Latest / Behind The Village Podcast / Leaving a Disney Show to Teach Kids How to Draw | Brad Ferguson

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Leaving a Disney Show to Teach Kids How to Draw | Brad Ferguson · Behind The Village Podcast

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You're listening to the Behind the Village podcast,
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where we invite you to join us on a journey to
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understand how to live a life worth living. Today
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we're chatting with Brad Ferguson from Upchuckle
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Education. Brad is a talented artist who, after
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an incredible career in animation, is now focused
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on education and teaching people of all ages
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and skill levels. But animation wasn't what he
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originally thought he would be doing. I spent
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my entire childhood and high school years wanting
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to actually be an actor or movie star. I loved
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entertaining people, but I could always draw
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too. You know, I was the guy that my friends
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would kind of come to, oh, can you do me a doodle
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of this or whatever? And I grew up loving to
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draw Garfield and my best friend loved to draw
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Odie. So we worked together and kind of made
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our own comics. That was a lot of fun. You know,
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so again, I grew up watching Looney Tunes and
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Disney and had all of them memorized. You know,
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I'd be the guy that had Megadeth on my playlist
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along with every Disney soundtrack, you know,
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and sing it along with the tune. But it was time,
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you know, nearing the end of high school to kind
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of decide, hey, I need to get real here. What
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am I going to do with my life? And go to college
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for... for whatever passion I was, I could find.
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So I was thinking about applying for theater
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and all those things. I did a lot of high school
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theater and it made my, thank goodness YouTube
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wasn't around when I was a kid. Cause wow, we
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got, we rented the camera from the media department
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and there are some short films out there on VHS
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that I'm sure would be some good blackmail material.
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It was, it was awesome though. We had so much
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fun. uh, did a lot of improv and, and all that
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kind of thing. So anyway, I got distracted there.
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Um, uh, so as I was saying that, you know, I
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had to decide what am I going to go to college
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for? So it was actually my high school drama
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teacher that said, you know, Brad, there's an
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animation program down at Charity. And I was
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like, It was bizarre to me because that never
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clicked for a moment that people actually do
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that for a living. You know, you know, I grew
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up again watching all these Looney Tunes and
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Disney movies, but I forgot that, yeah, people
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actually do that for a career. So I applied to
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Sheridan, which at the time was, you know, touted
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as one of the world's best animation schools.
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And of course, being self -taught. artist from
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a small town with no training whatsoever. I got
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rejected, of course. I'm sure my first portfolio
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was laughable. But then the stubborn Scotsman
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in me kind of kicked in and now I needed it more
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than anything. So I got very passionate and took
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a year and trained myself how to draw and what
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they were looking for, all these things. And
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then I got on the waiting list. So I got closer
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to my goal. Then I took yet another year off,
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continued teaching myself, and then got in on
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the third try. So three times a term. Went to
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Sheridan, loved animating, loved character design.
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I did really well storyboarding and started my
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career and started working in television. First
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show I ever animated on was called Geek in the
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Big Wide World, which won the Emmy Award for
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Best Animated Series. Had a lot of fun there.
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I actually met my wife on that show. So yeah,
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a lot of great times. So I animated on multiple
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TV shows, then I did character design, I storyboarded,
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and eventually at the same studio started directing
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and show running. So I was kind of overseeing
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every aspect of a comedy show called Almost Naked
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Animals, which was a blast to work on, such a
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fun show. And then directed a show called Nunchucks,
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a slapstick comedy about two woodchuck brothers
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that weren't very bright, but thought they knew
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Kung Fu. So they'd go around their town of Dingaling
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Springs trying to protect people from crimes
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that weren't happening. Had a lot of fun. But
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that's just a brief story of what I did in animation.
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Bounced around to a few different studios after
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that. I wanted to get into CG. I wanted to get
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into feature film, so I was trying some different
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things. But how I got into education, which is
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what I'm focusing on now, I reached out to a
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private animation college and just said, hey,
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this is my experience, but I really love educating
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people. How would you recommend I veer my career
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toward education? And the response I got was,
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do you want to start in two weeks? Which I almost
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said no to just out of pure stage fright. Like
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I was, despite the theater background and everything,
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I just like, you walk into a class and you're
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like, hi class. Then what? You know, I had no
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idea and I was shooting blind. So, but thank
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goodness I said yes. I fell in love with the
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job immediately as soon as I saw the, you know,
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creative kids and was working with them. And
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it wasn't long before I was director of the entire
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four -year animation diploma program as well.
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So coordinating and, you know, rewriting curriculum
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and doing all these wonderful things to make
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this, you know, the program as strong as it could
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be. But it was a private college and it unfortunately
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got sold very unexpectedly. And a bunch of us
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found ourselves back on the street and looking
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for work. So I did return to the animation industry.
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And as much as I loved it before I started teaching,
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I was miserable. I missed it. It killed me inside
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to leave my students. You know, here I am working
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with all these great young minds and, you know,
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seeing that passion and being passionate with
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them about their film. And so it was really difficult
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being back in the industry and leaving my students
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behind. And I just happened to be renovated from
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my place in Toronto at the same time. So I decided
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to tuck tail and return to Barrie and living
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on my sister's couch and realizing how miserable
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I was being back in the industry and decided
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I wanted to start my own school. So I was assistant
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director on a Disney show and I was just like,
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I need to step away from this. I need to build
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my own thing. I know my name is a little strange,
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Upchuckle Education, but I used to be Upchuckle
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Entertainment. That was my production company.
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And education became a division of that production
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company, which is now my sole focus. So, you
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know, because my eventual goal, I'm not going
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to be Upchuckle Education forever. One day I
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will be an accredited private college for arts,
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animation and entertainment studies here in Barrie.
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as well. So that is my long -term goal. The joy
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and the fun that I've had building up Chuckle
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Education is basically the programs I've developed,
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the offerings that I've created come from a place
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of, man, I wish that existed when I was growing
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up as a young artist. I grew up solo. I didn't
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have the supports. I didn't have the training.
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Again, I was self -taught trying to get into
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Sheridan multiple rounds, you know, spending
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literally years of my life. trying to figure
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this out on my own with no support or guidance.
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Upchuckle Education provides what I wish I had.
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And I know many of my colleagues from the industry
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wish existed for them as well. You know, I run
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something called Cartoon Camp, which is, you
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know, PA day, March break, summer camps and stuff
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like that for children, you know, all with a
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different focus and different theme to kind of
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give them the foundation they need to if they're
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interested in pursuing it further. learning and
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just creating together having fun being open
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to brainstorming working as a team all these
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great qualities that go into everything we do
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you know when you're creating animated television
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shows and then I know I created something called
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family art lessons purely because I thought how
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wonderful would it be as a child and i'm talking
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40 year old children and their parents too kid
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i started i recently started an after school
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program so i you know uh for for cartoon camp
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and and uh you know i think that's another great
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opportunity i do private lessons so like like
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a piano teacher um but for art animation storytelling
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whatever you want to learn tailored to you know
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your learning style and what you want to focus
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on so again just coming from a place of what
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I really would have loved to have had when I
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was growing up and starting out. The creative
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process is so fascinating. Brad connects to his
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inner childhood self and encourages embracing
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mistakes in order to experience continuous breakthrough
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moments throughout your artistic career. I'm
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a grown -up, and I very clearly remember what
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it was like to not be a grown -up. you know before
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that time and it doesn't feel so far away so
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it's i think it's staying connected with my childhood
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with that with that mindset and that outlook
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of looking at the world and everything in it
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and coming up with those ideas uh i think it's
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a place of expression i think that's you know
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that's a big big part of everything creative
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it's it's not just expressing how you feel and
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your own thoughts but it's also expressing what
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you want to get out there to the world to to
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to to entertain people to make them think to
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make them see something in a different way so
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it comes from all these different places and
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then at the end of the day it's just about pure
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you know animation is often about just having
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fun just just exploring and coming up with ideas
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Having an imagination in the first place as a
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child, I grew up in the middle of nowhere. We
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lived on a country highway that I could ride
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my bike on the driveway. That was it. None of
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my friends lived anywhere that was less than
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a car ride away. So we backed on the woods. So
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I would spend my time in the forest. just using
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my imagination, you know, pretending I was going
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out back and playing with the Ewoks for half
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an afternoon. I think it comes from having an
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understanding of the foundations, I think. What
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resonates with an audience, having that in your
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back pocket, kind of. I mean, you always want
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to think outside the box. I am somebody that
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I never want to copy anybody else's idea, usually.
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If I think something I'm doing is too similar
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to somebody else's, I'll go and do the opposite
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just to change it up and make it original. But
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I think at its core, when you're creating animation
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or comic books or graphic novels or even writing
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a story or a poem, I think you need to understand
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the foundation of what resonates with an audience.
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How can you communicate successfully visually
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or through a story? To make something that works,
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essentially. Not to say that, you know, new ground
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can't be covered by, you know, thinking outside
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that box and doing innovative things. But at
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its core, I think if you don't know the basics
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of, say, storyboarding or cinematography, people
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are going to watch the film you made and it's
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going to be confusing. That's not going to make
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sense because there are foundational. elements
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that go into creating that that I think need
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to be learned first. Try everything. Don't go
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into it with a preconceived notion of I only
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want to do this and close off the rest of the
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world. I wanted to be a movie star my entire
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life and then I got into animation. It's being
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a sponge, soaking up everything and finding out
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for yourself what works for you, what doesn't.
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What are you passionate about that has the potential
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to get your interest if you practice more and
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practice more? Not throwing in the towel early,
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seeing what happens. I remember, again, when
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I was teaching at the college, I loved it because
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I had a student that, you know. rigging and 3d
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animation is something that's very very technical
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it's very specialized and you're basically building
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the skeleton of the puppet and telling the computer
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this is how the arm moves when you lift it at
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the shoulder and then it twists you know from
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the forearm down and you know you're building
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that rig and I had a student that thought he
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wanted to be an animator and but For the fourth
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year film, he was assigned to the rigging department.
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He fell in love with rigging. This is a passion
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that he had that he never knew existed until
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he gave it a shot and tried it out. And then
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that's what he wanted to do for his career. So
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there's so many things that are just under the
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surface that I think don't be closed off to learning.
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any of them and for anybody that's really interested
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in getting into the entertainment industry the
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animation industry you have to be a jack or jill
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of all trades you can't just specialize in one
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thing uh you know this industry is built of jumping
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from production to production jumping from contract
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to contract if you say i only do this one thing
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and that's it You're going to spend a majority
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of your career out of work, you know, on unemployment.
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So you need to be able to say, oh, I did character
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design for this show. Then I bounced over. Oh,
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they needed support in the animation department.
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I did that for this show. You know, the more
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you can soak up, the more you can learn and be
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good at is really beneficial. One of my favorite
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films, my favorite film of all time, whether
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it be out of live action movies, animated, doesn't
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matter, is Ratatouille. And if you remember,
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the philosophy behind that was anyone can cook.
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And I share it. There's so many reasons that
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movie resonated with me, but that philosophy
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is how I feel about creativity and about honing
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those drawing skills. And I think anybody to
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me that says, oh, I can't draw, I can't tell
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you how often I hear, I can't even draw a stick
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figure. And every time I say, yes, you can. It's
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just a matter of putting pencil to paper, taking
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the time to do it, to learn. What worries me
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about this generation growing up in this digital
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age of social media and all this other stuff,
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which is our fantastic tools, right? Like they're
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so great for getting your work out there. But,
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you know, and I see a lot of it in my cartoon
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camp students that come in. The sense of perfectionism,
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like I've never seen it. I used to be a perfectionist
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until I got in the industry. And, you know, schedule
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is king. You need to meet your deadlines. And
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so your perfectionism kind of has to get set
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aside sometimes. But the problem with the social
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media and what I'm seeing is this sense that
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everything that everybody else does is perfect.
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So I'm no good. What you're not seeing, what
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I tell all my students, what they're not seeing
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is the thousands of hours, the thousands of bad
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drawings that went in to build to that level
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of quote -unquote perfectionism in that piece
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of art. And as much as it's a wonderful tool,
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it's a very discouraging thing if you don't have
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that mindset and you don't see that. So, I mean,
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the reason I love teaching, one of the... many
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reasons i love teaching is you know say for example
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at a cartoon camp people are watching me draw
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on my i plug my ipad into the tv they can all
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see what i'm drawing And I screw up all the time.
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You know, they see my mistakes. They see me go,
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oh, that's an ugly drawing. Because that is part
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of the process. That is being creative. That
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is being, you don't know until you put that pencil
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to paper and try. And that's where so many people
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give up is the starting line. You know, so I
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think it's just a matter of. trying. It breaks
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my heart when an adult comes to me and says,
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oh, I used to draw all the time as a kid and
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I haven't touched it since. It's like, bring
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it back. It doesn't take as much work as you
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think to just sit there and doodle something
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and see what comes out. It is such a great form
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of expression and maybe expressing emotions that
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you don't even know are there until you... dig
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them out. And, and it's, it's incredible how,
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how much good it can do for a person. So, you
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know, I, I, again, I tell my students embrace
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the mistakes. If I, I don't know everything,
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I will never know everything. And I'm good with
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that. That's part of the journey of being an
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artist. If, if, if I, if I knew it all, if I
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could just close my eyes and draw a beautiful
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drawing, I'd be like, okay, I'm done that one.
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Where's the passion going to come from? What's
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the point? It is that journey. It is that experience,
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that joy that comes from those breakthrough moments.
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And you want to have multiple breakthrough moments
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your entire life that doesn't just end at once.
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Let's get into the evolution of animation that
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Brad experienced and some nuance of animating
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for television. I was trained in classical animation,
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so that in itself. If you've seen the old footage
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of the old Disney animators flipping pages between
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their fingers, that is what traditional or classical
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animation is. It has changed huge since then,
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and in a lot of ways, thank goodness it has,
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because doing revisions would be a nightmare
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if we were animating that way. So now we animate
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in the computer. That has really, really helped
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us speed things up and make things like revisions.
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much much much easier i couldn't imagine doing
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it traditionally uh that way at the same time
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anybody that anybody i know that was knows how
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to animate traditionally we all miss that tangible
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feeling i i used to joke that on the side of
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my screen i would keep post -its just so i could
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keep on rolling my fingers through sheets of
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paper um you know There's something so tangible.
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There's nothing between you and your artwork
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there. And, you know, at the beginning, I talked
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about my journey toward animation from wanting
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to be an actor my entire life. And something
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I forgot to add to that is it wasn't just my
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drama teacher telling me, hey, you can go to
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school for animation because animation truly
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is acting with a pencil. If you want to draw
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a character that is emoting an emotion or performing
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anything, you need to feel it in your heart.
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And it sounds cheesy until you can get into that
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zone. You don't know, you know, people might
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not understand what it feels like, but it's a
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real place. And it's really a magical place because
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you are connected to what you are animating because
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it's your emotion on the page. And so we are
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actors. We need to. convince ourselves we are
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feeling what this character is feeling the evolution
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of animation that i've witnessed has been of
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course the the um transition to drawing and producing
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animation in the computer versus hand -drawn
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animation i still love the hand -drawn stuff
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i i still love creating the hand -drawn stuff
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i actually have a cartoon camp coming up uh that's
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traditional animation flipping pages because
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i think that's a really good place for people
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to learn the basics the principles of animation
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um and and not have that computer in the way
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so uh it's it's a great thing you know and uh
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i also i i also do a lot of what's called storyboarding
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so that's basically you know the transition from
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script the screen the step in between that To
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plan out every single shot, every single camera
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angle, every single performance is something
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called the storyboard. And we create what's called
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an animatic or a like reel from that where we
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time our storyboard to the duration of the film
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or the performance of the actors or what have
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you. So the storyboard is like a comic book,
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basically. And it's one step below directing.
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It's a step. that leads to directing because
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you you know you are taking the vision of the
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script and making it come on screen my point
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is that used to be done i i don't have them here
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but storyboard panels were done on paper um i
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am so thankful that's not done on paper anymore
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like really i do that in the computer now because
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again when you need to change something it is
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so painstaking or if you have say six storyboard
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panels that take place in the same scene that
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means you don't change the background so rather
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than having to draw the background on all six
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of those panels on paper you can just use the
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same background when you're working in the computer
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so time saving shortcuts like that that really
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help it plus being able to time it to the audio
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of the actors performing is a really great tool
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essentially yeah that was going to be my question
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too is when you're animating and i know voice
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will typically typically come at some point In
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that process, I wasn't sure if you're animating
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first, voice comes in and then it's finessed
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to the voice later or, you know, like where,
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how does that all work? There are different approaches,
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but because the visual, for me, my preference
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is always to be animating to the actor because
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that's how you get the nuances of their performance.
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You know, there are animations, sometimes you'll
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see them where there feels like there's a disconnect
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between the facial expressions or the, you know,
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the. the body movements and the actual audio
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performance. And that's when they do what's called
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ADR, where they record or they put in the audio
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after it's been animated, kind of have the actor
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try to match it. If you remember the opening
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shot to Mrs. Doubtfire, Robin Williams is kind
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of like, you know, really rapid fire in Robin
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Williams style, you know, matching his doing
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all the voices for this little Tweety and Sylvester
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ripoff cartoon. And after it's been animated.
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That would be a nightmare. Yeah. You would never
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do it. I mean, Robin Williams could do it that
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way for sure, but that's about the only one.
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You know, so yeah, the times where the actor
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will try to match the already animated scene
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is if there was a, the actor wasn't available
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maybe, or there was a line that kind of changed
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at some point before they could rerecord it,
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that kind of thing. For someone interested in
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beginning their journey with animation, where
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do you start? What do you start with? That's
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the beauty of creativity and see above about
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scraping mud on cave walls, right? Like, you
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know, you don't need the latest and greatest
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technology to... create uh so you know you can
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go to dollarama and buy the pencils and the printer
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paper and start there if you have an ipad that's
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the beautiful thing is i'm so jealous of today's
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generation in terms of how accessible this amazing
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technology is you know back in you know 1999
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y2k uh when i was trying to uh you know figure
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out how to get a computer where i could film
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my paper animation and see it on the computer
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to make sure that it was right before I finished
24:13
it up. And like that was unheard of. Like it
24:16
was so hard to find a machine that could do that.
24:19
Where now we all carry a phone in our pocket
24:22
that can do it like this, right? You download
24:25
an app, maybe they're free. Sometimes the one
24:27
I use, I think it costs 20 bucks and that's 20
24:29
forever. And that's an amazing bargain for what
24:34
it can do. So really, I mean, it's whatever you're
24:38
into. If your imagination tells you that you
24:40
want to work with or to start playing with, there's
24:44
no reason it can't evolve. If you want to start
24:46
drawing on paper and then you're like, oh, that
24:48
would make a great 3D character, then start learning
24:51
how to model something in Blender, which is free
24:53
software for 3D animation and so many other things.
24:58
You know, there's no limit to what you can learn
25:02
or how you can learn it. It's just... what I
25:05
suggest is it can be daunting not knowing where
25:09
to start it can be it can without having that
25:11
guidance so you know it's a matter of knowing
25:14
what the tools do what you're interested in I
25:16
think and not not not getting overwhelmed by
25:20
I don't know if I should learn Maya or Blender
25:22
I don't know if I should learn Toon Boom or you
25:24
know animate or whatever like you know reach
25:28
out to me email me just I can give you a you
25:30
know tell me what you're interested in and I'll
25:33
give you hey, here's a recommended, you know,
25:35
free route you could go. Or if you have a little
25:38
bit of a budget, go this route. You know, one
25:41
thing if you're working in the computer, what
25:43
I will say is, I mean, the monitor I have below
25:46
you guys right now is a monitor I can draw on.
25:49
So that's very important for working in the computer.
25:52
And they're actually called tablets or display
25:54
tablets. But since the iPad came along, everybody
25:56
thinks a tablet is an iPad. It's not. It's two
25:59
different things. You know, which. Again, iPads
26:03
and tablets like that are fantastic for sitting
26:06
on a park bench and doing animation or a beautiful
26:09
painting from there too. So there's a lot of
26:12
great things that come along with the technology.
26:14
In terms of where to start for people that are
26:18
just starting out, all I can say is don't feel
26:20
overwhelmed by all the choices. You have so many
26:23
choices and I could imagine how overwhelming
26:25
it might feel. There's ways to sort through that.
26:29
Don't let that bog you down. Animation, by its
26:32
very nature, is a very time -consuming process.
26:34
You do anywhere from 12 to 24 frames per second
26:39
of footage. So whether that be drawing or stop
26:42
motion, that means you move something a little
26:46
bit, take a picture. Move something a little
26:48
bit, take a picture. Whether that be a sculpture
26:50
or a Lego figure or your drawing that you're
26:55
creating, you move it. either 12 depending on
26:58
how you shoot it 12 or 24 times for one second
27:02
of footage so it takes time to do this stuff
27:05
and to do it well takes even longer i was i was
27:09
obsessed if any if you remember the uh traditionally
27:11
drawn or traditionally animated sword in a stone
27:14
disney uh animated movie and the way they animated
27:17
merlin's hands that was milk call and and just
27:21
there they were just so beautifully done and
27:24
then so i i would as a kid study the way i didn't
27:28
want to be in animation at the time remember
27:29
i wanted to be a movie star yeah you know but
27:32
i was still so fascinated with how they did it
27:34
that i would pause it and i would copy what i
27:37
saw on the tv and copying is never a problem
27:41
as long as you never claim credit for it so that's
27:43
that's where i think a lot of students kind of
27:45
um get it wrong in a way is is where like look
27:48
what i drew all by myself with it it's clearly
27:51
traced off something you know that's that's where
27:54
it's wrong but there is nothing wrong with learning
27:56
through you know a a talented artist already
28:01
went through the trouble of how to represent
28:04
reality in this this this drawn form as long
28:10
as when you're copying you're you're not just
28:12
like drawing a line drawing a line drawing a
28:14
line you're thinking as you're doing it you're
28:16
asking yourself questions you're like now why
28:18
does the line curve that way why oh i get it
28:22
it connects to this part and that's where the
28:24
copying is really doing some good for you remember
28:27
back in the olden days when phones were actually
28:29
used to talk to people right on on the phone
28:32
remember when speaker quality and microphone
28:34
quality actually mattered and uh you know you'd
28:38
have a notepad beside the phone and as you're
28:40
on the phone you would be there doodling you
28:42
would have a notepad full of doodles and you
28:45
don't know where it came from you don't know
28:47
how it came out of you but it's there and it
28:51
exists like imagine taking that that that what's
28:55
in you and nurturing it a little bit and letting
28:58
it grow and evolve it into something and looking
29:02
at a little doodle of a character you did and
29:04
go, I wonder what it would be like if I flesh
29:05
that out a little bit more. You know, could that
29:07
be a character for an animated film or a comic
29:10
book or just another drawing that you want to
29:12
do? So I think in terms of ideas, nothing that
29:18
we have in this world was... was created not
29:23
by first starting with a blank piece of paper
29:26
right and and so it's just taking that first
29:29
step putting pencil to paper and seeing what
29:31
comes out not being afraid i think that's something
29:34
i see a lot of it's being afraid to take that
29:36
chance what do you got to lose it's a piece of
29:38
paper that's a that's the worst thing that's
29:41
going to happen is you're going to do a drawing
29:42
that you throw in the recycle bin like big deal
29:44
You know, so not having that fear, not having
29:47
that anxiety and not putting that weight on every
29:50
single line that you put down. Get messy, get
29:53
your hands dirty, have fun with it. Like the
29:56
whole reason that we create art is for the fun
29:59
of it, the passion of it. So just see what happens.
30:04
One thing we love about Brad and Upchuckle Education
30:07
is the commitment to the local community. the
30:12
Upchuckle Student Sponsorship Program. So what
30:15
we do is... you know, individuals or even businesses
30:20
coming together as a team can sponsor children
30:24
or adults experiencing hardship in the community.
30:27
So I coordinate with Simcoe Muskoka Family Connections,
30:31
Season Center for Grieving Children, the Berry
30:34
Woman and Children's Shelter, as well as Glowing
30:37
Hearts Charity. So what that means is you can
30:42
send a kid to cartoon camp. You can send, you
30:44
know, a mom living in the shelter with two kids.
30:47
to our family art lessons for a bonding experience
30:49
and then a healing experience. I'm really convinced
30:52
of that. But beyond that, so the sponsorship
30:55
rates are reduced to start with, but I also match
30:58
every sponsorship. So if you sponsor one kid
31:01
to go to the cartoon camp, that turns to two
31:04
children automatically. So it's a really great
31:06
program. We've helped 46 individuals in the community
31:10
so far. I'm really proud of that. An incredible
31:16
program and an incredible person. A big thank
31:19
you to Brad for sharing his journey and his artistry
31:22
with us. It was so interesting to hear the ins
31:24
and outs of animation and to learn about aspects
31:27
of it that we've never considered before. Thank
31:30
you for listening to the entire episode. All
31:33
the links and info you heard in this conversation
31:34
will be featured in the show notes on our website.
31:37
If you'd like to know more about anything we
31:39
mentioned in this episode, make sure to check
31:41
villagermagazine .ca slash podcast. If you enjoyed
31:45
this episode, please leave us a review on Apple
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Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening
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from. If you'd like to help this podcast grow,
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consider subscribing to our podcast channels
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31:56
episode. Thanks again and I'll see you next time.