Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / The Hidden Cost - Steve Beanland - Part 2

Transcript

The Hidden Cost - Steve Beanland - Part 2 · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Appoche production.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: This podcast contains discussions of suicide. If anything in this
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: episode has given you concerns, please contact Lifeline. I've put
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: their number in the show notes. Welcome to Real Crime
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: with Adam Shann. I'm your host, Adam Shann. This is
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the second part of my conversation with ExM Robbery Squad
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: detective Steve Beenland, who I'm helping put his thoughts down
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: for a book on his career. In this episode, we
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: cover the killing of officers Rod Miller and Gary Silk
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: and the stunning reversal that saw one of the killers
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: walk free after twenty two years in jail. This was
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: just one of many dark knights of the soul that
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Beenland has endured in recent years that, in despair, led
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: him to consider taking his own life. We pick up
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: the story as officers Silk and Miller approached the suspect
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: vehicle on the night of August sixteenth, nineteen ninety eight. Steve,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Rod and Gary see what will be the murder car
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: at the Silk Empra. What happens next?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Gary goes to the driver, He has his notebook and
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: has a short conversation with the driver. He can't be
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent certain of my memory doesn't. I don't
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: think he wrote anything down in his notebook. He didn't
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: get the chance. It was just a general he would
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: have gone up and see here going mate, where he's
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: coming from? What the fuck right? Just to get a feel.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: And Deb's been Debs you are you're at you know
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: we're going to go and do a tiling job or
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: whatever that whatever. Yeah, a little bit of a little
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: bit of talk. As he's talking to Deb's Roberts is
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: laying down, Jason Roberts. Jason Roberts is laying down, He's
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: got the passion seat down and he sees him right now.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: We don't know if there's a conversation where Gary would
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: what do you do? Maybe not maybe where we weren't there,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and we don't know. However, we do know for a
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: fact because the police, the other police I mentioned before,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the uniform guys from the DSG, they know there's been
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: an intercept because they came up on the air that
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: were operating on a secure channel. So they knew that
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: they pulled this car over, which was a high on die.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: That's all they knew. And then they see the headlights
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: break of the high on Die and that was Gary
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: walking across the car at the front to speak to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the passenger who he had seen. By this state. This
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: all happened in twenty twenty five seconds, very very fast.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: At this stage, Rod's getting out of the passenger side
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to you know, just to hang there, just in case.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: He may not have even been working walking towards the vehicle.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: In fact, we don't think he did. So Gary gets
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: around to the passenger side of that vehicle and he's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: saying shot three times, once in the head, once in
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the stomach, once in the hit. Shot dead instantly, and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: he falls backwards and he's murdered. That's it. Gary starts returning.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry Rod Miller, whom I didn't know personally. I
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: wish I did, but I didn't. He starts firing and
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: returning fire. As he's returning fire, one of his rounds
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: from memory hits the rear bumper bar area of this vehicle,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the hand eye, which turned out to be a hind Excel.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: The other two or three he was able to get
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: off mif the target and end up way two hundred
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: meters down the raiding. Various panel shops and whatnot found
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: them later. But as he's firing. Debs is now firing
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: out of the vehicle through that vehicle. Now that vehicle
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: has a like as a hatchback, so the glass is
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: on a little bit of an angle in that vehicle
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and he's firing from the inside the car out. That
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: turned out with a quite a powerful handgun. I believe
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: from memory it was a three five seven magnet big one,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and we had thirty eighths back there three four seven.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: It's going to win that fight if it's just gun
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: on gun, you know. But so Rod's X army, he's
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: having a lash, he's doing well, and one of his
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: one of his as I said, one of his boards
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: hits the car, not the screen. Debs is shooting out
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: of that vehicle from inside and smashes the screen. Most
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of that glass, in fact, just about all of it
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: falls into the vehicle because it's on that angle. But
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: a small tiny bit fell fell out on that roadway
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: that was relevant as Rod's fiery. He's hit by one
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: of Debs's rounds in the upper arm area. From memory,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I can't be one hundred percent on that, but it's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: his body. He might have been the arm pit or
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: top part of his arm in any event, the vehicle
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: travels that portion of his arm and then travels around
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: with his heart and lungs and basically mashes it mashes
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: them all up, and it was a death. It was
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: a death of him. So they get back in their car,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Den Roberts and drive away. The two police officers down
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the road who heard the shooting, of course, see the
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: car drive away, not at speed, just normally, And they're
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: in a dilemma, aren't they. Do they go to the sea,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: do they chase the car? They went to the scene.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: In my view, that's the right decision. There was a
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: lot of criticism of them. I don't think it was warranted.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I think I would have gone to the scene. That's
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: your you know, you can deal with that later. Right now,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: what the fuck? You go to the scene and make
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: sure you do it calls at stake here. You don't
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: know the condition of the fellow officers. That would be
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the most human response, and I can't believe anyone would
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: really seriously criticize that. But well, there was a little
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: bit of criticism because they didn't have their bests on
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: sitting in the car. They had to go to the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: boot put them on and then go to the scene
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: where but Gary already had passed away if they had
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: had their vests on, and that wasn't a direction from
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: the operation. That was up to them. He's going to
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: sit in the car for ten hours with a big,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: heavy police bulletproof fest on. You put it on when
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: it's required, and up to that point there was no
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: need to have it on. So when always happened, they're
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: out of the car putting in his veest on when
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: it might take them a minute to do that. In
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: the meantime, Rogers beans shot and is stumbling towards Warrigal Rod,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: which was about I think from a memory, about one
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: hundred meters or so up to that intersection Warrigle and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Cochrans and he's struggling book and police are going to
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: the scene. It's all over the radio and everything. That's
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: been a broadcast from these other two broadcast at first
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: what they could. But Rod was missing. So everyone's converged
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: on that scene and where the fuck is Rod? Have
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: they taken him? Is he in that kill car? Where
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: is he? We couldn't find him? Oh I wasn't there, right,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: But the police couldn't find in the boys they're running
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: around with shotguns and all sorts of shit. A's fucking
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: mayhem going on. Where the fuck is Rod? One of
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the uniform guys, an actual uniform guy from I think
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: he was from Chelsea or somewhere, might have been Arab him.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: He's putting witch's hats out to stop the public coming
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: into this massive fucking job. And he did his job well.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: And as he's got away from the mayhem and the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: sirens and all of that, he gets some quiet and
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: he thinks he can hear something in amongst these bushes,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and it turns out it was Rod Miller. So what
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Rod had done is he'd stumbled pretty much to that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: corner and then gone to the Silky Emperor, which is
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: another thirty meters down the road, holding his armor to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the patrons that were still eating dinner there looking out
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the window at him, and he's asking for fucking help
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: because he knows he's fucked right, and they think he's drunk,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: some drunk guy. Well, they didn't do anything about it.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: They're all fucking interviewed statements later. We thought some drunk
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: got because I don't know what Rob was wearing, flannelt
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: shirt blah blah, Yeah, didn't look like a cop, I guess.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So he fell into those bushes and he was there
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: for a good period of time before this young buy
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: hurt him in the bushes and went over and found him.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Fuck is here, This is right? We found him right.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: So the boys went to him, of course, and I
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: think six or seven uniform guys attended to him. One
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: was writing notes because he's pretty bad. Scene you can understand, Yeah,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: his blood every week, you can't talk. They're holding him,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: fucking gray let him and he gets out what he can.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I think he said something like two offenders. This is
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: all scattered words, his blood everywhere and shit, and he
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: can only fucking.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Talk to one on foot one on foot.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Two and he gave her like a bit of a description.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: They're doing their best right and what he said through
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: the fucking gasps there, et cetera. Of course, he were
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: there in a fucking bee stick and he's put on there.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: He went to the hospital straight away and he got
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to the operating room. They worked on him for a
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: bit that he died on the table. We got the
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: message at I think four am came over the radio
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: that he passed away. So Mark rang me at home
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: because I was at home. Remember in the movie that
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: came later. I was there at the scene. I wasn't
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: they got that wrong.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: But anyway, that was telling me Lucifer one of the
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Underbelly files that were on Channel nine and obviously taking
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: liberties with the I wonder what it's like when you
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: see a show like that and you see yourself portrayed
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: and it's not the way it happened. Is that a
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: bit unnerving?
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I just wish I had done it properly, you know? Yeah,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: what didn't a producer let the actor come and see me?
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: They wanted. I know, I'm friends with the actor who
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: played me, Jimmy Taylor. I met him in Los Angeles.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: He said, well, you wanted to go and meet all
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the characters, but the producer wouldn't less us because he
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: wanted us to act a certain way. Yeah.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so Monday morning, yep, you're going a million miles
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: an hour, and the Laura my task force is put
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: together yep. And it was when you shoot cops, you
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: have the whole force after What was the atmosphere like
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: in that task force as the investigation began or really
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: got momentum.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Initially it was the homicide crew that got that job
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: on that call that night. They were on call that
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: night for anything that happened. So that homicide crew, which
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: is a detective senior sergeant, the technique sergeant three or four,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the technical se any constables, they got that job because
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: they were on duty that night. So that crew, which
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: was Grahet Collins and his crew, I think Paul Dale
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: was on his crew at that time. They were the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: initial Lauramer and then of course it became much bigger,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: and then Paul Sheridan was appointed the detective inspector in
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: charge and he realized in the first week that it
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: may be only maybe related possibly to the robberies. So
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: in that case, let's make inquiries with the r Robbery squad.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: So he came down and spoke to Ray. He wanted
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the files and Ray said, no, you don't get the
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: files without my men. My men are behind those files.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: There's things that are not written in those files that
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: only my men know. So no, fuck you, you're not
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: getting it. You're not getting the files unless my men go.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: That's how good Ray was, so he had no choice.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: He's secondered. Then asked Ray to second us, which was
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Mark pretty much Mark, Joe and I at that point
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: the other two had lester the crew to Lorimer, so
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: by the end of the week pretty much there's a
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: little bit of politicking, and by the end of that week,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: on the Thursday or Friday, we were seconded up and
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: we physically went up there with a big racket trays
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: of all of our files. Pretty much in the maybe
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the end of the second week, they'd secondered a lot
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: of detect gives in from the suburbs that were good
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: operators but hadn't got a spot at crime just yet.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: They didn't want to get detect this from crime because
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: crime was struggling anyway with their vacancy, and we didn't
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: want to harm them to do their work, so we
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: pulled from divisions if that makes sense. You know, we'd
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: pulled one from Carton, so I'll be or Marlvin c
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: ib So killed us. And in the end there was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: about twenty five of us. From memory, I have to
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: have a look at the old FIGHTO they had twenty
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: five or thirty of us. But our crew, in particular,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: our sole job was to look at solely the armed robberies.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: That was it. There was another series which I should
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: mention at this point and I wasn't involved in this.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: This was before I got a vacancy at the Armorbbery
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Scord in ninety six. But between ninety one and ninety
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: four there was about twenty seven armed robberies of similar
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: nature to Hamada that we were working on. We're well
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: aware of that series. It was called Operation Pigout. So
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: when Hamada started, one of the detectives on our crew,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Mark Wise, a good man, he said, very early on,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: this will be related to Pigout. So we started looking
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: through Pigout twenty seven of them, but we hadn't really
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: analyzed them one hundred thousand percent when Hamada started, so
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: that kind of died. Remember there's only three of us working,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: so we kind of diverted to Hamada without having a major, major, major,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: thorough look through Pigout. We were aware of them. We
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: read all statements and things like that. We knew the
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: targets and the victims and whatnot. But there was one
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: job in Pigout that stood out. It was the twenty
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: seventh or twenty sixth job. And when I picked that up,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Now this is after Garian Rod had been murdered, probably
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: twelve months later. I guess I was part of our
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: work was looking at all of our suspects. We had
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: many moneys, fucking hundreds. Those first twelve months were the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: hardest working. It's the hardest job ever worked. And you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: not me personally, me personally, but we were working very hard.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Let me put it that way. The whole task force
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: was working very hard. I'm not saying we work any harder,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: but maybe we did just a little bit harder. I
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: reckon we did because deep in our hearts we knew
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: it was related over here in homicide landing there thinking
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: that we're keeping open mind, but deep in our hearts,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: we fucking knew it was related to our job. And
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I said to Paul share it. In that first week
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: when I was there, I fucking had a few days.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: On Friday night, I went in and I said, Boss,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know what your boys are like, but you'll
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: get fucking three thousand percent out of me. Mark and Joe,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: all right, I want you to fucking know that I
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: had never met him. They are showed partially a bit
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: of that the on the movie. I can't remember exactly,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: but I didn't go and speak to him. It was
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: after hours. It was impacting, so we worked really hard.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: The twenty seventh armed robbery, going back to that was
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: in Patterson Lakes. Two offenders. How did that link? There
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: was a link through the crew at the armed robbery
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: squad that investigated that particular job. That's right, that's right
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: at the end of the armed robbery, they're exiting. It
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: was Debs and Jason Giller. Well, who's Jason Giller? I'll
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: explain in a minute. A victim at the arm robbery,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: because the restaurant was full of patrons at the end
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: of the night, was a good guy and he jumped
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: out in the car park and threw a stubby at
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: these guys as these two crowks as they were exiting
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the arm robbery, and as Debs and Gilla were fucked
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: off in their car, this guy jumped in his car
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: after them. So, being good bloke, next thing, Gilla and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: devs which way they're looking at the mailways? Which way
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: do we go? Right? This blake turns out next to him,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: starts giving it to him. What the fuck do you
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: think you're doing? Right dead, pulls a gun out and
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: basically lets him let's around go straight through his fucking car.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: He goes lok that the round, crossing his fucking driver's seat,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: get it, Yeah, he nearly fucking cop one. He gets
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: a better back off here, but he gets a parcel
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: regio of of this car. That led the crew at
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the ar robbery Squad to pull in some crooks. Right,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: they did some handiwork on that number play and they
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: pulled in some crooks. One of them was Jason Giller. Right.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Didn't mean anything to them at the time. They pulled
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: him in and they realized that he reported his cars style.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: And that night, just after the job at danning On
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: cop Shop, he set up an alibi for himself by
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: going out to the pub with Adam Shann and Steve
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Bayland and then says I'm going for a piece, and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: he fucks off an hour reports his car style and
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: unbeknownst to you or me because we don't know, he's
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: starting to stick up down at danny On uniform at
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: the counter. And then he comes back and we've said
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: where you've been?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, I read into a made of mine in there.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: It comes up with some shit.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: That was his alibi. So this's the cops therever ca,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I go and ask Adam Shannon, Steve Belan, I was
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: with it, get it, but he's reported his car style
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and then it was burnt out up in the mountains.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Danny knocks. So the boys are on to it. Our
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: boys at robbery, which was Mick Granger who's now an
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: assistant commissioner, A couple of brothers, Mick, Nick Grangers, all
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: over this job. He basically did it himself. I'm reading it.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: And so they pulled Jason Gilli in and gave him
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: a twist, as we would call it. I'll leave that
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: open to the listeners as to what that means. But
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: he was fucking spoken to pretty well, awfully, but quite
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: aggressively here lawfully, no dramas, just before Christine Nixon paked
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the fucking eddid. So there was an O one ace.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know a few guys would remember, but in
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: the early mobile numbers they were one to eight and
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: then you get six inches and then it turned into
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the four A three A four. What we know now
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: that number they twist. They pulled him in three times,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: this Giller over a period of three weeks, and he
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: came up with different stories. They couldn't pin him down.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: They kicked his lawine search did all they could came
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: up with stolen car, blah blah blah. I charged him
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: with false report. I think in the end they did
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: do something, but there was that one eighth number because
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: they did some phone checks. So now that the boys
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: have been murdered, I'm looking at this really really super close.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Joy was looking at other stuff. Mark was doing other stuff.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the pig out stuff. That was my job,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: amongst other shit, going off bombs every day. But I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: ring up Telstra and I said, nte one eight can't
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: help me out with the records from a one eighty
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: that saw a shit. Mate, You're going back fucking twenty,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I said, I know, it's very important. It's relating to
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: police being shot dead on duty. That's all I'm going
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: to tell you. Do your fucking best. He goes, well, okay, anyway,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that guy I dealt with was a champion. He comes
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to me personally, it's and killed a right. I met
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: him downstairs with all of these, like a thick file
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: of numbers emanating from that one eighth number, received from
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that one eight number, or emanating from that one eight number.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Couldn't do locations they can now not then. But that
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: was enough cooll charge. So I'm working on this number.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Now focused on this number, we did go and speak
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to Jason Giller and we alibied him out of the murders.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: As soon as I identified all this, We're going to
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: go and speak to him asap. We alibied him completely
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: out of the murders. We're under no illusion he had
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with them. A lot of work went
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: into Jason Giller, trust me. So the number. I'm typing
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: these numbers into our system at Lorimer, and one of
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: them is over a number of weeks. Okay, I'm just
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: sitting there. I was like a checkout cheek. I was
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: reading the numbers in one hand and putting them into
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: our system at Loramer with the other. If it came up,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: it would register as a match and you'd get a
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: little flash on the computer. No beings, just a little flash.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I did this over a number of days. I was
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: fucking my eyes were going all through my head. Was
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: fucking hard work.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: But teds work, but important work. I've got very I've
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: got so much respect for Secretary's mate.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you anyway, one day, particularly the big day,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I'm there doing the same thing, and one of I
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: got no hits, no hits, but I don't care. I'm
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: going through to the end of this. So I'm about
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: halfway through. There's about one hundred pages here. I'm about
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: page fifty. I don't care. I'm going all the way through.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: So I'm halfway through. I get a flash. Fuck, I'll
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: get a flash stare. That was three numbers ago, you know,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: So I go back enter it all again, flash flash,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I go back. I did that fucking ten times. I
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: went and had a cup of tea. Am I seeing things?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I put water on my face, came back. Definitely got
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: a hit. What's it hitting? What the fuck is that hitting?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: It's hitting a landline. So I pull up the information
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: report relating to that hit, and that hit is Debs's
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: phone number, his landline home phone number in Springfield Drive,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: where he lived with his fucking family with other humans
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: that are aliens. I'd call them aliens. That's a good
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: term for them. Anyway, it hits that house. I again
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: directed to a file and a crew. The crew is
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Adam Shand's crew. All right, So I go and see
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Adam Sanders, the sergeant. I said, what's going on here?
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: What does this You've taken a statement from this what's
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: his name, Van dalle Debs. What's that about? How does
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: he get onto it? Because I'm trying to say, fucking
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: eight hours here, I'm busy, and he can tell me.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: He goes. Yeah, first week or two after the boys
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: were shot, we learned that a HYONDI XL had gone
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: to a Danny Knong windscreen replacement place. And we'd already
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: put out flyers to all of these places in Victoria
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: that if you get a fucking XL hatch, come in
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: with broken glass, we want to know about it. You
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: ring us. So all these owners had already We've fax
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: machine was going nuts, so they all knew fortune. We
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: got that message out in the days after the murders
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: that Roberts, Jason Roberts takes that car, the kill cart
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: to Adam Shann madeers in danny Knock and you get
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: me and Adam Shann replaces the glass, takes all the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: details down of what happened there. He went there with
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend, Jason and his girlfriend, and he asks Jason
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: what happened. He came up with some bullshit road creaker ball,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: fucking it whatever, and then he's straight onto us at Laurama.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: So we're there before he puts the fucking phone down.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: The boys investigate all of that, and that's how so
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Jason Roberts is identified then as question mark is this
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: or is this not? The kill car? And as a
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: result of looking at him, they ran the surveillance guys
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: on him for a couple of weeks and then they
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: identified this other guy. Who's this other guy Deb's So
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: in the end they made a decision to it was
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: a tactical decision at that stage. They did a good job,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: this crew, and I wasn't aware of it because we're
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: all doing different things. It was so busy. So they
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: went out there to know he warrant and Dev's's home.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Now this is in the movie as I can remember
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: it now. It was portrayed in the move and Dev's
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: comes out and he wants to know what's going on.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: But when they drive past, Jason is out in the
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: driveway vacuuming the back part of the fucking car with
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: a little tiny vacky trying to get all those bits
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: of glass out of there. Boys like, fuck, we better
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: get a statement today, right now. So they get a
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: statement off debth get his phone number, which is with
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that landline that I've hit back at the office twelve
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: months later, and that's how we got onto DEVS. We
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: put it all together on a huge fucking white board,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: you know how we do business. We had a crew
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: in Sydney looking at Lebos at that time, the time
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: of the shooting. There was so many criminals in a
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: two kilometer fucking space you wouldn't believe it. Mate, Peter
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Gibbs was driving passed there was a crew of Lebo
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: stalen ice in the back lane. It was fucking nightmare, right,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: So we had to eliminate all that. So this is
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: now twelve months later and we pulled the crew back
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: from Sydney. They're still working on a crew of Lebanese
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: fucking drug dealers right up there. Because they left the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: next day and one of them had long hair. They
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: all flew out the next day to Sydney, so they
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: were possible good suspects.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Look, so now that this is twelve months later after
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the murders. Now I found that phone connection, as I've described,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and we sold it to Paul share it and he
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: wanted more detail, No, not good enough. More and more
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: and more and more and more got him more and
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: more and more. As you find more and more and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: more when you're on the right people. Right. It's an
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: old police saying, when you're on the right people, fucking
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: things happen same in life, isn't it. So we then
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: the whole task force was swung solely onto Devs and
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Roberts solely that we didn't do anything else, and we
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: worked on them for a good twelve months, easily come
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: up with a big plan. Paul was a great boss.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: He said, right, I want you to get together in
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: your cruise and come up your idea of to help
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: assist with this plant. I'm not going to give you
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: any prompts to go away and have a meeting. If
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: it takes two days, so fucking be it. I want
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: you back here Friday morning with all you. We're going
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to have a big meeting and we'll throw up all
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: your ideas on the big whiteboard. I might have a
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: few myself, and we'll develop a very very very strong plan.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: We're not going to go willy nilly and we'll lock
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: them up. That's what we did. We all come up
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: with different ideas and they'll bring it that. Friday morning
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: was a day I won't forget. Everyone's thrown up idea.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Paul's write them all down on the big whiteboard, and
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: then he went away and thought, right, what is the
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: best way to do it? And he coordinated this plan
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: and we ran it. We all had different jobs to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: do along that plan, very complex jobs. For example, on
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: our crew, we had to eliminate Jason Giller because we
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: were thinking, if it gets to trial and they are
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: the killers, and we pretty certain they are because of
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: what they're saying on the phone and in their house
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: and everywhere else. We were looking all their defense barrister
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: will say at the trial is you've got the wrong Jason.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: It's Jason. We wanted to do. That's how far ahead
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: we were. So we run a huge operation on Jason Giller,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: massive one, which took six months, big one, and we
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: got what we wanted. I won't divulge it here because
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: it's pretty complex, right, but trust me, it was brilliant.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: He ended up being arrested in charge with I think
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: we charged him with fifteen of those pigout jobs. He
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to ten and he got ten years jail.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: That's Jason Giller, So he was fucking bold off his
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: perch for ten years.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: So piget ultimately when he was elected, was not that
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: it was well.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Deb's was a comment denominate. He did all the pig
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: outs right. They had that incident in the car that
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I just described earlier, and then Jason Giller shit himself
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: on getting out of this. He stopped and Gilla and
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Deb's uncle nephew, uncle, nephew, nephew. Jason Gilli says, no,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: this has gone way beyond still, you know, still in
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: a bit of money at night. N You're fucking nuts.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: So he stops. They stopped for four years and Debs
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: starts again with his daughter's boyfriend. So two, Jason's we've
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: got to eliminate Gilla, and we did it, and it
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: was agreed by the judge before the trial started of
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Debs and Roberts. Missed the defense barristers because this is
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: whatever had many of them. If any of you mentions
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Jason Giller in front of the jury, I'll have your
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: fucking ask for breakfast. And that was all in writing.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: They signed up, done and dusted, and that was a
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: massive part of our job to eliminate Guilla. Let's see.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: So in the end, the window glass from the Herndai
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: was a key piece of evidence because you're able to
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: match what you had on from the road to what
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: was found in the car, which was which put that
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: HERNDA Excel on the scene. And this was the part
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: we're still hading a bit here, but go on much later.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: It was more the windscreen that I've already described that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: got that number in that file of that crew that
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: did that job. And then it was me twelve months later,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: finding that number and matching it to the fact that
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: they'd gone there and done that. Because this crew had
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: investigated that incident win screens incident, they couldn't go any
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: further with it. They had removed the car and taken it.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: This was the stumbling block. They seized the car under warrant,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: took it to the forensic center, and the guy that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: did the initial examination said, this is not the kill car,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and he explained why Paul Sheridan had to accept that
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: because we didn't have any further When I found what
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I found, we were able to go further and say, boss,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: hang on, I know that he said, no, this scientist,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: but let's look at the testing he did. We asked
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: him to do refractive index glass testing and some other
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: scientific stuff that I won't bore the listeners with and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I said, I'll go and speak. He said, nah, you
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: not you. I'll send someone from the fraud squad, you know,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: someone a little bit less aggressive. He sends another sergeant
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: out and we asked him to do one to five
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: in relations to testing. He got an negative result on one,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and then he didn't do two, three, four and five.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Paul said, well, you need to do number two, number three,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: number four, and number five as we fucking asked you
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the first time. When he did that, guess what it
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: was now in the parameters of the kill cart. And
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: that was because we had a crew in Korea dealing
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: with Hi on Die and what that number actually, the
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: tiny did of glass had a series.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Of numbers and dots on it. We didn't know what
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: they meant.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: So they were two of them went over to Korea
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: for a couple of days and found out exactly how
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: that all operated. That was a trip that had to
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: be done. Couldn't do it over the phone, So they
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: did that and it all married up. And then finally
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: this goose at the forensic center, who you should have
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: done his job initially fucking didn't you know, But it
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: all fell into play. So there was a series of things.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: You got the glass, you know. Yeah.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Anyway, So long story short, you've got to have evidence
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: to charge Dead's and Roberts.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, more than that.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: What's that moment? Like?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I was really proud, mate, to be honest, because
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I never Paul picked the crew who's going to interview
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: each offender out of the task force, I was picked
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: to interview Roberts, and Dean Thomas was with me. He
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: was my partner in that interview. So I was pretty proud, mate.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I thought, you know, whoever's up in the clouds, I'm
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: doing this for. Look, I never knew I'm doing that
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: for both of them, of course, right, But as I
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: said before, Gary and I a huge history, So I
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: was really proud to be part of that arrest team
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and the interview this fucking scumbag who killed my fucking mate.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: So that's how I felt personally, mate.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: An overwhelming case. Long story short, they're found guilty, your
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: life sentences. We roll forward to twenty twenty and something
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: happens and you're out of the job.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Now twenty twenty. Goodness, you've got me off guard there
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I left in twenty eleven. Can you refreshment memory?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Well, basically, what happens with Jason Roberts OH case comes
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: back to the retroll the retrial. Sorry, it's all around
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: the interpretation of what Rod Miller said. He's dying declaration
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: about how many offenders he saw, and I'm not going
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: to go into the detailer that suffices to say that
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: there was confusion, shall we say about whether there was
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: one or two?
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Correct?
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: And in the end that's enough for Jason Roberts to get.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: A retrial correct with Ron Ddles's help, Yes.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Form homicide protectivedles.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: With Ron Eddles's help, I'll put that in bold. Yes,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: with his help, he got a retroll right, Yes.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: And he's found not guilty in the retrial.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he was either acquitted or not
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: guilty either one. He walked out of that trial. I
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: watched every day of it. Yes, walked out. You're out
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: of the job. By then, I was due to give evidence.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I've been preparing for three months. I had I think
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: nine folders of my work delivered to my town where
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I live by express courier with a security guard in
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the van. I got that delivered to my house and
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I went through it. Every fucking word and number was
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: virtually memorized, and I was ready to give evidence, so
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I prepared pretty heavily for that. Came to the Friday,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: was due to be there on the Monday, the barrister
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: for the DPP rings me and said, Sleeve, they're conceded
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: all of your evidence. They don't want to hear from you.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: And I think because I played that role in the inquiry,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: they felt that shit, we don't want him on the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: stand mate because we're going to get kicked. We don't
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: want him in front of a jury. So they said
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: boot him off the list. So I never got to
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: give evidence in the trial. I was a bit disappointed,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: but what can you do? Not up to me the verdict.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: To see Jason Roberts walk and now bring a lawsuit
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: against the State of Victoria must have been a hammer
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: blow to every Victorian police officer at the time who
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: was in the job at the time of the murders.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: You're out of the job by this time. How does
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: it hit you?
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Not as hard as you might think, because how I
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: deal with those things personally, Adam, I'm a huge believer
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: in karma made. I don't care how much money they
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: give him. It wasn't a fight. They settled it because
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: our government's pissed week, right, we all know that. Let's
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: fucking call a spade a spade. Just send around, mate,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: spare me? Are you kidn mecked? So they give him
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: through me in or whatever it was for me, And
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know the exact figure. I don't care less
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you know why because karma will clean it up in
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the end because he's an answer. Jason Roberts is a
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: weak an answer with cancer. All right, he's going to
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: die very soon from someone stepping on him. Not to you, No, no, no,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: make them well over it. But I'm saying karma. Karma
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: comes in different ways. Could be an illness. It could
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: be a drug addiction, for example, a nice addiction. Maybe
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: it could be a head on car accident. Or he
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: might black out on the highway and run into a tree.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Or he could be family devastation, his mom suddenly dropped dead,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: or you know, if he happens to have children, now
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: you get born with brain damage. Could be anything. So
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: is money going to say to you? And that's his No,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Money's not going to say to you, is it? And
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: you reckon? He give any way anyway, no hold on it.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: You know what had happened all of his people that
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: he know, Jason, you boy, mer ass, you know getting
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: your ass bought me your cart. It's going to last
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: two seconds. The rest of it will be blown in
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: other ways.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: And of course he's been sued by victims of the
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: robberies which he was responsible for. There's no arguments about.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: That one girl. And you know, I can say her name.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I won't to say it here, but it's on the record.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: If you put her name into the computer, it comes
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: up news because it was big news. I'm going to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: say that because she's she's had enough trauma in her life.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I may have mentioned her in my tiktoks, I'm not sure,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: but she has sued for the drama that he's caused
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: her and I know about that personally. Again, I won't
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: mention it. And she's a lovely per She played a
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: massive role in identification witness at that Sportsmart robberie that
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I spoke of earlier, and it's been heroin. She's had
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: a heroine time and I thought this is carma when
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I was told about that by phone. That's karma. You
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: know what any money that he has got left, she'll
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: take it off, he'll be destitute again, and some other
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: karma will happen to him. So that's how I view it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not angry about it, of course, because plus we
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: took twenty two years. He had twenty two years of
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: jail in max security. I've been I've personally served some
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: time for some things I never did, but I was
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: accused of in a max security. I was only there
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: for a month, and I know what it's like. Now
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: he did twenty two years. That's got to affect the
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: person so bad. Now he'll never get over that. That's
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: how I personally get through this. I've got no hating
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: me at him. I did my job and I couldn't
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: have done anything.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: That's the point, isn't it. It's the role of the
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: police to bring the evidence, put the offender before the court.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: What happens in the court is not your affair. I
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: know it's hard to say, but that's the truth, isn't it.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: It's the way to rationalize it. You've got to get
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: through life in shure. So I wasn't angry. I watched
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: him work out of court that day. You know, I
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: couldn't care less. Couldn't care less because I do believe
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: in come. There's probably a lot of other people. I
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: was getting lots of phone calls. Don't worry from angry police,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: very angry police.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. Yeah, I don't need that in my life.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: So you don't. You don't. And you've already experienced a
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: lot of drama, and we'll talk about that now. You know,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: you end up out of the academy. I'm skipping a
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: few steps, but you end up at out of the
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: academy and you bring up some issues of corruption that
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: you felt were important.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Yep. What happened, Well, it didn't go well. It didn't
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: go well for me. I made a pretty serious complaint
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: to the Internal Affairs Division, which is the internal coppers
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: that investigate internal problems. That's the short story. I won't
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: go into the big story, but that's the short story.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I've never been into internal affairs ever. In fact, we
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: always sort of look at them as our enemy, the
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: working police, you know, because they come out and investigate
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: some bullshit and they end up charging with not putting
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: a correct diary entry. You know, I'm not signing the
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: car out or whatever. They're not policing in my view,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: you join the police to deal with criminals, not to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: deal with cops. Corruption. Yes, absolutely, but this other shit
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: fucking spare me. Anyway. So I go in and I'm
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: in there for about four hours. I was angry. I've
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: got the tapes at home. I've listened to them recently. Wow,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: because it's been a while. Anyway, that kicked off a
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: series of events, a very long series of events, and
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: it ended up this is a summary. Of course, I
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: ended up being arrested by internal affairs and the senior
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: officer who was involved in this had a big, big
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: role in how I was treated. And I ended up
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: in map high security max prison.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: It's the Melbourne Assessment Prison.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: And that was all because I made that complaint. Now
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that's the short story.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: What was that like to go from catching crooks being
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: on that side of the equation to suddenly being in
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: the cells.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: It was scary because of the events leading up to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: me going to prison. I was in fear of my
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: life and I'm not saying that lightly. And so now
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I'm in the prison, a max security prison where the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: doors open could open at any time. So I'm thinking,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: if this high ranking cop are if I dropped his
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: name here. I'm not going to but because he's still
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: in the job, he could have links all through the prison.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Give him a hard time, Just go in and bash
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: him to fucking death. Oh you left the door open,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking, mate. It was the hardest
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: fucking period. I've been through some hard periods, mate, but
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: that was my hardest one. Fucking four weeks to that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Myself in that cell. They took me out maybe for
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: half an hour day, but not into the sun. You
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: go into an enclosure away from the sun's name, no
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: one talks to you, there's nothing. Guards opened the gate,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: no talk. I'd be there, gun, mate, the hair gar brother.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: No fucking close it again. You like a chat? I
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: do like it? You like your chat? Fuck it?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: When I got there, I said, can I at least
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: have a smart you go nap. I didn't know that.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: That was the time they banned smoking in their prisons,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and there was a fucking right on the other side
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: of the prison. About three days into my stay there.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I heard it from myself when I was in my
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: little cage. It's like a cage. I heard all the bullshit,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: and they came in and grabbed me out and get
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the fucking yourself. They just treated you like shit. Don't
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: care for your next cop you know whatever, They don't
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: give a fuck. It was hard, man. I was expecting
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: to die in there, I really was. And I don't
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: say that lightly.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: So how did that resolve itself?
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: In the end? That resolved itself? Again A very short summary.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I pleaded guilty to a very very very minor charge.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: I can't even recall it now, I'd have to research it.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: I've been arrested four times leading up to this, guilty
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: of spitting on side at the Canny court. And the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: judge gave me he said, I think you had enough bullshit.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: He's a few beers state going. That's all. I got,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: no conviction, nothing. It was designed, the whole thing was
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: designed for the listeners who don't understand to shut your
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: farking mouth. Shut your fucking mouth. That was the message,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: loud and fucking clear.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: And this was the start of a difficult period for
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: you with your mental health depression.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Fuck, who can we stand that? Well?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I fully I fully agree, I fully agree, And it
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: was tough and all thing we talked about in the
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: first episode of this podcast that camaraderie, that sense of
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: belonging in the blue family, backing each other up, feeling
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: inside that love was all gone.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: For you, Steve, you had to come to terms with that.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: The hierarchy sent a statewide media address with my photo
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: on it that everyone was aware of. I saw one
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: of my friends who hadn't abandoned me, said, Steve, this
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: came through my computer today. Are you okay? I got
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: that phone call. They were told stay away. If there's
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: any association you don't, you break it. He's dangerous, right,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: all this shit. So I'm hearing that I'm on completely
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the other side now. All my supposed friends and mates
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: that I thought I fucking had, that I'd gone through
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: brick walls over and through over the years, nap dropped
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: me like a fucking hotsky. Had think anyone would react
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: to that? Just total fucking abandonment. I didn't even get
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: a phone call. How are you? I was asking for
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: three words, that's it. How are you? Not even from
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: a fucking phone box? Nothing. It was just gusting, mate.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: I I fucking disgraced. It was broke me. I'm pretty
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: fucking strong, mate, but it fucking broke me. That broke me.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: So at the end of it all again, long story short,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I retired ill health in twenty eleven. I got locked
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: up in twenty fifteen at the Max Security. But when
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I retired in twenty eleven, i'd been through a fair
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: bit of grief because I made the complaint in twenty
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: eight so they had already been a couple of arrests
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: and bullshit at that point. I decided when I was
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: officially retired in twenty eleven, I flew that day. The
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: day I was officially it was March eleven to eleven,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: I already bought the tickets. I flew directly to LA.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: What was the purpose of that troops deve I wanted
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: to had I had three things to do three first one.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: First one was I wanted to meet Jimmy Taylor, James Taylor,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: the actor who played me in that movie Lucifer. Right,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: So I got to LA. We'd been We arranged it
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: through MSN in those days, and we met at a
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: bar in Santa Monica and I was staying in West
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Hollywood in some shit fucking joint anyway, got a taxi
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: down there. I was wearing broad shorts and a single.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I remember that he turns up pretty snappy. Anyway, we're there.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: He brings his girlfriend in and met her. But when
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: he walks in, it's a wine bar full of people,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Friday night, full of fucking actresses and music, a very
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: arty vibe. I didn't fit in, rough head ex copper. Oh.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I love the arts, don't get me wrong, but I
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: just said at the bar, I didn't fit in. I
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: was wearing broad shorts and shit, you know, thongs. So anyway,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: he walks in and I saw him straight away because
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I'm watching the door, and I walked to him. He
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: walked to me. It was like something out of a
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: fucking movie. Mate. We didn't say anything. He told Laura
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: and his girl don't sit over there, So that all
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: happens before we meet in the middle. Of course, he's
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: the same old it's made pretty much the same bill,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: not as good looking, but he's trying hard. And we
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: get in the middle and we just hugged each other. Mate.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Oh fuck him.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: All he goes made ahead of the fuck did you
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: get through all that shit?
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I still I don't know. I don't know, mate, But
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know that there's three years of bullshit I've
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: just gone through because I made that serious corruption complaint.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Doesn't know that. He's just talking about Lorima and he's crying.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: He's crying because the reason he's crying. I tried so
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: hard with my producer to come and see you. I
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to speak with you, see how are right? I
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: saw a vision of you that the news had that
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: goes underground and you could see you walking in out
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: of court and doing the odd press conference blah blah
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: for the coppers. But I wanted to fucking meet you,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: and his producer wouldn't. So we spent the night. We
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: dragg about a thousand fucking beers and I came good.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: So that was the night I met Jimmy. I wanted
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: to do number two stand up comedy five minutes Comics
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Lands Boys in North Melbourne. Mate. I was there fucking
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: twenty five hours a day. I was hanging on the
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: stand up to help me fucking survive anyway. I told him,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I said, I want to get up in LA. That's
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: that's going to be I want to start say. I
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: got up in It was my first stand up and
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: I did it in LA and they said fucking good
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: on you, mate. So they rang Adam Shandy in La
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: because they all know each other. A big comedy clubs
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: around the world, and the comics lands in North Melbourne
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: number one, fucking number one, the guys that run at
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Tiny and the Sun's Kings. If you haven't been there,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: go there anyway. That's in Eryl Street. So I get
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: to La, I meet Jimmy. Next thing off my list
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: is to do five minutes. So I go to Adam
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Chan's the owner of the one in West Hollywood, the
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: comedy store, very famous.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: A rock in there during the day. Adam Steve Boone
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: learn from Melbourne.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: He goes, Oh yeah, the boys of North Melbourne fucking
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: ring me, come in, come sit here. He goes, what
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: sort of.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Experience I made?
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I've been doing pubs, clubs, shit all over the place,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: then fucking Australia tatle rubbish, tatle bullshit. He goes, what
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: do you want? He said, five minutes? Do you want
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: to get paid now? I don't give a fuck a
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: bit money? Just throw me up mate over the last
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: yet see if I do it right, I might end up.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: It might be the next Jim Jeffries. He's looking at
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: his rough start because they've got the massive one, you know,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: where Jerry Seinfeld's will go or Mickey Flanning Big Ones
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: not there, but upstairs it's three flaws of comedy at
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: the same time. A thousand people will go there and
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: they will be spread out all through depending on who's playing,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: and any one night there'll be twenty comics. He puts
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: me in a room where it's about fifty capacity, right,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: which is not bad, not a bad number has to
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: start with. But most of the people that are in
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: there are comics themselves. That's a fucking odd ground. Oh yeah,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: that's a fucking hard ground. I said, can you put
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: me over here in the disability section? He goes, no, mate,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that's Adam Stan's working there. That I fuck. So I'm
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: over here in this one. I ring Jimmy Taylor. I'll
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: next Monday. I'm in that. I mean you four f
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: on the second floor. He goes, what's on? I said,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's me and eight other comedians. I'll
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: be on the list somewhere. He goes, all right, done,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: So I fucking think I'll walk out of the comedy
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: sat I think, fuck, I've got to cut up with
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: some futerial material. So I go back to my little
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: flea bitten room, and I had an analogue, No, it
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: was a digital little recorder. I'm pretty sure I've still
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: got the tape anyway. I mean i've got the what
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: do you call those notes you put on your computer posted.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I went and bought some of the and I sat down.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Don't steal anyone, No, I'm not stealing anyone, right, So
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: I hung some shit on the fucking who do you reckon?
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I hung some fucking shit on it.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: That stuff's Victoria Police. It would have been harmer List.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Just the police in general, you know, fuck the police.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: A couple of those ones. I did a surfing jack.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I did Hollywood plastic tits. So if Sheila and He's
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: got fucking massive plastics, what the fuck you know it's
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: going on there? And I can no one ever fucking
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: smiles there because the face was full of fucking plastic,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: you know, ship like that, just throw away fucking shit.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: A couple of couple of one minute stories. Now I
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: came out and hung shit on it. And the first
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: two were Americans. Hanging shit on the Americans. No fucking
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: laughs at all, No fucking fucking went down like a
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: lead balloon on the the fuck I've got still got
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: four minutes, right, So I switched it up and I
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: thought I was going to put this in at the end,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: a bit of bring it up the number two. So
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I did throw that in after the after I fucking
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: failed promoting the last one up the number two did
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: all right, got a few laughs, and then I've got
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Scott Beatt. So the last three minutes was good. First
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: two fucking no good. Okay, so you tick that off?
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: What was the third thing you were going to do?
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: The third thing I was going to do. I was
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: in La also because I knew I could get a gun,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: and I was going to fucking I'd had enough, mate,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: I had enough. I was going to shoot myself in
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: some fucking cunt room right in on Hollywood Boulevard where
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I was staying. I knew that I could get one.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: They fucking piece of piece. I could walk down the
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: street with twenty bucks and come back with the thirty eight.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I'd already sort of tried it. I hadn't gone last
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: the mate, mate, you know I can get a fucking gun.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I go up third shop and you know,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: from the Darra. So if I can get that from
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: the Darrow, I can get a fucking gun, piece of piece,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: and I knew that. I've been in La a few
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: times or Miami either one. No dramas at all. That's
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: what I was going to do. Mate. They've taken my
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: daughters off me. I didn't have them anymore.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Because your marriage had broken up and you were I
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: was never married to Mary, okay, but relationship were broken down.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because she a police officer and she's
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: getting all her intel from these other funck wits, so
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: she's she's getting you know, Steves in mentally, he is
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: not good. I wouldn't let your daughters near him, mad,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I'm the most lovely, fucking father that's ever fucking lived
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: this earth, you know what I'm saying. And she said,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: fucking that's the sort of person she is, you know.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Than Anyway, I went through all the court, bullshit, family court,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: tried everything, still fucking hard, mate. Anyway, I was trying
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: to go forward. But my daughters at that stage in
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: my life, all through this fucking life journey, they were
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: the best things that ever happened to me, and they
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: fucking removed.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: So what have I got for mate?
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I was trying to find sunshine, right, But it was
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: just fucking cloud. I couldn't There's no sunshine at all.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I just made the decision. I've had enough. I was
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: fucking made, I was wrung out, had nothing in me.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to leave any more, simple as that,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: so I wanted to fucking die. I was saved by
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: one man. Do you want to know that bit or not? Sure?
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: So on a Saturday night I went to I was
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: walking around Hollywood and I came across a very big
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: pub and I went in there and I got through
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: the big black bounce that he's six foot four. When
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: I watched him work, there's three floors in this pub, music, sport,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: all sorts of shit. He had ten security under him.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I caught up with him. I was only there for
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: two hours or say, but I felt I felt him
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: out on the second floor. I told him. I didn't
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: tell him I was a cop or was? I just said,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: fuck him and go to a tent. You know, any
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: drama here goes nah, I make sure there's no drama.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: How do you do that? He said, Well, I know
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: who's who in LA, So I don't want cribs and
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: bloods coming into the same fucking joint. So if Adam
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: shanned the crib wants to come in, and Steve being
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: land and the blood nat one of them is getting
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: the fucking or both of them they're not coming in,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: or one of them is whatever. And even then I'm
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: searching it. There's no fucking and problems he made, you know,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: so he was very good. And I said, how do
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: you know there's so many or man, he goes, I
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: grew up in South Central. Well, I've always had a
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: hard one for South Central. Mate. First time I went
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: to La from the airport, La Airport when I was
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: about twenty eight. I've had a fascination with it. A
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: lot of La Central centric kind of movies that there
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: was one there. Bob Robert Devell played a sergeant in
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: La which really hit me back in those days. He
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: got shot dead by a gang namber. But even recently
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Bosh is another one another series. I've really got into
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: La just La cops. You know, I've always been fascinated.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: So get in his cab, black driver, straight out of
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: the airport with me rucksack, and I said, take me
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: to South Central. He looked back at me, he goes,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: what's you fucking talking about? Cracker or what calling me
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a cracker. I said, I want to go to South Central.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: What's the fucking problem And he said, well, yeah, what
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: that's a big fucking problem, mate. I need to go.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: I want to see it. He's kind of cost one
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty catch up front now, otherwise I'm not
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: taking yet. I had to go back into the airport
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: at one fifty and give it to him. So he
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: fucking wanted the money because you know, that's how serious
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: he was.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Could he'd be cutting a dead body by the end
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: of it. They wouldn't be able to pay him anything.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Then he goes to the boot and gets out of
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: quite a big blanket and he says, put that on
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: your lap. If I tell you to get the fuck down,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: just fucking doyne answer me back, just fucking do it.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm getting a bit fucking concerned. This starts to
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: the right. Well, he took me to fucking Inglewood, Compton,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: the south side. It's a massive area, south Central, right,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I had no idea how big it is. And each
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: fucking this gang was going on in between a lot
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: of drugs and shit. So the intersections are massive, not
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: like our intersection. There's four or five six punchs bigger
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: over there in La anyway, not so much. So he
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: took me around quite a few times. He told me
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: to get down as he's approaching an intersection because you
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: could see one gang's on way over that side, one
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: gang's here. If there's some white piece of sheet in
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: the back, anything could fucking happen, could be a cop,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: fucking anything, right, So he told me to get down
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: quite a few times. And fuck mate, that was heroin.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: But you know he got through it. I saw most
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: of it, and he dropped me off at the hotel
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: twenty bucks a night, so I had an idea about it.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: So when he said that when this bout to bear,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: his name is Anthony Williams. He's a good friend of mine,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: has been ever since Anthony Bear Williams on Facebook. He
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: is a fucking king. I wrote my hotel my name
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: after watching him and assessing what he was doing that night.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I'm an expert, mate, I could say that I'm a
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: fucking expert in even what people are thinking before they speak.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I haven't worked you out just yet, but I fucking.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Will anyway, podcast I do the working out.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: So he was great. I knew I could I knew
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: there was something there. And remember, all I want to
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: do is kill myself, but I haven't got a gun
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: get it, So that's my fucking interest.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Do you think he's going to get a firearm for
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: it like that for five bucks?
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: No worry. So I write my name down where I'm
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: fucking staying, room numbered bullshit, bullshit, didn't have it. I
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: didn't have a nobile then, like an American number. And
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: before I left, I just got him outside and I said, look,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: I know you don't know anything about me because I
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: hadn't told him shit nothing. I just told him was traveling.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: That's it. I didn't trust anyone mate at this stage.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: That's why I fled. So I gave him the car
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: and I said, I'd really like to talk to you further, please,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: if you feel comfortable. That was it. I went home
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: or back to the fucking flea bitten room I was
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: in and got some sleep. Next day, I didn't get
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: a phone call, but I had previously when I got
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: to LA a couple of days earlier, before I met Jimmy,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: I'd gone out and bought a portable DVD player because
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: at that time the Tough Times interview that I did
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: had gone to air and I was able to get
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: DVDs of that interview, and I just wanted there was
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: something in me. There was no intent in buying that player.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I just thought maybe perhaps maybe someone might want to
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: talk to me and there might be a chance.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Or they might ask, and I'll just have it there.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: But I didn't buy it for him. It's a tough
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: times to interview. Was it something you'd done in Australia
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: before you'd left.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, that's exactly the timeline. It was two eleven
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: and if you watch that interview, which I have recently.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: This was to do with Laura and all of that.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was kind of life and times. And he
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: got to the end of it and he said, and
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: you've had some hard times recently, and I said, yeah,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at my face. I made him trying hard
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: not to fucking breakdown, because there'd already been a lot
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: of bullshit between two eight and two eleven. So just
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: after that interview and I'm officially off the books at
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: the Coppers, I'm in LA. That's the timeline. So next
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: day I'm looking out the window. I might have been
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: having a smoke on the balcony something like that, and
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: he rolls up gets out of the car.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Anthony Williams, Anthony, this guy.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: I couldn't fucking believe it. No, no phone call, nothing.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: He's only told me recently because I had a quite
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: a long video chat last week with him that he
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: said to his wife he lives in the valley and
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: I'm in Hollywood, so we're talking thirty forty minute drive
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: down the highway to get to me. He tells his wife,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: who has now passed away, that he's met a guy
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: from Australia and he needs to go and talk to him.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: His wife says, do you know who he is? What
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: the fuck right? Because he's been in not in and out.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Well he's been in prison, but he's living a clean
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: life now. But worried about him. Have you met him before?
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: No?
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Just many miths. What do you know about it? Nothing?
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Gave me your card? Why do you want to do that?
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: He said? He told me on the phone on the
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: video Facebook he said, he said, I've done. I just
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: had a I just had a feeling. I didn't know
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: what it was. I was curious. I wanted to find out.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: So he drove all the way in and I see
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: him drow it pull up. He walks upstairs, sitting in
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: the bed. I said, all right, bet all I can
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: remember in that room is that I told you that
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: I was an ex detective from Australia and I want
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: to show you this so that I don't spend four
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: hours telling you. It's condensed version on and it goes
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: for half an hour. He watches that and he's like, fuck, robbery,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I'm robbery, murder of cops.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: He's getting all this and he's thinking, all right, that's
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: what these think. And I'm sort of feeling, well, at
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: least someone knows my story because I'm going to shuit
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: myself probably by the end of the day. That's what
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking. Get it. At least someone here the cops
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: will track it back to him. He was here. And
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: the reason I wanted to do it in La was
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't want the fucking police involved in my debt.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Fuck then the police, the police in Victoria, mate, you
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: can only imagine right what they'd say to everyone. You know,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: there's no peaceful death, whatever the fuck bullshit they want
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: to come up with. I wanted to get written up
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: by the lap day and then fucking the truth with me,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: and he was kind of more link. No, no, no,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: that's not what happened. I'll tell you what fucking happened.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: So he does in this video call only two weeks ago,
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: last week whenever it was. We talked often, and I
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: said to him in that call, he falls short of it.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: I said, hang on, Beck, go back. So we watched
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: the interview. Your own words, not me. You tell me
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: what happened, because that's all I remember happening. We spoke
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: about the interview and he left. He goes, nah, that's
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: not how it went, mate, don't you remember. I said, no, no,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: this is the fucking, the really hard part. I don't
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: remember this, but there's a reason for it. So he
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: then tells me how he grew up in the ghetto
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: in South Central and at twenty three years of age,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: you did a pretty major bank robbery, three of them.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: And he goes through all that detail that I can't
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: remember in that room, but he's telling me now on
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: the phone video call two weeks ago, and I'm saying, fuck,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I don't remember any of that. I do remember you
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: said you did a stick up and you got nine
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: years federal prison. He goes, na nas more. Now, I
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: tell you all the details because I knew that you'd
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: get it, because you were asking me, you know what
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: sort of guns? How many fucking men in who jumped
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: the car? And I was asking all the dida, you're
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: doing another end interview, and so he gave that up
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: in the room through my questioning of him, But I
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: don't remember that. All I remember is him saying I
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: did an arm robbery and I've got nine years jail.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: They've had FBI pinched him.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: And then he tells you the key bit that you've
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: forgotten as well.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, so that's the lead up, and then the fucking
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: left hook is, which i'd forgotten and I had totally
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: blacked it out.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, all right, the arm robbery. You want
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: to get it. I understand that.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: So he goes, I can't tell you. The rest mates
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: sit up, saiding. I said, bet, this is fucking important, mate,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: it's really fucking important. He's crying. I'm fucking crying. He
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: goes n. I said, if I could punch through this
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: fucking fine now, mate, you'd be fucking dead. And he said, oh,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: what is it? When we're crying? He said, after I
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: told you about the arm robbery and what happened to me?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: You break down on the other side of the bed.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: We're by sitting on this ship bed. You break down
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: on the other side of the bed. I came over
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: and picked you up and fucking hug you. He's three
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: inches taller than me, and you break down in that
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: you fucking you were holding it together. You break down,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: and this is bear, He says. I asked you what's
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: going on? And you told me I want to shoot
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: myself and they had a fucking gun. I'm over it.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: I can't deal with it anymore. And he spent fucking
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: over an hour and a half consoling me in that room.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: I lost fucking eight kilos of crying and he was crying.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Oh mate, it was a fucking scene. No grog involved,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: no drugs, just fucking roar emotion and he saved you.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't shoot myself. I was still ask him. I
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: told him I want a gun, That's what I fucking want.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you did a drive. IM good on you.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck. You did your time.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: I want a gun. I want to fucking gard mate.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: I'm in pain. I'm in fucking bab So he goes Nah,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: you're not getting the gun off me. He said, If
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be responsible for you blowing your head off, now,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: fuck you. And he got He was like, fuck you,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: are you fucking serious? He just told me about your
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: life pretty much in the fucking I know it's fifteenth
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: You know you're better than that, Steve, You're better now.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: So no, there's nothing there for me. There's nothing left
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: for me, mate. I don't want to do it. I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: just want to fucking leave, mate. So he took me
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: out of that room and we went somewhere to straighten up.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: I can't remember that either, but we spent a few hours. Yeah,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: I've blocked all that fucking out. Yeah.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Well, and so it's quite understandable, quite understandable, Steve, that
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: you would you know, it wasn't the end of your troubles.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: You've struggled with the mental health since then, and depression
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: and post traumatic stress about these issues. But you're still here.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: And what I thought was a wonderful turn of events
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: for you was to discover that you had another kid.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: You discovered another kid, and you've thrown yourself into loving
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: that that boy. He's a good footballer. He's the image
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: of you. Yeah, so you found things to live for now,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: because unfortunately it still kills me. But I'm still kind
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: of I'm astranged from my daughters. That they avoid me,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: and I don't blame them because they've been fed a line.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: But no doubt the police force, they've got their narrative
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: and they may or may not believe it. I don't know,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: but no one's They've never come to me and said, dad,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: won't happen. That's never happened.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope I never give up.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: You shouldn't give up.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not. We're still in this little group. It's just
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: that it's just me and they don't respond anyway. Yeah,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: so that that situation with my son, part of the
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: split was nasty. She accused me of being with other women.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Didn't happen, didn't happen. I'm a loyal person, fucking loyal.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: But and then I'm sitting I got stood down. This
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: is the first start of it. I got stood down
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: for standing up and doing the right, stood down from work,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: and I'm at heart. I'm thinking trying to make sense
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: of what they're doing to me. And a love, a
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: life thing comes.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: On to ring love.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: I've meet women and other people. So I rang up.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: I'm Steve, I'm six foot two. I'd like to meet
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: a girl, right and then you ring back. You get
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: messages Hi Steve, you sound nice now you faund like
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: my sort of blake. I live in Cranberr I smoke. Oh,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: it's bring some whites whatever. Anyway, So I got this
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: message one day from a girl called Depp. She lived
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: on the other side of town and I didn't care.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: So I drove way over to the Broady area and
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: we met at a pub. She had a young daughter.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: We met three full times each time I drive over.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: We have a counter of meal Canada man to me,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: Canada mill. So we got to each other. I assumed
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: she was single. Why is she coming out and meeting
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: me in the pub at nighttime and dinner whatever. I
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: have a few drinks, So nothing went further than that.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: There's three or four dates. This is all confirmed by her.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: This is not bullshit by day, it's true. So one
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: day she brings me out of blue. Not not a
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: normal practice. I mean, weren't dating. It was just we met.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't even call it dating, it was just we met.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: So she brings me up this particular day and says,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: what are you doing? I said, you know, picking up
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: fucking dog shit in the backyard, trying to fucking find
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: some purpose in life. And she said, I'm about to
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: watch doctor Phil because if fascinates me that preck you
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: know whatever, I said, She said, why don't you come
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: over to my house and have a cup and sea,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: I said, your house is sure. What about your daughter?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: One of my friends is taken care of her. Okay,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: So before I put the phone down, I was over there,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: three thousand miles from hour I knocking on the front
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: door for a bit of company. So things happened that day.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: She threw me on the couch and that was that done,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: and then she kicked me out very quickly. Yeah, little
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: did I know that. I'll get to that in the moment.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: So that was that day one time, and then all
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: the other stuff that I've described in this interview that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: you've got me to confess to you, prick happened. I
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: never saw it again until I got a linked message
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: linked in. I got a message one day and never
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: got anything from it. Well, it was was a mobile number,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: nothing and it was from an unidentified account and was
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: please call That's it I'm thinking this would be so cruel,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: trying to set me up or confess or whatever whatever anyway,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: So I rang it from my phone box, not from
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: my phone. I flew to fucking clean out that Coen's
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: letting make that call mate, you know, because at that
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: stage I didn't fucking trust anyone.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: You flew that back Queensland.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: I'm joking, okay, somewhere far anyway, that's my sense of you.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: I made sure I made it fucking not identifiable that
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: it was reigned the number, and she said, you've got
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: a son. I said, what's who are you? You're like,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just seventeen years later.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: So I've gone through a whole heap of everything and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: more that I probably haven't said here tonight and all,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: and some shiploads of great stories. Yes, and I'm trying
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: to scan my brain, which worked like her computers. Hang on.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Computer says no, you know. She goes dead dead dead
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Debbie me. No, computer says no more information, like fuck,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: and she goes We met on Lava Light and you can't.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: We went to the pub four times and then I
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: asked you to come out. I still didn't fucking get it,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: and she said, you came over to my house and
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: we had sex on the camp. I said, now I do,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: now I remember, because I do remember that. I fucking
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: rememb good. I said there, Well, okay, have you been
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: She said, life's been pretty tough now, blah blah blah.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: I'll fast forward. She broke it down. She was married
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: when that happened with me, but she was married to
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: a slavic guy who was treating her very poorly and
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: a drunk assaulting her, et cetera. So she was looking
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: for an escape in her really bad, poor life with
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: this with this man, and that's why she rang Lava Laft,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: just looking for an escape. As I was in my
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: fucking lands room. Yeah, I was injecting fucking Johnny Walker whiskey,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: trying to stay alive. And that's how we met. And
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: so I didn't know that. She never told me that.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: If she had told me that, there's no way I
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: would have gone to her house because that's not me.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: But I didn't know that, So I did go, and
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: I'm fucking glad I did.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you did too.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Fuck.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's listen. We started in this interview about five
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: days ago talking about the book that you're going to write.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: This to me is, listen, life's not full of happy endings, right,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: but there are resolutions. Well, I agree, and when you
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: know I disagree with that.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Now I've got quite a few friends who fly to
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Thailand just to get happy endings.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: That's a different kind of happy ending. Go up, but
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: for you to find purpose again in your life. And
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: I see I met young Jack at your sixtieth birthday
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: last year, lovely young man. I see your posting about
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: his football, your relationship with him. Have you reached a
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: place where some of these things in the past are
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: now in a place where you can live with them.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: I'm at peace with all of it, even all the
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: bad stuff they did to me. I accept it. I'm
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: not angry at anybody. I was kind of pity it, really,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: I just I look back at it now. I was
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: angry at the time and all the emotions, and I
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: wanted to kill myself right in the in the game
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: at halftime. But now that I'm at the end of
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: the fucking game and Jack came in in the third quarter,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: aging Jackie Tullis in You're a fucking king. And it's
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: just been a gift from God. Now. The reason she
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: never told me about it earlier was this guy was right,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: fair enough. Yeah, but guess what happened to him again?
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: What he fucking had a heart attack. He took Jack
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: the cricket train and when he was six d had
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: a heart attack. There the grand fucking dead gone.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Then she goes, I'm going to ring Steve. I know
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Jack's Steve's and so she found out through LinkedIn that's
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: how it happened. Well, she didn't do it straight away
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: because Jack thinks that he's this guy that passed away
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: is the biological father. Yeah, Jack's growing up thing, and
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: that's his dad, even though he was an asshole and
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Jack saw him being an us up, but he still
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: thought he was his dad. Now he's dead at sixteen,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: then SIPs him down. It gives him a few months
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: to grieve that, and then sits him down and says,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you the real story now, I
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: think you're ready for it, and she gives it to him.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: I think I'm ninety nine percent sure, can't be a
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: hundred that this guy here is your father, right, And
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: she puts on the Tough Times interview and lets him
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: watch that puts on Lucifer, lets him watch that. All
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: this other shit that's afraid of him doing this blah blah. Right,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: so he takes all that in. He's a very very
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: smart kid, high IQ, funny as fuck. He's got. If
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: he's not doing what he's doing, he'd be stand up
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: committy money. He fucking breaks me up every day anyway.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Finally the day comes for me to meet him. I'm
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: at their house. He drives him with his grandma's grandma
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: drives his little car. She's about eighty. Jack gets out.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: He knows him there. He's just turned seven. And if
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: I'm right there, Jack, I think as he got out,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I fucking knew it in my heart. Mate, I've got
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: a sort of those front teeth there. Okay, that he's
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: fucking got the fucking muscles, the gardens there, he's fucking
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: six to two. It starts fucking hanging shit on me,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: like with him. Ten minute the he knew yours cover,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: I'm just break down. I hugg him and break don't
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: say anything. He had no emotion from him yet because
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: he's kind of in that area like who is this guy?
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Is it true? Yeah?
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: He cont withything everything in his life has now been
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: turned upside down. What he thought was true is suddenly
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: not on you. And now he's got this bike crying
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: on his shoulder, and I just shook his hand. I said,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: things are going to be mate. I guarantee you from
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: this point on, it's going to be fucking awesome. Life's
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: going to be awesome. And it has been. And that
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: is the moment we should pull up here. This book workshop,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: as I started talking about, is complete. You can send
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: me I'll send you an invoice and you can fix
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: me up from like plug.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: My TikTok because it really helps me.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's listeners. You can find Steve all over TikTok
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Ossie Patriot and he's all over there.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: There's a picture of my dog in my profile.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Can I give you last piece, the last piece of
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: advice about about about you telling your story?
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Do it in your book.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: Don't give it away for free, my friend, do it
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: in a book. I think it'll be fantastic. Look, Steve can,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: I say, Steve Can, I just in conclusion, sure, I
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: value your friendship, and I also value your service to
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: this state. You've been through the sweets and miss hours
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: and whatever. Peace and happiness you enjoy from here is
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: all yours. You've earned it. Thank you for coming on.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Can I just say no, you can't. This is the
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: end of the interview.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't speak to anyone else about this except you,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: and there's a reason for that. You are the best
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: at this and I only did with the best. Mate.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: That's the only reason I'm talking to you, because you
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: asked me a while ago. Many times I said, nah,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not ready, and when I was ready, I rang,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: I'm ready.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: And that's why I'm here. I very much appreciate that,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: Steve done. All power to you, mate, Congratulations, I'm getting
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: it all out. I want to see it in the
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: book form, though, don't give it away on TikTok. Done
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: not for free. Please. People want to hear this story
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: who are on TikTok, but you can find them on
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: TikTok as well.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Thanks Matt.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: If you've got a crime you want to report, please
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: for crimes top was one hundred of triple three, triple zero.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: You may not trust the police after you've heard all this,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: but you can always email me as well, Adam Channer
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: writer at gmail dot com. I will treat your information
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: with absolute confidentiality. But don't forget I'm also a journalist.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not a counselor, so I want to tell a story.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: But anyway, it's been a pleasure talking to Steve. I'd
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: love to hear your feedback on this one. This has
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: been Adam Chan for Real Crime. Thank you for listening.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what podshape really
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: cares about. Right now, There's thousands of people listening to
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: this show and our other True Crimes, and they're completely engaged.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: More than ten million Australians listen to podcasts each week.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: If you've ever thought about advertising your business in a podcast,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: there's a link to reach out in the show notes,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: or head to podshape dot com to book a free call.