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Helping Young Adults with Mental Health Issues with Peer Specialist, Mardi Daley · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we conscious conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's, Roxanne Durgesh.
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How are you today?
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Thanks for tuning in again.
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This week, I have a a young, lovely young woman that I met in Toronto.
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Goodness.
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It's been about 2 weeks ago now at, roundtable, a mental health that where we we were, asked
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as, basically subject matter experts to discuss inclusivity and diversity in the workplace.
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And this is something, that will be, the report will probably put out, I think, about a year
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from now, for recommendations to work environments across Canada.
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So, Marty, thanks again for, coming on.
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I I I stuck Marty aside and asked her to come on and because she has an expertise working
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with, youth and especially, in the area of marginalized youth.
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So, Marty, tell us a little bit about, about what you've done so then we're gonna kinda jump
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into your story.
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Ah, okay.
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What I've done so far.
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So this particular part of my story started in 2015.
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When I began as a peer support worker.
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So what that is is someone who identifies with lived experience of other of either mental
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health or homelessness in my context, to work with other young people in order to role model,
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behaviors, paths of recovery, and also give a social relationship rather than just a
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clinically based one.
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So when that started, I was placed on a research project called the Housing Outreach
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Project Collaborative, and it was a pilot based in Toronto where we studied 30 youth over 6
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months.
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It was called the longitudinal study, who had just been housed, between 1365 days.
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So it was interesting about that was we were giving them a menu of support.
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So they had, access to mental health supports, peer support, which is what I did.
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Case management and, as well as social, recreational support.
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So which was a bit innovative in terms of a research project.
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So this project actually was the catalyst for the work that I do right now.
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And what became of that was we saw that young people were accessing everything, but peer
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support was new in terms of a support for mental health.
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And so how could we make it more, more tasty?
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You know, how could we bring them in?
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And so the idea that came around was to have a project, for the young people, to engage and
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talk about their experiences of homelessness and deliver a product to other young people
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based on that.
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So the main question I had them focus on was, what would you have liked to known 5 years ago
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or 10 years ago before all of this started?
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What information was missing for you, in terms of resources, in terms of support, in terms of
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coping skills.
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So okay.
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So your background, did you go to school for you did you go school for social work where you
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did you just kinda your path was you you're a young, obviously, you're quite young.
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If if anybody can that can see her, she's very young.
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And so she's obviously working in an arena which she fits into in her age demographic.
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Did you go to school and decide you wanted to work with this, or was it something that you
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kinda felt a falling along the way?
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Things have a funny way of coming full circle.
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I So when I was in high school, I thought I wanted to go down this path and, you know,
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conversations came up about are you gonna burn out from this work?
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You know, it's gonna pay your bills so many questions.
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So I want what I thought was the safe route.
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And that was political science and art history completely unrelated.
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And I think I had that leverage because I did scholarships for university.
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So I took advantage of being able to kind of study my interests instead of what I thought my
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career would be.
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And in my 3rd year, that's when I started accessing clinical services for my mental
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health, in school.
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And from there, I fell into this thing called peer support, which wasn't well defined.
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And have emerged, almost 5 years later defining it for the field.
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Tell me what you thought about the supports.
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I've done a a fair amount of, work with universities.
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Tell me how, I mean, you don't even have to identify the university, obviously, that you
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want to, but anybody that knows you would know what you're talking about.
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You know, no need to say the name.
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How did you find that intervention as a young person at that level for mental health?
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It was not what I expected it to be in universities.
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The focus is getting you back to your academic They're not there to cater to long term mental
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health support.
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So I was surprised to find out that they took a short term solutions based approach, which
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essentially what they're doing is trying to figure out, okay, what exactly can we help you
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with right now?
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And what I found was my issues were far beyond their scope.
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Unfortunately, they were not able to refer me out, and I come to understand that this is a
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very common experiences for students, which is why they will continue to go to school suffer
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through whatever illness they're, they're going through.
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And a lot of them are international students who
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Mhmm.
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If they stop going school, they'll have to leave the country.
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And when they go back home, they can't deal with those psychological issues.
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So it's really a catch 22 for a lot of students.
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I fell into services only because of people I knew outside of the institution.
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Mhmm.
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So really and I mean, this perspective, and I was, you know, part of a clinical team that
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went into university is that absolutely.
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Right?
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There's a big accommodation arm.
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Right?
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So of course, you have the, you know, IEPs or independent learning plans that a lot of
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students go on.
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And so they kinda make sure that those are kind of tended to which really speaks to keeping
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people in school to your points.
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Not all the pair pressures or if it's, you know, all the the pressures around, things
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like, you're using substances, sexuality, you know, you know, you know, just just the
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everything about related to being away from home too.
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Oftentimes, And I know when I went to university and I was a foreign student, oh my
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goodness.
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Like, talk about thinking I was ready for the world and how really not ready I was for the
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world and all the pressures of academics and all those things.
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So there's a lot of things colliding and the press, some of the pressures that existed exist
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now.
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I know for a fact it not exist, you know, 25, 30 years ago when I went to school.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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There's a lot more pressure, but I think, there's a lot more pressure.
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Like, I definitely wouldn't wanna be, 10 years younger than I am than going through it right
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now.
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For sure.
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But I think as well, the access to communication, the access to information has
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made such a ripple to the point where people are upset because they know that there can be
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more done, you know, for them.
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They're upset because they know that they're being shortchanged by the system.
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And the only reason we can feel that way is because we have awareness So it's definitely a
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stepping stone in the process.
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So so let's talk about peer support.
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I mean, and, you know, in my kinda, career, I've had I've had various touch points with
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peer support.
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But from your perspective, like, let's think about when you were in university and kinda how
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you kinda fell into or got, attached to some type of peer support what existed, and let's
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then get into this study that you you kind of went into.
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And let's I'd really like to know First of all, what is different and what is needed for young
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people today to ready?
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What's the hook?
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I guess.
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I have I I'm I'm thinking very unipolar.
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I'm sure there's diverse things that could come, but kinda tell me what existed when you
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were there.
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And then bring us up to speed with a project that you worked on.
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Sure.
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So, when I first started accessing, mental health supports, we had I think 2 or 3 peer
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supporters, in the department that I was a part of, and it was a very informal role.
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So you would I found after I was hired what that involved was showing up to groups or the
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drop in, just trying to being a point person for new people who would come in, give them
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some information and, just kinda be a sounding board for questions that people had.
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So you would come in, you'd sign your timesheet, you'd get paid in cash.
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So essentially, you're, a volunteer, getting an honor area.
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So that looks very, very different 5 years later at the same place.
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Now we are on payroll where we are considered full staff full, members of staff.
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So we go to staff meetings.
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We contribute to the service plan.
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We have access to clients and client case files.
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So we're basically in line with the caseworkers, with with a completely different
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specialty.
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In terms of the issues that young people are facing if I had to pick 1 and why this comes
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into play is, social isolation.
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So even in this almost the topia of information that's out there.
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All you can do what people end up doing is going online and reading firsthand accounts.
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What does this feel like?
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What does this, sound like going through a day in the life of someone with x, y, and zed
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illness?
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That's not a real human to talk to and ask these questions too.
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Peer support comes in very handy, for people experiencing, mental distress when you're
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considering something like medication.
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If you've never been medicated before, you can read all you want.
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You might read horror stories.
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And when you talk to someone and ask What were you considering when you thought about taking
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medication for the first time?
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You gotta you'll have a completely different response where you can judge someone's
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authenticity, where you can take them being genuine and think that they really do care
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about the outcome of this choice for you.
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And this is the value of care support when you hear the number one issue is that we're all
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connected, but there's no social socializing that's actually happening on a face to face
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basis.
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So why okay.
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So like I often say, you know, I'm the older generation than you.
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People pick up the phone and then oftentimes I know with my friends or my family, I'll say,
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oh, I don't wanna don't wanna sit on the phone when we just get together.
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Right?
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Great.
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And that really was the way I grew up in a lot of ways.
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Mind mind you, you know, I know so much has shifted.
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And the modus operandi today is for younger people.
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You know, I w I used to see it with my son, as he became a teenager, and they'd be in the same
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room, and they'd be, like, talking to each other, and they sitting to, but they're on
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their devices.
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And I'm like, okay, guys.
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What are you doing?
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Yeah.
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And and they'd be like, well, you know, so and so's upstairs and you know, this person's here,
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and we're all kinda playing the same game.
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And I'm like, well, are you playing?
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Right?
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And so is that would you say that if you were to look at socialization, because I as we know,
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we're all mammals.
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We need to connect We need, as a psychotherapist, as a consultant, as a coach,
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what I know is someone could be in mental distress, but all it takes oftentimes is for
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them to modulate their emotions sitting across from me or someone else Right.
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That just allows
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them to bring down their space to that other's pushing space to just connect, and that's not
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happening as much.
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Right.
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I completely understand what you're saying.
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I think the gamer's context is very interesting because, even coming out of my circumstances, I
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loved online communities, when they were still very new, when people are still very, scared of
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them, you know, because you can't see the face on the other side.
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And I took comfort in that as, like, a tween as a teen, having no one to talk to about my
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circumstance I thought like, oh, well, here's a community of people who will never even get to
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touch my life in a meaningful way.
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You know, I can talk to them and at least have someone listen, right, when it comes to gaming,
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I think it's a great way for people who do already suffer, from struggling to socialize in
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person with people for feeling a bit isolated regardless of technology due to whatever
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circumstances, I think it's great alternative and people dismiss online communities too
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easily.
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I find one.
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You can find one for literally anything.
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Right?
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There's one out there for everyone.
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In terms of the more mainstream folks who can be in the same room and looking at their
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devices, but not communicating.
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This is more of an issue because you have a relationship that's already existing with the
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person in front of you.
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It's not, conditional, I guess, you could say.
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And to to be cut off from that, intimacy.
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It is a type of intimacy, to do an activity together.
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I guess the part even myself I struggle with is what what's the difference between those two
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things?
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Doing an activity together online Yes.
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It's cool.
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Share electronically, but what what is hard about going outside about doing something not
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with your screens?
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You know, I find with the young people I work with that aren't, aren't on the extremes of the
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margins, you know, like more like teams.
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They come together.
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They play together.
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What I see them doing is making videos together.
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And I thought, oh, that's that's pretty cool.
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You know, they have to talk in communicate before they get on that video.
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Right?
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So maybe there is something there.
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For myself, I would find that completely awkward, but this is it.
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Like, things are changing really fast.
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So even though the technology is is taken just to a space where I can decide what level of
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intimacy I want.
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I often say when I was growing up, you know, it was kinda like you got, go outside and play.
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Right?
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And then between your siblings and who was in your neighborhood, guess what?
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Your your mom's like, why are you inside?
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And you'd go back outside again.
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Right.
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But obviously with the shift in things, and it's it's not just one variable.
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It's not just online.
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It's it's the fact that people, you know, obviously, the structure of the family, what's
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conventional, who's home, you know, there's so many variables that are happening all at once.
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And then, of course, know, we're living in bigger cities.
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We're not as connected.
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Just a lot of things.
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Right.
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But the kids that, you know, and not for me to say other than I could tell you what I've seen
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in my practice over the years is people are looking for connection.
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Yes.
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I think, if I adds something to it.
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The way that technology operates now if I shift the context to marginalization, you know, when
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I was in high school and cell phones were becoming a bit more advanced and, you had two
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screens instead of one screen, you know, and it wasn't just T Nine texting.
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It became a form of social isolation.
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It became a form of, you don't have this.
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Therefore, you can't participate.
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For me, I found it really difficult because there were times where you know, you missed an
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in an invite or a change of plans because everybody had sent a text, but you didn't have
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a phone or you didn't have a phone that was active.
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So you couldn't be a part of that experience.
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And it's an oversight.
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It's something that happens, but it still hurts.
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It's still very hurtful to feel like you're forgotten.
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So what I see now when I talk to, you know, people in their mid twenties or a bit younger
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is that having a phone is almost completely necessary to having a social life to
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connection.
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And if you take it out of the urban context and you go somewhere remote like Thunder Bay, you
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know, if you don't have the cell phone, you have nothing.
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You cannot access a single thing when you have telehealth, you know, when you have all these
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alternative services that are based in technology if people don't have access to
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phones, let alone phone service, and data.
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You know, they're experiencing heightened social isolation and possibly, like, something
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that could affect their physical health as well.
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Interesting.
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I hadn't thought of that from a social isolation perspective.
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Right?
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Do you think of, you know, our technology is connection but really in of itself because
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you're seeing the mode of connected has shifted, right, whereas when I was a teenager,
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I grew up in the islands and, you know, it'd be like, okay.
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You were lucky if you had a telephone to begin with.
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That's another that's another time.
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But what we often did is we would we would ask because we would make a point of trying to say,
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oh, by the way, I'm having this get together or having this party.
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So we were still doing it from a from a very kind of connected kind of way.
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So we go to technology.
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We shift it.
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It's a positive thing.
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Obviously, we have globalization now, which is phenomenal, but in an in in that perspective,
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there's all the negative that's happening to these younger people.
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Like, you're you're talking to, you know, marginalized communities in Thunder Bay, North
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Bay, all those types of things.
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And those kids are having equally the same kind of concerns as kids in, you know, developed
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environments like Vancouver, Toronto, all those things.
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But they're not having any
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people from Thunder Bay because I've had the opportunity to go up quite a few times.
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And the issues again from Toronto and beyond are very different.
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And because the the primary community up there is indigenous.
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Right?
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You have kids with no access to a phone, or maybe they do, but the phone is done.
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They wanna go to the store, and the store clerk discriminates against them based on their
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ethnicity, which is indigenous.
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So all of a sudden, you have amplified, disengagement, you know, from the system and
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amplified isolation and amplified complexity.
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For people that might be thirteen or 14 years old, you know, that's a lot.
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And it I don't have a solution to that.
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You know, but it's something that I think we do need to be more mindful of and more aware of,
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in one panel that was a part of a young person said we need to have phones first.
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Forget about housing first.
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We need phones first.
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And I thought, well, jeez.
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That's a that makes a lot of sense, actually.
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Because if I'm connected and I'm able to cope internally by developing it, you know, that
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internal space, I call it internal landscape.
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Right?
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Like, I mean, you know, I often used to say to my son when he would say I'm bored.
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And he said, mom, I'm bored.
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And I'd say, you know, what's that thing attached to your neck?
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And he'd go, what?
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I go, that's your brain.
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Right?
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He goes, yeah.
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I said, well, why don't you go use that?
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And he go, alright.
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I need, you know, meander off and figure something out.
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So connection is really, you know, when you kind of the the when you think of the, you
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know, the shows like 13 reasons why, I'm here in Niagara, And we've had unfortunately massive
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suicides and a lot of drug doses of young people, which is showing us that There is that
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need.
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There is that need for connection that all of us have distressing times.
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I mean, if we Yeah.
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People, you know, I often say to people when I talk or I I I see them.
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Look.
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All of us have bad thoughts and good thoughts.
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That's life.
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But it's what kind of when you learn how to deal with or figuring out the support systems
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in order to get what you need to get through those tough times that allows you to build that
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resilience.
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Yep.
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So let's talk a little bit about the project you you you started to work on and some of
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those key indicators that you found that young people are seeing that they need, the ones that
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are a bit more marginalized.
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And you said you asked them a question.
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I love that question.
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What is it with that you would have liked to know 5 years previous?
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Mhmm.
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What what was some of the what was some of the things that people were telling you that we're
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we're seeking assistance.
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So because the project was based in housing and housing supports, the question it was seeking
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to answer is why do young people that have been chronically homeless end up homeless again
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within 1 year of housing what factors are contributing to that.
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So one of the things is aging out, you know, in a system where you're considered a youth until
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you're 25, some place to say 29, you have a gap that exists for people between 2429.
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What's happening to them right now?
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I couldn't tell you because I just became a part of that gap and it is hard.
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All of a sudden now, at least in Ontario, you know, we have to pay for prescription
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medication.
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Some of us need that in order to sustain a regular life.
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So learning about the resources that are out there when you hit that age, that's something
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that came up.
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Emotional regulation, looking to oneself to ask, you know, what is it that I do wanna do
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now that I'm trying to get my life on track?
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What happens now that I have to let all these people go that were part of my old life so I
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can move on into a bit more stability.
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How do I deal with the trauma of what I went through?
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And most importantly, because of this concept of homelessness.
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What happens when I finally have a home?
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What is a home?
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You know?
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And this question is so much more layered than we give it credit for.
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And it's one of the issues that's coming up with housing first is that housing first is
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great because you're giving someone four walls.
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What within those four walls needs to happen?
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For someone to feel comfortable to feel human, to feel connected to community.
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Right?
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So what, what the young people decided to do was in the spirit of something that we call by
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youth for you.
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So I'm a young person, leading other young people.
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These young people decided that they wanted to create a survival guide, in order to capture
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that experience of feeling lost.
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And moving into stability, when it comes to housing.
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So they put recipes in it.
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They put, Crosswords like activities.
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They put some coping skills to deal with tough times.
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They put bucket lists to start generating that idea of hope and moving on.
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They put, motivational quotes, pictures to color in.
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And all of that was based on things that they enjoyed, things that they learned, that they
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wanted, and things that keep them busy.
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So they know that when you're in your house and there's nothing to do.
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That's when the isolation begins.
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You know, that's when you say, okay.
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Well, I don't know what's in my neighborhood.
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You look at that list that says, check out the resources in your neighborhood and go, okay.
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Maybe I should do that.
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You know, it's just little prompts along the way.
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Wow.
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That sounds amazing.
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Right?
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Because you know, joking around, like, you know, when you have the guidance, like, I, you
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know, like I speak to talking about my son and you know, I would say, you know, you you know,
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the, you know, you could go down the street.
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You can go fishing or you can, your friends can kinda up, and you guys can go right on your
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bike, and you can go to Tim Hortons, stuff, you know, a slushy or whatever.
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So it's some of those things that maybe so would would you say that some of these
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merchandise kids was there, and I'm assuming here, Marney.
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So don't I don't know that this is true.
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Was there a lot of trauma an instability in family systems or some some not?
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Some not.
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You know?
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Like, it really depends.
24:48
People leave home for variety of reasons.
24:52
I know my reason for leaving was based in, a continued instability and a continued, feeling
25:00
of unrest, which was how long will I have this roof over my head until I get evicted again or
25:05
until I have to go or until until until until I'm living on edge like that for, you know,
25:10
over 18 years, it really, like, messes you up in some ways.
25:14
And it's okay to say that.
25:16
I would say the reasons, for my young people where varied.
25:19
You know, some people came here as immigrants, and they came by themselves.
25:24
Right?
25:24
That's how they ended up homelessness and getting out of that as you know, an eighteen
25:28
year old, like, that's pretty tough.
25:29
You may not even speak the language.
25:31
Right?
25:32
Who knows why you came?
25:33
You may be a refugee or maybe for more conventional reasons.
25:36
That's one, reason that people don't often consider as, how you became homelessness as
25:42
your trauma attached.
25:44
Probably.
25:45
Right?
25:45
But it's not my scenario.
25:47
Right.
25:47
Right.
25:47
So it could it could be a multitude of reasons.
25:51
So What's the solution?
25:55
Which one?
25:56
The solution to, if I am trying to get connected, like to your point, and I'm getting
26:04
integrated into housing.
26:06
And I've never really kinda lived on my own, And I don't know how to regulate and I get the
26:13
space and, you know, I wanna set up shop.
26:15
Right?
26:15
Like, I can't wait till I have my own little spot and all seems good.
26:19
Well, we know how difficult it is.
26:20
I know when I moved on my own, and I never really truly lived on on my own, and now that I
26:24
think about it, I kinda went from university then got married and did that traditional thing
26:29
that you guys don't do anymore, which is not a bad thing.
26:33
How do those individuals get support just to to maintain, independence without kind of freaking
26:40
out to put it bluntly.
26:43
So I know for myself, I required a lot of unique support.
26:48
So that included having friends to rely on, but it also included my health team, you know,
26:55
having my doctors to fall back on and having medication to help with those things that I
27:01
couldn't do myself.
27:03
What I feel that young people need is really just more support from the system.
27:07
I was talking to someone the other day about why young people struggle to go out there and
27:14
seek support.
27:15
And I just think genuinely, like, in the in the day and time that it is, it's unfair to expect
27:22
young people to come knocking on your door.
27:24
Like, they know the supports are there.
27:25
Just like anyone can look at anything up, but given developmental psychology given, like,
27:31
where they're coming from mistrust in the system, that's let them down so many times for
27:36
them to be in that situation.
27:38
Why would they come knocking on your door?
27:40
You know?
27:41
So part of the housing first for youth solution is these post housing supports.
27:46
Like, this is really where, you will help people thrive because they in order to sustain
27:50
a certain life sell, you need to have employment or at least a, a predictable income,
27:59
let's say.
28:00
You need to know where your nearest resources are.
28:03
You need to have network of support where you're talking about a lot of folks who don't
28:08
have families.
28:09
So where do they get that?
28:10
Right?
28:11
Some people do social groups.
28:12
Some people will do fitness classes.
28:15
Some people just like to be on their own and go about the community there, but to begin to
28:21
muster up that courage to do all those things.
28:24
Like, it is a laundry list to put it lightly of things you need to do to get your life on track
28:31
when you've come out of homelessness.
28:33
Right.
28:33
For sure.
28:34
Because you
28:34
do that on your own.
28:36
And, you know, what we know with the prefrontal cortex with, young adults, it's not fully
28:41
developed on each till age twenty five.
28:43
Right?
28:43
Exactly.
28:43
Formerly, it's not developed.
28:45
So somehow our system and, has to engage young people in a way that's a bit different.
28:52
That's what's happening now.
28:54
I'm gonna see there's some things that are happening now that works.
28:57
Yep.
28:58
And I'm gonna assume there's probably a lot more that doesn't work.
29:01
So what tell me what are some of the things that you would see is not conducive to
29:05
assisting people that have been marginalized, that are trying to reintegrate or just kind of
29:10
get a, again, a foothold just in in kind of mainstream society.
29:14
Sure.
29:15
I think a lot of, services are short term, and that's well intentioned, well intentioned short
29:22
term.
29:22
Support the ideas.
29:23
Okay.
29:24
Use this and then get off of it so that you can move on and build your independence right the
29:30
you we don't know how long people will need these supports to feel comfortable.
29:33
One thing we found in the study was people didn't start to fully engage with the whole
29:38
wrap around service until, almost 6 months until their 6 month intervention.
29:45
So if that's how long it takes to become comfortable, right, than having someone for
29:50
only 6 sessions.
29:51
Like, it's not enough time.
29:53
It's just not enough time.
29:55
Sorry.
29:55
Someone to feel confident enough to move on on their own.
29:59
I think, when it comes to people, under 25, let's call it for the general age of youth, We
30:07
need to look ahead.
30:09
I think sometimes we forget that things are changing ever so quickly.
30:14
And when it comes to the types of employment that are available to people with or without
30:18
education.
30:19
Things are changing for both worlds.
30:21
You know, jobs are getting automated if you're a paralegal, for example, like, the chances of
30:26
your job being automated in the future are quite high.
30:28
Just like if you're a cashier, you know, so in both sides of that, Are these industries
30:34
looking ahead when they're considering employment for people on the margins?
30:38
You know, are they looking at that when they send them to a job training program?
30:42
I don't think so.
30:44
You know?
30:44
So I would challenge those folks to think, how can you unite these two worlds particularly
30:51
with employment because that's the cradle of your well-being, to a certain extent.
30:56
Right?
30:58
Well, that got me so fired up.
30:59
I have to take a breath.
31:02
When it comes to that, what I've heard and what I see is that this concept, this notion of
31:08
empathy has become very valuable, in 2019 and possibly a little bit before now, but
31:15
definitely moving forward empathy is an invaluable skill for all industries, including
31:21
business, in particular, through looking for folks who have that.
31:25
A lot of folks who have that are people that have experienced hardship because they've
31:28
literally gone through the worst.
31:30
So how could they not know what it feels like, especially if they're a customer, you know,
31:35
these types of things.
31:37
My challenge is how can we unite these 2 worlds, the corporate world and then offer
31:42
profit world to benefit young people more because often both have mandates to support
31:47
you.
31:47
We live in Canada that says it has the youth policy.
31:50
But are the systems looking ahead beyond the next 2 years beyond the next, like, 4 years?
31:57
Like, we need to look ahead at least ten.
32:00
You know, to set these folks up because if you're fourteen and you just entered the
32:04
system.
32:05
When you're 24 and you're about to exit, what will it have done for you to make you into a
32:10
healthy adult?
32:11
Right.
32:12
Because, you know, you even hear today, and I'm, you know, that's as your age demographic,
32:16
Marty.
32:16
And I will see people, in my work that will say, you know, I look at all these educated
32:23
people out there, and there's not jobs to support them.
32:27
Even being educated.
32:28
Yes.
32:29
Right?
32:29
And so so gone of the days, you know, in my time, it was like, go to school, get a degree,
32:34
get a good job, buy a house, have the, you know, 2.1 children, and life is good.
32:39
Right?
32:40
That whole concept, you know, it's a different construct today.
32:43
Because people are coming out with degrees, which is now not as valuable because we have
32:49
such so much educated people without the drops to support them.
32:56
So, and, and I'm I'm just kinda telling you from what I've heard, you can tell me from what
33:00
you've seen, also what you experienced.
33:02
And now they're like, okay.
33:03
Well, you want me to go to school.
33:04
Right?
33:04
Yeah.
33:06
Can you assure me that when I get out of school, I'm gonna have you know, employment to
33:11
be able to support the lifestyle that maybe I'm I I think I should be entering into.
33:16
And, unfortunately, that's unless you have a high specialty on your first, but with school,
33:22
that's not happening as much.
33:23
Yep.
33:24
I know when I was doing research, in person research, I guess you could say, trying to
33:30
figure out in particular in fine art, you know, what are the avenues here?
33:34
How do I go about it.
33:36
That the main message that I received is people value your work experience above all of the
33:41
amount of people who said, oh, I have folks that have pursued, like, 3 levels of education
33:45
up to their PhD, but they've only ever had 2 jobs in the industry.
33:49
I will not hire them.
33:51
Right?
33:51
I've had people that have done internships here.
33:54
I trust them fully.
33:55
I've seen their ability to work.
33:57
They have credibility.
33:58
I'm going to hire them.
34:00
So yeah, just to further your point.
34:03
Right?
34:04
And this, if I can bring it back to peer support and this access, it's a huge question
34:12
right now, for people who want to pursue it because it is gaining traction.
34:18
Is how do I find a job in this?
34:20
You know, what's the minimum education?
34:22
And there isn't a minimum formal education a lot of time.
34:25
Usually, it's based on a minimum age or a catchment area, or a area of lived experience.
34:32
So if we take it out of, like, homelessness and mental health, maybe the area of experiences,
34:37
eating disorders.
34:39
You know, that's not my experience, but there are others who do have that So maybe that job
34:44
is more applicable to them.
34:47
But where this comes in is that the jobs available for peer support workers are very
34:55
slim.
34:55
You know, there actually needs to be more funding injected to the permanent structures of
35:00
organizations instead of it just being grant based, in order to give people that security.
35:06
Right?
35:06
It's 2019.
35:07
You can create a job, you know, and jobs are being created that didn't exist 10 years ago,
35:12
20 years ago.
35:13
This is one of them.
35:14
Right?
35:15
But do enough people know about it to invest in that.
35:18
This is where the hardware has to be paid.
35:20
Right.
35:20
And and and economically, that's not where they put their money, you know, in structure, right,
35:25
because, I mean, let's look in the work world of psychology.
35:28
Mhmm.
35:28
You know, those are generally frontline jobs or peer support is maybe even, a primary job to a
35:33
frontline job.
35:34
So the the income may not be commensurate to what we're seeing the outcome should be.
35:39
If if a lot of people gets that are needing support get connected, that need it, they're
35:45
gonna be more viable as you because they're gonna be figuring out things from themselves.
35:50
They're gonna be able to cope more much better than they're gonna be able to and feel better
35:54
about themselves and, you know, be able to be I I wanna be a part of society.
35:59
I want to give back certain things.
36:02
But if we don't give that support on the on the early end, what we're already setting up people
36:07
to fail.
36:08
Yeah.
36:08
And the other part that goes with that is that the support actually goes for the peer worker
36:13
and the person benefiting from them.
36:15
Both are experiencing vicarious support.
36:18
Both are able to create a relationship even if it is a professional relationship.
36:24
It's still something regular.
36:25
It's still something anticipated and hopefully something that both parties are enjoying if
36:30
they're continuing to engage again and again, when it comes to the sector and what they
36:36
invest in, like, what's the price of emotional labor?
36:39
You know, they have that figured out for formal degree areas, but when you're seeing such high
36:44
impact on a on a field that's only just beginning to develop in Canada in particular.
36:52
Right?
36:52
What is the price of emotional labor?
36:54
When I've read reports, it's a lot more than $15 an hour, right, that that's what it
36:59
relegates to quite often just because the person is a youth or because they're coming
37:04
from the margins and the grants are only based in minimum wage that disregards the whole skill
37:10
set outside of school that is extremely valuable.
37:13
But I think it's it's the whole quality of, the basic human quality of connection and empathy.
37:21
Right?
37:21
We're mammals, We need connection.
37:24
All of us do.
37:25
When we, you know, get in the same space, right now, we're connecting.
37:29
I met you, so I feel like I know you.
37:32
I can know you via, video, but it's less than sitting across from you or behind you at an
37:39
event that I spend a day with you.
37:41
I experienced you.
37:42
So I feel like I know you.
37:44
So we have to get back to some basics to allow that connection to occur more organically like
37:50
it used to, right, because it's not happening as easily to your point.
37:54
And young, the youth or the marginalized it happens.
37:58
They're there now.
37:59
So how do we help them?
38:01
And I think it really becomes a bigger systemic issue where we really have to, you know, go to
38:06
the power that be to kind of support that emotional connection, which is very, very
38:12
basic.
38:13
In my opinion, but it's something that's lacking because we're seeing that it's an issue
38:17
with the young with a lot of young people today.
38:19
When I hear about even my little neck of the woods, you know, how many overdoses or suicides
38:25
they are.
38:26
Yeah.
38:27
It's not something that I've ever heard about at that level.
38:30
Before.
38:31
So it's glaringly showing you there's a gaping wound, and we need to address it because if we
38:36
don't address it, it's gonna unfortunately get worse and worse.
38:39
Right.
38:40
You know?
38:42
So for people listening, because I'm sure there's a, you know, a lot of people within
38:46
organizations or, or youth that might wanna want want to learn more, or maybe there's youth
38:54
that wanna help.
38:55
I'm already out there, you know, make a difference or find out more about peer support,
39:00
tell people where, you know, where what you do, where you kinda hang out, if they're wanting to
39:06
either consult with you, maybe organizationally, where they people can reach
39:11
you.
39:13
So, right now, I'm I'm working on developing my business called the Live Experience Lab.
39:20
And the outcome of this in the long term is that it will be a hub for young people and
39:27
people who want to work with young people, to connect on specific areas to ask for young
39:33
adult input and really leverage this thing called youth voice and issues that affect you.
39:40
So right now I've been introducing myself as Marty from everywhere because it seems to be
39:47
the only way to capture that I'm based in Toronto, and work in multiple capacities right
39:55
now, but really what I would like to Build is my consulting practice and helping agencies,
40:02
particularly with the change management that comes in, when employing young people with
40:10
lived experience.
40:12
So where you can find me is daley madidailimardi@gmail.com, or hit me up on
40:22
LinkedIn.
40:23
And those are the best spots right now.
40:25
Well, awesome, Marty.
40:26
Thanks so much for, giving myself and my listeners your time.
40:31
And I think, you know, what I the one pebble that I'm taking away from it then.
40:36
I hadn't thought about it was that connection which has kind of leveraged us to get global is
40:44
actually become is a bit of isocial isolation around, the cell phone.
40:49
And that's the that's the pebble in the rough.
40:51
I hadn't thought about it in the perspective, but, you know, we always think about let's get
40:57
rid of the cell phone.
40:57
Let's have those students put it away.
40:59
Let's Mhmm.
41:01
But really it's not about, fighting it, but it's about accepting it and kind of thinking of
41:07
how is it that we could create new connection based on the era that we're in?
41:11
We're not gonna get rid of this.
41:14
But, you know, trust is something that we have to go back to through the basics, but now we
41:18
have some, I'm gonna say we have different core elements with what it's gonna look like in this
41:22
day and age compared to maybe my time.
41:25
So I I love I like I love that concept and for us to recognize it and to say, okay, this is
41:31
what we have to deal with, but how can we assist young people to recognize that
41:36
connection is possible, but to ask the questions not to assume that we know what
41:42
connection is about for them.
41:45
And to try to kind of organizationally for companies to really think about this.
41:49
You know, what is it that you need to engage?
41:53
People and retain them to even consider them coming to your companies because you might
41:59
engage them initially, but you're not gonna retain them if you don't understand some of the
42:03
things that we're talking about.
42:05
So I think I think that would be valuable for any of the, you know, companies listening today
42:09
to really think about it.
42:10
And to eventually, find Marni on LinkedIn, or through her email address, which will be in the
42:17
in the, drop downs, for the podcast.
42:20
So everyone listening.
42:22
I go back again to it's all about connection.
42:26
And, with young people, we have a service to do.
42:29
We have to think along the frame of what they're telling us and Marty shared so well
42:35
what they're needing and you know, things happen for a reason.
42:39
There's so much positives to being connected, but, in turn, there's been, we know the
42:44
deficits that along with connection.
42:47
Let's not buck the system.
42:48
Just look at the system and see what is needed for us to be more empathetic and connected, to
42:53
the younger population, period.
42:55
And even more so the marginalized population that's younger and to see that what we can use
43:00
and how we can advocate, from, you know, a macro to a micro level from, you know, high up
43:08
all the way to the front line to be able to engage people and and ask the questions about
43:12
what is it that you need to stay connected.
43:15
So thanks again, for being with us and for everyone listening.
43:18
Thanks so much for giving us your time.
43:20
If you're needing anything on me, you know, I'm a mental health and wellness, keynote, and you
43:26
can reach me at Roxanne.
43:28
Take care, and have a great day.
43:30
K.
43:30
Bye, Marty.
43:31
Bye.
43:33
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
43:38
healthy change.
43:39
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
43:46
Durgesh dotcom/blueprint.
43:50
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