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Katie Woolf spoke with Independent Member for Araluen Robyn Lambley · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: If you want to know what's happening on the local
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  Speaker 1: political landscape, Katie Wolf has it covered on three sixty
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  Speaker 1: Every One is Listening Mixed one oh four point nine. Well,
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  Speaker 1: as we know, estimates continue on this week and yesterday
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  Speaker 1: the Police Minister was in the hot seat, with plenty
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  Speaker 1: of questions asked of both the Minister herself and also
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  Speaker 1: the Police Commissioner. Joining me on the line is the
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  Speaker 1: Independent Member for Ara lew And, Robin Lambley. Good morning
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  Speaker 1: to you, Robin.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.
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  Speaker 1: Will Now Robin, the police portfolio was high on the
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  Speaker 1: agenda yesterday with the real focus on those police numbers
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  Speaker 1: and the attrition rate. I know that it was pretty
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  Speaker 1: interesting information around the police retention at ninety five officers
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  Speaker 1: leaving the force in the space of a year. Robin,
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  Speaker 1: the figures sound concerning, but the Police Commissioner said the
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  Speaker 1: commentary around this is well, it's a bit over exaggerated,
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  Speaker 1: to paraphrase him saying that the rate of changing staff
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  Speaker 1: in his organization had really barely changed. What was your
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  Speaker 1: take on that rate of attrition and of people leaving, Well.
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  Speaker 2: Katie, pretty much all the bad news we've played down
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  Speaker 2: as it has been over the last week and a half.
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  Speaker 2: During budget estimates, you'll only get the good news out
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  Speaker 2: of them usually, but look, ninety five police officers leaving.
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  Speaker 2: That's a lot of people, and as the opposition said,
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  Speaker 2: it's a lot of time and energy of money put
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  Speaker 2: into keeping those people recruiting them. I asked the Police
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  Speaker 2: Minister and Police Commissioner why they thought what they attributed
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  Speaker 2: this high attrition rate too, And one of the questions
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  Speaker 2: I specifically asked was the impact of the Constable Zachary
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  Speaker 2: Rolf trial on police morale and the high attrition rate,
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  Speaker 2: and they just completely shut me down. Well, the Minister
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  Speaker 2: did not the Police Commissioner, they didn't want to talk
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  Speaker 2: at about that at all. They just put it down
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  Speaker 2: to people wanting to move into state to be with
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  Speaker 2: their family, No evidence based facts backing that up at all.
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  Speaker 1: Robert, Why did they not want to talk about that?
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  Speaker 1: Why do you think they didn't want to talk about that.
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  Speaker 2: The Minister, I think was probably prepared to some extent
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  Speaker 2: four questions on this subject, although we weren't asking any
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  Speaker 2: for her to comment about the trial at all. It
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  Speaker 2: was just the impact looking at the policies and procedures
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  Speaker 2: and the operations of the police and how this major event,
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  Speaker 2: the murder of Coleman J. Walker and the trial of
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  Speaker 2: Comfortable Zachary Rolf, how it's impacted on the community and
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  Speaker 2: in particular the police force. The Minister just shut it
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  Speaker 2: down saying that it just wasn't the time and when
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  Speaker 2: I asked her when would the time be right to
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  Speaker 2: talk about this, she wouldn't provide that information. And either
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  Speaker 2: so although we're reading about it in the paper, we're
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  Speaker 2: hearing about it on the news, in budget estimates parliamentary
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  Speaker 2: committee process, we cannot talk about something that has impacted
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  Speaker 2: the whole of the Northern Territory and people want to
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  Speaker 2: talk about.
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  Speaker 1: Here, yes, And the concern really is that, you know,
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  Speaker 1: the worry is that this is no matter how this
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  Speaker 1: case goes, that it's going to have an impact on
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  Speaker 1: the community, and it's going to have an impact on
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  Speaker 1: the police force, no matter what the outcome is. And
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  Speaker 1: no one's suggesting that we go into what the outcome
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  Speaker 1: could be or the hypotheticals, but at the end of
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  Speaker 1: the day, it's going to have an impact.
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  Speaker 2: It's the elephant in the room. And I said that
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  Speaker 2: in Budget Estimates hearings yesterday I said, it's the elephant
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  Speaker 2: in the room that we need to talk about. It
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  Speaker 2: has impacted the police service, morale, attrition rates, god knows
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  Speaker 2: what else. And that's what budget estimates is all about.
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  Speaker 2: It's an opportunity to talk about the processes, the policies,
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  Speaker 2: the expenditure of government, what's going on inside government. And
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  Speaker 2: I reminded the Minister whether she chooses to use it
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  Speaker 2: or not as another thing, but we also are protected
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  Speaker 2: by parliamentary privilege. We can talk about these difficult issues
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  Speaker 2: in air fairly frank way without it impacting on the
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  Speaker 2: outcome of the trial. Teritines want to know what's going on,
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  Speaker 2: and the Police minister shut it all down.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Rob and I know that you asked quite a
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  Speaker 1: lot of questions about the rising crime in locations like
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  Speaker 1: Alice Springs and Tenant Creek and other areas. Do you
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  Speaker 1: feel confident that enough is being done in locations like
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  Speaker 1: Alice Springs to try and curb the serious issues that
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  Speaker 1: we are seeing and that we've seen in recent times.
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  Speaker 2: Look, I sat there, Katie, listening to the Police Commissioner
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  Speaker 2: and the Minister the police, and I just couldn't accept
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  Speaker 2: their zero emotion around what's going on in the territory.
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  Speaker 2: They were emotionless about the fact that we're all facing
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  Speaker 2: an escalation of crime, we're all being subjected to crime
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  Speaker 2: at a level that we shouldn't be. They expressed no
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  Speaker 2: emotion and really did not satisfy me at all as
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  Speaker 2: to what they're doing to try and protect us. They
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  Speaker 2: did identify Tenant Creek and Alice Springs as crime hotspots.
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  Speaker 2: The Police commissioner called it that called them hotspots, and
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  Speaker 2: then sort of gave the usual list of things that
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  Speaker 2: they're doing. But you know, it is outrageous, it's terrible,
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  Speaker 2: it's unacceptable, and you've got the Police Minister and the
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  Speaker 2: Police commissioner're talking about it like it's making a sandwich
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  Speaker 2: or something.
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  Speaker 1: You know, Robin, I know that you sort of said that.
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  Speaker 1: I know that you did also ask some questions, so
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  Speaker 1: you had some questioning around how the commissioner is managing
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  Speaker 1: that day to day police and also the role of
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  Speaker 1: territory controller, so overseeing the Howard Springs facility and also
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  Speaker 1: the borders, amongst other things. Did the commissioner indicate the
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  Speaker 1: level of time that it takes to sort of manage
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  Speaker 1: both of those roles.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, he did. My question was, on top of your
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  Speaker 2: enormous responsibilities to keep the Northern Territory safe from crime
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  Speaker 2: and antisocial behavior, you now have this enormous other role
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  Speaker 2: called the Territory Controller role, which is responsible for coordinating
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  Speaker 2: basically the whole COVID. Response I said, I asked him
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  Speaker 2: how much of your time, percentage wise, is taken up
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  Speaker 2: as the Territory controller and he said at least fifty percent.
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  Speaker 2: And I said, so, isn't this isn't this too hard? Like,
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  Speaker 2: isn't this too much for you to have both these roles?
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  Speaker 2: At what point do you say enough is enough? I
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  Speaker 2: can't do it all? And he refuted that, and he said,
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  Speaker 2: I am more than capable of doing both roles. I
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  Speaker 2: have a great team around me. It's not a problem. Well,
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  Speaker 2: I think it is a problem. And I think, and
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  Speaker 2: I maintained in last estimates in December early December last year,
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  Speaker 2: that the role of him being the Territory Controller of
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  Speaker 2: COVID has taken him away from his primary duty, in
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  Speaker 2: my opinion, and that is to keep us safe from
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  Speaker 2: crime and to fight crime, reduced crime. Because during that
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  Speaker 2: time he's been in that job, we've seen an escalation
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  Speaker 2: of crime right across the Northern territory.
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  Speaker 1: I guess the argument from the government, Robin, would be
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  Speaker 1: that there's been record investment into the police portfolio, and
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  Speaker 1: you know they've got they've got a great police force
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  Speaker 1: who are really very capable, and that he's obviously got
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  Speaker 1: other people in those deputy commissioner roles and also are
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  Speaker 1: those commander roles who are more than capable of managing
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  Speaker 1: the day to day policing. Is that adequate in your opinion?
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  Speaker 2: Not really? I mean, you know, I think that you know,
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  Speaker 2: we all know that the police do a fabulous job,
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  Speaker 2: the best that they possibly can. But it's also about policy,
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  Speaker 2: the policy and the legislation that they're given to do
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  Speaker 2: their job, and I think that's where the government's letting
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  Speaker 2: them down. I think I don't think the government has
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  Speaker 2: been on top of alcohol policy. I think that the
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  Speaker 2: government has been all over the place on youth justice.
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  Speaker 2: I think they're scrambling around. The police are at the
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  Speaker 2: mercy of a government that's really out of their depth
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  Speaker 2: when it comes to trying to address crime. They're good
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  Speaker 2: at other things this government that they're certainly not good
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  Speaker 2: at crime.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Robin, speaking of some of that legislation and some
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  Speaker 1: of the changes that have been put in place youth bail.
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  Speaker 1: It was and you know, some of the changes to
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  Speaker 1: the youth bail laws were also on the agenda. As
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  Speaker 1: I understand it was. There much detail provided around the bail,
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  Speaker 1: the new youth bail laws and will are they having
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  Speaker 1: an impact?
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  Speaker 2: No, there wasn't. I think it's early days. I didn't
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  Speaker 2: hear a lot of information around that. There was a
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  Speaker 2: lot of discussion around the fact that we're out of
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  Speaker 2: the biosecurity you know, the COVID biosecurity measures have been lifted.
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  Speaker 2: That there was a surge, for example, domestic violence after that,
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  Speaker 2: after people came out of lockdown. Domestic violence numbers went
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  Speaker 2: from about sixty per day across the Northern Territory, they
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  Speaker 2: rose to up to one hundred per day after they
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  Speaker 2: were lifted. And we're told now that they're sort of
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  Speaker 2: lowering back to the pre COVID level. But no, look,
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  Speaker 2: I don't think they've got much data around that the
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  Speaker 2: impact of the changes to the bar legislation that was
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  Speaker 2: only put through really about six weeks ago, so it
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  Speaker 2: is early days. But it was a funny day. I
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  Speaker 2: wasn't less feeling overly confident or well informed.
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  Speaker 1: Now just finally, and you might not have a huge
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  Speaker 1: amount of info on this, but it is one of
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  Speaker 1: the one of the big stories that the ABC is
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  Speaker 1: reporting on IBC News that there was thousands of speeding
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  Speaker 1: fines that are going to be withdrawn because of an
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  Speaker 1: error in the way that speed detectors were calibrated that
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  Speaker 1: was revealed in estimates yesterday by the Police Commissioner. Do
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  Speaker 1: you have much detail in this space?
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  Speaker 2: No. The only detail that was interesting to me is
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  Speaker 2: that if you've already paid your fine, then it's too late.
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  Speaker 2: You've taken responsibility for speeding effectively, and you won't be
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  Speaker 2: getting your money back even if the fine was the
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  Speaker 2: speed was incorrectly measured. What by paying it, you've accepted
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  Speaker 2: faults and that's the end of it. You're not getting
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  Speaker 2: your money bak, no way.
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  Speaker 1: So, have you've already paid it, you don't get your
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  Speaker 1: money back?
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  Speaker 2: Correct? Well, Robin, we will speed.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we will definitely be following that up because I
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  Speaker 1: tell you what, you know, when you get a speeding fine,
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  Speaker 1: you just assume you just sort of go, oh goodness, me,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't think I was speeding, but obviously I was.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I've received the fine, so I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: have to pay it.
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  Speaker 2: Precisely. And they're they're relying on the goodwill and the
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  Speaker 2: good people of the Northern Territory who think like you do, Katie,
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  Speaker 2: that they've paid their fine and life goes on too late, baby.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Robin Lamley, I'm going to see what else we
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  Speaker 1: can find out about this this morning. I reckon people
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  Speaker 1: are going to be irate. It's always good to catch
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  Speaker 1: up with you. Will catch up with you again on
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  Speaker 1: Friday for.
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  Speaker 2: The week that was looking forward to it, Katie.
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  Speaker 1: Good on your Robin. Thank you. That is the independent
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  Speaker 1: member for our lun They're Robin Lamley.