Latest / San Joaquin Sound / Willie Cantu Part 1: From Corpus Christi's Youngest Working Drummer to Buck Owens Buckaroo

Transcript

Willie Cantu Part 1: From Corpus Christi's Youngest Working Drummer to Buck Owens Buckaroo · San Joaquin Sound

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Back here on the drums. Okay, Willie. This young
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man comes from the great state of Texas. Will
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you give a nice hand for wonderful Willie Cantu.
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This is the San Joaquin Sound Podcast. the podcast
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about music in Bakersfield and the surrounding
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San Joaquin Valley. I'm your host, AJ Rodriguez.
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This is part one in a series of three episodes.
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They were all recorded over the past couple months
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over the phone with Willie Cantu, the drummer
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in Buck Owens and the Buckaroos' classic lineup
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in the 1960s. Part one covers his time growing
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up in Corpus Christi, Texas. and eventually joining
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the Buckaroos and some of his first experiences
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as he moved to Bakersfield. Part two covers his
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time with Buck Owens and the Buckaroos, touring
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the world and recording hit after hit. Part three
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covers his exit from the band and his subsequent
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journey in studying a bunch of other types of
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music, like Ghanaian drumming and Scottish pipe
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band drumming, and even opening for Alice Cooper.
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So you were born in Corpus Christi, Texas in
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May of 1946? That's correct. This is a special
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interview for me to even talk to you right now
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because my grandpa, he grew up in Kingsville,
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Texas. Okay. Which wasn't too far, and so did
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my grandma. My grandma and grandpa Rodriguez,
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they're both passed away now, but my grandpa
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loved Buck Owens. And my grandparents grew up
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in Texas. He would be so happy that I was talking
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to you. I just feel honored to be speaking with
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you, you know? It's cool. Well, thank you. It's
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my pleasure talking to you. What was it like
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growing up in Texas for you? Well, I didn't know
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anything else. What are your first memories of
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music? The parades that happened once a year
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in, I guess, the month of May, I believe. There's
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a celebration called Buccaneer Days. And supposedly,
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back in the 1800s, The pirates used to land in
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Corpus quite often. I think Galveston, further
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north along the coast there, was also a pirate
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area. Because of that celebration, it used to
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be like a whole week of festivities. Like a carnival
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was the big thing. Through the school system,
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mainly for music, like the marching bands would
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come to Corpus. from different parts of the state
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to compete in the Buccaneer Days festivities.
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And they would compete as concert bands. Pretty
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well, the competition was held at the Junior
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College, which was in Corpus. Del Mar Junior
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College it was. I just had a flash of Buccaneer
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Days and sitting on the street side, watching
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the bands go by and just listening to that. thunderous
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sound of marching snare drums that I love so
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dearly. I treasure those days because I can still
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relive the way I felt, the way the drums and
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the music made me feel, you know, in the night,
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you know, and the excitement of band after band
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and, you know, the parades and stuff. But I was
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going to say also, I told you about the junior
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high school band. being Winseal Junior High School
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buckaroos. So I was a buckaroo then, and then
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I became a buccaneer. And then I became a Buck
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Owens buckaroo. Three times a buck. I just got
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a kick out of that, and my friends can't believe
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that little story. But that actually happened
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to me, you know. Who else can say that? You're
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definitely the only one. So that's what I remember
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the most is going as a boy. My parents used to
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take, we would go watch the parade. And the most
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exciting thing for me was to hear the drum cadence
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of each of the marching bands marching by, you
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know, and the music of the marching band. That's
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the very first thing that I recall. And so, but
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that was, I got to play in the parade, you know.
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when I was in junior high school and in high
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school, that was my biggest thrill was playing
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in the marching band. And so that's how that
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started. My dad loved music and he loved to dance.
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So on Leopard Street, there above the stores
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that were lined up, you know, there was also
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an upper level of the businesses. And there was
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one place called La Terraza. They used to have,
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it was like a big dance hall. And my dad used
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to frequent that. Not every weekend, but from
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time to time. My mom did not dance. She wouldn't
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dance. She didn't like it. But we would all go
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and watch dad dance. My dad grew up in Mexico.
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He's actually from the valley. He's the only
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one in his family of 12 that actually... was
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born in the States, but he grew up in Mexico.
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My mom was Mexican as well, but she was born
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in Texas. And so whatever music they played on
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the radio, and it was usually Tejano music. That's
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what I grew up listening to. And also when we'd
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go to the theater to see Mexican movies, my dad
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and I mainly, it was all mariachi. You know,
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the movies were pretty well, pretty stereotyped,
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and they all had the same kind of thing where
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the main actor would sing in a bar room while
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he was getting drunk, you know. Yeah. And there
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was usually a mariachi backing him up, you know.
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So that's the sound that I grew up with. Say,
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for example, over at one of my aunts, she had
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the radio going on all the time, and then I heard
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a different type of music, which is a Tejano,
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you know, a conjunto. I don't know if you know
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what a conjunto is. No, I don't. Okay, well,
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it consisted of a bass guitar, which was called
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a bajo sexto, and a rhythm guitar or an accordion,
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okay? and a drummer that just had like a bass
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drum and a snare drum you know yeah no none of
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the other stuff that other musics required and
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so you a lot of times they're like trio or quartet
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uh and they played texas style mexican music
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you know i don't know if that would be considered
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norteño music but uh That style had been around
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from the early 1900s, I understand. And the accordion,
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which was actually a German instrument, there
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were a lot of German in Central Texas, so that
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became adopted into the Kehano music. I used
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to watch the Conjunto bands play, and I always
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felt, in my mind, that I loved it so much that
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I thought that I could just go up, sit at the
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drums, and play what the drummer was doing, even
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though I had no clue. But it just seemed like
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a natural thing for me that I felt I could do.
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Also, one of my aunts, one of my mom's older
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sisters, also used to kind of take care of me
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and my sister, just me and my sister. She's five
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years younger than me. We would go stay with
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her in the afternoon sometimes. And so she always
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had Tejano music on the radio while she was like
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ironing or cooking or doing her chores. She loved
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to listen to Tejano music. And so therefore I
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got exposed there. But also I remember hearing
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a lot of Tejano music with the saxophone. as
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the lead voice, not just the accordion. And so
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that was another influence, that sound. That's
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what I was, that's what I grew up listening to
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until we got a television and Ed Sullivan show
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that exposed me to other musics. And that's where
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I first heard Louis Armstrong. from New Orleans.
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So that kind of started the seed, you know, on
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listening to jazz. And then in junior high school,
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when I was in the marching band and concert band,
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a lot of the other kids that were my age group
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in the eighth grade and ninth grade, some of
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them listened to jazz. And that became my main
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inspiration for wanting to learn to play the
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drum set. And I was trying to teach myself and
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then discovered a teacher at one of the... the
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school dances. This particular drummer did church
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work and trying to recruit young kids to come
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for catechism. So this man, his name was Albert
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Garcia Jr., show up with my dad up in my bedroom
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where I was practicing with a makeshift drum
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set. And he heard me play and he told me he was
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taught drums. And so he invited me to start learning
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from him, you know, take drum lessons. And so
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I did that once a week. I'd walk to his home,
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which is quite a few, maybe a couple of miles
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away or so. And that's how I started actually
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learning. drum set rhythms to all the popular
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rhythms at that particular time, either in Tejano
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music or for playing like music that you would
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play at a country club, you know. Yeah. Like
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playing waltzes and foxtrots and swing beats
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and society music. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Tuxedo
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music. So my teacher kind of taught me all the
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various dance rhythms that he knew on the drum
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set. And after a couple of years, two, maybe
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three years, you know, I started going to some
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of the jobs with him and then sit and listen
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to him play with his band. And then he'd let
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me sit in on the last song. And that's how I
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started playing within that, you know, with a
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small group like that. And at the same time,
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like in junior high school, maybe in ninth grade,
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some of us in the marching band, concert band,
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decided to kind of form our own little band.
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And it was more jazzy, you know, the records
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that I'd heard. that some of my friends had were
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more like Benny Goodman and Gene Krupa. You know
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who Gene Krupa was? Yeah, I think so. Okay. He
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was a big band drummer, and actually the most,
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you've heard of Buddy Rich, right? Mm -hmm. Okay.
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Well, he was older generation than Buddy Rich,
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and this is in the late 30s. He popularized drums
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and the drum solo. while he was with the Benny
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Goodman Band. There was one concert that they
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played in Carnegie Hall that just really caused
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a lot of attention to Benny Goodman's band and
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also to Gene because of his drum solo. Wow, that's
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cool. What was good about that is that years
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later, when I was with Buck and we played Carnegie
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Hall, I played on that same stage as Gene Krupa.
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And I was just totally elated by that, the fact
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that there I was, and I was only 17 years old
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and already playing Carnegie Hall, you know.
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Yeah. So that was, that really meant a lot to
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me. And it was funny, my band director, junior
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high school band director used to say, like,
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he used to encourage us to practice as much as
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we could and become the best that we could, you
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know? Yeah. And he said, he used to make this
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remark about, once you've played Carnegie Hall,
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you know you've made it the big time. And I remember
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thinking that. I was saying, I'm only 17, and
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I'm playing in this place where great musicians
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have played, master musicians. I said, this can't
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be it for me. I mean, I'm playing here. And then
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once I did, I said, this can't be all there is
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to life. And years later, whenever I'd go home,
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I'd get together and visit with my... that particular
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band director, I told him, I said, you know,
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I always remembered this when I was at Carnegie
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Hall and you saying that if you play at Carnegie
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Hall, you know, you're at the top of the heap
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and, you know, you can't go any higher. So I
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said, well, what happens now? But so he got a
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big kick out of that because I think that was
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a rare case that one of his students, I doubt
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that any of the other students. ever played Carnegie
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Hall that I ever heard of. Yeah, probably not.
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I really liked, I saw in an interview that you
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did that you talked about your band director
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having a big giant sign behind him that said
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Think. And I really thought that was awesome.
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Yeah, I always remembered that. And well, to
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this day, I tell my students that if they can't
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remember to practice every day, just put a sign
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up. you know, to think, think, to practice. That
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was a big encouragement because, you know, there
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was no getting away from it. If you're in band
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class, you're facing the, you know, the band
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director, which is at the center of the stage
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on a podium, and behind him is this big sign
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that says, think, day and night is there, you
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know. So it was a great idea. Yeah. At this time,
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I also researched and you were doing barefoot
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shoe shining, right? And you were exploring the
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whole city. You were never afraid of, you'd never
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stayed in one place. You love to explore and
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you did that throughout your life. Exactly. You
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know, it was just in me and the thing, not only
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just me, but my friends. When we had time off,
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especially in the weekends, we walked everywhere.
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We didn't know about taking the bus or anything
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like this. Plus, it cost money. And I had no
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money, you know, until I started working, shining
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shoes. And I ended up, I built my own little
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shoeshine box with a foot platform and slowly
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started. collecting waxes and shoe polishes and
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brushes and what have you. And off I went, you
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know, probably in the eighth grade. And it's
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very hot down there. And so I used to walk barefoot.
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Yeah. You know, on the hot sidewalk. And the
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dirt there is all more like sand. So it was pretty
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hot, but still it didn't matter, you know. You
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just get used to it and you just walk anywhere
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you need to get. So either I'd do it by myself
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or with another friend or two, and we'd decide
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just to go exploring. It never stopped me from
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going anywhere that I wanted to go. I would just
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go and be back home for supper. And my parents
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would never know where I'd been. But we never
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got into any kind of shenanigans. Everything
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was cool. With some of the money that you were
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earning, you started buying jazz records like
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Ornette Coleman and Cattleball Adderley and J
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.J. Johnson's Blue Trombone, right? You start
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building up this collection. Are you trying to
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copy it? Are you playing along to the records?
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No, no. I was just listening, absorbing. Mainly
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enjoying and trying to understand conceptually
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how different that music was from the music that
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I grew up listening to and also the music that
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I played in the marching band. I was trying to
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find the thread that held all those styles together.
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It was all music, but it was all different. And
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trying to understand how... how anyone would
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come up with such ideas, you know, and how do
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I do it? And I realized that through listening
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and imitation is one of the ways, unless, because
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I had nobody to teach me how to play jazz. I
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mean, I was doing this before my teacher came
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along. I was already listening to Max Roach and
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trying to figure out. After Gene Krupa, it was
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Max Roach, which is a big jump from the swing
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era to the bebop and modern style of modern jazz,
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of drumming. And trying to understand the evolution
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of the music, mainly more than any other music,
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the evolution of jazz. You know, how you could
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have, say, people like Louis Armstrong. who was
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from New Orleans, and he had been playing jazz
19:44
since the early 1900s. And then Howard went from
19:48
that to the Benny Goodman, to the swing era,
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and then it progressed into the bebop era through
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Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie in the late
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40s and through the 50s, all the next generation
20:02
of beboppers, and the evolution of jazz through
20:06
that into the 60s. like Miles Davis and John
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Coltrane and Cannonball Adderley. I was trying
20:13
to figure out how it could sound so different
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conceptually, you know? Yeah. So it became a
20:21
study, you know, at the same time as enjoyment,
20:24
trying to develop an understanding. The main
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thing, what it was doing for me, was appreciating
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a different sound, the sound of jazz, and also
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training my ear. to accept new different sounds
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and ways of playing. That's where conception
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comes in, you know, in terms of how you interpret
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the music, which is rhythmically, that was the
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big advancement, was rhythm and harmony, harmonically,
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the way tunes were phrased, which was different.
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And the drumming style was there all along in
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terms of stompy swing era type of playing. like
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Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich played, into a more
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flowing, more legato rather than staccato type
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of swing. And so all of this, you know, I was
21:20
trying to analyze this and understand what the
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evolution of the music was. Yeah. be able to
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recognize, I mean, I could tell there was a difference
21:31
between Louis Armstrong and Dizzy Gillespie and
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Miles Davis, you know, it's real plain to hear,
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but, and understanding what was taking place
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musically, notation -wise, rhythmically, you
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know, these were challenges, and it took a long
21:51
time, you know. But the main thing is first being
21:56
exposed to the music before I could do anything
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else, you know. Yeah, that makes sense. And I
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just fell in love with it. And so that's what
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I really loved the most was jazz. And that is
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what inspired me to develop my playing to a higher
22:17
level. It still does that for me, even at my
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age. It'll never be over until there's no life
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in me. That's the way I look at it. It's a lifelong
22:27
endeavor. I never will know everything there
22:30
is to know. Yeah. Which is good. I don't mind
22:34
that. And that's kind of like the artist. the
22:37
artist's dilemma or whatever. I don't know. I'm
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making this up. The name is like where you're
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always trying to refine your art. You're never
22:45
happy with what you just made and you have to
22:48
go to the next thing and make a new thing. Yeah.
22:50
It used to be, I used to think that it was just
22:53
jazz musicians that were like that, but Buck
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was like that. Yeah. You know, that's what drove
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him to go beyond the sound that he developed,
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you know. Back in the early 60s. Yeah. From the
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time that I started in the band to the time that
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I left, like three and a half years later. I
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mean, his sound changed by the time I left. It
23:17
was a big change. And that's just how he was.
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I was instilled with that from the very beginning.
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Be the best that you can be. And through that,
23:29
there'll be no end. Because you're constantly...
23:33
searching, developing, and hopefully getting
23:35
new ideas to keep moving forward, you know. But
23:39
not everybody is like that. Yeah. You understand
23:41
that? Yeah, not everyone has the drive to do
23:44
that. Yeah, or the gift to be a Charlie Parker
23:48
or Duke Ellington or Miles Davis or John Coltrane,
23:52
you know. Yeah. But there's room for everybody.
23:54
Yeah. You decide your path and where you want
23:58
to take it. It's as simple as that. That's all
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I can say about it. Yeah, I mean, that's good
24:04
advice. So we get to 1962, but going back to
24:09
1962, I saw in the newspaper, the Corpus Christi
24:13
Times or the Corpus Christi Caller Times, that
24:16
you are playing in the all -district band that
24:19
you had to try out for, for marching. At the
24:22
same time, there's ads for the Maison Rouge jazz
24:27
sessions, and you're playing with the Joe Gallardo
24:30
combo. Yeah, Joe Gallardo. That was strictly
24:34
on Sundays, the jab session. And my drum teacher
24:38
actually led a lot of those sessions. Joe Gallardo
24:42
was a nephew of my teacher, Beto Garcia. Oh,
24:49
cool. Yeah. It's funny. All the Mexican or Hispanic
24:54
musicians... and Corpus were related somehow.
24:58
They were cousins or this or that. There were
25:01
two generations. My teacher, Beto, he was in
25:04
his mid -30s, okay? He had a regular day job
25:07
at Corn Products. He loved jazz, and he came
25:13
from a musical family. His dad was a drummer.
25:16
His mom was also a pianist and drummer. And he
25:20
had two other brothers, Peter. Garcia, he was
25:25
the eldest, and he played like swing style or
25:29
pre -swing style drumming. And then there was
25:34
Rudy, and he was more from the 50s, 60s style.
25:41
And Beto was from the 50s and 60s style, but
25:45
not quite as adventuresome as Rudy. Okay. Rudy
25:53
was into the latest thing. And he was the one
25:58
that I related to the most once I had been playing
26:02
for maybe a couple of years, two, three years.
26:05
And through my recordings, we liked a lot of
26:10
the same music stylistically, you know, and the
26:15
more adventuresome music. And I was kind of like
26:18
a third generation. in the line of drummers,
26:22
you know? Beto was in his mid -30s, Rudy was
26:25
in his mid -20s, and I was like 15. There weren't
26:30
any real younger musicians my age that were interested
26:37
in playing jazz. There were some that liked jazz,
26:40
but no one, none of my school buddies are...
26:45
members in the marching or concert band had any
26:47
interest in playing jazz. So I was like a rare
26:51
bird, you know, in a sense. From my understanding
26:54
of how things developed after I left my hometown,
26:58
I was kind of like the last of the jazz players.
27:02
There might have been one or two people that
27:04
I never really knew, but I never heard of them.
27:07
I see it as three generations there, you know.
27:10
Well, actually, okay, so... Actually, probably
27:14
four, because Beto's parents, who were very active.
27:19
And I've seen pictures of that particular group.
27:24
And it's a band, like, from the 1920s. Wow. A
27:29
jazz band there in Corpus, you know. Probably
27:33
styled very much like Louis Armstrong's groups
27:36
that he had back then. So there was... Albert
27:42
Garcia Sr., then Albert Garcia Jr., and then
27:50
Rudy Garcia, and then me. I was the last of the
27:55
line of the jazz drummers in Corpus that were
27:59
really serious about it. Beto, like I said, had
28:04
a day job, but Rudy Garcia, he made a living
28:08
as a professional drummer. Mainly playing in
28:11
society bands. He used to travel and work out
28:15
of town a lot, like in Houston or, say, like
28:19
Bowling Green, Kentucky, or maybe somewhere in
28:23
Colorado, you know. He never knew where the groups
28:26
that he played with were going to lead him. But
28:29
he mainly played because he could make more money
28:32
playing in society bands, either a quartet or
28:36
an orchestra. But he was... He was a total jazz
28:41
drummer, you know. And so I ended up playing
28:47
country music my whole life pretty well, you
28:50
know. Yeah. I played, when I lived in San Francisco,
28:54
there was a time for a couple of years where
28:58
I was doing society gigs and just a lot of regular
29:01
suit and tie type gigs, you know. But mostly
29:05
it was all country. All my professional life
29:09
has been playing country music pretty well, even
29:12
though I did other styles of music, but it was
29:16
predominantly country. When I lived in Canada,
29:19
I didn't do any country, hardly other than in
29:22
the studios, but I did the tuxedo scene, hotels
29:27
and bar mitzvahs and what have you. That's how
29:30
I made my living when I was in Canada. And in
29:35
the recording studios, I'd play country music.
29:37
But that was about it. Yeah. So going back to
29:41
Beto, the cool thing about him is that he taught
29:45
you to be a working drummer. He taught you mambo,
29:49
bolero, merengue, foxtrots, bocas, society. He
29:53
taught you everything so you could be well -rounded,
29:56
which is really cool, which helped you in your
29:59
life. Yes, it did. It gave me... Versatility.
30:04
I became very versatile through that. And by
30:09
being taught that way, it kept my mind open to
30:15
other rhythms, you know, and just to music in
30:19
general. Like he was so important to your drumming.
30:24
Oh, he was. Without him, I don't know what would
30:30
have happened. Because he turned me into a professional
30:33
musician. After going and sitting on jobs with
30:38
him, right next to him and watching him and listening,
30:41
eventually he started sending me as his sub because
30:45
he couldn't cover everything. So he started sending
30:50
me. And that's how I started developing a reputation.
30:56
Once I was in high school, people were calling
31:00
me directly. to do jobs because they knew i had
31:04
studied with beto and they knew what to expect
31:07
and uh the the way uh i met buck owens and how
31:13
that all transpired you know uh was at a time
31:18
when i was ready to leave home anyway and seek
31:24
out my future so to speak yeah But instead of
31:28
going to New York, I ended up going to California,
31:30
which is okay, you know. Yeah. It was probably
31:33
the best thing that could have happened to me.
31:36
So that's all I can say. Yeah. I was a jazz snob
31:41
because I thought that jazz was the only great
31:46
music there was at that time, you know. Other
31:49
than playing in the symphony, jazz was the highest
31:54
in terms of learning. The play, it was the higher
31:58
music of all that was popular at that time. It's
32:03
no longer like that. But it used to be at one
32:06
time because the best musicians were jazz musicians
32:10
back then in the 60s. Not that, you know, like
32:15
you had your service marching bands. All the
32:19
musicians that played in those bands, they were
32:22
superior players. But you see, in my mind, It
32:26
took a lot to be able to play jazz. And so that's
32:30
what made it a superiority complex kind of developed
32:34
at a very young age. And also having older players
32:38
talking about, nah, that's not good. Those guys
32:44
can't play this, you know. So therefore, I kind
32:48
of became like them until I matured and was out
32:52
on my own and saw that the world was really different.
32:56
And it started, it was changing all during those
32:58
years, during Buck's years and after that, there
33:04
were some big effects happening in music, especially
33:07
rock and roll, you know, all those bands in the
33:11
70s, you know, from England and also the American
33:15
bands. that were coming out. I think you know
33:18
who I'm talking about. I don't have to mention
33:20
names. But the progression, the musical level
33:24
of the rock and roll players had really come
33:27
a long ways from the Ventures. That was in the
33:32
early 60s. That music was so simplistic that
33:36
I really looked down on it. Because it was so
33:39
easy to play and anybody could play it. So I
33:42
thought. But you live and learn and you find
33:46
out that there's art everywhere. So right before
33:51
that, you started drumming for burlesque, right?
33:55
Well, yeah, while I was still in high school,
33:59
well, there was a limited number of drummers,
34:03
drum set players in Corpus. And Beto was like,
34:09
you could say, the first call drummer. that if
34:13
anybody needed a drummer they knew to call him,
34:16
and if he couldn't do it, he would direct you
34:19
in the right direction, you know, where you could
34:22
find someone. Other than myself, there were a
34:25
couple of other guys older than me in town that
34:29
also jobbed around. But I was, as I said, became
34:33
very versatile, and I could, you know... Anywhere
34:40
musically you wanted me to go, I could go without
34:42
a problem. What can I say? Before long, I took
34:47
over a lot of Beto's jobs because he just could
34:50
not do them anymore, you know? Yeah. And I joined,
34:54
ended up being the drummer in this orchestra,
34:57
a Latin orchestra. You know, we played Mexican
35:01
dances and what have you. And it was made up
35:04
of some of the jazz, younger jazz players, Joe
35:06
Gallardo and what have you. And even the gentlemen
35:12
that were my band directors, Joe Medina Jr.,
35:16
who was an ultra saxophone player, excellent
35:19
saxophone player. He was like the lead alto player
35:22
in the big band. And also Eddie Galvan, who became
35:29
a high school band director at Roy Miller High
35:35
School. played in this jazz quartet and also,
35:40
you know, society quartet, you know, doing hotel
35:44
gigs and whatever. So, you know, to be playing
35:48
with my band directors, well, that was a big
35:50
honor for me. But, you know, I was kind of put
35:53
in that position because there were no other
35:58
players in town, you know, to fill in those spots.
36:01
And it was good for me because of the experience
36:04
that I got. playing with musicians that have
36:08
been professional for most of their lives. Yeah.
36:15
So that in itself helped me develop my confidence
36:20
in what I was able to do. It all kind of led
36:25
me to Buck Owens, so to speak. You know, those
36:30
kind of situations hardly happen anymore. Those
36:34
were things of the old days where a band comes
36:38
to town, they hear a younger musician play. That's
36:41
what happened to Miles Davis, you know, and Charlie
36:44
Parker and a lot of other people. Those are the
36:48
old days. I'm kind of like at the tail end of
36:50
that. And my dream at that time when I was in
36:54
junior high school was to go to college and study
36:58
with whoever was teaching jazz drumming. That
37:03
was my dream, but it never happened. So I had
37:06
to learn, get my education in a different way.
37:10
And through the years, I did go to two or three
37:14
other teachers that helped me progress to a higher
37:18
level. So it all worked out. Yeah. So you're
37:24
in Corpus Christi and you're jobbing around,
37:28
as you said, gigging at all these different places
37:30
while you're still going to school. And you start
37:33
playing a country gig at the Maverick Club, right?
37:37
Mm -hmm. And that's where you come across Buck
37:40
Owens. Could you explain that? Well, that was
37:44
like my, let's see, that happened in October
37:50
and November that I was at the Maverick Club.
37:54
What happened was one of my drummer friends,
37:58
and he was two or three years older than me.
38:01
He was going to North Texas State College, and
38:05
he was studying with this drummer that I wanted
38:06
to study with. His name was Tommy Gwynn. He had
38:11
been like a big band drummer and became very
38:15
notable as a teacher. So that was one of my goals
38:20
at that time. But anyway, my friend Don, Don
38:24
Sowell, unbeknownst to me, he had been working
38:26
that summer. I don't know when the Maverick Club
38:31
opened, but it hadn't been too long. And Don
38:36
called me up one afternoon and he said, listen,
38:41
they're needing a drummer at this club over North
38:44
Beach. He says, it's country music. And I didn't
38:48
know what country music was. And he said, so
38:52
-and -so has done it. They don't like it. He
38:56
passed it on to us. another so -and -so, and
39:00
he didn't like it either, and I ended up with
39:03
it, and now it's time for me to go back to college.
39:06
Are you interested in it? And I said, sure, I'll
39:10
do it, not knowing really what I was getting
39:12
myself into. Because I grew up with the thought
39:17
in mind that you never turn a job down, no matter
39:22
what style of music it is. With that in mind...
39:26
I took the job, and I was there for a couple
39:30
of months. And during that time, well, I discovered
39:34
what country music was sort of like, not only
39:37
because of the band that I was playing with,
39:39
but because of the records that was on the jukebox,
39:42
which was Buck Owens, Ray Price, Jim Reeves,
39:45
and possibly George Jones. But I remember mainly
39:48
those three that I heard on the jukebox, and
39:51
I thought, I like this, you know. I didn't care
39:54
for the style of country that the band that I
39:57
was in played. I mean, mind you, it was all new
40:01
to me. And so I didn't really know what to think
40:04
of it in the sense of whether I liked it or not.
40:07
I don't think I really liked, I didn't like the
40:09
way they dressed. Cowboy boots and hats and Western
40:12
shirts and funny looking pants, you know. So
40:15
they tried to get me to dress like that. And
40:18
I remember one Saturday going out. to several
40:21
stores where they sell boots and stuff. This
40:25
is mainly, you have to know, those kind of stores
40:27
catered to farmers, okay? Yeah. The whole Western
40:32
wear clothing, you had to go to a store that
40:39
supplied goods like that to farmers. I remember
40:42
we all bunched up in this car and rode around
40:46
to two or three of these places trying to find
40:49
boots. and hats that all matched and possibly
40:52
shirts if possible. And I was never so happy
40:56
to see that we couldn't find matching shirts
40:59
or anything for the whole band. So I probably
41:05
just wore jeans and a dress shirt of something,
41:08
you know. Yeah. And didn't have to wear cowboy
41:10
boots or a hat. And the other guys just wore
41:14
what they had. And it was Western style. You
41:18
know, the boots with the Thunderbird design on
41:21
them, you know, that was popular at that time.
41:23
And as it turned out, the owner of the club...
41:27
Don Presley? Don Presley and his wife Dottie,
41:32
they supposedly were third cousins of Elvis'.
41:37
Yeah, I looked that up, but there's nothing...
41:41
I'm not saying they aren't, but I couldn't find
41:43
any. Okay. Well, it could have been that maybe
41:48
they just said that to give them some sort of
41:51
credibility, you know? Yeah. I don't know. I
41:53
mean, it's good marketing. Yeah. They were very
41:56
nice people. And he sang in the old style, like
42:02
Hawkshaw Hawkins or Hank Williams. And the band
42:07
was more that older style country. Yeah. A cross
42:13
between Hank Thompson and Hank Williams, as the
42:18
way I would put it, even though we had an electric
42:21
bass player. This is what I'm remembering. Electric
42:25
bass, and he was maybe four or five years older
42:31
than me. He was from San Antonio, and I can't
42:34
remember his name now. There was the leader,
42:37
other than Don, he was... This is the leader
42:40
on the bandstand. Don was the club owner, and
42:43
he also sang with the band. And there was a fiddle
42:49
player. His name was just, they called him Petey.
42:53
And his name, I think, was Peter David. And there
42:57
was a lead guitar player that I swear he must
43:01
have been on dope every night. And he constantly
43:04
was chewing gum, trying to be funny, trying to
43:07
be funny, you know. all night long by telling
43:10
me little jokes. But, you know, they were all
43:14
nice people, and it was just like a strange little
43:20
band, you know. Yeah, definitely a little bit
43:22
of culture shock for you, probably. Yeah, it
43:25
was. But apparently, I can't remember what I
43:29
played, but I'm thinking I played something like
43:33
a swing -type beat on the hi -hat and the ride
43:36
cymbal. and they wanted to hear a backbeat on
43:39
all the songs, and I didn't cross the... The
43:44
stick? The stick, yeah. Like Buck Owens -style
43:49
music, I don't remember ever doing that with
43:52
that music, you know. I think they wanted to
43:54
hear just a nice backbeat, kind of like the Bob
43:58
Wills -style band. Yeah. You know, kind of like
44:01
that. I fit in because, you know, Western Swing...
44:05
It comes from jazz, from the swing era. Yeah.
44:09
They're connected. So I'm thinking that's how
44:13
I got through that job, you know. But whatever
44:18
I did, I must have done it well enough to impress
44:22
Don Rich, who was Buck's right -hand man. And
44:27
he's the one that told Buck about me to hire
44:30
me, you know. So that's all I can say. That's
44:34
how it happened. Buck never heard me play. After
44:37
a month or so, well, we were almost two months
44:40
now in November, we were going to do a radio
44:45
show on a Friday right at noon, which we did
44:49
every week, and didn't do it because President
44:53
Kennedy had been assassinated. And Buck was appearing
44:58
at the club that night. And I don't think attendance
45:02
was really poor that night. So he decided that
45:05
he would play the whole night with his band.
45:10
Originally, we were supposed to alternate sets
45:13
with Buck's band. And so that's why I was at
45:17
the club. But then at the last minute, he said,
45:19
listen, the way it's looking out there, we'll
45:22
just play the whole night, meaning probably did
45:24
three or four sets. And so I decided to stay
45:29
there. Because I liked the music, the way his
45:33
music sounded on the jukebox. And it sounded
45:36
just as good live. And I was very impressed by
45:40
their sound and the fact that I enjoyed it. And
45:45
I never got bored listening to song after song.
45:48
And also Mel King, the drummer before me that
45:52
was with Bucket that night, played the same beat,
45:55
maybe different tempos. But the same sound, hi
45:58
-hat and cross stick, all night long. And I never
46:03
noticed that it was the same beat. But I remember
46:07
asking myself, it's not boring. So it must be
46:13
the right thing that he's playing. If it sounds
46:16
right, how can it be boring? So that taught me
46:21
something. That was a lesson from that night.
46:24
And so I got to meet the band. at the end of
46:27
the night. And Buck and, of course, the rest
46:30
of the guys. And Dole Holly, the bass player,
46:33
who had only been in the band maybe a couple
46:35
of months before, is the one that approached
46:37
me and asked me for my name and phone number.
46:42
And would I be interested in coming out to California
46:45
in case there were any developments? Not necessarily
46:49
with Buck, but I didn't know what it meant, you
46:51
know, at that point. And so that's how it started.
46:55
And then in February of the following year, 1964,
47:00
I got a call from Buck that first week, I remember,
47:05
like on a Monday. I couldn't believe that he
47:09
was actually calling me because I had never considered
47:12
anything like playing in a road band like that.
47:15
So the first thing I told him was I needed permission
47:19
from my parents to leave home, which I was planning
47:22
on doing anyway within that year. I wanted to
47:25
go to New York City and pursue my jazz interests,
47:28
which never happened at that time. And so my
47:34
parents gave me their blessing. And I called
47:36
Buck back and he said, well, I'll mail you some
47:39
money and you can fly out Saturday. You know,
47:43
that's how it started. I flew out there. I should
47:47
ask you, you joined the band. Do you remember
47:49
what month it was? of 1964. Yeah, it was early
47:53
February, probably the first week. Look at the
47:58
date of when Together Again and My Heart Skips
48:03
a Beat were recorded, and that's the day that
48:07
I arrived in Bakersfield. It was on a Saturday.
48:11
I remember it was on a Saturday because the band
48:13
was in Hollywood recording those songs when I
48:18
actually arrived. In Bakersfield. Wow. So the
48:24
wives, let's see, Don's wife, Marlene, and Tom's
48:29
wife, and Buck's wife, Marlene and Rolene, that's
48:34
funny. Tom's wife was Rolene. And Buck's wife,
48:39
her name escapes me right now, Phyllis. And Doyle's
48:48
wife was not there. But so anyway, those three
48:52
were at the airport to meet me. Phyllis informed
48:55
me that Buck wanted me to stay out at the ranch,
48:59
not to bother getting an apartment or anything.
49:02
And so she showed me to my quarters once we got
49:06
to the ranch. And that was like the beginning.
49:10
I didn't see Buck for a couple of days. Once
49:12
I got to the ranch and settled in, Phyllis came
49:16
out with a stack of records, half a dozen, 12
49:18
records. I don't know how many records Buck had
49:21
done by that time, LPs. And she told me that
49:26
Buck wanted me to listen to the records because
49:30
he didn't know just how much of his music I had
49:33
heard. And of course, I hadn't heard anything
49:36
else other than just what I heard that night,
49:38
which, I mean, I didn't know any of the songs.
49:41
But I guess the only thing that I'd heard on
49:44
the jukebox was either Act Naturally or Love's
49:48
Gonna Live Here. I forget which one was out the
49:50
previous year that was out on the jukebox. So
49:55
maybe both of them were. But anyway, so I spent
49:59
the afternoon listening to recordings and just
50:04
noticing how basically everything was based on
50:08
just that shuffle beat. various ways of playing
50:12
it because each record had a different drummer
50:15
on it, you know. And so it gave me some ideas.
50:19
Some drummers played all brushes. Some played
50:22
brushing a stick. And the more current ones before
50:26
me played sticks only, you know. It gave me some
50:31
ideas in terms of what had happened in the songs
50:34
before, which were all basically shuffle -based,
50:37
you know. That cleared my mind, and I figured
50:41
that would be easy enough for me to cover. I
50:44
came into his band in February of 1964. Just
50:50
as he was starting to really break big time,
50:54
he'd had a couple of hits, Act Naturally and
50:58
Love's Gonna Live Here, I believe. And when I
51:01
came in, the next things that followed were I
51:04
Don't Care and Crying Time, which I happened
51:08
to be the drummer. And that was also my first
51:12
venture into the studio, you know, especially
51:15
with someone that was on the rise. When I arrived
51:20
in Bakersfield that Saturday, they were in L
51:23
.A., actually Hollywood, at Capitol Records.
51:25
So it was a couple of days before. And I stayed
51:29
out at the ranch, other than Buck, seeing him
51:32
at breakfast, you know. And then maybe an hour
51:35
or two later, Merle Haggard and Bonnie Owens
51:38
show up with a recording that they wanted to
51:42
play Buck and get his opinion. You know, that's
51:45
when I first heard of Merle Haggard. Both those
51:49
two men, you know, all of a sudden, the same
51:52
day. You know, I had no clue. that Merle would
51:57
become such a big item in years to come. Yeah.
52:03
But I felt all along that he deserved it because
52:06
he definitely had developed a unique style as
52:09
well. I think one thing that was different is
52:12
that he really had some deep stories in his songs
52:16
that were like narratives almost that a lot of
52:19
other people didn't do. Exactly. But a funny
52:23
thing, the way Buck was... And Don was like the
52:29
go -between. He was the next youngest in the
52:35
band. He was like five, six years older than
52:38
me. And so he kind of became really close because
52:45
I turned him on to a lot of jazz things, and
52:49
he didn't necessarily like everything, but at
52:52
least he would listen. He learned, he incorporated
52:57
a lot from other guitarists that played other
53:02
styles of music, not just the rock and roll,
53:06
but like the Beatles, you know. He would be influenced
53:09
by, you know, a lot of different things. And
53:12
he was like a melting pot. He took the Buck Owens
53:15
guitar style and added a different dimension
53:20
to it. And people don't know. A lot of guitar
53:24
players here in Nashville think that Don Rich
53:28
originated that style. And I have to remind them
53:32
that Buck Owens was really the original because
53:35
he was a guitar player to begin with. Yeah, he
53:37
was a studio musician. He was really good. He
53:40
played other styles, too. Yeah. But not jazz
53:44
in the sense of modern jazz. His jazz that he
53:48
liked was more swing era. Jazz. Yeah. You know,
53:53
heavy melodic. Well, like Lionel Hampton. He
53:58
was one of his favorites, you know. He didn't
54:01
criticize me for listening to what I listened
54:05
to. He just didn't understand it. Yeah. And he
54:09
would tell me, you know, he knew that what I
54:12
listened to influenced me well enough to help
54:17
me improve. And he wanted to have musicians in
54:22
the band that were like that. You know, they
54:26
were wanting to surge ahead and try new things.
54:32
You see, that's what he was into without having
54:34
to say that. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, one of the
54:39
things that I introduced was sitar. Oh, that's
54:43
cool. Yeah. I remember I learned about it from
54:46
the Beatles, you know. Well, yes, but I had heard
54:50
it through a musician in Bakersfield. Oh. This
54:57
jazz saxophonist had a girlfriend that was a
55:01
schoolteacher. Oh, yeah. I want to know about
55:03
the jazz scene in Bakersfield. Well, there was.
55:07
Was it a club called The Squeeze? I don't remember
55:12
that name. I do remember that the first jazz
55:16
musician. or the first musician I met, was my
55:21
first day in Bakersfield. That's awesome. So
55:25
I was at the ranch, okay? Yeah. And with Buck's
55:30
family. He had two sons and a daughter. And so
55:35
I didn't realize how far outside of Bakersfield
55:39
he was, like maybe 20 miles or so. And I said
55:43
to his wife, Phyllis, I said, how far is Bakersfield?
55:49
And he says, oh, pretty far. And I said, well,
55:52
maybe I can go down to the highway, which is
55:56
maybe like a mile down from where they were,
55:58
and catch a bus. And she says, there's no buses
56:02
running on Sunday, especially all the way out
56:05
here. And I said, well, I feel like I need to
56:08
go for a walk. And if I can find Bakersfield,
56:12
you know. That's where I want to go. I want to
56:15
see what it's like. And she says, well, you're
56:18
welcome to walk all the way there if you want.
56:21
And you see, I grew up walking everywhere in
56:25
Texas. I didn't let the fact that I didn't drive
56:28
a car or did not have money to ride the bus.
56:32
If I wanted to go somewhere, I would just go
56:35
and find it. That's how I grew up. And that's
56:38
how me and my friends were. We were adventurous.
56:43
took off for the day. And my parents wouldn't
56:46
see us all day long until suppertime, you know.
56:49
And that was okay so long as we came home, you
56:51
know. So it was no big thing for me to take off.
56:56
And it was, let me tell you, it was a really
56:58
hot day. And so... Within a few miles from Buck's
57:03
Ranch, I was on the main highway to Bakersfield,
57:07
and I saw a convenient gas store, and so I went
57:11
in there to take a break and maybe have a Coke.
57:14
And as I was walking towards the door, I noticed
57:19
this gentleman gassing up, and I thought, he
57:23
had these kind of sunglasses that... made him
57:28
look like he was blind, you know. And I thought,
57:30
I haven't seen sunglasses like that. So he caught
57:34
my eye, you know. So anyway, I didn't say anything
57:36
to him. I walked in, got me a drink, and I started
57:39
talking to the attendant in there about why,
57:44
you know, that being my first day in Bakersfield,
57:47
and I was going to be Buck Owens' new drummer.
57:51
be in the band and this and that, and trying
57:54
to make my way to Bakersfield, just so that I,
57:56
you know, I'll spend the day. And we were talking,
58:00
and in the meantime, this person that was outside
58:03
with those sunglasses walked in, and he said,
58:07
did I hear you mention Buck Owens? And I said,
58:10
yeah. And he said, so I'm so -and -so, Rick Perez
58:14
is his name, and he played tenor saxophone, and
58:18
he had a regular day job. But he loved John Coltrane.
58:23
So you know the connection was going to be there.
58:27
Because that's who my favorite band was at that
58:31
particular time was Elvin Jones with John Coltrane.
58:34
And he was totally into Coltrane. We started
58:36
talking and he said, so you're going to walk
58:39
all the way downtown? He says, well, it's going
58:41
to take you all day long. I says, I'm going back
58:45
home. Why don't I give you a ride downtown and
58:49
you can... I'll drive you around Bakersfield
58:51
so you can see it. And then I'll bring you back
58:53
to the ranch, you know, where you're staying.
58:55
So I said, well, okay. I mean, he seemed trustworthy
58:59
and I was willing, you know. And so we became
59:03
like the best of friends. But that was the beginning.
59:07
Because he introduced me to the jazz musicians,
59:12
you know. Whenever I was in town, I'd call him
59:15
up and he'd come get me. We'd go hit some of
59:21
the clubs. And, oh, he was a great player then.
59:26
I might have sat in, you know, a few times, but
59:30
I just wanted to hear and see what was going
59:33
on in Bakersfield. He became a legend here, a
59:37
local legend playing the South. For 70 years,
59:41
he was playing gigs here. Oh, great. Well, I
59:45
think he lived there all his life. And he introduced
59:48
me to someone that would become a really good
59:51
friend as well as him, Wolfgang Mels. He was
59:54
from Germany, and he was an electric bass player.
59:58
He didn't play acoustic. All he played was electric,
1:00:02
and he played jazz on the electric, which wasn't
1:00:07
a common thing at that particular time. And he
1:00:11
was in town working at a holiday inn with a group.
1:00:15
from where I can't, I don't remember where they
1:00:18
came from. Probably the East Coast, I'm thinking.
1:00:21
And they had been there maybe a year or so. So
1:00:27
they had this longstanding contract at the Holiday
1:00:31
Inn in Bakersfield to be the house band. So as
1:00:35
it turned out, maybe after a couple of months
1:00:42
or so, I decided that I needed to get my own
1:00:46
place. And Wolf helped me find something, which
1:00:51
happened to be like about a block away from his
1:00:54
home. And so that was convenient because we became
1:00:59
better friends. And we used to get together and
1:01:02
jam together, just bass and drums. And also my
1:01:06
first car that I owned in Bakersfield. belonged
1:01:11
to his girlfriend. They both had MGA sports cars,
1:01:18
which were a British car. And hers had been sitting
1:01:22
in the back of the apartment. Just hadn't been
1:01:27
running a long time. So I got a really good deal
1:01:30
on it, and I bought it. And that was my introduction
1:01:34
to sports cars. Wow. So anyway, so... That was
1:01:41
that in regards to Wolf and I, like I said, became
1:01:47
really good friends. And we used to listen to
1:01:50
records together and talk about music and this
1:01:54
and that. And I would go out to maybe the place
1:01:58
that he played at and listen. I never did sit
1:02:02
in, but different times. A lot of times I would
1:02:07
go either with him or with Rick. And since Wolf
1:02:12
was working every night pretty well, I think
1:02:15
it was more often with, I mean, Wolf was working
1:02:19
every night, so Rick and I would go out to several
1:02:23
places, and he would introduce me to some of
1:02:26
the musicians in town and drummers. And so that's
1:02:31
how I kind of got started in Bakersfield, you
1:02:36
know, sitting in with groups that he, you know.
1:02:39
used to go sit in with. And, uh, so that was
1:02:45
kind of like, uh, my, my life outside of country
1:02:50
music, you know, in Bakersfield and slowly getting
1:02:54
to know the, uh, the Bakersfield jazz players.
1:02:58
Yeah. That's really cool. Like I said, it's cool
1:03:01
that you were friends with Richie Perez because
1:03:04
he stayed here playing for 70 years doing gigs
1:03:08
here. How many years? That's really awesome.
1:03:10
He was doing gigs for 70 years. He had a 70 -year
1:03:14
career. 70? Yeah, he played tenor saxophone.
1:03:18
It's really cool. So I pretty well knew that
1:03:22
he was from Bakersfield, and I knew he was married
1:03:26
and had quite a large family. That's about as
1:03:29
much as I recall of him. I never met his family
1:03:33
that I can remember, because usually he would
1:03:37
come by to pick me up. and we would go to clubs
1:03:41
and stuff, and that was basically it. Yeah. That's
1:03:46
the only times I saw him, you know. Do you remember
1:03:49
the names of any of those clubs back then? No.
1:03:55
The only ones that I remember are the ones that
1:03:58
had country music, like the Barrel House. I think
1:04:02
Bonnie Owens and the drummer that became his
1:04:06
regular... Merrill Haggard's regular drummer
1:04:09
years later, when he finally got his career off
1:04:13
the ground and formed his own band, Bob Gallardo.
1:04:18
They pronounce it Gallardo, but I think it's
1:04:21
Gallardo. Yeah. He might have had only one L,
1:04:24
so it would have been Gallardo. But I've never
1:04:27
heard of a Spanish name of Gallardo. I've known
1:04:30
Gallardos. So there was him, and then there was
1:04:36
the... At the Barrel House and then the other
1:04:39
place that I went to, the Blackboard, I think.
1:04:44
Yeah, the Blackboard and Texas Barrel House.
1:04:46
Those were two honky -tonks. How often did you
1:04:50
play honky -tonks when you were in town? Because
1:04:52
you were touring a lot, right? Yeah, I never
1:04:55
did. But I think it took me a long time. I mean,
1:05:01
I'd been in Bakersfield maybe a couple of years
1:05:03
before I actually went. to any of the country
1:05:07
places. One, the Blackboard, I only went out,
1:05:12
I was there just once, mainly because we had
1:05:17
backed Rose Maddox. You know who Rose Maddox
1:05:21
was? Yeah. Okay. Well, we used to back her up
1:05:24
on the road from time to time. And somehow this
1:05:29
one time she happened to be in Bakersfield and
1:05:32
I got a phone call from her. asking me to come
1:05:36
out to the blackboard where she was and several
1:05:39
other people in her entourage. I don't recall
1:05:42
who all it was. And she says, they want me to
1:05:46
sit in here with the band, and I don't want to
1:05:50
play with this drummer, so can you come out and
1:05:54
play behind me? And I just happened to be home
1:05:58
doing nothing. And so I said, excuse me. Okay,
1:06:03
I'll come out. So within an hour, I think I went
1:06:05
out there, and then she agreed to get up. But
1:06:08
she wasn't going to get up until I was there.
1:06:12
Wow. So that's the only time I was ever in there
1:06:15
and got to meet the local players. I don't remember
1:06:18
who it was. And so that was my only time there.
1:06:24
And then another time, I don't know, I might
1:06:27
have been with Rick, and we just maybe drove
1:06:30
by the Burrell House. and decided to go in. And
1:06:34
I think I knew Bonnie was working there. She
1:06:39
also toured with Buck's entourage on the road.
1:06:43
And so I might have found out that's where she
1:06:46
worked when she was in town. And that's why I
1:06:49
stopped by there, just to hear the band and,
1:06:51
you know, and meet some of the guys. And that
1:06:54
was about it. But I never worked any of the places.
1:06:58
Nobody ever called me. I didn't know any of the...
1:07:02
the Bakersfield musicians, so to speak, the only
1:07:07
jobs I did were outside country music. They were
1:07:10
more jazz -oriented. There was another saxophonist
1:07:15
that I met after I'd been there for a couple
1:07:17
of years, and I don't recall his name, but I
1:07:24
remember when I had a car. Or maybe he would
1:07:31
come over and pick me up, me and my drums, because
1:07:35
I had a two -seater. And so therefore, I really
1:07:40
didn't have room for a drum set to go do any
1:07:43
jobs, you know. So anytime I did any jobs with
1:07:47
anyone, they would come by and get me, you know.
1:07:51
And he was a really good jazz saxophone player,
1:07:55
too. Actually, it was... being with him and going
1:07:58
to his girlfriend's home before going to her
1:08:01
job, that I first heard music from India that
1:08:07
was being played while I was waiting. And it
1:08:10
was Ravi Shankar. And that, I had never heard
1:08:14
such a sound before. And this is before the Beatles
1:08:18
came out with their Rubber Soul album with the
1:08:22
Indian sitar. And so this is Ravi Shankar and
1:08:30
the tabla player was a young man that died very
1:08:35
young. Shatur Lal was his name. And any chance
1:08:40
I got, either in Bakersfield or any big cities,
1:08:44
I would search out their albums. You know, it
1:08:48
took me a long time before I actually found a
1:08:50
Ravi Shankar album. And pretty well got, you
1:08:54
know, really hooked on that. that music. And
1:08:58
it just kind of just opened up my mind musically
1:09:02
and rhythmically what was happening. So that
1:09:05
was a good thing. I also played several black
1:09:12
clubs with this saxophone player. He was black.
1:09:15
And so I got to meet some of the black players
1:09:19
in town. And one of the drummers that I met at
1:09:23
that time, I remember, I don't recall his name.
1:09:26
But he had just gotten off the road working with
1:09:28
James Brown. So, you know, just hanging out,
1:09:34
talking drums and whatever, you know. And so
1:09:38
I did maybe organ trio gigs with the saxophonist,
1:09:48
you know. And that was about it. You know, those
1:09:54
that I can recall, I didn't. I wasn't in town
1:09:57
that much. That's all I recall ever doing. Do
1:10:00
you know if you ever played at the Cotton Club
1:10:03
or the Squeeze? No, those names don't. You know,
1:10:08
every city has a Cotton Club. Yeah, there was
1:10:15
one in Corpus, I believe, maybe. Yeah, we had
1:10:18
a club called the Cotton Club, and it was actually
1:10:21
the official stop for the Chitlin Circuit. When
1:10:25
the Chitlin' Circuit would go from LA to Fresno
1:10:28
or whatever, they would always stop here or there.
1:10:30
Okay. So were they organ trios? I don't know
1:10:35
about organ trios. I'm not sure. Mm -hmm. Because
1:10:39
that was real popular back in the 60s. I know
1:10:44
in Corpus, at the Downbeat Club, they had an
1:10:48
organ trio or a quartet, you know, maybe with
1:10:52
a guitar player. That's what I recall. And this
1:10:58
one singer that I played with quite often, her
1:11:02
name was Jewel King. You might want to look her
1:11:06
name up. She lived in Corpus and worked a lot
1:11:11
there, but I don't know where she was really
1:11:13
from originally. But she liked having me playing
1:11:18
on drums, so I worked with her from time to time.
1:11:22
Jewel King was her name. All right. Actually,
1:11:25
she's the one that I stopped to see on my last
1:11:30
night in Bakersfield. You know the story I told
1:11:33
you about having to run in with the cops almost?
1:11:36
Oh, I don't remember that one. Yeah, I told you
1:11:38
that story before leaving Corpus. I went out
1:11:43
the night before to say goodbye to friends. Oh,
1:11:49
yes, yes. I thought you said in the night you
1:11:51
left Bakersfield and I was confused, but yeah.
1:11:53
No, no, no, no. I meant Corpus. I'm sorry. Yeah.
1:11:57
So that's who it was. And she was a pianist,
1:12:04
organ player that I recall. That's cool. There
1:12:09
was another place I just now remembered. It was
1:12:12
called Amos and Andy's. And it was a strictly
1:12:17
all -black club that I'm recalling. That's in
1:12:23
Corpus again? Yeah, yeah, Corpus. Yeah. Did you
1:12:27
have any culture shock having to come to Bakersfield
1:12:30
after living in Texas your whole life? Yes. Especially
1:12:35
working with an Ango band. You know, I'm of Mexican
1:12:41
heritage. And so I had played. you know, professionally,
1:12:47
the country club where you wear a suit and bow
1:12:50
tie, you know, and that. And usually, mainly,
1:12:53
they were Anglo affairs. And there might have
1:12:57
been some Hispanic people there, I don't know.
1:13:00
Well, there was still a lot of segregation back
1:13:02
then. Yeah, yeah, but usually, you know, the
1:13:05
private clubs were usually people with money,
1:13:11
you know, big money. And it didn't matter if
1:13:15
you were Mexican or Anglo or Black. If you belonged
1:13:21
to the club, you belonged to the club. That's
1:13:23
just the way it was. Those are the kind of gigs
1:13:26
that my teacher used to send me on because there
1:13:30
were jobs that he had originally played himself.
1:13:33
But he was just one person compared to several
1:13:38
people that used to call him. to do jobs with.
1:13:43
And so I became his second. And so I was exposed
1:13:50
to that type of environment, you know, which
1:13:55
was a very, what we call straight type of environment.
1:14:02
Even though they got drunk and everything on
1:14:05
champagne and whatever, you know, it was their
1:14:07
chance of having a good time, you know. Yeah.
1:14:11
And so it was my job to play in the band and
1:14:15
make everybody happy. So I guess we should mention,
1:14:20
just in case people listen that aren't too familiar
1:14:23
with the Buckaroos. So obviously you had Buck
1:14:27
Owens, who's the singer. You have Don Rich, who
1:14:31
is a guitarist, sometimes fiddle player. And
1:14:35
singer, harmony singer. That's right, harmony
1:14:37
singer. Doyle Hawley, who's the bassist. And
1:14:42
he did the low harmony sometimes. Yeah. You had
1:14:47
Tom Brumley, who was the steel guitar player.
1:14:52
That's correct. And you had you, Willie Cantu,
1:14:55
on the drums. Yes, and I didn't sing at all.
1:14:58
And I still don't. We were all different individuals.
1:15:06
And I could see that without... without even
1:15:10
having to think about it, because it was very
1:15:12
obvious that lifestyle, we were all different
1:15:16
parts, you know, especially me. Yeah. I was the
1:15:20
more different than them, which was okay. They
1:15:25
treated me just like a brother, and so did Buck.
1:15:29
He never looked at me as a teenager or anything
1:15:34
else other than just his drummer, you know. So
1:15:39
long as I performed at the level that I needed
1:15:42
to with a band, that's all that mattered. And
1:15:47
that's all I can say. AJ, thanks so much, man.
1:15:51
And look forward to the next one. Awesome. Thank
1:15:54
you. Okay. You take care. Ladies and gentlemen,
1:16:00
thank you so very much for tuning us in. Be sure
1:16:04
and look for us every time you get a chance.
1:16:06
Foreman, come on in here. Good job, Foreman.
1:16:10
Kay Adams. Tommy Collins got hit. He said he's
1:16:14
going to get hit. Thank you so much for being
1:16:16
so nice to us. We'll see you next time. Bye.