Latest / New Worlder / Episode #83: Andrea Moscoso Weise

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Episode #83: Andrea Moscoso Weise · New Worlder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the New Worlder podcast and I am your host Nicholas Gill.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining us shortly.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking with Andrea Moscoso.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: She is the restaurant manager and beverage director of the restaurant Gustu in La Paz, Bolivia.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Born in the highland town of Cochabamba, Moscoso was trained as a sociologist and during the PMIC created a digital platform there called De Raiz which connected artisan producers of vegetables, wine, beer, and other foods with the public.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Later,
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: After a meal at Gustu, having never worked in a restaurant before, she dropped what she was doing and decided to move to La Paz for an internship there.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: When her internship was up and she was about to return to Cochabamba, she was offered a job at the restaurant and she has been there ever since.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: In our discussion, we talk a lot about wine.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Bolivia has a burgeoning wine scene.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: You may have heard our interview with Jardin Oculto's winemaker Nayan Gauda, but Bolivia has some incredible wines, especially the ones coming from old vines and Criolla varieties.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: The sommeliers of Gustu have been one of my primary means of being introduced to new Bolivian wines since the restaurant opened.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: First it was Jonas Anderson who now actually runs a wine shop called Folkways beside the train station in Croton Falls north of New York City and it's wonderful.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I went there the other day actually.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's maybe my favorite wine shop in this general area.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Plus they do nationwide deliveries if anyone needs a good natural wine purveyor.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: then there was Bertil Toltenborg who now lives in Brazil but he's still very active in the wine and restaurant community in Latin America and now Andrea is there and it's a really exciting moment so there was lots to talk about with her we also talk about this poll that this particular restaurant has on people
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've been going there since Gusto has opened regularly and I have felt it every time I've been there.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: It has a way of taking someone in and bringing out the best in them.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you ask anyone that has ever worked there, they will probably tell you that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: We spoke with chef Marcia Taha about it in an earlier interview.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: The restaurant has such a purity in what they're trying to do in a way that is hopeful and very real.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what they do is far more than just a restaurant, but they've inspired culinary and human development in Bolivia in everything the long arms of gastronomy touch.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a lot of places.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Gustu was started with funding from Klaus Mayer's Melting Pot Foundation.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Mayer is a well-known chef in Denmark and he famously founded Noma,
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So media coverage of Gustu tends to attribute a lot to Meyer.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Every once in a while there's a story that comes out that tries to paint the restaurant as neo-colonialism because a Danish person helped establish it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: There was a story like that about Gustu written by a writer in Alicia Kennedy's newsletter after this interview was recorded and that's why I'm bringing it up now.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think the writer wanted to say that you cannot get to know a culture's food just by eating at fine dining restaurants and I completely agree with that.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: However it was framed in such a way that they used the specific case of Gusteau as an example of all of the wider systematic problems surrounding fine dining in developing countries.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: To make that case there were a lot of
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Assumptions and other inaccuracies about what Gustu is and how they work.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Gustu completely breaks the mold.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: For one, there was something that was extremely important that got overlooked in this story.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Gustu is run by an entirely Bolivian staff.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Many of them are indigenous and come from rural backgrounds.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the story of Gustu way too much attention in the media has been paid to Mayer and anything to do with new Nordic food I think it was an easy narrative when they opened 10 years ago because it gave a restaurant in Bolivia instant credibility for both local and international media you got them to pay attention and it got people in the door which was necessary to make this very unlikely experiment work from what I have personally seen Mayer has been pretty hands-off
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: of the entire project since the very beginning Camila Sadler and Michelangelo Sestari who are not Bolivian helped launch the restaurant as chef and manager with an otherwise almost entirely Bolivian staff the work they did in not just building logistics for the restaurant but listening and engaging with local concerns and issues was remarkable and should be applauded
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: The restaurant has had a couple of foreign sommeliers but as soon as there was someone able to take over in any position that was Bolivian, they did.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Marcia has been the head chef for a while now and continues to do incredible things not only in the kitchen but in the quiet leadership outside of it that never gets enough attention.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sumaya Prado, a communications director and administrator, has been there since the very beginning and has fought tooth and nail to keep Gustu moving forward in the most honest and transparent way possible.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Mayer and others from the Melting Pot Foundation have been there for guidance when asked for it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: No one in Denmark has ever made money off of Gustu.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: All profits have stayed in Bolivia and have been reinvested into the employees and rural communities.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: is completely misleading.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: To be fair, I pointed this out to Kennedy and she made a note of it in a follow-up.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: She responded that it's important to ask questions about who's setting the standards by which we define a best restaurant, why we need to create the next great culinary destination, and whether the vision of New Nordic needs to be spread around the world.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think these are fair questions and I ask them all the time.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I especially wonder about why tourism and outside validation is overemphasized in Latin America and I also routinely question international ranking bodies trying to define regional gastronomy.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important to think about why they need to be asked
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: However, in this particular case, it's a complete distraction from what Gustu's actual goals have always been.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: The article also pointed out problems with language being used by stories written about Gustu, which again is totally fine.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was a moment in Latin American gastronomy about 10 years ago, around the time the Latin America's 50 best list was launched.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: where food media was trying to define what was happening in Latin American gastronomy and was using phrases like elevating a cuisine and discovering ingredients obviously you cannot elevate a cuisine adding fine dining techniques to heritage ingredients doesn't make them better or the best they are just another variation of using them which can sometimes lead to important things also
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: No one is discovering anything that has been in use for centuries and that goes for Machu Picchu too.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hiram Bengu may have been the first outsider to encounter it but there were people farming there at the time.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway that's a bit of a sidetrack but still this language was mostly being used by the media which was trying to put into words what was happening and trying to understand how fine dining in this region fit in with the rest of the world.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was just sloppy writing in most cases, a very narrow context and a lack of understanding of what was actually happening.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So what has been going on over the past 10 to 20 years in the region?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Without going too deep into it, rapid development and globalization was and is happening.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it is tied to international trade agreements.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: These things have had a tremendous effect on traditional food systems which were already being disrupted by a number of other things.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: The gastronomic heritage of the last millennia was and still is being lost.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: extremely rapidly the diversity of what farmers are growing becomes narrower every single day this is because of changing markets because of climate change because of changing family dynamics general societal integration pollution political instability and urbanization there are serious issues with food systems in the region and multinational companies are the ones taking advantage of this the development of gastronomy
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: can become an opposing force to them notice that I am saying can because it needs to be done with great care or else it can have negative effects also when I say the development of gastronomy I don't mean the development of fine dining I mean every aspect of how food is being produced and how it is being consumed let's be clear in this specific case the development of gastronomy in Bolivia since the inception of Gustu has been an overwhelming force
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: for Good.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: The creation of this restaurant started a collective conversation among cooks, rural agricultural and foraging communities, anthropologists, biologists, winemakers, brewers, street vendors, artisan markets, bakers, and policy makers.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: This conversation may have been ignited by a Dane, but it is a conversation that has always been led and continues to be led
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: by Bolivians.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: They are the ones deciding the standards for their country.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Food writers out there, there are a thousand important stories that deserve exploration about this restaurant and what has resulted from its existence.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Don't take my word for it.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Go talk to the people that work at Gustu.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Go talk to the Aymara farmers who take 10-hour bus rides and show up on the door with bags of
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Heritage Varieties of Oca because no one else wants them.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Go talk to the women selling sandwiches de Chola and Tucumanas in the streets of La Paz whose voices are finally being heard.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Go talk to the biologists at the Wildlife Conservation Society that are working with Cayman hunters to recover populations of the animal because they are getting above market prices from Gustu.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Go talk to the people preserving centuries-old vines in the Sinti Valley because they suddenly have a market for wines that are uniquely Bolivian.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Go talk to all of the former employees of Gustu
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: that have opened their own restaurants because of the training they receive there and are helping keep heritage ingredients in use.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to the thousands of graduates of Manka cooking schools, students that lacked economic means but now have the tools to start sustainable culinary businesses based around ancestral gastronomy.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of stories you can write about Gustu that go beyond if you should travel there or if it is the best.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Find out if this one of a kind situation
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't subscribed to New Worlder on Substack, just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's free to subscribe.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: A big thank you to Oscar Velarde of La Gloria Restaurant in Lima for becoming a founding member of the newsletter.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: La Gloria is an iconic Peruvian restaurant
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Opened since 1994 that mixes Peruvian and Mediterranean flavors.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Has been one of the finest examples of service and quality in Lima's dining scene since it opened.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of the first upscale restaurants I went to in Lima when I first moved to Peru in 2005 and I've gone back every once in a while.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've always appreciated how it's never tried to bend to trends or tried to change what it was.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: it's a place you go for so full food and very good ingredients and executed beautifully thank you Oscar I appreciate the support also to everyone out there please like this podcast click on the little stars follow us and share us it really helps us get found and if you want to advertise on the podcast let us know thank you and enjoy the show
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Andrea, how are you?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, Nick.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Nice to see you and meet you finally.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, likewise.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you at right now?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right now I'm in England.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: This is the family.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: How long have you been there?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Just arrived last night.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully you're, you're not like jetlagged and things.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: no no don't worry we had a good night's sleep and so we're good to go all right cool so what is that flight like from La Paz to to the UK actually horrible oh yeah yeah it was from door to door like 36 hours oh shit like so it's like La Paz to where to
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we had to do La Paz, Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, Bogota Bogota, Orlando Orlando, London Wow Yeah That's the problem with Bolivia We don't have many direct flights So we usually have to do a lot of scales Yeah, and most major airlines don't fly there, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: La Tom and things like that You pretty much have to go
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: to Lima to Bogota or something.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, usually I am with Boa we usually have a lot of luck but you know it depends what days you want to get where are the connections usually we get either to Sao Paulo or you know Miami Madrid and that's it.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: All right so you're a sociologist originally right?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I am.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I study sociology and gastronomy at the same time.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, where did you do that?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: In Cochabamba.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm from there.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: That moment, like gastronomy wasn't like available as you know, as a career was more like a technical degree actually was really new.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: The first school opened in Cochabamba that year.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: So first generation.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: the gastronomy school so but were you studying were you going to two separate schools or was it a combined yeah okay no I studied in the public school for sociology and this like institute that opened at that year gastronomy so you knew you wanted to work with these two subjects at the same time when you were studying uh not maybe at the same time I never thought
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: There could be one work, I think, at that moment.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: There were two of my passions that were separate.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Sociology is all about identity, which is the first link we have with our culture and to create identities through our foot.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's how we build our first relationship.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think at that moment I wasn't able to see how they both careers could work together.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, was there one you were leaning more towards?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did you think you would have to just decide at one point?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, but I went working, you know, a little bit with anthropology at the museum and working as a cook in a catering, you know, jumping from one to another.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: and usually you know doing the other one on my spare time yeah and then well at my master degrees I found something that could complement both which was really cool which was what?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I did a Master in Gastronomic Innovation Development and Management okay which means what?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: yeah it's one of those new things that implies a lot but not much well it was more about how we approach gastronomy nowadays and how we're going to like link it to you know like sustainability and the new webs we were I made this in the in the after the pandemic so
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: it was a lot of how do we replant our view on gastronomy and with society so after studying how how what is the path to to Gusto you're now the floor manager general manager I guess or what's the exact position I'm head of floor and restaurant manager okay restaurant manager yeah you know like after many years of
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: jumping between one career and the other and like pretty much traveling around food you know like trying different places when the pandemic hit uh we stayed at home and started our project about how to connect uh the small producers with uh local clients because there were i mean all the markets closed and so we created this website where you could learn about the people behind the products the local
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: production and you know have a delivery on your house and then give you like tips on how to prepare some different items and then we started making some tastings with wineries and got involved in this whole new world especially learning a lot about Bolivian wines and then one day we went to have dinner at Gusto
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: It was just when the pandemic was starting to opening everything and it was an amazing experience.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Never tried anything like it.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: The food, the wines, all the background they have, all this social background.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you could say I never left after that.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: After that we spent the night talking with Marzia and Bertil and
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, after a few drinks I decided I wanted to stagiaire over there so I moved to La Paz to an original internship of like three months and after five months I was still there.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Then Marcia invited me to the Sabor Silvestre's trip so I could help also from the sociology side to help systemizing all the information and creating, you know, charts of the different process and ingredients
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: and when I was ready to go back to Cochabamba well I actually left and then they called me to offer me the position okay there's a there's a lot to unpack so this let's start with the platform the digital platform you founded during the pandemic was that in Cochabamba or that was in Cochabamba yes in Cochabamba no
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: and what was that called and exactly and I want to hear more about that okay it was called the Raiz which means from the root so yeah it started as a small you know program to help my friends that were producing and were having trouble selling all the products and then it started growing to different producers then we reached some winemakers as well yeah
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: okay cool and you were able to I guess make a lot of connections there and like help move a lot of you know things that were probably just stuck in transit I guess the problem was that as they usually I mean they used to sell in all these local markets
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: they lost that space so it started like friends you know selling mushrooms they were not able to to give them away so I used to get like call my friends you know to offer them yeah I'm getting some would you like so I can give you you know that I can give it to you because they live close by because Bolivia I don't know if you know this but like for three months we were not able to drive
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: okay no I didn't realize that yeah that was really tough like they suspended all the transportation so you could only drive if you had a special permit at the beginning yeah there had to have been just a ton of ingredients from farms and things just you know just sitting around and like how could they even like I don't even understand how you can even move them without
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean were things being moved by like just by hands and feet or like what?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah we were biking everywhere you know like the producer DeFarmis got like a permit so that's why he would deliver it to me like 20 20 boxes of mushrooms and then I would bike around the neighborhood you know giving them to all our friends Okay wow that's pretty cool and okay and then pandemic's over
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not over.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's still going, I guess.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know anymore.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then you go to Gusto.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: You just have dinner.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so what was that experience like?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: It was really mind blowing.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've tried tasting menus before, but this was something new.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Flavors I've never tried before.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know they just blow my mind all this space as well where you connected with the people and you were able to know all the stories behind the producers and that made like a different experience itself you know Did you have an idea that was going on in you know in Bolivia at the time?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I followed Gustu I mean project for a while
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: It was like something to do on my list you know like my bucket list but until that moment I hadn't had the opportunity to go and we were really lucky because as they were just opening there were only a few tables at the restaurant so I think that was the a great opportunity to get to know Marcia and Bertil and all the team and you know start getting a connection with them
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: it's a powerful place like I mean I've been going like since the first year they opened and I just remember I still remember going there in this first like the first month I think and in just seeing a side of tasting all of the new flavors and you know seeing all these things and Bolivian wines that which I didn't know much of at the time and in you know all these new ingredients and flavors and
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: in things but just seeing the reaction of everyone working there and just the way they felt that this thing just suddenly appeared in La Paz and it was like a spaceship landed like of this whole other world and like I can remember just like sitting at the bar with Michelangelo Sestari who was like the original restaurant manager or whatever and
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: and it was just such just a wild experience like to see like this happening like in real time and it was it was just like very emotional and like I still get emotional when I go to Gusteau I haven't been since the pandemic but like every time I've ever been there it's been like it's it's a really powerful place and I can see how you would just suddenly
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Andrea Moscoso Weise
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: The whole project you know the the markets started opening and people really wanted to get that you know personal thing so the website was a bit slow so we decided to give it a pause and we managed to get a house exchange with some friends of our friends so
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: Andrea Moscoso Weise
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you're talking with Marcia that night and whose idea was it to?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Did you say like during the meal like I want to work here or was it like you know with Marcia and she was like you know like you should we have a space or or what?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was like after you know after the meal we were like having some beers with the team and then yeah I was like yeah I would love to you know like to get to make like an interview for a special year you know like
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: She was like, yeah, you should come.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, really?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I called her and I took her word on it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what were you doing during that time?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Were you working in the kitchen or what?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I worked in the kitchen and I started in the whole production kitchen and then I went up to the service kitchen.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: and what I really like about them is like you even though you work at the kitchen you do floor work you get to the table which I really loved you know to getting to explain all of this process behind and what I love is that to know who's behind the product and you know talking about who raises the llamas or you know different details or the palmitos where do they come from you know all that
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: and between those months we became quite close with the team and you know we were with Bertil like drinking and tasting all of these different types of wines and it was a whole new world yeah all right and then you're about to go back and they offered you the position and and did you think twice about it or or what ah not really i mean
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was a lot you know I wasn't expecting you know to jump into something that big you know and even though I do love the wine and I knew I didn't know enough to be in charge of the program but I know Bertie was really I mean reassuring like yeah confident that I could do it so I went for it and it was amazing
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's one aspect about those two I've always appreciated is just how encouraging they've been to everyone that's ever worked there and just kind of pushing them towards opportunities and I don't know another restaurant space that's that just kind of supportive in every way I don't know it's really it's really fascinating and it's like I can I don't know
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Julie, what do you think?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sorry, I'm very interested in all this.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was just listening to you guys.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Andrea.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, how are you?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, listening to you and me commenting on all these
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: and before you tell us more about wine and on all this production in Bolivia I was thinking what was what is the common theme you have found in between all these disciplines which I can certainly relate because my background is in philosophy anthropology and then analyzing food waste so I'm curious
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: to know if obviously over time and in retrospective there is something you were finding more and more clearly that was a common thread between all these disciplines because it's intuitive as we were discussing with Nick someday but I'm sure by now you have something that holds all this work together and I'm curious about that what is it what is that
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's identity.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's a clear path.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's like identity is built into different ways, like how you are different from other people, you know, or the others in general.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: And the other one is how you are part of a group.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: against other groups.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something that you create through food, through the beverages, through all these connections.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, that was what all these producers were doing, but also the cooks and the winemakers and everyone is like an ecosystem where they create this identity of who they are as individuals, but also like creating who we are as a country, as Bolivia.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Have you confirmed that with your work with wine or is it, have you found something specific working with wine in terms of identity or is it kind of the same logic that you have found with food?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean they are related and you work with both obviously in a way you cannot separate them but I'm curious if there is something that you could highlight in that in relation to identity in terms of your work with wine.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think that food is a bit more primal you know like it's something you need to survive wine is more that you do it to share to celebrate to it's more emotional than than food so I think that uh hit us harder you know in the in who we are who we want to be and yeah I think like
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: wine in general I mean especially in Bolivia right now is having a boom in in terms of identity itself like finding who we are as a wine country and why we are different so that's something that is really for me it's really interesting and I'm such a I have such a privilege because now I get to work with all the producers and I know them personally all of them so
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: You get to see who they are and why their wines are the way they are.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's a translation of their personalities and identities as well.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess, Nick, we are curious about that scenario, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Why Bolivia is having this boom?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: What is so special about Bolivian wine?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Why the altitude is making it such a treasure and all that, right?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Gusto has always been kind of the the access point for me to Bolivian wine for some reason well not for some reason for obvious reasons that I go there and I you know you know I drink different Bolivian wines that I've never had before and you know throughout the pairing or at the bar you know I there's such a great selection but
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: but it's just you know the sommeliers of Gusteau and you know and doing what you've been doing it's it's kind of a big role I think it's like you are introducing introducing a lot of the world to these different producers directly and I like I can remember
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: like I've known all the sommeliers of Guster it's like all these different eras almost of the restaurant like I remember Jonas who actually Jonas Anderson who now lives by me in in New York in the Hudson Valley opened a wine shop and it's amazing I went there like a month ago and it's really great and then Bertil and now and now like you working with all these producers and I can't wait to see kind of
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: what you bring into it with your unique background and it's and yeah so there's how many different wineries are you working with at Cousteau now uh we are if I'm not correct like 18 different wineries 18 okay yeah has it has it increased decreased
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think it has increased.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we concentrate especially on the smaller producers and there has been a few new projects on the last few years that are becoming really interesting as well.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of wine regions, how many areas are there?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean in terms of grape growing we have six major areas where I mean in the country like but right now producing we have from the grapes we produce from five different areas and for different departments where are the wineries so we have Tarija which is the most known but Valle del Cinti is in Chuquisaca we have Cochabamba with Binto
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: Luribay which is in La Paz where they produce great Muscatel wines I mean well especially the grapes right now there is not like a winery itself over there but in Cochabamba they are working with their wines their sorry their grapes and well Cotagaita in Potosi they still have some a lot of history and grape production and Santa Cruz which is I think the new
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: The New Movement in Samaipata where we have to yeah we have a wine production over there right now it's like the farthest east side of you know the whole change of the Andes like the the last tip from to east about the wine production so that's lower altitude definitely or
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: uh no we're talking like 700 meters above okay okay so not at all all right and what about the qualities of the of the grapes how many uh types of grapes uh do you have because they are very specific of Bolivia too right like these uh
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we have two movements, I would say, like talking about winemaking and also grape selection, you know, the more the classical one, you know, working with traditional grapes like Cabernet, Donat, Cigar, Merlot, even Melbeck on that side and the line which is more of the Sinti Valley and of the heritage grapes.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: which are you know all the Criollas like we have the Negra Criolla we have the Pedro Jimenez we have the Bichoqueña which is the only Bolivian grape per se and like that line has been working more on the side of no use of oak and more like
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: in the line of natural wines less intervention wines whereas the more traditional ones are working with oak and you know in a more classic style.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's the kind of breakdown of what's more kind of natural versus conventional wines that are at Gusto that you're working with?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is it still is it mostly on the kind of heritage grapes and natural or is it
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of next.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: We do work more with natural and less interracial wines.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: And more than taste about it is our menu.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: My cell works with a menu that's not that we don't have that much of red meat on it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: So these are wines that can be harmonized quite good, quite well with our menu now.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: And
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: So they can showcase all of the fruit flavors or the terroir flavors of them which is really interesting and they can complement each other.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about wine and Cochabamba.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know much about those.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, it's really interesting.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: There are a few producers.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the one we are working with, I think is the one that has more experience right now on the market.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's a small winery called Marques de la Viña.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: The third generation, she decided to go study to Chile and work in a
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: French influence winery after that and then came back and when she arrived she found out like the family had divided the the property and they have sold the the vines most of them so they start working with grapes from around the country
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: and they work with the Moscatel of La Paz, the Luribay.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: They have a producer of Cabernet Sauvignon in Vinto in La Paz and they get some more grapes from Tarija.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's kind of coming from everywhere.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: yeah yeah in one of our conversations with Marcia she mentioned that there is a significant amount of women that are on these winemakers or you know they are actively working on this process or they even founded one of these places so can you tell us a little bit about that Andrea why why is that it's very interesting because it's usually not the case around the world
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's really interesting because there are a lot of women leading all these new movements.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we have in Tarija, we have Liz Arancibia, which is leading Magnus Winery.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: We have the Grenier sisters.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: They have been leading this amazing project called Jardín Oculto, working with heritage grapes and arboreal vines, which is really, really cool.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had Nayan on the podcast last year.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was great.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's great.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but the work they're doing is super exciting.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had some of their wines, and they're really great.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to see more of what they're doing.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I know they keep experimenting and going in new directions.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And seeing some of the photos of those wines, man.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know how tall they are like you know they're like trees you know they're crazy yeah it's amazing and we're talking about vines that are more than 200 years old which is I mean it's completely unique and the harvest of them is such a fun yeah I can imagine like I see photos of him it's like looks like he's like in a jungle or something like it's crazy
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how did they learn in the first place?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, where is all this knowledge coming from that these women acquired?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is a specific winery.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the Granieri sisters, they are from a long history of wine producers.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Campos de Solana is one of the biggest winery in Bolivia.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: but they found this like a vineyard with this really amazing like it's called Jardín Oculto which translates to secret garden the hidden garden you know because once you walk around it you find these like moles like these pink pepper trees more than three to six meters tall and the vines all around it
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it's in between those you're gonna find all these fruit trees like apple trees, queen trees, citruses.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, it's quite an amazing place and I think that's what inspired them to go for it.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: And these vineyards are planted, you know, in a more traditional way they were planted like more than a hundred years ago, but it's like
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of religious reason you know like to make like the only wine for the for the church or for the local consume and then they were forgotten so they grow wild it's really cool last year we went there for the harvest and
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: you have to do it you know between two people one on top you know like pretty much like a monkey on the top you know with the scissors and the other one needs to be down with a basket trying to catch your grapes now yes it's amazing and that's something like Jardino Culto has and also like Sepa de Oro there are many small wineries that they have all these Mollar grapes arboreal vines I'm sure there's tons of other winemakers and vineyards out there that
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't really get much attention but are there more and more people starting to work with these you know these old vines like are there any new wineries that you know are just starting that you're excited about?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think there are new I'm not sure if new wineries but there are small wineries there are starting to give it
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: more a highlight to these grapes.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's something that probably goes to started, you know, with showcasing all these heritage grapes, but also it's a movement, you know, around the world.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: Which is really cool that all these families, like the third, fourth generation are starting to go back to, to their burial grapes and to
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: Work with all these heritage grapes and doing new experiments and working with native, you know, yeast and all of this process of looking inward.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's what's happening in general with the country and with the wines in Bolivia.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's like we're in a moment where we're looking to see who we are, like what makes us different.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, even if you do some more classic wines or
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: more like the natural line is you know like finding out what makes us special like high altitude obviously is a it's a big point we start with our wines in i mean our lowest vineyards are like 1300 meters above the level so and what's the highest uh like 25
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, how does that affect the flavor, the body, the everything?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's really interesting because the higher you are, I mean, you get closer to the sun, so the UV rays are stronger.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: So the plant tries to protect the seeds, so it develops thicker skins on the grapes.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: So you get more concentrated flavors and different aromas because of that.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: and it's very interesting because it goes back to what you just mentioned which is identity and you uh how like what are these wines telling you and the restaurant and you know everyone that is involved telling what what Bolivia is how will you define Bolivia through these wines wow that's a hard one because
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: but I mean that that's kind of like the work every sommelier at Gusto has been doing it's trying to define Bolivia through these wines I think I don't know it's it's a big it's a big responsibility yeah but it's a process right it's a work in progress that what will be at least
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: That diversity and having you know enclose into one grape or one wine or one statement is what makes Bolivia so interesting.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean we as a society is like we have like we have 36 different and national nationalities over here like nations that been recognized and we are all this mixture of
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: in the country and all of all the restaurant is about showcasing all these different ingredients from different regions they are going to be so different but they can work together and that's something I think we try to do with the wines like to bring you all the different regions to for you to understand all the different terroirs or the different presentations all the different styles we can offer as a country
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on with Singani now?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, there was a buzz at least like in the US a little while for Singani.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's still there.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: More bars are using it.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on in Bolivia?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Has there been any, I don't know, anything exciting happening?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think like Singani is going through a process of being just like a mixer drink, you know, like to have it on the traditional to fly and
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's interesting and this whole movement obviously
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: when you turn a line into something like people start looking to it and you know trying to the people to see it for what it can be a small producer as big producer is starting like to promote it as a single drink and starting working on the quality of it and
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: and trying to showcase all the natural aromas from the grape because you know to make a Zingani you first need to make a wine of 100% Moscato of Alejandria and then you distilled so if you had a good base of a good wine you're gonna have a great Zingani and they are working more and more in the quality of those okay are there any producers that kind of stand out that uh
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: that you're working with.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think the small producers are doing really cool stuff with less intervention, like La Encantada is a small winery in the Sinti Valley.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's a new project that's going really well.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: Bodlega Jokic also has a great Zingani.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: Magnus is doing also one that's really interesting.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: And they all have all these different profiles of
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: you know even the nose and mouth when you try them you know next to each other you're gonna see how how how big the you know like the
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: the range yeah yeah exactly it's like Marquez de la Viña has one that's made in a more traditional way with fire open fire so you get all these smoky notes whereas with the the ones from this interior you're gonna get all these peachy uh notes and citruses I mean like I think that's the kind of South American spirits like this it's like a totally untapped
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: potential so far it's like if like a fraction of the attention that was paid to mezcal was paid to things like you know pisco or tsingani or in Bolivia what's it called Juliana um yeah it's like yeah there's all these wonderful things and it's things are starting to happen with all of them I think in a really interesting way
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: and yeah I think it's just a matter of time between before it really starts to kind of get more attention and develop yeah and thinking about that like how to expand that and you know showing it more and growing it how how do you relate with all the people expert you know experts around the world in one making and just how would
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: what are you um incorporating or how is that conversation happening you travel i guess to train yourself and to train your team and how is that conversation happening well i think nowadays it's like this conversation is quite more open uh i think like a few years ago
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: where we're talking about like the big producers against or above the small ones and nowadays I think it's more horizontal which is really nice and it's like I think we are in a moment where we have something different to bring to the table and like like we were talking about the Bistro Kenya and all these like new things there we're working with that
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're a great opera because they don't feel like they can be compared but I mean you know like better or worse but it's just different and that's a great story for a conversation I think yeah so to start with it's a matter of showing people that you are talking about different different products right like in a way it's not not not comparable
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: and what is I mean I guess not everyone knows why it's the difference between a traditional wine and natural wine right it's not it's something new for many people yeah I think that it's interesting because in the restaurant uh the people that are more surprised about the different varieties we have of heritage and natural wines are the Bolivians
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a movement that is just starting in Bolivia and is starting to grow is you know has especially with Europeans they're been dealing with it for many years now it's quite you know fashion so they arrive and they even ask for them but the local market is the one that it's getting really surprised with it and it's that's I think for me is the the best part you know to be able to
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: to give some people like they give it to me this experience of you know getting to relearn about your country and about your culture and get like excited about it.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are there more wine bars and things opening in around Bolivia?
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: Wine bars not necessarily but something that it is happening is more restaurants and are
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: are betting for the for the diversity of wines and to offer more things which is really cool yeah I guess I mean it probably starts there and then yeah what about wine shops or anything like that are they kind of open to selling these kinds of wines
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_03: More than wine bars there is a movement of incorporating all the small producers into the big chains like supermarkets so they they just created there was this initiative called Vinel that they started you know working with all of these small producers and natural winemakers and getting them to the supermarket
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what's it called?
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, the organization?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: Vinalt.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's really interesting because it approaches people in a more comfortable zone for them to try them.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: And also helps to promote all of these, you know, small companies.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: yeah and how is the legal aspect of it going like you know to be able to export and I guess you you have to work on that you know seems to see in a parallel way how is that going is it can people find them somewhere or is it still a matter of
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in the last two years, there were a lot of doors opened.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: We have, well, some to-fly imports that goes to the States, take some wine with them.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: There is a new movement also going through Germany and to Nuremberg.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: And well, recently there has been new markets opening like Brazil.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: and well I think it's a it's a slow process it's not uh it's quite difficult especially in an inland uh country so we we need to make relationships with uh with some countries that do have you know access to the sea that is is getting there I think and we're starting to make noise I've been hearing a lot about Bolivian wines you know outside of my own little bubble
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: because they're super interesting and you know they deserve to be to be drunk so yeah definitely no and the range is amazing well you should definitely go to Bolivia yeah yeah I know I need to make like a separate wine trip and it's something like I've been wanting to do for so many years and it's just whatever for whatever reason it just hasn't happened but hopefully maybe this year we'll see
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let us know.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you have to help me.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the bar at Gusto will be my first stop regardless.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: Julie, any other questions or anything?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, I guess, I mean, what's coming?
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: You have told us what is motivating right now and what are you working on, but if there is something else that it's inspiring you or that you want to focus on the next, you know, medium, long term,
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I fell in love with the whole wine world.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm currently undergoing my certifications on, you know, the Lisette and
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's gone.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that you never end.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I want to go for research on Bolivian wine.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: There is not much written about it.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: There is not much academics on it.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's something that is really I have a passion for it.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like the whole research is something that unites my two passions.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot to work with right now.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there are great varieties that still haven't been discovered.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some of these old heritage varieties like that.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: They found some in the southern Peru like last year, I think three new ones that you know, it's like who knows what can happen with those?
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure in Bolivia there's some.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, last year I tried this called Imporeña, which they don't know really, they haven't mapped it yet.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: But it's
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're starting to work with it.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: This was from Joakich Winery, Patricia Mendoza, who is also a woman living at Winery, got with this amazing wine out of it.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_03: And they were talking about all of these, exactly these grapes that they haven't found the, you know, the founts exactly, I mean, to map them genetically.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: But I think there is a lot of material over there and a lot
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: Great things to come.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: Have you tried Vita, Andrea?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, I haven't.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: I read a lot about it.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_03: I know it has such a political, I mean, influence right now.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let us know when you try it.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: I will definitely do it.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: Artisanal wine that people I mean apart from these specialty wines and all this work there is something more for this boom?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I mean the wine culture besides Tarija is not that big I mean Chicha which is like the I think would be more the equivalent to Viche it's like a fermented corn beverage
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: yeah we have chicha too so that's like uh that has a lot of influence in the in the valleys like especially Cochabamba but i think it is is growing i mean the wine in general is is becoming more popular every day and but
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: like Marques de la Viña I think like they had like is one of the wineries with Coolman winery where they started making wines with a bit of sweetness because the market was asking for it and then like started you know reducing the sugar amount of it you know like starting to
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: to like give it a bit more finesse to the wine but first that they decided they needed to get to the market and understand the Bolivian market of the demand you know which I think is it was really interesting to do but yeah I know it's always difficult to to understand a new market of people that if they never
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: What's the latest with Gustu?
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: Any other projects or expansions or things going on?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: Not expansions.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: At the moment, we're obviously planning a new Salvador Silvestre trip.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we just had our 10th anniversary last year, so there was a lot of movement, you know, having friends over to cook with.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: And well, this year, it feels good.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think it's the first year where I feel we're getting back from the pandemic.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: and we're starting to think about new projects but within the restaurant and you know to establish what we do like yeah great no I'm excited I'm always always fascinated by everything happening at Gusto and I'm sure I always will be so so thank you for continuing this uh I don't know this legacy there
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't been, and I look forward to it.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you should definitely come.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: We are more than invited.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Andrea.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure speaking with you.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and thank you for the time.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a pleasure meeting you.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hope to see you soon in Bolivia.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the rest of your trip to England.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: thank you thank you everyone for listening I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Andrea Moscoso of from the restaurant Gustu in La Paz Bolivia if you haven't followed the newsletter yet just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack please like us review us share us tell your neighbors tell your friends whatever and a big thank you to my friend Pat Buzzard for providing the music to the show find out more about Pat on patbuzzard.com