and ran into the house.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: We all ran into the basement.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it came that fast.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is one of those storms where it came that fast and threatened to kill them.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what's interesting here is the context behind the story.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's evening, so they're used to being out on the lake in the evenings.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: But Jesus says to them, let's go to the other side.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's code for let's go to the Gentile side of the lake.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: the place where the non-Jews live, the unclean people.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a place that Jews would go to if they had a choice.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because once they get on the other side, first of all, they're all pagans over there.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: you have any contact with non-Jewish people,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: you become ceremonially unclean,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: which means you can't worship for however long it takes you to get clean again.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: You just don't go there.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus says,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: let's go to the other side,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: which for the disciples should have set the alarm bells ringing.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-oh, this isn't good.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Why is he going into enemy territory?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Second thing to kind of keep in mind,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: even though the scripture doesn't say this,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: we sort of know this from our study.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: There were these deep-seated, almost ancient beliefs about the water that people carried with them.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Stories.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: the water represented chaos.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: The water represented sometimes primeval evil.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you can sort of get that sense even from Genesis 1, verse 1.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: The earth was without void, and he hovered over the chaos.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: The water hovered over the chaos.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they believed that there were creatures in these waters.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the fishermen may not have believed that, but they certainly knew the stories.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're out on the water,
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: they're headed in the wrong direction toward enemy territory,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: this storm suddenly hits,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: and they have to be thinking to themselves,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: not only are we gonna die,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: but we are now in the hands of primeval,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: primordial evil in this moment.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus, we knew we shouldn't have done this.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: What were you thinking?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: to bring us into this place, into this evil, into this sort of chaos.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that has got to be playing in their minds at that point.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I would imagine in some ways that that's not unlike how we can feel when we're
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: in the midst of those rock and roll storms.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: There is a
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think back to those times when we were huddling in the basement during tornadoes and something.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's just a power, a force in those kinds of storms.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And when they hit and you see the destruction they can bring in a matter of seconds,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: first of all,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: it's humbling and it's downright frightening.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: to see what these storms can do, the power of them.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you've attached these old ancient stories that in the power is evil,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: you can see why those guys were probably wetting their pants.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's powerful, Tim, and you feel powerless.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: all you can do is wait in those moments, right?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Those, uh, uh, is as the, uh, tornado, a warning turned into a tornado watch.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: it has get away from the windows or,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: those folks that are listening in good grief,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: in the Gulf coast area in Florida.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, our friends down there have got plenty of all, I can't do anything but wait.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think the powerlessness is so, um,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: in some ways dehumanizing.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's very well said.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: and so I think when we're going through our own stuff,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: not only are there times when we feel like Jesus is asleep,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: the darkness can become somewhat overwhelming.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And those old stories about the monsters hiding under the bed or that creature in
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: the closet in the darkness,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: we may not be able to identify them,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: but all of that stuff is mixed up.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: in those fear-filled moments, which is normal.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's human.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then you add on top of that a sleeping Jesus.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you just sort of say, what in the world is going on?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: So these guys have several whammies sitting them at one point.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're in this boat.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to the wrong side of town.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to the enemy territory.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly the abyss has opened up.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: The storm has hit.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus is asleep.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And their amygdalas are on overdrive, which is fight or flight.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, they can't flee anywhere.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they're over there waking Jesus up, trying to get his attention.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what I really appreciate about
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: them is this very human moment don't you care don't you care yeah yeah um now first
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: of all they go to Jesus which is great they don't try to fix it themselves but
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: don't you care and man how many times have all of us maybe not had the courage to
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: ask that question but it was there um
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus, don't you care about what I'm going through right now?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or don't you care about what your world is going through?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you care that my grandma is in pain right now?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you care that my child has abandoned you?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus, don't you care about these things?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a normal question to ask.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: you feel powerless and when you don't see action that you think would be appropriate,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: then I,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: you have to question that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a fair question.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's a,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: that's a,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: that's,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: sort of a,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: a deep in the heart question of,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: all things aside,
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: like where is the care and the love?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, and I, so I think in part what this story does is it gives us permission to ask,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: that really hard question.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And to know that we're okay if we look Jesus in the face,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: wherever he is,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: and say,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: even if we're shaking our fists at him,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: don't you care?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you give a rip what I'm going through right now?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think this story gives us permission to do that and to ask those questions.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're just human.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to get to this point about faith here in a moment.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it shows a lack of faith
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: to ask Jesus where he is.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: In fact,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's an act of faith because you're actually going to him to ask the
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: question in the first place.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was either.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So Tim, I'll put you in good company here.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was either you, C.S.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Lewis or Tim Culler.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: One of the three of you folks would say,
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: it's okay to be mad and ask those hard questions of God because at the very least
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: you're keeping the conversation going.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've said to people before who's,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: who sort of said off the cuff,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe in God anymore.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm mad at God.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I said, well, if you're mad at God, you still believe in God.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always hope.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: If God doesn't exist, you're not mad at God.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're mad at something else maybe, but you're not mad at God if you don't believe God exists.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're mad at God, that too is an act of faith and an act of belief.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the conversation is still going.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: The conversation is still going, and it's not necessarily unhealthy to be angry at God.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: The psalmists are constantly venting anger at God or asking in their own way, God, don't you care?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what we want to be saying here to our listeners is,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: if you're in that moment right now,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: it's okay.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the end, Jesus was in the boat.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: it maybe seemed like he didn't care.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It maybe seemed like he was asleep.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: He was asleep, but he was still in the boat.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't alone.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: He was just a question away.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus is still in the boat.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I always think it's important to tie this story back to Jesus on the cross.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: where he says, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a similar kind of question.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: God, don't you care?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you care, yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can hear that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's safe to say,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: because he said,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: into your hands I commit my spirit,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: that he realized that God was in the boat with him.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: May not have felt it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: May have wondered where God was.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: But God had not abandoned Jesus in that moment.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus didn't abandon his disciples.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't abandon us anymore.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Life has a way of just hitting us with stuff.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus has a way of being in the middle of it with us.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes we don't see it until we're on the other side of the storm.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which in a sense is what happens here for these guys.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: They wake Jesus up.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: You sort of imagine if you're in a deep sleep, exhausted, as you said.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in a deep sleep, he's probably kind of groggy-headed.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And even Jesus, where am I?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I all wet?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then he just speaks to the storm, not unlike God speaking to the chaos in chapter 1 of Genesis.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: and said, let there be light, let there be all these different things.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus speaks to that chaos, to that water, and says, peace, be still.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And according to the way that this story is told, it was almost instantaneous.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: My version here, New Revised Standard, the wind ceased and there was a dead calm.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting word, interesting translation, a dead calm.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he said to them, why are you afraid?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, why have you, why do you still have no faith?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's a difficult one there.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a hard one.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you, you sort of think, well, wait a minute, we did have faith.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: We woke you up, but we, we asked you to help us.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so we always need to be careful in passages like these to understand what Jesus
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: is talking about when he's talking about faith.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And is he chiding them because they don't believe in him?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is he chiding them because they didn't trust him to get them through?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can't build a whole theology of what Jesus means by faith on one story.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in part what he's saying here is,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: do you still not recognize who I am?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And part of the reason why I say this is because the next line,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: they were filled with fear and great awe and said to one another,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: who is this guy?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Who is this guy that even the wind and the waves obey him?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus is kind of saying, you still don't get it yet?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really interesting phrase there.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you kind of wish Jesus would say, well, thanks for waking me up, guys.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for trusting me.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you would like to have heard Jesus say.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or how about I really wasn't sleeping.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of waiting for this moment when you and I could have this time
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: together and there would be another supporting display of my deity.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: In a text message.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: But to understand a little bit too what's going on here,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: throughout all of Mark,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: the disciples never get it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: The ones closest to him never really get it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Those standing afar do.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: People who have a one-time encounter with Jesus, they get him right away.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: But those on the inner circle never quite get it.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they play the role of us.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: in a story like this,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: they play the role of us when we're going through the storms and we're wondering
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: where Jesus is.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we wonder, does he care?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Does he sound asleep?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think they play the role that we often play.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: When we're longtime followers of Jesus, you know, we can get complacent or...
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: We can get caught up with a lot of questions and sort of miss who he is.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Miss who he is.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is one of those stories where it's just important for us to see who Jesus is.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's in the boat.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: He cares.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he does not abandon us.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: May not always feel like that.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But this is the one who said, I'll never leave you nor forsake you.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is the one about whom it was said, nothing can ever separate us from God's love.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Neither heights nor depths, sword, famine, pestilence, even the gates of hell.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing can separate us from God's love.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a story where Jesus is in the boat and he's not separated from his disciples.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But he uses,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: the writer is using the disciples here as a sort of a way for us to keep asking the question,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: who is this Jesus?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's not just a buddy.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's not, you know, a pet I pull out every once in a while when I need him.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not Santa Claus.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is the guy who created the heavens and the earth.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And this guy cares about me.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this guy is in the boat with me.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that I find really interesting is these guys have seen Jesus do some stuff already.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: They've seen him heal people and so on.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: But when he does this with the powers of nature, they were filled with great awe.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Your version says fear.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it says they were terrified.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were terrified.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And who wouldn't be?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: If Jesus is standing next to you for everything that we believe about him,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: and a tornado comes and he speaks to the tornado and says,
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: stop,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: and just,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: it's gone.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think we'd all be a little bit shaken by that.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no question.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's okay as well for us to realize that, yeah, Jesus does love us.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus does come as friend.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus does come as savior.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: as,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: as CS Lewis says it so well in the Chronicles of Narnia,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: when,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: the children ask,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mr.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mrs.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Beaver,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: if,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: if Aslan is safe,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: and friendly,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: he just, he says, well, of course not.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's a lion.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's dangerous, but he can be trusted.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: so there is this,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: this combustible power in Jesus,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: as we see,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: as he has this conflict with the chaos and the deep,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: and yet he uses it always in the service of people that he loves.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: this is one of those stories,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: where you would say,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: you can place yourself into the story in many different areas in the boat,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: in one of the boats following and kind of walk through that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And there's probably some goodness there.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I, of course, love the fact that, um,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: the disciples are showing us that they had to have absolutely felt like Jesus was
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: distant and abandoned as he's sleeping in the middle of a fierce storm and getting
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: wet and he's not waking up and probably,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know, probably someone was like, I don't even know if he's still alive.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just know that we're not going to make it.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Someone better give him a poke.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there's certainly plenty of times when I feel like, man, I don't, I think he's in the boat.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's in the boat, but maybe he might as well not be for all that I can see right now.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, good point.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: the big question,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Tim,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: is,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: when you poke Jesus and say,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: are you awake?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm drowning here.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of times he doesn't calm the storm sometimes.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then what do I, where do I do with that?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where do I file it away?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, that can be, I think probably the bad theology there.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of, a lot of folks can get into self-blame and that sort of thing.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's kind of bad.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: My, my opinion here, but what, how do I file?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do I unpack that to use a good Tim right word?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do I unpack that?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: there's that saying,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes he calms the storm,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes he calms the person in the midst of the storm.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is, sometimes he doesn't calm the storm or the person in the midst of the storm.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or it doesn't feel like it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or it doesn't feel like it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is where, thankfully, the life of faith...
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: certainly has an emotional component to it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're meant to feel.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: We were created to have feelings.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But faith also ultimately is built on a promise, whether I feel it or not.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the promise is, I will never leave you nor forsake you.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the promise is that God's grace is always deeper than the deepest storm.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's always deeper than my deepest fears.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes when we can barely hang on,
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus is hanging on to us for dear life.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the promises.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of what can help us as Christians in the midst of these storms
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: isn't Pollyannish thinking.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's real life stuff that people are going through.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is a real storm.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Poverty is real for people.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Cancer is real for people.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Dysfunctional kids, they're real for people.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And can I just interject?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: John speaking here,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: but well-intending Christians and non-Christians can sometimes go down the road of
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: unhelpful Pollyannish type comments for folks that are,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the big ones for me is,
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: God wouldn't give you anything that he doesn't know that you can survive.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: and it's,
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: it is,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it probably comes from people that are intending good things,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: but it certainly seems to be unhelpful a lot of times.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And of course that one, that blames God for everything, which we don't want to do either.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, right.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: or,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: when someone dies,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: God wanted them in heaven more than he wanted you to have them here,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: which what kind of God is that?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, not helpful.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, so, you know, all of these things are real.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And our propensity,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: part of the problem is that we get so caught up in the storm around us that it is
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: hard to see God's grace around us.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in those times it's really important for us,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: however we do it,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: to keep finding ways to remind ourselves that God has not abandoned us.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Even though we feel like it, God has not abandoned us.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And Scripture is full of promises to that effect.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: You and I were saying before we got online,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: when we're in the midst of these kinds of things,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: we can always either choose to despair or we can choose to focus on God's promise.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to focus somewhere.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the healthy thing is to focus on both.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: To realize, yeah, this hurts, this sucks, but I'm so glad I'm not walking through this alone.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere Jesus has got my back.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think of our friend Terry,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: who is,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: she lost her husband four months ago,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: and how articulate she was when she was sharing her grief with us,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: that she's just going to feel the grief.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And rather than deny the grief or rather than trying to manage the grief,
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: she's just going to feel the grief and live through it and walk through it and,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: let Jesus do what Jesus is going to do in the midst of that.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: and then come to a certain point in her life where she says,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: now I need to shift here and shift there.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when we're in the midst of it, nothing wrong with being scared like the disciples.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing wrong with calling out to Jesus.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And of course,
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: there's nothing wrong with Jesus sort of stepping in finally and saying,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: enough's enough.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever that moment comes.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nothing wrong with that at all.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think the bigger point here is Jesus is in the boat.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the promise.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus is in the boat.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what's going to happen now next week,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: as we turn to chapter 5,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: they first have this storm which suggests to them that they're going to the wrong place.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they get out of the boat in enemy territory, it gets even worse.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we're going to get to next week and how Jesus handles...
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: brute force and evil in a human body.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll talk about that next week.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: John, thank you for spending some time with us.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone there listening, we thank you for your listening in.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to leave a comment, you can certainly do that.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got questions, leave those with us.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And please share this with a friend.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is Morse code.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's spelling out grace.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: We always end with a note of grace.