Latest / Love You Moore with Willie Moore Jr. / Former First Lady Myesha Chaney: “It Was Either DIE… or LEAVE”

Transcript

Former First Lady Myesha Chaney: “It Was Either DIE… or LEAVE” · Love You Moore with Willie Moore Jr.

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Next, on the Love You More Show.
0:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And then finally, you're the first lady of a church, worship leader, on television, preachers of LA, and then you make the decision.
0:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that had to be a wrestle on how many people that you will let down, because as pastors, I know you have talked to so many people and talked them off the ledge of being divorced.
0:21
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it was so tough.
0:24
[SPEAKER_07]: It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my entire life.
0:29
[SPEAKER_07]: I knew, I'm not dealing with no more.
0:32
[SPEAKER_07]: I know that.
0:33
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
0:33
[SPEAKER_07]: We're done.
0:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, I can't take it anymore.
0:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't going to be loved correctly for my kitchen.
0:43
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed there to be loved with action.
0:45
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed there to be consideration.
0:47
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed to be seen as a person.
0:50
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed somebody to notice when life was hard and do something about it.
0:56
[SPEAKER_02]: What part of the relationship was the most unhealthy?
0:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it communication?
1:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it?
1:05
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm gonna take accountability for me.
1:06
[SPEAKER_07]: My inability to set boundaries and know what I need and what I don't want to do.
1:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey family, Willie Mojoon, you're here and welcome to another edition of the Love You More Show.
1:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I be honest with you?
1:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so excited to be sitting right back here on this couch.
1:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Anybody who knows me, they call me a Jamaican because I got plenty of jobs, babe.
1:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh, I worry about 45 different hats, but I like this one the best, come on somebody.
1:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Family The Love You More Show is designed for anybody who's been through hurt, heartbreak, in relationships, and their journey on getting back on track and becoming victorious again.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I continuously tell my story, of course I was married for 15 years, and then of course I went through a very unique uncomfortable thing.
1:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand this, that people are overcome by the blood of the lamb and the words of a testimony, your testimony, and so today you're going to hear one of the most amazing testimonies of our time.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Now this young lady, she hails from the LBC.
2:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I asked her this, you know, Snoop Dogg.
2:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what she's saying, yes or not.
2:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do understand that this woman, let me tell you how I got to know her.
2:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I ended up looking online and I guess because of this show, it populates different subject matters.
2:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And for the first time in my life, I say no woman of God who was speaking about divorce so candidly, but not aggressive.
2:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So honest, but not hurtful.
2:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, hmm, I might need to take a deep dive in what she's doing.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I ended up spending about an hour with her online, just looking at all of these different videos.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, you know what?
2:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I think people who have been through similar situations are thinking about similar situations need to hear from her.
2:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, she is an author, she is a speaker, she is a singer, and in her words, she's your new best friend.
2:58
[SPEAKER_02]: The one and only my is the Chinese team.
3:00
[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on, sis?
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything is wonderful.
3:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Listen, I was so impressed when I had the opportunity to kind of check out your YouTube channel.
3:09
[SPEAKER_02]: For those people who don't necessarily know, you were married to Pastor Cheney.
3:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You was all over the reality TV shows.
3:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that you were actually a part of the preacher's wife, that particular reality show, and then the preachers of LA.
3:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I met you in 2012 at the Merge Conference.
3:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and pastor Chaining and I remember it was like those are the goals.
3:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's relationship goals goals and I'm young have broke And just listen to myself my wife and smile and like this, so that man doing something right But I'm so grateful that you will come today
3:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's it's an honor honestly.
3:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
3:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So the way we do it here on the love you more show is we like to start off with a musical icebreaker and in this particular icebreaker this is kind of loosely based on a process that I went through in my form of marriage where they always tell you you need to go to counseling.
4:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Because everybody wants you to go to counseling.
4:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure everybody said to me, you know, go to counseling.
4:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I go to counseling and this is what happened.
4:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So wifey started counseling and she thought it would be a good idea for me to come to counseling.
4:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I really want to do this.
4:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I know she's been telling this woman all my business.
4:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I walk in the counseling.
4:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how counseling would this fire.
4:31
[SPEAKER_02]: She's been telling all my business.
4:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I walk in.
4:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, ladies.
4:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I was at the wrong spot and I'm on.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for joining us truly my honor Willie Maltz.
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: She nice to meet you my honor.
4:43
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my counselor April so nice to meet her wife So glad you can make it darling.
4:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's truly my honor.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: You look amazing you do too energy in the room a little tears wife until my business
4:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk this out and from a hug I'm like, okay, you ready?
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I am, you know, um, whatever you want me to do, I'm with it.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you going to tell the truth?
5:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I promise I'm going to tell the truth, you weren't it?
5:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Huh, I was a little like a Christmas tree when I told her she was worth the child.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I would do you better.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you had in my life.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like a clock around, you know what stops, do you see it?
6:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The name of the song is Clockwork.
6:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's available now wherever you download music, so make sure that you check it out.
6:36
[SPEAKER_02]: My Easter Chinese still hanging out with me.
6:39
[SPEAKER_02]: My Easter I got to ask you this, you know, as I, as I seen them, and you were watching.
6:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking about you guys, you and your, your former husband being such relationship goals.
6:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like you tried everything that you could to make a work?
6:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you all try counseling and all of that stuff?
6:55
[SPEAKER_07]: I did.
6:56
[SPEAKER_07]: I think I did everything that I could.
7:00
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, everything that I could to sustain the marriage for as long as I could.
7:06
[SPEAKER_07]: We went to counseling.
7:07
[SPEAKER_07]: I think we went to counseling too late.
7:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
7:09
[SPEAKER_07]: I think it's better if you just go for tuneups from jump.
7:15
[SPEAKER_07]: But counseling was my last ditch effort like, let's go and do this because if our marriage is going to be saved,
7:22
[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to have to do all we can and counseling is one of those things that I felt like let's just check it off the box honestly.
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And so how did my issue grow up was like, did you grow up with mother and father in the home?
7:33
[SPEAKER_07]: I was like, I grew up mom and dad were married.
7:37
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
7:39
[SPEAKER_07]: in the life, so he was a neighborhood-confident crap.
7:43
[SPEAKER_07]: He was into all the things in an out of jail and had a crack addiction.
7:48
[SPEAKER_07]: My mom told us that my dad was on vacation.
7:51
[SPEAKER_07]: We didn't even know, so I grew up with that emptiness.
7:55
[SPEAKER_07]: He came home and when I was about in the fifth grade.
7:59
[SPEAKER_07]: And we just seemed to have like a traditional upbringing with just a lot of
8:05
[SPEAKER_07]: extras that come with people who have been in the life, but I said the life that mean he was in the streets.
8:11
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he was in the streets.
8:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he was he was about it.
8:15
[SPEAKER_07]: He had he had pulled out a gun.
8:16
[SPEAKER_07]: He had pistol with you.
8:17
[SPEAKER_07]: He he was about it.
8:19
[SPEAKER_07]: So I always had this fear in my heart that at any moment that was going to take it there.
8:25
[SPEAKER_07]: And I knew he would.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you were choosing a man, it's often said that the daughter marries a man like their father, was that the case for you or did you go the total opposite?
8:40
[SPEAKER_07]: I thought I was going the total opposite, right?
8:43
[SPEAKER_07]: Because I felt like this meant, but honestly, when I met, when I met my ex-husband, I was like, he is fine, I'm doing whatever he's doing.
8:51
[SPEAKER_07]: I'd never even questioned who he was and what he was about.
8:56
[SPEAKER_07]: You're a pastor, obviously you're good-looking.
8:59
[SPEAKER_07]: So from the outside, this is a great situation.
9:01
[SPEAKER_07]: I honestly didn't know anything else.
9:03
[SPEAKER_07]: So I got in the marriage and the relationship from an external position, nothing inside.
9:10
[SPEAKER_07]: And I ended up marrying a lot of qualities that my dad had that thought, and maybe it wasn't Wayne, experientially me.
9:20
[SPEAKER_07]: being who I am felt like I was in my childhood self at many point in my marriage.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So growing up in LBC, Dad's industry, what type of woman is mom?
9:31
[SPEAKER_07]: Mom is accepting.
9:33
[SPEAKER_07]: Mom is quiet, but she's strong.
9:36
[SPEAKER_07]: Mom is loyal to a fault.
9:39
[SPEAKER_07]: And mom taught me how to grin and bear a lot and how to move forward and accept things as they are.
9:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
9:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So you see my being accepting what were some of the things that you seen her accept that you decided on the inside at that moment like I'll hell no I'm never accepting that.
10:01
[SPEAKER_07]: So when I saw a growing up, because my dad would get, he would just rage out, like he would get angry, he would get upset, I had a good relationship with him because I felt like as long as I was doing good and I follow all the rules, I stay out of trouble.
10:16
[SPEAKER_07]: So I seem like the angel and I avoid it conflict by being perfect.
10:22
[SPEAKER_07]: When I saw that go off, go crazy.
10:24
[SPEAKER_07]: Mom would just be like, you know your dad.
10:27
[SPEAKER_07]: You know how he is.
10:28
[SPEAKER_07]: And as a child, I was saying, I don't want to do that.
10:32
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't want to be around that.
10:33
[SPEAKER_07]: If this is not love to me, like you don't talk to people this way.
10:37
[SPEAKER_07]: Like I knew as a child that it wasn't okay.
10:40
[SPEAKER_07]: And yet when I grew up and got in a relationship for myself, a lot of things that I thought I would have said, Oh, no, I'm not doing this.
10:48
[SPEAKER_07]: I accepted.
10:49
[SPEAKER_07]: Just like mom.
10:50
[SPEAKER_07]: And a part of my healing was telling my mom, I learned a lot from you that was not okay.
10:56
[SPEAKER_02]: important is that for other people who may have, you know, I often say the way that you were raised is not the way you were made, right?
11:05
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people think because you was raised this way, the Bible says that we're fearfully and wonderfully made, but it may not necessarily be as wonderful the way that you were raised and I would rather take
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: the stance of, man, I'm from the neighborhood.
11:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And so even coming into the gospel or even in a relationship for me, I was taught to have a woman for every knee, right?
11:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I grew up around those type of guys.
11:27
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where hip hop taught me to do.
11:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So then coming into Christ, it's like, that's the way I was raised, but that's not the way that I was made.
11:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And so how important was it for you to come to the realization, like as much as I love you, my own.
11:41
[SPEAKER_02]: As much as I honor you, pops.
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That was some things that I really picked up that I shouldn't have picked up.
11:46
[SPEAKER_07]: The crazy thing is I didn't have that conversation until I was 40 years old after my divorce was filed and I started doing the work.
11:54
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
11:55
[SPEAKER_07]: I didn't know.
11:56
[SPEAKER_07]: I went five years in therapy and knew I was like kind of healing part of my trauma.
12:02
[SPEAKER_07]: But it wasn't until I was fully divorced and doing my healing work that I realized until I resolved some of this stuff, I'm gonna continue to replay this in the next relationship and it's not okay.
12:15
[SPEAKER_07]: So this is like a year ago, I sat at a round table and said, Dad, I watched you do this, this, this and this.
12:23
[SPEAKER_07]: And it was not okay.
12:25
[SPEAKER_07]: And it deeply affected me, and mom, I saw you do this, so it is very important to go back and heal that trauma.
12:33
[SPEAKER_07]: I wish I could have resolved my childhood stuff before I got married.
12:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:39
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all honorable to say.
12:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish.
12:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I see so many young ladies.
12:44
[SPEAKER_02]: living out their childhood and taking out what they wish they could have took out on their father to their own their husband.
12:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I get a chance to see it with so many different types of men.
12:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And me and tell me all the time.
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like sometimes when she angry with the list of stuff that she mad at, I'm thinking to myself, it don't even require all that.
13:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
13:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But I've learned now that there's a little girl and there's a little boy in each one of us.
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And as long as that little girl
13:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you offend a little boy in me, it's either up to me to respond like that little boy, or I'm going to respond like the man that I know I'm supposed to be.
13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, I don't know which one's going to win, depending on what day it is, and depending on how tough you are.
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: If there was one thing that you took from your childhood, and you like, man, I wish I wouldn't took that into my marriage.
13:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And you take full accountability for what would that be?
13:36
[SPEAKER_07]: I never felt safe, never felt safe in the world, never felt safe in my body, never felt emotionally safe.
13:45
[SPEAKER_07]: And that was up to me to create that safety.
13:47
[SPEAKER_07]: But as a child, you rely on the people in your life to do that for you.
13:52
[SPEAKER_07]: So when I got married, I still didn't feel safe.
13:54
[SPEAKER_07]: But you married a pastor.
13:56
[SPEAKER_07]: That's the, that's the part of it all and I and I jump completely off the cliff.
14:01
[SPEAKER_07]: Finally, I have love because that's all I've ever wanted.
14:05
[SPEAKER_07]: Finally, I'm safe.
14:06
[SPEAKER_07]: Finally, I'm here.
14:07
[SPEAKER_07]: And unfortunately, that work was for me to do.
14:12
[SPEAKER_07]: It wasn't based on who I was in a relationship with or who I was married to.
14:16
[SPEAKER_07]: It's up to me.
14:16
[SPEAKER_07]: And I had to go through two decades.
14:20
[SPEAKER_07]: of inside feeling like I just want to take the clothes out of my suitcase and put them in the drawer, but couldn't.
14:29
[SPEAKER_07]: And didn't have the skill.
14:31
[SPEAKER_07]: So when I got divorced, I was like, I hit rock bottom.
14:36
[SPEAKER_07]: everything in my life was over, essentially.
14:39
[SPEAKER_07]: I lost 100% of the things that mattered to me.
14:42
[SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, finally, you are going to do the work.
14:47
[SPEAKER_07]: We are not coming back here.
14:48
[SPEAKER_07]: And you're going to go and dig up everybody that you thought you buried.
14:52
[SPEAKER_07]: You're going to go through all of the things.
14:54
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's took me about two years to finally feel like, I am at home in myself.
15:02
[SPEAKER_07]: Finally, I don't have the little girls with me, but we've had such a good relationship over these past, I mean, I go to go play.
15:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Not so easy.
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you going somewhere?
15:13
[SPEAKER_07]: The work.
15:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:15
[SPEAKER_07]: And I was like all along, it was right there in front of me.
15:19
[SPEAKER_07]: And I wish I would have carved out more space to sort through some of the stuff that I had gone through before ever choosing a partner.
15:28
[SPEAKER_07]: And it would have saved me 20 years of my life.
15:32
[SPEAKER_02]: family, I want to encourage you to go ahead and subscribe, go ahead and subscribe to the channel, leave a comment, make sure you share this with as many people as possible.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're just telling the end and you just kind of like kind of fail on the page, do it to premiere.
15:43
[SPEAKER_02]: If you watch another premiere, my Easter, Chany, author, speaker and your new best for it, come on somebody.
15:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Before my first lady of a church in California.
15:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I know just by looking at you and listening to you, you are already saying like, my safety was if I just do everything right.
16:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do everything right.
16:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And then finally, you're the first lady of a church worship leader on television preachers of L.A. and then you make the decision.
16:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that had to be a wrestle on how many people that you would let down because as pastors, I know you have talked to so many people and talked them off the ledge of being divorced.
16:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And now you're doing the very thing that you told so many people not to do.
16:30
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
16:30
[SPEAKER_02]: How tough was that decision for you?
16:32
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it was so tough.
16:36
[SPEAKER_07]: It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my entire life.
16:45
[SPEAKER_07]: What made it tough was I had wrapped up into this role in this relationship, all of myself worth, who I was, that stage meant everything to me, that's where I got my affirmation, that's where I got being enough.
16:59
[SPEAKER_07]: I had a man that was attractive who chose me, which means, because he chose me on worthy.
17:06
[SPEAKER_07]: So I had all these intangible things connected to this, and I had no idea.
17:17
[SPEAKER_07]: which wasn't as fluid as that.
17:18
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
17:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I was just taking the next right step.
17:21
[SPEAKER_07]: I knew I'm not dealing with this shit no more.
17:25
[SPEAKER_07]: I know that.
17:26
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
17:26
[SPEAKER_07]: We're done.
17:26
[SPEAKER_07]: Like I can't take it anymore.
17:29
[SPEAKER_07]: But I didn't think that the relationship was over.
17:32
[SPEAKER_07]: I thought maybe we can negotiate some type of alternative, like, just take care of yourself and I'll take care of myself.
17:40
[SPEAKER_07]: Like I was at the bare minimum.
17:42
[SPEAKER_07]: Like we could have a family, we can have all of this, maybe in a different way.
17:48
[SPEAKER_07]: So the next right step was I got to cut out things I'm going to die if I stay here.
17:53
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to really like my life will be over.
17:56
[SPEAKER_07]: I will be sick.
17:57
[SPEAKER_07]: I just felt it like I've never felt anything else in my life.
18:00
[SPEAKER_07]: So I was like well maybe we can cut out the church maybe I don't need to work there anymore.
18:04
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe that's too much of pressure because this is the husband who's the head of my life.
18:11
[SPEAKER_07]: It's my boss, because I went full-time in ministry and we work together and built together.
18:16
[SPEAKER_07]: So now my livelihood, now this is the father of my children, too many, too much of my pie was controlled by one person.
18:23
[SPEAKER_07]: And I know, let's fix that.
18:25
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe I don't need, I was just cutting out everything, like trying to find a way to negotiate.
18:29
[SPEAKER_07]: And the next right step and the next right step, and we found out very quickly that that was not going to work.
18:36
[SPEAKER_07]: And I honestly had no other option.
18:39
[SPEAKER_07]: It was either die or leave.
18:43
[SPEAKER_07]: And I thought my life has to be worth more because in church we're teaching you're living sacrifice.
18:49
[SPEAKER_07]: Die to yourself, that stuff is not healthy for people that are not in a healthy situation.
18:54
[SPEAKER_07]: And for me, dying to myself nearly killed me.
18:57
[SPEAKER_02]: What part of the relationship was the most unhealthy?
19:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it communication?
19:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it?
19:04
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to take accountability for me, my inability to set boundaries and know what I need and what I don't want to do.
19:13
[SPEAKER_07]: I did way too much.
19:15
[SPEAKER_07]: I took everything.
19:17
[SPEAKER_07]: I did 100% I was the muscle.
19:20
[SPEAKER_07]: I was the the man behind the Oregon.
19:22
[SPEAKER_07]: I was making it all happen.
19:25
[SPEAKER_07]: I was trying to have sex as often and as wild as can be.
19:29
[SPEAKER_07]: I was just some days I didn't even sleep 24 hours I'd stay up.
19:34
[SPEAKER_07]: And we thought that my issue is a workhorse.
19:36
[SPEAKER_07]: She loves this.
19:37
[SPEAKER_07]: But there was a beautiful, wonderful person deep down inside that wanted to be cared for, that wanted to be seen, that wanted somebody to look and say, you've been working too hard.
19:47
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to let you sit down for a few weeks.
19:50
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
19:50
[SPEAKER_07]: That never happened.
19:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think I made that mistake, too.
19:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Not necessarily on the work part, because I didn't have that type of wife, but I do know, I had never seen anybody with just one person who works to go, I'll get to get the money, to go, do acquisitions and be, I grew up with two extra crops.
20:07
[SPEAKER_02]: My daddy, 92, my mama, 82, they were taught.
20:11
[SPEAKER_02]: They worked as custodians and they did whatever they had to do.
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought we didn't stay in this immaculate house and beautiful, you know, I never was nice.
20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I just seen a whole lot of love and a whole lot of hard work, and I want to go create a whole, another life that could create some time with you to be with the children.
20:27
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to go outside.
20:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You can just live into whatever you want, every time you swipe the credit card, you're just going to go through, but I overlooked the fact that there was so much work going on on the other side.
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: of that door that I walked into every single day.
20:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think I would on my chest as a badge of honor that I'm the man who's preached providing and protecting, but I don't think I did a very good job or protecting her confidence.
20:56
[SPEAKER_02]: and who she was by now valuing what she did and that was my biggest mistake.
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that sometimes men in general or even your former husband may have just overlooked that looked at because he's thinking of siren men's trying to create and take care of everybody else.
21:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you believe he was malicious in his actions or just oversight?
21:17
[SPEAKER_07]: I think we, I think it may be a mixture of both.
21:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't, maybe he was just doing the best he can.
21:22
[SPEAKER_07]: And that's the credit that I give all of us.
21:24
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, we're not taught how to do this.
21:26
[SPEAKER_07]: Nobody sat down and said, this is how you're going to be a great wife or a great husband.
21:29
[SPEAKER_07]: So this mature version of me gives the benefit of the doubt and says, you know what, we all try to figure this out.
21:36
[SPEAKER_07]: Like.
21:37
[SPEAKER_07]: At the end of the day, everybody is here to be a teacher.
21:41
[SPEAKER_07]: And this was just my lesson in life to help me get to where I am.
21:44
[SPEAKER_07]: And I hold a lot of space for honor and respect for all that has happened, because it was necessary.
21:53
[SPEAKER_07]: I do think it's quite possible that he...
21:56
[SPEAKER_07]: was doing the best he could in his own way.
21:59
[SPEAKER_07]: And I needed the affirmation.
22:01
[SPEAKER_07]: That's where I was getting the love.
22:03
[SPEAKER_07]: So the more I did, the more love I received.
22:07
[SPEAKER_07]: So that's how I was getting love.
22:09
[SPEAKER_07]: That's how I was showing love.
22:11
[SPEAKER_07]: How do I got it?
22:13
[SPEAKER_07]: So it did give the illusion that I didn't need anything, because I was always the doer.
22:19
[SPEAKER_07]: But you can't do for 20, 18 years.
22:22
[SPEAKER_07]: And it not.
22:23
[SPEAKER_07]: Somehow, that's something going back down, yeah.
22:26
[SPEAKER_07]: But I was communicating, it's breaking down.
22:30
[SPEAKER_07]: Something has to change.
22:31
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
22:32
[SPEAKER_07]: This is not working.
22:34
[SPEAKER_07]: I had done therapy at that point.
22:36
[SPEAKER_07]: I had understood what was going on.
22:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you go together or you just went on?
22:40
[SPEAKER_07]: I went on my own for five years.
22:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the worst thing you could do.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I went on my own.
22:44
[SPEAKER_07]: I went on my own.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I went on my own, I was like, I see things different.
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's like, you know, I don't say nothing back.
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just like, no, that's your part.
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That's something you got to deal with.
23:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm gonna do with me?
23:03
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
23:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I started to see myself as a codependent.
23:08
[SPEAKER_02]: A person who's codependent on others opinions to be who I thought I needed to be.
23:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
23:12
[SPEAKER_07]: I was definitely codependent, definitely an impact.
23:15
[SPEAKER_07]: Definitely had to do a lot of work in that space.
23:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I believe I believe often times and I say this often that wants to little girls are healed the woman appears and when a little boy is beginning to be healed that man started to appear and I can no longer respond to the little girl in you anymore and then that's when you make a cognitive decision to do something different.
23:44
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a clip that I said, and I don't even know how I found this clip, because this from 2023, where you said this.
23:53
[SPEAKER_07]: I remember walking down the beach.
23:55
[SPEAKER_07]: It was a new port.
23:57
[SPEAKER_07]: It was probably a Monday and the afternoon.
24:00
[SPEAKER_07]: It was a general breeze.
24:02
[SPEAKER_07]: People were riding bikes.
24:04
[SPEAKER_07]: I never forget that day because parking was easy.
24:08
[SPEAKER_07]: My husband and I were walking down the beach.
24:11
[SPEAKER_07]: We're talking about different things.
24:13
[SPEAKER_07]: And I just, out of nowhere, said, I don't know if I see us old together.
24:21
[SPEAKER_07]: And he's like, what do you mean by that?
24:23
[SPEAKER_07]: And I said, I just can't see working and doing and being like I am now.
24:30
[SPEAKER_07]: 30 years from now.
24:31
[SPEAKER_07]: We filed that conversation, but I never forgot that feeling.
24:36
[SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes our relationships are going through transformation, right in front of our eyes, and sometimes our relationships are over.
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You thought they're actually over.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: The woman said we walking on the beach and she said I just can't I don't really see us 30 years from now Do you realize what that dear to a man?
25:04
[SPEAKER_07]: I I'm listening back like did I say that you said that and then the you said it in real life Because that's not nothing that you a fabric fabric Kate because I'm sure they told y'all Pump in them comment they sure did they let me have it
25:19
[SPEAKER_07]: the men were they were just see you got it you always dealing with emotion.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there was something much deeper going on so it was but how long was that before?
25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So did did you make the decision to say hey I'm gonna go to the court so was he just like I'm done with this?
25:36
[SPEAKER_07]: We were actually talking, we actually had a very good friendship.
25:40
[SPEAKER_07]: So we had the conversation.
25:42
[SPEAKER_07]: We both understood that it was not going to work.
25:45
[SPEAKER_07]: We got a mediator.
25:48
[SPEAKER_07]: We both agreed to go to mediation.
25:50
[SPEAKER_07]: So at every step of the road, we were seemingly in sync with what needed to happen.
25:57
[SPEAKER_07]: So the reason why I took the responsibility that it was my decision
26:07
[SPEAKER_07]: I could have stayed married.
26:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: After media.
26:11
[SPEAKER_07]: I could have stayed married.
26:13
[SPEAKER_07]: The way the marriage had always existed.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
26:17
[SPEAKER_02]: What had just been for optics?
26:19
[SPEAKER_07]: It would have been for optics.
26:20
[SPEAKER_07]: I would have been cheating.
26:21
[SPEAKER_07]: I would have had to go find something somewhere else.
26:23
[SPEAKER_07]: I just, I couldn't no longer do it.
26:25
[SPEAKER_07]: It would have been bad.
26:27
[SPEAKER_07]: So in that way, he was willing to keep it the way it was.
26:32
[SPEAKER_07]: I just wasn't.
26:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the worst is not good for business, especially ministry business.
26:36
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I was like, oh, no, I'm so we agreed that it was over.
26:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so how long was that conversation at the beach to the moment that you guys started mediation?
26:48
[SPEAKER_07]: I would probably say it could have been two years, a year.
26:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Dary!
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: God, I believe.
26:59
[SPEAKER_02]: At least.
27:02
[SPEAKER_02]: In the clip, you said, like, I don't, you know, I don't see this 30 years, like what was, was there of response?
27:11
[SPEAKER_07]: He was just more like, what do you mean by that?
27:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, because the thing about illusions is we believe them.
27:19
[SPEAKER_07]: So I think we both thought, well, we have this perfect life, right?
27:22
[SPEAKER_07]: Aren't we perfect?
27:23
[SPEAKER_07]: We have the kids and that we go on vacations and like, we had, we built a beautiful life from the outside looking in.
27:31
[SPEAKER_07]: But for me, I just,
27:34
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed to be loved.
27:36
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed to be cared for in a deeper way.
27:39
[SPEAKER_07]: And I had been a robot, that meant for me, emotionally cut off and just doing all the functions, showing up to church, doing all the things, smiling.
27:50
[SPEAKER_07]: I didn't feel like a fraud because I enjoyed my life to a certain extent.
27:55
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, I wasn't faking in what I was doing.
27:57
[SPEAKER_07]: I just wasn't my full authentic self.
28:00
[SPEAKER_07]: And for 14 years, I just went through the motions and then I woke up and that happened through therapy that happened through graduate school and I started to realize I'm a human, I need things.
28:15
[SPEAKER_07]: I want things.
28:17
[SPEAKER_07]: And I had never had that, I started saying, I need to be loved.
28:23
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm worthy of that.
28:25
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's not about what I give.
28:27
[SPEAKER_07]: It's about me just being a human.
28:29
[SPEAKER_07]: If I can never walk talk, seeing, speak anything, what I'd be loved in this relationship.
28:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So you said you needed to be loved, and this without a doubt that, you know, you guys were in love.
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That I wasn't going to be loved correctly for my future journey.
28:50
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed there to be loved with action.
28:52
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed there to be consideration.
28:54
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed to be seen as a person.
28:57
[SPEAKER_07]: I needed somebody to notice when life was hard and do something about it.
29:03
[SPEAKER_02]: What does do something about it?
29:05
[SPEAKER_07]: If you are coming up the stairs with 1,000 bags in your hand, I'm gonna take half of those bags.
29:12
[SPEAKER_07]: That's a very simple way of thinking about it.
29:15
[SPEAKER_07]: That means if I have the re-children and one has to go to the doctors with special need,
29:21
[SPEAKER_07]: that maybe I can leave the two with you and take the one to the doctor.
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Got it.
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Just, just, okay.
29:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to make sure one, like, you know, I'd need to be low.
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I want to go to Paris on the Tuesday.
29:36
[SPEAKER_07]: Let me tell you, let me tell you about my issue.
29:39
[SPEAKER_07]: When I got to, when I got to my mature self, I'm gonna tell you how I wanna be loved.
29:46
[SPEAKER_07]: I gave examples.
29:49
[SPEAKER_07]: with an outline.
29:51
[SPEAKER_06]: I could see that.
29:51
[SPEAKER_07]: No mystery.
29:52
[SPEAKER_07]: No mystery about it.
29:54
[SPEAKER_07]: Like purely like, here's where I think I could use help and support.
29:59
[SPEAKER_07]: Here's where I feel like I can be loved more.
30:01
[SPEAKER_07]: The more I learned about me, the more I grew to know what I wanted and needed.
30:06
[SPEAKER_07]: I could communicate it.
30:08
[SPEAKER_07]: So it wasn't a mystery.
30:09
[SPEAKER_07]: It wasn't like, just love me better and I just need, I was more, I flowed in the masculine.
30:16
[SPEAKER_07]: So I thought like a man, I felt like a man.
30:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I was making decisions, I was firing people, I was hiring people, I flowed in the masculine.
30:27
[SPEAKER_07]: I was not in my feelings like that for a long time.
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I said love, float in the masculine case.
30:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Floed.
30:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You float in the masculine.
30:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
30:38
[SPEAKER_02]: You could just.
30:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in the masculine.
30:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I listened to you.
30:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you bring that behavior home?
30:45
[SPEAKER_07]: In some ways, yes, yes, in my environment, because I was doing all these things, I was making decisions, I was running the finances, I was running life, I was making the calls on a lot of things.
31:01
[SPEAKER_07]: And though he was there and he also had the power in the authority, I would just tee up the balls, right?
31:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I would put this where we're doing it.
31:11
[SPEAKER_07]: Here are three options.
31:13
[SPEAKER_07]: which house do we want this offers going for this like I would lay out everything and say you make the choice honey.
31:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So why's the flowing and masculine and not just being a help me?
31:24
[SPEAKER_07]: Because the help me I think is adding value in a very gentle nurturing loving way and the feminine doesn't always have to take responsibility.
31:37
[SPEAKER_07]: So when I would make decisions, I would also be accountable for what would wrong.
31:42
[SPEAKER_07]: And for me, it felt like the burden was on my shoulders.
31:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
31:47
[SPEAKER_07]: So when I'm in my feminine, I could come alongside and say, honey, here's the same research.
31:52
[SPEAKER_07]: But I know it's on you to make the decision.
31:54
[SPEAKER_07]: It's on you to own whatever the outcome is.
31:57
[SPEAKER_07]: It's on you to fix whatever happens because of that decision.
32:01
[SPEAKER_07]: And I don't have to wear that.
32:03
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
32:05
[SPEAKER_07]: all parts of it, but I allowed you to make the choice because you're the man.
32:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Got it.
32:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Without you carrying the burden of being the man.
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, so I'm not being a stick to that.
32:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually, I love the, I actually, I actually want to know because, you know, I just believe, because I see so many men and women who are together, especially when you're working with creatives, leaders, pastors, people who have to lead people from a public stage, like a lot of the minutia in the household is really done by the woman.
32:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Like she may have to call the bill people or talk to a accountant and just do that.
32:46
[SPEAKER_07]: I love keeping house, I love taking care of my family, I love cooking, cleaning, all those traditional things.
32:52
[SPEAKER_07]: That was fine, but we worked together.
32:54
[SPEAKER_07]: And so in work, I would get the staff together and I would come up with vision and help and then we would talk and, like, so the dynamics may be at work, overflowed into the house.
33:06
[SPEAKER_07]: And it worked for over a decade.
33:07
[SPEAKER_07]: It worked quite well.
33:08
[SPEAKER_07]: It brought us into new opportunities.
33:11
[SPEAKER_07]: It helped us advance in our careers, in our ministry.
33:15
[SPEAKER_07]: We had a great ride, it just, it wasn't sustainable for life.
33:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So after ten years, how will one transition to a different type of behavior?
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I believe that change don't come in the moment it comes over time.
33:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So how does one who has a system that's seemingly working?
33:32
[SPEAKER_02]: God's breathing on it because it's successful in the earth.
33:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, it's just, it's weighty on one person.
33:38
[SPEAKER_02]: probably weighty on the other person too, but not being able to really get on the level playing for you.
33:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I like to say that the ground is level with the cross, but it's not always level in the home.
33:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So how could one change the trajectory of the family to say some of this has to go to you?
33:55
[SPEAKER_02]: How can somebody do that in a healthy manner?
33:57
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think as long as there are two people that are willing to grow, and two people that are committed to being the best versions of themselves is quite possible.
34:05
[SPEAKER_07]: I expect it.
34:07
[SPEAKER_07]: I want you to grow.
34:07
[SPEAKER_07]: I want you to change.
34:08
[SPEAKER_07]: And it comes from sitting down and having healthy conversation.
34:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Hey, honey, I know for the past 10 years, I have traditionally carried these different roles.
34:18
[SPEAKER_07]: I've paid the bills.
34:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I've done this.
34:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I've done that.
34:20
[SPEAKER_07]: I've led in this way.
34:21
[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm feeling that there is a shift.
34:23
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm evolving as a person.
34:25
[SPEAKER_07]: And in this next season of life, here's where I want to add the most value.
34:30
[SPEAKER_07]: What are your thoughts about that?
34:32
[SPEAKER_07]: How can we sit and come up with a way that also supports you, but makes me feel empowered in the live in what I'm doing?
34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there she goes.
34:41
[SPEAKER_02]: She won't have changed, not just playing.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would just wait.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how you go.
34:46
[SPEAKER_07]: Here's what you're doing that I love.
34:48
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
34:49
[SPEAKER_07]: Here's what I'm coming up with.
34:50
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm coming up with an ego.
34:51
[SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.
34:51
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
34:52
[SPEAKER_07]: Getting wind bees with honey.
34:54
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
34:55
[SPEAKER_07]: And see how we can negotiate a shift.
34:58
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not asking for my partner to do what is impossible for them.
35:03
[SPEAKER_07]: But maybe they say, well, I'm going to take a couple extra gigs to pay for that nanny.
35:08
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to do this to, you don't have to do it.
35:11
[SPEAKER_07]: But there's some shifts that need to happen.
35:13
[SPEAKER_07]: How am I going to feel loved?
35:16
[SPEAKER_07]: in ways that maybe you can't provide.
35:18
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
35:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe I need to have a weekend away by myself.
35:22
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe I need to increase so my spot time.
35:25
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe I need you to help pay for therapy so that I can heal some of my childhood wounds.
35:29
[SPEAKER_07]: So I don't put the responsibility on you to take care of me in ways I need to take care of myself.
35:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That's responsible.
35:35
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, I'm all about the solution in the loving thoughtful way, and if two people have the minds to solve a problem together, you can get far better and go far greater further than you can go by arguing, by getting in, it's your fault or my fault.
35:52
[SPEAKER_07]: That's why a lot of times I talk about this, I really do try to take all the responsibility that I can.
35:57
[SPEAKER_07]: to do.
35:58
[SPEAKER_07]: It's my problem that I didn't love myself enough to create the boundaries that I needed.
36:03
[SPEAKER_07]: It's my fault for agreeing to do stuff I didn't want to do.
36:06
[SPEAKER_07]: It's my fault.
36:08
[SPEAKER_07]: That's not his problem.
36:10
[SPEAKER_07]: I set up the marriage to do things a certain way.
36:14
[SPEAKER_07]: I changed.
36:16
[SPEAKER_07]: That's really not his problem.
36:18
[SPEAKER_07]: But I've got to own that because of this evolution because this cannot play out in this relationship that I've got to go and do something else.
36:27
[SPEAKER_02]: How many other first ladies have reached out to you kind of privately to see how I worked out for you?
36:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Plenty, plenty, more than I would love because it's crushing for the pastor's wife to go through divorce.
36:43
[SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely unbearable.
36:45
[SPEAKER_07]: It's almost worse than you might as well stay married.
36:49
[SPEAKER_07]: It's worse for a season to go through that.
36:54
[SPEAKER_07]: The way it works in our society, the way it works in the religious structure, you are as a pastor's wife, praise the door, platformed, celebrated on, and when you're divorced, you are absolutely nothing.
37:10
[SPEAKER_07]: You mean nothing.
37:11
[SPEAKER_07]: You have no place.
37:13
[SPEAKER_07]: You're free to go about your life.
37:15
[SPEAKER_07]: And people will tell you, I love you.
37:18
[SPEAKER_07]: But in actuality, there is no, there is very little healthy, love experience for the pastor's wife after divorce.
37:29
[SPEAKER_07]: Even after a husband dies.
37:33
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's advantages.
37:35
[SPEAKER_07]: I had a birthday for 22 years in ministry and somebody thought of me with the moment I got divorced, no one thought of me.
37:44
[SPEAKER_07]: Not the people that I was there for.
37:47
[SPEAKER_07]: So pastors why I've reached out to say, is it really this crushing?
37:53
[SPEAKER_07]: And I have to say, yeah, it is, and it's also okay.
37:58
[SPEAKER_07]: Because if you're doing your work, you understand that love was beautiful and necessary for what it was, but it doesn't substitute for self love.
38:08
[SPEAKER_07]: And what I was expecting externally, I had to give to myself.
38:13
[SPEAKER_02]: How did that affect your opinion of the religious structure and your relationship with God or those two different things?
38:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I had a lot of anger toward that, because I showed up for people.
38:27
[SPEAKER_07]: When people went through divorce, I would tell them, I haven't seen your church for six months.
38:32
[SPEAKER_07]: Where you been at?
38:33
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I'm going through a, you better come to church and use it with me.
38:38
[SPEAKER_07]: Sit with me every Sunday and nobody gonna say nothing to you just because you're in this season of life So I showed love.
38:45
[SPEAKER_07]: I paid mortgages.
38:46
[SPEAKER_07]: I help people when they were going through divorce husband locked up all the money I don't have anything.
38:51
[SPEAKER_07]: I was sending them paypiles.
38:52
[SPEAKER_07]: I was sending them money out of my pure heart I didn't even tell anybody So when I went through a divorce I had an expectation that I would add minimum be handled the way I handled other people
39:03
[SPEAKER_07]: And minimum, read what you saw.
39:06
[SPEAKER_07]: And when I tell you strangers to carry me, strangers thought of me, it changed my perspective of God.
39:12
[SPEAKER_07]: It changed how I felt about religious structures.
39:17
[SPEAKER_07]: I thought this is not okay.
39:21
[SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
39:21
[SPEAKER_07]: How can I be useful for all of these beautiful things for decades of my life?
39:28
[SPEAKER_07]: I have one shift,
39:30
[SPEAKER_07]: And I am no longer worthy that I'm cancel from engagements.
39:34
[SPEAKER_07]: People have built with for 20, 30 years gone.
39:38
[SPEAKER_07]: Done.
39:39
[SPEAKER_07]: No conversation.
39:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Friendships that I had.
39:43
[SPEAKER_07]: Mutuals.
39:44
[SPEAKER_07]: Run off in the sun set with my ex-husband who has the power.
39:49
[SPEAKER_07]: It's usually the power differential.
39:51
[SPEAKER_07]: Whoever has the most power gets the most love.
39:54
[SPEAKER_07]: and whoever people think doesn't have much power, they get nothing.
40:00
[SPEAKER_07]: And the pastor's wives have found such comfort in saying, you can go through all it at and tend to down be who you are.
40:09
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's okay.
40:11
[SPEAKER_07]: And I am tremendously blessed because I moved through that.
40:14
[SPEAKER_07]: Now I have a profound love for the people that I've served because it was a gift to me.
40:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I got to spend 20 years of my life helping people.
40:23
[SPEAKER_07]: I can't be angry about that for any reason.
40:26
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I put myself in their shoes.
40:29
[SPEAKER_07]: What would I do when your pastor and wife God divorced Julie Votchurch?
40:33
[SPEAKER_07]: What am I expecting to them?
40:36
[SPEAKER_07]: So did I build enough of a relationship with them for them to support me on the other side?
40:42
[SPEAKER_07]: That role was conditional.
40:45
[SPEAKER_07]: I was your pastor's wife.
40:47
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm no longer your pastor's wife.
40:49
[SPEAKER_07]: So what is our relationship now?
40:52
[SPEAKER_07]: So I help walk people through and try to model if I die tomorrow.
40:56
[SPEAKER_07]: I know I left as much of a blueprint that you can go through hard things.
41:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, as we kind of land the plane, you're also a mother and you have three children.
41:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would say being adopted never meeting anybody in my biological family until 2020.
41:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I just always desired children and I just wanted it to be the right way.
41:34
[SPEAKER_02]: As I look back at it, if I can be honest, anybody could have been in that seat because I just knew what I wanted.
41:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a vision.
41:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted somebody safe so I can take care of them and have children.
41:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do love those children correctly to the best of my ability.
41:57
[SPEAKER_02]: As a mother, seeing them go through these transitions and having to tell them that that's not a reflection of God just because those people are so cruel to us and it sees.
42:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what was that light for you as a mother navigating through these very unbearable waters?
42:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, I tried to be honest and I said, my kids relationship with church and with God is not mine.
42:22
[SPEAKER_07]: My relationship with their dad is different than their relationship with their dad.
42:26
[SPEAKER_07]: I encourage them to go to church.
42:28
[SPEAKER_07]: We love the people there.
42:30
[SPEAKER_07]: They've been so good to us and our family.
42:33
[SPEAKER_07]: So I think I led with honesty and transparency and I separated myself from the circumstance.
42:42
[SPEAKER_07]: When they brought up stuff to me, we just called it like it was, but because their dad is still leading in pasturing, it's a world that they go into whenever they want to, you know, they can be at church and feel that love.
42:55
[SPEAKER_07]: And so to them, it was just like, Mom is just not here.
42:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
42:58
[SPEAKER_07]: Why is mom not here and I think we we navigated it the best we could.
43:04
[SPEAKER_07]: I love my kids Okay, like my kids.
43:08
[SPEAKER_07]: I love them and good stuff.
43:10
[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm willing to do whatever it takes Even if it's letting them go have their experience To protect them to show them that love So we did the best we could it's tough It took some time they say mom come to church
43:29
[SPEAKER_07]: And I will go, I will go with them a few times.
43:33
[SPEAKER_07]: If my son was doing something on stage, I'd go and support him.
43:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And was it like life camera action when you would chip chip, does she, oh my gosh, see?
43:41
[SPEAKER_02]: A little bit, if you were like, that's the hard part.
43:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause it's like when everybody knows your business and you walk in, I'm just like,
43:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like Jesus when they said, he could hear your thoughts.
43:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, God, this is so weird.
43:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do my best to have the best smile.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just believe kindness is always going to prevail, stronger than evil and craziness and foolishness.
44:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And people who get it opportunity to see my character versus Westman see it.
44:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm thankful that you took the time to even go into an environment where the whisper is.
44:11
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
44:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Because you don't authenticity has a higher frequency than love.
44:17
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
44:17
[SPEAKER_07]: So being my authentic self tentos down by myself, like doing my work in therapy, doing my work in sound vass, and I did all I did, you name it, I did it.
44:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he went back to school after the reality show.
44:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.
44:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:35
[SPEAKER_07]: So I processed all the messy stuff where I needed to process it and showing up that was not the space to be angry at anybody and I started to humanize all of us in the process and I can speak to it.
45:01
[SPEAKER_02]: because you'd like to tell in a lie.
45:03
[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm going to be 100 with you.
45:06
[SPEAKER_07]: I ain't even, I ain't even scratch your surface.
45:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
45:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to get even real.
45:13
[SPEAKER_07]: But now I don't have to.
45:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:16
[SPEAKER_07]: What is the, what's the win?
45:20
[SPEAKER_07]: The win is my isha found who she was.
45:22
[SPEAKER_07]: The win is my isha survived.
45:25
[SPEAKER_07]: The hardest thing, my isha moved on with her life.
45:28
[SPEAKER_07]: My isha found that she doesn't need anything externally to be happy.
45:33
[SPEAKER_07]: The win is I get to wake up in my skin every day.
45:35
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't need to expose anybody, I don't need to, I don't need justice.
45:40
[SPEAKER_07]: The gift is God has sustained me.
45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't let LBC come out though.
45:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and I mean, I see a man with a long beach crew.
45:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Just come out and I'm like, I'm like, well, okay, maybe hit like this right here.
45:54
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to act like I at some point in the journey.
45:57
[SPEAKER_07]: I didn't want to pull up.
45:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:00
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, I got some real.
46:02
[SPEAKER_07]: I got some killers in my family.
46:04
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
46:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and your dad, too.
46:06
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, at some point, I did feel like that church like that.
46:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Some need to be done about this like,
46:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I want you to do this and I've only done this one other time out of 40 episodes only personally had the opportunity to do the clothes was been my pastor Bishop.
46:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Bronner.
46:26
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just know, from just watching you and the experiences that you had, that maybe there's something burning on the inside of you for somebody on the other side of that camera, who may be in the most unbearable, unthinkable moment.
46:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would like for you to just speak to that little camera right there and just speak to the people whatever's on your heart because I believe that what you have endured,
46:51
[SPEAKER_02]: is definitely valuable, and we value you here to for you to come in and y'all fool yourself, keep it 100, brought that LBC.
47:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she even says, too, then she gave me one time.
47:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I did, I cast now.
47:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I thought she did.
47:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I just see this, she did.
47:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Y'all beeped that one out because my kids told me stuff.
47:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But speak to the people real quick.
47:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, if you are watching today, I think it's divine.
47:17
[SPEAKER_07]: And I have been through some of the most hurtful heart-breaking things in my life.
47:23
[SPEAKER_07]: I promise you, you will make it.
47:27
[SPEAKER_07]: If I am here, look at me, I'm here in my right mind.
47:32
[SPEAKER_07]: It's just a testament for what God can do for you, because you went through a divorce, because you were unfaithful, because you lost your job, whatever it is, everything we experience in this life is a teacher.
47:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Learn the lesson, move forward, hold your head up high, there's life on the other side.
47:50
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm living proof.
47:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Make sure that you subscribe to this channel, make sure you log on to help you more.com for anybody who's going through, you know, need some relationship help find natural help, whatever it is going to help you more.com will come a part of that community and, um, man, I'm so grateful.
48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so grateful for the opportunity to sit down with somebody who's on the other side of healing.
48:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it's two different things that's going on here.
48:18
[SPEAKER_02]: For some of us who've been in a relationship, you still got that scab.
48:23
[SPEAKER_02]: A scab is the start of healing.
48:26
[SPEAKER_02]: If you hit the wrong thing, that thing hurt, you're gonna yell, meaning that if somebody say the wrong thing, baby, you're gonna go back to what you used to be.
48:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you also have these people who have scars.
48:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Now this scar right here, it came with somebody stole something from me and they ran
48:42
[SPEAKER_02]: pure adrenaline I ran today house and they had one of them little doors and I just boom my punch did and all the glass came down and I scratched all my hand and I still have a scar and I ain't gonna never do that again I promise you that you running the house I'm calling the police you hear me I'll let you but the scar you could slap this as much as you want it just doesn't hurt anymore what I seen today was a woman who didn't have a scar she just now has a scar
49:12
[SPEAKER_02]: She can remember what happened, but it just don't hurt anymore.
49:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe this is an opportunity for you to heal.
49:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll though you'll have a scar.
49:22
[SPEAKER_02]: That scar will only bring character.
49:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to remind you.
49:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I ain't never doing that again.
49:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you'll be different.
49:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget to love yourself.
49:32
[SPEAKER_02]: More.
49:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Flat out.
49:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Love you more, love you more, love you more.