Latest / Reclaiming Consciousness / Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Robyn's Story Part 2

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Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Robyn's Story Part 2 · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breathwork expert and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive in.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: So this week we have Robin's episode part two, The Top of the Hill.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we called it that because I started talking about a hill analogy in her first episode where I was like, okay, just take us gradually from like the bottom of the hill to the top of the hill where things gradually got worse and worse.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I know we left you with a cliffhanger in Robin's last episode.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're gonna finish it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't listened to the first part of her episode, I highly recommend doing that first, just because it'll just be a better listening experience.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying if you only listen to this one, it would be bad, but it would just be so much better if you listened to the first one first, which I think is like three episodes ago.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: In this final episode with Robin, she finishes telling her story and she spent 21 days or 24 days, I can't remember the exact number, with Betty from when they got to the retreat until finally she ended up going home.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was this psychodrama, like she calls it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So after they left Europe, they came back to the States.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then Robin had a whole other crazy psychodrama adventure with Betty that she's going to talk about in this part two Top of the Hill episode.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Buckle up.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I swear to God, you guys, as we do these interviews, it just gets weirder and weirder.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And wait, you see the other ones we have in store for you.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to give it away, but I think that we really do end up answering the question as to what the hell happened here.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: The last interview we did, which may be our last, we there might be one more person we're interviewing.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to figure that out, but we're either done or we have one more.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there are about four or five more episodes in the series for you guys.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the last one we just recorded with this woman, Audrey, who is incredible.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just love her so much.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Her episode was amazing.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And she's also a mental health professional.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the three of us at the end of her episode really kind of teased everything apart and looked at this from a psychological perspective, um, a spiritual perspective.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we came to a conclusion that I'm really excited to share in her episode.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: But this series has been so incredibly profound and healing for me and I know so many others because the reason why I did it is to not only process and heal, but also answer that question as to what the hell happened here.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because not only do I want to understand it for myself, but I also just want to be able to share it.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be able to teach about it, and I want to make sure that it becomes a prominent conversation in this space and in the world at large as to course of control, power differentials, abuse of power, manipulation, narcissism, and all of the above, and all of us really saying no and these type of situations not being the norm in our world anymore.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited for you to hear Robin's episode.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just a couple quick things before we hop into the episode.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have the Sacred Money Mind coming up.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've already done the Sacred Money Mind with me, I want to encourage you to hop in and do it again because it's only$33 right now.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna get access to the digital content where I go really deep into how to pinpoint your core wound, specifically your mother wound, and how it is affecting and impacting your relationship with money, especially if you are somebody who has done all the things, right?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I did so many spiritual energetic manifestation money work.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you, like none of it really did much for me.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't until I did this deeper inner child work around money and saw the way that I was projecting my birth story, my mother wound, my father wound onto my relationship with money that I was really able to make a change.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I see for so many of my clients.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then also you'll receive some tools and information as well as to how past life archetypal influences can impact your relationship with money as well, and how to heal and dissolve that.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because those are the two things that I see most prominent as affecting our relationship with money.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about manifestation or energy or any of these things that people say.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about your deeper relationship with yourself and the imprints that were created in you at a very young age and how you project that onto your relationship with money.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And when you heal that, things really start to shift.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what you'll learn in the sacred money mind.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get the entire digital program.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then also you're going to get five days of live telegram with me where I'll be sharing a couple more content drops of just new information that I want to teach and share.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then also there'll be an opportunity for QA for the last two or three days.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I haven't decided yet, but you will get to ask me direct questions about how to apply the information to your specific situation so that you can create a change because that's what I'm so passionate about.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to be able to take these tools and make them tangible and apply them to create a change in your life quickly.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what you will learn how to do with the sacred money mine.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to up level your relationship with money and start to be able to receive much more easily and just feel much more confident in your money situation and your knowing of your ability to bring in more and more amounts of money, then this is for you.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll link it below.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to have you.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sending you guys so much love and enjoy the episode with Robin.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we are here with Robin once again, and we are going to go into the last part of her story and the top of the hill, so to speak.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Since we've been using that analogy, we left off right before she was about to go on the last retreat that she ever went on with Betty to Croatia, which was like the pinnacle of the entire story.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we are going to talk all about that on this episode.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, Robin, welcome and thank you for being here to complete this saga.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: It truly is a saga.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: It truly is.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's the psychodrama.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to start by just saying objectively what happened.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Objectively, what happened is I went on this retreat that was meant to be 10 days.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: It ended after five days.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Most people went home, but I continued on the retreat after the retreat, I will say just very kindly, for a total of 24 days with Betty.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Most of those days were spent with Betty and a few other people.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the last about there was probably a five or six day span where I was by myself with Betty.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so that is something that I just want to say that's from an objective perspective, that is what happened.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: 24 days, I will call it that.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to go into exactly what happened because I'm just thinking back to when I spoke to you, which was like right on the heels of that, and just being in total shock with everything that you told me.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is a really important part of the story and is really like kind of the pinnacle of like us really exploring this topic and answering this question of what the hell happened here.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it would be actually good to start with you.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if we touched on this in the last one, of you actually making the decision to go because I know it wasn't something that you were immediately like, oh yes, I want to go.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't we start there?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So she announced the Croatia retreat sometime in the summer.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I at that point had been separated from my husband for several months.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was staying at one of my family members' cabins.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was having a lovely summertime with my family, having wine on the porch at 5 p.m.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: with my dad, and being able to go see my brother and those kinds of things.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a really lovely time in my life.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And meanwhile, I have Betty, who is my business coach.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm working with her on developing my business further.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've got my husband who is I'm estranged from, who we're back and forthing about do we get divorced or not.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that piece of the puzzle, I'll talk about it some other time because I'm not quite ready to get into my relationship stuff.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: But when she announced the retreat, she announced it like it was for the ancient ones and it was to reclaim original codes.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you will remember from our retreat in San Diego, where she started talking about these original codes, meaning like the emerald tablets and the original abilities that we as humans were supposed to have on this planet, things like telepathy and telekinesis and teleportation and those kinds of abilities.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So supernatural abilities.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: That tracks with my worldview.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I was cool with that.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: But there was something about the energetics of that retreat that were different and even the marketing of it, it was not marketed as a business retreat.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is for the ancient ones, and we are going to go to this place and reclaim our original gifts, was basically the setup for it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to go.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I don't even really think I decided a lease.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was just something I knew I was going to go.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I also knew that I had to hold the decision to what to do about my husband until after I got back from that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't have articulated it then, but there was something about that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I that part of our separation was I, it was almost like I had to go on this retreat.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And also, if I had been with my husband or been close with my family at the time or really talked things through with my family, everyone would have said, don't go.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't talk about it with anybody.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I simply made the decision to go.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I put down, it was a pretty pricey situation, but it was also 10 days and I made sense of it in my head that way.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And right after I put down my initial down payment, she messaged me and said, you know what, I'll split your payments into four more so it's easier for you.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that was nice, and I appreciated that to make it easier for me to go, which kind of, when you think back to Gia's story about how she slowballed her pricing and gave her a bunch of free stuff to be able to go to as well.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't know that was going on, but I thought it was nice of her to do that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I started planning to go, and I decided I would fly business class to Europe because I'm old and that's what I do now.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it was harder than shit to book my flight.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I couldn't get my flight booked.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking with one of my friends who was also at the retreat, and she said the same thing.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I'm really having a hard time to know what flight to take, and there's just a bunch of confusion around it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to me something like, and I'm afraid if I say anything to Betty, I'll get in trouble.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get yelled at and it won't be good.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, you know, and I kind of we talked through how to do things like you and something like you and I would do, right?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how are we gonna approach this and what are the energetics of it?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So meanwhile, I finally get on the phone with my airline and I say, This is what I need.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I lay down my however much four grand or whatever it was for the round trip business fair.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Even then, knowing that something was gonna shift and I wouldn't be coming home the way that I left.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, in hindsight, I should have just bought my one-way trip there and then figured it out on the way back.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've done that in the past, but for some reason I was like, nope, I'm this is what I'm doing.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be a grown-up, I'm gonna have my return flight.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, grown-ups have, even though in the past I would never have done something like that.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I like to fly by the seat of my pants.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what ended up happening anyway.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So time moves on, getting closer to the retreat.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think she had a gathering for the retreat members.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: There were 10 or 11 of us, and behind the scenes, she has said to me, I know I said I wanted 22 or 23, but I'm really happy with these 12 or 13 people who are going and you guys are gonna love each other.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she was really kind of loving us up and making us feel like safe and comfortable and everything as we were going.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that was fine.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: There was a little bit of an underpin of I'm not sure what's going to happen, because she was talking to me about what she was going to do after the retreat, which was she was to meet her husband in France.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted to go see the wild horses in the south of France.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted to do all of these other things as well.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that was cool.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, me with my wild horses.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love my wild horses, and that was important to me as well.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: She actually asked for a volunteer to help her fly back to the main airport in order because her husband was to meet her there, but she knew that she wouldn't be able to fly by herself because, as usual, she needed a handler.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: She was not able to move through an airport by herself.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: She needed somebody to be with her.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because of my background with her, you and I helped her leave Santa Fe.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I spent time with her after, we'll call it a walk-in experience.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I just kind of said, Well, I'll go.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was meant to fly back with her to the main airport.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's going to meet her husband, and then we're going to part ways and I would go on my way.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was the plan.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I arrived in Croatia the day before the retreat started, right before I left.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: This was in early September.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote my husband an email and I said, I'm leaving for Europe.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when I get back, I expect divorce papers to be in my inbox.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I am not willing to do any further work with you.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I really just shut things down.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: The problem with that was that twofold.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: One was that he and I had been actually talking and saying prayers together and actually having a pretty good reconnection over the summertime until it came time to go to Europe.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then I couldn't say it to his face.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I had to say it in an email.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I did.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the day before I left, I ended up doing that to just basically cut off all ties with him so that I could go to this and do this Europe thing.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a reason why you felt like you had to cut things off with him before you went?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just be very frank.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: She never liked my husband.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I would confide in her things about marriages are complicated and there are things that happen in marriages.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And just to sort through the details of it, because you and I both know that in business coaching, your personal life, especially in our world, affects your business.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the way it was always framed.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the closer I got to the retreat, I did feel a lot of pressure to end it and to get the paperwork going to get my settlement from the divorce.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was feeling really wobbly about that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there was this very, I'll say subtle yet insistent pressure to continue down that course.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was almost like she was saying, choose him or choose me.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I can attest to that because that was even happening before I left.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember, I remember having a conversation with you where I said I would never tell you whether or not to be with somebody or not.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: As a friend, because sometimes you and I will play the coaching role with each other to help each other, or we're just talking as friends.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember saying to you, as both of those things, as a friend and as a coach and as a mental health professional, like I would never tell you unless you told me this person has physically harmed me or I'm in danger, the typical things.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: But beyond that, I would never tell you whether or not you should be with somebody.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I also remember the feeling that was coming from her, which was shaming you for not moving more quickly down this path of separation and eventually divorce.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that was very clear.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that was something that at the end of the 24 days, that was one of those moments.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was just a pivotal moment for me, too, because that'll come back up at the end.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I did that with my husband.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Bless his heart.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, bless his heart.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I still have to tease this out, but interesting, I could write in an email that information.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: If I had to have a conversation with him, there's no way I would have been able to say any of that stuff to him.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's very interesting too.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know exactly what to make of that, but it just felt like a very different energy.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he even said that to me when he received that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: He said, it didn't even sound like you.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, my sisters, I've got twin sisters, you guys, who are a little bit younger than I am.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always out, I'm the one, I'm the free spirit, I'm the one who's always going to spiritual retreats and doing all the things.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they're used to that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: But they kept on asking me, who are you going with?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: What is it about?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was being very vague with them, with everybody in my life, really, because I just knew I didn't want to have the conversation about who was leading it or anything.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: They already had their spidey senses up about this person, about Betty.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a long time coming that they have their spidey senses up, but they trust me, they love me, and my life has been really good up until this point.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an adult human and I get to do what I want.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I get to Croatia early.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: She's already there with Gia.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I get a boxer message.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, meet us on the rooftop.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I go up to the rooftop, and immediately, immediately Betty starts in railing about somebody who's not at the retreat, who's encroaching, who's trying to, she used the word penetrate a lot.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's trying to penetrate.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: She came here first and she said she was going to prepare the land for us.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I never asked her to do that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And how dare she?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she is basically persona non grata.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I blocked her.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: You need to block her.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody needs to block her.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So immediately on entry, just like in Santa Fe and in San Diego, she had somebody outside the group who was causing problems.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So she created an immediate conflict and triangle, us versus them.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then remember, Gia talked about the drone that was over taking pictures, and suddenly that became that drone is penetrating and it's taking pictures of us and it's really bothering me, and so on.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So immediately this energy of we're being watched, or Betty would say, I'm being watched, I'm being followed.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: There are cameras everywhere watching me, watching us.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: That was the immediate entree into the retreat.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've never met somebody who blocks so many people.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like hilarious, actually.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so go on.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the beginning, and then what happens from there?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So most of the beginning of it was pretty normal.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have an opening gathering.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the weird thing is, listen, I've run retreats a bunch of times.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: You've run retreats.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't have private room for us.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't have a space where we could simply gather and have privacy.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Our gatherings were always in a public setting.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the first gathering that we have is she's welcoming all these people who have flown from Over the world to join her at this retreat in the corner of the restaurant on the rooftop.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I could kind of get it, but also not.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was weird.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I felt that way so much about both retreats that I went to because I was just like, we basically would meet in her hotel room, which was really uncomfortable.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there was no like meeting room.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and that's also why a lot of times when you do retreats, you do it at a retreat center or a hotel that hosts retreats normally.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like things that are geared towards that, like meals and space.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like nothing was thought out about the experience of the participants who are paying a shit ton of money to be there.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've hosted retreats in if I get a hotel room and it's small, I always have a suite so that the bedroom is separate and things like that.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that didn't bother me so much.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the in this case, we've come from around the world to meet you.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing this thing.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to be like this avatar being, and you're meeting in the back corner of a restaurant at a hotel.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was a little off-putting, I'll say, but I didn't hold judgment around it.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was just there, and you know me, I just go with things too.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably one of my toxic traits, is I just go.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's how I am too, which yes, I agree.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: But also when you're in it, you're just in it.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this is what we're doing.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that was fine-ish.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Then we're having to go around and say what we're wanting to create or how we're wanting to be different at the end.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And there's dishes clanging in the background and weight staff coming in and out.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just weird.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was not something that I would have ever expected.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would never do that personally.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And being who I am, being a refined and cultured and educated person that I wouldn't want for myself either or for people who I'm with.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was just there was a dissonance, I'll say, between how I was showing up, how others were showing up, and then how like the environment was just weird.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: At the beginning, when we were in the main city, there was just a lot of like quirky things that would happen.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: When I go on a retreat, I always say, everything counts.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Everything counts.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's no coincidences.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in this energy of the retreat.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to just be aware that everything counts.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so we can basically look from moment to moment, be in flow, and see interesting things that we might not have seen before in a different way and things like that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: But here was the problem is that we started touring some of the like the archaeological sites or the historical sites as part of the trip.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we had a tour guide, and Betty started challenging the tour guide about the veracity of what she was telling us, the veracity of the site itself.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was probably a fake, it was new, that's really weird.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why do they have all this scaffolding here?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on beneath the surface?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was always, she was always in conflict with somebody about something, always challenging whatever was going on as a visitor in a country.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: There are certain ways I believe that we are meant to be presenting ourselves and being good guests in a country.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: And she was definitely not a good guest in a country in the country, I will say that.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's just a very basic human 3D objective level.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: She was not a polite, kind guest in this country.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could totally see that.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it created a lot of discomfort for all of the retreat members as well, as well as the boots on the ground people who were from the country who were helping with the retreat who she had hired.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: The retreat coordinator, I'm sure, was very uncomfortable as well.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: But on we went.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now that you're talking about this, I'm remembering at one of the retreats, she would ask them to bring tea or whatever, like to the room.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then every time they'd knock on the door, she'd be like, see, they're pulling on our energy.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: See, they're trying to.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you fucking asked for this.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Go open the door and get it and move on with your life.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're not like out to get you.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're they're literally delivering the shit you ordered.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's no deeper than that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: The level of suspiciousness and Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And believe me, I'm always the one to look for the hidden meeting.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know that about me.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: But this is no more than like your shit is being delivered.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Open the door.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I will say that was different for me is I've traveled a lot.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I traveled a lot in Europe on my own when I was first starting my business.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I love to travel because travel is a place where I can have magical experiences with my guides, with people.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I meet people, I have connections.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's wonderful.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a wonderful experience.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have never had as many disruptions and just overt attacks on my psychology as I've had on these on these retreats that I've gone on with Betty.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And especially this one in Europe, being in a country where I don't speak the language and things like that, I still know how to navigate through a country like that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: But there's just a level of disruption that seems to accompany Betty wherever she goes.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I know what you mean.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Cause like to me, my favorite thing about traveling is that flow state that you get into where like the synchronicities happen.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: You like talk about something and then like you meet the person who tells you about it.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like in that, it's so magical.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like that thing was completely sucked out of all of these experiences.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because the level of suspiciousness then became that we were being tracked, we were being followed, we were being studied.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so any connection that we had became a subject of suspicion.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like now this person is out to get you.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or now this person has been sent here, has been tracking you, has been watching you, has been studying you, and there are no coincidences, there are no synchronicities, it's all planned out, and it's all to basically keep you from doing, keep you, keep me, keep her from doing her work in the world because nobody wants us here, is basically what the message was.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Super creepy, right?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really psychotic, actually.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're gonna talk about that because with our background, there's some stuff to talk about that.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll hold off on the what actually happened, I think.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because there are some there are some other things I want to get to.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually we leave the main city.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the main city was fine.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: We were there for a couple of days.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was beautiful, it was interesting to be in a different culture and to connect with people in the retreat who I had known online for a long time and but hadn't connected with them in person.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like those kinds of things were fine.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a little bit of a honeymoon phase, I'll say, even though there was the weird disruptions of, oh, we're being watched and there's cameras everywhere.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember at one point there was this elite guard from a government building who was marching past us as we were headed back to the hotel from something we were doing.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden, like they started like marching really high step, like goose stepping past us.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a lot of explanations for that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: But her explanation was that was a signal to her that they knew she was there and they were marking the moment they are letting her know that they knew she was there.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that stands out for me.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, I'm connecting with Gia and we're like clearing the water, and we're like talking about channeling and what we really want to create in our lives and all of those things.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm connecting with a couple of other people like Alicia.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's great in that way.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we get on the bus and we drive to the next location.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there was this one site that we went to early on after we leave the main city where really, really truly, I felt like Elise.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know exactly who I am.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know exactly what I am here for.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: No question.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: But at that same site, Betty had this moment where she became very dramatic, like she almost collapsed into and she became very distraught and was seemingly having this past life memory of being taken from that very spot.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, it's a tourist site, guys.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are people all over.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in that moment, of course, the spotlight is on her.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: The guide that was with us at the site, I'm sure, was just completely flummoxed by what do you do with that?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody in my group that I was with that I remember went up to her and said, Are you okay?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which I thought was interesting.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just watched it play out.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think I might have been embarrassed.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Were you embarrassed because there was like people around, and this woman that you're with is acting like a crazy person?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember feeling embarrassed, but I do remember feeling very disconnected from it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that usually happens when I am embarrassed.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't dissociated, but I was very, I went very objective with it.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, that happens.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Soon after that was when she asked one of the retreat members, who you and I both know she was at the San Diego retreat and got in trouble with Betty, got yelled at by Betty for not being able to decide something.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And bless her heart.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: So she says to this beautiful soul, you find us a place.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: You find us a place to meet.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: We have to gather.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: You find the place.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she's standing there and she's she's dear to me.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I just leaned in and I said, You can't make a wrong mistake, just find a place.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: She pretty quickly finds a place for us to gather that's off the trail.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: We gather, and that's when Betty reveals that this is the big reveal.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And Betty said to all of us as she's sitting around, we're sitting in a circle around her, and she says that she is the Christos.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the Christ drama, we talked about this with Alicia a little bit, and I mentioned there that she had said that a while ago, like around Easter time.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: She had made a comment that she was Christos, but I was assuming like we talk about the Christ consciousness and we talk about being creators and things like that.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it didn't at that time early on when she said that, I was like, okay, well, yes, and so am I.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: There were a couple of times I remember in her membership group where she would talk about the Christos energy or being the Christos, but she would extend it to everybody, we're all the Christos.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: But in that moment, it was different.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: When we're at this site, she's had this very dramatic, hysterical moment and announcing that this is the place where they took her.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is the place where she was taken and whatever happened to her, who knows, in that lifetime, or if it ever happened.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate, then she announced that she's the Christos and nobody says anything.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, just to like differentiate this.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: So this felt different than her saying in the past, oh, I'm the Christ energy or Christ consciousness or whatever.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's more like I'm the Messiah.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Interestingly, earlier on in working with her, and you'll remember this too, she would talk a lot about leaving the victim persecutor-rescuwer energy and that you're never a victim, nobody needs to be rescued, and so on.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Then suddenly, actually after Santa Fe, she started talking about we have to rescue her, we have to save her, we have to save this person.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, in contrast to what she was talking about from a leadership perspective, from a position of being the creator of your experiences, she had then dropped back into, I'm gonna save people, I'm here to save people.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in that moment at that historical site in Croatia, when she announces that she's the Christos, to your point, the Messiah.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to come back in this forum.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm Catholic.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So how did that how did that land for you?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was interesting because again, Elise, when I'm in retreats, especially spiritual retreats, I simply allow the retreat to unfold as it unfolds.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in that moment when she said this, I had this image run through my mind of all the Bible stories about Jesus and his 12 apostles.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there happened to be, I think, 12 of us there, actually, 13 including her.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I started to see some likenesses.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And at some point, I don't think it was then, no, it was because that was ambush, betrayal, infiltrators, and that kind of thing.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I started playing out the stories that I know about the Christ and his work on the planet, and so on.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there became a lot of parallels.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And also knowing that my beloved guide from the time I was a little girl is the mother of God, Mary the Mother of God.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's really played into my religious background, my religious training, my beliefs, and so on.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just let it be, and I didn't let it mean too much, but and in talking to the other people who were there, I don't think that there would be anybody who would say, that was really weird.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish I would have said something, but I didn't know what to say.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to say, too, having been obviously not at this retreat, but having been at other ones, you really don't want to be the one who's, oh, this is bullshit.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to like rein on the parade and be like the person who's what's this bitch talking about?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you just don't want to be that person because it like completely ruins the vibe.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think from that lens too, and also just like we've already established that everybody was scared of her anyway.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't really want to disagree.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And in that retreat space, you definitely don't want to be that person who's this is all bullshit, because we're on this experience.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it makes sense.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so too, because especially I'm in a foreign country, I don't speak the language, we're on a bus, we're hours from an airport.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: There were a lot of layers between that announcement and anybody having the audacity to say anything about it.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, after that moment, everybody broke up.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the big announcement.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was the big reveal.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone went their separate ways, went exploring the historical site.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know where Betty went.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I went off on my own because I'm like this mountain goat and I love to climb.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm climbing all over and I'm finding this really high point.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And Elise, it was a really cool moment because I'm looking out over this precipice and there's this co-dominant tree.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: So a codominant tree is a tree that has two major trunks coming out of it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this moment of looking at that tree, remembering my sister at the place where I was staying this summer has a co-dominant tree that is right in front of the deck where I was having wine every night and hanging out and meditating and everything.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I had this sense of connection and I had this feeling on a multidimensional level.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've been here before, and this is my original place.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really genuinely felt like this was home to me.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I really want to drive that point for just a minute because with all the nonsense that was going on, there were these sweet moments that I was able to be fully in my channel, that I was able to be fully and completely aware of exactly who I am and exactly what I am here to do.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, I remember Alicia came up behind me and she said, May I take your picture?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: You just look so lovely there.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have a picture of that moment.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that was such a special moment for me.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a very important moment for me as well, I think as a leader, to be able to be in that space, knowing that I was meant to be on that retreat, in spite of all of the other things that were going on with this with Betty.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: There was a reason that I was there.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that that was one of the big reasons I was there to really come home to myself and truly, truly recognize that I've been here before, that I think that this was the first time I was ever on the planet was in this space.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it makes total sense.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I also like it really just tracks with everything that we've been talking about because I think in talking to the other women who were there and also just reflecting on my own experience, there has always been these moments in these retreat experiences where you have these like big openings and shifts and stuff like that.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it makes total sense.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, Betty was never around when any of those moments happened.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which is funny.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's an important thing here.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: I want to flash forward to getting back to the farm at the very end.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was right around the time I talked to you and I was talking to Barb about it.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she asked me, she said, Were you drugged?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Were you surprised that she asked you that when she asked you that?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Were you taken aback or were you like, did it make sense with what you were describing?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: It made me reflect.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I will say too, my sister Kim said to me right after I got back, she said, Are you done with your drug-induced psychosis yet?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, it's too soon for that.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I'll probably think that's funny in a few months, but like right now, no.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't ever think that I was in psychosis, by the way.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: But let's go back to this drugging thing because there were two instances that I want to bring forward now.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's after, so now we're down off of that historical site and we're getting ready to meet at the bus.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly the retreat assistant, who is boots on the ground from that region, comes over to Betty and she hands her this bundle of leaves.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Betty is just beyond the moon, excited about them.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, she said, You will know what these mean to me.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: She said.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know what it was.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate, Betty seemed to, and she said to one of the retreat members who does like plant medicine and things like that, she said, Will you make us a tea out of these?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the retreat member said, Of course I will.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's have a tea ceremony.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: We decided to have a tea ceremony, so we go back to the hotel.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Again, not in a private space.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the lobby.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Dude over at the front desk is big and girthy and hanging out there.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting, too, because she's saying that everyone is out to get you, yet you're not having any private spaces, which is really weird.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was very bizarre.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we get back to the hotel.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Elise, these people are just so good in their hearts, benevolent, would never do anything to harm anybody.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is not anything with all of us.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have this benevolent spirit.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: We have this angelic spirit that we are here to do good work in the world.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so everything comes from that place of sincerity.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: So this retreat member creates this tea.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: We sit in the lobby with Dixie Cups and drink the tea.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: The tea tastes a little weird to me.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is, and I don't think to say, maybe I should look it up.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trusting, I'm in the group.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: It came from somebody who's known in the group, probably fine.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: So at some point, so this is the signal, though, is that things start to get fuzzy.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so when things start to get fuzzy for me, I lose track of time.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not quite clear on the order of things anymore.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: But at some point, around the time we had the tea, I was supposed to be signing some papers with a banker to proceed with my request that I had made to my husband that we would divide our assets and move on.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he wanted me to sign some papers.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was meant to be doing that.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had a full-blown meltdown in my room before I was meant to be signing these papers.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I called Michael and I was crying.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I just, it's too much for me.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can't handle this right now.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Can we please, please, please wait until I get back?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Please, I just I can't do this right now.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's just too much going on.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And bless his heart, Elise, my native New York husband, straightforward guy who I left and I still stand by.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: There was no other way for me to leave except the way that I did.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: All those months earlier, was the gentlest, most kind, loving man in that moment as I was having this meltdown.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me want to cry.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: He was just simply kind to me.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Of course, we'll wait until you get back.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was very vague in my email.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I shared with him where I was.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked for a couple of minutes.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: I get off the phone with him and I go to sleep.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: The whole like tea thing is it's a lot because we don't know what that was.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: And based on everything you're describing, who knows?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: What I do know is the next morning, a couple of the women reported that they had bad dreams the night before.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Gia, I think, said that she dreamed that she had been bitten by a snake.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I actually had two, I don't know what to call them, like almost puncture wounds on my arm the next day that just simply appeared out of nowhere, which was really weird.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Could never explain that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they stayed for quite a while.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're gone now.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: But even after I got back, when I was talking with one of my colleagues about this whole experience, I was able to show him those marks on my arm.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Just things like that that were unexplainable.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate, we all gathered together.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: We now are leaving and going to the next location.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I don't remember, like there are a lot of things, I suppose, that happened.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: I remember being on the bus with Betty, and she would just basically hold for hold court the whole time she was on the bus.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: She would talk a shit about not people in the room, but she became very suspicious of the retreat assistant and the retreat coordinator, the bus driver.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: She wouldn't go in through the front of the bus because the bus driver she felt like had bad vibes.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I kind of get that.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like when you're sensitive to energy, you can feel like maybe I want to avoid this person or that person, but he was he was a bus driver.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember there was a lot of sitting and listening to her.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm using air quotes here, channel.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: Channel truths, channel, you know, she never said she channeled perspective.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: She always said that she had channel truth.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing was that throughout that whole time where she was saying things and talking about people and talking about the way things are now in the world and so on, there was no sense of love.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: There was no sense of kindness, there was no sense of compassion.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was just very hard, critical, divisive talk, us versus them.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: It became very much us versus them.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we arrived finally at our hotel.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nice hotel.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: The retreat coordinator gets our keys.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a delay in our rooms because we've arrived a little bit earlier.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're all hanging out in the lobby.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: And for some reason, she's now convinced everybody that we need to protect her because as the Christos, she needs to be protected.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: So she's sitting with her back to the window and everybody's sitting around her.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of people in the lobby who don't really look like they're checking in, they're just there.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that was about.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: They could have been waiting for their rooms like you.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: They could have been.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: But she was pointing out, like, oh, there's somebody who's wearing two watches on one wrist that's a Freemason tell and things like that.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it did seem weird that a lot of people were talking on their phones, FaceTiming and things like that.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: But she was also suggesting that they were filming us and that everybody's watching us and they're here for her and so on.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we had to be very careful with our luggage because somebody was going to tamper with our luggage and things like that.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to say, like, when someone puts those ideas in your mind, it's very hard not to like see things through that lens.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even if you don't necessarily believe it, because that idea was seeded into your mind, you see it that way.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's how mind control works.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very important because now we're like on, we'll say day three or four of this retreat.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: So already there's not necessarily sleep deprivation, but there was definitely, you know, the time zone changes, the travel, the trauma that she exhibited at that historical site where everyone was taken aback by that.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: So there were a lot of things that were going on that were creating the conditions, I think, for all of us to be entertaining the possibility that this was a correct interpretation of how the world was actually working.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then also, I know we didn't really talk about like the food situation at all, but at this point, was there regular meals being had?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the day that I went back to my hotel and had that conversation with Michael, it was a day off from that meal wasn't provided.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: So people went out and got their own meals.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: I went out with some people and I just felt like I needed to go back and call him.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I left and I didn't have that, was my own sort of my own making of not having food that night.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: I probably had a granola bar or something like that.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the food situation, the inconsistent ability to eat regularly, not knowing when the next meal was going to come, even though it was planned on the itinerary.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: There was always a disruption.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: We can't eat here, she would say, because they've probably poisoned the food and that kind of thing.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it just became like this spin-up of everybody's out to get her.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: And since we are with her, we are involved, we are part of this too, and everybody needs to be on high alert, basically.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: So finally we get to our hotel room.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: But before we get there, I want to bring this forward.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm standing in the lobby, I've got a tank shop on.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: She comes over to me and she points to my shoulder and she said, What's this?
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: And on my shoulder, there was this little clear plastic square that was right here on my left shoulder.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know where it came from, don't know who put it there.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: I do know that she's the one who noticed it and then pulled it off and threw it away.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: And people were like, Oh my God, Robin had a patch on her.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a neurotoxin?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: Was I experiencing any kind of like weird side effects from it?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: But again, don't know.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to Barb's question at the end, were you drugged?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we get back to our rooms finally.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're not supposed to allow anybody to touch our luggage.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, this is bullshit.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't schlep my luggage.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: The hotel we were at was a complete maze.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was ridiculous finding a way.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we weren't allowed to have a bellman take us to our rooms or anything like that.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: So my roommate and I find our way.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: I finally asked the bellman, where's my room?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he shows me where the room is.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: He touches me.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: The people of this culture don't have really great personal space and do a lot of that stuff anyway, as I understand it now.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: So now, with that perspective, I understand that something like that would have been culturally appropriate.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: But under that, those circumstances, it felt invasive, I will say.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: I get into my room, try to lock the slider door.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's no lock on that door.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was instructed that I had to go find Betty.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I go over to Betty's room, knock on the door, and nobody's there.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: They've put Betty in this really weird spot too.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no view of the ocean or whatever, or the lake, or whatever water body we were on.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like in this back alley.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was very weird.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I wait there for a little while.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't show up.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: And finally I see another retreat member.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: I say, Where's Betty?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she's down in so-and-so's room.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: She knows that that was an ambush.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: That room was an ambush.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: They were coming to take her at night, and she's not safe there, and she has to go stay in somebody else's room.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just suffice to say, the crazy making continues of us against them, her being hunted, people wanting to sacrifice her on the blood moon, that kind of thing.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that paranoia continues.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Day one, we're supposed to go to another historical site, which is has a lot of apparent meaning to her, and she decides we're not going to go because they're definitely going to get her there.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually we get on the bus, we have to go to another location.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: This time we have to fly.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: We go to this next location.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the night where Alicia went into detail with this night about just the continued crazy making, no food, very limited access to water, high control, Betty's in charge.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember at one point, everyone was shuffling around.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're all in one hotel room with one whatever king-sized bed and a couch and 13 of us.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: So people are sitting on the floor and sitting on couches and trying to get comfortable, and we're up all night.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, Betty gets very angry and she's like, I cannot concentrate.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot, you're making me look like a cult leader, she said.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't you making yourself look that way?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate, I had a very, very clear sense that there were no human problems here.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: If I was gonna say something about it, I would say it was a psychodrama.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was happening on a spiritual or energetic plane, and it was playing out energetically.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was about frequency.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing about what was going on for me at that time was I was doing a lot of work.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing a lot of energy work.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing a lot of helping people manage their nervous system kind of work while Betty is over there basically saying that this is the night that they're gonna get her and sacrifice her and so on.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she's not the only one that they're after and so on.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of that, at 3 a.m., finally everything stops and there's no place to sleep.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: And for whatever reason, like some, I think a couple people left.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't leave.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: And one of my friends was laying on the floor on a pillow, and these floors were hard, like marble floors.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was cool, cool meaning cold.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh felt good on my body because I had been working like all night doing energy work.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: All night I was up doing energy work.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: So finally I lay down, sharing a pillow with my friend and fell asleep.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: Five or six in the morning, everybody starts rousing, and that's when Betty says, she's sitting very like small on the couch.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think when she's saying this, and she's like, I don't remember exactly what she said, but there was something about I can't keep you safe, and are we all in agreement that we're going to end the retreat?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody was like, yes.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: So people start making arrangements to fly out.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: And meanwhile, Betty's concerned about like how is she gonna get home?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: So she looks to me and she looks to Gia and a couple of other people to run support with her and help her figure out how she's gonna get home because she's unable to make these decisions on her own.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's unable to book her flights, she's unable to do these things because she's, you know, who she is or who she says she is.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I still have five more days before I'm expected back anywhere.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'll go.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fine with that.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Alicia came over to me and she said, I feel like I'm meant to go with you guys.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I can't answer that.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to answer that yourself.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Okay, I'll come.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: And one other person decided to go as well because we were all headed back into the same direction.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody makes their flights.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: We get on a bus that somebody had arranged, we get to the airport and we have to spend eight hours in the airport looking at people.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: And Betty made fun of everybody the whole day, all of the people.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: So before we get into this, I'm just curious when you agree to continue on with her, what is your inner dialogue at this point?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are you thinking, I don't want to do this, but I have to?
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are you thinking, oh, I want to do this?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: What is your feeling at this point?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you so exhausted that you don't even have a feeling?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so exhausted, I don't have a feeling.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I've already helped her down from Santa Fe.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I've been walking this path, adjacent path with her for the last year.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose in some ways I didn't feel like I had a choice.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know that sounds weird to say, but I'm exhausted.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even hungry.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think my thought was I'm going that direction anyway.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to get back to North America.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we may as well go this way.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: She had a person who worked in her company who lived in France.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, let's go there.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have safe harbor.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: She'll be able to help us.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be able to rest and regroup and then onward.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that seemed okay to me.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had Alicia and my other friend were with me as well.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: So there were three of us plus Betty.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point, like after we say goodbye to everybody, and everybody gets on their flights and leaves, then it's only the four of us.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: So now the group has gotten smaller.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: And Elise, we had planes, trains, and fucking automobiles to get to this location.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: And literally, like a bus, we're at a bus station.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: And again, exhaust I'm exhausted.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the most fit of any of them.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the strongest.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's got their luggage, their carry-on luggage.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm the one who's throwing luggage into buses and dragging shit onto trains because I'm the strong one.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate being the strong one.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad for my body.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, when I look back at that, I was so busy doing literally the heavy lifting of the trip that I didn't have the energy or the capacity to really like sit with my brain and reason about what was going on here.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then also I'm assuming when you were in route, she was like talking to you.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: Nonstop.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just like saying like the same stuff, same kind of stuff.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: There was just so much paranoia that, oh, we are the only humans on this flight.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone else are not human.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: They are reptilian.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: They are vampiric.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: They are out to get us.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're the only humans on the planet.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: The rest are these creatures that are maybe wearing human skin, but they're not human.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: In the moment, you're just listening.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're not I didn't have anything to fucking say.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally, I just feel like I was exhausted.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: One of the other people who was with us is very, very smart and strategic.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: So she started leaning on this other person for all of her strategy.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: So my job was not strategy.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: My and I use air quotes around job, my job was not the strategy.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: My job was the workhorse.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like we landed, we had a connector flight where we stayed overnight in Germany or something.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: And where is the hotel?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: The hotel was next to the airport.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm scanning to find like the signs to see where we walk because I could see that we had to walk to the hotel.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, you guys stay here.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna run.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: I literally, I probably ran for a mile, mile and a half back and forth to find the place so that other people could make be, it would be easier for other people to find their way so we didn't have to be wandering around in the dark trying to figure out.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just went by myself.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was constantly running, lifting, schlepping.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was my job.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like a nightmare.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: My body was able to do it, and I'm grateful for that.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand, as I said, there wasn't room for me to be in my rational, science-minded what is going on here self.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was just too busy making sure that everybody had their shit lifted onto the trains, and especially her, because she was very, we've already talked about her anorexia and seemingly very, very weak as well.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I started to feel like I was a servant.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, remember, objectively, I'm the client, objectively, I am the retreat member.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: And now suddenly, but I'm in this role of being of service to her.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we heard, I think, when we interviewed Alicia about when you got to this other location, whatever you want to say about that.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I think like the meat and the story here is also like after that, because we have not heard about after that.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually Alicia leaves us at the airport.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: She goes on her way.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's down to three of us the strategy, the workhorse, and Betty.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: And strategy says, I'll just call her strategy for the sake of it, because she's very, she's brilliant.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so we decide that we're gonna fly again, of course, and we're gonna leave Europe and now we're headed back to the US.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna hunker down at least for an overnight at Strategy's home base, get things sorted, and figure out how Betty's gonna get back to her husband in her country.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, meanwhile, Strategy and I find out that we have this shared love of mythology and we're trying to make sense of everything that's going on.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: And somehow Helen of Troy comes up, and Betty decides that she's like Helen of Troy.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Helen of Troy is the daughter of Zeus.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't be Christos and the daughter of Zeus because she's already at some point said that Jesus isn't real and Jesus is Zeus.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so now she's mixing her metaphors, and now things are getting really tangled up.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it was during the time of Hurricane Helene.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: So now she's convinced that Hurricane Helene is a calm to her, a message to her, because she is like Helen of Troy.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: It just gets at least at some point, it just gets crazier and crazier.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: Pick which thing you are.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are you fucking Jesus?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are you Helen of Troy?
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: What are you?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: Pick one.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here's the thing that I've come to realize is that she's not a creator, first of all.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's a replicator.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so anytime strategy or I would comment on something that was related to the mythology or whatever, she would hook into that and she would run with it.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: There was no rational explanation or understanding of what was going on.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: And she was afraid to go through immigration.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: So she was very happy to have us with her as she went through coming back into the US and so on.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: We get through Hurricane Helene and strategy, I love her.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she's exhausted and she needs to process and she's got to get back to work.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's all of this shit you got to do in your life.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: And my time's running short now because I'm at the end of my 10 days of retreat.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: And now I've got to be getting back.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yet we still got Betty with us.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what do we do next?
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: Betty and I leave.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's still afraid to fly back to her country.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: So Betty and I leave, and I'm like, okay, here's what we're gonna do.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go to the farm, we'll pick up my car, we'll fly to Kansas, we'll pick up my car, we'll go see my wild horses in my home state.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then at that point, maybe your husband can come and pick you up.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we do.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is when shit gets really weird.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: If we didn't think shit was weird yet, now shit's gonna just getting really weird.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: And meanwhile, I'm getting text messages from my sister Kim.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's my ride or die.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've got both my sisters are, but she's my person.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: And she's messaging me, are you okay?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you?
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: Both of my sisters have my location.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: I share my location with my sisters.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've done this for years.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: They always know where I am.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so Betty is aware that I'm getting these messages, and she's wanting now to monitor my messaging to my family.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, she's now becoming increasingly insistent that my whole family is out to get me.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: They don't love me.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: They are terrible, and including Barb and all the people on the farm and everybody.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: We can trust no one.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's a very, very small inner circle now.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: We can trust no one.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we fly to Kansas, we get to the farm, and my beloved farm family, Barb's not home, but my beloved farm family from across the street comes over one at a time to see how I'm doing.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: Betty won't make eye contact with them.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I want to get her out of there as soon as possible because I'm worried about them.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling like very torn between like Betty's way of viewing the world and what feels true to me, which is that these people are very, very concerned about me and wondering what's going on.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember Monica came over.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've known Monica since she was eight.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: She's in her 20s now.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I just told her, I said, listen, I said, I've got to help my friend get back home.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna take the car and I'm headed up to South Dakota and I'll keep in touch.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what I'm doing.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, I went up to my room, I packed some things, and Deanne came over.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: Betty wouldn't look at Deanne.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was just all very bizarre.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say this I found this out a couple weeks after I got back.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: My farm family is just so kind to me, and they weren't accusatory at all, but One of the things that they told me after we left, Deanne had gone into Barb's closet in her downstairs bedroom where she keeps all of her clothes.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Deanne said to me, This was weeks later, she said, Did you go into Barb's closet that day you were here?
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, I said I was just up in my room packing.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: She said, She went in there and it was a complete and utter disaster.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: She said somebody had gone in there and pulled all the shit off the shelves and basically just created chaos in Barb's closet.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: We know that there's only one creature who could have done that.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: So to create chaos in my friend's home, I didn't know that, of course, was one of the things that uh was on the back side of this that I didn't that I didn't realize until much later.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: My family is very forgiving and loving of me, but that had to feel like a huge violation.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, yeah.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: And she had pulled the shades in Barb's bedroom.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: There was just all this weird shit.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, Betty and I get in my car and start driving north.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: Our first stop is Soup Alls.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: My sisters live in Soup Balls.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't contact them.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: We get to the hotel where I always stay when I'm there.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a six-hour drive.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm driving the whole time.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm exhausted from all the other things.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm driving the whole time.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a really good driver.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: Betty's on the phone with her husband.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's both suspicious of him, but also trying to like keep him looped into where she is and how afraid she is.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we're on the run, we're on the move, that kind of energy.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody's vampires, and I'm afraid for my life and whatever.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: You think this is normal?
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was so fucked up.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: But at that point, I'm like, I don't know what else to do except go home.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I'm doing.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going back to my horses.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going back to my boots on the ground where I grew up because somehow I know that that's going to be the end.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we stop in Suitballs at the hotel, we get the hotel room.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: She's suspicious of the clerk and the whatever, but we get into the hotel and literally I lay down on the bed and fell asleep.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: Duh, why wouldn't I?
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've been exhausted and having to use all of my intellectual energy to pay attention as I'm driving and do all the things I needed to do to get us to soup all.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: So about three hours later, Betty starts nudging me.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've been poisoned, she says.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm totally groggy.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: She said, they they sent something through the vents.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've been poisoned.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: She said, You passed out right when you got here.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, fucking, I'm exhausted.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm exhausted.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: Fucking exhausted.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to go downstairs and get something to eat.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, we can't do that because we can't trust the food.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: So again, no food.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: No food.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: No sleep.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: No food.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: And my sisters and my brother-in-law are 15 minutes and I can't call them.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: So why did you feel like you couldn't call them?
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because she was telling you that they were out to get you.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what, Elise?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: I also felt, I suppose, a level of protectiveness of her.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really did want to help her get back to her husband.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that what I was experiencing with her, nobody would get for good reason.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: But that if I tried to get these two worlds to intersect, it wouldn't fucking work.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: It just wouldn't.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_00: Was there any part of you that was ever like, I just want to leave this bitch on the side of the road and get the hell out of here?
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think I just kept on wondering at what point is this going to be done.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because here's the other thing.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is important.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't going to bring this up, but I need to bring it up.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because this goes to what you're talking about.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, she was talking about how does she get a green card?
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: How does she become a citizen of the US so she can have some freedom to do whatever she wants to do?
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she discovers that the fastest way for her, somebody like her, to get a green card is to get married.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then somehow she decides that Robin's getting divorced.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just marry Robin.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what is your reaction to this?
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I'm not divorced.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, I was very aware that she was becoming increasingly interested in when my divorce was going to be final and when I could expect my settlement.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know what?
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love women, but I am not going to marry a woman and I'm not going to marry her.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't say anything.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the crazy, the level of crazy and threat that she energetically had was just so much.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I was handling a bomb.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you were just trying to make it not go off.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of it was me being very aware of the volatile situation I was in, wanting to be safe and also wanting to not make things worse.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that to me, as I say that out loud now and from hindsight, that to me is a sign of somebody who's dealing with somebody who's got a severe mental illness, a level of narcissism, something like that, that it sneaks up on you, I think.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Cause it went from just out there to just full on crazy.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm curious too, because I know we've talked about this a little bit, like if there's anything else you want to share about the things that she was saying to you, because I feel like that kind of escalated too from when you were on the retreat versus like when it was just the two of you and just like the things she was saying as far as making you feel alienated.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she kept on wanting to look at pictures of my family or have me show her pictures of my family and assess if they were human or if they were not human.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, she at that point decided that she had what she was calling full sight, so she could see everything.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it became very, I want to stop here for just a second and reflect something.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of years before that, I remember it was my birthday.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I did a birthday session with her, and she had commented on my family, like my immediate family, my siblings, and how she just found them to be so disrespectful of me.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like she didn't know, like she didn't know them from anybody.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So there was always this divisiveness with my family and then with Michael as well.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's a theme that we've seen.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And not just with me, but with others as well.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: But that for me, I think at that point, I knew a couple of things.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't ever feel like my family was mad at me or were gonna leave me or be anything other than loving to me.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I also felt like I was in this situation that I had to figure my way out of and I couldn't ask them for help.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want to make matters worse.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the next day we get up, she decides that in order to prevent any poisonings from happening again, we had to go and buy bottles of oxygen from the Walmart.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we do that, and then we get on the road again, and now we're driving across South Dakota to get to where I grew up, my stomping grounds, where I knew the location, I knew everything.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_01: My dad was there, my mom, my brother, my aunt, everybody was there.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: We check into this hotel that I used to go to when I was in college.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was like this, the fanciest hotel in town that was a regular brand.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was anything fancy, but it was a nice place.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we check in there.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And again, the level of suspiciousness, the level of divisiveness just continued to escalate.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't like, I don't think I can give you really any examples of that.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping that I'm conveying enough energetically for the crazy making, but just her stopping at the front desk and saying, we were poisoned the night before.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: What can you do to guarantee that we won't be poisoned here?
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so the engineer brought up a carbon monoxide detector, for example, to the room, things like that.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So meanwhile, business has to go on.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm starting to see clients again.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_01: We get a hotel suite, which I find and then she pays for.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in the suite and she's like, I could stay here forever.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to leave this suite ever.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, I gotta get the fuck home.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that was on a weekend.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then on I'd called down to the wild horse sanctuary and I asked, I said, can we come on Monday?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: That was September 30th.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the lady who I know I'd visited there twice, she's lovely.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Of course, come.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we get in the car on Monday morning.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_01: But before we do, I want to bring this forward.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: We were in a suite.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_01: She had left the bedroom at the part of the suite.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_01: She was out in the living room and I was still in the bedroom sleeping.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt I was awakened to this vortex of energy like coming at me.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, Gia said how she felt like she was being jumped on all night?
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I felt vortex of energy, like this grab of energy come forward.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that's what woke me up.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I go out there thinking like the house is on fire, and she's acting completely normal.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what even just happened?
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't ask her about it.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, and then it was Robin, will you braid my hair?
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Robin, will you do my makeup?
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Robin, will you make me tea?
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it was always me doing stuff for her.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mind to make people tea.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mind, I love to braid people's hair and do makeup and things like that.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it became not just an expectation, but a command, like a demand of me.
• 1:15:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: To feel really resentful of that.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And on top of that, here was the other shift that happened.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think somewhere when we were still in Europe, she began swearing.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And not just occasionally swearing, but literally streams of profanities coming out of her mouth, the C word, the F word, the MF word over and over and over and over again.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that morning, September 30th, she's like doing high kicks, like karate kind of moves somehow, and swearing, MF this and C that and whatever.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And finally I said, You have to stop swearing.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have to stop swearing.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_01: She immediately turned that on to me.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're the one who's judging the swearing.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who does that remind you of?
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm back on my heels, again, having to process another trauma that she decides that we're going to process.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I guess it reminds me of Michael.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_01: He never does streams of profanities at all.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's from New York, like he uses the F-word like it's an adjective.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_01: On the way to the equine place, I'm driving again.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm having to also process my trauma around Michael's swearing because she's decided that she's just the, what did she call herself?
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_01: The surrogate.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just the surrogate for you to process this, she says.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love how that completely absolves her behavior and it's all now about you.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_01: As I'm driving, now I'm having to process this.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then that tumbles into so-called trauma with my dad.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that now I'm separated from my dad as I'm driving.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she's saying, Oh, you're processing this also while you're driving.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing how well you're pro you're just processing everything so fast.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So she brings up trauma with your husband, trauma with your dad, and just kind of like throws it in your face as you're driving.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And from the streams of profanities that are coming out of her mouth at an unprecedented rate.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've never heard anything like it.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then from then on, there was this mocking that would happen.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that happened a lot.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: The mocking.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_01: She told me at one point on this saga, she said, everyone just thinks you're a joke for staying with me.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then after I asked her to stop swearing, it was like she would say something.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: She'd go, Oh, I'm sorry.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was that kind of energy of there was no appreciation, there was no remorse or anything like that.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: There was just very mocking, I will say.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we get to the horses.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love the horses.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_01: The horses love me.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: The Spanish herd is amazing.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there was, I couldn't find my horse, the one who picked me, Maeve.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But there was another one up on the hill who came right over to me.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_01: She was this cream-colored, she's also a Spanish from the Spanish herd, which are the ancient bloodline.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: She came right over to me.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: She had a white blaze on her face and she was cream-colored, beautiful horse, and came right over to me to say hello.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really meaningful to me.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And pretty soon here comes Betty.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And Betty is like, oh, this horse came over to me.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to spend some time with her.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, fucking, she didn't come over to you.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: She came to me, but I'm not gonna argue with you.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I leave.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_01: We leave the facility, drive back another hour and a half.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in the car with her again.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And this time I'm aware that I literally have to get something to the post office before it closes at 5:30.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have a like a bill I have to get out or something like that.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so by the time we get back to the hotel, I'm done.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I just said something to her like, you know what?
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I really need a break.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I really just need a break.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I need to take a nap.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I need to go to the post office.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've got some things I've got to get done.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And immediately she turns it into, oh yeah, everybody likes to hang out with me, with Betty, until things get tough.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then everybody just wants to leave me.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_01: You just go ahead.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_01: You just go ahead.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And she became very, very mean with me.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_01: You just go take your nap, she said.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then she said something like, The only person that she can count on is her.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_01: The best person to take care of herself is her.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then go take care of yourself.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_00: What the hell?
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I oh, I take a nap, she's not talking to me, and you know me, I don't like conflict.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I really did just need a break.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to her, I said, I don't want you to think I don't care about you.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I just literally need a break.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Don't you make this all about you?
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't about you.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it was that kind of energy.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I take my nap, I leave, I go to the post office, nobody's following me.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's following you.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is that was anyone trying to poison you?
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, nobody's trying to poison me.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're just average people at the post office that I used to go to when I was in college.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I get back and she was like, she was better, I guess.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, I'm gonna ask Gia if she will come and fly me home.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, great.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when Gia comes back into the picture.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_01: But meanwhile, she decides that she's gonna host this follow-up thing from the retreat with all of the remaining members of the retreat who have not been persona non grata, excommunicated from the group because they are infiltrators or whatever.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's probably like six of us on this call.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And Elise immediately upon starting the call, she started screaming at one of the people.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my God.
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, when I'm in that situation, I wish to this day, like I think, okay, if I hadn't been exhausted and all the things and it hadn't been 22 days or 21 days at this point, I probably would have slammed her computer down and shut her down.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we go through that whole retreat processing thing where she's basically telling everybody that she's gonna give them like free coaching for the rest of their lives because of all that we've been through together.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like anyone wants that.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Can we go back for a second?
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when you said she just started yelling at this person, you get on the call, and what happens?
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: She decides this person is She's very whole calculating.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know exactly who you are, I know exactly who you're involved with.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_01: She was insinuating that this person was owned by one of the global elite that she's been talking about, by the way, for four years, four or five years at this point, and that she is one of them and she's owned by them, and she's an infiltrator, and she needs to just get off the call.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it was not in this tone.
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was in like literally, I was worried that the hotel staff would have to come in and check because she was screaming so loud.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so what is the person doing who was receiving this screaming?
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_01: She's trying to keep on a happy face and smile, and and then at some point Betty says, get off the phone or get off the call, and then she just leaves and disappears.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then she turns her attention to another one and basically accuses her of being a Freemason puppet, and I don't know if she used the word puppet, but basically owned and out to get her in infiltrating, and that's not even your name.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she accuses her of all of these things again in a very, very volatile, loud voice.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what's going through your head at this time?
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like are you?
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was literally at that point, I'm dissociated.
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how better to describe it.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was like in trauma.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sitting there going, I don't have anything to say.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to say.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I wish that had I not been in my own trauma, I could have done something different, but I just couldn't.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, I get it.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So after that, her deciding to call Gia and me saying I need a break, and then that piece of the yelling at the other retreat members, that's when everything starts to wrap up.
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_01: But she's still talking about when is your divorce going to be final?
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_01: How much money are you expecting?
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't believe she has the nerve to ask you how much money you're expecting.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even have words for that.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing is that I found out later that already people from the retreat were asking for refunds.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure that she was hemorrhaging money.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would have asked for a refund too.
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_01: We all did.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_01: But even then, while I was still with her, she was not sharing that information with me.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I found that out later from somebody who, like immediately upon arriving back home, asked for a refund and got a refund.
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So already that was happening, right?
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so she was positioning all these people from the retreat as infiltrators and deceivers and all of these things.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And meanwhile, she's literally now in as far, I know I'm using the word literally a lot, but I think that from what I'm what I can glean, she was starting to hemorrhage money.
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so when Gia comes in, suddenly now she's asking Gia, we have to find ways to make more money.
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And can you activate more money codes for me and things like that?
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it became this like level of almost desperation.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_00: As someone who's proclaimed to make a shit ton of money, that's very interesting.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So flash forward to October 4th.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Gia and she have a plane ride back on October 5th.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm at the same time, I'm like dropping them at the airport and heading back to the farm.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So October 4th, we go back to the horse sanctuary.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And now we've got Gia with us.
• 1:25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the people there are very accommodating, kind, the whole thing.
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Interestingly, she never said anything about the owner of the equine place.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that she was convinced of was that that was she was meant to be the next steward of that place.
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_01: But she had tried to earlier that year tell me that I was meant to be the next steward of it.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be the steward of an equine place in the Southern Black Hills in South Dakota where there's nothing around.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just have to say that every animal place that we went to or that she went to, she said that about it.
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So who knows how to And thank you for asking really good questions and moving us through this because this is like I know it's a lot.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you go back with Gia.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_01: We go back with Gia to the horse sanctuary.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And now Betty is like, we have to find the horse that found me the other day.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we were all over with the owner, and she was showing us things.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: We were helping fix fence.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were just doing, we're there for the whole day, and we finally get to the Spanish herd, and I remember what this horse looks like.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And she doesn't.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so pretty soon I'm standing there and I'm braiding, like I braided Maeve's mane and I braided another.
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was, I love being with those horses.
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they just, I'm like one of the herd.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, this little cream colored with the white blaze on her face comes over to me and she's standing there.
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this is this is the horse.
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure?
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I'm like, yeah, I'm sure.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So at any rate, she gets to spend time with this horse.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure she had some thoughts about how the horse was being treated.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or she said at one point the horse was crying, the horse was not crying.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I know I'm just rolling my eyes at that point because at that point I'm getting pretty annoyed and jaded.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And also I'm like, I'm like ready for people to go home.
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to go home.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we leave there, we go back to the hotel.
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Again, there's another energy work thing that we have to do that Gia and I now are doing all of this energy work around clearing the way for her to be able to go home, or I don't even remember what the content was.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I was up moving energy.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really good at moving energy, and that's what she had me doing much of the time is moving energy.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say something before we close out this piece because one of the things that I noticed about what she was doing with me is that she was co opting some of my Most favorite things.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_01: At the Santa Fe retreat, she ended up with my favorite cowgirl shirt with the pearl snaps.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Oh, at the time, she said, I know you gifted this to me.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I didn't, but I wasn't going to be an asshole and say, No, I didn't.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, go ahead and take it.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this time in my car, I had kept a leather-banded bracelet.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful, soft, buttery, brown leather, and it's got a big chunk of turquoise in it, flat.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely gorgeous.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always kept it with me.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've had it for years, and I put it in the car for some reason.
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she found it and she wouldn't take it off.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, I just felt like I had to give that to her.
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And she would give me things in like a trade, but it was never a good trade.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was never something that was meaningful to me.
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was always in her advantage.
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say that because that was something that as I sit back and look at the nuances of this relationship and the message that was sent throughout the time I worked with her, that she wanted to work with receivers and people who are not takers and things like that.
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And yet the consciousness that I was dealing with was somebody who was a taker, somebody who was would spin shit up for the sake of spinning shit up, who dealt in fear and anxiety and paranoia.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's who I was dealing with.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So she could hold the surface together for a while, but who I got to know on a very deep level was somebody who was not who she held herself out to be at any point publicly.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:29:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's hard for me to say, but it's also I just had to bring that forward because I think that that's something when two people are in an exchange, whether it's energetic or with goods or services or whatever, I just kept on feeling like I was getting taken for a ride.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in more ways than one.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the next day, Gia and Betty say goodbye to me at the airport.
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_01: They get on the plane, they leave, and I drive.
• 1:30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm 12 hours from the farm, and I'm debating, or 11 hours, I guess.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm debating, do I stop in Sioux Falls or do I keep going?
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And at some point, I get a WhatsApp message.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Gian, I just really feel it's important for you to just drive straight through.
• 1:30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Don't stop.
• 1:30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was ready to get home.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not a hard drive, it just is long.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I literally drove all the way back to the farm that day.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the first person who met me at the farm was Monica's fiance, Kai.
• 1:30:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's sweet as can be.
• 1:30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I pulled up, the dogs first greeted me, and then he's standing on the front steps at the farm, and he just opens his arms to me and folds me into his arms.
• 1:31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And Barb wasn't back yet.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I forget where she was, but I was home at the farm and I was really pretty freaked out to stay there by myself.
• 1:31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I called Monica and I said, Can you guys come and spend the night with me?
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, sure.
• 1:31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So they did.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, I'm still in contact with Betty and Gia and a couple of the others who are still, there's still this sort of quote, inner circle that is somehow limping along as Betty makes her way back to her home.
• 1:31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Barb arrives home the next day.
• 1:31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say Barb has science eyes.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_01: So she's a spiritual person.
• 1:31:36
  SPEAKER_01: She went through her own spiritual journey.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_01: She got taken for a ride by a spiritual teacher, which is the point that we're making here is if it can happen to us, it can happen to anybody.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, she got home and she basically said, Robin, what happened?
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really vague about it.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And she just gave me science eyes.
• 1:31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like she didn't believe a word I had said.
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, I found out that she and my sisters had been back channeling, concerned about my privacy, concerned about my autonomy, but also concerned about my safety.
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so they had been doing all of this back-end investigation on who Betty was and what she was all about.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And my sister, Kim especially, had known she almost worked with Betty for a while early on, but Betty quickly, very quickly ended that and very cruelly, I will say, ended that opportunity for my sister.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not surprising.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so I was very vague with Barb and I told her a couple things.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really even remember what I told her, but I just looked at her and she had her science eyes and like she didn't believe a word that was coming out of my mouth.
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not that she didn't believe me, but she just knew that there was way more to the story that I wasn't saying.
• 1:32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And Betty had voice messaged me and said, How are things going?
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I shared, I talked to Michael a little bit and he was really supportive of me.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Barb's pretty suspicious about like everything that has happened.
• 1:32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And Betty responded right away and she said, What did you tell Barb?
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I told her a little bit about what I had shared that we had been like there was honestly, I don't remember what I said, but it was vague and it was high level, and it was like I was still in the in-between space of like, I don't want to piss Betty off.
• 1:33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yet I've got these people who love and care about me, and they they I owe them an explanation because they love and care about me.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I shared with Betty.
• 1:33:23
  SPEAKER_01: So here's when everything ended.
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready?
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we need a drum roll here.
• 1:33:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I got a message from Betty right after that, and she was cruel and harsh, and that venomous energy that we've talked about, the snake bite.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So here's a snake bite.
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_01: She said, You've been away from me for two days, and already, already you're talking to other people about what happened here.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know we can't trust them, she said.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then she went on to say that I shouldn't tell Barb anything else.
• 1:33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then she said, and I'll tell you what, if I decide to leave my husband, I'll I will not be a year later still talking about getting divorced.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it she went on both prongs.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was, how dare you tell Barb anything?
• 1:34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And also, by the way, you're taking too long to get divorced, and I'm never gonna be like that.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I listened to that and I put my phone down and I went downstairs and I told Barb everything.
• 1:34:20
  SPEAKER_00: What happened in your head, like in that moment?
• 1:34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Did you consciously decide to tell her everything, or did it just happen?
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or like what kind of clicked for you?
• 1:34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what clicked was when I heard Betty again mocking and criticizing me, after all I had fucking done for her to support her, to help her stay, quote, safe in whatever capacity I could after all.
• 1:34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's what she would come back with.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was the end.
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was the moment where I was like, I'm done.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_01: So then you told Barb everything, and what was Barb's reaction?
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing she asked was, Do you think you were drugged?
• 1:35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then Barb's a psychologist, and so she's thinking about things through the lens of psychology, more so than she's thinking about things through the lens of spirituality.
• 1:35:16
  SPEAKER_01: So she's like looking at objectively what happened.
• 1:35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she's the one who I started talking about the cult leader behaviors and the mind control, and then I brought you into that conversation as well.
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot to process through, as you can imagine.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_01: But the moment that I stood in my room, the God bless America room at the farm, and I heard her say those things to me, Betty say those things to me, criticizing me about my decision to share information with people who I live with about my experience, that was it.
• 1:35:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I left her a message the next day and I said, I stand by my decision.
• 1:35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't know what you want to do about me remaining in your, I called it her inner circle, because that's what she was calling it.
• 1:36:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I stand by my decision and I'm at a place right now where I'm gonna do what I do after any kind of experience that's similar to this, is I go back and I chop wood and I carry water.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I do the things that I need to do every single day in order to ground myself and process and so on.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And she came back again with a mocking, oh, you just go ahead and chop wood and carry water.
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then she said, I don't know what I'm gonna do about you.
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to hear from you for the rest of the week.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went down and told Barb more.
• 1:36:35
  SPEAKER_01: We kept on talking.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Then I wrote Betty an email.
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Barb and I had talked a lot about the ethics, our promise as healers, as therapists to do no harm.
• 1:36:50
  SPEAKER_01: And looking at the harm that this person had done to me, but to other people as well.
• 1:36:57
  SPEAKER_01: In my email, I said to her, I don't remember it, but I'll paraphrase, that I have very important ethical concerns about her treatment of myself and others.
• 1:37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I listed them, three or four of them.
• 1:37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I addressed some of the money stuff like I wanted out of my coaching contract.
• 1:37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think she had at that point already refunded or stopped my payments on the retreat.
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, at the end of it, I just basically said, I don't want to hear from you, leave me alone.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So essentially in that email, you were cutting all ties with her.
• 1:37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:37:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I also addressed my ethical concerns.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_01: That was something that came up early on in this with one of our colleagues who I had asked, I had said I'm happy to share.
• 1:37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she came back at me and she said, Did you talk to her about this?
• 1:37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't respond to her because I was pissed off that she would even ask that question, frankly.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_01: When you have an experience like that with mind control and trauma and all of those things, it's like asking the victim, Did you have a conversation with your victimizer?
• 1:38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have a conversation with your abuser about this?
• 1:38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or what did you do?
• 1:38:05
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point with that person, I just didn't respond.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think it is important to say, yeah, I did, I did share what my ethical concerns are, but I don't owe her anything else other than saying those, writing those things to her.
• 1:38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then on terms of what we're doing here, to go back to our original intention is to share our stories so that perhaps people can learn from what I've been through, what you were experiencing, and so on, in the hope that it doesn't happen to anybody else.
• 1:38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe at some point we decide that we're going to come forward with the who.
• 1:38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm not there yet.
• 1:38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I have been watching the vow on HBO Max, which is a CM cult.
• 1:38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I watched that.
• 1:38:54
  SPEAKER_01: To really understand like, was this full-blown cult?
• 1:38:57
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a cultish actor?
• 1:39:00
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 1:39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:39:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I feel like it was cult light.
• 1:39:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it was necessarily a full-blown cult, but I feel like the all the ingredients were there.
• 1:39:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it fell apart before it got to that point.
• 1:39:17
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I definitely think all the ingredients were there.
• 1:39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my intention too is to for myself and for you to explore what the hell happened here and make sense of it and try to answer that question, but also really for people to hear the story and understand what happened here.
• 1:39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's been really important for me, like I've said, and I know it's important for you too.
• 1:39:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is here's the thing that as I was reflecting on the end, and I want to talk, I appreciate everybody hanging in here with us as well, but she spent a lot of time talking about order and perfection.
• 1:40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And as I was going through that week of breaking ties, I was reflecting on that.
• 1:40:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, order and perfection, what is missing?
• 1:40:15
  SPEAKER_01: What is missing?
• 1:40:15
  SPEAKER_01: What is missing?
• 1:40:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's love.
• 1:40:17
  SPEAKER_01: God is love.
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you believe Christ is a Messiah or not, Christ is love.
• 1:40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there was no love.
• 1:40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing in this experience leads me to believe that she comes from love.
• 1:40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 1:40:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that is really for me one of the elements that I needed to bring forward because when I do my work, when you do your work, we come from love.
• 1:40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there are benevolent people like you and me, and our listeners, and other people who've been involved in those retreats and so on that we know that we call friends who are benevolent and we come from love and we want to do good.
• 1:40:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you put your trust in the wrong person.
• 1:41:02
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 1:41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:41:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll talk about what the hell happened on another episode, I think.
• 1:41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:41:08
  SPEAKER_01: But is there anything else that you wanted to bring to ask me before we end for today?
• 1:41:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think we covered everything.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think on the closing episode, we'll go over more of the hypotheses that we have around like what happened.
• 1:41:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it was important first and foremost to tell the story.
• 1:41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we've told the story, and now we can do our last part, which is just like our overall feelings as to what happened.
• 1:41:42
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do that on the last episode.
• 1:41:45
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I want to talk about on the next episode is what are we doing to heal?
• 1:41:50
  SPEAKER_01: So and so that it doesn't happen again, because it's now what, four months out?
• 1:41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I've recovered a lot, but there are still days, moments where I'm like, and I suppose bringing this forward and telling the story in this format brings it forward even more.
• 1:42:10
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a lot that went into healing and it took a village.
• 1:42:14
  SPEAKER_01: It took you and Andrea and my sisters and all of my dear, dear friends who love me to support me as I've gone through this.
• 1:42:24
  SPEAKER_01: My husband, oh my goodness, we are back together in Arizona.
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And there are all of these pieces on the other side of that experience that I've had to move through and understand and then integrate into my who I am and what I'm here for.
• 1:42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I will, I'll just end with this is that when I reflect on that whole journey, that moment at that historical site when I knew exactly who I am and exactly what I meant to do, that has stayed with me.
• 1:42:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that has stayed with me.
• 1:42:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I know for sure.
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that is so important.
• 1:43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I said that too.
• 1:43:05
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's a way where you go through things like this where maybe you get separated from yourself in a sense, but then it only serves to like really bring you back into yourself so much more deeply.
• 1:43:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally get that.
• 1:43:22
  SPEAKER_00: More to come.
• 1:43:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not at a place of forgiveness or gratitude for Betty at all.
• 1:43:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, me neither.
• 1:43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I need, but I do have a ton of gratitude for you and for uh the people who have supported me that I already mentioned.
• 1:43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I attribute a vast amount of my healing to having this beautiful network and community of people who love me.
• 1:43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing all of that, Robin, and more to come.
• 1:43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:43:54
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• 1:43:57
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• 1:44:01
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• 1:44:09
  SPEAKER_00: You can stay connected with me by following me on Instagram at Elise underscore breeds.
• 1:44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you download my Clear Trauma Cheat Sheet at elisebreeds.com.
• 1:44:18
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.