Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Creating Independence: Philip Viar's Mission to Transform Home Care Services | Nursing Home Series | Senior Care

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Creating Independence: Philip Viar's Mission to Transform Home Care Services | Nursing Home Series | Senior Care · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:07
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:10
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:13
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi,
0:16
and today's guest is Philip Weyer, CEO and president of
0:20
Independence Care. They operate 30 independent,
0:23
privately owned home care agencies across multiple states,
0:27
focusing on non medical services through Medicaid waiver and
0:30
managed Medicaid insurance programs.
0:32
Their mission is to serve clients with compassion and help
0:36
them maintain independence in their lives.
0:38
They also offer specialized support for Alzheimer's and
0:41
dementia care, transportation and personal assistance.
0:45
Under Phillips leadership, Independence Care has expanded
0:48
its reach and will introduce mobile health home parks in
0:52
2025. He previously served as CEO at
0:56
the Avondale Care Group, where he honed his expertise in the
1:00
home care industry. Philip is recognized for his
1:03
strategic vision and serves on various boards that promote
1:07
healthcare and community support.
1:09
His passion for innovation drives him to seek new ways to
1:12
improve care for those who need it most.
1:15
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1:45
Now back to our guest today, the CEO and President of
1:48
Independence Care. Phillip, I appreciate you making
1:51
the time to Share your story today.
1:53
Oh, well, thank you for having me, Anthony.
1:54
I really appreciate it. So let's go back to, yeah, let's
2:00
jump into it. Let's just do it, Let's go back
2:02
early days before independence care was even started.
2:06
How were you drawn into this industry in the first place?
2:11
Well, it's an interesting story and I guess drawn in, thrown in,
2:17
however you want to categorize it.
2:21
But my mother-in-law, Lorna, she owns a or owned a home care
2:26
agency in New York City. And they had been in New York
2:29
City since 2001. Actually they worked for the
2:34
company Brookdale. They're, I think they may be the
2:36
largest senior living company in the country, but if not very
2:40
close. And they were working inside of
2:43
Brookdale building up in Quincy, MA, providing home care as the
2:47
preferred provider in the building.
2:49
And Brookdale was building a beautiful building down in
2:52
Battery Park, right around the corner from the World Trade
2:55
Center, Stevenson High School, if you're familiar with New York
2:58
City at all. And it was a beautiful building.
3:01
And they were looking for somebody to come in and be the
3:04
preferred provider. My understanding is they didn't
3:06
have assisted living licenses in New York back then.
3:09
So they were, you know, looking for home care agency to provide
3:12
those services. So they, you know, they
3:14
interviewed people in New York. And yeah, people in New York can
3:18
be very pushy and demanding. So people were like, well, this
3:21
is how we're going to do it. And they're a billion dollar
3:23
company. They were looking for, you know,
3:25
more of somebody who's willing to be told what to do.
3:28
And maybe and so and then I, I don't know, unions, I don't
3:32
think they wanted, they tried to stay away from that.
3:34
So Long story short, they asked my mother-in-law and her
3:37
business partner Peter, to come down to New York, applied for
3:40
their home care license and, you know, be the preferred provider
3:45
in the building. So Lorna filled out the
3:48
application. She brought it all the way to
3:50
the state in Albany, right on the director's desk.
3:53
And he looked at it and said, Oh my God, we gave you the wrong
3:55
application. And so the waiting period was
3:59
very long at that point, maybe three years.
4:01
He was very helpful. He was also retiring.
4:04
So on the way out the door, he helped Lauren to get their
4:06
license quickly, which just, I wish I could remember his name
4:10
because Lauren is always thanking.
4:12
Many times she tells the story about Avondale and so.
4:16
So she was able to bypass that three-year waiting period.
4:19
Yes, and they were, they were doing Medicare and Medicaid up
4:23
in up in Massachusetts and it was a little bit different in
4:27
New York. So they had gotten the certified
4:30
agency application, which is, you know, this big versus the
4:34
one that they should have gotten, which was this big.
4:36
So the guy, you know, he felt bad and figured on the way out
4:39
the door, I'll do something nice for this lady.
4:41
So, so he was very helpful. And then they got the license.
4:45
They moved into the building August 12th, maybe August 2001,
4:51
September 11th, 2001, less than a month later was obviously
4:57
complete disaster. They were had to get everybody
5:01
out. They hot wired a school bus.
5:03
It's just, you know, everyone has a crazy story about that day
5:07
in the months that followed. So, you know, everyone moved to
5:12
various different places and I think it was four months later
5:15
they started to move back in. At this point, the business was,
5:21
you know, was the business was not doing well obviously because
5:25
of what was happening. And so I think they're
5:27
considering leaving New York. Thankfully they didn't because
5:32
they ended up getting things going there.
5:34
Long story short, and then they started working with ATRI, which
5:37
is another huge senior living company doing essentially the
5:40
same thing, having an office in the building, being the
5:43
preferred provider. And they have worked in ATRI
5:46
building up in Sorry, Bill. Just sorry, just to interrupt
5:49
for a second. So I understand how that works.
5:51
So they've got an office in a bricks and mortar facility where
5:55
like a nursing home facility. And when people are ready to
5:58
leave that facility and go home, most of those folks, a lot of
6:01
those folks still need some kind of help.
6:03
They need some kind of in home care.
6:05
And so you're there or she was there in that building to sort
6:08
of be the preferred provider and say, hey, we can help you make
6:11
that transition. Am I understanding that right?
6:13
Right. So we would provide, you know,
6:16
mostly non medical, but you know, we did a little bit of
6:18
skilled care, but mostly non medical people, you know, a
6:21
caregiver, helping them get ready for bed or ready in the
6:24
morning for the day, medication reminders, helping them with
6:27
housekeeping. And so we would have an office
6:30
in the building and then you know, work with the management.
6:32
So it seems seamless. You're getting the services from
6:36
us. And then and then that was a
6:38
good model. There wasn't really anybody else
6:40
doing that in New York. So when they start, then they
6:43
started to work with the Atria buildings.
6:46
Atria like another big national home care provider in the same
6:50
set up. They had an office in the
6:51
building that was staffed with a nurse or two nurses and they
6:54
would manage the caregivers that were in the building.
6:57
So we had probably, you know, 30-40, fifty people on service
7:01
in any of those buildings. And then and then what happened
7:06
was the New York came out to do their first survey.
7:09
They had never come up to survey them for re licensure.
7:12
That was really backed up. So it was 5 1/2 years later or
7:15
something like that, and they showed up and they showed up at
7:18
like a post office box store because that was the address
7:22
they had. So they called very upset and
7:24
said, well, where are you? And they gave them the address
7:27
for the Hallmark and they went there and they explained what
7:29
they were doing and they said, OK, well, where are your
7:33
records? And I said, well, the records
7:34
for the people that live here are right here, and the records
7:37
for the people that live in Riverdale are in the office in
7:40
Riverdale. And so it was a unique
7:43
situation. So they said, well, the
7:45
regulations say they all need to be in one place.
7:48
So. So they went and got an office
7:51
in Midtown Manhattan. And my wife had just gotten done
7:56
with college and, you know, loved the idea of living in New
7:59
York, going to New York, you know, the shows, the park.
8:02
And I grew up in a small town in New Hampshire.
8:04
I was not looking, I was not looking to go live in New York.
8:08
But we would go there on weekends and we would, you know,
8:11
copy the records and bring them to this new main office.
8:14
And then we'd go out to dinner with her mom and her business
8:17
partner, and I'd spend the whole time I'm asking them like, hey,
8:20
why aren't you doing that, Sir? Why aren't you doing that?
8:22
Or, you know, if you did it this way, like, I have any idea.
8:26
But I've always been very inquisitive.
8:28
I used to hang out with my older sister and cousins, and I was
8:32
limited to 21 questions a day. I usually spend at least half of
8:36
them trying to figure out why they didn't want to hear me
8:38
asking more questions. So, so one night maybe we had
8:43
been doing this for a few months.
8:45
And so we had been there a few, a bunch of times, and I asked a
8:50
question and said, well, you know, we have this office and
8:54
there's two offices and a bunch of other room and why don't, why
8:57
don't you come do it? And I was working at a mortgage
9:01
company at the time and we were doing, you know, no doc loans
9:05
for janitors for $1,000,000, you know, 105% equity.
9:10
So I kind of see, I saw the writing on the wall about the
9:12
mortgage business. And my dad was in the grocery
9:15
business his whole life since he was like 12.
9:20
So when he retired and he always said, you know, find a job in an
9:24
industry that people always need and, you know, home care, the
9:28
baby boomers, all of that. Certainly that seemed to fit the
9:32
bill. I didn't really listen to my dad
9:35
as much as I should have, but that was one that I picked up
9:37
on. So my wife and I moved there and
9:42
we were living 43rd between 8th and 9th, right in the middle of
9:46
Times Square basically. And our office was down the
9:49
street. And we just, we started to
9:52
figure out what we were doing. And then probably maybe very
9:56
actually very close to when we started, it felt like we almost
10:00
lost our job because the states started to put pressure on the
10:04
buildings like the Hallmark by Brookdale and the HR buildings
10:08
to get licensed on their own. So we were in a, we're in a bit
10:15
of a pickle because that was where all of our business came
10:18
from. So if they got licensed, that
10:20
would be a problem. And so in New York, there's the
10:25
system that they use is they're certified home care agencies
10:27
that can bill Medicare and Medicaid.
10:29
And then there are licensed home care agencies that can do all of
10:33
those services, but can't actually do the billing.
10:35
So the certified agencies contract with the licensed
10:39
agencies to do the care. And so that was the setup.
10:43
And then the rest of it was like the Medicaid waiver program was
10:48
run by the city and there are like 20 contracts.
10:51
And unless like you were the, I don't think I was going to say
10:55
the cousins, you know, the mayor of the cousin or the cousins
10:58
mayor, but I'm not sure that would have helped you anyway.
11:02
It's hard to get a contract. So we, so I started to ask about
11:07
Medicare and Medicaid and when they were up in Massachusetts
11:10
and I think it was 9898, they went from fee for service to a
11:15
capitated rate for Medicare. And I think something like 78%
11:19
of home care businesses went out of went out of business over the
11:22
next couple of years. Explain.
11:24
Explain for an outsider why that had such a significant effect.
11:30
Well, for a lot of people, and I know particularly in my mother
11:32
in law's situation, fee for service means every time you go
11:37
out and do something, you bill for it.
11:39
So you know what you're billing for.
11:40
And then you're you know, you know, your payroll isn't then a
11:44
capitated rate or episodic payment or depending on what you
11:47
know, what they call it is where you get a set amount of money to
11:50
provide care till the person is out of their episode.
11:55
So for people that were used to not billing that way, it was a
11:58
complete change. Also, it meant that you had to
12:02
be more careful about what you prescribed or what you you know,
12:06
what your plan of care was to make sure there weren't too many
12:09
visits or in a lot of places just couldn't couldn't handle
12:14
that. I know in my mother in law's
12:17
case, there was a long time where they just were kept doing
12:21
it the wrong way and just like they didn't know any better and
12:26
it was a pretty confusing time. So, so Peter especially was very
12:31
against Medicare and Medicaid when we were trying to figure
12:34
out, all right, well, what are we going to do if all these
12:36
buildings get licensed? And so one of the things so
12:41
finally I finally my wife, finally I just worked, I was
12:46
working with this guy. He had, they had a certified
12:50
home care agency and a long term care agency and he was the, he's
12:55
the vice president of something. His name was Tim Letty.
12:58
He was my greatest mentor I ever had in New York.
13:01
I met him very early on and we still keep in touch.
13:04
He's he's a real big deal now. But anyway, we, I just, we
13:11
signed a contract with them to provide care and I told Pete
13:14
like, well, we already did it. I've already told him we're
13:16
doing it. And so he said, all right, so we
13:20
started doing it and things changed.
13:24
We had a, we had a good in with these places.
13:27
We, because we worked in these buildings and people needed
13:31
other services other than what we are giving them, whether it
13:34
was skilled care or, you know, doctor visits or PT or so when
13:40
we worked with these other providers, they were interested
13:44
in working with us because not only we were going to be just
13:48
another provider, we were going to be more of a partner.
13:51
We're going to be a referral partner.
13:52
And, and so we were able to sign, I think some like 40
13:57
contracts to do this in the first eight months we were doing
14:01
it. Our census went from, oh, geez,
14:05
I don't know, maybe about 100 to like 450 like very quickly.
14:11
And then and then Obamacare came and Medicaid redesigned in New
14:17
York. And so that city program that I
14:19
was talking about before they went to a more managed care
14:25
situation. So they, you know, all the money
14:27
went to the managed care organizations and then they
14:29
could contract with whoever they wanted.
14:32
So the contracting opened up from, you know, those 20 places
14:35
that had the contract to whoever they wanted.
14:38
So we were able to get a contract with just about every
14:42
MCO that came in. And so then things start to
14:47
really completely change. But as it turns out, Atria ended
14:51
up getting license. So we stopped working in those
14:57
buildings. So the transition to doing this
15:01
was was interesting, but one of the things we learned is, do you
15:06
know what a 2O2 building is? The first time it came up to the
15:10
building, first time it came up in a meeting, there were some a
15:13
bunch of people were in the room and they were like, yeah, so
15:16
would you be able to do this in a 2O2 building?
15:18
And I was like, yeah, absolutely.
15:20
That's one of the best places to utilize this type of service
15:23
would be a 2O2 building. And then everyone left the room
15:26
and I turned to the kid that I was with and I was like, hey, do
15:29
you know what a 2O2 building is? And he was like, I have no idea.
15:33
I thought you were going to tell me.
15:35
So I didn't know. But it's a Section 8 housing for
15:38
the elderly and disabled. And so a lot of them are set up
15:42
like a like an assisted living basically.
15:45
They have, you know, a service coordinator that works there.
15:48
They have to have security. You know, there's a couple
15:52
other, you know, regulations that so it was essentially like
15:58
the Hallmark, but instead of paying, you know, $8000 a month
16:02
to live there, people were paying, you know, $600 a month
16:05
to live there. But what we found is, you know,
16:08
the kind of services they got were, you know, if some, if
16:12
there was 100 people that lived in one of these buildings,
16:15
they'd maybe 50 of them would get some sort of home care
16:18
service, but they would get it from 32 different agencies.
16:22
So nobody ever knew who was coming and going or if, you
16:26
know, Missus Smith's aide didn't show up.
16:30
Like nobody really knew who to call because you had to go
16:32
through the list or you couldn't just send over somebody from
16:36
Missus Jones's room to go help out because you were also
16:39
working in that room. So, you know, we would go to all
16:41
these places and explain what we did at the Brookdale building
16:44
and the Atria building and essentially say, well, we could
16:47
do that for you. And people would say, well, Gee,
16:49
since we don't have any money, and we'd say, well, it doesn't
16:51
cost anything because, you know, well, it's a very nice thing.
16:56
You know, it's not completely like altruistic.
16:58
We were making, you know, we were getting clients that way.
17:02
And then we're also able to get all those MCO contracts because,
17:05
again, they wanted access to be able to get to the residents in
17:09
these buildings to promote their services.
17:12
So it just really worked out. The whole system worked out very
17:15
well. And so at what point did you
17:18
figure out, hey, we've got a model here that is replicable
17:23
and we should take this to other geographies as well?
17:29
Well, I probably thought that much earlier than was really a
17:33
reality. I'm always maybe one step ahead
17:35
of where where I am in real life in my head.
17:37
But I don't know. Pretty early on I thought, you
17:42
know, pretty early on, like I said, we almost lost our jobs
17:45
like the first year that we live, we worked there because
17:48
they were, you know, things were going to get licensed.
17:50
So it was something I put a lot of thought into.
17:53
My wife and I would talk about it essentially 24/7.
17:56
We would go home and talk about it and walk to work and talk
17:59
about it, be at work and talk about it.
18:00
So I would say probably, you know, around that Medicaid reads
18:04
of 2010 that that time about, but we were so busy in New York,
18:11
you know, we ended up getting I think our highest census was
18:15
1257. So we that was, you know, a lot
18:22
of work. And anytime I wanted to open up
18:25
a recruiting office in the Bronx or this in Brooklyn, Peter
18:29
didn't want to because he didn't have his hands on it and nobody
18:32
was going to be there. And so, so that was sort of hard
18:37
to convince him, but luckily it was sort of a, you know, a
18:42
kismet moment maybe. But HHA Exchange, they're the
18:48
computer software that we use for our enterprise system.
18:51
It keeps track of billing and payroll and your collections
18:56
module and nursing notes and your EVV, your electronic visit
19:00
verification, which finally became mandatory this year that
19:05
I think it was in 2020. Originally they were going to
19:07
make it mandatory, kept pushing it off.
19:10
But anyway, they're so they're an online based software system
19:15
and they first started back in 2008 maybe.
19:19
And we worked with one of the companies, one of those
19:22
certified companies that could bill Medicare and Medicaid.
19:25
They wanted a way to be able to communicate with their licensed
19:28
agencies without having to fax or pick up the phone.
19:31
So this guy Raphael was working on the software which became HHA
19:35
Exchange. And now I think there's the
19:37
leader across the country and the sort of software, but we
19:40
used to be able to call him up and be like Raphael, This isn't
19:43
how we do things. You got to change it around and
19:44
then like the next morning, you look and it would be different.
19:48
I think he finally retired. He was back in Israel.
19:51
Good. Good for him.
19:52
I miss him, though. I wish I could still call him
19:55
and tell him to change things someday.
19:57
But anyway, we had a very good relationship with with all of
20:00
them. And our office was right across
20:02
from Madison Square Garden, so it was a very easy place to get
20:06
to. And then when like HHA Exchange,
20:10
they'd hire new salespeople, they would send them to our
20:13
office and so they could see how people used it and they'd spend
20:16
the day and hang out. So we were used to sort of doing
20:19
things like that for them. So they were trying to get the
20:24
contract to do EVV for Pennsylvania.
20:27
They were moving to a managed Medicaid system as well.
20:30
What is? EDV.
20:32
Electronic visit verification so when you get to somebody's house
20:35
you have to clock in you either can call from their telephone or
20:39
you can use AGPS app, but there has to be one of those that
20:43
links you to their house both on a clock in and a clock out
20:46
basis. And I think now the the limit, I
20:52
think they put it as maybe 85% you need to be out.
20:55
It's gone up every year. But yeah, so I think I lost my
21:02
train of thought about electronic as a verification.
21:05
Oh, yeah. They were getting the yeah,
21:07
sorry. They were getting the, they were
21:10
trying to get the contract with Pennsylvania, and Pennsylvania
21:13
won one company to do all of it. So they had signed the contract
21:18
with the state and the two other managed care organizations and
21:21
UPMC, the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center,
21:25
they're a behemoth in Pennsylvania.
21:27
I think they, I think they employ over 100,000 people and
21:31
they're the biggest employer in the state.
21:33
So they have a lot of sway and how how things turn out.
21:37
So I guess they wanted to see it live and see somebody using it
21:41
and how it works. So they invited him to our
21:43
office and I think there were seven people that came,
21:47
different executives and people putting the plan together.
21:50
And so they sat around all day and, you know, asked questions
21:52
and went to different departments and, and at the end
21:56
of the day, we had like an exit interview and they finally said
22:00
sort of the same thing Peter had said to me like almost 10 years
22:03
ago, like, well, so why don't you go do it?
22:07
And I was like, well, I've always thought the hardest thing
22:10
about business is getting somebody to pay you to do
22:12
something. I think the rest of it you could
22:14
figure out if you had to, but if nobody's going to pay you to do
22:18
it, it's not a real business. So I said, well, you guys
22:20
promise like you'll sign a contract and we'll work
22:22
together. And they were like, well, yeah,
22:24
great. And I was like, all right, well,
22:25
for any of your business short, I'll try and talk Peter into it.
22:29
So I, I finally did. I told him he could own half of
22:34
it and not have to do anything ever and just allow him, you
22:37
know, allow me the time to, to work on it when I need it.
22:40
Sounds like a pretty good offer. Yeah, so it worked out.
22:43
Well, we started that in 2017 in Pittsburgh, which was a really
22:50
great experience. I really, really enjoy that
22:53
town. I've gotten to make some great
22:56
relationships in court, including the mayor, Ed Gainey.
23:01
He's a great guy. We met him, actually.
23:03
Our office was right down the street from He's a state Rep.
23:07
I think he's a state Rep at the time.
23:09
And he came back from Harrisburg that day, made it under 2 hours,
23:14
he said, just to come to our grand opening.
23:18
Anyway, I stayed in touch with him.
23:20
He helped me out with, Oh well, another personal situation.
23:27
Well, it's a whole other story. But anyway, he's a great guy.
23:29
I mean, and I like Pittsburgh a lot.
23:32
It was our first, like I said, first jump into another city and
23:37
being able to figure out, you know, how we can be there and
23:40
how we can make sure our culture and the way that we look at
23:44
things and the way that we operate is left there without
23:46
being there all the time, which I think was always Peter's
23:49
underlying issue about opening things at other places.
23:53
So we figured that out and that was really great.
23:58
So let me ask you this. Phillips that that was not.
24:00
Our first. Independence care, though.
24:03
So oh, it wasn't So no, I was just kind of thinking, thinking
24:07
ahead here. You know, I've talked to a lot
24:09
of home healthcare companies and it's really common for them to
24:13
go with a franchise model, like, hey, we figured out something
24:15
that works in this location, let's franchise it.
24:18
But that's not the approach that you guys took.
24:21
No. Tell us your thought process
24:24
there. Well, my wife.
24:29
My wife. Easier to sort of like hold
24:31
control, easier to kind of go my.
24:34
Wife is, I don't want to say control freak because she's not
24:37
a freak, but my life, my wife likes to have control.
24:40
And so that was a lot of it. She didn't want, you know, for
24:43
her, she said if she's not a part of it, she doesn't want her
24:47
name. Like she doesn't want her name
24:48
on it. And to her, that's what a
24:50
franchise would be. No matter how much you, you
24:53
know, look through the people and no matter how much you
24:57
vetted anybody, it just, you never know.
25:00
And she just wasn't really willing to do it.
25:03
You guys had figured out a good way to do things.
25:06
You were building your own culture, your own systems.
25:09
You wanted to make sure that that remained consistent
25:11
throughout any new locations that you were going to open up.
25:14
Right. And you know, and we also
25:16
thought in this, we haven't, we haven't figured this out and the
25:19
opportunity hasn't come up. But we also thought, you know,
25:21
if you find the right person, you can set it up as a franchise
25:25
really anyway, you find the right person, you do some sort
25:27
of profit share. Everyone's really in the same
25:30
position and you know, so, so in the long term, I think if some a
25:37
situation like that came up, that would be great because at
25:41
some point it is hard to make sure you get to all 30 different
25:44
places on Yeah. Yeah.
25:47
So paint a picture for us about what the company looks like
25:51
today, how many locations, which states what's going on?
25:55
So we are in, I forgot all the, I'm just going to list them out
25:59
of my, I'm sorry, I don't have to give you numbers that I'm
26:01
wrong about, but we're in New Hampshire.
26:04
We cover basically the whole state.
26:05
I grew up there, so that was special to me and my family
26:09
still lives there. We have 5 locations in
26:12
Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Indiana, Chicago, Georgia, Texas,
26:22
Oklahoma, Michigan, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho and Arkansas and
26:34
Missouri. It's quite a list, yes.
26:38
And so and so each of these locations is doing roughly the
26:43
same thing, offering the same kinds of services in the same
26:45
way. Yeah, there's a couple of
26:48
outliers. In Kentucky.
26:50
We have an intellectual disabilities license, so we do a
26:54
bunch of that. Also in Arkansas we have an
26:57
intellectual disability license and so we do a little bit of
27:03
that. But again, but other than that,
27:05
mostly the rest of it is all the same sort of offerings, you
27:09
know, non medical home care, helping with activities of daily
27:13
living. Is it mostly senior care or I
27:17
know you mentioned those two locations that you've got
27:19
intellectual disability licenses, but and the other
27:22
locations, is it still mostly senior care?
27:24
Or Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Mostly we do some, we do some
27:30
adolescence and some, but it's mostly, yeah, mostly 65 and
27:36
over. I would say about 90% if not
27:39
more. So to get from where you were to
27:43
where you are now with three locations, that's a pretty good
27:47
growth curve. What was the single most
27:51
effective growth strategy for you?
27:56
Grit, just really just keep moving forward, keep applying,
28:03
keep, you know, keep looking for the next opportunity.
28:06
Just keep at it everyday. Really.
28:11
I mean, that's a pretty simple answer, I suppose, but I really
28:14
think you know. Just hard work.
28:17
Those are the grindstone kind of a thing.
28:19
Yeah, In research, you know, the places that we're applying for,
28:24
you know, like we, we had reasons for the most part to
28:28
apply to them. Some sort of, you know, and ease
28:30
of entry was actually a big one. You know, the faster we could
28:34
get in and start providing services and helping people out,
28:37
the better. Yeah, I mentioned before I
28:40
didn't, I never wanted to live in New York.
28:42
And I, I didn't. And I'm glad that I'm glad that
28:46
I had the experience and I'm glad that I'm gone.
28:50
But one of the things it, it taught me is that saying you we
28:56
had this, we're an office and there was a security guard right
28:59
there. And I remember like at least
29:01
once a week, he would yell to me as I walked by, Hey, remember,
29:04
if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.
29:08
And I just thought it was funny. But looking back on it, it's
29:12
true. And going to other places, you
29:15
know, New York is just different.
29:16
Everybody, not everybody, but you know, just it's faster pace,
29:20
it's more aggressive, it's more competitive.
29:23
It's more, you know, you, you got to be on, you got to be on
29:26
your game. And so it is certainly been
29:30
helpful going to other places, you know, just with different
29:33
ideas that those areas haven't really heard or just, you know,
29:37
bring sort of different mindset to what we're doing has been
29:42
interesting. So in retrospect, I'm glad I had
29:44
that experience. I think it's been helpful.
29:47
Yeah, make it here. You can make it anywhere.
29:49
I'd love to hear Phillip about the Mobile Health Home Park
29:53
concept. What is this and why are you so
29:56
excited about it? Oh, well, I so this goes back a
30:02
long way. I grew up in a town in New
30:04
Hampshire that had three mobile home parks.
30:07
And I sort of romanticized them as as a kid because all, you
30:11
know, everyone had to get on the bus to go there.
30:13
But then they all got off the bus and they all got to go play
30:16
football together and they all got to like hang out.
30:18
And it just seemed real exciting.
30:20
And then I remember I went to this kid, Josh's like 10th
30:23
birthday and we had a sleepover. And I just remember thinking
30:26
like, wow, this is like camping, like everyone's so close and it
30:31
just, I don't know it, it felt really great to me.
30:34
So for the longest time I've thought about mobile homes.
30:42
I was trying to actually find something the other day and I
30:44
think I found something from 2009 where it was talking about
30:49
affordable housing and in home care.
30:53
And this, some of these issues over the years have just got
30:56
worse and worse. But the idea was that, you know,
31:00
housing is hard to build. It's expensive to build.
31:03
And this is a, you know, less expensive way.
31:06
And haven't, you know, assisted livings at a mobile Home Park
31:09
was really the basic idea to begin with.
31:12
And sometimes it was more of a joke because people would laugh
31:15
when I would say it. But anytime I ever drove by a
31:17
mobile Home Park, I would point out to whoever I was in the car
31:20
with, look, that's a perfect example.
31:22
And then I would repeat the idea about what we should do there
31:25
with turning it into an assisted living, more or less.
31:29
And so over the last few years and probably COVID had a lot to
31:34
do with this, I would imagine, not the numbers in front of me,
31:38
but recruiting. If you ask any home care
31:41
provider what's your biggest issue, I would imagine it would
31:45
be recruiting, staffing, you know, keeping, keeping
31:50
caregivers. And so the other part is we, in
31:55
the buildings we worked in New York City, we did a lot of
31:58
cluster care. So instead of having, and
32:01
especially with Medicare and Medicaid, you know, they'll get
32:05
4 hours a day of service or sometimes even 2.
32:08
And what happens is somebody goes in, they do something, you
32:12
know, maybe make them breakfast real quick.
32:14
And then they will sit down and watch Wheel of Fortune.
32:17
And then 2 1/2 hours later, she gets up and she, you know, the
32:23
caregiver might, you know, fix her lunch and then, you know, do
32:28
a load of laundry and leave. And it's not as helpful as it
32:33
could be. So since we had, you know,
32:35
people all together, what we would do is if you got, you
32:38
know, if you had four or eight or, you know, however you're
32:41
going to break it up or 6 of people with four hours, instead
32:46
of somebody sitting there and doing that, you'd have that one
32:48
person going around. So they're constantly working
32:51
and they're constantly going around seeing who needs help and
32:53
what they could be doing. And you know, people like that
32:56
makes them feel more independent.
32:57
They don't necessarily have somebody.
32:59
A lot of people don't like the stigma of somebody sitting there
33:02
next to them in scrubs or walking down the street.
33:05
So all of our caregivers wear polo shirts and khaki pants just
33:10
because that's the way Lorna taught me a long time ago.
33:14
And so where was I? So this is this idea is called
33:21
cluster care. Right.
33:22
Yeah. So cluster care.
33:24
So we did a lot of that and I thought you can do this.
33:27
So instead of getting 4 hours, you can get somebody who got 24
33:30
hour care, but for the same price and they're getting the
33:34
same amount of care because nobody needs like it's not
33:36
helpful to sit there and stare at somebody or watch TV with
33:39
them really. Yeah, because the the provider
33:41
isn't sitting there the entire time.
33:42
They're moving around to different locations, people who
33:45
are nearby and helping them and then coming back.
33:48
Right, right. And so you know that's another
33:50
good thing you can do in these in these mobile homes.
33:54
And so in nine months, back in July, we have a home care agency
34:02
in Arkansas. And I was looking at the website
34:06
for some reason and said that they were reposting this grant
34:10
bid. And so I immediately thought,
34:12
well, they're reposting and I wonder why.
34:15
So I read it and it was for 50 to 60 units of housing for
34:20
clients who have intellectual disabilities, behavioral health
34:25
issues or, and, or substance abuse.
34:29
And they're creating a new level of service.
34:31
I think it's called independent supportive living, therapeutic
34:37
Level 3 or some long name. And so these are for people who
34:42
have those issues that have already gone through level 1 or
34:45
level 2, which is more sort of strict locked facility, what
34:49
have you. And they're working on getting
34:51
out and working, like living out, out independently.
34:55
And so the idea is they would, you know, go to whatever this
34:59
place was and you would help them get jobs, you would help
35:02
them get back into the community, connect them with
35:04
therapy services, help them with, you know, whatever daily
35:07
activities you need. So it was to provide 50 to 60 of
35:12
units housing for that type of model.
35:15
And so we put together a plan where originally it was to buy a
35:19
mobile Home Park and to put in tiny homes.
35:23
So that's what we're going to do.
35:25
And we put in our proposal thinking like, well, there's no
35:29
way we'll ever win this, but this was a good exercise.
35:32
And maybe now in the future, like, we'll have something, you
35:35
know, we have a much bigger model now.
35:38
And we have, you know, things we can show people and, you know,
35:41
that sort of thing. So I thought it would be helpful
35:44
anyhow. And then in the middle of
35:46
September, we found out we won, we got the award.
35:50
And so that was shocking. But, but it was a real roller
35:54
coaster ride because it was very exciting that we got it.
35:57
But we had used as an example this mobile Home Park in Camden,
36:01
AR, which I doubt you've heard of, but it is about an hour and
36:05
45 minutes South and a little West of Little Rock.
36:10
And it's it's a very, it's a very small town.
36:14
Yeah. Well, I guess it's a city.
36:16
But right next to it is Highland Industrial Park, which is a
36:21
25,000 acre industrial park. It's got like an 8 mile long
36:25
rocket range. Raytheon is in there.
36:29
They're just building a new factory to build the Iron Dome
36:32
missiles. I think they build the Patriot
36:34
missile there, the slingshot, some other things, anything that
36:38
blows up. It used to be a military base,
36:41
Navy base back in the 40s and 50s, and then it got
36:46
decommissioned and LBJ sold it to I think Brown and Root
36:52
Company in Texas, which I think was his father-in-law.
36:56
But then it became Halliburton down the road.
36:58
So maybe, maybe. So there's a lot of industry
37:00
nearby. Well, just in that one spot
37:03
really. And it's sort of interesting
37:04
because that and if locally it's interesting, you may have nobody
37:08
else made it find it interesting.
37:10
But the industrial park is in one county and that county is
37:14
basically an industrial park, but then everything else is in
37:18
the other county next door. So, so they have some weird
37:21
sharing of resources and stuff because otherwise there's really
37:27
nothing in these other towns. So anyway, so it's a.
37:31
Very You need roads, you need sewers, you need places for
37:33
people to live, hospitals, schools, that kind.
37:35
Of thing and so they hire a lot of you know higher end workers
37:40
over there, but there's really no place that say if you're
37:43
making 100 and 1100 and $50,000 a year there, there really isn't
37:48
housing for that market there. So people are either driving
37:52
back to Little Rock or going, staying four days at a hotel and
37:57
then going back to Mississippi or Texas or wherever they live.
38:01
So it's, it's an interesting place, I guess, to say the
38:04
least. But I called up the girl, the
38:06
lady that was selling the mobile Home Park and I'd talked to her
38:09
about a month before and she was actually very excited.
38:13
She's like, I've actually wanted to turn this into a assisted
38:16
living. I just, you know, never had the
38:18
time and I owned some other stuff in town and sorry.
38:21
Philip, let me interrupt you for a second.
38:23
So the idea is it's a mobile Home Park, but each of the
38:27
individual units is an independent living unit for for
38:32
somebody. And you've got care providers
38:35
that can go around to all these different units.
38:37
That's right. So everybody who's living there
38:39
is getting some sort of care from you.
38:41
Well, no, not everybody. And it doesn't have to be that
38:44
way. I've actually, we've actually
38:47
figured out a financial model where you could let people from
38:50
like the VA or even Medicaid waiver program, people live for
38:55
free essentially or very small stipend.
38:58
So long as you're doing the care, you're, you know, you're
39:02
still making money. And so long as you don't need to
39:04
be greedy, it's a good business model, I think.
39:07
But I think it would be, we'll get there down the road, but for
39:11
right now the way that we're doing this one anyway and as
39:15
part of this Level 3 in the housing, they they don't want.
39:19
And I think it's against the regulations to like segregate
39:23
them. You can't make a campus, you
39:24
can't put them all in the same building.
39:26
They want them integrated in the community.
39:29
So in this particular place, well, real quick about this
39:33
other girl, Brittany, who owned the park, I called her and was
39:36
like, we're going to buy your mobile Home Park.
39:38
And she's like, Oh my God, I sold it to somebody last week.
39:41
And I was like, oh, you can't be serious.
39:44
And I was devastated. And I was thinking, Oh my God,
39:46
like, now we're going to lose out on the grant and now we're
39:48
not going to be able to do this. I'm going to fly to Arkansas and
39:51
change your mind. So I flew to Arkansas and I went
39:55
to the mobile Home Park and I started asking people, hey, you
39:57
know where Brittany is? So then they told me to go up to
40:00
like the laundromat that she owned or the dry cleaner or
40:03
whatever it was. And I ran into her husband and
40:07
he was like, yeah, I really think, I really think we have to
40:10
see this through, but maybe it will fall through.
40:13
And so I was disappointed. And then I went to because of
40:18
that weird thing where it's all in different counties.
40:21
They have some. It's called the Tri-county
40:23
Economic Development or whatever it's called.
40:26
And so I went there thinking, well, maybe these people have an
40:28
idea. And so I talked to James Lee,
40:32
the guy that runs the place, and he said, well, there's this
40:36
Airport Inn for sale up on the main road by the airport.
40:39
And I had seen it and it looks like a real dump.
40:42
And he's like, but it's also got a gas station and a convenience
40:45
store. And as part of the program that
40:49
we're doing, we have to create jobs for, you know, these for
40:54
the clients to work in, blah, blah, blah.
40:56
So there's a convenience store and a gas station and some other
40:59
building. And I was like, well, it was
41:01
interesting. And I was, I was on the way out
41:03
of town. And so he said, I know real
41:06
estate lady, I can call and she can probably meet you there.
41:09
So I went up over there and walked around.
41:12
By the time she got there, I'd already realized that project
41:15
was way over. And so when she got there, I
41:18
told her basically that so we don't need to look around, but I
41:21
explained what we're doing and what we're looking for.
41:24
And she said, all right, well, I might have something for you.
41:27
And I didn't know this until basically we closed.
41:31
She used to own the mobile Home Park that we bought, and she
41:35
sold it four years ago to this mother and a son who I guess the
41:39
father died. And they used insurance money,
41:42
about 14 mobile home parks. And then I think they realized
41:46
they couldn't keep up 14 mobile home parks, and this is one of
41:49
them that they were not keeping up, or maybe the one.
41:52
And so she went to them and said, hey, I think I can get you
41:55
out of this if you want, blah, blah.
41:58
So she came back and was like, yeah, I found one for you.
42:01
And it's right. It's neighbors to the Highland
42:04
Industrial Park, which ultimately has been very
42:09
helpful. They own a piece of land that's
42:12
about an acre and a half. They own a, they're the biggest
42:15
land owners in East Camden. They own most of the town, but
42:19
they own this random 1 1/2 acre piece of land right in front of
42:23
the mobile Home Park. So they also own the water and
42:27
sewer company. So we've had to deal with them a
42:29
bunch. So I asked them if we could have
42:33
that land and we could build a park on it so everybody in town
42:38
could have access to it in basketball court and pickleball
42:42
and some other stuff. And they said, well, we don't
42:47
sell our land. So anyway, I've been working
42:50
with this lady there who is actually also on the City
42:54
Council, but the director of business development at Islands.
42:57
So her name is Janice. She's been extremely helpful.
43:00
And so I think they're, I think they're going to do it actually.
43:05
So where they stand now? Like where?
43:08
Where is the Mobile Health Home Park?
43:12
Is it opening soon? Here we are, January 31st, 2025,
43:16
recording this episode. Yeah.
43:18
So it should be, it should be open for this program in July.
43:22
They haven't, they haven't actually completed all of the
43:25
regulations and the writing out of the program officially.
43:29
So I think my understanding is they have to wait till the
43:32
legislature comes back in June and then they'll approve it and
43:34
they'll start in July. In the meantime, we are doing a
43:38
lot of work at the mobile Home Park.
43:40
So it was, it's 20 acres, but only 10 of it was developed.
43:46
And so there's 42, I think spaces.
43:50
So we've gotten rid of 11 of them.
43:54
Getting rid of a mobile home is an interesting thing to watch.
43:58
And so we've got. And you got rid of them just
43:59
because they're derelict. They're, they're broken down.
44:02
They need to be disposed of. Or what's the?
44:03
Situation exactly. And we needed space for, we're
44:08
getting 10 or 11 brand new five bedroom, 4 bath mobile homes for
44:16
the program, excuse me, which will be, you know, dispersed and
44:22
amongst all the rest of them. And so there were 16 I think I
44:26
already rented. We're redoing 8 of them and then
44:33
and then as people move out, we'll redo the rest of them.
44:37
So we'll have our first new tenants that started with us
44:42
moving in I think tomorrow, February 1st.
44:49
But in the meantime, we've cleared out the other 10 acres
44:52
that was there and we're have built a road, a road all the way
44:57
around it. We're going to make that into an
44:59
RV park. Like I was mentioning all the
45:01
people next door that work there and at Highlands, one of the
45:05
things that some of them get or a lot of them get is a $98 a day
45:11
per diem for housing. So a lot of them are taking
45:14
that, buying some sort of travel trailer, RV or whatever and
45:18
using that money to pay it off. But the closest place to even
45:21
keep one of those is like 30 miles away.
45:24
So our idea is we're going to do that, help ease their problem,
45:30
but it'll also help sustain our program by bringing some other
45:34
revenue sources, which was part of the plan originally.
45:38
So that's going along well. That should actually be open
45:42
probably March 1st. And then we're doing one other
45:47
exciting thing up there. We're doing a pilot program
45:51
within this program for the program, like the original
45:56
request was for things that will help with substance abuse and
46:02
behavioral health issues that are non pharmaceutical related.
46:08
And so I have a friend here in Florida who opened a sober
46:14
living in his backyard. I guess it is, but it's it's
46:17
really based along cold plunge. Have you heard about that?
46:21
I know it's been like a, you know, it's been a big trend
46:24
recently. People are getting garbage cans.
46:27
Put it all there, you know, get cold in.
46:30
Yeah, it's supposed to release all sorts of endorphins and, you
46:34
know, feel good chemicals and yeah, kind of be a natural sort
46:36
of antidepressant. Right.
46:38
And I'll be honest, when I first saw it, I thought it was a
46:41
little goofy and I I was like, OK, well, yeah, we should all go
46:45
in and yeah, I don't, I can't think it's going to change the
46:48
world. However, my since actually going
46:51
and seeing a bunch of things, he has these geometric domes that
46:56
he builds and then inside it's a sauna.
46:59
So it gets up to about 120 degrees.
47:01
So he's got exact protocols, but you know, basically you go in
47:05
and you get really hot and then all of them are a little bit
47:08
different. One of them's got like in the
47:10
floor, there's barrels that you open up and then you get in them
47:15
for the cold plunge. There's ones with a pool that's
47:18
sort of you walk in like a zero entry.
47:20
So they're all a little bit different, but then you go in
47:22
the water, in the cold water, as long as you can stand it and you
47:25
get out and you repeat that. So I've read a lot about it
47:30
since talking to him and a lot of different studies.
47:33
And it does seem, I don't know, I understand that it resets your
47:37
nervous system. And you know, a lot of, I think
47:42
almost all anxiety and behavioral health and substance
47:46
abuse sort of begin there with, with your nervous system, if you
47:51
will. So I can see the logic behind it
47:54
for sure. So we're going to use that as
47:57
number one another revenue source and a job for the people
48:00
to work at, you know, sort of to open to the public, but also
48:03
we're going to keep track of their their use of it and their
48:09
progression and how to see how things go.
48:11
So I'm really. Is there enough of a population
48:14
nearby that you think could support the use of this?
48:17
Well, you know, we're going to have 50 clients, you know, at
48:20
any given time, you know, maybe 60.
48:23
We have 50 beds right now for sure We're redoing, we're
48:29
redoing 8 or 9 of them. So if they don't get we'll fill
48:33
those up too. They're a little bit small.
48:35
I think those are three bedrooms.
48:36
But and those people, the goal will be to have them there for
48:40
90 days to a year and sort of help them get back into the
48:43
community. And my goal E Camden is a, I
48:48
think there's 900 people that live in East Camden.
48:51
And so I would like to see, you know, a lot of these people get
48:54
back into the community and stay there and build small businesses
48:58
and, you know, build up the community.
49:00
Camden, the city right next door has a population of about 10,000
49:05
and maybe it was 15 years ago, the population was around 15,
49:09
close to 16, and a paper mill closed.
49:13
And so, so the town town sort of went backwards, has been going
49:17
backwards for a while, but there's a lot of room I think to
49:19
build it back up. So, so yeah.
49:22
So I'm hoping these people stick around afterwards.
49:25
So you brought this up earlier about the challenges in
49:31
different kinds of care environments of finding good
49:35
folks to work with you, retaining them, recruiting them.
49:38
You guys are now open in multiple states, multiple
49:41
locations, and this is all under you.
49:45
This is all under your umbrella. These aren't, you know,
49:47
independent franchises. I'm kind of curious what you
49:51
guys have tried and have seen success with to find good folks.
49:56
Then once you find them, hold on to them in, in, you know, an
49:59
industry where there's, you know, traditionally a little bit
50:02
of turnover. Yeah, that has certainly been a
50:06
challenge. So I think #1 being OK with
50:11
turnover. I know a lot of people don't
50:13
like that. And maybe it's maybe it's the
50:16
wrong way to look at things. But I would rather have somebody
50:20
who doesn't want to be here, isn't going to be around, isn't
50:22
really dedicated to what we're doing, and doesn't sort of, you
50:25
know, see things in the same way that we do and doesn't want to
50:29
work in that way. I'd rather just know sooner
50:32
rather than later. And I know Peter used to say, I
50:36
think the Ross Perot actually he worked for used to say this, but
50:39
eagles don't flock. You have to find them one at a
50:41
time. And so, so, you know, I, I think
50:46
that's hard, but I think for me what it's been is, you know,
50:50
having a relationship with people.
50:54
Also finding people that may haven't been in this business
50:57
before, I think is helpful because they don't already
51:01
either have bad habits or, you know, just a different way of,
51:04
of looking at things. You know, when we worked in
51:07
those buildings, the private pay buildings, when I first started
51:10
in New York, there wasn't the word no, like we don't do that
51:15
doesn't didn't exist. So if we didn't do it, we had
51:18
to, we would find somebody who did and then be like, yeah,
51:21
here's, you know, here's who we have who does it sort of thing.
51:24
Because, you know, these people were, you know, these people are
51:29
used to not being told no, I guess.
51:31
And what I found is on the sort of pendulum of whatever you call
51:36
it, of like people on the very high end wealth are very
51:41
demanding and entitled. And the people on the very other
51:45
end are also demanding and entitled.
51:47
So I think it's a continuum that must meet very quickly
51:50
thereafter. But we kept that, you know,
51:53
through even when we're working in these Medicaid places, like,
51:56
yeah, if you, if you ask us, we'll do it or I'll find the
51:59
answer for you, 'cause I don't know with Google, it's not
52:02
really like I can figure it out. I just, but there are other
52:05
places like, you know, people come in and they're like, Oh
52:08
yeah, we don't do that. And I would hear them on the
52:11
phone and be like, wait, what do you mean we don't do that?
52:13
Of course we do that. Or we can figure it out and then
52:15
be like, well, I've worked at three other places.
52:18
None of them did it. Kind of like the two O 2
52:20
building. Of course we can do that in the
52:22
2O2 building and then, OK, what's the 2O2 building?
52:25
Let's let's figure it out and put the pieces together
52:27
afterwards. That Tim, that Tim lady I was
52:30
telling you about earlier, one of the first times he talked to
52:32
me, he said that they needed lactation nurses and they're
52:36
having a really hard time. And if I could do that, like,
52:38
you know, the big bosses would be real impressed.
52:41
And I was like, oh, what are you talking about?
52:42
We have 3 or 4 lactation nurses. I was just talking about it
52:46
yesterday with somebody. And so then I called Lorna.
52:49
I might have gone home. We actually lived in the same
52:52
apartment in New York for a long time and said, like, so what's a
52:56
lactation consultant and lactation?
52:59
And anyway, now I know what it is.
53:02
And we went and found two people that could do it.
53:05
Ready fire aim. I like it.
53:08
Yeah. Phillip, I've just got one more
53:09
question for you. But before I ask it, I want to
53:11
do 2 things. First of all, for everybody
53:13
listening today, I know that you like today's content.
53:15
Phillip has been a great guest today.
53:17
Please hit the like, share, follow, subscribe button on your
53:19
favorite podcast app so you continue getting great content
53:22
like this. Phillip, I also want to let
53:24
people know the best way to get in touch with you or to continue
53:27
to follow your story. What would that be?
53:30
Oh jeez, I guess give me a call or e-mail me.
53:35
Our website is independence care dot pro.
53:39
We're not big on social media. I think we have one, but I
53:44
couldn't tell you what. I couldn't tell you what it is.
53:47
So independence care dot pro. That's that's a good I.
53:50
Think Elon, I think Elon Musk said if, if it doesn't make your
53:54
product better, don't spend any time on it.
53:56
And I'm not sure how US telling the world how great we are via
54:00
social media is making us any better.
54:01
So so but anyway, or you can e-mail me Philip Buyer at
54:05
Independence care dot pro. Great.
54:08
We'll include those links in the show notes for folks.
54:10
So last question for you, Philip.
54:12
I'm curious to hear about a serious challenge that you've
54:14
overcome, what that was like getting through it and some
54:16
lessons that you learned. Serious challenge?
54:23
Well. Something personal,
54:25
professional, maybe a comment? Yeah, no, I suppose.
54:28
I suppose I have a bunch, but I have been sober for 15 years and
54:37
four months and four days. I think it would be.
54:41
So, not that I'm still carrying, but back when I first lived in
54:46
New York, I, well, actually I'm going back before that.
54:50
I don't know how much time we have, but I was adopted.
54:56
And so I was adopted by my mother's cousin.
54:59
A long story. My biological father was in jail
55:03
10 years before I was born, and my mother and my biological
55:08
mother and him met in a Coed prison in Massachusetts.
55:12
Classic American love story. And and so I was born and my mom
55:19
was in prison. They let her out to go have the
55:21
baby. I was born addicted to heroin.
55:25
I'm sure that was a big struggle.
55:26
I don't really remember much of it.
55:27
But so then my mom got her act together, got out of jail.
55:31
But my dad was in prison for first degree murder.
55:34
He had gotten life without parole.
55:36
He's 21. I think he was driving a getaway
55:39
car for a couple of his friends who went inside to rob a
55:44
convenient a drug store. And it was a local neighborhood
55:49
thing in Jamaica Plain, Boston. And so they knew that these two
55:53
old guys work there and they thought they would just be
55:56
using. Turns out one of the old guy's
55:58
nephew stepped in for him and swung him up at the guys and
56:02
they shot him. And anyway, so my dad, who's
56:06
young and I guess a little stubborn, wouldn't plead guilty
56:09
or anything because, well, he didn't kill anybody.
56:11
And so why should he, you know, plead guilty of first degree
56:14
murder. And then he got a life in
56:16
prison. And they used to have furloughs
56:18
back in Massachusetts. I don't know if you remember
56:22
when Michael Dukakis ran for president, there was a guy named
56:26
Willie Horton who had gotten out on one of those furloughs and I
56:29
think gone to South Carolina and raped a lady.
56:33
So it came up in one of the presidential debates.
56:36
And very shortly thereafter, furloughs were cancelled.
56:40
So, so I used to see him up until I was probably 4 or 5
56:45
outside of outside of prison. And then I went to live in New
56:50
Jersey with my mom's cousin. We, she was going to be back in
56:55
like a couple of weeks. She just had to get some things
56:57
in order. And then I saw her, I think when
57:00
I was 38, next time or something like that, at my grandmother's
57:04
funeral. So she didn't come back.
57:06
So my sister, my oldest sister and I went and went to New
57:11
Hampshire to live with Anne and Peter, the people I call my
57:14
parents now and then. Yeah, so I grew up.
57:19
So then I grew up in New Hampshire from there, sort of.
57:22
I talked the whole thing with my dad.
57:24
I would talk to him for a while. And then as I got older, I
57:26
really didn't. And sort of interesting Side
57:29
Story, in 2000, he got out of jail for about 18 months.
57:33
They lower court Massachusetts overturned his conviction and
57:38
ordered a new trial because of jury instruction.
57:42
I guess they compared reasonable doubt to the moral certainty of
57:46
getting pregnant or having a child.
57:49
And that was right before Roe versus Wade where you can get an
57:52
abortion and I don't know. So they overturned it.
57:55
He got out of jail, was out of jail for 18 months, you know,
57:58
had a job, a bank account, car stayed out of trouble. him and I
58:05
spent a lot of time together during that time.
58:08
I was I was in my early 20s and I was angry at my parents that
58:13
adopted me and I was angry at my parents that left me.
58:15
And I was just angry at I was just angry at everybody.
58:20
And but I'm also sort of I'm not out like I'm not outwardly angry
58:25
at people. So I think I took it out on
58:27
myself mostly. And anyway, so 18 months later
58:31
he had to go back to court. And then they said the Supreme
58:35
Court re overturned it. And I remembered Shawshank
58:39
Redemption was had, had been out at that point.
58:42
And I was like, so we going to meet by a boat in Mexico or
58:45
how's this going to work? And he, and they gave him a week
58:50
to turn himself in and give his affairs in order.
58:52
And he's like, no, I'm just going to go back and, you know,
58:55
keep doing the next right thing and eventually it'll work out.
58:59
And he went back in 2001 and then he didn't get out again.
59:09
He ended up getting out in 20, 2020, February of 2020 on a
59:12
compassionate release from Massachusetts.
59:14
They had finally changed some of the laws and he he had diabetes.
59:19
So he had both of his feet halfway amputated and one of his
59:23
fingers. He had like 18 heart attacks and
59:28
held before he died. And so he was a he's a type 1
59:30
diabetic. He was so he wasn't going
59:35
anywhere. And it was just, you know, it
59:36
was liberal. The state, as Massachusetts,
59:38
gets the reputation for dealing with some of those people who
59:42
would insist that he was a danger to people and that anyway
59:47
it was difficult. So then he he got out, he went
59:52
to go live with his brother. COVID happened.
59:54
So he was basically stuck there. And then he finally got to go
1:00:00
live on his own for maybe about a month.
1:00:02
And then his brother found him had an insulin incident.
1:00:06
And so he had to go to a nursing home.
1:00:09
And he had grown up in Boston. You know, anybody that still is
1:00:12
part of his life lived in Boston.
1:00:14
And they couldn't find a nursing home to take him because of his
1:00:17
background. So he ended up going to a
1:00:21
nursing home out in Western Massachusetts and dying very
1:00:23
shortly thereafter. So that was, that was
1:00:27
unfortunate. But he was, he was a really, he
1:00:32
was a really great guy in a lot of ways and just the most
1:00:36
optimistic person I've ever met. Everything was, I was just going
1:00:41
to be OK. And anyway, so I had a lot of
1:00:46
those feelings in my early 20s, I guess is what I was getting
1:00:49
AT. And so I, so I, you know, as far
1:00:55
as drinking goes, like I, you know, I didn't, I wasn't
1:00:58
somebody, I was somebody who when I drank like I didn't know
1:01:01
when it was going to stop because you know, it's never,
1:01:04
there's an A saying once too many 1000 is not enough.
1:01:08
And I really had, I really buy into that.
1:01:13
And so when I got to New York, you know, one of the things I
1:01:18
did was find a friend who liked to drink and, and, and hang out.
1:01:24
So the first year I was there, you know, I, it didn't seem like
1:01:29
a problem. I didn't really, you know, get
1:01:30
up, go to work, blah, blah. And then, then we had our first
1:01:34
child, Thaddeus in September of 2008.
1:01:39
And so the first year of his life, you know, as far as
1:01:45
drinking goes, just to keep with that, you know, there it really
1:01:48
wasn't too much. And then some crazy story
1:01:51
happened in June and I missed some planes.
1:01:55
It was just, it was embarrassing.
1:01:57
Like I, you know, I started to do some things that were just
1:01:59
stupid. And so one day my wife came home
1:02:03
and said, listen, I'm taking Thaddeus and I'm going to going
1:02:07
to Massachusetts and you can figure shit out and give me a
1:02:11
call. And so I, I immediately called
1:02:15
my best friend to Massachusetts and told him he should come down
1:02:18
because we were going to have a great time for three days.
1:02:22
And then my second call was to my psychiatrist, who I had
1:02:26
explored sobriety, I suppose, in the, in the past.
1:02:29
And he always said if there's any time like I wanted to go, he
1:02:34
had a place for me. So I called him and I went to
1:02:38
this place called High Watch Farm up in Connecticut, which I
1:02:42
think it was. It was founded by Bill Wilson.
1:02:44
He's got it started AA, and it was I think the first rehab that
1:02:50
it was focused on the 12 steps. So I ended up going there for 28
1:02:57
days and that changed my life. I can see that there's a lot of
1:03:09
pain there. I mean, that's a lot of heavy
1:03:11
stuff that that happened to you when you were younger and you
1:03:15
had. I don't even care on behalf of
1:03:17
it. And it sounds like you were
1:03:22
saying that, you know, there was a lot of anger there, but you
1:03:24
weren't outwardly angry at other people.
1:03:27
So you kind of turned that in on yourself.
1:03:29
And that led to the drinking. And you found yourself kind of
1:03:39
going down a path that wasn't good.
1:03:41
You had a, you had a family, you had a wife and a kid.
1:03:45
And fortunately your your psychologist, your psychiatrist
1:03:49
said, hey, I've got a place I can help you.
1:03:53
So you went to this place and changed your life, was able to
1:03:56
help get you back on track, give you a new lease on life?
1:04:06
Yeah. And then when I go back to work,
1:04:08
Peter made me, I think I made myself.
1:04:12
I gave myself a title, special assistant to the president.
1:04:15
I wasn't really allowed to do anything unless, unless maybe,
1:04:19
yes, specifically. And so I actually spend a lot of
1:04:22
time making plans for the future and sort of sketching things
1:04:26
out. And sometimes there was a lot.
1:04:29
It was very helpful, but I really had to earn my way back,
1:04:32
I guess, is what I'm saying. And that took a while, but even
1:04:39
after 15 1/2 years, sometimes I, you know, still suffer the
1:04:43
consequences of it. But look at where you are now.
1:04:51
Oh, you've got a family, got a successful business, you've been
1:04:55
clean for over 15 years. It's got to feel good.
1:05:00
Oh, no, yeah, no. Amazing.
1:05:01
I no, I would say like, you know, talk about regrets, like,
1:05:05
you know, I wouldn't or people say, oh, what would you change?
1:05:08
My son actually asked me about the other day and I wouldn't
1:05:13
change anything because then I wouldn't be here.
1:05:15
And I like being here and I like what we're doing and that like I
1:05:18
love my family. And so, yeah, things are good.
1:05:22
It's really, it's really been a blessing.
1:05:24
And I guess that's part of, I don't know, I, I feel a real
1:05:29
connection to these people we're working with in Arkansas, Even
1:05:32
the people that we, I mean, the people we haven't even met yet
1:05:34
that are going to be our clients.
1:05:35
But just like there's 32 kids that live in this mobile Home
1:05:39
Park and a lot of them have some sad stories themselves.
1:05:43
And so I can see myself and some of them and I can see us, you
1:05:47
know, just helping our clients with the community as a whole
1:05:51
makes me excited to be able to do that.
1:05:54
That's neat. That's so cool when your heart's
1:05:57
in an even stronger place like that.
1:05:59
It's driving, obviously, you know, the business side of
1:06:02
things. The numbers have to work out,
1:06:04
but I have to imagine there's an extra incentive to get out of
1:06:08
bed every morning because you know that you're helping folks
1:06:10
that have been through some rough stuff like yourself.
1:06:15
Phil, it's a powerful story. I, I really appreciate you
1:06:19
sharing it with us today. I appreciate you being a guest
1:06:21
on the Inspired Stories podcast. Thank you.
1:06:24
Oh thank you, I was trying to live up to the name.
1:06:27
I hope I got close. You hit, you hit it out of the
1:06:31
park, man, folks, that's a that's a wrap on another and a
1:06:36
very powerful episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
1:06:39
Thanks for being with us today.