Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Colonial Parkway Murders Update_ New DNA Links and the CODIS Question

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Colonial Parkway Murders Update_ New DNA Links and the CODIS Question · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Well, good evening, y'all. I tell you what, y'all better
0:10
Speaker 1: hang on because tonight we're gonna have a conversation and
0:14
Speaker 1: it's gonna have a little bit of fireworks for me,
0:17
Speaker 1: because I am disgusted, I'm fed up, and I'm gonna
0:22
Speaker 1: say it. I try to always be glass half full.
0:26
Speaker 1: I try to be positive. I try to champion, but
0:30
Speaker 1: right is right and sometimes you've got to call it
0:33
Speaker 1: what it is. And that's what I'm gonna do today.
0:36
Speaker 1: So tonight, please help me. Welcome back to Zone seven,
0:40
Speaker 1: Bill and Kristin. How are you because we've had another
0:47
Speaker 1: connection to the Colonial Parkway.
0:51
Speaker 2: We're doing pretty good, Max, Thank you for having us.
0:53
Speaker 2: We appreciate being on Sunday seven as always.
0:56
Speaker 1: Are you kidding? It's our honor? And I tell you
0:59
Speaker 1: I'm wearing I'm my badass bracelet right now that you
1:02
Speaker 1: gave me a crime con and I appreciate you and
1:06
Speaker 1: Bill like you know. You and I have had so
1:08
Speaker 1: many conversations, and I just want to remind everybody that
1:13
Speaker 1: I've worked with thousands of victim shall never ever have
1:20
Speaker 1: I worked with somebody that said, what would you do?
1:24
Speaker 1: And I gave him a few things and within thirty
1:26
Speaker 1: minutes they were doing it. Ever, Bill Thomas don't let
1:31
Speaker 1: no grass grow under his feet. And then he hooks
1:35
Speaker 1: up with this sidekick, and I think she catapulted him
1:39
Speaker 1: into a whole universe that he wasn't expecting to happen.
1:43
Speaker 1: But together, if you've ever had an opportunity to listen
1:47
Speaker 1: to mind of a murder, they just work. They just fit,
1:52
Speaker 1: and they compliment each other and they utilize their strengths.
1:56
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to tell you it's a beautiful friendship.
1:59
Speaker 3: To watk Oh. Thank you, so, Bill, tell us.
2:02
Speaker 1: A little bit just for anybody that is brand new
2:06
Speaker 1: about your sister Kathy.
2:08
Speaker 3: Well, my sister Kathy and her girlfriend Rebecca Dowski are
2:12
Speaker 3: the first two victims in the so called Colonial Parkway murders,
2:16
Speaker 3: which happened from nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty nine
2:19
Speaker 3: in in and around Williamsburg, Virginia, where Kristin Dilly's from.
2:24
Speaker 3: And my sister Kathy is one of these people. You
2:28
Speaker 3: meet her, you would never forget her. She is smart
2:33
Speaker 3: and funny and dynamic. She had bright red hair and
2:36
Speaker 3: bright blue eyes and an expression I don't often hear
2:42
Speaker 3: applied to anybody else but Kathy. She had a peaches
2:47
Speaker 3: and cream complexion, is the way it's been described. But
2:52
Speaker 3: at the same time, she wasn't a girly girl. She
2:55
Speaker 3: was incredibly dynamic and hardworking. She was an honor graduate
3:00
Speaker 3: from our high school, Lowell High School up in Massachusetts,
3:04
Speaker 3: and then she surprised the rest of the family by
3:08
Speaker 3: announcing at a family dinner that she wanted to go
3:11
Speaker 3: to the Naval Academy. And this was at a time
3:14
Speaker 3: when the service academies, including Annapolis, were just permitting women
3:21
Speaker 3: to attend and graduate from Annapolis. So Kathy was in
3:25
Speaker 3: the second class with women at the United States Naval Academy.
3:29
Speaker 3: So she's very much a pioneer. Now she's following in
3:34
Speaker 3: my family's footsteps, our dad, Joe Thomas, who died a
3:37
Speaker 3: few years ago, as a nineteen fifty three graduate of
3:42
Speaker 3: the Naval Academy, and then our older brother, Richard, graduated
3:47
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy five, and then Kathy, who's six years
3:50
Speaker 3: younger than Richard, graduated from the United States Naval Academy
3:56
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty one with the second group of women
3:59
Speaker 3: to graduate from Annapolis.
4:02
Speaker 1: Impressive and like you said, dynamic. You're not going to
4:06
Speaker 1: forget her.
4:07
Speaker 3: No, no, no way. She was an amazing person. She
4:12
Speaker 3: was funny and smart and optimistic and incredibly hard working.
4:17
Speaker 3: The reason why Kathy Thomas succeeded at everything she did
4:21
Speaker 3: during her short twenty seven years on the planet was
4:24
Speaker 3: because she worked harder than anyone you'd ever met to
4:29
Speaker 3: see things through. So it didn't matter whether it was
4:32
Speaker 3: academics in high school or at the Naval Academy or
4:36
Speaker 3: at athletics. Again, both in high school and at Annapolis,
4:42
Speaker 3: she worked harder than anyone you ever met, and nothing
4:47
Speaker 3: ever stopped her. She just kept going and going.
4:49
Speaker 1: Well, that runs deep in the Thomas family. I've seen
4:53
Speaker 1: it in you. There ain't no quit in you. I've
4:56
Speaker 1: seen you go after things and meet people and try
4:59
Speaker 1: things and demand things. It's been unbelievable. And you know, Kristin,
5:04
Speaker 1: when y'all teamed up, y'all hit it on a level
5:09
Speaker 1: I have not seen. But you helped, Bill, I think,
5:15
Speaker 1: tremendously make sure that people one knew about the Colonial
5:19
Speaker 1: Parkway murders because a lot of people had never heard
5:21
Speaker 1: of it. And then you made sure that not only
5:24
Speaker 1: did y'all hit the media and podcasts and magazines and TV.
5:29
Speaker 1: But y'all started a podcast.
5:31
Speaker 2: You know, I have Bill to think for encouraging me
5:35
Speaker 2: to step out of my comfort zone and do way podcast.
5:40
Speaker 2: It is not the middle of life second job that
5:44
Speaker 2: I ever thought I would have, And I'm assuming both
5:47
Speaker 2: of you probably feel the same way, because podcasting kind
5:52
Speaker 2: of snuck up on all of us. But you know,
5:56
Speaker 2: I have Bill to thank for the bounty that I
5:59
Speaker 2: have me, the wonderful friends that I've made, and the
6:03
Speaker 2: difference that I feel I can make in this case.
6:05
Speaker 2: And it has been, you know, not just a pleasure,
6:08
Speaker 2: but an honor to be able to, you know, serve
6:12
Speaker 2: the families in this case this way with Bill, it's
6:17
Speaker 2: been I think, probably the most excellent thing that I've
6:20
Speaker 2: done with my life so far. And I do think
6:23
Speaker 2: that our partnership, like on the surface, it doesn't seem
6:27
Speaker 2: like a woman in her forties and a gentleman of
6:32
Speaker 2: a certain age. I won't spill your age. Bill should
6:35
Speaker 2: get along as well as we do and work as
6:37
Speaker 2: well as we do. But you know, I consider Bill
6:41
Speaker 2: one of my closest friends. I talk to him almost
6:43
Speaker 2: every day, and there's nothing that we don't share, and
6:46
Speaker 2: so I think our partnership works really well. And you know,
6:49
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to be able to help these families and
6:53
Speaker 2: move this case forward. However, I can well.
6:56
Speaker 1: Y'all done that in the case did get some traction.
7:00
Speaker 1: So a person of interest was named in some of
7:04
Speaker 1: the murders of the Colonial Parkway. Tell us about that.
7:07
Speaker 1: When this name came out, y'all get a call. It's
7:11
Speaker 1: not connected to Kathy yet, but this person comes up.
7:17
Speaker 1: They were able to connect them to some of the murders.
7:21
Speaker 1: Tell us about that.
7:23
Speaker 3: Hot me to jump in here.
7:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, Bell, I think you're best suited to
7:26
Speaker 2: do this part.
7:27
Speaker 3: Okay. So, a couple of months before the announcement was
7:32
Speaker 3: made public, we had heard from sources inside the investigation
7:37
Speaker 3: that the Virginia State Police, who handle two of the
7:41
Speaker 3: double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders, together with the FBI,
7:47
Speaker 3: but the FBI appeared to be taking a secondary role.
7:50
Speaker 3: They handle two other double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders.
7:55
Speaker 3: So we're talking about eight young peoples so far, and
7:58
Speaker 3: there's more being added as we speak. We got the
8:01
Speaker 3: advanced word that they were looking at two men, one
8:07
Speaker 3: deceased one still alive at that time, who were watermen
8:13
Speaker 3: who lived up in Lancaster County, Virginia, which is about
8:16
Speaker 3: an hour and a half north of the area we
8:19
Speaker 3: associate with the Colonial Parkway murders, which is closer to Williamsburg. Now,
8:26
Speaker 3: as soon as they started telling us what they knew
8:31
Speaker 3: about these two potential suspects, my alarm bells started going
8:35
Speaker 3: off because as soon as they said two watermen from
8:39
Speaker 3: Lancaster County, Virginia, I said, wait a minute. These two
8:45
Speaker 3: guys were questioned in nineteen eighty eight, two years after
8:51
Speaker 3: my sister Kathy and Rebecca Dowski died, and right in
8:54
Speaker 3: the middle of the Colonial Parkway murders. So although I
8:58
Speaker 3: never knew their names, remembered my father talking to me
9:01
Speaker 3: about this in nineteen eighty eight about two watermen from
9:06
Speaker 3: Lancaster County. So what developed then was in January twenty
9:12
Speaker 3: twenty four, the Virginia State Police, along with the FBI
9:17
Speaker 3: and the Hampton Police Department, announced that a waterman named
9:23
Speaker 3: Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior, had been identified as the offender
9:30
Speaker 3: in one of the Colonial Parkway murders. And that's the
9:34
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty seven murder of Robin Edwards and David Knobley.
9:40
Speaker 3: And they also linked Wilmer via DNA to the murder
9:44
Speaker 3: of a woman we were not familiar with at that time.
9:47
Speaker 3: Her name was Teresa Lynn Spa Howell. We'll call her
9:52
Speaker 3: Teresa Howell for short. So now there's a third victim
9:57
Speaker 3: who was not considered part of the Colonial Parkway murder.
10:00
Speaker 3: So all of this was announced in January twenty twenty four,
10:05
Speaker 3: So coming up on two years ago now.
10:08
Speaker 1: And Kristen, Now there's a new connection. What is the
10:12
Speaker 1: new connection?
10:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, in about mid November, we received some information that
10:22
Speaker 2: the Virginia State Police was going to announce in a
10:25
Speaker 2: press conference that they had linked lurry Ann Powell. And
10:29
Speaker 2: that is a name that we had heard before. I'll
10:32
Speaker 2: explain that connection in a second to Alan Wade Wilmer
10:35
Speaker 2: Senior via DNA. And now alarm bells, as Bill said earlier,
10:41
Speaker 2: went off for both of us because Lory Anne Powell
10:44
Speaker 2: is a name that we are both familiar with for
10:48
Speaker 2: many years, the amount of time that Bill and I
10:50
Speaker 2: have worked together, we've considered the murders of Loriann Powell
10:54
Speaker 2: and Brian Pettinger, which bookend, the Robin Edwards and David
11:00
Speaker 2: Noveling case and the Keith Colin Cassandra Haley case. We've
11:03
Speaker 2: always considered them to potentially be a part of the
11:07
Speaker 2: colonial Parkway murders. I termed the phrase Parkway adjacent cases,
11:13
Speaker 2: and we have always wondered and speculated on the podcast,
11:17
Speaker 2: could these two cases be, you know, done by the
11:22
Speaker 2: same person. Could they be connected to the cases?
11:26
Speaker 1: But she made great points not only are they bookend,
11:29
Speaker 1: you're talking about tom location method.
11:32
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly exactly. And so we got confirmation that
11:38
Speaker 2: Laurienne Powell had been linked to Wilmer via DNA, and
11:43
Speaker 2: it would turn out later that that DNA came from
11:47
Speaker 2: a sexual assault kit that had been taken on Laurie
11:51
Speaker 2: and that was the first that any of us had
11:54
Speaker 2: heard that she had been sexually assaulted. So now we
11:58
Speaker 2: have four victims that are positively linked to Alan Wade
12:03
Speaker 2: Wilmer Senior. And that also brings our victim count from
12:08
Speaker 2: eight the four original double homicides, to ten, because now
12:12
Speaker 2: we have Terry Howell and Lauria and Powell. So the
12:16
Speaker 2: question now becomes with four people positively linked to Wilmer
12:20
Speaker 2: via DNA, when are we going to get answers on
12:25
Speaker 2: how many of the other Colonial Parkway murders cases are
12:28
Speaker 2: linked to him and how many other potential victims are
12:32
Speaker 2: out there? Because Bill and I both think he has
12:36
Speaker 2: many more victims than you have even begun to be
12:40
Speaker 2: accounted for.
12:42
Speaker 1: And I join you in that. I've said from day one,
12:46
Speaker 1: you're looking at double digits. So here's the deal. I'm
12:50
Speaker 1: going to start with something positive. This is great police
12:55
Speaker 1: for They didn't get the first two victims and just
13:00
Speaker 1: let their foot off the gas. They didn't say, hey,
13:02
Speaker 1: we've identified this person, We've put his name out there.
13:06
Speaker 1: Great job. We're going to move on to something else.
13:10
Speaker 1: I think that's fantastic. I think that's exactly what should happen.
13:14
Speaker 1: You work it until you can connect every single victim
13:17
Speaker 1: that you possibly can. Agreed, Agreed, Here comes my negative.
13:23
Speaker 1: Why in the world is Wilmer's DNA not in Codis?
13:30
Speaker 1: Y'all heard me, y'all heard me. I hope nobody just
13:33
Speaker 1: ran their car off the road. Wilmer's DNA is not
13:39
Speaker 1: in Codis. Now we know we have a sexual assault victim, Bill,
13:44
Speaker 1: We know nobody rapes one time. We know that. Why
13:51
Speaker 1: would they not insist that he go into Cotis when
13:55
Speaker 1: all these rape kits are being put into Cotis.
13:59
Speaker 3: Well, here's the story as we understand it, and we're
14:02
Speaker 3: not saying we accept this, but this is what we're
14:05
Speaker 3: being told because Alan Wade Wilmer senior, and we want
14:09
Speaker 3: to be careful. We always say senior because there is
14:12
Speaker 3: an Alan Wade Wilmer Junior, his son who was a
14:15
Speaker 3: little kid when the murders took place. But we always
14:19
Speaker 3: differentiate because Wade the son is not the father. Because
14:26
Speaker 3: Alan Wade Wilmer Senior died in December twenty seventeen of
14:31
Speaker 3: natural causes at his home up in Lancaster, Virginia. He
14:36
Speaker 3: had never been charged with a crime, so his DNA
14:41
Speaker 3: is not in the CODA system. So we're being told
14:45
Speaker 3: by law enforcement, Virginia State Police and FBI that they
14:49
Speaker 3: cannot put Wilmer's DNA into the CODA system. We think
14:53
Speaker 3: this is insane. I mean, why are we protecting the
14:56
Speaker 3: rights of a dead serial killer over or the rights
15:00
Speaker 3: of all of the families in the Colonial Park by
15:03
Speaker 3: murders who've been waiting thirty six to thirty nine years
15:07
Speaker 3: for answers In this case, we think this is absolutely unacceptable. Strangely,
15:14
Speaker 3: the CODIS rules and REGs are created at the state level,
15:19
Speaker 3: which is again something that we believe needs to be fixed.
15:22
Speaker 3: We think we should have one set of standards for
15:25
Speaker 3: the entire country. But right now they cannot put Wilmer's
15:29
Speaker 3: DNA into CODIS. They can do a one to one comparison,
15:35
Speaker 3: but that's very slow and cumbersome, and we think that
15:40
Speaker 3: given how long the families have been waiting, the last
15:44
Speaker 3: thing we need is slow and cumbersome.
15:46
Speaker 1: All right, let's go to part two. I got a
15:50
Speaker 1: buddy and we used to laugh and joke back in
15:54
Speaker 1: the day that the next jobs we apply for, we're
15:58
Speaker 1: going to put you know, people down as our references,
16:01
Speaker 1: like Michelle Obama. You're never going to get Michelle Obama
16:07
Speaker 1: on the phone. You're not going to get to somebody
16:10
Speaker 1: close enough to her to verify whether or not she
16:13
Speaker 1: knows me. Right, So we're just sitting around drinking wine,
16:16
Speaker 1: laughing like these are going to be our retirement jobs,
16:19
Speaker 1: and we're just going to put ridiculous people that we
16:22
Speaker 1: know obviously don't know us. But nobody can ever verify that,
16:27
Speaker 1: because hey, Michelle's too powerful, and she's too busy and
16:32
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to get her.
16:34
Speaker 3: It's a great idea.
16:35
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. So y'all look forward to those
16:39
Speaker 1: applications when I start putting them in next year. So
16:42
Speaker 1: here's the deal, y'all. I will openly admit that Michelle
16:46
Speaker 1: Obama does not know me. I will admit that she
16:49
Speaker 1: is too busy to return to an email if I
16:51
Speaker 1: were to send her one. There is no excuse in
16:56
Speaker 1: an FBI agent at any level not responding to a
17:02
Speaker 1: victim's family. And I'm going to say it again, there
17:05
Speaker 1: is no excuse if Bill Thomas reaches out to you
17:11
Speaker 1: on the status of his sister's case. You ain't too busy,
17:16
Speaker 1: you ain't too powerful. Your job ain't too important that
17:20
Speaker 1: you cannot respond to him. That is your job. That
17:25
Speaker 1: should be a requirement. So I'm going to tell you,
17:30
Speaker 1: I think everybody listening to me should email that person
17:35
Speaker 1: and say, hey, what's up with Kathy Thomas's case. We
17:39
Speaker 1: should call you every day and find out what's up
17:43
Speaker 1: with Kathy Thomas's case. You could not bother to call
17:46
Speaker 1: Bill back. Maybe you could call the ten thousand of
17:50
Speaker 1: us back.
17:51
Speaker 2: I love it I think that's a great idea.
17:55
Speaker 3: Well, unfortunately today's FBI. Now, remember we've been dealing with
17:59
Speaker 3: the FBI, my family now for thirty nine years. We've
18:04
Speaker 3: been through different administrations, different heads of the FBI. And
18:11
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I would talk to the director of
18:14
Speaker 3: the FBI, but we have found that generally they tried
18:20
Speaker 3: to be very responsive. Kathy and Becky's case, my sister
18:24
Speaker 3: Kathy and Rebeckadowski's case is considered a federal case because
18:30
Speaker 3: their bodies were found inside the Colonial Parkway National Park,
18:35
Speaker 3: and if you die inside a national park, that's considered
18:40
Speaker 3: an FBI case, therefore a federal case. From the beginning,
18:44
Speaker 3: this new team that took over in January are absolutely horrible.
18:49
Speaker 3: They refuse to speak to us, and I mean literally
18:53
Speaker 3: refuse to speak to us. They tell us nothing. And
18:59
Speaker 3: the only commune unication we have with the FBI is
19:02
Speaker 3: once a month, like clockwork, a very nice young woman
19:06
Speaker 3: from Victim Services calls me to tell me she has
19:11
Speaker 3: nothing to tell me. Every single month. Now, Victim Services
19:18
Speaker 3: is a department that's designed to and I say this respectfully,
19:22
Speaker 3: handhold victims of violent crime in cases that the FBI
19:27
Speaker 3: is working with at this point. We don't need handholding.
19:31
Speaker 3: We need facts, we need updates, we need status reports,
19:36
Speaker 3: and we're receiving absolutely none. And we've even got this
19:41
Speaker 3: bizarre situation now where the senior person in charge of
19:46
Speaker 3: our case he refuses to give me his email address.
19:51
Speaker 3: I've told him flat out I questioned his professionalism because
19:55
Speaker 3: I'm not going to hold back at this point. What
19:58
Speaker 3: do I have to lose. I'm already off the Christmas
20:00
Speaker 3: card list yep, and Kristen is too, by the way.
20:06
Speaker 2: That oh, I've been off the Christmas card list since
20:09
Speaker 2: I started working with you, Palell. It's I was never
20:13
Speaker 2: under any any thought that I.
20:14
Speaker 1: Would be Well, I'm not afraid of the FBI either.
20:18
Speaker 1: My name is Nancy Grace g R.
20:20
Speaker 3: A wait a minute now.
20:25
Speaker 1: I'm just teasing. It's Cheryl McCollum. You know where I am.
20:28
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you. You know, if this was a
20:31
Speaker 1: case that they were going to be able to announce
20:34
Speaker 1: another connection cash but Tail would tweet about it, they
20:39
Speaker 1: would do a big press conference. Well, if it's something
20:42
Speaker 1: you're going to take credit for, it's something you need
20:44
Speaker 1: to respond to before you're taking credit for something. Not
20:50
Speaker 1: communicating with the families is not acceptable, period.
20:55
Speaker 3: And this is not just a Bill Thomas thing. This
20:57
Speaker 3: is all of the Colonial park murders families, interestingly, and
21:03
Speaker 3: I want to give credit and I'll try to be
21:05
Speaker 3: like mac here and balance my negatives with some positives.
21:10
Speaker 3: The Virginia State Police, who handled two of the double
21:12
Speaker 3: homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders, they're kind of pressing
21:17
Speaker 3: down hard on the gas, and I mean that in
21:19
Speaker 3: a complimentary way. They're actually going out applying for the
21:24
Speaker 3: Sexual Assault Kit initiative grants, sake grants, and getting the
21:31
Speaker 3: money and sending out evidence in the Colonial Parkway murders
21:36
Speaker 3: for independent labs. Primarily, they've been using our friends at
21:41
Speaker 3: DNA Labs International down at Florida, and they're having some
21:44
Speaker 3: success here. They're breaking through with really tough, difficult DNA
21:54
Speaker 3: samples that are left after all these years. A number
21:57
Speaker 3: of these victims were dumped in the water, and so
22:00
Speaker 3: it's a very challenging older sample with sometimes degraded with seawater,
22:06
Speaker 3: sometimes very small amounts of DNA left. And yet they're
22:10
Speaker 3: moving this case forward with the initiatives from the Virginia
22:16
Speaker 3: Department of Forensic Science and the Virginia State Police, so
22:20
Speaker 3: we have to give them a lot of credit. It's
22:22
Speaker 3: taking longer than I would like. I'm not generally a
22:25
Speaker 3: patient person, but at the same time, they're getting results
22:30
Speaker 3: which we're not seeing at all on the FBI side
22:33
Speaker 3: of the Skips bill.
22:38
Speaker 1: Are we any closer to solving Kathy's case?
22:42
Speaker 3: I think we are, and I'd love Kristen to weigh into.
22:46
Speaker 3: We think the fact that we're seeing some very powerful
22:51
Speaker 3: patterns emerge now in these first four identified linked via
22:57
Speaker 3: DNA victims. There's a lot of potential here for future progress.
23:05
Speaker 3: I'll call it in the Colonial Parkway murders.
23:08
Speaker 1: Now, Kristen, before you weigh in, I have a question
23:11
Speaker 1: for both of you. Kathy had hair in the palm
23:15
Speaker 1: of her hand. Is there any way if they can't
23:19
Speaker 1: get a full DNA profile, can they say whether or
23:23
Speaker 1: not the hair is consistent? Can they say it's the
23:26
Speaker 1: right color, the right texture, anything?
23:29
Speaker 3: To Wilmer, Well, if they would answer our hundreds of questions,
23:35
Speaker 3: I would be able to answer that question. I feel
23:37
Speaker 3: like an idiot that I cannot answer that question. But
23:41
Speaker 3: they refuse, and they, as the FBI, refuse to give
23:45
Speaker 3: us a clear concise answer as to what the status
23:49
Speaker 3: is regarding the testing of the hair that was found
23:53
Speaker 3: in my sister's hand at autopsy. Now, obviously that hair
23:56
Speaker 3: could be Kathy's hair, it could be Becky's hair, you know,
24:00
Speaker 3: two people struggling, or it could be the offender's hair.
24:05
Speaker 3: But we've been asking for years for a status report
24:09
Speaker 3: and they keep refusing.
24:11
Speaker 2: Well, and there was a point in time where Bill
24:15
Speaker 2: was getting four different answers on the hair. Yes there
24:18
Speaker 2: was hair, No, there wasn't hair. There was one really
24:23
Speaker 2: memorable moment in time where they said it was animal hair.
24:28
Speaker 2: And it has been just trying to get them to
24:31
Speaker 2: even acknowledge yes, there was hair definitively in her hand,
24:35
Speaker 2: Like Bill, the last time that they talked to you,
24:39
Speaker 2: were they even on yes, there was definitely hair. Were
24:42
Speaker 2: they still on no, there isn't your imagining things?
24:47
Speaker 3: You know, They've had so many different stories. I finally
24:50
Speaker 3: blew up at one point, and my mom would not
24:52
Speaker 3: be proud of me for this. I remember, you know,
24:55
Speaker 3: just blowing up and saying, you guys on a conference call,
24:58
Speaker 3: you guys can't even keep your f and lie straight.
25:01
Speaker 3: You've had five different stories on the hair in my
25:05
Speaker 3: sister's hand. Which one is it? So you know, I
25:10
Speaker 3: hesitate and people ask us all the time about the
25:13
Speaker 3: hair because we've pointed out this and a number of
25:17
Speaker 3: other problems in this investigation in terms of missed opportunities,
25:21
Speaker 3: discarded evidence. They they burned my sister and Becky Dowski's
25:27
Speaker 3: rape kits as medical waste eight years after they were murdered.
25:30
Speaker 3: And I mean that literally, they burned my sister and
25:34
Speaker 3: Becky's rape kits as medical waste per order of the FBI.
25:39
Speaker 3: When you can't make this stuff.
25:41
Speaker 1: Up right right, I mean, it's horrifying. And you know
25:48
Speaker 1: your sister and her girlfriend were placed in the trunk
25:51
Speaker 1: of the car. That means the killer had to have
25:54
Speaker 1: grabbed them by their clothing in different places to get
25:58
Speaker 1: that done. Yeah, that's when you and I first talked
26:01
Speaker 1: about the VAT. And again the next thing I knew,
26:04
Speaker 1: y'all here, Bill was meeting with Jerry Bradley. It was awesome,
26:09
Speaker 1: but I'm like, lord, I just told him about him,
26:11
Speaker 1: and now they're meeting and Bill is seeing the VAT
26:14
Speaker 1: in action. But I don't believe either at the shoulders
26:18
Speaker 1: or the waste of her pants or the cuffs of
26:20
Speaker 1: her jeans that you know there's not going to be
26:24
Speaker 1: DNA from where that person grabbed her and threw her
26:26
Speaker 1: in the car.
26:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, without question. And both of these women, both my
26:30
Speaker 3: sister Kathy and her girlfriend Becky, they're not tiny, ninety
26:35
Speaker 3: five pound women. They're both very tall, very athletic. They
26:39
Speaker 3: were both championship level athletes. Kathy's like five to six,
26:45
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty five, maybe even one hundred and
26:47
Speaker 3: forty pounds depending on how much running she was doing.
26:50
Speaker 3: Becky's even taller and also extremely athletic. So these are
26:54
Speaker 3: not small, petite women. And you're absolutely right. To pick
26:59
Speaker 3: Kathy's body up and fold her up into the hatchback
27:03
Speaker 3: area of a Honda Civic required a significant amount of contact.
27:09
Speaker 3: You'd have to do some sort of you know, like
27:11
Speaker 3: fireman's carry or you know, cradle her dead body in
27:17
Speaker 3: your arms in order to place her inside the car.
27:21
Speaker 3: And they were clearly killed outside the vehicle. And Kathy
27:25
Speaker 3: ends up in what we called the way back when
27:28
Speaker 3: we were kids. But it's small, it's a nineteen eighty
27:31
Speaker 3: Honda Civic. And then Becky's in the back seat, so
27:36
Speaker 3: a significant amount of effort and physical contact would have
27:39
Speaker 3: been required in order to move these two women from
27:43
Speaker 3: outside the car where they were likely killed, to inside
27:46
Speaker 3: the car where their bodies were found.
27:47
Speaker 1: That's right, and nobody back then was thinking of DNA.
27:51
Speaker 1: That wouldn't a factor, so they wouldn't have gloves or
27:54
Speaker 1: any of that madness own And you know, to me again,
27:57
Speaker 1: you're talking about no less than six different points on
28:01
Speaker 1: both of their bodies.
28:03
Speaker 3: Well, we were promised DNA results regarding the touch DNA
28:07
Speaker 3: and these areas where they thought that Kathy and Becky
28:12
Speaker 3: would their bodies would have made contact with the offender
28:15
Speaker 3: or offenders. We were promised results well over a year ago,
28:21
Speaker 3: and we still have nothing. You know, we keep asking
28:25
Speaker 3: questions and I feel like an idiot when I'm talking
28:27
Speaker 3: about this stuff. They just refuse to answer our questions.
28:32
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just going to say again the fact that
28:34
Speaker 1: Wilmer's DNA is not in codis. I can't even begin
28:40
Speaker 1: to tell you how disgusting that is to me. And
28:44
Speaker 1: you know, I look at like the Amber Alert. If
28:47
Speaker 1: we have a child that is missing, that doesn't meet
28:50
Speaker 1: the Amber Alert qualifications, you still contact the media, You
28:55
Speaker 1: still let surrounding agencies know this child is missing. You
28:59
Speaker 1: put their pitch your on social media. You don't just
29:02
Speaker 1: go well it doesn't meet amber, so oh well, No,
29:07
Speaker 1: there's got to be a back door way to test
29:10
Speaker 1: these rape kits against his DNA. There has to be.
29:14
Speaker 1: We should not have to wait for legislation to be
29:18
Speaker 1: passed for something to be done. I mean, Kristin, am
29:21
Speaker 1: I crazy?
29:22
Speaker 2: No you're not. You're not crazy, and I think that.
29:27
Speaker 1: It is.
29:28
Speaker 2: Bill. Look, Bill and I are happy to do this work.
29:31
Speaker 2: This is something that brings both of us, I think,
29:34
Speaker 2: a good sense of purpose. But it should not be
29:37
Speaker 2: up to the families and the friends of murder victims
29:41
Speaker 2: to push forward for legislation and for change. Again, we're
29:45
Speaker 2: happy to do it because we have to do it,
29:48
Speaker 2: but it shouldn't be up to us. We should not
29:50
Speaker 2: be the ones driving this. It should be up to
29:54
Speaker 2: the FBI.
29:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bill don't work for the FBI.
29:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, neither of us do. Just happened to be two
30:01
Speaker 2: loudmouth people who started a podcast.
30:04
Speaker 1: Right, But the FBI should be working for him.
30:07
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. I mean, you know there's this whole concept
30:11
Speaker 2: that the FBI is here to protect and serve, that
30:14
Speaker 2: all police is here to protect and serve and the VSP.
30:18
Speaker 2: You Bill said this before, and I'll go ahead and
30:20
Speaker 2: reiterate it again. The VSP is doing a fantastic job
30:23
Speaker 2: here because they, as you said earlier, Mac, they haven't
30:26
Speaker 2: let off the gas. And you know, my understanding with
30:30
Speaker 2: the investigative team that are working on this is that
30:33
Speaker 2: they're going to continue to seek as many answers as possible.
30:38
Speaker 2: But I don't know why, and maybe there is behind
30:40
Speaker 2: the scenes, and I don't know, but I don't know
30:43
Speaker 2: why there isn't a Alan Wade Wilmer task Force which
30:48
Speaker 2: is calling on everybody locally and not just in Virginia,
30:52
Speaker 2: but in DC, in Maryland, in North Carolina, even as
30:56
Speaker 2: far as South Carolina, to say, hey, if y'all have
30:59
Speaker 2: cold case, is that look like they could match him,
31:02
Speaker 2: bring him forward. We need to figure out where this
31:05
Speaker 2: guy was going. But he's got a boat. He could
31:08
Speaker 2: go anywhere up the coast, down the coast. We're right
31:11
Speaker 2: here at the Intracoastal Waterway. He could go as far
31:14
Speaker 2: down as Florida. We don't know the scope of this
31:16
Speaker 2: guy's crimes. There should be a task force somewhere encouraging
31:21
Speaker 2: people bring all your stuff to us will sort it out,
31:24
Speaker 2: but it shouldn't be up for us to make those recommendations.
31:27
Speaker 3: And what's frustrating too, is that he had an older brother,
31:31
Speaker 3: William Keith Wilmer, who went by his middle name Keith,
31:36
Speaker 3: and he died at the end of April twenty twenty five. Now,
31:41
Speaker 3: my understanding from the FBI is that he did voluntarily
31:44
Speaker 3: give up his DNA, and they have the middle brother,
31:50
Speaker 3: Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. They also have a younger brother
31:53
Speaker 3: who's also deceased. But because the FBI is dragging its
31:57
Speaker 3: feet to a point that is insane. Now we have
32:01
Speaker 3: a situation where suspects are dying one after another when
32:07
Speaker 3: they should be properly investigated while there's still a lot.
32:12
Speaker 1: Well, Bill Kristin, I tell you, we all stand with y'all.
32:18
Speaker 1: We are all going to keep champion and pushing this thing.
32:23
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. If anybody in the FBI is listening,
32:27
Speaker 1: Bill ain't going nowhere. I hate to tell y'all no,
32:32
Speaker 1: So if it were me, I would probably send him
32:35
Speaker 1: an email. I might call him. Heck, I might knock
32:38
Speaker 1: on the door and maybe sit on the front porch
32:40
Speaker 1: with him. And see if you can't explain the behavior
32:43
Speaker 1: in the past, but tell him what you're going to
32:45
Speaker 1: do going forward. And I don't mean have a victim
32:49
Speaker 1: advocate call him once a month to say there's nothing
32:52
Speaker 1: new to say.
32:53
Speaker 2: Wholeheartedly agree with that, but Bill.
32:55
Speaker 1: And christ and I appreciate you. Bill, We're going to
32:58
Speaker 1: stand with you and fight there's legislation or making phone
33:01
Speaker 1: calls or you know, using our resources and our media
33:05
Speaker 1: to help make sure people understand what's going on. And
33:08
Speaker 1: the way that the families of the Colonial Parkway, the
33:11
Speaker 1: way you're being treated is just unconsfortable. There's no excuse,
33:17
Speaker 1: there's nothing they could ever say that would make that okay.
33:21
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, we appreciate.
33:23
Speaker 1: It, y'all. I'm going to end Zone seven the way
33:26
Speaker 1: that I always do with a quote. The delays are
33:31
Speaker 1: just unconscionable at this point. This can't take years every
33:36
Speaker 1: single time. Bill Thomas, brother of Kathy Thomas. I'm Cheryl McCollum,
33:47
Speaker 1: and this is Zone seven