Latest / Breaking The Meta / Healthcare in Crisis: An ER Nurse's Plan for Change
Transcript
- Mike Winson: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Breaking the Meta. My name is Mike Winson. Today we are sitting down with Jenny Levin, who is running for Illinois House of Representatives, District 51. Hello, Jenny. How are you doing today? Jenny Levin: Hi, Mike, I'm doing very well. How are you doing? Mike Winson: I'm doing great. You know, every day is is is something new and and surprising and keeping us all on our toes. Jenny Levin: Yeah, I I'd love to say I get to a place where nothing surprises you anymore. but unfortunately it seems the bar just keeps getting raised. So Mike Winson: It Jenny Levin: I I guess that's just the world we live in these days. Mike Winson: It sure does. let's start out with just learning a little bit about you and why you decided to run for District 51 in Illinois. Jenny Levin: Absolutely. Well, I'm Jenny Levan. I'm running for the 51st district. And this is my first ever campaign. I'm actually a registered nurse. I've worked in emergency medicine for over a decade. I started as an EMT, worked my way up to the trauma bays at level one trauma centers and on critical care transport. And I'm currently teaching emergency medicine part-time while running for office. So if it says emergency in it, I've probably done it somewhere. and I just got to a point where I I couldn't in good conscience do it anymore. Like I I'd take care of my patients and I'd tell them, you know, don't worry, we're gonna take care of you, we're gonna do everything we can for you. And I I knew in my soul it it wasn't true because the system isn't set up to take care of our patients or prioritize their needs. And I found myself just kind of like screaming into the void, like, doesn't anybody know what's going on? It it blows my mind that what's happening in our healthcare system and by extension, just in our everyday lives. Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: It blows my mind that it's not at like the headline of every newspaper. But the reality is if you're not aware of the system, if you don't have experience in the system, you you don't really understand how how complex and how very real and dangerous this problem is. So when the opportunity came to run for office, I said, Well, I'm not one to stand there and complain and not take an opportunity to do something about it. So Mike Winson: Mm, yeah. Jenny Levin: here we are, sixteen, seventeen months later into the campaign, and it's been really an amazing experience. And I'm not even on elected yet, so I'm very much excited about it. Mike Winson: Yeah. what has been your experience like running for office? Because I think, you know, most people, especially in twenty twenty six, would probably never even consider running for office in the first place. Jenny Levin: Absolutely. It's been crazy. So I, like many people I've spoken with, kind of grew up and accepted this almost like West Wing version of government where, you know, I don't really need to think about it because the people in charge are very, very smart and they have everyone's best interests and they have to make hard decisions, but they're in it for the right reasons. And and you wanna believe that it's, you know, I never have to worry about it because they're gonna take care of it. And I think we are absolutely at a place in time where we have to accept that no, that's not true. And what we need are people who are in office who represent us, who are us, who have similar experiences Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: to us, and can really understand what the consequences of every decision are. So when I talk to some of my friends and family about running for office, mostly with the intent of telling them, you know, hey. I'm gonna focus all my attention on this. So I'm probably not gonna be around as much. You know, I promise I'm not mad at you or we're not fighting or anything. I'm just Mike Winson: Ha ha ha. Jenny Levin: not gonna be around as much. A lot of them said, that's fantastic. How can we help? So Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: literally my entire campaign up until the last month or so was made up of people who we were learning as we went. We asked lots of questions. Fortunately, our the legislators and other elected officials in our area were great about answering questions and offering guidance, which I really appreciated. But like we were Googling how to file our financial statements and calling the election board and saying, Did we do this right? So literally teaching Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: ourselves and learning as we go. But the focus has always been, you know, who would who would I want to represent me? You know, would I want somebody who knows how to work the system and play the game? Cause that's important. But is it more important than having somebody who understands what I go through when I clock into work every day or the fear of not knowing if you're gonna have enough to pay for your groceries or making financial decisions based on what's going on in the world right now? So it's been ex it's been a roller coaster, but we've we've managed to have fun with it. Mike Winson: Yeah, well good. That fun is something that feels in short supply at times. So I'm glad even while running a campaign you're able to pull off at least a little fun. Jenny Levin: I mean, we still have our streamers up from our office opening a couple months ago just because we figured, Mike Winson: There you go. Jenny Levin: you know, why not come into the office and make it colorful and and have a good time Mike Winson: Exactly. Jenny Levin: and the hard work's gonna be there either way. You might as well find a way to Mike Winson: Yep. Jenny Levin: enjoy it. Mike Winson: Yep. well, speaking of the people around you, as you've walked around and and talked to the people in your district, what are the things that that they talk about most? What are the pain points that they that they want? I know healthcare is obviously as a nurse is really big for you, but what what other things even are are coming through from the people in District 51? Jenny Levin: Healthcare is definitely a big one, especially when people find out I'm a nurse. They want to kind of dig in a little bit more into my experience. Sometimes I s it has happened a couple of times when you knock on a door and someone says, I've got like this thing going on with my hip. Can I ask you some questions about Mike Winson: Ha ha ha. Jenny Levin: like I said we I actually found out recently I I would be the first ever Mike Winson: Off the clock, I'm sorry. Jenny Levin: I know, right? You do though. I love doing it. I I love being a nurse. we made a I found out recently I'd be the first ever registered nurse in Illinois legislation to get elected into the Illinois House. Mike Winson: Wow. Jenny Levin: there's two running for the Senate. I'm the only one running for the House. We had one serve. She was appointed and she served her term, but I would be the first registered nurse elected. So we said we have to make like a video of me getting to Springfield and someone's like, I got this rash. Can you? Mike Winson: Ha ha ha. Jenny Levin: but you said in addition to healthcare, a lot of things tied to affordability, you know, healthcare is very intertwined for that. it it blows my mind that in this day and age we're one medical emergency away from being at risk of losing your home. there's a there's a big problem associated with that in general affordability. You know, I'm of the generation that, you know, we were promised go to college and everything will be great and you'll have a job and it'll be wonderful. Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Jenny Levin: I live on one income. I I understand the financial struggles of trying to make financial decisions based on the fact that you know, ever you shouldn't necessarily be living paycheck to paycheck with, you know, degrees and specialized careers. And yet that's a very common thing. And it's not because we didn't invest in ourselves or our careers. It's the world that we live in. So affordability and all that that entails, whether that's job availability, healthcare, property taxes, all of that is is very much integrated in We need to find ways to offset some of that burden for everybody. So Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: that's a common one that comes up. Mike Winson: I think another common issue that in many ways is bipartisan when it comes to a problem that that we have is this idea of accountability or the lack thereof when it comes to our representatives. how do you see being accountable to the people of District 51? How do you want the people of District 51 to hold you accountable? Jenny Levin: Absolutely. I think as state representative, the job is the title. It's a representative. I'm running for a public servant role. I am running to work for you. So I think one of the most important pieces of that is you need to be able to talk to me and to have a conversation with me and to let me know what's going on in your life or when you're unhappy with something that happened. we hand out palm cards every time we go knock on a door and every event I go to, I bring them. My email is on that and I check that directly. That doesn't get handed off to somebody else to filter through for me. and and I broadcast that and I tell people that comes straight to me. I'm what I want to represent you. I want you to know when you send me an email saying, hey, I have a problem with this, you're gonna get it to me. It's not gonna get lost Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: in transition. another big part of it is I think conversation is one of the best ways that we can do it. so we have made an effort to try to meet people where they're at in whatever medium that looks like. Door knocking is a big one. Again, I'm I was raised in that generation where the doorbell rings, you either go get mom or you hide under the sofa. Like so I can understand some people Mike Winson: Yep. Yep. Jenny Levin: not wanting to come to the door and talk to me. But that's why I make a point to try to go out and be at community events and you know, town festivals and craft fairs and just go out and meet people where they are. We also try to have a very positive social media presence because I want people to be able to see, hey, here's where I'm gonna be in the district. These are the issues we're talking about. so I that kind of accessibility, I think, is a big factor in accountability. I'm not just gonna put out a statement and then just say it is what it is and you deal with it. I I want you to talk to me. Tell me how I'm doing, tell me what your concerns are. and then you mentioned something else I kind of do want to touch on is we do have this very Polarized ecosystem in our politics these days, where, you know, whether it's Republican versus Democrat or even within the Democratic Party now, there's a very us versus them mentality. And I'm cautious of that. I can understand the appeal to it because, you know, I I like sports. I have my sports teams that I follow. Purdue basketball is definitely one of them. But Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: it's great to be on a team, but when It comes to our government and our politics and things that matter like that, I think we forget that we're we're we're all on the same team. We're just trying to find different ways to get to the answers. So I really try to focus on, you know, I'm I'm not running to represent only the Democrats. I identify with a lot of democratic policy and democratic ideas, but I still want to know what your concerns are if you identify as Republican. I still want to know. what's important to you and what's impacting your life because I think it's my job to represent that regardless of how you voted. Mike Winson: Yeah. Well, speaking of the division, there is an unfortunate division that we are dealing with. and there are obviously many ways that there are many possible reasons for different parts of it. Obviously, identity politics is a huge problem. What has been your experience though when you have talked to Republicans, especially considering the affordability problems and the ineffectiveness of Republicans around the country right now when it comes to helping any American citizens. Jenny Levin: Mm-hmm. I some of my favorite conversations I've had at the door have been with people who disagree with me on different things. And the reason for that is I think when you have a conversation, instead of just kind of sticking to like the kind of clickbaity talking points or like, you know, the memes or headlines that you see everywhere, it's an opportunity to actually dig in a little bit deeper into okay, why do you feel that way? I had a literally had a conversation yesterday with somebody who told me. he does not believe that people who are here undocumented should receive life-saving medical care because it costs the system money. Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: And I I, as an emergency nurse, I told him we're we're gonna disagree on that. Because when you come to me in the trauma phase or with a life-threatening heart attack, I'm I'm not gonna say, hold on, let me see your papers before. No, I'm gonna save your life. That's what I Mike Winson: You're not gonna spend time, yeah. Yeah. Jenny Levin: do. but in having a conversation, we were able to kind of He was able to explain his frustration of, you know, I came to this country 10, 15 years ago, I don't remember what he said. You know, I did it the quote unquote right way. I was able to get streamlined through. And we actually came to a place of agreement of, well, it can be a financial strain when we have this situation. However, human dignity is important. And also, Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Jenny Levin: wouldn't it make more sense to streamline the process so that people who want to come be a part of this community? are able to do so and contribute and pay taxes and, you know, be a c become integrated into the country that they're trying to become a part of. Wouldn't that make more sense than demonizing people and withholding rights from them? And Mike Winson: Sure. Jenny Levin: we came to a place of agreement that w we may not agree on these things, but we can agree that maybe this is where we can make this better. So I really appreciate those conversations because it's an opportunity to find out, you know, To my genuine core, I don't believe that, you know, we want things that are that different. I just think we have our own history and our own experiences and our own values that have shaped the way we approach these problems. And I I say this all the time. I think we have a messaging problem more so than anything, because you get so tied to that message of, well, this is what my team does, this is what I believe, this is what should be right. it kind of keeps us from having an open conversation about well, this is what we're all actually trying to achieve. So I I really enjoy those conversations. Mike Winson: Sure. Yeah. I definitely noticed more and more people that are running for office being able to have conversations that they may not even be able to have two years ago because Jenny Levin: Mm-hmm. Mike Winson: it's it's opened that door for a lot of people to just be like, what's what's right? What's wrong? What's what's considered acceptable? Like you said, w you know, there's a there's a humanity aspect to some of this that we've gotta be able to. Come together on to some point if we actually want to fix anything. Jenny Levin: I completely agree. Somebody told me, well, we believe different things, but I I still think you're a good person. And I said, What do we believe that's different? And and he wasn't able to tell me anything. You know, we we identify with different political parties. We have different ideas about, you know, what should be our priorities or what we should focus on or how we should fund it. But I we all want the children in our lives and the next generation to be safe and educated and have opportunities. We want we know our parents are aging and we want them to be taken care of and you know, not have to worry about losing our homes because of something out of our control. We all believe in the same things. It's just different ways to get about it. Mike Winson: Yeah. As someone who's running for the House of Representatives in Illinois, you obviously don't have any you won't have any authority over the federal government, but Jenny Levin: Mm-hmm. Mike Winson: you will have to Deal with decisions sometimes that are made by the federal government. What kind of things are is Illinois dealing with? It can be specifically in 51 or just whole, because obviously when you're there, you'll be part of the whole. Jenny Levin: Mm-hmm. Mike Winson: What are some areas that you see trying to help Illinois that you are being affected by decisions that have been made by the federal government? Jenny Levin: Finance is gonna be one of the biggest ones. Illinois has not been a place that federal government has been kind to in terms of, you know, financial restrictions. And, you know, this time last year we had ICE agents very, very commonly in our community in fifty one. and actually I I was part of lots of groups that formed like neighborhood watches where when someone was Mike Winson: Wow. Jenny Levin: in the area, you know, send up the troops, we'd just go rally and videotape, blow whistles. Get groceries for your neighbors. So there's definitely been a a little bit of frustration there, to put it way too mildly. Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: but I think financially with with the budget that passed last summer, I finance is already struggling right now. Affordability is already a struggle right now. I don't think people have fully comprehended how bad it's going to be in January when Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: everything really does come into play. I've heard this argument many, many times that, well, I don't have to worry about Medicaid getting cut because I'm going about, I'm getting my Medicaid the right way and I need to be on it. Okay, well, the way that it's structured, keeping yourself on Medicaid even when you deserve it, is going to be a full-time job in and of itself. And those who need it may not have the resources to be able to do it. So It it's not just the few people slipping through the cracks taking advantage of it that are gonna get kicked off the system. It's people who genuinely rely on it who are gonna get kicked off the system. And then in addition to that, I've had people tell me, Well, I have insurance through my job or through my spouse, so I don't need to worry about it because I already have insurance. The hospitals are going to get paid. They're going to raise their prices other places. That's the way that the insurance system works. So you are going to feel it financially. You are going to be paying for it in one way or another. And I I don't think people have fully realized we were already in a really bad situation as it was. Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: I work in emergency medicine, so I could go on for a long time about Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: how the emergency departments have become our primary care providers. There are people who won't be able to go see a doctor. Or they'll call their doctor, they have insurance, they have a doctor, they'll call with a question and they'll say, come in in four months. We're already there. Mike Winson: Yep. Or specifically tell you to go to the emergency room. Jenny Levin: Or they'll tell you to go to the emergency room because they don't want the liability of waiting for you to come in and get assessed. Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: So I'd say 90% of the patients that I took care of in the ER could have been handled with a general practitioner visit. And that is just going to continue to get worse because the ER is the one place that you know you're going to get seen when you come in. You might be waiting quite a few hours in the waiting room. But federal law says if you come to an emergency room, you have to get seen and cleared by a physician. And they're not going to ask you how you're going to pay for it before you get seen, because again, federal law mandates that if you come to an emergency room, you will be seen and stabilized before we can look into how you're going to pay for it. So That's going to continue to get worse. And the thing, specifically in that area, that's gonna be an even more immediate problem for some people is when you come into the ER with a legitimate life-threatening injury illness, you're gonna be dealing with a staff that is already so overworked and so overwhelmed without a bed for you to be in and get effectively treated, you can have every piece of the best insurance possible. you are still going to suffer because of these cuts and because of what's being done to just shred our healthcare system. Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: And unfortunately, I don't think people are going to realize that until it affects them personally, just because again, we only know what we have experience with. Mike Winson: I want to do a little future casting if you don't mind. so Jenny Levin: Absolutely. Mike Winson: November third comes around and you win. Congratulations. January Jenny Levin: Thank you. Mike Winson: comes around and you are sworn in as the representative for District 51. What are the first one or two things that you want to do? Jenny Levin: One of the first things I want to do is I want to find ways to invest more in preventative medicine and Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: investing in our healthcare system in a more humane way. So we live in a world where things are getting shut down, things are getting cut. you hear a lot in like the southern parts of the states about how you know there there won't be an OB doctor for, you know, pr prenatal or postnatal care. in you know surrounding counties, that's happening up here as well. We just shut down one down the street. It's just a little bit further south from District 51. So if you lived in that area, you now have to go to neighboring towns to get obstetric care. So I would like to see some investment in preventative care incentivizing and making it easier for like nurse practitioners to open up their own practice for family medicine. It's it's cheaper than a physician from an insurance standpoint. you can get better access and have more time with your primary care provider who can know you better and answer questions rather than have to get you to five or six specialists before you get an answer, which also saves money. And that will take some of the burden off of the hospitals and emergency rooms that are serving as a lot of primary care right now. So that's one concrete example. In general, I I don't pretend to be an economics expert. I will be the first person to say I am an expert in what I'm an expert in. You want to talk about hyperkalemia from crush injuries? I gotcha. We could go about that. But I don't know. Mike Winson: Which is a constant conversation I always have with people. Jenny Levin: It's it can be. It makes watching medical shows with me really fun. I watch them like my dad watches football. It's good times. Mike Winson: I bet. Yeah. Jenny Levin: But you know, so I talk about healthcare because that's where my experience is and that's what I want to bring to the table. I think the other piece of that is I'm somebody who will be the first to say, I don't know what I don't know. So let's find the people who need to be heard. We're talking Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: about education in our community and what's gonna be best for our kids and what's gonna be best for our school systems. Let's elevate the voices of teachers and get their educated experience heard and at the table so that we can rely on them to figure out what's the best way forward rather than approaching it only from a budgetary point of view. Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: data centers is a big topic that everybody wants to discuss right now. Nobody wants data centers. completely understand that I hear that all the time. We also have a time that we live in that we rely on technology and it's it's here and it's not going to go away. So rather than me make a decision as somebody with nursing experience, I know that I need to be someone who will elevate the voices of technology experts. You know, what's the trend of this going to be? If we build these data centers, how soon is it going to be before they're obsolete? And now we just have an empty building taking up space and wasting resources. bringing in environmental experts to the conversation. You know, one of the things that's being discussed is making data centers self-reliant on their own resources and renewable energy and decreasing the environmental impact. Fantastic. That would be great. How do we regulate that and make sure that that's what's happening if it's decided this is a way that we go about it? What's Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: the research to say this is actually going to be effective? Finding ways to get those people heard. and listening and really taking in what they have to say, I would say that as a representative, that is ninety-nine percent of my job is to listen and then be the one to help pull the pieces together is that other 1%. Mike Winson: So for everyone that has listened up until this point and heard everything that you've said about what you hope to do for the people of District fifty one and Illinois, what are one or two things that no matter what, you would want to make sure they come away with knowing about you and your campaign? Jenny Levin: The number one thing that I want people to know is that like I said, the accessibility of like I want you to I want to hear from you, even if you disagree from with me. I genuinely want to know your story and I want you to know that I am listening and I intend to represent you to the best of my ability. Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: the other thing about me is that you know, what you see is what you get. I'm always gonna be honest and just tell you what's going on. Like I said, I'll be the first to tell you when I don't have the answers, but I wanna go find them. and with that, I am never going to be the type of person who's gonna tell you that we'll fix it day one, it'll be easy, it'll be great, and we'll be I I refuse to be that person because it's not true. Mike Winson: So grocery prices aren't going down day one? No. Okay. Dang it. Jenny Levin: Nope, not because of anything that I know how to do. I mean if I could, I would, trust me. But I'm the person who has had to deliver the worst news anyone will receive Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: in their life. I am very experienced and and understand the the desire to cushion bad news, but I also understand why it's so important to get all of the information and to know the situation that you're in. So I am never Gonna candy coat and promise you something that I can't follow through on. I'm gonna be honest and I'm gonna tell you. But with that same mindset, I'm also just as genuine when I tell you that I think there is a lot to be hopeful about. I think there are a lot of good things happening. It's gonna take time. And even if all we get right away is small changes, that's still moving the ball forward. Small changes are something we can build on. Small improvements are still improvements. You know, it it takes ten seconds to knock a house down, it takes a decade to rebuild it. So even if we are making small improvements, hopefully we're making enough of them that you can feel it in your day to day life while we work on some of the bigger problems. But I think that's reason to be hopeful. Mike Winson: That brings up an interesting question because obviously you've said in your in your district you've had to deal with ice there. because of the affordability, because of the war, because of gas prices, just a whole bunch of things. There are a lot of people that are suffering. and some like fear for their lives on a daily basis. What would you say to people that hear you say, even moving the ball a little bit? is moving the ball, but are afraid of just tomorrow and the survival of tomorrow. Jenny Levin: Mm-hmm. I'm never gonna speak for somebody else's experience. I I will be the first one to say, and I've said this publicly, I have the benefit of my skin color that, you know, my experience stepping out of my door is different than somebody else's, and I acknowledge my my position in that. I think there is a spectrum of things that need to get fixed immediately and things that are definite and things that are a little bit more nuanced and complicated. people should not. be afraid to step out of their door and walk around their community. To me, that's an area where small improvements, that's that's not acceptable. When I said that I was more so referring to like financial changes and, you know, policy changes and stuff. Mike Winson: For sure. Jenny Levin: I no, you should not be afraid to go to the grocery store. You should not feel like I can't drive on this intersection because I know it's heavier traffic and it's more likely that something's going to happen to me. It it should not that to me is a hard never. Where I see reason to be hopeful in that is for so for example, COVID, everyone was staying at home doing their part, and you felt like nothing was happening, and you get stuck in this little z doom scrolling of this is the bubble and this is where everything is bad. I went to the hospital and I got to feel like I was doing something. And even though it was hard, don't get me wrong, COVID was really, really difficult for many reasons in the hospital. I get still had that feeling of I get to leave my house and feel like I'm helping. With the ICE in our community situation, I saw those community watch groups forming. I saw we still do a weekly rally in Palatine, which is not Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: quite in my district, it's just outside my district. we go out to a corner in Palatine every Friday afternoon and hold up signs saying how much we love our neighbors and we support our neighbors. And you can see the hope that that gives people to see people standing up for them and recognizing that you belong here and we want you here. I've seen community organizers put together teams to go help grocery shopping. I'll go walk with you, I'll pick up from the food bank for you, I'll stand by the bus stop with your kids so you don't feel like you have to. Not acceptable that we live in a world where that's necessary, but where I find hope is the fact that there are people who are willing to step up and do that and say we don't accept this and we're gonna do something about it. So again, the reality is as much as this is unacceptable, it's not something that you know, I as a candidate, I as an individual state rep can fix, you know, what's happening at the federal level. But what I can do is focus on those smaller things that can relieve some of that burden and that Mike Winson: Mm. Jenny Levin: can you know, help a little bit. And to me, that's something to get excited about and that's something worth fighting for. Mike Winson: Absolutely. for anyone that wants to learn more about you or support you, whether financially or volunteering for you, where can they find you? Jenny Levin: Absolutely. jennielevann.com, the spelling is actually behind me. Could not believe jenile.com Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny Levin: was available. We d I was very excited when I saw that. on there you'll find links to events we have coming up. you'll find links to all of my social media. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, and Blue Sky. I can I don't run my own social media, I'm sorry. I consult on it a lot, but I'm not the one who does all Mike Winson: Ha ha ha. Jenny Levin: the posting. So I have a wonderful, wonderful friend who helps me with that. I'm a terrible millennial. I didn't have an Instagram until I ran for office. So not Mike Winson: Ha Jenny Levin: my expertise. But again, you you bring up people who are smarter than you and more experienced than you to help you out. those are Mike Winson: Fair. Exactly. Exactly. Well we'll make sure to put all the links down below. Jenny Levin: Appreciate. Those are the two best ways. Jennylevanne.com is the easiest. And again, my email is on there, connect at jennylevand.com. I I genuinely want to hear from people and I I r I do respond and engage in conversations through those emails. So please don't hesitate to reach out. Mike Winson: Yeah. Jenny, thank you for joining us and letting us learn more about you and what you hope to do for the people of your district. I appreciate it. Jenny Levin: Thank you so much for the opportunity to to have a chat. I really appreciate it and I appreciate what you do elevating other candidates and and helping get some recognition. That that makes a difference. So thank you. Mike Winson: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, it was my pleasure. for everyone that has listened and gotten all the way to the end, thank you very much. I appreciate it. It helped makes it possible to continue doing what I'm doing. So please hit all those buttons down below. for those of you that may be new to breaking the meta, just so you know breaking the meta is about having hard conversations when necessary, fighting to break the status quo and the idea that all people, no matter your race, religion, gender, or identity, deserve rights, respect, dignity, and safety. Again, Jenny, thank you for being here. For everyone else, we'll see you next time. On breaking the meta. Bye guys.