Latest / Naughty But Nice with Rob Shuter / Special Episode with Ben Widdicombe - the only gossip writer to have worked for Page Six, TMZ, and The New York Times.

Transcript

Special Episode with Ben Widdicombe - the only gossip writer to have worked for Page Six, TMZ, and The New York Times. · Naughty But Nice with Rob Shuter

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, and Lower Hello, Welcome to the Naughty but
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Night Show. It's a very special edition of the show today.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So we do our show Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. But
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: last week we did a special bonus show on Saturday.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Went across so well that I asked my friend Ben
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: would it come to join us today. Ben is a
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: gossip columnist, or maybe I should say a former gossip columnist,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: working at Page six tm Z, even having his own
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: column at the New York Daily News. He's also worked
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: for The Fancy Plants New York Times. His new book
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: is called gate Crasher, How I Helped the Rich Become
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Famous and Ruined the World. It's a great title. Betty there, Robert, Hello, Hello, Hellosa.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Congratulations on the book. It came out this week. I
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: can't believe I actually have a friend who has a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: book been It's awfully impressive and if you're a fan
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: of nord a bit nice gossip and who isn't, I
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: think that gate Crasher will be really right up your alley.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: And in fact, we get it one Robert Shooter. It
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: also pictures in the book. By the way, I've heard
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: about that. We'll get to that a little bit. Later
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and so been let's jump in straight with the show,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: because I've got so much to talk about. How did
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: all this start for you? How did you become one
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: of the premier gossip columnists and probably the media capital
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: of the world New York City? How did it start?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Completely by accident? I moved to New York City knowing nobody.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: My first job was literally selling hot dogs on the
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: street on the Upper West Side. Uh. And my partner
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: of the time was a fashion guy, and he had
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the idea that we should start a fashion gossip column
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: because it was the late nineties, the wild West of
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the Internet. There was nothing like that on the Internet
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: at all. So we were the first fashion gossip columnists. Uh.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And we gate gate crash fashion parties at night, which
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: is why I named my later column gate Crasher now
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: this book, And so we got all the scoop and
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: we enjoyed me in find of supermodels and a win
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: tour and the excesses of that scene, and so much
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: to my surprise, I became known as a gossap columnist,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and Page six at the New York Post took me
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: on as a contributor, and then later I got a
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: column at their competitor of the Daily News. So turned
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: turned out I was good at it. You are good.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: What do you think makes you good at this? I
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: think that, as you know, Robert, the accent is people
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: just you could say pineapple upside downcake, and people think, oh,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that sounds so smart, you know. I think it's it's
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: it's observational. You know yourself as a leading columnist, that
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: you just have to keep your eyes and your ears open.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: And really, most people, given half the chance we'll hang
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: themselves say that again, that's really good advice. I think
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: you gave it to me if you shut up for
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: long enough, and you can use this in your regular
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: life too. You don't have to be here gossip colories
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: if you shut up, which I find quite hard to do.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: But if you do shut up, people tell you everything.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And of course one of the keys is that in
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: New York City, how one becomes practice as gossip is
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: that you go to a lot of parties, although not
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: currently maybe even remember parties, and anytime the alcohol is flowing,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the tongues get loose, right, right, It's such a fun
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: world to be in. Why did you why did you know?
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Why did you end? Why did you stop? Doing so.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I did have a lot of fun, uh And it
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: was really interesting way to, especially as a foreigner, to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: experience American culture, this very glitsy world of film premiers
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: in Hollywood, stars and the clueless and wealthy. And I
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: had a problem. I had an editor at the Daily
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: News who whose ethics I question. And you know, there's
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: there's a longstanding tradition in tabloid and other media beating
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: up a story. You know, you take a story which
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: maybe not so salacious, but you because you have to
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: sell it to the readers, so you make it seem
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: like a lot bigger than it is. And I think
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: that and that that's fair enough. Many journalists do that,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: especially gossip reporters. But I felt someone that there was
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: someone in a position of power who I thought was
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: crossing the line and what was ethical. And I knew
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: that if I did that, it would be my name,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that would be mud and you know, not this person.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: So I got out of that. I did dip my
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: toe back into gossip when TMZ Out of the Blue
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: offered me the position of managing editor in Los Angeles,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So I did. I did jump back into into the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: gossip arena. Uh for for a few months to do that,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: and that was an interesting experience. But again after that,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I was happy to leave gossip. Do you miss it
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: a tool pen? Or you still get invited to the parties?
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: We will when the parties come back, But do you
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: miss it at all? Well? Sometimes, I for the last
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: two years before COVID hit New York City, I was
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the social columnist for the New York Times, so I
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: would do two week events a week for that, and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I did enjoy that. So I certainly enjoy observing and
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: commenting on the habits of the rich and famous. Currently,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I'm the editor in chief of Avenue Magazine, which is
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: an election ratulations. It's a long history magazine. It's been
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: around for a long timing. You've just taken. But that
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: must be fun. It is a lot of fun. Yes,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: of course, we live in remarkable times, so the events
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: that we all enjoy going to when no longer happening. Uh,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: And people have their wings clips, so there aren't the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: excesses that are fund to observe. But we do hope
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: that by the four things will move back to normal.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: What happened to the fashion business? So when you started
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: doing this bend and you were blogging before Paris Hilton,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Perez Hilton, myself and lots of others. You were one
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: of the first out there that fashion world was at
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: the peak of its sort of extravagance. I worked for
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Naomi Campbell for a while, so I knew the fashion
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: world world through her. There was a time when supermodels,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: we forget this, they were the biggest celebrities in the world.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: They were like the dinosaurs, like they devoured everything around them.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: They were the superstars. How did all that change? Sure,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that's true. I mean the nineties saw a confluence with
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: a number of different trends. The sort of glamors on
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: very athletic, great looking supermodels became popular. They were often
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: in mu Seek videos on MTV, So that was the
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: fact that their popularity. Uh, and a lot of the
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: girls represented this new thing called globalization that was coming in.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So someone like n Me, who was you know, of
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Caribbean stock and an English girl, um represented this combination
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: of cultures that that was becoming more common in the nineties.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: And she just seems so thrillingly modern. No one had
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: seen anyone like that know Me before, and in my
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: personal opinion, she she's the best model who has ever lived,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: because she does editor. It's a it's a real talent.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: So you didn't just turn up and look pretty like
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: she really knows how to had it had talented so
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: and of course it was also the peak of fashion advertising,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: so the magazines were so flushed with money that everyone
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: was a celebrity. That the editors like Anna Winter became
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: a celebrity, the designers like the SARChI, there were celebrities.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: The models were celebrities. And the first death knell of
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: that I think, you know, the biggest fashion party that
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I have went to because in their heyday in New York,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Fashion Week got as many celebrities to the shows as
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: a Hollywood premier. It was like the Oscars going to
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: a big show in New York. There could be two
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: dozen famous stars in any fashion show. And the biggest
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: party I went to was Mark Jacobs, uh, you know
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: when when he launched his Daisy fragrance and there were
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: people like Sara, Jessica Parker and Donald and Milannia were
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: there and just a lot of big nan actors, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: it was he spent extra money on that particular show
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: because he was launching a fragrance and that date was
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: September tenth, two thousand and one, and once, of course,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the next day the Twin Towers came down, and there
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: was never a party like that in the fashion world
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: ever again. And other factors like, for example, the Internet
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: taking away print advertising meant the magazines has smaller budgets,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: so they weren't the extravagant fashion shoots. And I've never
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: actually thought about it in those terms. It's following the money.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Like in All the President's Men, there was so much
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: money in as magazines because it costs sixty seventy maybe
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars to buy a page of advertising,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: so they just had the cash to do this. Barbara
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Walters once said to me, she said that whoever runs
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the gossip pages in the newspaper basically run the paper.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Did you agree? I do you know, in a media
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: ecosystem like New York City where there are many different
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: kind of magazines and TV shows and newspapers centered, the
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: first thing that everyone in that industry does in the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: mornings read the gossip columns because if you're if you're
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: a TV show producer on a morning show, you want
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: to know who you need to book the next day.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: They're probably in the gossip columns. Um, even the serious
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: magazines need to know who's hot, who's trending. Magazine editors
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: would look at the columns to see who they might
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: consider for their next cover. Start, and it all starts
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: for the gossips. It starts if the gossips gork at
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: this site that doesn't exist anymore, but it was a
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: terrific sign. It's tagline was Today's Yeah, today's gossip is
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: tomorrow's news, and I think that's really true. Explain to everybody, though,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: how does it work? How does the celebrity get into
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the gossip pages? Well, miss behavior is a preferred means.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: We hope that we catch them doing something very embarrassing.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: But but of course if they want to be singing
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: in a somewhat better light, it's very useful to hire
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a publicist, and a publicist might stage certain events. You know,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you might have to take after lunch. Um, you might
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: make sure your client was flattering ly photographed or in
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: a cute outfit on the streets of soho oh, a
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: good outfit always, it always works. In the summer, Bethany
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Frankel does this. They go to the beach and change
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: bikinis full times, and the paparazzi then can sell four
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: different pictures of them and it looks like they've been
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: at the beach or summer where they really do it
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: in like an hour. So changing clothes works, nor did.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: It's these dilemma celebrities have there because they do want
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to be in the columns. When I was working for
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: different stars, they all read the column on the first
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: thing they do when they wake up. They want to
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: be in them, but they sort of want to dictate
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: what you write about. Sure, and that's the twist. That's
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the game. You have to play the push in the pool.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: They want to be in them, but they want you
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: to say nice things. But really the only reason you
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: should be in the gossip page is if you've done
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: something naughty. So it's a little bit of back and forth.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: How does that work? Bend? Well? You know, as they say,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: gossip is just what people don't want you to know.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Every everything else as public relations. Um so, so sometimes
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the publicist will give you something really juicy about someone
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: who's not their client, any quick proquet in exchange for
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: a flattering item about their clients somewhere else. Um, you
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: actually Robert were involved in what I think is one
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: of the most significant stories of the last twenty years
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: in terms of shaping the culture. When you were working
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: with Paris Hilton and the New York Times are a
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: wonderfully flattering story about her in two thousand and four.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I think it was called Paris Ink, and it really
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it was about how Paris was making the point that
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: she wasn't just some bimbo who was who was lucking
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: into everything, but in fact, and she was a friend
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and the like, and she was an effect to see
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you of a multimillion dollar business called Paris Hilton, and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: that she made very mindful decisions. And I think that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the story was hugely influential and how people perceived her. Yeah,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I think those type of stories, we call them tone
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: setting stories when a celebrity has a story out there
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that changes everything for them. And I think a lot
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: of celebrities do this with big, glossy magazine covers. If
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: they want to get a big endorsement deal from a
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: cosmetic company, you try to get a cover of the
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Who Got w and then the cosmetic company then thinks
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: you're gorgeous and fabulous and sophisticated. With Paris we were
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: trying to get her away from people thinking she was
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: not very smart, which she clearly is. She's not She's
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: not a dummy, and so I know, I was actually
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: quite surprised that I pulled it off myself, but that
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Ni hook Times story was pretty wild. How much has
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Paris and the Kim changed the world of gossip and
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the world in general? Ben, Well, you know there should
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: be cultural and technological change just which have happened since
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century. The first one was
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: reality television, which I do think made a measurable dint
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: in how people behaved, especially young people. Um. I think
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: that they decided to perceive a value in drama and
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: playing up for attention. And then ten years after the
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: birth of reality TV, you've got social media, which doubled
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: down on the same I think not particularly useful impulse.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Uh And of course never never one's their own brand.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Now you don't need a reality television crew following you
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: around because you have that in your own pocket. And
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: what younger people may not appreciate is that Paris Hilton
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: originated many of these behaviors, and she was a legitimately
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: wealthy person who performed being rich in a very you know,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: over the top way. Um. I believe that she was
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: heavily influenced by rap culture in her her esthetic choices.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: So she was living with an important artistic movement there.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: And Um, Kim Kardashian copied every move in her Playboo
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and I've arguably exceeded her mentor yeah, I am. I
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: think that a lot of people don't realize Paris invented Kim.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: When I was working with Paris, she worked really hard.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: The myth on Paris that she wants out there is
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: that she just floats into a situation and it's just
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: outrageously wonderful. She used to work really hard behind the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: scenes to be terrific for ten or fifteen minutes at
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a party or a club, and I know a lot
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: of work went into it. And also to the Paris
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: that you would meet in the day to have a
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: business meeting with. Didn't have the blue contacts and she
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: had dark eyes. She didn't talk in that squeaky, squeaky
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: your heart voice. She spoke like this, She spoke really.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I was really impressed with film working with her. She
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: has a work ethic, she knew what she was doing,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and she really sort of invented this format. And I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: don't think she's jealous of Kim. I think she's quite
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: happy now she's made enough money. Let Kim sort of
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: carry on with that. And particularly now the housewives have
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: sort of taken over too. Is it because they're so
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: accessible ben Like as when I have to fill my
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: column on my website and I have no news. I
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: can't call Julia Robert, but I can get Jill Zarin
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: on the phone, so like it's sort of into that.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Do you think they movie star celebrities are jealous that
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: these new sort of reality stars have taken a bit
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: of their funder well, as you know, I think, as
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: someone who's covered the business from both sides, um, it
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: attracts a very uh more frankly an unstable personality, someone
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: who is very insecure but at the same time often
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: a narcissist, and that that volatile combination of neediness but
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: also jealousy. I think that probably movie stars may resent
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: reality stars because they are considered much lower caliber talents.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think that should, but but they may. Um
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And of course, if if you're a reality so reality
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: stars are now influences really are kind of the bottom
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: feeders of the culture, and it attracts a really shameless
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: personality who are prepared to feud and pull each other's
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: weaves off and flip tables on camera just to compete
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: in the attention economy. I couldn't do it. Could you
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: offered the reality show? I could? I couldn't. I mean,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: as as much as I enjoyed the spotlight and being ridiculous,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I'm very aware of how ridiculous I am. I don't
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: know about that reality business though, and meeting them off
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the shows too. Generally there's always the exception they're not
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: very nice people. No, I don't. I'm not friends with them.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I'm really not This wanted two. I do like and know,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I've got their phone numbers, but I'm not really friends
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: with them. Then are you with with anyone? Oh? Absolutely not.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think I had a single selfing with the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: celebrity in twenty years of doing this. But remember, we're
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: only tools for them. I mean, they don't really want
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: to be friends with us. They want to use us
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: for how we can promote them. And are you aware
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: of that? So when people were nice to you, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I've seen it. I've been to events where people come
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: over to you and chatt and hello, big smiles on
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: your face. You're aware that after your column inches it
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: sounds a little dirty. I didn't mean it to sound
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: like that, but you know what I mean, a good grief.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Well I didn't. I mean, I wasn't seeking friendships with them.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, to me, they were pray essentially. But you know,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I think we won't say any names, but there are
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: people that we know around the scene who really just
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: desperately wanted to be in that in that scene, and
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: their definition of success is being pals with these people.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: And that's that's the selfie culture, which I know you
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: don't indulge in either, But yeah, I don't. I don't
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: get it. I mean I sort of the first time
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you see them. It's awfully exciting to see somebody like
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Teresa Judici. When I first met her, oh I staring
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: at about eyes with the biggest saucers. I can't believe it,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: But I don't really want to be friends with her. Now,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: you do tell a story in the book that that
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I think is so sweet. There are certain two celebrities
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I think they're twins who actually stole your heart, even you.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: You mean old devil. They melted your heart. Who are
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the Alston Twins? I have to say, in the whole
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: celebrity barnyard, the only people I ever had sympathy for
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the Alston twins because number one they became so famous
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: in their teenage is that I think it actually threatened
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: their mental health because no one would leave them alone.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: But they never opted into this. They were literally cast
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: as babies in the show Full House, which made them famous.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Um and then there they were managed by older people
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and they did a number of you know, very g
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: rated TV movies as they got older. At no point
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: where they really ever given a choice. Maybe when they
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: by the time they got to college age, I think
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: they realized they were ready to step away and reinvent,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: but they were hounded by the press, you know, including
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: me frankly, who were and then you know, they did
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a few naughty things that we reported on. But those
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: two women never opted in. You know, they were brought
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: up in the business, and to their credit, when they
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: became old enough to make their own decisions, they became
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: incredibly talented fashion designers. So I just had nothing with
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: respect and honor. Who drives you crazy? Who's your least
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: favorite good lord, um, you know awful. Not the biggest stars,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: but people like Janice Dickinson remember her like she was God.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: She would just never leave you, like a company's love.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Used to call up and talk for hours. And don't
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: get me wrong, it was kind of fun because she
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: was such such an appealing nut job. But it's like,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: oh God, put the phone down, really, girl. I have
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to ask you that we're running out of time a
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: little bit, but I have to ask you too about
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Were not a political show. We don't get
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: involved in that. But Donald Trump was a major celebrity
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: here in New York City. You've met him many times.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: I think you went to didn't you get to one
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: of his wive's wedding? I went to Havannah's last wedding
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: at marl Lao, Yes, and Donald was telling did he
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: give her away? Or the sudden sons gave her away? Um?
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And the funny I mean Donald and Havana actually stayed close.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I think when Marila Maples, who broke up that marriage,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: was still married to Donald, that was tough. But once
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: she was out of the picture, you know, because they
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: were good parents for those kids. I think now that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the kids are too controversial for anyone to like them.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: But before Donald became president, they were quite well liked
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: in New York City, especially Avanka, who was just very intelligent,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: funny woman. But at the time she people liked her.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Uh and Um. The funny thing about that wedding at
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Mara Lago, Milania was Barren had just been born. Milania
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: was upstairs like a Disney villainais um. Donald was watching
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: everything from the terrace with his arms crossed. Is as
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Ivanna married, the sky called Rossano, who was you know,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Italian of questionable background, and there had been a domestic
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: disturbance at the house just before they got married, and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the police were called and Rosanna was cuffed. I don't
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: know what happened, but Rosanno was was in handcuffs and
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: then he was unconfident and they smoothed it over and
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the wedding went ahead. But Don Jr. Who gave away
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: his mother, threatened to kill him in his in his speech,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: he delivered the father of the Bride speech, and he
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: told Rosano, and I presume he was referring to to
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: whatever the domestic disturbance was about. That he reminded his
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: new stepfather that the Trump family was in construction. He
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: had a forty five and a shuttle, and he knew
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: how to lose. He knew how to lose people. So
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: happy wedding mommy. Congratulations, all lift your gas and the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: terms we should lift our glasses. Ben, congratulations, gate Crasher,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: how I helped the rich become famous and ruined the world.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: It's all your fault, Ben Wintickum, It's all your fault. Congratulations.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Are you thrilled? Does it feel different now you're an author?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know how different it feels, but I'm very
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: glad the book was out. It was two years coming.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: And it's a lot of work, isn't it. It's an
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: enormous amount of work to do these books. I know
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: so many people, including myself, who think I'd love to
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: have a book, and then you have to sit down
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: and write the damn thing. That's that's it's it's a
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: lot of work. Congratulations, Everybody pick up a copy. It's
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: full of juicy, juicy gossip. We didn't give too much
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: away hopefully on the show. Lots of celebrities that you
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: know and love behind the scenes, and lots of scoop
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: too on what it's actually like to be a fabulous
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: goss economists, which Ben you will always be. Thank you,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: my friend. It's not even nice with