Latest / The Mami Collective / How to Find the Support You Need as a Working Mom with Abbey Bigi-Prow of Le Village

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How to Find the Support You Need as a Working Mom with Abbey Bigi-Prow of Le Village · The Mami Collective

• Paulina: If you're a mom who needs just one night that's all about you, I need you at Mommy Name Easy, the Mommy Collective Summit on October 1st at the Mayfield in Chicago. We're talking incredible food and drinks, local vendors, live music, amazing raffles, inspiring conversations, and our signature panel featuring moms who are building careers, businesses, and lives they love. Plus, I'm excited to announce that Anna Bellaval will be joining us as our surprise guest for a live conversation and audience QA. Trust me, you don't want to miss this one. Grab your tickets now at theMommy Collective.com. I'll see you there. Welcome to The Mommy Collective. I'm Paulina Rowe, radio host, TV contributor, writer, and mom of one. This is where ambitious moms come to keep their identity intact while navigating motherhood. Here we talk about the real stuff, career, Money, relationships, identity, and everything that gets messy in between. You won't find sugarcoating or cliches. What you will find are unfiltered conversations, real resources, and proof that you don't have to lose yourself to be a good mom. The mommy collective is here to remind you you can be ambitious, you can take up space, and you can thrive in motherhood and in everything else that makes you you. Before we get into the episode, make sure you're following the mommy collective on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. And share this podcast with a mommy in your life who Needs a little inspiration or just a reminder that she's killing it. Also, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter and leave us a review so we can keep showing up and reach every ambitious mom out there doing big things. Let's get into it. Hi, it's Paulina here, Mommy Collective, another episode. I am so excited today for my guest because not only is she such a part of my village, I hope that after this episode she can be part of yours too. Abby BG Pro, the owner and director of Les Village Cowork Ult Route 66, located here in Lines. How are you today? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me on. This is so fun. Thank you. I know. Thank you for joining. So, first things first, ⁓ we love Abby in this house. So, Abby really has really like enhanced my motherhood experience. And by that I mean like you have given me a village that I never knew existed, right? So if someone's like, What does that mean, Paulina? Well, To me, it means that I have discovered you. And I always say I wish I met you and discovered you earlier because I have a two-year-old, right? And you know, and everyone knows I I work very early mornings. I work in radio, but I still do like a hundred and fifty things after the show, whether it's for my own stuff, Rami Collective, or still just radio stuff that's gotta get done. And it just became so hard to do when I was at home with my you know, 18 month old, whatever age she was, right? And it was all cute in games until she really started like, you know, wanting my attention more and playing, right? And that happens as early as like, I don't even know, maybe six, seven, eight months. So it was just so hard to kind of do both at the same time. And what I love about your space that you have created here in lines, and we're gonna dive all into that in a second, is that I feel like you've given me my time back. But also like mental clarity and just the reassuring feeling of like my kid is in really good hands. And my favorite part of this is that I'm in the same building that she's in. And I won't ever stop bragging about that. So Abby, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you. It was a wonderful introduction. And it makes me so incredibly happy to hear your story about that too. Well, thank you. No, no, no. It's about you today though. I just had to share that because I whenever I talk about you guys, I feel like I'm giving like a TED talk and people are probably like, I just asked for the directions and I'm over here just like giving them my life story because I'm like, no, like you have to hear about this place. It's so awesome. So, Abby, I wanted to get you on the podcast today because like I said, you're a big part of my village, but for so many other parents and moms and even dads, right, that are experiencing the same thing. I I really want to kind of dive into you and you're a mom of two twin boys. And you are also a wife and you are, I believe, a photographer. And I think you're still you're still photographing your your butt off. So I think that's awesome. I mean, not only are you busy creating community, but you're also like busy with your own kind of right entrepreneurial journey. So Abby, I would love for you to kind of give us a little bit of a background about yourself, you know, your work and then your family too. Absolutely. ⁓ so yeah, I'll give the sort of Cliff Notes version of it because yeah, it's it happened pretty organically. I've been a family photographer for 15, almost 20 years. And then when my wife and I decided to have babies, but I had always worked with children, right? I did newborn family photography. I was a nanny when I first started my business. So children have always been in the realm. ⁓ And I was super cocky and was like, Well, when we have babies, I'll just edit when they nap, right? Like I can still like you know, maybe take six months off and then I'll go right back to it. But I don't need to do anything. And then we were having twins, and then I was like, Well, okay, so maybe I need help, but searching for help, it was really kind of impossible. And just so I mean, it was either part-time care is hard to find affordable care, especially for two infants at the same time, was impossible to find. I mean, there were nannies that were maybe available, but they were eighteen and asking for more than I made. And that was hard for me. And I still in then even when I did have in-home help, I couldn't like completely disconnect. I was always trying to kind of attune to them. So it just so happened that I was in a mom's group and somebody mentioned Lay Village because another mom was kind of going through it too. ⁓ Daniela Corneau is our founder and just, you know, was a work from home and was like, this was supposed to be more flexible. I thought this was supposed to be easier. And then so yeah, so Danny was like, If this was I thought, but I still can't pick my kid up before four or drop them off after eight. And it has to be I pay for five days a week. You know, anyway, all of that to say, she found this need, she did all the legwork, I was a benefit. ⁓ I found them, they didn't even have walls, but I was like, This is a I met her, I met her curriculum coordinator, the vibes were great, and I was like, Where do I sign? I was like, there's no walls, take my babies, call me when there's walls. And so yeah, I was I started part-time there just two days a week. And after we were there for three years, even after moving to Berwin, we still made this trip into the city. But I I knew pretty quickly that this was a journey that I it was so life saving in my journey as like a mother, as well as I mean, I could not have continued being a photographer if I hadn't found them. And in the world of being a photographer, if you drop out of the, you know, the game for two years, you just don't exist anymore. So all of that to say, yeah, it was it was, yeah, exactly. But so to hear you say your experience was very much my experience as well. I was connecting with other moms that had babies. I mean, we went through COVID together. ⁓ so it was a whole mainfall of everything. But when we moved this way, I knew that this was something that could maybe take me into, you know, retirement. So and I did. I built a photo studio on site which I haven't gotten to use enough of yet, but we'll get there soon. ⁓ because we just opened in September of last year. But starting to grow and build our own community here. And so seeing families really utilize the care and love our staff and love our program and love what we're doing exactly all of the things to me. Sorry. No, that's amazing. That's it's an incredible story. So okay, kind of take us through really quickly because you mentioned it. You yourself attended Lee Village and you used Lay Village like that was your Quite little village. So now when did you wake up and go, I think I'm gonna do this? Cause you already had twins, photographer, you had your like your life was life in. So at what point were you like, I'm gonna open up my own? Like we're gonna keep the community growing. I had kind of been looking into franchises for a few years before that, just because again, 10, almost 12 years of family photography at that point. I love, love, love what I do. But as a creative entrepreneur, it's hard to plan retirement or vacations or I do most of my business in three months out of the year. ⁓ my back hurts with the newborn. It's like I'm getting older. ⁓ so I kind of looked at something. ⁓ and then again, Danny had kind of played around with the idea of franchising or opening a second location. And so we kind of approached that together. She has her own team. ⁓ and it just so happened to work. But I was the first one to sign on as a franchisee. But because I'm picky and stubborn and crazy and did things my way, I bought a giant empty warehouse in the suburb. So three it took me three years to open it while I photographed and raised my twins the whole time. But now there are six of us. So yeah, there are six slay villages and she's actively franchising more, but all independently owned, all moms and families who are mostly raising their kiddos site too. So it very much is a like family affair. Hundred percent. I can attest to that. So when people walk into Lay Village, right, what do you hope that they feel within like the first five minutes? And I'll tell you my experience too, because I I know my I know my answer. I think of this place as an extension of my home and I want it to be welcoming and I want it to be inviting and I want it to be comfortable. I want people to feel welcome and I want them to feel that, you know, they can their kids can run through to the other room and you know, like they're they don't have to gonna break something, you I that's my hope at least that ⁓ it's a place for grown-ups and kids. They're all welcome. A hundred percent. Yeah, I definitely felt that like the moment that I came in, ⁓ because when I called you ⁓ to like kind of ask like questions and like, you know, what is this? I'm so interested. Like I just remember being like, can I like sign up like yesterday? I was just so excited about it. And when I came in, my first like impression or just like my first initial thought was like, That's so cool that I'm gonna be on my computer like right there and I'll be doing some Zoom or something. And my kid who like we've we haven't done the detach and and you my kid too, like she's not like super clingy with me. And I do feel like she's very confident as a child, and I I love that. But I was nervous. I'm like, ⁓ you know, I think I was more nervous than she was, but I was like, ⁓ she'll be away from me for the first time. You know, you know, air quotes away. ⁓ my first thought was like, she's gonna be in that room right over there. And everything was so like. beautiful, organized, you know, and it sounds so silly, but even to me, I was like, ⁓ there's no screens, like this is great, you know, at home, we have enough TV, you know. So I was just like, Well how do I take her out of the environment of like the comfort of her home and this and that and like put her here and like will she be ready? She's only well maybe she was what, like twenty months? I can't even remember something like that. And then, you know, coming into here, I was like, okay, everyone's so nice, first and foremost. Everyone's so kind. Everyone is so equipped. And then It's cool because like all the parents, like we're all on this like same journey, same boat. We're all just trying to make this work. And like there's literal childcare, you know, two feet from us. Like it the impression of it was just so incredible. My impression was, and that's something that I really hope like, you grows. Like whether it's you doing it or like other People are franchising. I just hope that this concept just continues to grow because it's the best thing in the world. So that was my impression. I have to just think sometimes I do worry that I made it a little too pretty because I feel like sometimes people are like scared to raise their voice or something. It's like, no, for real. I was like, my brain looks more like the studio that you can't see, which is like things open everywhere in piles. But I get we are super welcome. The whole that's the whole thing. I do think that there's a type of person who is drawn to this. I mean, it is not for everybody, right? It is not some people can't work from home. Totally get that. And some people, if their child is upset at the thought at the first, can't be on site to hear that. And some would, you know, we have one of ours where our like kiddo who had the hardest time adjusting, it was two days of just crying, which was so sad. I mean, it kills us as caregivers. And we've been doing it for years. ⁓ and I, you know, trying to reassure mom and she's like, I'm here. I know that you guys are attending to his every need and that's great. She's like, that is more comforting to me than dropping him off somewhere and like knowing that he's missing me, but I can't be there to see it. But again, not ever but I think there's something about this community who really want to be involved with their kids' lives. They want to know their teachers. They want to know their friends. They want to look at somebody and be like, My kid is doing the weirdest thing. Is your kid also doing this? Because they're about the same age or you know. So I think there's something about that community part of it that's really bonding and welcome. I 100% agree. ⁓ no, I I love it. What problem do you feel like you were trying to solve, right? When you like opened this specific location here in Lions, you know, was there like a moment where you thought, ⁓ if this existed when I became a mom, my life would look different, you know? Like, was that kind of like a thought? What problem were you looking to solve? Yes. I think again, because I was a member first. ⁓ And again, I member when like my boys were four months old. ⁓ that's great. Yeah. So they I was like literally, I mean, and I was at the point where like I was jump like attacking my wife when she came in the door. Like, talk to me, talk to talk to me, talk to me. Like, I need adult stimulation. We need to do things. I need to get out of the house. So it was just as much for me as them. I think, especially in the beginning, I think I definitely talked more than I worked. But so yes, this connection of I but I all of this to say I don't think I could have been a full-time stay-at-home mom. I don't think I could have been a full-time working parent either. And that is not a shade on either one of those. It's just a me situation. So I was lucky enough and as my kids grew and I s talked to other parents and heard their stories, I realized how lucky I was. And I was like, other people need to be able to do this. Like I again was able to keep my career. I worked, you know, three full well, four full days a week when my wife had the boys on the weekend. So I could shoot on Saturdays. We had family day on Sunday, but then I could take Tuesday off and take my kids to the zoo. I got to have lunch with them every single day for four years until they went to a traditional pre-K. And I realized in the moment it was like, ⁓ my God, I need this. And like almost a relief. And then looking back, it was like, I am so lucky. And other people need that too. And I still feel like that's kind of the message we're trying to bring. I don't I think it's different in the city where there's a few of us and people know, but I think I'm still trying to kind of tell people who we are in the suburbs and that it's not just ⁓ play place, which again. Love, utilized, need will sing their praises and still will, but it's just a different, yeah. We're more of like a a daycare situation than we are like a drop in. So again, but you can really like get work done. You can sit down, you still don't have to wipe your kids' butt. Like when they need you know, they can r at a play place they run back from playing and you still have to like take them to the restroom. It's it's a very it's a curriculum and learning and play and all of the things. So And do you mind telling us about their curriculum? Because I remember that was my one of my first questions. And you gave me the coolest answer I think I've ever heard. You said it was almost like a mix. And I can never pronounce the first one. So please forgive me. I call it like Rugilio Emilio, but it's not what it's called. There is like I mean, again, our our curriculum was designed by people who know and study all these things, but we call it Waldisori kind lovingly. Waldessory, that's what it was. Waldessory, but it's a mix of the two. I thought that was the coolest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. We are heavily Montessori inspired. So even at like when our babies are coming up into the top of the room at fifteen, sixteen months, we'll start practicing like taking anyway. So not to get but yeah, so we'll start practicing some of the Montessori and you know, independence and things like that. But we're not gonna make them sit down and learn their ABCs. It is also, you know, it's we're play-based. We're play-based. It's based on imaginative play, correct and just independence and imagination and fun things to do. We, you know, work on our four pillars. We call it big body, little hands. Then crafts and sensory. So big body is obviously gross motor, little hands is fine motor. But yeah, so it's we scale it from, you know, our three months to our four and a half years. Try to develop all of those things. I just thought it was the coolest thing I ever heard. Remember you're like, We're a mix, and then you mentioned the the I can't I can't say this one either. Wald Waldorf? Wall dwarf. Yeah, Waldorf is is big imagination and cre I bet. So yeah, we bring a little bit of ever all of the best parts of things in. Yeah. 'Cause like I had a lot of two boys who were not Montessori boys, but they were allowed to create and explore in other ways. And they, you know, so they got they gained so much from the wall des from the Montessori benefits as well. So and the practices. So that is so cool. Yeah, as a new mom, when I was like searching for, you know, childcare, what what does it look like? Woo woo woo. And like deep inside, I I mean, I admit this all the time. I'm like, I wasn't ready to fully like go to like full daycare again, because she like it's She's always with family in the morning when I'm working, and then it would be me all day. And I have sitters at the house, but they would I'd be upstairs, you know. So again, it was like my own live lay village at home. I was upstairs, sitter was downstairs, right? So I'm like, I'm really close, I can hear everything, but I never like dropped her off. So one of the things too, I was like, you know, I feel like every new mom goes through this too. I'm like, what is Mana's story? I'm over here googling all these things, you know, and I'm like, I don't know what that is. And then the that one came up, the Waldrove one, and then there's other ones. And I was like, That's so interesting. Like No idea. Again, learning. So I thought it was so cool that we explained it. And you could you could learn forever. I did, you know, daddy did our different I mean, and again, our curriculum was designed. You know, we have a curriculum coordinator who's got a master's in early ed and and mon and monitor education. So we did all of that so you don't have to, and we just give you the good parts. And we're like, Hey, this is what this is supposed to be. This is you know what they're making pasta snakes today. And like, which yeah, it's a cute craft, but it's also for like developing fine motor skills. So yeah, she can you know, thread a string through the pasta where our younger ones, you give them a pipe cleaner 'cause it's a little hard, but it's all developing by motor skills and they get a cute snake out of it. You know, you read a story about it. I love it. And I know it is too at home, like just how she's doing certain things. And they might be little to us. I mean we're full grown adults, but I forgot the other day I was at a I at a text your or message you about it. It was so cute. She was doing something and I was like, I never taught her that. But she knew and it was something so small. Maybe it was with like I think it was maybe even opening like a creamer at the diner at the we went to breakfast. She was doing something and I was like and it wasn't this tantrum thing, it wasn't anything big, crazy. She just slowly did it and I was like the way she did it was I can tell she was using her motor skills like as a two year old and I I was just so impressed. And I maybe it was you guys, maybe she just I don't know, woke up one day, wanted coffee creamer. I don't know. But she they're so cute. And I was like, Okay, this is what they mean by like you know, these curriculums in the outside world, right? Like as she's learning them at school. Again, it's all play, but it's you know, developing real skills that you'll need or exactly. Hundred percent. It was so cute. So I kinda wanna really quickly pick your brain. I hate that quote. I don't know why I just said that, but I kinda wanna just dive into the marketing part of it because, you know, your business ⁓ here at Lay Village, I mean it's not new, but you know said I opened last September. And I feel like you I mean I could be wrong, but I feel like, you we we've got we've got a whole lot of people sitting out there, which is amazing. And so many kids and I know there's different age groups and stuff. So for a mom listening who is starting, you know, could be a a similar, you know, child care business or anything you've been f anything similar to it, how do you market, right? How do you get your families in the door? Like what what are your kind of secret, the secret sauce that you've been using? That is a great question. I I don't know. Honestly, ⁓ we were lucky enough to have Danny and them do some of it for us, but a specifically, especially as we're branching out into new suburbs. I as much as I cause when I was social media was kind of everything when my boys were a little, but that was seven years ago. And now I feel like people have a real and probably genuine distrust of social media. But as a parent, and what I'm finding is that people are still pretty much finding us through social. So I mean again, when I need a plumber, I go to the moms groups because I trust moms more than anybody else. And I know, you know, I'm like who has a plumber that they've used and like and isn't gonna screw me over because, you know, I'm a busy mom. Excuse the language. But yeah, so I still go there and I think other people do too. What after spinning my wheels and going to all the, you know, joining all the chambers and doing all the networking and things like that, what's felt the best to me and the most organic and probably giving me the biggest reach is just genuine connections. I found with other parents like Army Grace, who actually introduced us and is wonderful and genuine and a resource where I was like, I she is one who has like, I wish you were around when I was a kid. How wonderful is what she does. And I will sing her praises throughout every day. And I knew opening up that because we were late opening and we were opening right in the middle of when everybody already had care. So it's like, and again, it's for me as a photographer and whatever, I all the seasons, it was busy. It was crazy. And I was like, what I was kind of pitching people was I can't right now what I know I have is no brain I have no brain power and I have no money and I have no like bandwidth, but what I have is space and this ability and want to really connect people. So if you can use my space and ⁓ we'll give you a percentage off, if you're bringing in my target market, free, right? Whatever. If we have the space, it's yours to use. I can't promise that I'm going to repost everything because I'm but So that was again people who I really believed in, messages that I really believed in, making genuine connections and then just singing their praises as much as I possibly could when I was on social and vice versa has been probably the best for me. I think don't try to fit yourself into a box that you don't fit into. Like do what works best because I feel like people can smell that pretty organically, right? I was like, if you're promising big things and you can't back it up, then don't. But like go with your strengths, go with people you like, know you like, you know, all of that. That would be my advice, I guess. Absolutely. And you've been pretty, from what I've seen, you've been pretty smart about utilizing this space. Like, you know, you I know you host like kids' birthday parties that, you know, I can rent it out for my daughter's birthday, which we gotta talk. I gotta put that on the calendar. I know because I was looking and I'm like, we gotta make g start getting this going. And I have a Halloween party for her every year. It's a thing I made. I don't know why I did it, but it's cute. But like it's just to me, I from looking at it from like a business owner perspective, it's like, well, these are ways to write grow. people coming in the door or just even grow whatever, whatever like your goals are. You also do like ⁓ some some weekend events too, like sensory Sundays. And like those are cool because A, I get the kid out of the house, you on a Sunday morning. It's always so fun. But again, like you're you're offering more to the community for maybe like you said, those moms who don't work from home, who don't have that kind of flexibility. So it still gets them in the door, introduces them to this community. So I think as a business owner, that's really that's really savvy. It's smart. Thank you. And it was again, it was a part of what I really wanted to build. You know, Danny utilized her members too. Like, so that's the other part of this. Whereas I still am like best friends with eight of the women that we all went to Lay Village together. So our babies were in the classroom at four and eight months together, like four and six months together. And now it's seven years old. They just got tin cans and they're gonna call each other. They see each they're like cousins and their moms are my best friends. And I've utilized one for marketing. There's a jewelry maker who like Danny would have and do like ⁓ for Valentine's Day one day. She like one year she like had her come in and like we made rings together and one's a life coach. And so she would come in and talk to us about, you know, dynamic changes and partnerships and things. And so it was just all of like she brought the community in and I still want to expand on that. I'm not having been scratched the surface. Once I have more time and resources, I would love because it's it's not even about like I mean, yeah, I think people who get us get us, right? Like I don't have to sell Lay Village because again we're not gonna work for everybody. So it's not even about selling Lay Village to like get more memberships. It's definitely it's about creating that community for people who maybe can't utilize Lay Village or you know, or for new moms who feel really alone or new parents, I should say, because we have we we got a lot of dads on site too, where the dollars like, are there dudes here? I'm like, there are dudes here. You're cool. Like you're not gonna be the only dude in the lunchroom, I promise. ⁓ okay to ask that. And yeah, in fact, one of our Dads who is on maternity or is on paternity leave is bringing their daughter back twice a week until they can come back full time just to get her, you know, back with her friends and things. And he's building our lockers in the w workout room, which he's like, I've got some time. And I was like, You're amazing. I was gonna have to pay somebody to do that. So like this village comes together and supports each other. And it really is about like making these like genuine connections. Hundred percent agree. And then what's something that people assume? I always think it's really interesting, but what's something people assume about owning a business that couldn't be farther from the truth. We got money. I was like, I think that we're rich or that we're doing this just for them. I mean, again, I would say, like, I joke what that is, that that we're doing it just for the money. Where in most small business owners that I know take a pay cut before anybody else. I mean, if we're slow, my staff is getting paid. I'm not getting paid. Right. Like for sure or anything else. Or again, I do this for the kids. I do this for the community. I do this for my kids. Like, yes, I need it to be, you know, at some point, this would be great to like, you know, pass on to them or whatever, but that's not what drives me day to day. And again, I would for sure again it's definitely not my personal bankroll. So it's like I do this for the community. And like I said, I think most small businesses and the small business owners put in way more time. If you did if you tallied up hourly what we get paid, it would be very, very, very small because we put our hearts, souls and time into all of it. I 100% get that. And I think what you said is very real. So thank you for sharing that. And then you we mentioned that you have two twin boys and which by the way they're they're like the cutest ever. And I love when you bring them here and they're just they're so sweet. ⁓ my daughter loves them. What is something about becoming like a twin mom that absolutely nobody prepared you for? ⁓ that's a great question. I think a boy mom is because again, I had like my nieces, I would just always girl. I just I swore that I was having girls and I did not. But twins are a whole thing. Parts of it were very much harder by having two and parts of it were honestly kind of easier, especially in that like three year old stage where people were like their kid was begging them to play. Like, you know, for the twenty fifth time, like, Mom, I've made you an ice cream cone. It's like, Cool, what flavor is it? No. It's like they had each other. So it was like I wasn't being pestered for a bit, you know, but part of it's I think, yeah, I don't know. ⁓ all of it's hard. All of it's hard. I think like having two at different ages is hard, having one solo is hard, all of it's hard in different ways. But yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, for sure. And how do you feel like motherhood has changed the way that you view or even like defined success compared to, you know, before kids, after kids? No, yeah, that's a huge one. And especially again, I was a cre I was a solopreneur for a very long time. And I would give too much away. I would give my time away. Over nice, I was overperform I mean, and I just cause I thought it was nice, right? I didn't want to hurt anybody, I wanted to really like give about and it wasn't until after kids that I realized that like my time was valuable. I am valuable, my gifts are valuable, and like there was a monetary thing on that because I wanted to be with my boys, right? Like if I was giving too to other people, there wasn't enough to give to my family. And so it taught me boundaries in the best possible way. I think I'll come a better photographer for it. I'm a better business owner for it. I'm a better partner for it. It's like it's not good for anybody if you stretch yourself too thin. Like you have to put those boundaries in place so everybody, nobody can get all of you. And you gotta come to terms with that too. But yeah, like again, putting the the good, the good, healthy boundaries in place so you can be there for them when you're there. How did you overcome the awkward part of setting boundaries? Because I feel like as a retired, I I'm a I call myself a retired, well, two things, retired party girl, sometimes depends on the day. And then I call myself a retired ⁓ people pleaser because I feel like that version of me is so gone. And I do think it's because of, you know, having a baby. But how did you kind of overcome the awkwardness? Cause I I feel like once we set those boundaries and stuff, like as empowering and ⁓ you know, amazing as it is, there's that awkward phase, right? Where you almost turn around, like, ⁓ my god, no man, what I what I do, what I do. How did you overcome that feeling? I think it helps 'cause I'm still I feel the same. Well, one, I was late diagnosed ADHD and anxiety. So I got medicated, which was Helpful. Yeah. Some way the anxiety medicine helps. But and also I'm still over giving, right? I'm still over I'm still a people pleaser. I'm just not to the point where like it's Dutch. So I feel like it is always nice to and sometimes because some and I I do, I think the best of most people, right? So I don't think people are trying to take advantage when they're trying to take advantage some like when they take advantage sometimes. It's just so reminding them like I Did give you this percent, you know what I'm saying, or like per your contract or like, ⁓ yeah, just reminding you this is this much, but I will, I know I did it for this and I'm here showing up, or just no is sometimes I can't do that this day, but I can do it this day, or just giving options, the same the compliment sandwich situation. I know people say no is a complete sense. I have not learned that yet. I still overexplain, I still overgive, I still overdo, but I think again, it's what usually shuts it down is being like, yep, you signed up for this and you're getting that. So that's what you're doing. Like, no, I like You signed up for this amount of time and you're getting that amount of time. And you signed up for this, and that's what you're getting. Thanks. But I think that's like a really great solution because one of my friends, my coworkers, he told me one time, he goes, I'm he goes, I'm solution-based. And I feel like, okay, I might not, I mean, I don't like really have solutions all the time. But what I do have is, like you said, almost like an explanation where it feels like I'm validating, let's say, a customer or a person or whatever, right? And and letting them know like why. I I'm telling them something or why, you know, I'm trying to justify whatever I'm trying to say. And that ⁓ maybe my, you know, solution is giving them something or giving them another day. I'm making this up. Let's just say, ⁓ Friday doesn't work 3 p.m. But you know what? And it is such a simple thing, but maybe it helps. Like, you know, but how about Monday or Tuesday, 3 p.m.? You know, just kind of keeping that person knowing that I'm like listening to them, right? Respecting them, kind of like I'm exactly what you said. But being like, hey, this is what I'm giving you, or this is another option. So like I think they're written up the but I think they're written up front boundaries are big too. Where it's like my office hours are not or again, I you know what somebody put, especially in this business because people well and in photography, right? People I shoot on Saturday, so they think that they have access to me all the time. And that's not the case. But so ⁓ somebody one of the other I think has and I've been meaning to put it in my tagline, but be like, my office hours might look different than yours. Please allow me this much time to respond. Because sometimes they're like, Well, it's four o'clock on a Tuesday. And I'm Yeah, and I'm in with babies and I gotta go pick up my babies. And then so when I respond to you at six AM the next day, don't be but so that just that reminder, like, hey, my office hours might look different than yours and or be very firm about ⁓ I of I respond to emails from eight AM until this P like this PM and then they know what to expect. At least they're not, you know. And if they're upset about that, they call book. As of as it was stated down here, that's my office hours. And I return, you know. Sometimes hitting that or just having so you don't have to say at They just know what to expect right from the beginning. Hundred percent. And what's like one piece of guilt that you've intentionally let go as a mother? If you have. I don't know. That's a hard one for me. I think. I think I still hold a lot. And again, it's just it's trying to be there more, right? That's especially as they're this is the first time this last year is the first time when I wasn't there for all of it. ⁓ that hard. Every like even us that they're in this is the first time they've ever had to be in summer camp. All year. ⁓ that's right. And they're living their best life. They're just fine. But like I miss going to the pool on Tuesday, being able to take whatever on Thursday or just, you know, but ⁓ guess they're fine. They're living their best life. They to go to future vacation. And it's also helped us to really like maximum the time we do have. Yeah. I look at it that way all the time. I'm like, I know Gigi's got her activities or this or that, but I'm like, when we are together, like we're fully together. And like full transparency, I always say, like. we get to do the cool things because we've created such a flexible life. Like, you know, I know that like the hours I work, even like your business and everything, it's like these aren't like traditional hours, let's call that. Right. So I I know that we can, like you said, go to the pool at twelve PM on Tuesday or whatever if we wanted to, right. And we accommodated for that, whatever, do what you gotta do. But I just always felt like, okay, I hope my kid knows that she's lucky because I personally like I never grew up with that. Like I love my mom to death, but one thing she never did, and I'll just I'll never forget, is that she never went on a field trip for me. And I think about that. And I the reason that I think it bothers me a little bit is because I'm like, she kinda could have if she wanted to. But you know, I'm not gonna hold her to it. Like that was her choice, and I completely understand. But at the same time, I think at you know, this is also like what 20, 25 years ago, whatever, 30 years ago. And I look at it like, okay, like different times, you know, different mentality, especially around work, very traditional. like nine to five kind of setting or nine to four, whatever it was. And that's something that I told myself, if I have kids, I wanna be able to show up for them. And I think I'm a big like manifesting believer. I'm a big manifestor. So I feel like I've created that life where I I can show up in in ways, right, that I want to as a mom. And I feel like you r you definitely have. Yeah. And even I I even say that to like we've got, you know, a four year old at the space who sometimes has a hard time. like nap transitions or whatever, right? And it's that's when he gets really emotional. And so usually I can come in and hug him and but and he's like, I just want my mom. I'm like, and I understand, you know, but just pointing out like she's right out there, like right. And she's right there. I was like, and mommy's always come back, of course, but I was like, but she's doing her job. I was like, she's doing her job today. So you guys can have so much fun together on Saturday. It's like, and Miss Abby's job is to be here with you and give you hugs when you're sad and help you p you know take a nice nap. Cause then When you wake up, your job is to play and get really smart so you can show mom what her job is next. You know, so it's like everybody's got their jobs and it's like she's right out there and you can see that she's working and then she can be with you on the weekend. So even trying to remind our youngest of that, like in the space is good. ⁓ absolutely. I know, I love it. And I I feel like we are very lucky to have you as our as our angel of being able to get to like, you know, not even just like tell our kids that, but to really like be there. I would say like in our place for that moment, you know what I mean? Like to be to be that like loving figure. I don't know how to describe it, but to me I think that means everything. And I think a lot of moms and parents would absolutely agree to that. Also I love it. So I kinda wanna dive into your family life as well. And you know, you and your wife, you built a business and a family together. So I'm curious of how do you sort of divide the responsibilities in a way that works for both of you. And one that we are still figuring out. ⁓ 'cause again, especially when I was Little, you know, my wife has always had kind of a traditional nine to five ish. She's in retail. And so when we first got together, it wasn't so much nine to five. She still worked weekends a lot. But anyway, since the boys, it's been pretty much nine to five. But either way, she was, you know, in more of a traditional role. And I was again a creative professional. So it was always that I was gonna, you I we had to budget. This is the thing about being a small business owner. There's no help, you what I'm saying? There's no like maternity leave for me. I just have to budget for so many months to take off without my salary. And then coming back, like that was hard. So I came back part-time. And like that was not what what the plan was, but I came back part-time. But so it was easier for me to take on a lot more of the household responsibilities because that was my contribution. Now opening Lay Lay Village has been a full time, full time. And so we're kind of renegotiating a lot of those a lot of those things. And there has to be some communication around there for sure. I know there's a book called Fair Play, which my lovely Friend Jessfeld has recommended and I have not gone through, but I know it's there and I know it's but she also recommends she does like ⁓ her and her husband do a a lunch once a month to like catch up stuff. So it's like it's not date night, there's no booze. It's like, but it's like a lunch where you can sit down and this is all we're talking about. The schedule and the whatever and the ours has been happening more as we're out the door or in the door. But again, with the craziness of Lay Village and my wife's Business, we've had to have more very intentional conversations around it because it kind of started organically on ⁓ roles and things like that. But then we've had to be a little more intentional about it. It also I think helps that I was on I worked on the weekends because it was never like ⁓ she doesn't know how to like change a diaper or what my boy's like, right? I think being a two-month family, she was very conscious and maybe scared that she wouldn't be seen as much of a mom because she wasn't home with them every single day and or because she wasn't the bio parent. But my voice look more like her than me, whatever. So she didn't carry, but she is a thousand and ten percent just as much as a mom and I. And it was important when I worked and when I was shooting on Saturdays, she had that day. So, you know, she did the nap, she did the lunch. She it was never like ⁓ what do I do here? It's no. If I had to leave, I just picked up and left. I didn't have like prep her. So she was always a very present parent. And so I think we were all we were always very conscious about that too. I love it. ⁓ no, that's incredible. And You know, I kinda wanted to dive into that as well because I know that ⁓ you and I were talking about this, but you know, what was was there like anything about building your family that was different from what people might assume, right? Or or in honestly, too, is there anything that you wish that more people understood about same sex parents from your perspective? Not I mean, I don't again, I can only say from my perspective, which is we're definitely, you know, we're of the old we're a little older and you know, both very much identify as lesbians. And it was a different world seven years ago when we or I guess eight or nine when we started this journey than it is now. I might have made different choices, knowing different things. I it's amazing how fast some of these things have progressed. But to us, yeah, it was like it was kind of a natural decision on who would carry only because of age and Factors, you know, it it was a weird, I guess the biggest thing there's no oops, right? There's no just like oops, okay. Like everything was very intentional. And I don't think I was ready for that. But it was just like, okay, well, we're I think we're ready to do this. Let's make the call. And then we made the call and then was like, ⁓ they have to come in for tests. So we're just gonna go in for the test. And then it was the next thing, and then it was the next thing. But ⁓ so it didn't seem as like daunting because we'd be like, ⁓ we're gonna have a baby next year is very daunting. And then yeah, but I think I feel like as women in general, kind of that process. Mm-hmm. I just like, what did we learn in school? I don't know. Like I didn't go on the same day. I'm like, what was this for? What was I thinking? I was like, ⁓ that's how our bodies work. ⁓ now it's just bizarre. And it's like, okay, but I did feel kind of lonely in that too, because I had to go to the you Alexis was working, I had to go to the doctor's appointment. So I feel like I so I guess I would say that more than like a two mom journey, but the fertility journey can be very lonely and Seem a little bit technical. She was there whenever she could be. And again, was for but it's all this to say. I'm kind of rambling now. But no, no. I I think this is really, really insightful because I honestly didn't ever think of that part. I I really didn't. Like I have pa ⁓ I have friends who like are also two moms, but I never considered what she went through and like the isolating part of it. And I don't know if that's Because like ⁓ maybe like you said, like work schedules, life, right? Things were happening. Or is that just how we as society think of it as like, okay, heterosexual couples, right? Woman's gonna carry, you know, mom goes to appointments, dad's always present in the picture and and and honestly, I'm not gonna lie, I went to a lot of appointments on myself too, because my husband's I was gonna say, I think it's more of a birthing parent journey than than a two-mom thing. I just think we don't talk and I mean again, now this whole talk about perimenopause and all We just didn't talk about fertility. I'm Paulina Rowe, radio host, T V contributor, writer and mom of one this is where ambitious moms come to keep their identity intact while navigating. Here we talk about the relationships, identity, and everything that gets messy in between. You won't find sugar coping or cliche. ⁓ To remind you, you can be ambitious, you can take up space, and you can thrive in motherhood and in everything else that makes sense. Before we get into the episode, make sure you're following the mommy collective on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram. And share this podcast with mommy and ⁓ your life. Or just a reminder that she's killing it. Also, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter and leave us a review so we can keep showing up and reach every ambitious mom out there and do big things. Let's get into it. No, and I appreciate you sharing this truly. Like I think. These conversations are so important, which kind of leads me to my next one. As somebody who will works in ⁓ early childhood education, right? Literally whole life structured around it, right? Has two sons of you know her own, and then you know, you're married as well to a woman. So how, if you don't mind me asking, how can we, as parents, as society, right, as just human beings, how can we do better with our children? Like, for example, my daughter's godfather is my best friend, and he's he's a gay man and his partner, his name is Patrick. My daughter is obsessed with Patrick. Okay. And Patrick is like, you know, the boyfriend of her godfather. And I feel like they're gonna get married one day. I have my own I have my own thing in my head. I got my own wedding bells. It's all it's all happening. They are perfect for each other. And I even see how my daughter's just so attached to both of them, but specifically to Patrick, right? My my best friend's boyfriend. And you know, I do think about that as she's growing and stuff, like, you know, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna be naive. She's going to ask one day, right? Cause she just is like That's just life. But sometimes I'm like, well, how do I answer that? And I feel like I know what to say, but I also I don't want to bullshit my kid, you know? And I wanna be I wanna just kind of, you know, be be straight up with her, L O L. But I wanna just be like, you know, just I I wanna be able to really just ⁓ be honest, right? But also age appropriate in the terms of like, okay, she's three, she's four, she's five. She's just keep growing. And I'm like, so how do I explain that? Right. Cause I feel like I'm not I'm not gonna lie, I'm not ready for any talks with my kid yet. Any, like just around the Clog, but I understand, like, you I'm raising a girl and I'm like, one day we're gonna have like the period talk, the sex talk, all the talks, right? I'm not ready for any of them. I know we're still far from it, but I'm not ready. ⁓ but eventually, too, and another transparent thing I'm gonna say, and a very ⁓ vulnerable thing, is like we're gonna have to have the body part talk soon because she's understanding that. So I feel like I'm entering that space, Abby. I'm entering all the spaces now, right? As a mom. So how can we talk to our kids when it comes to same-sex couples? I think. Every kid is different. But I think exactly like you said, like age appropriate answers, like, yeah, don't bullshit like answer the question. But this is I did hear this from somebody that was like, Don't answer more than is asked. Like, don't answer more than is asked. Like that's how It's hard for though, because we're yappers. Right. Yeah. But like that's how you keep it age appropriate, honestly. It's like, ⁓ who's Patrick? ⁓ you're like, can two boys get married? Yep. That's all you gotta say. Like, yeah, two boys can get married. Just like I kind of love it. I kinda all you gotta say. Cause like a three or two or three, that's all she needs to know. Nobody, no three year old needs to know what sex is or whatever. You know, and I'm the same way, it's like all of that. We were lucky enough to introduce. I mean, and we do, we do it here at Lay Village too, right? It's not just about the same sex thing, but it's also different religions and different things. These are presented as just like what happens in the world. It's not a this is better than the other, or this is the b it's like, so we talk about Easter, right? Or I mean, obviously it's not like Jesus died on the cross, but it's like Easter bunny and this is how you know people celebrate with eggs or whatever. But it's also like Diwali and, you know, Ramadan and like these are the traditions that people who celebrate Ramadan will do. Like all of it. Like the festival of life all of these things. And we'll, you know, this month where we like especially next week, we'll start reading like and kind of there's a definitely some staples in all the books, but like things like we're all different, we're the same, right? It's like talks about like we all have eyes, like my eyes look different than your eyes, but you know, our s we all have skin. My skin looks different than yours, but It still feels and it still touches and it's still so all of these things just to say age appropriate. I mean, again, I have two little science weirdos who've always been into science. So they knew about, you know, their donor and sperm and eggs from the time they were like two and a half because they were interested in that and there's books about that. And it was just very science to them. They still don't know what sex is or how that's involved, but it might be easier because a doctor put you in my tummy and a doctor took you out of my tummy. So that's easier to say than some of the ⁓ but they won't know. So we told them. But yeah, like I said, I think it depends on the kid, depends on the parent, and don't answer more than is asked. Just be open. Yeah. No judgment in it. Just this is the way the world works. I love it. And I know maybe this is like the Lulu of me, but sometimes I'm just like, I hope that she doesn't have to ask because it's so normalized in her eyes. Like that's one of my goals, especially like with her godfather, who's my best friend. I I mean she's a r I'm not even being funny. She's around him. We call him We talk on the phone all day. He actually called during this podcast interview. So we talk all day. But ⁓ we see them like maybe four times a week because we all live like five minutes from each other. And I she's just around them both so much that I'm just like, maybe there won't even be a question like that, you know? And and I don't know yet because we haven't gotten there. But I'm like, I hope that her and and her friend, just the world society, I just hope that it just becomes so normal that there aren't even questions of that. Of like, ⁓ yeah, like, you know, Patrick and and Jonathan are they're getting married. And it's just okay. You know what I mean? I for sure do. Yeah. And I think again, I have lived in Chicago for so long and been in pretty progressive circles. I mean, I didn't grow up that way. And I grew up in a very conservative and Catholic family, but they've adjusted with me in the last twenty five years, you know, my guys. So but I do forget sometimes that there is sort of that all I can do is make a world where my kids are we knew and were aware that possibly one day they'd get made fun of for having two moms, but it's always gonna be something, right? It could be. Whatever else. And so I just think like as kids, the old way of like, ⁓ we don't see it, don't talk about it, don't look at it. Everybody's the same. It's like, ⁓ no, talk about it. Ask about it. Like, ⁓ you have two moms? Cool. And I've heard my kids say, like, I've literally overheard it. Because kids try to put things in boxes, right? That that's how they understand the world. And I've heard a kid be like, ⁓ your dad. And he was like, No, I don't have two dads. I have two I was like, I don't have a dad, I have two moms. And the kid was like, ⁓ that sucks. He's No, I'm really lucky. He's like, I really love and he's I was really lucky to have two moms. But I'm sure sometimes he will think it sucks because he doesn't have a dad. And that is okay. That is a feeling to validate, but we do try to give like other like amazing male role models in his life. And again, some people don't have a dad because they left or they died or so you know, some people don't have a mom, some people for cigarettes and never came back. That's what I think. Right, exactly. So it's like trauma, I'm working through it. I mean I mean, and so it's like this is They have two parents who are present and love them. And all you can do is give them the equipment when somebody asks and the safe space to come back and like be there for them. And I'm trying to teach them when they see differences, it's okay to call it out, be like, ⁓ why does that kid walk different? I don't know. You can ask them. Right. Like, what are those? Like you don't shy away, you don't point, you don't stare, you say, why are like why are you wearing braces? ⁓ okay. And it's not, it's different. It's not bad or worse. It's just different. Everybody's world is different. Did you start bawling your eyes out when you overheard your son say that about yours? I I just started crying. That's why I'm kidding. I was like, I was like, actually now that I'm thinking about it, I'm starting to tear up. I don't think I had time. And unfortunately, like thinking about it, I wasn't I was proud, right? But I was also like, ⁓ like that's that's what you were. You just don't want ever to like hurt your kid and the thing. But again, I know the logical side of me knows it's not hard. He's got two very present and loving parents. It's not hurtful to n and he's got wonderful male figures in his life and a twin brother who he's They they're obsessed with, so they're the biggest dudes in the world. Sometimes I was like, sometimes they want to wear a dress, and that's cool too. But like but otherwise, that they're there's a lot of dude talk in our house too. So yeah. They are so lucky to have you both, and I I think that's so amazing. ⁓ I saw the new Toy Story yesterday, and I loved the movie, but I felt, and this all I'm gonna relate this back to our combo, I promise. But I felt like besides the whole like technology iPad conversation, which like itself is a whole thing, and I understand. I got more triggered and like my theme that I saw from that was the bullying, right? And like bullying and like, you know, having access to devices where like obviously like that's how it's happening a lot more today with kids. And the reason that I bring this up is because my husband and I were talking about that and y I think you nailed it and you're like, there's always gonna be something, right? 'Cause like some kids ki can be brutal, right? And I I hate that. I'm a big advocate of loving on your kids so they don't gotta be hating on on other people. And I felt like, okay, what am I gonna do one day when my kid experiences that, right? 'Cause I I'm insane. I'm truly insane, Abby. So like I'm like, what do I do? And you know, I think one of the biggest things is like, and and I think you've done this, which is why I'm telling you this story, is is is raising your kid to be confident in themselves, right? In their family, just in in their in their in truly themselves in their worlds. And I feel like your son is for just his response towards that of being like, no, it's it's friggin' awesome, right? Like to have this experience, to have these two amazing moms. And I felt like that conversation could have went different had he not maybe felt you know super supported, super loved, super confident. And I'm such a big believer of that. So you you are clearly doing what you're supposed to be doing as a kick ass mom because that response from your son just solidified that. Thank you. Thank you. That actually Very wonderful 'Cause yeah, I like, and we've had the conversation several times about like, well, what would you say if somebody said this to you? Or like not not specific thing, but it's like, what did you say if somebody said they hate your shirt? Like you can say, Well, I like my shirt and that's all that matters. Like, you know, like that's cool. You know, whatever. So it's like or really think about it. Do you like your shirt? I don't know. You don't have to like something just because mommy picked it out or just because your friend likes it. Like what do you really like and stand behind that? Cool, right? Like awesome. The leadership mentality. We were talking about that. My husband and I were like, we don't want our kids to like Or like be that. You know, I want my kid to truly think for herself. Like, I don't know, maybe it's my own issues or like my own trauma and just like upbringing. But I'm like, I want my kid to truly like I want her to be a good person. That's how I know I'm gonna mean I'm I'm a good mom. I did a good job. I just want my kid to truly be like a good freaking person. That's it. And know themselves. And like again, like I just feel like I it wasn't until I was in my thirties or forties that I started even exploring like what do I want? Like I was always so nice to everybody else and my whole goal was to like make everybody else comfortable. But it's like, well, what do I really want? Like, did I want to do that? Like what do I like? And getting back to that, right? Like rather than like putting things that I like on the back burner because I was supposed to do something else. And it's like, no. I got it's like don't don't wait until you're 30 to do that or 40 to do that. Find it figure it out now. Have fun. That's amazing advice. I couldn't agree more. Before we wrap up, I kind of want to end on the note of your family, right? And your boys especially, but What do you hope that your twins like learn by watching the relationship between you and your wife? That is a great question. I hope I get a lot of kindness. Well, Alexis and I are both very polite people. And I say that in the good way of that. Like sometimes it can be the bad way too, but in the like we say thank you to each other. Like for like thanks for cooking dinner today, Alexis. Like, you know, it's like thanks for getting that from me, mom. And I really, really believe, and again, my kids are probably just as, you know, neurodivision as I am. ⁓ so just seeing like us hold open a door for somebody, not even each like for each other. Like we hold the door open for each other. Or like, here, let me grab that for you. Or can I get you something from the store? I would hope that they learn that those are acts of love and how you should be treated and how you should treat others that you love. Right. It's like not about putting somebody down to like show you like them. It's like if you like you know, it's it's That as I the the way you respect somebody and you should be respected. And if somebody's not doing that for you. Abby, thank you so much for joining us today. I appreciate you being here. Where can we follow you on social? Where can we check out Lay Village? Your photography for taking, you know, clients, where should we do that? Great. ⁓ yeah. So photography is Abby Lauren Photography dot com, Instagram and Facebook. Been very quiet over the last year, but I am gonna start taking clients again end of summer, beginning of fall, probably just limited basis. And then Lay Village Cowork. ⁓ again, Danny's franchising. If you are if this is a concept that again you're a new mom but thinking like I could maybe she's franchising, so Lay Village Cowork dot com and then or our location in the western suburbs. It's ⁓ Lay Village Co Work, Old Route 66. ⁓ but we also have locations in Des Plains, a dedicated pre K in Old Irving, and then one in Irving Park, Lakeview, and Milwaukee. Love it. I love it. Abby, thank you so much for being here with us today. We appreciate you. Thank you so much. This is wonderful. Thank you.