Latest / Live in the Lab Schools / Ep #6 - Walking with Wildcats: The Admin Team at Thomas Metcalf School

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Ep #6 - Walking with Wildcats: The Admin Team at Thomas Metcalf School · Live in the Lab Schools

0:08
Ben Webb: Welcome to the pod.
0:09
Ben Webb: This week we are hearing from our Metcalf Elementary and Middle School administrators.
0:15
Ben Webb: We have three of them to hear what makes their school unique, what keeps them coming back to work, and a lot of laughs ensue.
0:22
Ben Webb: My name is Ben Webb.
0:23
Ben Webb: This is Andy Govey.
0:25
Andy Goveia: Welcome to Live in the Lab Schools.
0:27
Andy Goveia: We're in the middle of the season.
0:35
Ben Webb: Yeah.
0:35
Ben Webb: It's been a good year so far.
0:37
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
0:38
Andy Goveia: Cool.
0:38
Andy Goveia: We're here.
0:39
Ben Webb: You know these people.
0:40
Ben Webb: I don't know these two.
0:41
Ben Webb: I don't spend enough time with these people.
0:42
Andy Goveia: We a couple weeks ago we recorded our UHI admin episode, and it was interesting to get to hear uh about their approach because I don't work there, but this is really cool that I we're talking shop with my people.
0:53
Andy Goveia: Um, and hopefully you'll hopefully you'll get some education today, Mr.
0:57
Andy Goveia: Webb.
0:57
Andy Goveia: We are lab schools, so I would kind of expect that from what we do.
1:00
Andy Goveia: You would assume.
1:02
Andy Goveia: Uh, with us today in the studio, which is Mr.
1:06
Andy Goveia: Webb's classroom, principal of Metcalf, Carmen Bergman.
1:10
Carmen Bergmann: Hello.
1:11
Andy Goveia: Assistant principal, Cassandra Mattoon.
1:14
Cassandra Mattoon: Hello.
1:14
Andy Goveia: And Dean of Students slash Director of Athletics and Activities, Mr.
1:19
Andy Goveia: John Hawes.
1:19
Andy Goveia: Good to be here.
1:20
Andy Goveia: We're here.
1:22
Andy Goveia: Um to get us started, we've heard from Carmen before.
1:25
Andy Goveia: And so, Cassandra John, uh, could you just walk us through who you are and how you came to this position?
1:33
Jon Haws: Sure.
1:34
Jon Haws: Um, so I taught in the classroom for uh a dozen years.
1:37
Jon Haws: I was a phys ed teacher, uh, and uh eight of those years were spent uh at the lab schools at Metcalf.
1:43
Jon Haws: And toward the tail end um of that uh first stint at the lab schools, um I I got my uh degree in administration, and then uh my first opportunity in admin came at Parkside Junior High.
1:55
Jon Haws: Served as the associate principal and athletic director there, and after a couple years just had the opportunity to come back to the lab schools, um, and so I I jumped at that opportunity, and so I've been here for um back for three years now in the administrative role.
2:10
Cassandra Mattoon: Cassandra.
2:11
Cassandra Mattoon: Hello again.
2:13
Cassandra Mattoon: Yes, I have been in education now for over 25 years.
2:19
Cassandra Mattoon: Most of those years have been in a teaching role.
2:23
Cassandra Mattoon: I started out working in a child development center, and after graduating, I became the director of that facility, did that for a couple years, realized that the classroom was where I belonged, and so went back to the classroom and taught third grade and first grade at a private school.
2:44
Cassandra Mattoon: And then the opportunity to move to Metcalf came up, and so I started at Metcalf 18 years ago as the preschool teacher, uh, moved up to kindergarten for some years, went back down to preschool, then back up to kindergarten, um, kind of back and forth there for a while.
3:03
Cassandra Mattoon: Got my administrative degree two years ago, and then the opportunity to move into the assistant position came about this year, and I um quickly applied and had another one of my goals in my life come true to be able to be the assistant now at Medcalf.
3:28
Ben Webb: So, one question I have for the three of you why MedCalf?
3:32
Ben Webb: What makes it special?
3:34
Ben Webb: What makes it a place to call home?
3:36
Ben Webb: And in your case, you kind of went away and came back, and then you're local, Carmen.
3:40
Ben Webb: So like you you've known about the lab schools and about Metcalf specifically.
3:44
Ben Webb: So, like what what calls to you about this place that you now have been in for a while?
3:51
Ben Webb: So, kind of Carmen, do you want to go first?
3:53
Carmen Bergmann: Yeah, so it's kind of an interesting journey for me because I I grew up in that building, actually.
3:59
Carmen Bergmann: My dad was a professor in speech and hearing clinic um for 33 years.
4:04
Carmen Bergmann: So I I grew up running those halls, and his best friend, Merle Howard's wife, Bonita Howard, was a PE teacher at Metcalf.
4:11
Carmen Bergmann: So I even spent time in the building and in the pool as a youngster.
4:16
Carmen Bergmann: So it was definitely a coming back home for me.
4:18
Carmen Bergmann: Um all of my degrees have been at Illinois State University.
4:21
Carmen Bergmann: I played softball there, um, which would have been at the time that I played, just across the street, um, down a ways, kind of by the State Farm Hall of Um Business.
4:31
Carmen Bergmann: Business, thank you.
4:33
Andy Goveia: And uh the SFHOB.
4:36
Carmen Bergmann: Yes.
4:36
Carmen Bergmann: Uh so um so that part was really interesting coming back.
4:41
Carmen Bergmann: That the first couple of months looking out the window in onto the campus was very strange just because every stage of my life has um has been a part of it on the campus.
4:53
Carmen Bergmann: Um and for me coming into this role, I I came from um consultancy, and I when I was in unit five, I went from principal, I was the director of elementary education.
5:04
Carmen Bergmann: I never anticipated going back into a principal role.
5:08
Carmen Bergmann: The only reason that the MedCalf role intrigued me was because it was different enough.
5:15
Carmen Bergmann: Um, it was definitely not like the other roles that I had had as a principal.
5:19
Carmen Bergmann: It's definitely more like a central office type role in a district.
5:24
Carmen Bergmann: And the lab schools have always been a little bit of a mystery to me.
5:28
Carmen Bergmann: I didn't really know that much about them.
5:30
Carmen Bergmann: So um for me, that was a it was a new adventure and uh a good one.
5:36
Ben Webb: Okay, Cassandra, similar, different?
5:39
Cassandra Mattoon: Uh some similarities for sure.
5:41
Cassandra Mattoon: I also am a towny and went all through Unit 5 schools and Kingsley, you know, right across the street almost from Metcalf.
5:51
Cassandra Mattoon: So being growing up here, I always knew of the lab schools.
5:57
Cassandra Mattoon: My sister did attend UHI.
5:59
Cassandra Mattoon: Um, so it's been a part of my life in different ways.
6:03
Cassandra Mattoon: But I will say I didn't really still know a whole lot about the lab schools.
6:08
Cassandra Mattoon: Um I when I keep going, keep going.
6:11
Cassandra Mattoon: When I wanted to or knew that I wanted to become a teacher, there was no other choice but ISU for me either.
6:20
Cassandra Mattoon: I looked at nowhere else.
6:21
Cassandra Mattoon: I just knew I wanted to come here as the well-known teaching school.
6:26
Cassandra Mattoon: And so that's and all my degrees have been here as well.
6:31
Cassandra Mattoon: And then um the big piece for me is being able to be a part of both worlds.
6:38
Cassandra Mattoon: The at the college level, working with all the professors, the ISU students, all that collaboration is um highly intriguing to me, and I love those relationships, and getting to still work with the grade school and those students and teachers.
6:57
Cassandra Mattoon: So it's like the best of all of the worlds combined in one.
7:01
Ben Webb: So towney local.
7:02
Ben Webb: John, are you from the area then?
7:04
Jon Haws: I am not.
7:04
Jon Haws: I'm I'm from the uh DeCalb area originally.
7:07
Jon Haws: Went to Northern and then moved down this way.
7:11
Ben Webb: Okay, so then why Metcalf?
7:14
Jon Haws: Yeah, I mean for me, I'd be in line if I didn't tell you a lot of it, obviously have to do with my family.
7:17
Jon Haws: I do we have a pretty large family.
7:19
Jon Haws: Uh my wife and I have have four children, uh, all of which are at Metcalf currently, uh ranging from preschool up to eighth grade.
7:26
Jon Haws: And so I was in unit five, and I love my time there, but it was it was like being in a different time zone.
7:29
Jon Haws: You know, with the different schedule and and and they started an hour later um as well.
7:35
Jon Haws: It it was it was a challenge.
7:37
Jon Haws: Um and so, I mean, not not all of that, you know, factored into to my decision to come to Metcalf, uh back to Metcalf in admin, but um I also think about the uh as as a smaller school and smaller district, um, just our ability to um to shift, right, and and to pivot and to to try new things.
7:56
Jon Haws: It's it's just um there there's some more opportunity there, uh and certainly some um some challenges along the way that come with that, but um you you do have that opportunity to move relatively quick on on some new ideas and initiatives.
8:10
Ben Webb: Nice.
8:10
Ben Webb: So like as locals then, is there like a like MedCalf kind of like oh that place?
8:17
Ben Webb: Like you mentioned Kingsley, Unit 5.
8:20
Ben Webb: Like, is there kind of a stigma or is it is it like a is it a positive competition?
8:26
Carmen Bergmann: It's funny, not not so much with MedCalf, but a little bit with UHI.
8:30
Carmen Bergmann: So, you know, my kids struggled a little bit with it at first because uh in our family, um, all five of us were normal community graduates and um and we're also involved in sports.
8:42
Carmen Bergmann: So yeah, there was a bit of uh an issue with the with the UHI uh connection, but um everyone's gotten past that.
8:51
Andy Goveia: I found that too.
8:51
Andy Goveia: I was because I went to normal west.
8:53
Andy Goveia: And so when you get into this bubble and you go, oh my gosh, this place is great, people go, You hi, you think you high is great.
8:59
Andy Goveia: And I'm like, I student taught there, like there's phenomenal teaching, yeah.
9:02
Andy Goveia: But there's sports teams.
9:03
Andy Goveia: I'm like, who?
9:03
Andy Goveia: Yeah, okay, great.
9:05
Andy Goveia: Like, yes.
9:05
Andy Goveia: We have that, we have that, yes.
9:07
Andy Goveia: Sorry that their sports teams are good sometimes.
9:11
Andy Goveia: Like, we all the sports in this community ebb and flow, really, and we're gonna judge everyone's opinion on that.
9:18
Andy Goveia: Sorry, I'm gonna get off that tangent.
9:20
Andy Goveia: Um I just like to irk you.
9:22
Andy Goveia: You do.
9:23
Andy Goveia: Um so talk about not necessarily your day-to-day and what you the three of you do, but like what is it that makes your role at Metcalf maybe different from similar positions elsewhere?
9:37
Andy Goveia: Like, John, you talked about being the assistant principal at Parkside, and a lot of your responsibility there was pretty similar to what you do now.
9:44
Andy Goveia: But like what are some of the differences between being in that role in Unit 5 and your role now?
9:49
Andy Goveia: Like, what would we see that's different about what you do?
9:51
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
9:53
Andy Goveia: So what makes your role though different from similar positions elsewhere?
9:57
Andy Goveia: Like the what and I don't mean your day-to-day necessarily, but are there things that you have to do because you're here in the lab schools that might get handled by someone somewhere else, but it falls on your plate because of the uniqueness of the our structure?
10:12
Ben Webb: Yes, and I think the reason why I asked that is mostly like can what's one example without like going into all the details?
10:19
Ben Webb: Like, what's one example in terms of like, is it is it in the classroom?
10:24
Ben Webb: Is it in the extracurricular?
10:25
Ben Webb: Is it in the like what's one what's one example you can kind of do?
10:30
Jon Haws: Sure.
10:30
Jon Haws: I I would say a lot of it um is in my day-to-day, um, where there are uh a number of items that um maybe traditionally, for example, like athletics and activities that maybe um my role would not typically do, whether that be to schedule uh uh a minibus, like transportation, whether it be checking, you know, registrations, sports physicals, things like that daily, a lot of um um uh a lot of uh I would say mostly tends to be clerical in nature, but it's very time consuming and it's very um But very important.
11:04
Jon Haws: And and so there's just a lot of those things, that a lot of boxes to check each and every day.
11:09
Jon Haws: And and at times it's like, oh man, it if I don't do get to that today, then who's gonna get to that?
11:15
Jon Haws: And I it just things need to be done.
11:17
Jon Haws: It's very important.
11:18
Ben Webb: Nice.
11:18
Ben Webb: And I wonder, like I think in terms of like when I put when I put my theater hat on and I'm being a coach, like there is in some ways, I am the auditorium manager and I am a theater teacher, and because I'm wearing both of those hats, it's actually a benefit to me.
11:33
Ben Webb: Do you see that as a similar is that something similar for you where it's like because I have one foot on land, one foot on shore, this is this I can work with this.
11:42
Ben Webb: I get a lot of plates to juggle, but I can work with this.
11:46
Jon Haws: Well, there's certainly uh an awareness of everything that's going on, right?
11:49
Jon Haws: And and so it, you know, sometimes the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
11:52
Jon Haws: I don't we don't I I don't see that as an issue, right?
11:55
Jon Haws: Because I'm I'm sitting in both those chairs.
11:57
Jon Haws: So, you know, I I get the opportunity to um kind of see everything from um not only a a view up top, but also ground level and and heavily involved in in every facet.
12:08
Andy Goveia: So, Carmen, I want to take something John said and take it over to your position.
12:11
Andy Goveia: Because when you talked about why you came into this role, you talked that it looks a little bit more like a central office job.
12:17
Andy Goveia: So could you walk us through why being the Metcalf principal looks a way differently than if, let's say, you were the principal of Prairie Land or Carlock or Glenn, right?
12:27
Andy Goveia: Like what makes this job different from what an instructional leader might look like at a traditional public school, middle school or elementary.
12:38
Carmen Bergmann: Yeah, I mean, it's really not even recognizable in in my mind from the elementary, especially because I was an elementary principal, the middle school does add a dynamic.
12:46
Carmen Bergmann: But um, even more so, I in the in a larger district, I had um there were people in the district who were doing so many of the jobs that I do.
12:57
Carmen Bergmann: So there was a, and you know, I was the elementary curriculum director at one time.
13:02
Carmen Bergmann: So the curriculum director and and their team handled everything to do with curriculum, and then I, as a principal, was really just like a support just for my teachers in that.
13:12
Carmen Bergmann: I wasn't the creator, I wasn't the decider, I was just the support.
13:16
Carmen Bergmann: Whereas now I'm I'm at all of those levels.
13:19
Carmen Bergmann: Um we had people who handled HR completely, and even though we have an HR department, it is um in Illinois State, you know, HR department, I have to fill in all of the um K-12 kind of nuances of that.
13:33
Carmen Bergmann: And um so there's a a big piece of that that I wouldn't have um handled as a as a principal in a larger district.
13:40
Carmen Bergmann: And um then, of course, all of the work with the university.
13:45
Carmen Bergmann: I I mean there isn't a week that goes by that I don't have a handful of meetings that are specific to the university.
13:50
Carmen Bergmann: Um, so I think it's exciting in the sense that I I do get to be a part of a lot of different things, which is what I mean by it feeling like a little bit more like a central office position.
14:02
Carmen Bergmann: You know, once a week uh our principals are meeting with Dr.
14:05
Carmen Bergmann: Jones and we're talking about district level decisions.
14:08
Carmen Bergmann: Um and so I do like that part of it.
14:10
Carmen Bergmann: But the part that's hard for me is that when I was an elementary principal, I was in the classroom every day.
14:15
Carmen Bergmann: And um I I don't have that opportunity in this job.
14:19
Carmen Bergmann: So I do miss that, but I mean you can't have it all.
14:22
Andy Goveia: So take let's let's run with that for a second, because I think there is a giant misconception about the scope of your job out there by for a number of people.
14:32
Andy Goveia: Could you talk about I know sometimes you block off time on your calendar to get into classrooms, but then XYZ pops up and you can't get there.
14:42
Andy Goveia: Could you talk about just really quickly, uh just a little bit about those things that pop up that you're not gonna necessarily see somewhere else, which is why that's what gets in your way of being that presence you want to be.
14:54
Carmen Bergmann: Oh, that's interesting.
14:55
Carmen Bergmann: Um, you know, it a lot of times it is something to do with with the university, something that has come up to do with um, you know, the the clinical opportunities that we have, or that, you know, that a group is gonna be coming to visit and um you know they won't want input on that, or um, you know, little things.
15:15
Carmen Bergmann: I I guess these aren't things that necessarily come up because they're they're scheduled, but like the uh the university-wide safety um meetings and whatnot.
15:24
Carmen Bergmann: Um I do think that there is a difference too in terms of the um our community access to the principal is a little bit different too.
15:36
Carmen Bergmann: Um and so that's another piece is you know the uh like parent meetings.
15:41
Carmen Bergmann: Uh, you know, uh more often I do have those impromptu meetings um at uh Metcalf than I ever had before.
15:48
Carmen Bergmann: Those would have always been scheduled um when in my other role.
15:52
Carmen Bergmann: So um I don't know.
15:54
Carmen Bergmann: It's so hard for me.
15:55
Carmen Bergmann: At the end of the day, sometimes I do look back and think, what is it that that captured my time?
15:59
Carmen Bergmann: I think it's just the the the immense breadth of what I'm involved in.
16:05
Carmen Bergmann: I, you know, like I if you compared the number of pots that I had when I was uh a principal um in the public schools compared to the number of pots that I have at Medcalf, there's a big difference.
16:18
Jon Haws: So Yeah, and I think it'd be fair to say that um in many other places there is a you know uh whether it's an additional person or an additional role, um, like you mentioned safety, for example, right?
16:31
Jon Haws: Like serving on um whether it is a uh a district wide uh committee or it is a university-wide committee that's looking at at safety at at the university and at the lab schools.
16:42
Jon Haws: Uh that may be handled by by somebody else, whereas you know that that does, you know, we work as a team on that, but uh you know that that falls on us to make sure that we are uh prepared um for for a variety um of things.
16:54
Jon Haws: So I I again I think there's sometimes a role specifically for that um in other places, whereas uh for us, we you know it's part of the team approach.
17:03
Andy Goveia: We need to do an episode just on the bureaucracy and hierarchy of ISU and how it's an episode.
17:08
Carmen Bergmann: We could do a whole season.
17:12
Jon Haws: When when when Carmen mentioned the pool at Metcalf, I thought that itself could have been another topic for conversation.
17:19
Andy Goveia: But they got $20 million to redo the pool, let us know.
17:22
Andy Goveia: Cassandra, you're new to your role this year.
17:24
Andy Goveia: And so I think asking you to compare your job to others would be deeply unfair.
17:28
Andy Goveia: Could you maybe talk a little bit about, as you stepped into this role, what surprised you about being the assistant principal that maybe you didn't expect or you expected, but it's turned something differently than you thought it was going to be?
17:43
Cassandra Mattoon: Oh, that's a great question.
17:45
Cassandra Mattoon: Um and also kind of a hard one.
17:48
Cassandra Mattoon: I I honestly can't say that at this point there's something that immediately comes to mind as surprising.
17:57
Cassandra Mattoon: And I think that is due to one of the differences in my mind between the lab schools and maybe other traditional schools is that our faculty has so many leadership role opportunities, and we're involved in so many committees, decision-making processes, processes throughout our time within the lab schools that having sat on prior committees, whether that's school level, district level, or university level, being in other leadership roles, we do have the ability to be exposed to so much that's going on within our lab schools and be hands-on at that ground level, that that really eased that transition for me into that because, and I think helped to your question, big surprises are like, oh my gosh, like I never knew that this was going on within our schools.
19:06
Cassandra Mattoon: I had no idea that working at ISU involved this, right?
19:12
Cassandra Mattoon: Like we're very much, I feel involved in a lot of things along the way through our leadership teams, like I said, through district committees.
19:24
Ben Webb: Um we kind of joked a little bit about like give me a 10-minute slice of your life.
19:30
Ben Webb: And you're like, pick 10 minutes of the day.
19:33
Ben Webb: Yeah, because it changes so much.
19:34
Ben Webb: It sounds very pretty similar for you guys.
19:36
Cassandra Mattoon: Yes.
19:36
Cassandra Mattoon: And so I would say for one thing that I've learned is and continue to learn is just how to manage all of the things that come up every 10 minutes, or um, really what are the priorities within each moment that I need to really think about and address.
19:56
Cassandra Mattoon: Whereas before in teaching preschool and kindergarten, pretty Self-contained, right?
20:01
Cassandra Mattoon: So I had my however many kids I was in those four walls doing all things.
20:05
Cassandra Mattoon: Yes, I was very aware and I cared very much about the whole school.
20:08
Cassandra Mattoon: Um, but now really being able to focus in on that pre-K eight and what are the overall needs of everyone and how to prioritize those in the moment day to day.
20:23
Cassandra Mattoon: And when somebody comes in, I'm the person who wants to, the type of person who just wants to help and solve and support in any way.
20:31
Cassandra Mattoon: And maybe I have to at some point say, I'm gonna have to get back to you because I gotta prioritize something else.
20:39
Cassandra Mattoon: Yeah, and then come back.
20:40
Cassandra Mattoon: And so that can be hard as someone who wants to just yeah, be there at all moments for all things at all times.
20:48
Carmen Bergmann: You know, after I'm gonna come back to your question, Andy, that you had asked about when I block off time.
20:52
Carmen Bergmann: Um hearing both John and Cassandra talk, I think it it clarified for me a little bit.
20:58
Carmen Bergmann: I think the biggest thing that comes up when I try to block time is that any phone call, anything that happens in a classroom, anything that happens in the building, much like what John was saying in other places, there's somebody who has a role.
21:12
Carmen Bergmann: Whereas I have the three of us, those are we have all those roles.
21:16
Carmen Bergmann: So there isn't anybody else to call.
21:19
Carmen Bergmann: It's one of us.
21:19
Carmen Bergmann: And yeah.
21:20
Andy Goveia: So let's that is a perfect segment of our next planned question, which is you all have kind of talked about, and it's been it's really fun to do this podcast when we have a group of people because you get to see how they interact together.
21:34
Andy Goveia: Yeah, and like watching the three of you when you talk about moments that pop up, all of you looking at each other, it leads to this really great question of what does the the like the team?
21:43
Andy Goveia: What does the team what does the admin team approach look like at Metcalf?
21:47
Andy Goveia: And it and I say that not jokingly at all, but like anytime they said, oh, someone's gotta jump up, all three of them in the room are looking at each other, like, oh, you gotta jump up.
21:54
Andy Goveia: And like they're having this moment.
21:55
Andy Goveia: So what does your admin team approach look like, the three of you together?
21:59
Carmen Bergmann: So one thing I want to say, I wanted to follow on when John was talking that has been such a huge blessing for me in the time that I've been here is that um all of my administration experience was in elementary, so K-5.
22:14
Carmen Bergmann: And the middle school aspect added an entire different lit layer that I didn't understand.
22:21
Carmen Bergmann: It was again part of what excited me about this.
22:24
Carmen Bergmann: But having John in the role that he's been in has been amazing because I know if it's anything to do with middle school, he's gonna be able to support that.
22:33
Carmen Bergmann: So I didn't feel like I needed to become an expert in middle school.
22:36
Carmen Bergmann: And I think anytime you're on a team, that's the biggest, the biggest advantage is that we all have our own niches, right?
22:45
Carmen Bergmann: And so I didn't have to become an expert on middle school.
22:48
Carmen Bergmann: I I I I I learn from John every day, but I know that I can go to him when it comes to things, scheduling pieces.
22:57
Carmen Bergmann: Um it it is an entirely different beast than scheduling of what I've had before.
23:01
Carmen Bergmann: And um, so again, I didn't have to become an expert in that because I already have someone on the team who does that.
23:12
Jon Haws: Yeah, I I'd say um, you know, for me too, and thank you, Carmen, I I I really feel the same way about this team.
23:18
Jon Haws: Like we do bring different strengths to the table, even though we have maybe certain titles or certain roles, and maybe on paper it looks like it should be a certain way.
23:26
Jon Haws: Uh, at any given time, any one of us can can pick something up and run with it.
23:31
Jon Haws: And and while we may need to lean on each other at different times for different things, um, and and and at times it's very obvious, right?
23:38
Jon Haws: Like whose lane this this falls in.
23:40
Jon Haws: And we do our best, uh, you know, as as an administrative team and and with our staff to say, hey, if you have a question about this, you go to Carmen or or go to Cassandra myself.
23:49
Jon Haws: Um, but really it's it's zone defense all the time because at any one moment, um, you know, I could be gone, Carmen could be out, Cassandra could be out.
23:57
Jon Haws: And um, it's an awful feeling when you don't feel like you can be gone, right?
24:03
Jon Haws: Like, oh, I I'm I'm not feeling great, or maybe I have some personal thing, I have some family things come up, like I I I have to be in the building because of this.
24:10
Jon Haws: Um, but the ability to lean on this team, lean on them.
24:15
Jon Haws: Uh and and it's not just even the people in this room.
24:17
Jon Haws: I want to I want to express that as well.
24:19
Jon Haws: Um it's it's yeah, it's our truly our our our teachers and support staff as as well.
24:25
Jon Haws: You know, we can we can lean on one another and feel like, yeah, we can take a deep breath at times, or heaven forbid, we go to an appointment or sometimes eat lunch, right?
24:33
Jon Haws: Like we can we can lean on each other.
24:35
Jon Haws: So yeah.
24:36
Carmen Bergmann: I want to kind of add on that.
24:37
Carmen Bergmann: And part of what you said, Ben, as as soon as I got done talking, it occurred to me when you when you talked about our admin team sitting here, it's hard for me to even um think about the not having the other parts of our admin team, and that is Becky Newskin, our business manager, Marissa Held, our office manager, um, Jordan Harrison, our um tech um director, and then um Lisa Um is uh the Hillia director as well.
25:06
Carmen Bergmann: So um that even when John was saying feeling okay about being away, this is the actually the most comfortable.
25:13
Carmen Bergmann: I at one on one hand, I told you I have many more responsibilities here than I've ever had.
25:18
Carmen Bergmann: I'm also the most comfortable to to be away um because everything we are all cross-trained.
25:26
Carmen Bergmann: Um and yeah, uh it it is it is truly a full team effort in what we do.
25:33
Andy Goveia: Kerman's also grateful for building leadership team chairs that she has had as well.
25:38
Carmen Bergmann: All of the building leadership chairs.
25:39
Carmen Bergmann: All two that she has.
25:40
Carmen Bergmann: Well, especially the one this year.
25:41
Andy Goveia: Yeah, this year's is great.
25:42
Andy Goveia: She's really good.
25:43
Andy Goveia: She is the best.
25:44
Andy Goveia: The way better than the guy they had last year.
25:46
Andy Goveia: Last year was a disaster.
25:49
Carmen Bergmann: I couldn't have made it through my first couple years without Andy.
25:51
Andy Goveia: Cassandra, what do you you're new to the team?
25:53
Cassandra Mattoon: Yes.
25:54
Cassandra Mattoon: And I would echo and reiterate everything that has been said so far.
25:59
Cassandra Mattoon: And relating that back to your question of like what's been a big surprise, and why I can say there's not a lot of huge things that come to my mind as far as surprises, because of the team in which we surround ourselves with the people around this table, including, you know, faculty, all the faculty and associate he does.
26:21
Cassandra Mattoon: Um, you know, all the faculty and associate back at school, the office staff, like the team does definitely expand beyond this table of people that are here right now, but that has helped because we can lean on each other.
26:36
Cassandra Mattoon: There's never been a moment where I have thought that I can't go to, again, anyone in the school, but specifically in this new role to Carmen and John and ask a question, feel comfortable having a conversation about something.
26:51
Cassandra Mattoon: And then two, through that, asking that question is this something that I'm supposed to handle?
26:57
Cassandra Mattoon: Is this something that you handle?
26:58
Cassandra Mattoon: Who's and sometimes it's there's not a necessarily a clear cut, it's we're making those decisions of, you know what, I got this one, or who is the best person for this?
27:08
Cassandra Mattoon: And so that has really helped, and I appreciate that team.
27:16
Cassandra Mattoon: And as I said before, too, like we have some very broad understandings of all the things that go on, and now I'm learning, okay, but exactly what are the details of how that works or who is specifically.
27:30
Cassandra Mattoon: I've always had that list that says who's responsible for what thing that we all get at the beginning of the year, right?
27:35
Cassandra Mattoon: At those in services.
27:37
Cassandra Mattoon: But when it comes down to the true in that moment, exactly how are those things handled and what are we going to do?
27:45
Cassandra Mattoon: And I think just our flexibility and willingness to support each other is huge.
27:51
Cassandra Mattoon: And I'm very, very grateful for our collaborative approach to be the best.
27:58
Andy Goveia: One thing I think that this is I'll take, I'll take a personal sidebar.
28:01
Andy Goveia: I don't do this a ton, but I'll do a personal sidebar here.
28:04
Andy Goveia: One of the things I don't think the three of you have realized you've said is you've set a very open culture of conversation.
28:09
Andy Goveia: Like I have no problem walking to into any of your offices.
28:12
Andy Goveia: And like John and I don't always agree on everything middle school, but I can walk in, John and I can have a conversation.
28:17
Andy Goveia: I'll go, I don't see it that way.
28:18
Andy Goveia: I'll go, all right, well, we talked.
28:20
Andy Goveia: And there's no ill will.
28:21
Andy Goveia: I can walk into I the culture the three of you have set, whether you realize that or not, where people can walk into the office and know they're going to be supported and helped, or you've created spaces of thought and conversation.
28:33
Andy Goveia: I I hope you realize that you've created that.
28:36
Andy Goveia: So kudos.
28:37
Jon Haws: Yeah.
28:37
Jon Haws: And and I will say, Andy, real quick, one thing that Carmen mentioned was it's very difficult to get into classrooms, right, regularly.
28:43
Jon Haws: But that does not, and to your point a moment ago, does not mean that um we're we're not visible and and responsive, right?
28:51
Jon Haws: And so I think because we are, you know, at different times working together and collaborating with with teachers, it it's funny, it kind of takes you away from those moments where we just want we just want to be in a classroom, we just want to be with kids.
29:03
Jon Haws: And um, you know, the truth is like, well, I can't be with kids because I'm too busy supporting kids, right?
29:08
Jon Haws: Or teachers, right, in in other ways.
29:10
Jon Haws: And um, so I I just again with our with our um this admin team, um, really finding ways to meet the needs of of everyone to the best of our ability.
29:21
Jon Haws: Um, it it sometimes does come out of detriment to the where we'd rather we we love helping out, right?
29:27
Jon Haws: It's not that but we we would we want to find times, you know, to to be in the classroom or regularly, things like that.
29:32
Ben Webb: And Carmen, your email signature.
29:34
Jon Haws: Brilliant.
29:36
Carmen Bergmann: Thank you.
29:37
Ben Webb: I love that so much.
29:38
Ben Webb: I can't do it.
29:39
Ben Webb: I just can't.
29:39
Ben Webb: Well, I mean, you were talking about we do so many things.
29:42
Ben Webb: I'm in so many different committees, whether it's here in my building, at the college level, across both buildings.
29:48
Ben Webb: But like, if I send an email to you, I see that little signature, I'm like, okay, I can trust this expert that it's become if I don't get a response back in 15 minutes, I know a good enough reason, which is it's because you're there for those kids.
30:01
Carmen Bergmann: So I'm I'm I I would say, I mean, that that came out of just I I needed something to make myself feel better because the the pure volume of emails that we get.
30:13
Carmen Bergmann: You're accessible.
30:14
Carmen Bergmann: I I have never had anything like that before, and I had a lot of guilt about not responding right away.
30:21
Carmen Bergmann: And you know, there'll be times I'll be gone for an hour and I'll come back to 60 emails.
30:24
Carmen Bergmann: And so um, yeah, that just it took it off my plate a little bit.
30:28
Andy Goveia: Did you get in?
30:28
Andy Goveia: So if you go to if you ever get an email from Carmen, it says at the very bottom under her contact info, I'm so fortunate to spend my days from eight to three with 500 incredible learners and nearly a hundred dedicated staff members.
30:40
Andy Goveia: During this time, my focus is on supporting our school community.
30:43
Andy Goveia: So email responses may be delayed or brief.
30:45
Andy Goveia: Thank you for understanding as I prioritize our students' learning.
30:49
Ben Webb: When was the last time you had to leave at three?
30:52
Carmen Bergmann: No, but that's where I'm saying that eight to three is when everybody is there.
30:55
Carmen Bergmann: But you know, I mean, just considering those emails from three to three to ten.
31:00
Andy Goveia: So as we kind of get to the end-ish of our time here, um there's so much joy in this conversation.
31:06
Andy Goveia: So let's turn it and go a little negative.
31:08
Andy Goveia: What John and Cassandra, tell us about your boss.
31:12
Andy Goveia: How is she?
31:13
Andy Goveia: What for each of you in your roles and your work here and the time you've been here, what's a challenge that you see for the lab schools in general?
31:23
Andy Goveia: Maybe not necessarily Metcalf, but from your positions, the work you do day to day, what's a challenge you see for our system?
31:29
Andy Goveia: Um, challenge could be positive, could be negative, but what's a challenge that you see for us as we continue this mission of serving the greater educational community?
31:44
Cassandra Mattoon: I would say one thing that is a challenge is simply answering that question and being accountable to what is a lab school.
31:55
Cassandra Mattoon: And so what is our role?
31:59
Cassandra Mattoon: How do we do things differently, better?
32:03
Cassandra Mattoon: How do we um keep meeting the needs of not only our students that are enrolled within the lab schools, but the entire ISU community as well.
32:17
Cassandra Mattoon: And I say that because there's departments all over.
32:20
Cassandra Mattoon: It's not just, you know, there's teaching programs in all the different departments.
32:24
Cassandra Mattoon: So that's a huge challenge to be able to really meet all of those needs and stay in the forefront of education and um keep being those leaders within education.
32:42
Cassandra Mattoon: So that constant defining of what are the lab schools and how do we keep showing everyone how wonderful we are, but that we are, you know, up and coming with what's best for students everywhere.
32:58
Ben Webb: I am gonna go full English teacher on you because you answered the question with the question.
33:02
Ben Webb: Um are okay, so I'm gonna here's a quotation Are we a mirror held up to society to say this is what education looks like, or are we a hammer to shape it?
33:16
Carmen Bergmann: Ooh, that's a good question.
33:18
Ben Webb: Hammer or mirror?
33:19
Ben Webb: Oh, that's a Mr.
33:22
Ben Webb: Web.
33:23
Ben Webb: This is what happens when you answer the question either with the question.
33:26
Cassandra Mattoon: Well, isn't it really mean to do that, like as a way around the question?
33:30
Cassandra Mattoon: But yes, that is I think that's what we struggle with all the time, though, truly.
33:35
Cassandra Mattoon: Um I would say, oh, we've gotta be a gentle hammer.
33:45
Cassandra Mattoon: Gentle, gentle hammer.
33:47
Cassandra Mattoon: Like those little ones.
33:52
Andy Goveia: Very reflective hammer.
33:54
Andy Goveia: I love it.
33:54
Andy Goveia: Very shiny.
33:55
Carmen Bergmann: So I'm gonna use an analogy um that I actually just thought of.
33:59
Carmen Bergmann: Um with my time at ISU as a softball player and um what I see as the biggest challenge.
34:06
Carmen Bergmann: So when I um when I came to Illinois State, obviously everyone on that team in a Division I school with scholarships, we were all the all-stars of our teams.
34:17
Carmen Bergmann: Um, so I was the best player on my team for one of the best players of my team for a for a long time.
34:23
Carmen Bergmann: And then all of a sudden I came to ISU and I was on a field with a bunch of other all-stars.
34:28
Carmen Bergmann: So none of us were in that all-star position anymore.
34:32
Carmen Bergmann: And it was, it was such a huge shift that my first reaction was to just be careful and make sure that I did things that I knew that I was good at, that I, that I did well.
34:44
Carmen Bergmann: But that wasn't gonna get me the playing time, that wasn't gonna get me my goals.
34:48
Carmen Bergmann: And so um I do feel like it's a little bit like that at the lab schools because our teachers are the all-stars of teaching.
34:57
Carmen Bergmann: And um I think that in some cases that comes with fear of making mistake and not not being that all-star and uh not feeling as comfortable taking those risks to just try something completely new and accept the fact that it might be a little bit ugly or messy at first.
35:16
Carmen Bergmann: And um, so I think it's hard.
35:18
Carmen Bergmann: You know, teachers in general have the reputation of being perfectionists, and I think that our teachers in the lab schools um are very, very strong teachers, and uh again, kind of the all-stars coming coming in, and uh it's it's hard.
35:32
Carmen Bergmann: It's hard to uh uh be vulnerable, I guess.
35:38
Jon Haws: Yeah, I think for me, um the challenges our lab schools have constantly is just proving to the university, right, and the community like why we're needed.
35:48
Jon Haws: Um you know, you want to make sure that you are advocating for the lab schools, um, you know, or Metcalf specifically in our in our case, um, but also making sure that we're not like a parasite to the university, right?
36:02
Jon Haws: Um we we want to make sure that there's that dual role, right?
36:05
Jon Haws: We have to make sure that we are um really living up to our expectations, and one of our pillars, right, the in the mission of the lab schools is um is service to the university uh and and the profession in general.
36:19
Jon Haws: And so when we look at that, but also we're so different than any other department on campus, and constantly advocating for like, well, wait a minute, let's think about the K-12 population and how different that is.
36:30
Jon Haws: Educating K-12 versus educating um at the collegiate level is is much, much different.
36:36
Jon Haws: Uh and so um, you know, it's it's constantly um you know working in that balance of of advocacy um and and and what feels like needing to to prove our our worth, even though I I feel like the um university really um you know appreciates at least we feel with with clinical opportunities um and and and what we're able to do with the College of Ed and in collaboration with them, it's it's very evident that the the lab schools are are a great place to be.
37:07
Jon Haws: Um however it doesn't stop us from you know when when something uh maybe something new comes comes across our desk, we we just look at it with a very different lens.
37:16
Jon Haws: And it just you know says, oh, well, wait a minute, before we make this adjustment, what does that mean for us in K-12?
37:22
Jon Haws: Um, you know, what what does that look like?
37:23
Jon Haws: So it's just something that's always maybe in the back of our minds uh that may not be on the minds of the forefront of everybody else um uh on campus.
37:31
Andy Goveia: If ever you need a new mascot, parasite the lab school parasites fighting for food.
37:38
Andy Goveia: Um what's a we got a couple more minutes left.
37:42
Andy Goveia: And so uh this wasn't on the list, but I it I promise this is not a tricky question.
37:47
Andy Goveia: I promise.
37:47
Andy Goveia: And Ben just redirected me because I walked away, I moved away from the microphone like I do.
37:52
Andy Goveia: What's a shout-out you want to give to something happening in our building right now?
37:55
Andy Goveia: Something you're excited about, someone who's doing something cool, it could be kids, adults, what just a shout-out, something you wish people you could shout.
38:04
Andy Goveia: This is so amazing.
38:05
Andy Goveia: Let me tell you about it.
38:07
Ben Webb: And I just want to thank all of you for saying the people at this table, because I felt included, even though I don't work in your building.
38:17
Jon Haws: I I think I'll I'll start with this one.
38:19
Jon Haws: I I do feel like the number of um initiatives that we have going on right now, um, and and and it could be even the the smallest risks that teachers are trying or new things are trying in their classroom.
38:31
Jon Haws: Uh I I do feel like our teachers have those um opportunities and often they run with them.
38:38
Jon Haws: Uh and no one is more um you know critical um of themselves and and more concerned with failure than than those who are trying those things.
38:49
Jon Haws: And we're just it's you know part of our job just to continue to support them and to kind of you know give grace when possible, say, hey, it didn't work out.
38:56
Jon Haws: Well guess what?
38:57
Jon Haws: You learned something.
38:58
Jon Haws: You learnt you learned something that doesn't work.
38:59
Jon Haws: Now it's you know go back to the drawing board.
39:01
Jon Haws: But there are a number of things, whether it be our Friday workshops, whether it be um um ways that are uh we have a third and fourth grade um uh set of classroom teachers that are looping.
39:12
Jon Haws: Um we have new strategies in our first and second grade classrooms this year, uh outdoor education, obviously, right?
39:18
Jon Haws: Like a number of different things that we have going on that are well beyond uh maybe what would be expected or even um even tried in a in a traditional public school setting.
39:30
Jon Haws: Uh so just truly a shout out to our staff for just never being satisfied and and getting used to kind of being a little bit uncomfortable at times, even though it's it's very hard for teachers, right, to uh sometimes accept failure or go down a path that may not work out.
39:47
Jon Haws: Um and and so yeah, definitely kudos to our our staff for just trying new things constantly.
39:55
Cassandra Mattoon: And I would say yes, yes, yes.
39:59
Cassandra Mattoon: To everything that John just said, and also to pick up a little bit on one of those pieces and not to go too much into this at this point in time.
40:08
Cassandra Mattoon: But our Fridays look very different this year at Metcalf for many of our grades.
40:15
Cassandra Mattoon: And even this semester, we're adding in some new pieces too that I can't think of anybody really within our building that hasn't done some new things on Fridays this year, who hasn't had to adjust, who hasn't had to go, oh, that didn't quite work.
40:37
Cassandra Mattoon: What are we doing next?
40:38
Cassandra Mattoon: And those reflective conversations, those collaborative conversations throughout this whole year with our Fridays has just been amazing.
40:49
Cassandra Mattoon: And I am so grateful to our faculty for being able to have conversations.
40:55
Cassandra Mattoon: And I'm just going to speak for myself directly because I meet with them and I'm like, how is this going?
40:59
Cassandra Mattoon: What do we need to do?
41:00
Cassandra Mattoon: How do we adjust?
41:01
Cassandra Mattoon: And having those open conversations.
41:03
Cassandra Mattoon: And it's been a lot of adjustments throughout this year, but we're doing things to better meet the needs of our students.
41:12
Cassandra Mattoon: And I am just so thankful and so grateful for every faculty member who's been along on this journey and helped shape it and continuing to help make it the best that it can be.
41:28
Carmen Bergmann: Yes, we've had a lot of risk takers this year and um staying very strong through that journey.
41:34
Carmen Bergmann: Um, I guess one of my biggest shout outs would be, and this is just um Metcalf in general, is something that I've learned and um that really strikes me.
41:43
Carmen Bergmann: We've had interviews uh with candidates who will ask something about, like if you could say one word about Metcalf, what would it be?
41:51
Carmen Bergmann: And you go around the table and everybody says home.
41:54
Carmen Bergmann: And uh, you know, the those people who have gotten the job and then come in have said that is absolutely what it is.
42:01
Carmen Bergmann: I mean, it is a group of people who are so incredibly dedicated to the work that they're doing, but also um to each other.
42:08
Carmen Bergmann: I've said many times, we may not all agree, but if any one of our staff members goes down, the entire staff will be there to pick them up.
42:15
Carmen Bergmann: So um it is a pr it is a pretty good feeling.
42:18
Carmen Bergmann: But I think some of that stems from the fact that we have kids there from pre-K through eighth grade as well.
42:23
Carmen Bergmann: Um, the kids are really, really wrapped up.
42:25
Carmen Bergmann: The teachers know them, they know their families, they know their siblings.
42:29
Carmen Bergmann: Um, so I I I guess just a really big shout out to creating that kind of an environment and uh of home.
42:38
Andy Goveia: So when it's your first time on the pod, you get what we call the fast five.
42:42
Andy Goveia: So John and Cassandra, these are brief, quick questions.
42:45
Andy Goveia: Lightning round.
42:46
Andy Goveia: Lightning round.
42:46
Andy Goveia: Are you ready?
42:47
Andy Goveia: Let's do it.
42:48
Cassandra Mattoon: Do we go one at a time or answer at the same time?
42:52
Andy Goveia: You I'm gonna want you to go one at a time because Ben's sound editing is is good.
42:56
Andy Goveia: I don't know that he wants that challenge.
42:58
Andy Goveia: Uh, who would you say most led you into education?
43:04
Jon Haws: Uh for me, it'd be my grandfather.
43:09
Cassandra Mattoon: Um, I would say teachers that I've had in the past, especially my sixth grade teacher.
43:16
Andy Goveia: What is your go-to caffeine to get through the school day?
43:19
Andy Goveia: Oh, just coffee.
43:22
Cassandra Mattoon: Coffee.
43:23
Andy Goveia: Favorite subject when you were a student?
43:25
Andy Goveia: P-E.
43:28
Cassandra Mattoon: Reading.
43:29
Andy Goveia: What you pick one of these categories, don't do us all three.
43:32
Andy Goveia: Steve Evans did all three.
43:33
Andy Goveia: It was a very lengthy conversation.
43:35
Andy Goveia: What are you either reading, watching, or listening to right now?
43:40
Andy Goveia: And it does not have to be scholarly, it can be trash.
43:44
Cassandra Mattoon: I am in the middle of the uh Glass of Thrones series.
43:50
Jon Haws: Wow, okay.
43:53
Ben Webb: Man, you're gonna make me think about this one.
43:55
Ben Webb: Lightning round.
43:59
Jon Haws: Yeah, I know, I know.
44:00
Jon Haws: So it's you're sorry, reading.
44:01
Andy Goveia: What are you reading, watching, or listening to?
44:03
Carmen Bergmann: You don't have time for any of that.
44:04
Carmen Bergmann: That's what I'm saying.
44:05
Jon Haws: Like, I I just ounce.
44:09
Jon Haws: Um if it, you know, if it's obviously it's not working at working a game at Metcalf, I'm going to a game or driving to a practice or um, so I I am lacking in downtime.
44:18
Jon Haws: I am watching your life.
44:20
Jon Haws: Yeah, watching your life.
44:20
Jon Haws: And occasionally the inside of my eyelids, not often.
44:23
Cassandra Mattoon: You know, it does take me about three months to get through one book, but I will I'm there.
44:28
Cassandra Mattoon: I'm reading as much as I can.
44:30
Andy Goveia: Finally, what is your favorite thing about being a part of the lab schools?
44:38
Jon Haws: Uh for me, it's it's it's family.
44:40
Jon Haws: Um, whether it's again my own, you know, family who who's at the lab schools, it's just a part of who we are now.
44:47
Jon Haws: Um, but also as Carmen said, it's like it's truly it's dysfunctional at times, right?
44:52
Jon Haws: We fight, but uh, but but it's our Metcalf family.
44:55
Jon Haws: Um and you know, I you know, Andy knows exactly what I'm talking about because we've had many many a fireside chat at Outdoor Ed.
45:02
Andy Goveia: We have truly quite midnight fireside chat.
45:05
Andy Goveia: Right.
45:05
Jon Haws: Um but but truly, I mean that's that's what it is.
45:08
Jon Haws: I I try and envision myself, you know, elsewhere, or like what would it look like?
45:12
Jon Haws: I I it's it's hard picturing not getting up and and coming to Metcalf every day.
45:20
Cassandra Mattoon: It's my second home.
45:21
Cassandra Mattoon: It's where I belong.
45:23
Cassandra Mattoon: Due to the people, the students, the faculty, the families, everyone.
45:28
Cassandra Mattoon: It's home.
45:30
Andy Goveia: So this has been Live in the Lab Schools.
45:32
Andy Goveia: Thank you to John Hawes, Cassandra Mattoon, Carmen Bergman for our conversation about what administrative work looks like at Metcalf.
45:39
Andy Goveia: Thank you, all three of you, for being here.
45:42
Andy Goveia: And that'll be it for this week, Mr.
45:44
Andy Goveia: Webb.
45:45
Ben Webb: To learn more about Thomas Metcalf School, find us at metcalf.elinoystate.edu.
45:52
Ben Webb: That is M-E-T-C A L F dot Illinois State.edu.