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A Brutally Honest Debate Recap · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm TV Torn.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: What a debate, fellas.
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: Woo!
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Woo!
• 0:28
  Speaker 5: Love it.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: My first question is for you. You came back from
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Fiji way too soon. If you would only stayed a
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: couple more weeks.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Put me back in.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Put me back in.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Take away my phone. Leave me out of this.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: So we all, just like many of you, endured the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: 90-minute debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. I think
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: you're hearing this in the morning, so you probably remember it.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe you're fortunate and you don't. But just in case
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: we're going to refresh your memory, here's a clip of
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 1:02
  Speaker 5: We're at a state where in six weeks, you don't
• 1:05
  Speaker 5: even know whether you're pregnant or not, but you cannot
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: see a doctor and have him decide on what your
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: circumstances are, whether you need help. Look, there's so many
• 1:15
  Speaker 5: young women who have been, including a young woman who
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: just was murdered. And he went to the funeral. The
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: idea that she was murdered by an immigrant coming in.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: They talk about that.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: If he wins this election, our country doesn't have a chance,
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: not even a chance. of coming out of this rut,
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: we probably won't have a country left anymore. That's how
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: bad it is. He is the worst in history by far.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: President Trump, the question was about what would you do
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: to make childcare more affordable?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: He can't hit a ball 50 yards.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: He challenged me to a golf match.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: He can't hit a ball 50 yards.
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: I'd be happy to have a driving contest with him.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: The reason I got my handicap, which when I was
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: vice president, down to a six. I told you before,
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: I'm happy to play golf if you carry your own bag.
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: Think you can do it?
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: That's the biggest lie that he's a six handicap of all.
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: I was an eight handicap. I really don't know what
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: he said at the end of that sentence. I don't
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: think he knows what he said either.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, that was the debate. Look, we always want to
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: be honest with you guys. I don't think we need to,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: you don't listen to us for us to sugarcoat anything.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I think it was a fucking disaster. I think it
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: was like maybe the worst debate I've ever seen in
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: my entire life. Donald Trump is a threat to democracy.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is a just a despicable human being. He
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: should not be president. We have to do literally everything
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: we possibly can to make sure he is not president again.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: And that is why last night was so fucking awful
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: because Joe Biden just in every single way failed at
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: that debate. And like, I don't know what else to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: say there, except that that, and then, you know, I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: won't make any other predictions now, but it was, it
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: was a disaster. Yeah.
• 2:58
  Speaker 6: I mean, look, Debates are a performance and what you
• 3:01
  Speaker 6: say and how you say it both matter. And so
• 3:04
  Speaker 6: the optics to start there were very bad tonight. Biden
• 3:07
  Speaker 6: had to answer concerns about his age. I think he
• 3:10
  Speaker 6: exacerbated them. His voice sounded frail. There was an answer
• 3:13
  Speaker 6: where he kind of stalled out halfway through. The cut
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: shots when Trump was speaking were not kind to Biden.
• 3:19
  Speaker 6: In the first debate in 2020, he did a very
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: good job of kind of smiling or like taking notes.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I counted. I think he smiled. twice or three times
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: in 90 minutes?
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, this time he looked confused at times.
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: He was looking away. And those clips are already flying
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: around TikTok. Like, that's the online spin war that's happening
• 3:33
  Speaker 6: as we speak.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: No deceptive editing necessary.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not much of a war.
• 3:36
  Speaker 6: I mean, and in the substance, I just, I don't
• 3:38
  Speaker 6: think Biden landed the hits he needed to land. We
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: just heard him, he needed to prosecute the case against
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: Trump on abortion. There we heard a clip where he
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: sort of took an abortion answer and wound up at
• 3:47
  Speaker 6: a point about immigration. I don't think he made a
• 3:50
  Speaker 6: strong economic argument. The attacks on Trump's felony convictions weren't strong.
• 3:54
  Speaker 6: That's not to say that Trump was great. I don't
• 3:56
  Speaker 6: think he was. He ducked questions. The mean, angry Trump
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: came out at times. But I came into this debate
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: anxious about Biden's performance and focused on Biden's performance. And
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: I felt like the first 15 to 20 minutes were
• 4:08
  Speaker 6: the worst part of the debate for Biden. And that's
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: probably all that some people watched. And so I think
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: we're all angry and frustrated to be in this position.
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: Joe Biden- He's done a great job as president. He
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: has better policies. He has a better team. But his
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: job is to communicate those ideas and then make a
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: contrast with Trump and what he would do. And he
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: failed at that. And his other job was to put
• 4:30
  Speaker 6: to rest concerns about his age. And I think they
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: were made worse. So this debate was a really important
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: moment in this campaign. And it didn't go well. And
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: I'm also worried that there might not be another debate.
• 4:42
  Speaker 6: Because if you're Trump, you might be thinking, why not
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: just leave it at that?
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, Biden was not forced to do this debate.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: He wanted this debate on this timeline. This is something
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: his campaign swerved out of their lane, broke with all
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: precedent in modern political history to seek out a debate
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: outside of the debate commission process in June. And I
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: agreed with that strategy at the time because it was
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: an acknowledgement that this race was profiling in a way
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: that would likely lead to Joe Biden losing. He was
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: behind in the polls. It was functioning really as a
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: referendum on Joe Biden. Voters were not focused enough on
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump. They were concerned about his age. And they
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: believe the best way to address that was to get
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: on a stage in front of a nationally televised audience
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: and assuage those concerns. And he did not do that.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: As Tommy said, he exacerbated that.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: In fact, he did the opposite.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: He did the exact opposite of that. And like you said,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: it is painful to say this because we adore Joe
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Biden as a person.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: He's a fundamentally decent, wonderful human being, and he has accomplished...
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: a fuck of a lot as president that he should
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: be proud of and we should be proud of.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: And he has done a good job as president. And
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: I believe that tonight's performance is not a reflection of
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: the kind of president that he is. But it is
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: a very concerning piece of evidence about the kind of
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: candidate he will be in this race. Because you need
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: to ultimately be able to defend your record and make
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: the case against Donald Trump. And there has never in
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: the history of politics been an easier candidate to make
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: a case against than Donald Trump. Donald Trump gave him
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: ample opportunities to do so. If Joe Biden had given
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: a B-minus performance tonight, we'd be talking about Donald Trump.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: He lied. He made very little sense. He didn't answer
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: any question.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: He became much more incoherent as the debate went on.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump did, for sure.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: And this was... Maybe we'll have another debate. Maybe we won't.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: But this was Joe Biden's best and biggest opportunity to
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: address the single biggest concern about his candidacy. And he
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: did not deliver on that tonight. And that is deeply disappointing.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's... At first it was shocking, then it was scary,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: then it was sad, and by the end it was absurd.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I'm also, by the way, I'm not really buying this
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: spin that the first 20 minutes were terrible and then
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: he got somehow much better. That was not my experience
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: in watching this debate. I think part of what makes
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: this so sad is A, we understand the stakes. B,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: we view Donald Trump as an eminently beatable figure. And C,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: we believe Joe Biden to be an excellent president. I
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: believe that. I believe Joe Biden ran because he loves
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: this country And he believed his case against Trump was
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: the best. He was right about that. I believe he
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: was an extraordinary president and played the hands better than
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: anybody else could have played it. But the most important
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: job Joe Biden has as president of the United States
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: is to beat Donald Trump. And unfortunately, he went into
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: this debate, he was behind. His job was to overcome
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: that dynamic and changed it. He emphasized it. And for
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: the same reason, sense of decency and empathy and patriotism
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: that led Joe Biden to run, I believe this is
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a moment to at least have a big open conversation
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: about whether the best thing he can do for America
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: to end his presidency as the success it deserves to
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: be is whether or not he should step aside. And
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: already I know, like, because the stakes are so high,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: you see people afraid to have that conversation and fine.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: But what I don't appreciate is people immediately saying, well,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: we know Joe Biden won't step aside. We know Joe
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Biden won't do this. We know Joe Biden won't do that.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know what Joe Biden's going to do. Nobody
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: knows what Joe Biden's going to do. Joe Biden was
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: still on stage while some people were saying that they
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: know Joe Biden is not going to step aside. I
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: believe Joe Biden loves this country and wants what's best
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: for it. And so there's a lot of messy, complicated,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: confusing unknowns ahead of us. But the first, I think
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: the first step is let's have the debate about which
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: path is riskiest. Is the riskiest path Sticking with Joe
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Biden or is the riskiest path saying we want someone else?
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: And anybody who says that that is not a tough
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: call right now is full of fucking shit.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to get to that in a bit. We're
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: obviously not the only ones who are thinking this. And
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that's not just because there's like Democrats privately freaking out
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: that that's happening. Most everyone I know in my life
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: is also freaking out. So that's also happening. But just
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: to give you an example, as soon as the debate
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: was over, this is what we heard from CNN's John King.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Let's listen.
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: Anderson, this was a game changing debate in the sense
• 8:58
  Speaker 7: that right now, as we speak, there is a deep,
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: a wide and a very aggressive panic in the Democratic Party.
• 9:05
  Speaker 7: It started minutes into the debate and it continues right now.
• 9:08
  Speaker 7: It involves party strategists. It involves elected officials. It involves fundraisers.
• 9:13
  Speaker 7: And they're having conversations about the president's performance, which they
• 9:16
  Speaker 7: think was dismal, which they think will hurt other people
• 9:19
  Speaker 7: down the party in the ticket. And they're having conversations
• 9:21
  Speaker 7: about what they should do about it. Some of those
• 9:23
  Speaker 7: conversations include, should we go to the White House and
• 9:26
  Speaker 7: ask the president to step aside? Others are other of
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: the conversations are about should prominent Democrats go public with
• 9:32
  Speaker 7: that call?
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So that was John King. So then we heard from
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: all sorts of Democrats. Kate Bedingfeld, former White House communications director,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: said that it was a bad performance. We heard from
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: multiple other Democrats who said that there's members of Congress.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're recording this at midnight. So by the
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: time you hear this, there's probably other Democrats that have
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: said this too but members of congress are you know
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: giving blind quotes so far so that the panic is
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: real it's happening i almost feel like it is underselling
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: it or or minimizing it to call it panicking or
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: like bedwetting look if this was september or october we
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: would be honest that this is a this was a
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: horrible debate but say like look it's too late the
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: election is in a We should vote for Joe Biden
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and we should do everything we can to make sure
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: that Donald Trump doesn't win and make Joe Biden another president.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: But what Joe Biden did was agree to this debate,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: propose this debate and agree to this debate with seven
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: weeks left to the convention. And as you said, Lovett,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: like we now, it would be silly not to have
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: this conversation. And that's not to say that a contested
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: convention would be easy or necessarily nominate someone who can
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: beat Donald Trump. That is the reality of the situation
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: we're in right now. But I think like, and look,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: it's up to Joe Biden, right? Joe Biden's going to
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: make the decision. The people around him are going to
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: counsel him on this decision. But like, I think that
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: everyone else who saw what we all saw last night
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: needs to be honest that like, it's not just that, look,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: we've talked about debates before. Debates are performances. Debates are silly.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: They get scored. Barack Obama had a terrible first debate
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: against Mitt Romney, right? And then he went out there
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and he fixed it, right? The terrible debate that Barack
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Obama had against Mitt Romney was nothing like this. This
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: is just another level, right? Like I said, I've never
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: seen any political, can you guys think of a political
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: debate that was as bad as this?
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: No, the previous worst debate that any of us have
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: ever seen was the first presidential debate last time. And
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: the difference between that debate and this debate, and I
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: think part of the reason this debate feels worse, is
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that was a despicable display. But we didn't come away
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: thinking that the race had suddenly tilted against Joe Biden.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: This was a horrible debate to watch.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I think Joe Biden won that debate. Right. Clearly.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Everybody walked away saying that was the worst debate they'd
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: ever seen.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I hate politics. Right.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I think people had the exact same reaction to this.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Nobody came away from this loving politics.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Or loving Donald Trump, by the way.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Or loving Donald Trump.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Let me be clear. I don't think Donald Trump picked up.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And no one was like, oh, you know what? Donald
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Trump has assuaged my concerns about him not being a
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: fucking lunatic. I don't think that happened. But I think
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: people were fucking... I mean, it's not just that Joe
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Biden needed to make the case against Donald Trump in
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a debate. Donald Trump is a threat to democracy right now.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: And we need leaders and we need a president to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: actually make the case for why Donald Trump is as
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: unfit for office as we all know. He did not
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: bring up, like, he didn't make a case against January 6th.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: He didn't talk about the fact that he tried to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: overturn the last election. He didn't talk about the fact
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that he is facing 88 felony counts. He said the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: words convicted felon once. Then he started talking about having
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: sex with the porn star.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Alley cats.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Alley cats, right? He didn't bring up, like, almost any
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's vulnerabilities in a coherent way.
• 12:57
  Speaker 6: Let's talk about Trump's performance for a minute. I mean,
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: Trump lied constantly. He lied about his position on abortion.
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: He lied about COVID. He lied about January 6th. He
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: blamed Pelosi for the insurrection. The problem was the moderators
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: had told everyone, we're not here to fact check. And
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: it was Joe Biden's job to effectively call him out
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: for what he was getting wrong and then make the
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: case against him. And he just failed to do it.
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: And look, I don't think Trump was good, but to
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: his credit, he was relentlessly on message. Everything came back
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: to illegal immigration. He made almost every question about the
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: border because he knew That was his strength and that
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: was Joe Biden's weakness. And there was no equivalent effort
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: to get on a message that had Trump on his
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: back heels from the Biden side. It was frankly just
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: kind of hard to follow answer after hard to follow answer.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: I am open to the idea that like we are
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: freaks who watch this in a way that is different
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: from the way maybe undecided voters would watch it, right?
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: There was... dials that came out throughout saying people dislike
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: them both. Like I'm open to, I.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Can see that completely.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And I, by the way, I'm also open to the
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: possibility that this debate doesn't have a severe impact that
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the actual impact of it won't be as long lasting.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm extremely open to the possibility that Joe Biden
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: can come back with us. But I think John, what
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: you're getting at here is I think the reason this
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: felt so dispiriting and so important is because the way
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: in which he lost this debate at a time when
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: he needed to change the dynamic was makes us very,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: very concerned that he cannot change the dynamic in any
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: other setting, that he is not the person to make
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: this argument for himself or against Donald Trump.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: And again, so we watched the debate end and then
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden appeared at a watch party and He was
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: much more energetic at the watch party. He was much
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: more coherent, though even there, because everyone was like, well,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: where was that Joe Biden? Yeah, energy-wise, coherence-wise, for sure.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: But his message was like, he started talking about the
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: dog-faced lying pony soldier.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: It was not good.
• 15:15
  Speaker 6: Everyone's grading on such a curve. It was just a
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: weird one-minute speech. It was a weird, yeah, exactly.
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: You know?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And so I don't, like, I just feel like we're
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: now all, yeah, we're now all like grading on a curve.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Everything's relative, but it's like, hello, we all, we all
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: saw this, right?
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the one that you can't, I'm not going
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: to be convinced that I did. Don't tell me my
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: eyes are lying. Like I saw what I saw.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Like a handful of things can be true at the
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: same time, right? That Joe Biden's performance was very bad
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: at a very bad time. That if you were, it's
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: also true that if you were to show swing voters
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: who did not watch the debate, only footage of Donald
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Trump speaking. they would be very unhappy with Donald Trump.
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: Oh, for sure.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: And I would be shocked if they weren't. Yeah.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, he did nothing to improve his standing in
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: the race. All he did was just be better than
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden, right? And I would say what Trump did
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: do for all of his bad, unpopular policy positions, refusal
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: to answer questions, his repeated lies is he was more
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: restrained than he was in 2020. And so you could
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: watch that and not come away with the idea that
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: he is like, that's what Biden wanted. What strategically he
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: should have done is try to, when Trump got mad,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: was when Biden went after him on January 6th early.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: And if he had done that earlier and sort of
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: gotten Trump off his game, Biden couldn't do that. The
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: bigger thing here is Biden is behind in this race.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: We can debate by how much, but Trump has an
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: advantage in the swing states and maybe all six of
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: them right now. And so how do you change the
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: dynamic in a race? You either change the dynamic in
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: a race by taking advantage of huge, high leverage moments
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: with lots of eyeballs on you and delivering in a
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: big way. Biden did not do that. And there may
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: not be another moment like that because a convention speech
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: is not a moment like that.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: No, because Trump gets a convention speech. Biden gets a
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: convention speech. They're planned.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: They're mostly watched by partisans. And the other way you
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: do it is by waking up every single day, dominating
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: the media conversation and making a compelling, relentless argument for
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: yourself and against the other person. Joe Biden has not
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: done that in this presidency at any point.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: And look, if suddenly he wakes up tomorrow and can
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: do that for the next several months, then so happy.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: You were doing multiple rallies a day. You were doing
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: every single possible media hit you can do. You're going
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: into unfriendly territory to do things that go viral, right?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: It's like Trump was on, I don't know which Paul,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Logan Paul, Jake Paul's podcast. And then either Jake or
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Logan or whoever challenged Biden to do it. Like, yeah,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: a different candidate could go do that and just take
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: him on and get in his face and have a
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: viral moment and show your strength. Whether Biden's staff are
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: treating him with kid gloves or maybe because of tonight
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: they think he can't do those things, he is not
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: doing that. So the question is, how is he going
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: to change the dynamic in the race going forward if
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: tonight happened and we may not get another debate?
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: There was one question and answer that I thought was
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: kind of damaging for Trump, and I wondered if.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: You guys agreed.
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: He was asked, what do you say to voters who
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: think you violated your oath on January 6th? And Trump said,
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: on January 6th, we had a great border. On January 6th,
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: we were energy independent. On January 6th, we had the
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: lowest taxes, the lowest regulations. We were respected around the world.
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: Then he went into a pivot.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I wonder... I don't know.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Rhetorically, it was clever, but I wonder if you were like,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: what are you talking about?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: That was my reaction. I thought it was bizarre. Yeah,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: it was bizarre. Because it seemed like something that they
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: had planned. And I was like, that is not... That
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: cannot be effective. Clever was the wrong.
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: It was a rhetorical-only answer that never touched the substance.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But again, it's like giving.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Like a, like a, what do you call those things?
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: A fidget, fidget spinner, fidget spinner to a kid where
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: it's just like, here's something he will say that will
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: not likely not damage him more than what he would
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: say on his own.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: But then this is the problem, right? Because there's Joe
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Biden standing there and he's not live or, or, or
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: fast or, or. direct enough to be able to counterpunch
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: in any of these moments.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: He tried there.
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: He said, he tried to get him to say, well,
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: you denounced the Proud Boys.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: You told them to stand by.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Well, you denounced the insurrections.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: But he just couldn't get it out. He couldn't get
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: it out.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Everyone ignored it.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And by the way, I just, I also want to say,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I'm really not up for a debate about CNN and
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: their role in this. If you watched that debate and
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: you came away thinking the problem was CNN, go for
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: a walk outside. That is ridiculous.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: So speaking of CNN, so the first debate in 2020,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: the CNN post-debate poll, Joe Biden- 60% of voters thought
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden won. 28% thought Donald Trump won. Tonight, the
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: poll just came out. 67% of voters think Donald Trump won.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Only 33% think that Joe Biden won. It's a big swing.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: It's a 66-point swing towards Trump. There was also a
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Frank Luntz's focus group of all undecided voters who, again,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Luntz was tweeting this through the debate at times were saying, oh,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: they're mad at both of them. They don't like that
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Trump's being so personal. A tiny bit of purchase on
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: which to have hope. And then at the end, they're
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: all undecided voters and all of them think that Joe
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Biden should step aside. There was a there was a
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: focus group on MSNBC just before we started. One of
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the voters said, I love Joe Biden's policies. I think
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump's despicable, but Joe Biden can't execute. We should
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: have an open convention.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I love that moment with that. There was a despondency
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: with that person because what you got was how much
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: they disliked Donald Trump and understand already that Donald Trump
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't fight for them, doesn't care about them, isn't out
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: for them, but they see Joe Biden, even though they
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: want to be for Joe Biden. What they saw made
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: them really really concerned. And this is what voters have
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: been saying. This is what lots of people have been saying.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: For years now, it has gotten worse and worse. And
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: what Joe Biden said when there was a big news cycle,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: all right, when everybody said it was too late, and
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: there was a big news cycle about this, Joe Biden, remember,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: he did a press conference, it was very combative, and
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: then someone shouted the question at him, and he said,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: watch me.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: After the Robert Herr Special Counsel report.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: After the Robert Herr Special Counsel report, Joe Biden turned
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: to the door, turned back creakily, and said, watch me.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And by the way, I, this entire time, have been
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: just very uncertain about what was the more dangerous or
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: risky path given the threat Trump poses. Do you trust
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: that Joe Biden can overcome these concerns about his age
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: enough to make this case? Or do you believe you
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: should go down the messy and unknown path of seeking
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: out a different nominee? And I think what we saw
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: tonight means we need to have that debate. There's a
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: lot to come. It's complicated. it's uncertain, it's risky, but
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: we have to have that conversation.
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: I think it's totally acceptable to wonder aloud and openly
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: talk about the path of the convention. I think it's
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: totally legitimate for folks to say, you know what? Actually,
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: I think sticking with Joe Biden is the best chance
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: we have at winning, so we all should do that.
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: What is not acceptable is telling people to stop bedwetting
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: or that they didn't see what they saw or that, oh,
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: you guys just need, this is Twitter nonsense.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: It's time to grow a spine.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: Enough with that rhetorical Bullshit. It's insulting to people who
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: are on your team, who want to fight for you,
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: but have eyeballs and care deeply about this country and
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: are anxious because we all have a stake in this election.
• 22:13
  Speaker 6: It's not about one man on the ticket or about
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: the staff around him. It's about the fucking future of
• 22:19
  Speaker 6: the country.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And by the way, the staff around him, he has
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: a great campaign team. The staff is fantastic. They are
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: doing everything right. The person who is to blame right
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: now is Joe Biden because he has told all of us,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I am the guy. He's thought it through. I am
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the guy. Bet on me. I'm going to do it.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: And then he did this. And Joe Biden and anyone
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: around him, whether it's the first lady, whoever else keeps
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: encouraging him to do this. I feel terrible for the
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: staff on the campaign and a lot of the other people. Look,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: not just because a lot of them are our friends,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: but because they are doing like really good work, but
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: he is the candidate, right? And he has to like
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: lead the campaign. You can't debate for him. Right.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: He has to debate.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: And they are doing these jobs because they know, they
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: love Joe Biden. They absolutely love Joe Biden. They also
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: know that you have to defeat Donald Trump. And this is,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: as we sit here right now, that is the way
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: to do it. The choice is, right now, as of today,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: there will be a conversation in the coming days, is
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: elect Joe Biden or we get Donald Trump. Those are
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: the two choices, right? It's not the choice a lot
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: of people wanted. It's not a perfect choice, but that
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: is the option before us, right? And so that's why
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: they're doing it. That's why we have done what we
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: have done to try to help Joe Biden, right? And
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: that's why people are so frustrated and upset about this
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: debate because he did this. He wanted this debate right now, right?
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: And he had a week of practice.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: And probably should have had two. Right. And so it's just,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: it is like they, this was a big moment and
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: he did not deliver in a big moment.
• 23:51
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: And it's very frustrating.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: And look, like you said, Dan, it's a choice between
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Like if we get through
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the convention and everyone, and Joe Biden says, I'm not
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: stepping down and there's no other Democrats step up and
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: all the, you know, I've seen a lot of the
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: elected Democrats tonight on TV, which understandable. It's like right
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: after the debate, say like, no, we're sticking with Joe Biden.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: That's great. If everyone decides everyone who could run for
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: president decides that they're not They're not going to run.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: They don't want to run. Joe Biden's the guy. Joe
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Biden decides then like after that convention, of course, we
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: will do everything in our power to elect Joe Biden.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent. But like the best thing Joe Biden
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: did is to propose this debate before the convention and
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: give us a chance now to like rethink this.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: It is because the threat Donald Trump poses that we
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: have to have this debate right now about whether or
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: not it should be Joe Biden. Do not tell us
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: that because Donald Trump is a threat, we cannot have
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: this conversation. That is ridiculous.
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: And I think just to be crystal clear about one thing,
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: I did not come away from this debate wondering whether
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: Joe Biden can do the job of president.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: He can.
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: He has been doing it. He's done a great job
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: of doing it. I came away deeply concerned about his
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: ability to wage the campaign he needs to wage to
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: defeat Donald Trump. It's an important distinction.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: I am not for one second in the camp of
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: people regurgitating the like, horrible attacks from the Trump people.
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: This is about what it takes to run a campaign,
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: which is really, really hard.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: President is a much harder job. It's a much more
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: important job, but candidate is a different job. And it's
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: primarily a communications job. It's an ability to go out
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: every day and make a case.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And it's always important. But when you're running against an
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: authoritarian who could threaten democracy, then it's not just about
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: being a good candidate. that is part of the job
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: of being president in this moment right now is making
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: the case for why democracy is the better system. And
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: he has not made that case. So Axios already has
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: some comments from, um, These are House Democrats, and they
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: are not.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Who they've given their names to, obviously.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Of course not, yeah. This is not on the record.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: One said, I am in a state of shock. The
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: other said, Jamal Bowman is the hero we need right now.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: We need him to pull the fire alarm.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: A couple of... Too soon, too soon. He's been making
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the rounds. That one's been making the rounds.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: One female House Democrat said, it's time for a woman
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: to save both these men from their misery. President Whitmer
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: has a strong ring to it. So that's just a
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: sample of some of what we're getting from... I'll just say,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I imagine this is true for you guys.
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: I probably got, like, two dozen tweets tonight from friends
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: in and out of politics every single one of them
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: was as anxious as we sound this is not like
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: a political insider like agita group think things like all
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: my friends from all parts of my life just being
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: like what's happening people who don't tune into.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Politics people who don't pay attention like there's not a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: single person who's like it's actually not that bad i
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: feel like.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I want to come back to something you said which
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: is that you said like that the word panic feels
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: strange both like like too big and too small because
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: i i think I think the problem, right, is like.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: What's a little patronizing? It's like, oh, those Democrats, they're
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: all there, which I get.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Well, because we are often panicking.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: We are like that.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, for sure.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And I think what makes this different is that like,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: it's not a panic in that I think people are
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: not overreacting. And this is a moment where people are reflecting,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: not just on the debate, but what led to this moment, right?
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: And the collective sense in which we couldn't make a
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: change in all the conversations and debates we've been having
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: for a long time. That's one part of it. The
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: second part of it is, I am concerned. that we
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: spend 48 hours having this paroxysm of doubt and concern,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: and then the July 4th happens, Joe Biden does a
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: rally where he is more like how he was at
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: the State of the Union. The dynamic in the race
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't change. He's still behind in these swing state polls.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: We don't really see a clear path to how that changes,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: but we're reassured that, oh, the debate didn't have as
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: long of an impact as we thought it would. Then
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, we're marching toward a convention where
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: we never really reconciled the experience of watching that debate.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: And that's why I think just making sure that what
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: this is is not a panic, but a concerted effort
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: to give everybody who wants to protect democracy and defeat
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump the open conversation about the best person to
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: do that is so important.
• 28:08
  Speaker 6: And some people will say, this conversation only helps Trump.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. And no one wants to be having it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: But our hand was forced by what we all watched. Trump,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: the 90 minutes that we just saw. Yeah, it does. Anyway,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: let's go to favorite moments.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one other point I think is worth
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: making is.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: We had some, by the way, by the way, I
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: want you guys to know something. We went, we were
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: deep gallows humor by the end of this thing. It was,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: we were, we were drinking and we were getting through it.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: We went through from stunned silence to gallows humor in
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: about 20 minutes.
• 28:40
  Speaker 6: I liked when we were, talking about how many historians
• 28:43
  Speaker 6: said Trump was the worst president.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: That was a good part. That's, you know, yeah. By
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the way, Kamala Harris was on TV afterwards. Anderson Cooper
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: interviewed her. I believe she went on MSNBC though. I
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: haven't seen that yet. And, you know, she did quite
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: well in the interview and Anderson really pushed her. And
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: at one point she did say it was a slow start,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: at least like the vice president acknowledged that. And that's,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: you know, That's the vice president. So the idea that
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: you're going to be like, no, everything was fine. You
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: even have the vice, you have the president's former communications director.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: You have the vice president.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Like it's just, no, no one thinks it was fine.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: And if you know what, and I do, I think
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: that just telling people to deny what they saw, telling
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: people to deny objective reality, it's just not, it's just
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: not effective. Forget about whether it's right or wrong. It's
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: just not effective.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be very interested to see how, what
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Biden does at the rally he has in North Carolina tomorrow.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: because a if this was obama right and this was
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: sort of true after that robin bade is he makes
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: a self-deprecating joke about it right and then tries to
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: deliver a much better performance like will biden do that.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Right yeah i do have there there's one upside to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: this debate he will not be attacked tomorrow it's over
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: for performance enhancing drugs so he has he has put
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: that right that's to rest Silver lining.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: You see people, there were people pausing and trying to
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: feed Joe Biden Adderall through the television.
• 30:03
  Speaker 7: I did, yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: This is why you don't do time release. This is
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: why you do that.
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you gotta, you're up all night.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: It kicked into the party afterwards. That was the problem.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: And poor Joe Biden's gonna be up all night.
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: We did have a spirited debate about golf games and handicaps.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: That was wild. All of this stuff is even more
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: frustrating because it goes to show like how vulnerable Trump is.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Like the guy was an incoherent mess. He was talking about,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: he was like a little, I would say that we
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: were talking about the first 15, 20 minutes. I would
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: say like Trump was the best in the first 15 minutes.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And then Trump really declined throughout the debate.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: Biden got him upset. And then Trump became more of
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: the Trump we know.
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: One of the most obvious differences between watching the first
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: debate four years ago and the first debate now is
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: something has happened to Joe Biden's voice that has made
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: it softer, more frail, and has led him to cough
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: a lot. And again, I know I'm talking optics and
• 30:58
  Speaker 6: optics doesn't matter when you're doing the job of president,
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: but it matters a lot as a candidate. And it
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: just makes it hard for him to get his point
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: across and to get these lines out and to string
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: together arguments over the course of two minutes in a
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: way that is compelling or even at times like fully understandable.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, we should note, I mean, yeah, you're correct
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: under all scenarios that his voice has changed. He also,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: it came out that he had a cold.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Has he had it since January?
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, like he sounded worse than usual. Like
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: he sounded like he had to cough and he could
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: not cough in the first 15 minutes. Now, why his
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: campaign did not put out the fact that he had
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: a cold in advance of that?
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll just say, so you know what? The, the, the,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Me and Tommy and Lovett, we went to the fundraiser
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: in LA with President Obama and Jimmy Kimmel, and Biden
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: was very much like he was tonight at that fundraiser.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: That was also after he had flown from the G7
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: in Italy 15 hours to LA, and that was his
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: second trip to Europe in the same week. we chalked
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: it up as like, yeah, that was a pretty bad performance.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: He is pretty tired. They should let the guy sleep.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Hopefully they'll have him sleep and prep for this debate.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: And by the way, everyone else in the crowd saw
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: that too, which is why the whole like, oh, deceptively
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: edited clip of Biden freezing. He wasn't actually freezing in
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: that moment, but the rest of the thing was bad.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: And he was tired. And I thought he would be
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: rested tonight. I hoped he would be rested tonight. He wasn't.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Look, and by the way, we have, Like, we saw
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: him at the State of the Union where he delivered.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: We did. It's also like, okay, he had a cold
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: and his voice is gravelly and not as strong as
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: it used to be. That doesn't explain why halfway through
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: an answer about abortion... he pivoted to a different answer
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: about immigration. That doesn't explain why he wasn't able to
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: push back on Donald.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Trump throughout the debate. That's a classic debate move.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: You pivot from your strongest issue to your weakest issue.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: To your weakest issue.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Mid-sentence.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Did Donald Trump bring up the attack?
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: No.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: You got to bring up the attack yourself. Then he
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: can't do it. You bring it up yourself. You see
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying? It's interesting. It's jiu-jitsu.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: He clearly got rattled.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: 40 tests.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: He clearly got rattled by his performance. He knew.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, you could tell.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: He knew that he messed up that first question. And
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: I know, because... We've prepped cancer debates before. You tell
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: him the first 10 minutes matter more than anything else.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: And he knew he messed that up and he got
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: in his head. Because he clearly had an answer on abortion.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: He had an answer on this attack that he knew
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Trump was going to make about this woman who was killed.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: And he just....
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: He combined them. He combined them, yeah.
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: You also practice, though, in debate prep, I'm sure you
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: say to him over and over again, sir, your face
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: is going to be visible forever. through the duration of
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: the debate. Every time Donald Trump speaks, they're going to
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: be looking at you too. So you have to be
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: mindful of how you look, smiling, laughing, right? He did
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: a great job of that in 2020. That's what's so
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: funny about this. It was a disaster this time.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Not ha-ha funny, but yeah. I mean, look.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: You know the staff prepped him on that.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know they prepped him. You can either laugh
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: or you can cry. Because we all re-watched the first
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: 2020 debate earlier this week, and- Trump did a terrible
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: job of that in the first debate.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Sweaty, angry.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Sweaty, he's like angry.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: He's muttering to himself. And Biden, that whole, he did,
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: that's what he nailed in that debate is he stared
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: at that camera the whole time. Every time Trump said
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: something crazy, Biden gave it that classic Biden smile.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: And he did the exact opposite of that in this debate.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I think now we're getting to the point in the
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: pod where we're all saying the same thing over and
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: over again.
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: And want to kill ourselves.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly. Do we have any final thoughts?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually don't have... We just watched the debate,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: and I think we're all feeling a bit gobsmacked, and
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: I think that's a feeling to trust for a bit.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to go back to my hotel room
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and watch it one more time before I go to bed.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Oh, you're really? Jesus Christ. Love yourself.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take the same Xanax they gave Joe
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Biden before the debate and knock myself the fuck out,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: but I think a bunch of friends.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: No, but I feel like the two texts I'm getting
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: from a lot of people that I'm sure is a
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: shared experience with some combination of what do we do
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: and are we doomed? I feel like a lot of
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: people are saying that. And what do we do? Take
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: it one step at a time. We all just watched that.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: We all saw it. Nobody knows what Joe Biden's going
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: to do. You saw Kamala Harris is doing fucking improv
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: with Anderson Cooper. Gavin Newsom doesn't know what to... Everybody's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: figuring this out. So I think everybody... I think just
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: being honest about what we saw is the first step
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: and everybody... giving, being generous with each other in knowing
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: that everyone inside of this big democratic coalition wants to
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: defeat Donald Trump. We just may not over the next
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: couple of days or weeks agree on the best way
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: to do it. That's for a second. Are we doomed?
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: We're not doomed. We're not doomed until the election is
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: over and a lot can change between now and then.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Nobody knows what's going to happen. And let's just take
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: it one step at a time. That's, that's my, my
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: one caution here.
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: I look, I'm not going to pretend tonight wasn't anything
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: but terrible. the next few days will probably be worse
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: because what tends to happen is the, the negative feelings
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: about a debate performance like this turn into articles, which
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: gets shared around, it compounds and the spin gets worse
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: and worse.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And it becomes a bit of a spiral.
• 36:16
  Speaker 6: But the fact is we have gotten like a couple
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: of months is a lifetime in politics. I'm not saying
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: that to like spin for Joe Biden. It's just an
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: objective fact. There was a fucking insurrection against the Capitol
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: that no one's talking about anymore somehow. So, you know,
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: a lot can change between now and election day and
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: a lot can change between now and the convention. And
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: it is what it is, but this weekend's going to suck.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: We got to shut down the idea to article pipeline.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: That is the fucking problem.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Per DemSource, live tracking of the debate showed that Trump's
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: support tanked when he said he wouldn't accept the results
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: of the election. Again, not surprising. There was some good
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: responses for Biden from some Midwest swing voters. I'll take
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: that for what you will. And then Trump's January 6th
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and Roe responses were also unpopular. Yes, of course. Also,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Biden just took a few questions from the pool. They
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: asked him how he did tonight. He said, I think
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: we did well. On calls for him to drop out,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: whether he has any concerns about his performance, no. It's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: hard to debate a liar. The New York Times pointed
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: out he lied 26 times. On whether he's sick, I
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: have a sore throat. Pool was then quickly ushered out.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Biden going to that watch event, Biden taking these questions
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: is the first steps you do to address a bad
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: debate performance like this.
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: The signal that they know.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: And we'll see a rally tomorrow. The next 48 hours
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: are going to be fascinating about how everyone else in
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: the party responds and what Biden does. But it is
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: worth reminding that we're going to hear this from everyone.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Why doesn't the DNC go to Biden and tell him,
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: this is going to be Joe Biden's decision. No one
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: is going to make him do it. No Democrat is
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: going to announce that they're jumping in the race because
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: you can't really do that. And this is going to
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: be a decision for the president to make.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Yep. And people can counsel him on it. People can
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: counsel him privately, publicly, whatever it may be. It's his decision. So,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: all right. Wish we had a more hope. Hey, one
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: last question. What gives you hope?
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: By the way, listen, as the debate was winding down
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: and we're all kind of, like our eyes are kind
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: of bleeding from the side and we're kind of trying
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: to find different kinds of alcohol to put together. I
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: looked around, we're in this room, we're watching it together,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: we're doing our best to laugh through it. And I'm
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: just like, we had a good time.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: We had gummy bears.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: We tried our best. We had gummy bears.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Wine and beer.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: We made the best of it.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: You know what, guys? We've got a great team here.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: French fries. We're all going to get through it together.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: You bet.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Everyone.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Hug a lib this weekend.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Hug a lib this weekend.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Did you say we're stronger together?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: We're stronger.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: All right, everyone. We'll talk to you tomorrow night in Boston. Why?
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: Bye, everyone.
• 38:46
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• 38:49
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• 38:52
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• 39:02
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• 39:05
  Speaker 1: a review. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Our show is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari. Reid
• 39:15
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• 39:18
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• 39:21
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• 39:25
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• 39:31
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• 39:34
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