Latest / Constellations and all that... / 67. Family Constellations, Truth and the Price of Belonging with Rekha Kurup

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67. Family Constellations, Truth and the Price of Belonging with Rekha Kurup · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Kiona and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:03
  I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Kia everyone, and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:37
  Today I have the pleasure of chatting with Ika.
• 0:41
  Kup.
• 0:43
  I said that right, didn't I?
• 0:44
  Yes.
• 0:45
  Ray is in Ray of Sunshine and Ika.
• 0:48
  So welcome Reka, and I'd love for you to introduce yourself a little bit about just whatever's there for you.
• 0:56
  What is there on the top.
• 0:58
  Um, I am joining from, um, the Land of India, specifically south of India, Bangalore, and, um, I am, I come from Kerala, my roots go there, Northern part of Kerala to matrilineal, um, social organization that is no longer that, but it used to be that.
• 1:21
  Yeah, just when, as I say that, I just want to.
• 1:25
  I remember and acknowledge my ancestors, my parents, the land, my teachers.
• 1:31
  The way I would like to introduce myself would be that I've always been a seeker of truth, and that has led my path and taken me to different learnings and journeys and people, and, and, but at the bottom of it all, it has always been.
• 1:52
  To find ways to know myself as part of this whole, to know the whole as part of me.
• 2:01
  Yeah.
• 2:02
  So everywhere when I have, so, so that's, you know, versus what I do, I feel that's, that's my soul.
• 2:11
  It's forever seeking.
• 2:12
  Beautiful.
• 2:13
  Yeah.
• 2:14
  Can you tell me how long have you been.
• 2:16
  Involved with Family Constellation?
• 2:18
  Actually not that long.
• 2:19
  I, my journey into Constellation was with the training itself.
• 2:24
  So I had not really experienced Constellation before the training, but I was very much working, yeah, in the field.
• 2:30
  I was working a lot with ancestors before I came.
• 2:33
  So, uh, and people who were part of my work, they told me that you must look into this modality because what you do.
• 2:41
  So much is there's a lot of that you bring, which, what you don't know about it.
• 2:46
  And that's how I, uh, came to know Annie and I just joined the training.
• 2:52
  So I began with the training into family consolation in 2019.
• 2:56
  Beautiful.
• 2:57
  So, yeah.
• 2:58
  So it felt like something that I, I knew it was so much part of my skin when I came.
• 3:04
  It was So you hadn't even experienced it?
• 3:07
  No, not really.
• 3:08
  No.
• 3:09
  Wow.
• 3:10
  And you jumped in on the training.
• 3:11
  That's, that's taking a leap of faith, isn't it?
• 3:14
  Yes.
• 3:15
  It's, it's, how do you describe it to people?
• 3:18
  When you meet someone for the first time, how do you describe it?
• 3:21
  Because we all have different ways of describing the same thing, but it can be quite different sometimes.
• 3:28
  Right.
• 3:28
  And, and I feel it also depends upon who the person is.
• 3:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:33
  So sometimes, uh, just in the way of Constellation, I sense and I speak what comes in that moment.
• 3:42
  But for me, one thing that, that I see Constellation is that I am not this thing that I am many, I'm not an individual eye.
• 3:52
  I see myself as many.
• 3:56
  In the sense, not just, when I say, especially when I speak of family Constellation, I feel my family is here, my family.
• 4:03
  So even if wherever I walk, if I, I forget that I remember that they're all here.
• 4:09
  They are in my bones, in my cell.
• 4:10
  So when I remember that there is something in me that relaxes.
• 4:15
  So this idea of.
• 4:18
  Isolation or not belonging, it kind of shifts and it's not just with family.
• 4:24
  I feel, for me, it, as I keep expanding the circumference of my conscience from family, if I go further, I feel like that too is me.
• 4:34
  You know, it, it, it can go on and on and on, you know?
• 4:37
  So, so for me that has.
• 4:40
  I knew that because it is very much part of the yoga philosophy and everything, but in a way, in Constellation it has landed.
• 4:47
  I really felt that, that knowing landed in my body.
• 4:52
  Yeah, I know it at the level of my body now, which was missing.
• 4:56
  Before that way.
• 4:58
  So that is for me, constellation.
• 5:00
  How, how was it received in India?
• 5:02
  Because from my, is it my understanding that it's, it's still quite newish taking off?
• 5:08
  It's, it's quite newish, but the minute when we speak about ancestors and things, that's not very new.
• 5:14
  That's very much part of the land and you know, interconnections or.
• 5:19
  Uh, you know, those things happening and that being connected to this or if something happens in a family to look at which ancestor or who is wanting to be remembered, that is very much part of my growing up.
• 5:32
  But you would look at astrology or you look at divination to see that, but here in Constellation it's something more I feel, so I am finding language to bring this in the language that people I know understand it.
• 5:50
  Um, yeah, so that's, so I feel it's, it's taking off and I feel the language is very important in how we bring it.
• 5:58
  Yeah.
• 5:59
  Yeah.
• 6:00
  And do you, 'cause you have a multiple of other beautiful, um, gifts that you bring in your toolkit.
• 6:10
  Do you meld them with Constellation?
• 6:13
  Some people are very classical.
• 6:15
  Some people bring in their other.
• 6:17
  Modalities.
• 6:19
  I do bring in other modalities.
• 6:21
  I do bring other modalities in Constellation, and I bring Constellation into the other modalities, you know?
• 6:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:28
  So, uh, like I do a lot of work with women around, uh, connection like that.
• 6:32
  So there, I'm bringing in the, the field and the knowing field and to, uh, and even with my.
• 6:41
  Uh, compassionate inquiry work or trauma work.
• 6:44
  I think the gift of Constellation or systemic work is that I am seeing things in a much broader, so what is emerging as a conflict from the individual, the circle has become much bigger.
• 6:58
  Yeah.
• 6:58
  So that, I think Constellation really helps me to look at it in that way, that there is more here, you know?
• 7:06
  And, uh, so yeah.
• 7:08
  I had the pleasure of being in your workshop in Mexico when we were there in, gosh, when we were there October, November.
• 7:18
  It's gone by so fast already.
• 7:20
  I know.
• 7:21
  Yeah, it is.
• 7:22
  Yeah.
• 7:23
  Was it?
• 7:24
  No, it was it September.
• 7:26
  No, because I was in Indonesia in September.
• 7:28
  So end of October.
• 7:30
  End of October.
• 7:31
  Yeah.
• 7:31
  20.
• 7:31
  Yeah.
• 7:32
  End of October 25 through or end of October, November.
• 7:36
  I know.
• 7:36
  Time is like the way time has been moving, it's like, where's it gone?
• 7:41
  Where's time gone already?
• 7:43
  February time was really fast.
• 7:46
  I know.
• 7:46
  It's so fast.
• 7:48
  So fast.
• 7:49
  You said something in your workshop about.
• 7:52
  The umbilical the belly button.
• 7:54
  And I remember coming to talk to you afterwards because I have things that have been going on in that area and you told me.
• 8:02
  And I walked away going, wow, that's amazing information.
• 8:06
  And do you know what?
• 8:07
  It just went through the sieve and it totally vanished.
• 8:11
  I still can't remember what you said.
• 8:12
  'cause when you said it in the classroom, in the, in the workshop, I was like, wow, that's amazing.
• 8:17
  But it didn't stick.
• 8:18
  Right?
• 8:19
  And then so I came up to you afterwards and I asked you again, and you told me, you told me another layer of it and a deeper layer of it and it's like, wow, that makes so much sense.
• 8:28
  And you know what?
• 8:29
  It's still just stick.
• 8:32
  I don't even remember what I said now because so isn't it when you're working in the field sometimes it's like, uh, yeah, you, you answer what's there and what's relevant for what, for what's happening at that time.
• 8:45
  Um, yeah, I, the reason I ask is because there's a, there's a hernia in my belly button, but right beside it, and so it felt really relevant.
• 8:52
  It was something about coming in, going out anyway.
• 8:56
  I just found it fascinating that it wouldn't stick, so I figured that there must be a layer in there that I need to, to have a little look at at that.
• 9:04
  Yeah.
• 9:05
  If you feel to answer this one, how have you noticed the benefits of Constellation's ripple in your family system?
• 9:12
  Very, very beautiful question for me.
• 9:14
  What some of the words that have.
• 9:16
  No longer hold meanings or words like benefits or things like that because I feel like things come into order in a system and the order might look very different when things come into order in a system.
• 9:31
  And it's, and for me, in my system, uh, it is not about.
• 9:36
  Actually my, my family system as a whole, there has been more disruptions since constellations.
• 9:42
  Since constellations.
• 9:43
  Oh, I know.
• 9:44
  When you know these things.
• 9:45
  Exactly.
• 9:45
  I know.
• 9:46
  So what, what we may call, you know, it's so, but what, and it is not even disruptions.
• 9:52
  It is it, for me, I see it as I am beginning to see what is, which I was not seeing before.
• 10:02
  And, and I was paying a price for belonging when, so, but certainly when I see I can let that go and I am at ease and I, my heart is open, but the effect in the system are very different and that is their journey to make.
• 10:19
  But in my heart, certainly I feel that though there, there is all this love that I, I know and I have, but.
• 10:28
  The relationships are, there is distance.
• 10:31
  There's a lot of distance.
• 10:32
  But I felt, I feel that in Constellation, you know, there's so much effort done to keep things in this way, which puts pressure on everyone.
• 10:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:42
  And when suddenly the pressure is let go, everything just suddenly finds its place.
• 10:48
  But then there is gap.
• 10:49
  And in, in the sense that is what happened in my system.
• 10:52
  Suddenly I saw what was, what was not the truth.
• 10:58
  That suddenly became, yeah, but I could see the pain in everybody and all of that I suddenly saw, and I was not required to carry it or mend it or do anything about it.
• 11:11
  It was not mine.
• 11:12
  Yeah.
• 11:13
  Yeah.
• 11:13
  I think if I reflect on my journey with it in my family system.
• 11:18
  I think, you know, there was that unconscious seeing and feeling and knowing, 'cause I had, 'cause I had so many things going on in my awareness and that as, as a young one, but through the lens of constellations, being able to go, oh, that's not mine.
• 11:32
  I've been carrying it, or I've been entangled with it, or I've been holding that secret.
• 11:39
  Right.
• 11:39
  It's not mine.
• 11:39
  I can put it down.
• 11:41
  Right.
• 11:41
  It feels so good, doesn't it?
• 11:43
  It, it feels so good.
• 11:46
  It is so good.
• 11:49
  Yeah.
• 11:49
  It's a relief.
• 11:50
  Yeah.
• 11:52
  Yeah.
• 11:52
  Do you, so I think my body has changed since Constellation.
• 11:56
  Like can you talk a bit more about that?
• 11:58
  Like even, um, something in the way of my organization in my body has shifted.
• 12:04
  In the sense that I feel I am becoming more me.
• 12:09
  Something very unique about me.
• 12:12
  You know, my hair, I cut my hair for the first time in my Constellation workshop, which is there's nobody in my entire family where a woman wear woman has a short hair.
• 12:21
  It's not, yeah, it's not a tall seen or, you know, you lose, you lose belonging for that the get go.
• 12:30
  It's a big deal, but these are some things that I had to do.
• 12:34
  It just came like that and it released me and something I saw myself for the first time I felt.
• 12:42
  Uh, and so for me, I feel like even what I eat has changed.
• 12:46
  I can't explain that it is, and earlier I would go there because it would, the loyalty was so tight, but now that is not there, I can eat what I want.
• 12:55
  You know?
• 12:56
  I, so there's a, there's a whole reorganization I feel that has begun to happen.
• 13:03
  And I love that because you, because you're finding yourself right in a different way.
• 13:08
  And when you find yourself, when you're not carrying.
• 13:12
  Burdens or, um, repeating the patterns or, or whatever.
• 13:17
  Then it is like, well, oh my, I am different.
• 13:20
  My, I stand differently.
• 13:22
  I'm a little bit lighter or a bit taller.
• 13:25
  Yeah, I love that.
• 13:27
  And I, and I really did notice because I was aware that, um, that your short hair was very different to others in your culture.
• 13:36
  Mm. I thought, oh, very modern.
• 13:39
  It's beautiful.
• 13:39
  I love it.
• 13:40
  I love it.
• 13:41
  I remember for me, having a bit of an existential crisis once upon a time and saying to the hairdresser, cut it off, cut it all off, shave it, just'cause it felt like, at the time, I remember thinking, felt like if I let it all go, I can let go of some of the things that are attached to it.
• 14:00
  I didn't really understand and that was.
• 14:02
  That was probably one of the beginnings of my journey in this many, many years ago, through different layers of my journey.
• 14:09
  But so I get it, you know, like just letting the hair go.
• 14:14
  Yeah.
• 14:14
  Because I, I had always had really long hair and, and a lot of it.
• 14:18
  And so then I went really short, much short, even short, much shorter than this.
• 14:22
  And, uh, 'cause I was known as Tracy with the hair, you know, lots of hair, so I get it.
• 14:27
  Yeah.
• 14:28
  Beautiful.
• 14:28
  And, and you're an artist.
• 14:30
  Yes.
• 14:31
  I love.
• 14:32
  Yeah, I love creativity or the I impulse of creativity and so that, that whole thing in this way opened when I did my women's spirituality.
• 14:42
  I did a master's in women's spirituality and transfer some psychology, so that's when I think I, yeah, to create, not based on any concept, was just to let an intuitive map guide me that opened during that time.
• 14:59
  Yeah.
• 15:00
  Have you done any constellations with your artwork?
• 15:03
  Not really.
• 15:05
  Yeah.
• 15:06
  That's something that I explore a little bit and I, I'm often invite the field to show me another way to do something.
• 15:14
  How can I do that in a art exercise?
• 15:17
  And then I went on, might not get it straight away, but one day I'll be doing something.
• 15:22
  Like having a shower or something and boop, the idea pops in and I'll be like, where's my phone?
• 15:28
  Get out.
• 15:29
  Where's my phone?
• 15:29
  I gotta kind of write that down or tell my phone so that it takes a note for me, otherwise I lose it.
• 15:35
  It's like, it's like what we shared earlier, right?
• 15:38
  You shared some information with me.
• 15:40
  Neither of us can remember what it was, but I know it was really good information.
• 15:44
  I had an idea today listening to a podcast cards.
• 15:47
  Oh, I could do that.
• 15:47
  It's school.
• 15:48
  Oh, I could.
• 15:49
  That'd be a great constellation.
• 15:50
  It was around.
• 15:52
  Fascia something in the body, you know, the fascia system.
• 15:57
  And uh, and now I'm like, whereas I wish I'd written that one down 'cause it's, I might have to rewind my day.
• 16:05
  I, I, when you say that, you know how I didn't even associate, like when you're explaining the process, I'm realizing that I do, that I did something, uh, just, I had a workshop on Sunday.
• 16:18
  So something that came to me, I just wanted to show this to you, was, um, like I did this, I was just playing with paper and I started folding them like, you know, this is one paper and I start folding it, then the second fold, you know, um, and just keep folding it like that.
• 16:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:37
  The, the double, the, you know, the two binary kind of fold in when I did.
• 16:42
  It's, it's kind of like this, right?
• 16:44
  It opens and I can keep going on.
• 16:46
  But then when I, I started drawing it, actually, I'm doing an art now of that is like, it's like if I keep looking at it, it's like, if it's me, then this is, you know, my parent line.
• 16:58
  And the first fold I had my father, mother, the second fold I had the grandparent.
• 17:03
  And, and what was so is that.
• 17:07
  It can go on and on and on and on.
• 17:09
  And it, it's like this rays of light when they all, when I give place to all of them, they all flow and they all can flow through me.
• 17:18
  And it's like the sun, you know, with all, its great.
• 17:21
  I love that.
• 17:22
  Yeah.
• 17:22
  So we did that activity the other day in my, uh, the constellation I was hosting with everybody.
• 17:29
  I had them do that.
• 17:30
  It was very powerful for people to, so, you know, uh, when you said that, I, I'm realizing Oh yeah.
• 17:36
  Things like that sometimes happen and you do it and it has a, has a very powerful impact.
• 17:43
  I get, I get a lot of, um, downloads in the shower.
• 17:47
  I would say, save, save here, Tracy.
• 17:50
  Or, or, or the toilet, the bathroom.
• 17:52
  'cause it's like you just doing life and not, not trying to meditate, not trying to think about anything.
• 17:59
  Just, and then suddenly, poof, all these ideas come in.
• 18:03
  Wow.
• 18:05
  It's great.
• 18:05
  Yeah.
• 18:06
  And sometimes I plant the seed for myself, but it's very, very rarely does it come in that day.
• 18:12
  It'll come in when I'm at least expecting it.
• 18:14
  I'll get an answer for something.
• 18:16
  Yeah.
• 18:18
  Well that's great.
• 18:19
  So you had a workshop on the weekend, so you do do one-on-ones as well as um, and so individuals as well as workshops.
• 18:27
  I do individually, yes, I do one-on-one.
• 18:29
  I do, um, group workshops, and now I've also started doing workshops where, where I'm not doing a full constellation, but I'm doing the wisdom of constellation, the orders of love and conscience, and having people work with figures on their own because I feel that the wisdom I've received so much more.
• 18:50
  So much more from heading Girl's Wisdom as a reader's words and those, especially conscience.
• 18:57
  And that has really helped me integrate a lot of what has opened in my constellation.
• 19:02
  So I feel the wisdom is very powerful.
• 19:04
  So I bring that, so I'm doing workshops specifically for that, uh, workshop.
• 19:09
  And then people can come to the Constellation.
• 19:11
  Then, you know, they're also able to integrate that.
• 19:16
  Also receive more from that when they also know.
• 19:19
  So that is something.
• 19:20
  So this was like that, something like that that I did.
• 19:23
  So having gone, having been to Mexico to the International Systemic Constellation Association gathering, yeah.
• 19:31
  How would you say your co, or would you say there is a specific style that comes from India or, or that you have that you notice that others don't?
• 19:45
  Is there in, maybe there's something there.
• 19:49
  So what, what supported me at the Mexico Conference was that it gave me the impetus to go there.
• 19:56
  So since I've come from there, I have been able to bring more of the wisdom of this land into constellations.
• 20:05
  So I've been able to play with that.
• 20:07
  So it had come before in my work, uh, but I didn't know how to.
• 20:13
  Can I move with this?
• 20:14
  Can I, you know, I didn't know that.
• 20:15
  But when I went there, when I was, uh, in, uh, you know, uh, different constellations, nature constellation or, you know, and, um, elements constellation.
• 20:25
  Your constellation was so beautiful, Tracy, I still carry the, uh, echoes of it.
• 20:31
  Yeah.
• 20:32
  So I really suddenly I felt that, ah, everything can.
• 20:37
  Be, I can do it.
• 20:38
  I can bring it in.
• 20:40
  So that is something I am beginning to make more space for.
• 20:45
  Mm.
• 20:46
  And to allow that to tell when I do a constellation.
• 20:50
  So I am just opening my, uh, the field in that way.
• 20:54
  Yeah.
• 20:55
  I think it's, over the years, that's been my experience when I've gone to conferences, seeing the variety, like when I fir, when I was new-ish.
• 21:04
  Constellations and in New Zealand there wasn't a lot of people and there still isn't really.
• 21:10
  But there wasn't a lot of people doing it to be able to see, to be able to go and to witness other people constellating and different to my teacher.
• 21:19
  So, you know, I didn't have others to compare with and, and even then there was hardly anything on the internet.
• 21:27
  Gosh.
• 21:27
  She was scraping the scraping to get any information that has just boomed in the last, since COVID really, everyone went online.
• 21:37
  So, yeah, the beauty, the richness of attending, um, attending that conference was just, it really showed me for myself of where I, where I belonged.
• 21:48
  I felt like, oh yeah, I do have a place in this work.
• 21:51
  'cause I was like, I, I, I could feel that things were trying to come through that weren't quite what I'd been taught, um, because there was parts of my essence that wanted to, um, be able to do it my way.
• 22:03
  Because my teacher was German and she had learned in Germany, and I'm from New Zealand, so there's a little, the the language is a bit different on the translation and Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:14
  Thank you so much for sharing that, you know, that I'm beginning to welcome that opening of something new, which is unique to me, and yeah, to, for that, to, it has, it already came in my constellation, but I didn't know how to kind of.
• 22:29
  Fully own it.
• 22:31
  Uh, and so my teachers, I think, um, both Colette and Annie, from their guidance, I see that be fearless.
• 22:38
  It's okay.
• 22:39
  Just go there.
• 22:40
  What shows up in the field?
• 22:41
  You just go.
• 22:42
  So I'm, I'm allowing myself to have, to really allow that to go there, to look at things exactly as how it is being shown to me.
• 22:51
  Fantastic.
• 22:52
  Yeah.
• 22:52
  So Annie, who was in Mexico, she's your teacher.
• 22:56
  Yes, she is.
• 22:57
  Ah, beautiful, beautiful.
• 22:59
  I'm gonna be talking with her sometime.
• 23:02
  Okay.
• 23:03
  Do you have, maybe, I mean, you, you have your teachers, but do you have a favorite facilitator or facilitators that you follow?
• 23:11
  'cause you've read their books and you love them, or you've seen them, or how, how does In, in Constellation, yeah.
• 23:19
  Yeah.
• 23:20
  I, I love, um.
• 23:22
  Suzy Tucker's work.
• 23:24
  Uh, then, uh, Stefan Haner.
• 23:27
  I've not seen anybody in person, but I've worked with them online.
• 23:30
  I've seen them online.
• 23:31
  I've been Suzy, uh, online.
• 23:32
  We, uh, hosted a con, uh, we hosted a evening for Bert two years ago, uh, online for India for from Spana re uh, our training institute.
• 23:42
  And, um, uh, Suzy Tucker bot told Barbara they had come and it was the first time I.
• 23:49
  Interacted with them.
• 23:51
  Uh, but I was part of the Australian Sydney Day, uh, international conference that went just after COVID that happened.
• 23:59
  So there I got to experience Berthold and uh, I was part of their work and France.
• 24:05
  Rupert, I really love France, Rupert's work.
• 24:10
  Um, and Francesca, I really loved being part of Francesca's work.
• 24:16
  These are some, the people that I know, I'm still kind of.
• 24:20
  I feel I'm still quite new in the field.
• 24:23
  Yeah.
• 24:24
  There's a layer of the facilitators that is, that are starting to depart.
• 24:28
  Yeah.
• 24:28
  Right.
• 24:29
  Those that were in that space with Bert a lot in that, around the same age.
• 24:34
  I mean, he was 90 something when he died, passed over, died passed, whatever you wanna call it.
• 24:39
  And there is, there is quite a few that are getting there.
• 24:43
  That.
• 24:43
  Uh, so it's great to have that, the opportunities to see them, right?
• 24:47
  Like Anguin and Gala, uh, yeah.
• 24:51
  Those who had spent a lot of time with them, right?
• 24:55
  Yeah.
• 24:55
  Yes.
• 24:55
  And, and so, so our, my lineage with Annie and Colette.
• 25:00
  Queen and Annie, a lot of the work that they have brought in is their experience with birth.
• 25:06
  You know, so, so the way, so the, our training program also really holds that very close.
• 25:11
  So that's how I learned.
• 25:13
  So when I, so many times when I went.
• 25:16
  Other than the teachers I named, you know, I was certainly quite shocked that the field was not, it felt more like the mind leading the constellation.
• 25:25
  But so when I'm, when I see these teachers at work, I feel like, oh wow, there is something that I resonate.
• 25:32
  The, um, like how word always talks about when, when it's the spirit mind.
• 25:38
  It is simpler.
• 25:39
  It's fewer words.
• 25:41
  There's more spaciousness there is, you know, to, to really experience that.
• 25:47
  I, I find I hold that very dearly, uh, yeah.
• 25:50
  In the Yeah.
• 25:52
  That less, less talking in, in your constellations.
• 25:55
  Yeah.
• 25:55
  Yes.
• 25:56
  Yeah.
• 25:57
  Yeah.
• 25:57
  I, I, I appreciate that too.
• 26:00
  Yeah.
• 26:01
  Great.
• 26:02
  I'm just looking around for some inspiration.
• 26:04
  What other questions does the field want me to pop in here?
• 26:08
  Do you have any examples?
• 26:10
  You would be comfortable to share of work that obviously is not going to cross any confidentiality boundaries, but just some examples of the listeners and the viewers.
• 26:22
  Uh, some of the feedback I get is that they really love to hear the examples 'cause they sometimes for people it drops in Oh.
• 26:30
  That makes sense.
• 26:31
  That's a bit like my family or, uh, so maybe I, I will speak about something very specific to India.
• 26:37
  I dunno if people can maybe also relate to that.
• 26:39
  So in India we have this, uh, this energy, uh, which I think maybe most indigenous people also have of deities or energies connected to lineages.
• 26:50
  So they are usually, uh, seen as, uh, gods and goddesses, but they're actually very specific to.
• 26:57
  The lineage.
• 26:58
  One of the experiences that I saw in that was that it being connected to one of the mothers.
• 27:06
  So even when we say there is a goddess in the family, so every fa like my family lineage, has a goddess connected to the lineage.
• 27:14
  And often we don't even know how far back, but we don't even see that as a person.
• 27:19
  But in Constellation, I had a client who came, who was looking for that, that lineage was missing.
• 27:26
  Their family has been trying to figure out where, what is, what is this?
• 27:30
  What, what is their family deity?
• 27:32
  And it, the con in the constellation showed it to be, it's not just the deity, but it also showed the disruption.
• 27:40
  The representative fell in such a way as we brought in the deity.
• 27:47
  She fell, she injured herself, we had blood.
• 27:51
  Wow.
• 27:52
  It was, uh, and it, it somehow showed to a, a mother in the lineage, something that happened in the lineage.
• 28:01
  So the representative had to go and get a stitch.
• 28:04
  But the thing is, there is no scar.
• 28:06
  There's nothing, she doesn't even have any recollection of that afterwards.
• 28:10
  But for that person, the seeker that had a huge shift, just that remembrance had a huge shift.
• 28:21
  For him that he felt free.
• 28:23
  Like he didn't even need more constellations.
• 28:25
  Something for him that he just felt, uh, quite free from just that acknowledgement.
• 28:32
  But sometimes that acknowledgement, yeah, that re remembering of something that had happened in a system that, and he doesn't even the need that I don't need to seek that anymore.
• 28:43
  It is already there.
• 28:45
  These kind of things are, are difficult to experience, I feel if without constellation.
• 28:53
  Yeah.
• 28:54
  Things like that because it's so integral right.
• 28:57
  To that, to the family systems, gods and goddesses, is that what you're saying?
• 29:02
  Yes, indeed.
• 29:02
  Yeah.
• 29:02
  That it is a, a member of the family.
• 29:05
  Right?
• 29:05
  It's like, yes, that integral.
• 29:07
  Yeah.
• 29:08
  Yeah.
• 29:08
  So, so that is a work that I'm actually drawn to explore more because often when we just make it a deity.
• 29:14
  The, the actual person gets forgotten, you know?
• 29:19
  Yeah, yeah.
• 29:20
  So to uh, to, and we have so much of that in our land where things have become deity and gods, but the human, I feel there is a connection that has come from somewhere.
• 29:31
  Families would have many, would they not?
• 29:33
  If there's, 'cause we've got millions of ancestors and they don't all come from the same.
• 29:40
  Because, no, there's multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple.
• 29:45
  So you would have many deities or, or there's only a certain amount, and you usually, what I'm beginning to recognize is that maybe this ancestor was very key to the movement of life for that particular thread of life.
• 29:59
  Right?
• 30:01
  Yeah.
• 30:01
  You know, and so somewhere there was a reason to remember.
• 30:04
  It's not like, like, uh, when, um, uh, I, I connect this with, when Bird speaks about the shared eye.
• 30:10
  Though all are part of the system, the shared eye, also the PO is because something specific happened because of that particular ancestor that life moved in that way or shifted or you know, something like that.
• 30:25
  So I feel that, so that gets remembered in some way across generation that we have to remember this, we cannot forget this.
• 30:32
  We cannot forget this.
• 30:33
  But across generation then it.
• 30:35
  Keep shifting and shifting and it starts taking on a different form and yeah.
• 30:41
  So I feel, uh, yeah, so that's a great thing.
• 30:44
  There are so many ancestors.
• 30:46
  Yeah.
• 30:47
  'cause I guess you could go back your direct female, right?
• 30:50
  And your direct Mac wolf.
• 30:51
  T which female?
• 30:52
  Direct male.
• 30:54
  Yeah.
• 30:54
  But like you say, if there's something back in the lineage that has disconnected or shifted the trajectory or, or being Yes.
• 31:03
  Abandoned or something like that, then that needs to be brought in too, and that might be the only time that that needs to be seen.
• 31:11
  Right.
• 31:11
  It's just that, it's that lost ancestor, isn't it?
• 31:14
  It's the one that's the, I'd love to see that in action.
• 31:17
  Yes.
• 31:18
  Same here.
• 31:19
  I've just, I've just created a date for a workshop to explore.
• 31:22
  Just that.
• 31:25
  Let's see.
• 31:26
  Do you get a good mix of men and women, or is it majority women?
• 31:31
  Yeah, a lot of.
• 31:33
  More women than men for sure.
• 31:35
  Mm, same.
• 31:37
  Yeah.
• 31:38
  It's starting to, it's starting to grow.
• 31:40
  There's starting to be more men come along, but definitely much more women who are exploring this part of their journey.
• 31:49
  True Here, I I, I've also started getting more men, but still the number, if I do the proportion in any workshop, it's always, there are more women to men.
• 31:58
  Yeah.
• 31:59
  Do you have family, like children and partner.
• 32:02
  No, I, I was married no longer, so I'm divorced.
• 32:07
  Yeah.
• 32:07
  No children.
• 32:09
  Yeah.
• 32:09
  So I was gonna say, how, how are they seeing the effects?
• 32:13
  But that question stopped.
• 32:15
  But sometimes like I see, I see the work that I do.
• 32:18
  I have children and I had another grandchild born just the other day.
• 32:22
  Oh, congratulations.
• 32:24
  Yeah.
• 32:25
  And I also see the work that I do.
• 32:27
  Ripple out to my nieces Aus.
• 32:30
  Yeah.
• 32:31
  And things align up for them as well when their shifts happen.
• 32:35
  Yeah.
• 32:36
  Yeah.
• 32:36
  Because obviously right when I'm shifting something, there's shifts within my brothers and sisters, so it trickles down.
• 32:43
  I see that.
• 32:44
  I definitely see that with Constellation.
• 32:46
  How the ripples with, I'm very close to my sister, my parents actually in my heart, I'm close to all my uncles, aunts, everybody.
• 32:54
  Yeah.
• 32:55
  And I can see that.
• 32:57
  See how the ripples move across the family.
• 33:01
  When someone has had a constellation with you, is there any advice that you give them before they go home?
• 33:08
  Like what would be, what would be something that you would say to someone?
• 33:12
  For example?
• 33:12
  For example, I say to people, try not to think about it.
• 33:16
  Yes.
• 33:17
  Try not to go in and unpack what you've just experienced.
• 33:20
  So I say to them, think about.
• 33:23
  Colors or ice cream flavors or, or name the trees of the flowers.
• 33:28
  You know, when you catch yourself thinking about it.
• 33:30
  So is it, what do you do for your clients?
• 33:33
  Yeah, something very similar.
• 33:35
  I resonate with what you, what you just said, that to not analyze it, not think about it, don't take it to therapy.
• 33:42
  Uh, just let it go.
• 33:43
  And I also say to, uh, be present to dreams.
• 33:48
  It's possible that there might be motions that might just open in the coming days.
• 33:53
  A sudden memory might come, which you have no idea about.
• 33:58
  Or there might be emotions that may just open up.
• 34:01
  You are cooking and suddenly you feel, you know, a rush of emotions or there can be deep stillness.
• 34:07
  Uh, and I always, uh, I give the instructions also of, uh, drinking lots of water in the coming days.
• 34:14
  Be barefoot.
• 34:15
  Go and be with nature.
• 34:17
  Be closer to trees.
• 34:18
  Uh, uh, stay closer to nature.
• 34:22
  And um, yeah, and just allowing the body to settle.
• 34:27
  And I also now have started saying that do not make any decisions immediately based on whatever opened here.
• 34:35
  I'll give you also time.
• 34:36
  Yeah.
• 34:37
  That, you know, don't remember what happened here.
• 34:40
  Then maybe there is things that are opening.
• 34:42
  Yeah.
• 34:42
  Then it is, you can now go and see what opens up.
• 34:45
  Yeah.
• 34:46
  Yeah.
• 34:46
  I usually say, and I often say, 'cause I, we, 'cause we already live on.
• 34:50
  Two islands here, right?
• 34:52
  And well, there's three, well, one's so tiny that I say people to people go, go and get in the water, go and get, go into the ocean.
• 35:00
  Or we have quite a lot of lakes as well.
• 35:03
  So go and hop onto a, you know, or, or go and have a shower, particularly if it's been a really big session.
• 35:10
  There's been a lot of emotion released.
• 35:12
  But yeah, I'm very lucky and, and I have a waterfall just down the road.
• 35:16
  So go and stand at the bottom of the waterfall and just receive the ions that come from from that.
• 35:22
  So yeah, they do sometimes say that about water and Epsom salt if things, yeah, you can keep, soak your feet or have water with salt just to clear.
• 35:35
  Great, great.
• 35:36
  How would people, um, do you work online, festival, do you work, do.
• 35:41
  Yep.
• 35:42
  So how would people get hold of you if they wanted to have a session with you?
• 35:46
  They usually know through someone and they WhatsApp me, they have my number or they will message me on Insta.
• 35:54
  You're on Instagram and you're on Facebook?
• 35:57
  Yeah, but Facebook I don't access because it is connected to my Insta.
• 36:00
  So what I post on Insta comes on Facebook.
• 36:02
  So I never, I'm never going on Facebook and posting anything.
• 36:07
  Yeah.
• 36:07
  But, so if they wanted to find you for a, for a piece of work, they would go to Instagram or do you have a website?
• 36:13
  Yes, Ika kuk.com.
• 36:15
  Brilliant.
• 36:16
  Yeah.
• 36:16
  So is it, is it just constellations that you offer online or are there other things?
• 36:21
  Yes, I, I offer, I facilitate women's journeys.
• 36:26
  I do these 10 month journeys with women.
• 36:29
  Um, which is about really inquiring into, I call it women's spirituality journey because spirituality itself has become so male focused, shift that focus.
• 36:40
  So my journey is about women landing the sacred text being the body, yeah.
• 36:46
  Than being so and so finding that connection of landing.
• 36:50
  So those are journeys I facilitate.
• 36:52
  Then I also do a lot of work with trauma.
• 36:54
  So, you know, Dr. Gabor's, uh, compassionate Inquiry, I'm trained in that.
• 36:59
  So I do sessions based on that.
• 37:02
  And I'm also a trained yoga breathing meditation teacher to, uh, yoga lineage, though, even though I do, I may not do that particular work, but I do a lot of work with the yoga philosophy.
• 37:14
  So that is something and the land.
• 37:18
  So, so these are some different aspects that I, wonderful.
• 37:23
  So it's an eight month journey for women through women's spirituality.
• 37:28
  Yes.
• 37:28
  That's what you're saying?
• 37:29
  Yeah.
• 37:30
  Yes.
• 37:30
  So the names are like the, a journey that I post is called Walking the Labyrinth.
• 37:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:36
  Yeah.
• 37:36
  So it's a 10 month birthing journey, you know?
• 37:39
  Yeah.
• 37:40
  Like you birthing yourself.
• 37:41
  So, and is this based on.
• 37:45
  Philosophy or some other philosophies.
• 37:48
  So it actually brings, uh, women's wisdom from around the world.
• 37:52
  Mm.
• 37:53
  So this was part of my Women's Spirituality masters that I did in the, in California.
• 37:58
  And so the program, the school after that kind of got closed.
• 38:03
  So I bring a lot of the work because that is what brought me back to my ancestors.
• 38:08
  You know, um, so that is work I keep bringing back.
• 38:12
  So there are readings from women's, texts from around the world that women have written.
• 38:17
  So introduce this because it is not there.
• 38:20
  Uh, so we, it is not, women are not aware of it.
• 38:23
  So I bring a lot of this inquiry connection to moon, the body blood, uh, even archeology of.
• 38:31
  Sites and what have been ed to ecology and how much of Femin body is there in that which, and even narrative of body as.
• 38:41
  What has been found and discovered and have been on walls versus the body that's being sold through media.
• 38:48
  So, so it, it brings a lot of these aspects into that and grandmothers.
• 38:53
  And so what happens as a result of that is that get connected back to culture, to their own culture, their own ancestry, which has been shifting in India.
• 39:04
  Uh, so, uh, so they are able to find their connection back.
• 39:08
  They're able to find meaning behind ritual, which is all colonization, has really shifted all many of these narratives here.
• 39:16
  Yeah.
• 39:16
  So the old ways are kind of seen as, uh, you know, primitive and, but it is so intelligent.
• 39:25
  And so I bring, I'm bringing that back.
• 39:28
  Yeah.
• 39:29
  I was talking with, uh, the other day.
• 39:32
  She was saying 70 years you've been independent From British England.
• 39:38
  Yeah, from from the British.
• 39:40
  And that over that period of time.
• 39:42
  So how long did the British rule India?
• 39:45
  So the British ruled us for over 200 to 50 years.
• 39:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 39:50
  But even before the British, we were ruled by the moguls.
• 39:54
  And so that, so totally, if you see it's almost a thousand years.
• 39:58
  Wow.
• 39:59
  Yeah.
• 39:59
  So we have always been ruled by somebody from outside of this land was, and in such a big country.
• 40:05
  How did that happen?
• 40:06
  Yeah, yeah.
• 40:06
  It's, it's a country, it's a big country, but it is such a diverse country, so it is very easy to break us in some ways.
• 40:13
  Yeah.
• 40:14
  It is also very easy to conquer, I feel.
• 40:17
  That's how so many, so many conquerors have come and ruled this country again and again.
• 40:23
  And in some way the way India's geographical position is.
• 40:26
  We have had a lot of prosperity on this land because I think India itself has not gone and conquered others.
• 40:33
  So I think something around here, people are very happily existing or I don't know what, but there has been a lot of.
• 40:39
  Coming in to take and to be here and, and the land has just kept integrating that and alchemizing that.
• 40:47
  So we have such a, such a rich culture which has Yeah, already, yeah.
• 40:54
  Colonization has done a lot of damage, but in the, at the same time, there is a lot of.
• 41:00
  Gifts that come from it all too, right?
• 41:03
  When we can look at all of that,'cause we have that here, here in, we have, you know, the, the colonization journey as well.
• 41:12
  The story that goes with that, the pain that is still, still on the surface.
• 41:16
  So, but we wouldn't be who we are or where we are in the situations that we are if that hadn't happened, right?
• 41:23
  Yes.
• 41:23
  And just that I speak English the way I speak.
• 41:26
  All of that, that comes because of also of that colonization.
• 41:31
  Yeah, gifts.
• 41:33
  It has, its, uh, now I speak that more fluently than any of my other languages.
• 41:39
  In some ways, you know, if my grandparents, I would, if they were alive, they wouldn't speak English.
• 41:45
  So, you know, my great ancestors, they wouldn't know the language.
• 41:48
  So in some ways it, it is so I'm beginning to learn more of my language.
• 41:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 41:54
  Things like that.
• 41:55
  So it's, it's, it's all good.
• 41:56
  It's, it's, I think this is where.
• 41:59
  We are meant to be and move ahead.
• 42:01
  You know, this is all, this makes us all levels, the field across the world.
• 42:05
  I think we all have pain.
• 42:07
  We all, you know, it's, it's, I feel it is.
• 42:10
  So we begin from here.
• 42:12
  Yeah.
• 42:13
  Yeah.
• 42:13
  And as you were saying that, I was thinking I wouldn't have my grandchildren if it hadn't happened in India.
• 42:19
  'cause I have Indian grandchildren.
• 42:21
  Oh wow.
• 42:22
  I didn't know that.
• 42:23
  Mm. My daughter is married to a boy from Punjab.
• 42:28
  I have beautiful, beautiful Indian grandchildren, so yeah, that wouldn't have happened, right?
• 42:34
  Yeah.
• 42:35
  Well, I love the way that we, when you look through the lens of constellations, this is my, my story.
• 42:41
  When you look through the lens of constellations, it's hard to see the world the same as before because you can see things in such a different way.
• 42:51
  Yes.
• 42:52
  And the ability to include more.
• 42:55
  I think Constellation has really to whatever it is, to see it to, I, I, I, I love the stock of Bird where he says to say, yes, this is right exactly as it is.
• 43:07
  And then you expand and then you look at the resistance and that opens more and it just, I find that so beautiful.
• 43:14
  Yeah.
• 43:15
  Look at everyone, everything.
• 43:17
  That's what we need today, you know, to be able to.
• 43:21
  See each other that way.
• 43:22
  Yeah.
• 43:23
  Beautiful gift that he brought through in the remembrance of this work.
• 43:28
  Well, thank you so much for coming and chatting with me.
• 43:31
  It's been beautiful.
• 43:33
  I'd love sharing with you and I'm sure that, that this isn't the only time that we'll share.
• 43:37
  I have a real feeling that there'll be more, that who knows when or how, but, uh, I can feel that there is something else there for us.
• 43:46
  Thank you.
• 43:47
  Thanks for coming along.
• 43:49
  Thank you for listening.
• 43:50
  Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 43:55
  You'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 43:58
  That's Tracy with no e dot Cartwright and the or head over to my website, Tracy cartwright.co.nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 44:11
  So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.