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Emma Taylor: Public Speaking Hacks to Stop Being Boring · The BEYOND Podcast

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  Unknown: I always say to my clients, think about a speech or a presentation like a gift. Emma
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  Taylor, public speaking coach, with 21 years coaching everyone from MPS to entrepreneurs,
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  she's seen every speaking mistake and knows exactly how to fix it fast.
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  Actor trained. Emma gives real world public speaking and comms hacks that work.
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  Instantly from wedding toast to boardroom pitches. You want to hear this one and
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  make that bold statement. As long as you're not barking this thing, you know it's tone.
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  Exactly. Tone makes such a difference. As long as tone as the tone feels right. If you put
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  controversial headlines out the head, do this or you'll die, then that's really gonna Okay.
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  And, and advise. Advisable and just,
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  um, the right thing to do to get help and to improve this, just the same way you would
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  shop in any other skill. You know, this is an very important life skill, public speaking.
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  Thanks Emma, for coming on. Um, you've got an incredible set of skills that I know everyone
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  listening will benefit from, and I'll call those and correct me if I'm wrong. Public
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  speaking skills, presentation skills, how you speak, skills, how would you frame it?
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  The whole thing of performing? Yes. Even, even on a, on a, a online stage like this.
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  Yeah. I would say I, I call what I do, public speaking, and I think there's the public speaking
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  that we all assume is a person on a stage. Yeah. That's the real. High end all singing,
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  all dancing, public speaking. But then equally, I would say, when you speak in a public environment,
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  so if you are in a meeting and like a Zoom call and you make a contribution or a Zoom call and
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  there are more people present, or you're in a larger meeting, I don't know, you.
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  A parent's evening and you just want to ask a question. So you put your hand up and there's
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  a room full of people. Yeah. Now, in that moment you are not making a presentation,
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  but you are public speaking. You're speaking in public. Speaking in public, and as we are
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  speaking in public online. So this will go out and people will see the way that we communicate and.
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  Feel free to, uh, to tear a pot the way that I present. I mean, I always feel it's,
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  it's so good to learn and it's so wonderful to meet experts in their field and people that
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  really know their craft. And it, I mean, you've been doing this 21 years. I have,
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  yes. It shocks me. You really, really experienced, you work with actors, lawyers, politicians.
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  Yes. I mean. Um, a real array. I mean, surveyors, chess players, I mean,
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  that's the beauty of why chess players. Well, I think this person had to go and give a talk.
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  She was gi, she was a chess professional. Right. And she also runs a school for children learning
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  chess. Yeah. And there was some conference and she was asked to give a speech at.
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  And so from being someone who's an expert at chess, to suddenly be, you know,
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  a conference where you've got daunting. A thousand people to speak to. I mean, that's a,
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  that's a huge Yeah. Task. So, so that was a really lovely speech to help somebody prepare and then,
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  and then get over. But no, it really is, um, I do run the gamut of clients and actually,
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  I would say in one sense, that's what makes my job interesting.
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  Mm-hmm. Because the skills. Don't particularly change,
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  but the people do. Yeah. And yeah, the types of speech that they need to give
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  are always very different. Yeah. The politic politicians just wanna skirt around the thing,
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  but in a way they've gotta do. So if, if there's something very controversial
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  and they don't want to answer, they have to politely move away or gently steer from that.
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  Well, they should address the question and then get onto their key message then,
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  then you're training some of, some of them. Some of them definitely need your training. Yeah.
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  Because it becomes really annoying when they don't actually answer when they do. Yeah. So
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  they're being probably given the, the wrong advice there, I would say.
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  But, but yes. And then you've got CEOs and then you've got just someone who's trying
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  to have the confidence to put their hand up in a meeting or to speak up in a Zoom call,
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  which you know, can also be scary. And it can be quite intimidating when you've got all these
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  people looking at you and it's. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the difficulty about the Zoom call.
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  It's not just that you've got a lot of people there and that's if they've got their cameras on,
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  but it's the closeness of the screen. Yeah. I did some work a couple of years ago at,
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  um, a solicitor's firm in Leeds, and the week before I went in,
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  they had a psychologist to go in. And give a talk about, well, I don't particularly know.
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  I mean, it couldn't have exactly been public speaking, but it doesn't matter.
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  But she was saying the reason why so many of us. Dislike speaking. Mm-hmm. Virtually
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  is because when you are on that meeting and you've got 16 faces on the screen,
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  they're right up against you. Staring, staring at you. Imagine if that happened in real life.
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  Life, it would be absolutely petrifying. Yeah. And then of course there's the
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  lack of feedback. Or with the zoom call, it's any little facial muscle
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  or someone yawns maybe 'cause they are a little bit tired or lucky in oxygen.
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  And then your mind just starts to run on and well potentially catastrophize.
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  Totally, totally. And it's okay. And, and advise. It's advisable and just,
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  um, the right thing to do to get help and to improve this, just the same way you would shop
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  in any other skill. You know, this is an very important life skill, public speaking. Yeah,
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  absolutely. And it always amazes me that people assume it's an innate.
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  Talent. Now for some people it is, you know, Barack Obama was always going to be a great
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  public speaker. Michelle Obama, however, had to work at it. Oh right. And you can work at
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  it. You can learn technique with structure. Thinking about how, how am I gonna structure
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  this speech? So many people are so quick just to rush and come up with a PowerPoint presentation.
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  That's no good. The speech needs to have a journey. It needs to have some flow. Then after
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  that, of course thinking about delivery technique so that sometimes you're still, sometimes you're
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  moving that the face, the emotional organ is selling the message that your pace is
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  right. That the range is good. So that we don't have that, you know, monotone as we're talking.
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  Yeah. And again, that can, that can be taught. So I think. Children that have been to schools
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  where there is a debating society, and then those children that do get involved
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  in drama as well are at an advantage. They're learning these skills from a very early age,
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  but for those of us, for. That weren't taught debating at school.
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  Yeah. And maybe there wasn't that fantastic drama club, or There was, but our parents
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  couldn't afford to, to let us go. We then have to come to it a little bit later in life. Yeah,
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  we need to, and pick up, pick up those skills. But you can pick them up and it's up to you to
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  embed them. I mean, the difference between what a, a public speaking can do for a person is, is huge.
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  Now, if you think about someone like JFK,
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  you know, most of the great politicians of the world. Anyone who's, who's sort of advanced in
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  business has had to learn that as well when they get in front of these huge crowds, um,
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  you can move a massive audience. Yeah. Just with the tone of your voice, can't you? Oh, absolutely.
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  It's crazy. Yeah. Pace and tone and knowing when it's nice to use that chess voice. And then other
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  times when you're selling ideas to keep it speedy and be in the head and sing a little bit more,
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  and then too. To measure it, to change between the two. Oh, that can be really
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  effective. Okay. So what we're gonna do, we have so many questions to get through and,
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  um, they're all valuable and I wanna get through as many as we possibly can.
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  How are we gonna get through this question? We're gonna get through them somehow. Uh,
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  but we'll, we'll take a one by one and just go, because Okay. This is the way, these are
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  the questions that people are asking, and I know that if we can get them answered, we are totally
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  giving value to our audience and everyone can get, can get better at public speaking.
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  And we're all about giving value. We're all about giving value and,
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  and we want people to watch this episode and learn from this episode and become way
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  better at public speaking. Okay. That's basically is a simple goal. Let's see.
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  Let's see if we can do it. Okay, well, you've got two generally, generally good.
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  You're a, you're a better, more professional speaker, but you know,
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  we'll, we'll see how we. Yeah, and can we get, this is a challenge for us. Can we
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  get through this volume? Okay. Let's go from the first thing. What's the biggest public
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  speaking mistake people make? Not really thinking about who you're speaking to.
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  I see so many presentations where you can feel that the presenter is just rolling out
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  what they've always done, rather than thinking, who's this audience be an audience of five or 35.
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  What do they care about? What do they need to know? And therefore tweaking my presentation.
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  Appropriately rather than just doing the same old sales presentation that they always do.
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  You know, it's a case of getting rid of this section and these slides,
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  but actually this audience will probably benefit from knowing X. So I'll put in
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  some other fresh material there. So it's not always about having to start from scratch.
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  This is what people fear. You know, I haven't got the time to write it all from scratch.
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  It's fine. But as long as you. Adapt it so that the audience feels the presentation is
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  absolutely relevant and more than that, that the audience feels that it was considered when that
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  presentation was being crafted. I always say to my clients, think about a speech or a presentation,
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  like a gift. When you are on the receiving end of a gift, you can feel if you've been considered.
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  When this gift was purchased. Equally, you can feel if someone just grabbed that bottle of
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  vodka from the local off license and thought that will do, and you are not even a vodka drinker,
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  you know, it's got to feel pertinent to the audience. That's very powerful.
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  'cause I asked you what's the biggest mistake we make when we speak in public?
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  You know, a person makes. And it's not about what the person is speaking,
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  how the person is speaking, it's about the message to the other person, what they're receiving,
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  rather than what you're saying. How you're saying whether you're standing,
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  breathing like this or high tone, low tone. That's crazy. It's about them.
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  And sometimes it's funny here today you are being a host. Sometimes I'll say to my clients as well,
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  think about that. As a host, imagine someone's coming into your home. How
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  would you treat them? You would make that evening go in such a way that's
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  gonna make them feel comfortable and they're going to go away.
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  Having had a good time now, a, a speech isn't all about having a good time. Mm-hmm. I appreciate
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  that. But it's about them knowing that their needs, needs had been met and that they'd
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  been considered. Yeah. I suppose you're saying something for a reason. You're,
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  you're delivering a message that's hopefully of importance that the person is receiving that
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  needs to receive it for whatever reason, so you have to make sure that you're considering them.
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  I love that. That's, that's why you're on this is incredible. Okay, so if you just had 60 seconds
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  to give someone a tip that transforms their speaking, what would it be? Mm. There are two,
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  but it's got to be one. In which case, I'd probably say work on your eye contact. We always
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  talk about connection and I would say aside from the voice, you have to have a voice in order to.
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  Speak the next important technique. The next way of really conveying a message
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  is by seeing your audience. Let them know that you have seen them. So many speakers, though,
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  their eyes are anywhere, their, at their notes screen, looking around the hall or just sort of
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  fading out. You know, it, it, it's dreadful.
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  Let your audience, regardless of the size of it, know that you. Seeing it. Gosh. So
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  sometimes seeing that room as a big circle, other time zone in speak to
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  the five to 10 people. Yeah. Contact that. It's a sitting in a certain pocket of the
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  room. Contact, connect with them and then have some one-to-one eye contact.
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  If your audience is less than say, yeah, 70, then that's possible. Okay. And make sure you
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  see everybody. And it's not just about the people that are directly in front of you,
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  it's also about the people in the awkward pockets. Making sure that
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  you physically turn round and you acknowledge their existence.
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  And of course in a Zoom call you can't do that, but you might refer to someone
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  or you might acknowledge them. You know, there's, there's something as well about customer service.
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  You know, if you at, you know, in a queue to check in at the airport or whatever, it makes
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  such a difference when the person who's actually serving everyone looks up and acknowledges.
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  Which is acknowledges it, doesn't it? Yeah. It's a little look. It's very simple. Simple and
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  very human. Yes. Such good advice. And the thing is, when you do that to an audience,
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  then it looks at you, it gives you its full attention. Yeah. Whereas if
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  an audience feels that you haven't got your eye on it, well then they'll look.
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  They don't owe you anything. They don't, they'll look around. They'll get their phone
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  out. Whereas when it knows you are looking at them, it's less likely to. Okay. And then this,
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  this one's interesting. It's, it's a question about trying to get a message across, you know,
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  let's say 30 to 60 seconds. Mm-hmm. You know, you don't have a lot of time, you don't want to,
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  I mean, I'm, I'm quite conscious of this as well, but in a Zoom call, you don't want to
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  ramble on too long, but how can people sort of, is there a way to test how long you're speaking?
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  How can you be aware of how long you're speaking? Should you be thinking about.
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  You know, I, you know, I'm going on a bit. How, how do you measure? I think the second you think,
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  am I going on a bit? You probably are going on a bit. That's a good, that, um, somewhere. Yeah.
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  I mean, it always depends on what it is you are, you are trying to get across, you know?
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  So sometimes the 30 seconds will be too much for a particular point. Other times,
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  two minutes won't do a point justice. But my rule is when you. Open the contribution
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  to have a statement to open with a nice, clear statement. You know, I dunno. Um,
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  tipping in restaurants needs abolishing and waiters need to be paid a proper wage.
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  That's the statement, right? Love. Then after that, you will illustrate it. You'll say, why?
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  That's true. And then you'll finish, you'll round off neatly. Um, 'cause what we don't like or,
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  or, or what never feels good in a meeting and we've all done it and we've all witnessed it,
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  is when someone does start to ramble and they go on a bit and you think, yeah.
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  And everyone's like, is this where it's gonna finish? And then they're going a bit more and
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  you think, I think I've heard this before. And they just know. That you are going to end,
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  and that can sometimes just be by repeating your statement, you know,
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  so for that reason, so that's why I say tipping needs to stop.
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  We need to pay waiting stuff. Okay. I love it. Okay. So it's a story a Yeah. Or a
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  message sandwich, if you like, with with your illustration in the middle. That's
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  the filling and in a way that is filling. And you've got the statements either side,
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  just like newspaper headlines. Yeah. Big story. Oh, definitely detail.
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  But you close. Yeah. And if you can just start embedding that habit. Well,
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  okay, so we, we need to think a little bit more about mm-hmm. Our structure,
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  you know, having a, a story to tell, even if it's a little, a little point.
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  A little point. The point it deserves a, a structure as well, is what you're saying.
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  Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. The eye contact. Mm-hmm. And then considering who we speaking to
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  so that we know to the best of our ability that they're receiving the message in the
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  right way. That, yeah, that it's relevant to them. Okay. Already. I feel we're making a
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  good point. Okay. So if someone wants to try smart, you know, sound smarter, let's say.
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  Mm-hmm. More, um, or maybe authoritative, like just more, you know, wants to sound like a leader,
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  whatever you want it to be. Is there a way, something simple that they can do with their
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  voice, with their body language to command a bit more, you know. Authority or whatever you
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  wanna call it. You know, I mean, leaders come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, don't they?
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  I think
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  excitement sometimes when you're selling an idea, enthusiasm, passion,
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  when you are in sales mode or you're trying to be. Persuasive. I always think about Professor
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  Brian Cox and his physics. Yes, yes, yes. Love. I mean, if he wasn't love him and if
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  he wasn't as enthusiastic about it as he is, he wouldn't have the following.
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  He gets no part. Part of it is inspired by, by his personality. Oh, he loves it.
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  So I think where you, where you are genuinely. Genuinely passionate and excited about something,
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  really let that show other moments if we are looking to be authoritative.
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  It is about being able to have the difficult conversations, of course.
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  Mm-hmm. And mentioning the elephant that's in the room and doing it with steadiness. So again,
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  thinking about being composed slow pace. Making people's eye contact then that, I mean, that's
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  really important when you are delivering a harder message. Oh, that's good advice. You know, you
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  might mean it. There's also things going around, I, I find these quite interesting, actually.
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  Little clips on TikTok social media about, um, certain words that we can use,
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  certain phrases that, or that we shouldn't use. Right. That make us sound a little bit,
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  you know, like we're not really sure. And um. It doesn't give that credibility stamp. Oh, you know,
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  like kind of thing kind of thing. Yeah. Sort of the qualifiers.
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  Yes. Those words try and get rid of them. Why do you do that? What? What that of Why is itis,
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  what is it? I dunno. Sometimes if it's a bit cultural in that to be too strong. The point
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  doesn't feel very British that we'd say kind the point of it. The point because
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  we think that was more gentle and I think that's why women do that as well.
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  Yeah. 'cause otherwise you might come across as as being strident,
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  but I think it's absolutely fine to take away the qualifiers and make that. Bolder
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  statement. As long as you're not barking at the state, you know it's tone. Yeah,
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  exactly. Tone makes such a difference. As long as Totally as the tone feels right.
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  But I mean, one thing, and it's similar to the qualifiers, try and get rid of the fillers,
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  the uh uh, um, I think those hesitations can give people. The feeling that you don't really
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  know what you are talking about. And for so many people, it's just a habit. I know people they'll,
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  they'll err at the end of sentences or they'll finish a sentence and they'll say,
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  you know, you know, or, you know what I mean?
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  You know what I mean? And it's just, yeah, it's just habit,
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  you know? You know, literally I said it just now, when I edit these podcasts,
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  I have a look and I'll go through the podcast and then I notice them. Because I look how many
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  M's. Are there. Hmm. And you know, you know, you know and kind of maybe sort of, you think.
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  Seriously, I didn't even, I didn't, I wasn't aware that I did it as much
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  as I do. Yeah. I was not aware of that. I thought, I'm actually pretty good. I don't
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  go, um, too much. You know, I think they'll all, they'll always, they'll always be some,
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  and don't beat yourself up too much. But there are some speakers who just.
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  Uh, and, um, and, you know, you know, yeah, it's really, and, and then the problem with
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  that is not only do people then potentially lose confidence, they start looking out for the,
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  uh, uh, the, you know, the, so Oh, so it's like an infection. So, yeah. Okay. Another thing, uh,
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  uh, uh, uh, uh, no, we won't do that. Should you rehearse, uh, before doing speech,
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  should you rehearse before going into a Zoom call, how much practice do you need?
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  Or does that make you. Robotic. Yeah, I think it completely depends on the speech. I mean,
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  I would say going into a Zoom call, no, it might not be a bad idea. You know, as I said before,
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  if you're making points just to say aloud the statements, those. Messages that you want to
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  convey, say the statement out loud a few times that you know you can really get your mouth
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  around them and that there's not a word in your head that you think you are going to use that has
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  five syllables, and then as you try and say it, you're, you know, you're dropping all over it.
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  Best to sub substitute that with a one or two syllable word. Yeah, but no,
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  keep it. Keep it nice and relaxed. Then as you are. Illustrating why you've made
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  that statement in a Zoom meeting. If you've got a keynote speech Yeah. You've, you know,
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  in that context, then absolutely. You've got to get through it.
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  You've got to get it on its feet and, and go through it a few times and go through it. And
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  particularly I'd say the opening and the close,
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  that's the most important thing. If you can work from a few bullets or prompts mid speech,
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  because yes, I know this section and by this stage, adrenaline. I'll have died down.
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  I'll be feeling calm. Great. You know, that, that's not so vital. But I would say getting
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  the beginning and the ending right is, is key. Okay. Let's talk about this keeping
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  calm thing. So I remember as doing a lot of speeches as a child and public speaking
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  festivals, I, I love that, but it was like a nervous energy and I love stress in a really.
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  Weird way, but I remember feeling the, the intense nerves and things,
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  and I think the only thing that ever helped me with that was, was breathing. Yep. Yeah,
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  I mean, there are lots and lots of techniques. The two that I find most beneficial myself are
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  to remind myself, I've done my preparation for one. Okay, that's, that's so important.
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  If I know, I've put in, let's say it is a keynote speech, and I know that in terms of thinking about
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  my topic, structuring the speech, getting my visuals together, rehearsing it a few times,
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  I've probably put in six hours of work there. Yeah, I mean, you've not done it in a block,
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  but, but bit by bit. And as you've been driving along thinking about it, six hours of work.
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  That's a lot of work. Yeah. So remember, remember that. And then the next thing is,
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  as you say, breathing as you are waiting to go on,
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  breathe properly. I've been practicing yoga for, well, more than half my life now. Awesome. And
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  in Pranama, what's always key is that. Your exhalation is longer than the inhalation.
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  So say you breathe in for four, hold it for two. There's that
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  place where you're need inhaling or exhaling. Yeah. Now exhale for six
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  in for, and then you can, you can exactly. You can make that in for seven. Hold for two, hold out
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  for nine. Just make sure the exhalation is longer and that. Okay. Not only is it calming,
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  it's also preparing the whole respiratory system for the job that it's got to do,
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  but also it does bring down blood pressure.
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  So there's so many perks to that. And let me tell you what I do as well. I marry
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  this then with. Preparation, reminding myself about the preparation. So on the inhalation,
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  I'm saying to myself, I have done my preparation internally, not out loud. And
• 24:48
  then on the exhalation I say, I am prepared. So the mantra is I have done my preparation.
• 24:55
  I am prepared and let that happen a few times and that, that relaxing treat for me. Yeah.
• 25:03
  Thi things though that, that other people need to be aware of is just tension. So many people,
• 25:10
  when we are tense, it goes to the, and the neck,
• 25:13
  the shoulder all round here. Yeah. And of course you need your larynx to, to work well.
• 25:19
  Yeah. It gets so tall. So it's about being able to. Release that tension. Is that why people have
• 25:24
  this nervous? Yeah, it's because for some people it's, it's all around the neck. People. It's very
• 25:30
  much in the jaw, quite a male thing for it to be in the jaw. Yeah. Around here. So listen, outside
• 25:38
  of public speaking, what I'd say is well is when you find yourself in moments of.
• 25:42
  Attention, you know, things aren't going to where you're a bit scared.
• 25:45
  Think about what's my body doing? Where is that tension? Like this? Yeah. And
• 25:49
  get into the habit then of, of being able to release it quite quickly. Oh,
• 25:56
  therapy. Therapy. I just did something which was interrupt you. Ah, so let's talk about that.
• 26:01
  How can you. Politely interrupt someone. And let's actually, also,
• 26:05
  whilst I'm asking this question, talk about P Morgan. I'm sure you know him. Yeah, yeah. He's
• 26:09
  wonderful at interrupting people and um, it's a normal thing for him and
• 26:12
  it's part of the show. How come he gets it right? Is that because it's his brand?
• 26:16
  And is it okay to interrupt people? Well, I think most of the time when people interrupt, they're
• 26:21
  doing it 'cause they're excited and they agree with somebody. And as long. As you are aware that
• 26:30
  that's it and you still want them to finish their sentence, you can, you can chip in and then say,
• 26:35
  but go on. You were telling me about that's a good way that, and that's absolutely fine.
• 26:41
  I think rarely do people do it, actually, because it's been fueled by arrogance that
• 26:47
  they think they've got something better to say. Usually it's just under, by excitement,
• 26:52
  I mean. We should probably try and wait it out and let the person finish and then come
• 26:57
  in. But let's not beat ourselves up if we, if we are interrupting for the right reasons.
• 27:02
  But sometimes it's go on sometimes and, you know, and in podcasts as well,
• 27:07
  I can't, I can't let people carry on and on. So you go, you know, ah,
• 27:12
  is that because they're rambling? Sometimes? They're rambling. They might be going off
• 27:16
  piece. Are they in their own world? Well, that's different if they're going off piece.
• 27:21
  If, if we are no longer within the realms of the discussion, they've gone different.
• 27:25
  I think always say the name. This is, you know, meetings. Say the name,
• 27:28
  it get gets their attention. Say, thanks for that now, and then something different. Okay. Okay. I,
• 27:35
  I'll use that. I'll use that. Voice. Let's talk about that.
• 27:40
  Mm-hmm. Should you be warming it up? I know singers do that, but for speech before Zoom,
• 27:45
  if you don't want that, is there something you can do? Yeah, I mean,
• 27:49
  absolutely. I'll tell you something that I always find incredible. So you'll have actors
• 27:57
  say at the Edinburgh Festival, and they're going out and they're playing to houses of.
• 28:02
  Six people sometimes. Yeah, I've done it. Yet they will still warm. They still up their voices.
• 28:10
  Conversely, you'll have CEOs who are going out to conferences. Whether a thousand people in the
• 28:17
  hall, they won't, but they won't even think to do it. So absolutely. When you have that large
• 28:22
  audience and there's no amplification or little amplification, you should warm up your voice.
• 28:29
  So hummings a great thing to do. Just hum along to some music, music. Beatles ballads
• 28:36
  put on a Beatles ballad and hum along to it in the car, and that really starts to warm up
• 28:42
  the voice and it helps the breath as well. And then other things that are nice to do,
• 28:46
  tongue twisters. Warm up the articulators because even if you do have amplification.
• 28:53
  Getting your mouth to move round your words can be tricky. I mean,
• 28:59
  I had that today. Yes. And you think it's not even a particularly difficult word,
• 29:04
  but for some reason the doesn't journey to go from E to O maybe isn't there,
• 29:10
  and that's why there's sound. Okay. So like she sells seashells on a seashell.
• 29:14
  Really? Yeah. Red, I yellow shell The cheese. Oh, red lre. Yellow Lre is a
• 29:18
  brilliant one. Red lre yellow. 'cause it's so tricky. 'cause what you're asking your
• 29:21
  mom to do is make two very different shapes. Yeah. There's lots of air. Yeah. Oh, air. And
• 29:27
  actually it's that journey making that shape that just becomes too tiring.
• 29:32
  Hence why the sound Yeah. It, it starts to, it starts to go. Um, but if you can. Conscious thing,
• 29:38
  I'm gonna make the effort at oh oh, red L yellow Laurie, red Lori yellow Laurie, red L, yellow
• 29:44
  Laurie. Then you're getting a really nice. Warm up now, bro. Critiques. Yeah. And this is what I say
• 29:51
  is vary them. 'cause if all you are doing is she sells seashells, you're gonna get good at it fast.
• 29:56
  Yeah. Yeah. I'm, that's not the point. I'm very good at that one actually. I
• 29:58
  can challenge people with that one. It's, it's about, yeah, about changing them so
• 30:01
  that you're constantly being exercised. Okay. So you'd spoke about preparation and that's
• 30:06
  something that you inhale, I'm prepared, you know, I know that I've done that.
• 30:10
  Um, but can you also still. Fake a confidence on stage if you are really scared. Oh,
• 30:18
  yes. And I suppose the good news is most symptoms of adrenaline are not visible
• 30:25
  people. People can't see, oh, your heart. People can't see the heart actually. True, true. Um,
• 30:33
  the sweat, they weren't necessarily, they not, they, they won't necessarily see.
• 30:36
  That the drawing mouth you might have. Ah, now that what we can speak about that,
• 30:40
  that's a separate thing. So when the symptoms aren't visible,
• 30:45
  as long as you go out there and you look at your audience and you give
• 30:49
  them a nice smile and you take your time, you. Keep that introduction nice and slow,
• 30:55
  and you've warmed up so you're not gonna trip on your first line, which would be dreadful.
• 31:01
  Then five minutes later, that adrenaline will pass and everyone will think, oh, isn't she
• 31:07
  fantastic? And you were from the start. You know, that's, that's easy. So yes,
• 31:13
  you can absolutely fake it. Okay. And I think you should. Okay. And of course,
• 31:17
  the more you do a fit, the less daunting it it becomes as well. And I think that's the problem
• 31:21
  for so many people that come to me is that they're only doing it once or twice a year.
• 31:26
  Okay. So it does become such an exceptional It's a big deal. Occasion. Yeah. When though the symptoms
• 31:34
  are visible. Now that's something different of you feel the red, of course. Redness. You feel
• 31:38
  the red going, yes, you anxious. Anxious. Lots of people have it and I have had it in my life. Yeah,
• 31:44
  I think in those situations I would ask a friend, a good friend to tell you how red it is.
• 31:51
  So if, if you're not particularly red, then you can get away with it.
• 31:56
  But I know when I was at drama school, I had, there was a call, a girl, woman,
• 32:01
  now girl on my course and. Before she'd go on stage, she was scarlet and you could actually
• 32:10
  see it rise from her neck to her hairline. Pus it? Yeah, it died down quite quickly.
• 32:18
  But people who sweat a lot or who have the jittery, shaky, ery, the jittery hands. Now with
• 32:24
  the sweats and the red face, I would say if it bothers you that you know your nerves betray you,
• 32:31
  then the best thing to do is probably to draw attention to it yourself and say,
• 32:36
  now look. You can probably see I've gone a bit heavy handed with the blusher.
• 32:41
  This has nothing to do with the fact that my heart is racing presently. And they'll, they'll know it,
• 32:47
  you know, address it. Okay, address it, maybe make a virtue of it. And then with the hands,
• 32:52
  the shaking hands, use them. If you can sort of. Press out the shake by making some nice,
• 33:01
  sharp gestures as I'm doing now you get rid of that shake.
• 33:06
  Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So that's make the sharp gestures. Make the small
• 33:10
  fists. Yeah. And then as that calms down, you can relax and make more natural gestures. Oh,
• 33:16
  that's interesting. Okay. So you can possibly address it. Okay. And what's your go-to three part
• 33:23
  formula for a talk that people. Actually remember, oh, I'm not sure I've got a three part formula.
• 33:31
  Um, well, I think a, a good opening and close and something that's bold now,
• 33:39
  that means you're taking a risk and lots of people are nervous to do that, you know,
• 33:45
  to end with the story. Just to, to end in such a way, punch that, yeah, a punch. Something
• 33:52
  that they're not quite expecting. That is inspiring. I think that's really important.
• 33:58
  I think that.
• 34:04
  Everything you are stating or maybe asking for needs to be plausible. Okay. Okay. Um,
• 34:13
  yeah. You don't always think, yeah, right. Well, nice idea,
• 34:16
  but that will never work. Yeah. Saying something irrelevant. Maybe run it by someone before you,
• 34:22
  if possible. Bit of market research. Exactly. I would call it. Exactly.
• 34:26
  What do you think? Exactly. Think the other thing I would say is always come mean slightly
• 34:28
  under time. Mm-hmm. You know, if you're given 30 minutes to speak, speak for 25,
• 34:34
  it's not a, a. Test of endurance. No one's gonna tell you off if you haven't filled
• 34:41
  every single, every single second, every second. Make it a really good 25 minutes.
• 34:45
  And then if they wanna ask questions, they can. And no one ever begrudges having a slightly longer
• 34:51
  coffee break in my experience. That's good advice too. That's good advice. And, uh, for
• 34:56
  the modern Zoomers. Who want to use a PowerPoint presentation. Yeah. And we hear the same death by
• 35:01
  PowerPoint. Yeah. And I do use PowerPoints, you know, for, for clients and things.
• 35:06
  Uh, and um, the people that work with me use them. But I, I'm always afraid of the PowerPoints 'cause
• 35:13
  I find them very. Boring and, uh, are we, I try and keep them very minimal. Yeah. Are we talking
• 35:19
  about on Zoom now? We Yeah. Do. Yeah. So you're, you're presenting, you know, also it doesn't
• 35:23
  matter in real life as well, but you've got that PowerPoint because you have to show a graph or you
• 35:28
  wanna show some statistics or, well, I, what my view is for a graph statistics, a table, a photo.
• 35:36
  Mm-hmm. If it's going to add value to your point,
• 35:40
  then it's absolutely fine. In fact. Go for it. Why? Why wouldn't you? What I'm not so keen on is,
• 35:47
  let's imagine we've got that Zoom presentation and the second the presenter says hello,
• 35:53
  bam. We're in the zoom. Yes, we're in Zoom. Yeah. And they become that tiny box.
• 35:56
  No, don't do that. You be present, you fill that screen and then just five minutes in. Go
• 36:03
  and open a couple of slides, talk around then, then get back out again and take up the space.
• 36:10
  Yeah. 'cause I mean, imagine if we had a big PowerPoint here. Like these are the,
• 36:14
  these are the three things we're gonna discuss today.
• 36:16
  We're going to discuss in read it off bullet 0.1. Bullet 0.2. It's just you want to almost
• 36:22
  die from the boredom of that. I dunno. It just kills, it kills. It's something about it. It,
• 36:26
  it's, I mean, I don't think it's a terrible tool though,
• 36:30
  but I think it's about you being in control of, it's not it controlling you and you
• 36:34
  just bring it in now and again when it's enhancing and adding value to the point.
• 36:40
  Okay. And how can you make. Technical information, difficult, complicated, you know, people that deal
• 36:46
  with finances and heavy facts. How can you make that interesting in a public speaking kind of way?
• 36:54
  You are presenting now numbers and graphs. How, how does that Yeah, that can be really, I mean,
• 36:58
  I think it depends on the audience, generally, people who are presenting that information.
• 37:03
  Are presenting it to an expert audience. So I think in that context, it doesn't
• 37:08
  matter. Mm-hmm. It's when they are presenting it to more of a novice. Audience that then they've
• 37:15
  got to think about how, how they're gonna go about it. And I think that's where a good analogy
• 37:21
  can come in, so that instead of the break it up information on the mortgage, they can put, they
• 37:27
  can give us that information and then put it into a different world so that we can see how it works.
• 37:32
  Okay. In that world. And then continue. What's nice is continue with that analogy
• 37:37
  a little bit. Into the, into the presentation. So a bit like,
• 37:41
  you know, standup comedian will often do a callback at the end Yeah. Okay. Of
• 37:45
  their set where they refer to an observation that they made much earlier on in the set.
• 37:50
  Yeah. And that's something that you can do with a good analogy or
• 37:53
  a metaphor in a presentation. But I also think a nice similarly simile,
• 37:58
  um. Can just, I mean, it's a very light touch here and there. An original simile
• 38:06
  can really brighten a presentation. I remember seeing, um, Victoria Cora Mitchell once opened
• 38:14
  up while a series of only connect, and I think she described it, she said it a quiz as hard.
• 38:24
  Butter that's fresh outta the fridge. Oh. Oh, I hate that. And that was a, again,
• 38:30
  a nice simile. 'cause we all know I hate that too, at your bread and, oh, so uncertain. But
• 38:37
  that's what I mean. Think about, can you bring in a simile that can just light? Yes. A point,
• 38:43
  it will stop their presentation from being so boring, boring and dry.
• 38:46
  And again, you're considering your audience, which is the first thing you said. Save them.
• 38:50
  Save them. It's just a little bit of light relief. So relief from these terribly boring facts give,
• 38:56
  give everyone a break and know they want their coffee. Okay, so on, on Zoom, whatever you might
• 39:02
  use, whatever technology should your camera always be on or is it rude to have it switched off?
• 39:07
  Oh, I would never have it off if I'm giving. In a presentation. I just,
• 39:12
  and even if I'm just in a meeting. In a meeting, yeah. I still, I would
• 39:16
  always put my camera on. You see the younger generation? Yeah. You like to have it off? Yes,
• 39:21
  they do. They switch it off. It's like I, I dunno if that's a, maybe it's generational.
• 39:27
  I just think it's a bit, it's a bit rude. Rude. I think it's rude and it helps,
• 39:32
  I suppose. I just think it helps the speaker, you know, the listeners control the quality
• 39:39
  of a speakers speech. So let's imagine you asked me what I was doing at the weekend,
• 39:45
  and then as I tell you, you're looking around the room or behind my shoulder one.
• 39:49
  I see. Yeah. See if there's anybody else more interesting here than me now. Now that's gonna,
• 39:54
  yeah, it's just rude. It's horrible. Yeah. That's gonna change my ability to communicate.
• 39:59
  Suddenly I'm gonna phase out 'cause I'm thinking she's not particularly
• 40:02
  interested. Not interested. Not interested. And that's what I think about the camera.
• 40:06
  Just put it on and show it on that you are interested. Yes. And also
• 40:11
  switch the microphone off maybe when this background. Mm-hmm. Sounds right. Yeah,
• 40:16
  exactly. Tickets, I think, or I think so. Keep it off. You know, there are people like
• 40:21
  that in real life where they're always looking, you know, they say hi. Oh, hi.
• 40:24
  And they, oh, mean, looking beyond you. I know. Yeah. I think, you know, for me it,
• 40:31
  it was really interesting switching to the podcasting world because. I grew up,
• 40:37
  as I said, doing public speaking. And I love that 'cause I love to see the audience. I love
• 40:43
  adding something fun into their lives and making them laugh or just, it's giving them energy.
• 40:48
  Just, I love the, the, the notion of, of entertaining the crowd. I just love the
• 40:52
  crowd. And then, but with this, you don't see them. You don't see, I, I know from the stats.
• 41:00
  Okay. Like the demographic and I know the countries and things like that, but I don't
• 41:06
  really know. And I, I mean, how do you find that? It's a bit sort of for public speaker, it's, it's
• 41:12
  a different way to, to operate, isn't it, when you're not seeing your audience?
• 41:17
  No, but I think, I think they can still feel quality and care. Do your preparation. Yeah. You
• 41:26
  thought about the que, you not just sort of raced in here. You've thought about
• 41:30
  the. Questions that you are going to ask me. You sent them to me. I've considered,
• 41:35
  I've considered them what they might find useful. I think as long as you
• 41:38
  can put in that quality of care in your preparation and in the delivery.
• 41:43
  No, you, you can't see them. But, um, I suppose you'll know from figures whether
• 41:47
  it's hitting the spot or Oh, yeah. You'll know. Um, you'll know what topics they find
• 41:52
  interesting. So I, I guess that's a little bit different. Mm-hmm. You know, you've got,
• 41:55
  um. Some of the really huge mega podcast is now, today.
• 42:00
  They'll know that, for example, health is a, is a mega topic, and that if you
• 42:05
  put controversial headlines out there, then do this or you'll die. Then that's really gonna,
• 42:14
  you know, but draw them in. Yeah. It's the old click base isn't, there's
• 42:18
  a, it's bit of a teaser, a different, it's not as, yeah, it's not as honest or clean or, or, or.
• 42:25
  You know, as a one-to-one, you know, even now in business and as much as possible,
• 42:31
  I will always go and see the person mm-hmm. And sit with them and touch base,
• 42:37
  and we'll have millions of these zooms and all the time, every day, all the time. No
• 42:42
  problem. But I just feel that that personal connection. It's just nothing can ever beat that.
• 42:49
  Yeah. Yeah. Ever. Well, it's, um, it's, it's that, isn't it? You are not gonna get a round
• 42:55
  of applause with a podcast as you do when you give that 30 minute speech. And Yes, I,
• 43:01
  I understand that it possibly then feels a bit deflating, but as long as you are getting some.
• 43:10
  Yeah, in the tick, tick box, it's, that's, that's the, it's not so much deflating because I love it.
• 43:13
  I know that it's still entertainment. It's just that you're not getting that hit. I'm
• 43:17
  not seeing them. Yeah. So I'm not seeing the reaction and then I've gotta look to
• 43:20
  analytics for the analytics to tell the reaction. Whereas it, like, you know,
• 43:24
  when you've got your audience, you can tell immediately. Oh yeah, exactly how it's going.
• 43:29
  You can read the room. Yeah, you read them, you get a giggle from them. Yeah, a spontaneous
• 43:34
  clap here and there. And also you get giggles in places where you didn't expect them. You thought,
• 43:39
  oh, I didn't realize that was, that was as funny as it as it's clearly landed.
• 43:44
  So. Is it okay to read off notes? Because I have a lot of questions that I've just asked,
• 43:49
  and I can't, I just cannot memorize them all.
• 43:52
  It's just me, my brain. Um, but yeah, I, I can't memorize these all, and I,
• 43:56
  and I want to refer to the detail within them. So is that okay or is that. It's considered rude,
• 44:01
  or what's your thoughts? No, it, it's absolutely okay given the context. It's
• 44:07
  not like your eyes are glued to your phone for, you know, it's just a prompt, isn't it?
• 44:11
  And then, and then it's a prompt. We're talking prompt. Yeah, I think notes are
• 44:14
  absolutely fine. In fact. For some types of speech, I think it's fine to have it
• 44:20
  written out full hand and almost read it, but sight read it so you're coming up in
• 44:26
  your senior audience. So if someone wants to give, say a maiden speech, now's a commons.
• 44:32
  They'll probably want Yeah. The entirety of that speech. Whole thing. Because if your mind
• 44:38
  suddenly does go blank, that's the thing. The details, it's very to reco details. Yeah. It's
• 44:41
  gonna be really tough to recover from that. Yeah. Recover. Yeah. Whereas if I'm seeing
• 44:47
  a 20 minute or a. 10 minute sales pitch and someone is absolutely glued to their notes.
• 44:54
  That's not gonna give me much confidence. It's hot. 'cause I'm thinking if they should
• 44:57
  absolutely know about their product, they should be able, if they are using a few slides to refer
• 45:04
  to them. But just talk to me. Yeah, you, that's the thing. You should know that,
• 45:09
  that information. Sure. But if you're referring to it as a prompt.
• 45:12
  Prompt, yeah. Then it's, and also people often. Have more prompts than they need.
• 45:18
  Sometimes I look at people's prompt cards and it's absolutely loaded, hacked with, yeah, I mean it's,
• 45:25
  it's just fully written and if it's so fully written, you can't see the prompt. So on a
• 45:30
  prompt card, you just need to have three bullet points, bullets, three words that.
• 45:37
  That's a good tip, actually trigger you rather than sentences. Do you know,
• 45:40
  we were talking about the podcasters, so I know that some of the podcasters who do,
• 45:45
  um. A lot of the pol ones that love politics, political ones. So,
• 45:49
  um, especially the, the American podcasters, I know that they've got a teleprompter.
• 45:53
  You can see the eyes a little bit, but they give these really long, you know,
• 45:57
  20 minute mm-hmm. Speeches, I would say it is a speech. Isn, yeah, yeah, yeah. To the
• 46:02
  camera. So they have to know all of these figures that they listen and it's normally statistics and
• 46:06
  it's a lot of facts. And there's no way. On earth that you would know that without.
• 46:11
  So they are looking at the screen and they're reading at their pace. Mm-hmm. And I know the
• 46:15
  politicians do that as well. So when you say in that whole speech, that's what you mean?
• 46:21
  Yes. It's an on. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Mm-hmm. And I suppose it's,
• 46:27
  it's also the modern way of doing it. Now when you've got that kind of thing.
• 46:30
  And I know that with politicians when they get up and they do their, a lot of them,
• 46:34
  not all of them. Yeah. Well come, it's a part I see conference season now and a lot that they'll
• 46:38
  have that. On a teleprompter. Teleprompter, yeah. Know Davy gave his mm-hmm. Few days ago,
• 46:43
  the start of the week. Yeah. And he made it look like he wasn't using it teleprompter.
• 46:47
  It was very hard to tell, but it was, it was there in, in the corner. Yeah.
• 46:50
  Yeah. But then famously in the past, well not recent past, David Cameron,
• 46:58
  when he became the conservative leader, did so. Partly on the strength of his ability to
• 47:08
  stand in front of the conference for 45 minutes and give a speech without, he didn't use it.
• 47:14
  Yeah. And he didn't use anything. Okay. And you have to think, you know,
• 47:17
  it takes balls to do that. But then what do you want your leader to have? And it's,
• 47:22
  in some ways it's a silly thing 'cause it's all just a, a memory game. But people were so.
• 47:29
  Impressed. Yeah. That he could do that. But you know what? I think if it's, uh,
• 47:33
  if it's the, the speech, the speech, and we'll talk about it in a minute, the wedding speeches.
• 47:38
  If it's the speech that you're giving and you're now going to become party leader,
• 47:42
  and it's everything that you passionately believe in. I would hope that you're not
• 47:47
  reading that off. I, I would hope you know that that's coming fully
• 47:52
  from the brain and heart, however, but the danger is, yes. Sorry to interrupt.
• 47:58
  The danger is I think the year after then. Yes. Um, Miller Band, not David Miller Band,
• 48:04
  the other one. I've forgotten his name. He'll come to me in a second. Anyway,
• 48:08
  he was then Labor party leader and he gave a speech at conference and he did the David Cameron
• 48:14
  trick only he went and missed sections because he didn't have the teleprompt, so Ed Miller Band.
• 48:20
  So that's the, so he missed, so that's the, that's the the danger I. See, because the,
• 48:25
  the podcast is, this is something that they're doing every single day. Yeah. So it's a bit much
• 48:30
  to re you know, someone Yeah. Couldn't possibly, no. And, and all the questions I've got three of
• 48:34
  these, you know, in a row I'm, how you know, so you can't, but if it's your life speech.
• 48:40
  Mm-hmm. But let's talk about life speeches, wedding speech. Lots of
• 48:44
  people need to prepare. One, how do you even begin? How do you structure it,
• 48:48
  um, to make sure that. People go, that was a great speech. Great speech. Yeah. Right. Well,
• 48:53
  first of all, I think know what the rules of your speech are. Okay. So
• 49:00
  for a father of the bride, they need to think about what are they doing there?
• 49:04
  Well, they're there to welcome everybody, to welcome the grooming to their family,
• 49:08
  to do a bit of a sales job on their daughter and to, and to wish the wish
• 49:13
  the couple well. The groom speech. Now this is interesting of course, 'cause it needn't
• 49:18
  be a groom speech. Really, it's the couples speech and in the last few years I've had.
• 49:25
  The couple come to me 'cause they've decided we're going to give that as a couple. So for
• 49:30
  the couple's speech, really again, that's about them thanking parents, anybody that's paid towards
• 49:36
  the day, people that have helped the bridesmaids, the brides, grooms. And then it's nice when they
• 49:42
  can talk about one another and tell us why they are the perfect Yeah, the perfect fit.
• 49:49
  Something romantic. Yeah. And then traditionally. Their toast should be towards the bridesmaids,
• 49:55
  and that's nice to do to the wedding party when it is the couple that
• 50:00
  are giving the speech so we can have the bridesmaids toast is and the um,
• 50:05
  groomsmen. Oh, toasted as well. Traditionally, that's the way that should happen.
• 50:09
  And then of course then best man's speech. Ooh. Scary. Scary for the
• 50:15
  bride. So doesn, he What's gonna come outta this? Yeah, he's just sort does a, does a few
• 50:21
  thank yous and then tells everybody why he best friend or brother is ready, is a catch
• 50:27
  and is ready for this and why After the wild today. Yeah. And why he knows that.
• 50:32
  Union will be a success. And then again, his, his toast is to both couples. So sorry. I think it
• 50:38
  really is just about knowing what's, what do you should your speech cover because so many
• 50:44
  meander and get into with the territory, which isn't good. I mean, I've seen a,
• 50:51
  a father with the bride speech. Where the father of the bride ended up talking about
• 50:57
  all the motorcycle trips he'd been on round Europe with his brother in the seventies and eighties.
• 51:03
  I mean, it went literally,
• 51:08
  I, this went on for ages, um, and awful. He literally ruined the wedding,
• 51:14
  ruined the groom's men's speeches who, because they think, oh,
• 51:18
  this is the moment I'll tell my bride how much I love her. They also start telling their mother,
• 51:22
  their brother. It, it just becomes an excuse to, to tell everybody they might've had a bit by then.
• 51:27
  Exactly. It can be over. Don't a drunk. And although people are going,
• 51:31
  ah, they're thinking, ooh. Stop it. Yeah. Cringey. Um, so yeah, understanding the rules,
• 51:38
  keeping it short, keeping it original. People know when you've lifted a joke off the internet,
• 51:43
  the best jokes are those that come from actual stories that are true or misunderstanding.
• 51:49
  So the groom thought this. Meanwhile, the brides thinking that, and,
• 51:52
  and we've learned about this and there's a discrepancy. That's where you can really
• 51:56
  mine some original humor. Okay. Gosh, luck goes into it. Whew. Funerals. Mm-hmm. I mean,
• 52:05
  how difficult it must be to get up and, and do a speech when you're feeling that down.
• 52:10
  I mean, what are the, the do's and don'ts of a of a funeral? A speech at a funeral. Right. So
• 52:17
  I think, um. If it's a real close relative, it is nice for you to write the speech. Don't put
• 52:26
  the pressure on yourself to deliver it though. If you think it's gonna be too much, then have
• 52:32
  a good friend who understands your voice so when they read the speech, they'll be able to read it.
• 52:38
  In, in your voice, have that person on hand so that if you can't, can't do it for decides
• 52:43
  too much, somebody else can do it for you. Equally do know that if you have a moment
• 52:49
  where you break down and you just have to stop, you just stop. You stop. You blow your nose,
• 52:56
  you rally, you continue. Nobody cares. Yeah, nobody thinks any less of you.
• 53:04
  Okay. Um, we spoke a little bit earlier about. Maybe the, the lack of teaching public speaking
• 53:11
  in schools. You don't see much of it, not, not that many opportunities. It might be the odd
• 53:15
  school play that you do once. Um, do you think that that's the case? Do you think they should be
• 53:20
  actively teaching? Public speaking as part of say, the English curriculum getting up, presenting.
• 53:26
  Do you think they should? Oh, I, I, yeah. I don't think it would hurt
• 53:29
  at all. It wouldn't hurt, would it? I mean, I'm not an English teacher,
• 53:31
  so I don't know exactly what is covered on the curriculum, but when I was at school
• 53:35
  every year we had to, it was part of English recit a poem and deliver a 10 minute speech.
• 53:44
  This was, this was something that happened in class and then you'd go through to speech day.
• 53:48
  And that was really great practice. Yeah. You, you learned so much from doing that.
• 53:54
  Also. My school was an all girls school and I think that
• 53:58
  really helped me. Helped. Yeah. And this definitely, girls were given the floor
• 54:04
  and I think in mixed settings they're probably not given the floor so much.
• 54:08
  The boys tend to. Speak more, and then teachers will often invite those boys
• 54:17
  to speak in order to control them and discipline,
• 54:20
  you know, so it is a case of, oh yeah, right. Tommy, if there's something you want to share,
• 54:25
  if, if they're being naughty, please share that with the class. What did you think to that?
• 54:29
  The questions are being. At the boys more than they are the girls,
• 54:33
  just because the girls are less likely to misbehave and then that follows through,
• 54:38
  and then when they get into the world of work, women have then become conditioned to be quiet
• 54:44
  and not be heard in that public space. So yes, I think the more they can be done.
• 54:51
  The better practice. I mean also for adults. Just keep practicing every opportunity you
• 54:55
  have. Even if it's in a restaurant. Ask things to speak to strangers. Oh, definitely. You know,
• 55:00
  if it's a friend's 40th, do take a little speech along. The more you can do in day to day live,
• 55:08
  he'll improve. Yeah. Just to send your voice out there,
• 55:11
  my dad is such an extrovert and he's a terrific public speaker.
• 55:15
  One thing I have noticed that he does. Sometimes it's a bit annoying, I have to say, but,
• 55:21
  but he does speak to people like random strangers and he'll strike up a conversation and speak to,
• 55:27
  you know, it is also cultural things. You gotta be careful which country. But he
• 55:31
  does tend to speak to people he doesn't know, and then they, you know, in, in a nice way.
• 55:35
  And then they. Bond and he has all these practices, the one-on-ones and
• 55:38
  things. And that also helps you to be a better speaker, doesn't it? Oh gosh, yeah. That not,
• 55:43
  not feeling self-conscious to do that. Yeah. The art of conversation. I mean,
• 55:48
  I think that's probably what will need to be taught in schools as people, you know?
• 55:53
  Yeah. Kids are on their phones, the art of conversation conversation,
• 55:57
  and then suddenly, yes, they are thrown into a networking situation and there it's not,
• 56:02
  you can't go and hide. Into your phone, you've got to go up and speak
• 56:07
  to people. Speak to people. I think it's so easy as well. Just ask a few questions.
• 56:11
  Yeah, I suppose a few questions. Apparently the Queen would always say when she was at events,
• 56:18
  what keeps you busy or what keeps you busy? Uh, and you think, well,
• 56:23
  that's great. Great question. It doesn't matter what anyone does. You're not being
• 56:27
  a career sniffer and saying, what do you do? It's not, what do you do?
• 56:33
  Yeah, yeah. You're just saying, so what keeps you busy? And if somebody. Is unemployed,
• 56:39
  but they're a terrific darts player. They're gonna tell you about their
• 56:41
  darts. If they're a stay at home mom, but they've got into knitting,
• 56:45
  they'll tell you all about about that. If they are a CEO, yeah, it doesn't matter.
• 56:49
  But it's a really nice way in. Oh, and it takes us right back to the beginning,
• 56:54
  which is you're considering the other person. A person, yeah. Take,
• 56:58
  take the pressure off yourself all the time by considering them. Being a host,
• 57:04
  how are they feeling? How can you make them feel better? Emma, you've been terrific.
• 57:10
  Absolutely terrific. I've loved every second and I've absorbed it like a little sponge,
• 57:15
  and I hope that everyone else watching that you've taken something from this
• 57:19
  and that we're all better speakers and better in the art of conversation. Oh,
• 57:24
  lovely. It's been amazing. Thank you so much. Oh, brilliant.
• 57:26
  Thanks, Alexandra.