Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 15: Toxic Beauty and the Traditional Beast

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Ep. 15: Toxic Beauty and the Traditional Beast · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:00
  Welcome to the We Are More podcast.
• 0:13
  My name is Alyssa.
• 0:15
  And my name is Bri.
• 0:16
  We are two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.
• 0:20
  We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His
• 0:25
  word.
• 0:26
  And apparently that's controversial.
• 0:28
  Get comfy.
• 0:30
  Oh my gosh, you started recording.
• 0:36
  Which one am I?
• 0:39
  The bottom one?
• 0:40
  Yeah, you're the bottom.
• 0:41
  It's because I'm second born.
• 0:43
  Yeah, that's why.
• 0:44
  But you did sit in the big chair today.
• 0:46
  We should probably say hello so that any of this counts.
• 0:49
  Hello!
• 0:50
  Baby, can't you see?
• 0:52
  Oh no.
• 0:53
  All right, Bri, read your line.
• 0:56
  Baby, can't you see?
• 0:58
  We're gonna get copyright infringemented.
• 1:02
  You know that I'm toxic.
• 1:04
  I do know that about you actually.
• 1:06
  Like sludge?
• 1:07
  Yeah.
• 1:08
  I actually imagine the creature from...
• 1:14
  What was that movie with Robin Williams?
• 1:16
  Flubber.
• 1:17
  Yes, I envisioned Flubber.
• 1:19
  I thought you were gonna talk like the creature from the something lagoon.
• 1:23
  Dark Lagoon?
• 1:24
  Black Lagoon.
• 1:25
  Black Lagoon.
• 1:26
  You mean that?
• 1:27
  I don't think I've ever seen that movie.
• 1:28
  I've barely seen Flubber.
• 1:30
  Mom wouldn't let us watch Flubber when we were kids.
• 1:32
  I don't know why.
• 1:33
  I don't either.
• 1:34
  Because I recently watched it, not recently, with it like a couple years ago.
• 1:38
  And it's incredibly boring.
• 1:41
  Am I gonna make people mad about that?
• 1:42
  Probably because people love Robin Williams.
• 1:44
  I love Robin Williams, but I didn't like Flubber.
• 1:47
  I'm sorry.
• 1:48
  So today...
• 1:49
  I feel like I start every episode with...
• 1:51
  So today...
• 1:52
  So today...
• 1:54
  So today we have given up on telling you guys which episode number it is at the beginning
• 1:58
  of the episode.
• 1:59
  We have no idea.
• 2:00
  We literally have no clue.
• 2:02
  And what's actually more frustrating is sometimes I'll be like, Alyssa, what episode just came
• 2:06
  out?
• 2:07
  And she's like, 12.
• 2:09
  That's not what I mean.
• 2:11
  I mean, what did we talk about?
• 2:13
  I have no idea.
• 2:14
  But the problem is, we'll sit down to record and we'll start recording and we'll be like,
• 2:19
  oh yeah, hey, this is episode 13.
• 2:21
  But we're not used to recording every week yet.
• 2:25
  And it's not episode 13.
• 2:27
  It's episode something totally different.
• 2:28
  I have no idea.
• 2:30
  And then I have to cut that whole section.
• 2:32
  Yeah, we're done with that.
• 2:33
  Today, we're talking about toxic femininity.
• 2:35
  Yes, today on this, the episode of today.
• 2:38
  On this, the day of my daughter's wedding.
• 2:40
  What is that from?
• 2:42
  On this, the day of my daughter's wedding.
• 2:43
  I think it's The Godfather.
• 2:45
  I've never seen that.
• 2:46
  I've never seen that.
• 2:47
  So we're just quoting randomness now.
• 2:48
  Yeah.
• 2:49
  Okay, good.
• 2:50
  So we're just quoting from that movie, Summer Magic.
• 2:52
  That was a great movie.
• 2:53
  Femininity, femininity.
• 2:54
  There's no way anyone has seen that.
• 2:56
  His us and no one else.
• 2:58
  It has Hayley Mills and it's old.
• 3:02
  It was good.
• 3:03
  It's nostalgic for me.
• 3:04
  I like that movie, but it's, I mean, it's an old movie.
• 3:07
  It comes with all the things that old movies come with.
• 3:09
  As a 2024 feminist, I cannot stand behind the movie, but it's great.
• 3:13
  Highly recommend.
• 3:14
  I mean, I feel like we could say that about most of the movies that we have watched.
• 3:18
  There's another song in that movie called the, what is it called?
• 3:23
  Are you talking about the bug one?
• 3:25
  The ugly bug ball.
• 3:26
  The ugly bug ball.
• 3:27
  At the ugly bug ball.
• 3:28
  Bum bum bum bum bum bum.
• 3:29
  I don't think that's the right tune.
• 3:32
  It is.
• 3:33
  I don't think so.
• 3:34
  It is.
• 3:35
  That one really is a classic.
• 3:37
  That one, I think won some awards or something.
• 3:39
  It was weird.
• 3:40
  Why?
• 3:41
  I don't know.
• 3:42
  It was very out of place too.
• 3:44
  It was just this man walking around.
• 3:45
  He found a bug.
• 3:46
  He started singing about it.
• 3:47
  To a child.
• 3:48
  He was, again, questionable.
• 3:49
  Well, he knew the child.
• 3:50
  But still.
• 3:51
  Still.
• 3:52
  You should watch the movie and figure that out by yourself.
• 3:54
  I don't know that you should watch the movie.
• 3:55
  We should have a movie club.
• 3:56
  Like a book club.
• 3:57
  We could have a playlist, a music playlist, and a movie watch playlist.
• 4:02
  You have a lot more faith in our ability to do things than I do.
• 4:06
  I have a playlist.
• 4:08
  You do have a playlist, but it is not public.
• 4:10
  It is for you and I.
• 4:11
  I think it is public actually.
• 4:12
  The people can't listen to it.
• 4:14
  The people.
• 4:15
  The people.
• 4:16
  The people.
• 4:17
  What if they want to hear our ridiculous music?
• 4:20
  It's on my YouTube music account.
• 4:26
  So that's where the people can find it.
• 4:31
  If you're asking, how about I give you a new song recommendation every day?
• 4:35
  If you're one of my family members, probably don't listen to it.
• 4:37
  Because I listen to a lot of inappropriate music.
• 4:40
  Let's see.
• 4:41
  Bree has a whole playlist called Not For Mom.
• 4:43
  Not For Mom.
• 4:45
  Sorry, Mom.
• 4:46
  You can listen to Taylor Swift's The Man.
• 4:49
  Hey, that's a great one.
• 4:51
  It only cusses two times.
• 4:52
  Yeah, that's probably my favorite Taylor Swift song.
• 4:54
  It's a great song.
• 4:56
  Today we're talking about toxic femininity.
• 4:57
  So far.
• 4:59
  That does tie in, to be fair, to Taylor Swift.
• 5:03
  Because she talks about toxic masculinity a lot.
• 5:05
  And now we're just flipping the script.
• 5:07
  I just almost quoted Taylor Swift again.
• 5:10
  Do it.
• 5:11
  Why can't she cuss us?
• 5:12
  Oh.
• 5:13
  You flip the script for the hum of it.
• 5:15
  Addicted to betrayal, but you're irrelevant.
• 5:17
  You're terrified.
• 5:18
  You can only sing like 10 seconds of something before I get copyrighted.
• 5:23
  That's Karma by Taylor Swift.
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  Thank you for the information.
• 5:26
  You're welcome.
• 5:27
  No one knew that one.
• 5:28
  Everybody caught on to the summer magic.
• 5:29
  But the Taylor Swift song, they were like, what?
• 5:32
  So today as we talk about toxic femininity, we last week talked about toxic masculine.
• 5:38
  No, two weeks ago.
• 5:39
  Two weeks ago.
• 5:40
  We're never going to talk about time units ever again.
• 5:42
  Okay.
• 5:43
  We talked about that in the last main episode.
• 5:45
  In the past.
• 5:46
  We talked about toxic masculinity and what that looks like and how it impacts both women
• 5:53
  and men.
• 5:54
  We had a special guest for the first time.
• 5:56
  He was very special.
• 5:58
  Very special.
• 5:59
  He came up from the downstairs and talked to us.
• 6:01
  From the beyond.
• 6:02
  From the beyond.
• 6:03
  My husband Nathan was on the episode last week.
• 6:06
  No!
• 6:07
  Two weeks ago.
• 6:08
  Stop talking about time!
• 6:10
  Stop!
• 6:12
  And so we talked about how that impacts everybody.
• 6:15
  How it impacts relationships and individuals and some specific individuals that are terrible.
• 6:26
  So we're going to talk about kind of the opposite of that and what that means.
• 6:30
  So Bree, tell us what toxic femininity means.
• 6:33
  Well, I googled it.
• 6:36
  As per what I usually do and I found a good old fashioned definition.
• 6:40
  An old fashioned one?
• 6:42
  Definitions in general are old fashioned.
• 6:47
  Are they?
• 6:48
  Obviously.
• 6:49
  I found that.
• 6:50
  If you google toxic femininity, it says it's a rigid or oppressive definition of womanhood,
• 6:57
  including pressures women face to restrict themselves to stereotypically feminine traits
• 7:02
  and characteristics.
• 7:04
  So kind of exactly what the toxic masculine man wants.
• 7:11
  I would say this is generally something that women are putting on themselves or that women
• 7:19
  are putting on other women.
• 7:21
  Not that men aren't involved at all, but it's stereotypical what is feminine.
• 7:28
  And I think, yeah, if you're looking at what is toxic femininity, it is going to be women
• 7:34
  putting it on themselves.
• 7:36
  Not that there's not also an aspect of that coming from the rest of the world, but in
• 7:41
  this specific context, that's women putting it on themselves.
• 7:45
  And like you said, the bigger issue is not just you putting it on you, but you putting
• 7:51
  it on every other woman that you see.
• 7:54
  And every woman has heard this, but like when they say, oh, girls don't do that.
• 7:58
  Girls don't talk like that.
• 7:59
  Girls don't burp and fart.
• 8:02
  And women never poop.
• 8:04
  No, we don't.
• 8:06
  It's just not part of our biology.
• 8:07
  We hold it in.
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  We hold it all in.
• 8:11
  There's a guy online that makes that joke all the time.
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  He goes, my wife, no, she never poops.
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  She doesn't.
• 8:19
  My worry is that there are actually men out there that think that or think things like
• 8:23
  that.
• 8:24
  Like I have concerns.
• 8:25
  They just don't.
• 8:27
  We just have given it up.
• 8:29
  We've evolved past it.
• 8:32
  Some people are born now without wisdom teeth and now women don't poop.
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  Yay, progress.
• 8:39
  You know, that sounds great.
• 8:41
  Actually, let's progress to that.
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  I actually would be fine with that.
• 8:46
  So stereotypical feminine traits, if you look those up, that would be cooperative, sexually
• 8:54
  submissive, passive, gentle, and driving their value from physical beauty.
• 9:01
  You know what that makes me think of?
• 9:02
  And I think we've referenced this before, but the Duggar family, the mom, I watched
• 9:10
  a documentary on that family.
• 9:13
  And one of the other family members is like a cousin or something, said that one of the
• 9:17
  things that drove them crazy about her the most is the way that she talks like this and
• 9:22
  she's so gentle and quiet and like that's her voice.
• 9:28
  So even these traits have come out in her literal voice.
• 9:34
  And that's what the stereotypically traditional Christian femininity, whatever, like however
• 9:42
  you want to describe it, that's what it's supposed to be.
• 9:44
  Like how you're talking about before, like you were kind of outspoken and loud about
• 9:48
  your beliefs and everything growing up and people kind of told you that wasn't feminine
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  or maybe you thought that about yourself.
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  That's how I think of it.
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  This women should be quiet and soft and keep their thoughts to themselves.
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  Because the second you become louder or that you speak out or the second that you dare
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  to think that you have a voice in any way, you become a threat to toxic masculinity.
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  You become a threat to the male leadership of the church or really male leadership in
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  whatever context you find yourself.
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  So you got to get told from a very young age, be quiet, be calm, be gentle, be submissive.
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  And if you're anything other than that, that clearly makes you way less of a woman.
• 10:35
  It's like when people like when you're in an argument with somebody that's really toxic,
• 10:40
  that's really toxic, and they'll dig into whatever's most important about you.
• 10:46
  Let's say that you see yourself as a very honest person.
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  They would start calling you a liar.
• 10:51
  They would go after that aspect of your personality.
• 10:54
  Or maybe you find a lot of who you are in your job and they start telling you you're
• 10:59
  terrible at your job or whatever.
• 11:01
  Or that your job doesn't matter.
• 11:03
  Exactly.
• 11:04
  Yes.
• 11:05
  It's the same thing, if perhaps even worse, because you start to tell women, you don't
• 11:11
  get to be a woman if you aren't these things.
• 11:14
  You don't get to be a woman if you enjoy your career.
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  If you don't want to be a stay at home mom.
• 11:21
  You don't get to be a woman if you don't want to put on makeup when you leave the house.
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  Or high heels.
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  Or you don't find value in makeup.
• 11:30
  Yeah, I think that's such a huge dig for anybody to...
• 11:38
  Because gender can be so much of a part of who you are, not that it always is, but it
• 11:42
  can be.
• 11:43
  And so to tell someone you just don't get to be anything.
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  You don't get to be anything.
• 11:49
  You don't get to find yourself anywhere because you're not stereotypically feminine.
• 11:55
  I think we should dive into the idea of beauty standards on women because I find that incredibly
• 12:01
  toxic.
• 12:02
  And just growing up, I always thought that I could never leave the house without looking
• 12:08
  beautiful.
• 12:11
  You're not allowed to leave the house in your pajama pants.
• 12:13
  You should always look your best, even if it's going to get the mail.
• 12:17
  And that does something to you as a person.
• 12:20
  You feel like if I'm not perfect, I'm not worthy of leaving my house.
• 12:25
  During COVID, I started going out, both of us, I think, started going out without makeup
• 12:30
  on because you'd put a mask on and that covers most of your face and then your mask is covered
• 12:36
  in makeup and whatever.
• 12:37
  So I would go to the store without makeup on, but half my face was covered so at least
• 12:42
  I wasn't offensive to the rest of the world.
• 12:46
  And then masks kind of faded away slowly and I still was occasionally going out without
• 12:54
  makeup.
• 12:55
  And I remember the first time that I did, I think we went to Target or something.
• 12:58
  And the first time that I went out and didn't have a mask or makeup on and I literally felt
• 13:03
  like I shouldn't be allowed in the store.
• 13:06
  I should not be allowed to walk into a public space because my face in itself was so offensive
• 13:13
  to everybody.
• 13:15
  And I'm a pretty confident person, Bri's a pretty confident person, but when you're told
• 13:21
  by society at large your entire life that you have to be the prettiest girl in the room
• 13:28
  or you're nothing, of course that's going to screw you up.
• 13:32
  Yeah.
• 13:33
  Or women look at other women who maybe don't put in the same value to outer beauty as they
• 13:40
  do, and they look down on them.
• 13:42
  And they teach their children to look down on them.
• 13:46
  And I think one of the ways that we've rebranded it is we've said, well, you should look presentable.
• 13:52
  That's what we've done.
• 13:53
  We've said presentable because we can't say you have to look pretty because that's a little
• 13:59
  controversial, right?
• 14:00
  You can't tell girls you have to be pretty.
• 14:02
  Some people do, but it's almost worse.
• 14:04
  Yeah.
• 14:05
  When you think of the difference between what is presentable for a woman versus what is
• 14:12
  presentable for a man.
• 14:15
  Because when I get ready in the morning, now I like makeup, I like to do my hair nice.
• 14:19
  I'm not saying there's literally nothing against that.
• 14:21
  If that is something that you enjoy doing.
• 14:22
  I just spent a hundred dollars on skincare.
• 14:26
  No shade at all if that is something that you take pleasure in for yourself.
• 14:32
  But when I get ready in the morning, it takes me an hour because I have to get my hair done
• 14:38
  and I have curly hair, so I have to gel it and wait for it to dry and all the fun things.
• 14:44
  And do my makeup and that takes half an hour and find clothes and that takes a while and
• 14:48
  whatever.
• 14:49
  And my husband literally finds clothes and that's all.
• 14:56
  That's how he becomes presentable to the world.
• 14:58
  No one would look at him and say, well, you don't look presentable.
• 15:03
  But if I walk out without doing all of those extra things that take me forever, then I
• 15:10
  am no longer presentable or feminine or a woman or upholding Christian standards.
• 15:18
  Because we talked about this in the toxic masculinity episode.
• 15:23
  Christianity tells women not, I don't want to say Christianity actually.
• 15:28
  Toxic Christianity tells women that if you are not beautiful at all times, if you do
• 15:35
  not look perfect, if you do not maintain a beautiful womanly figure and whatever and
• 15:41
  buy all the skincare and make yourself look 20 years old, if you don't do those things,
• 15:46
  then your husband is going to go find somebody who does and it's going to be your fault because
• 15:52
  you weren't beautiful enough.
• 15:54
  And toxic femininity tells you that too.
• 15:57
  I can't say femininity.
• 15:58
  Femininity, femininity.
• 15:59
  I'm going to sing that the entire time.
• 16:02
  Great.
• 16:03
  I would love that if you did.
• 16:04
  Something else that I saw, it's maybe an older trend on like TikTok and Facebook, whatever,
• 16:10
  but it was these women saying, look at this.
• 16:13
  These men are saying that they prefer women without makeup.
• 16:16
  They look better without makeup, but they're showing the pictures of the women.
• 16:20
  They're saying like, but she's wearing makeup.
• 16:23
  Look at this.
• 16:24
  And it's supposed to be just like a natural look of makeup.
• 16:26
  Now these women are saying, men can't even like you without makeup on.
• 16:30
  See now you at least have to make your makeup look natural and it's, you can't win no matter
• 16:36
  what you do.
• 16:37
  And they won't believe the men if they say, no, your face is fine.
• 16:40
  Your face is acceptable.
• 16:41
  Well, it's so part of who I am that even when Nathan will tell me like, you look beautiful
• 16:48
  today or whatever, if I don't have makeup on, I just brush it off.
• 16:54
  It's like it goes in one ear and out the other.
• 16:57
  And I don't want to say it doesn't make me feel better because I appreciate that he feels
• 17:01
  that way, but there's something inside of me that has been groomed to not accept that.
• 17:08
  And how terrible.
• 17:11
  You can't post a picture online.
• 17:13
  There are several pictures online of me with my kids or at Disney or whatever that I'm
• 17:20
  like, I don't like that that's up there because I don't look perfect.
• 17:23
  But the memory is still wonderful.
• 17:27
  Or like on TikTok, if you go to post on there and you're like, oh, I haven't done my makeup
• 17:31
  today.
• 17:32
  I look like trash.
• 17:33
  Don't worry.
• 17:34
  There's a filter to put makeup on right now to make you look presentable or to add a beard
• 17:40
  to yourself.
• 17:41
  And I tried that out today and that was fun.
• 17:43
  Hey, you know, give it a couple more days.
• 17:46
  Maybe you'll have one.
• 17:47
  I just plucked it yesterday.
• 17:50
  Another toxic trait.
• 17:52
  Oh, shaving.
• 17:54
  We could get into that.
• 17:55
  I hate shaving.
• 17:56
  Do you want me to read this quote or would you like to read it?
• 18:01
  So a quote that Brie found, verywellminds.com from Zuvah7, thank you, says that, says if
• 18:13
  toxic masculinity encourages violence and domination in order to uphold an unequal power dynamic,
• 18:20
  then toxic femininity supports silent acceptance of violence and domination in order to survive.
• 18:26
  I really liked that quote because I wanted to dive into that word survive at the end.
• 18:32
  It's not like Bear Grylls, like camping, hiking, fishing, survival skills.
• 18:37
  It's women are constantly trying to stay alive.
• 18:42
  That their existence is always in question.
• 18:46
  We'll bounce that back to the, we talked about this recently.
• 18:54
  Recently we talked about this, the bear versus man debate where women are asked, would you
• 19:00
  rather, if you're walking alone in a forest, would you rather come upon a bear or on a
• 19:05
  man?
• 19:06
  And women are saying they'd rather come upon the bear because we're fighting so hard to
• 19:11
  survive that that's how scared we have to be of men.
• 19:16
  Not every man, but enough of them that we have to constantly be on guard.
• 19:23
  Always.
• 19:24
  Because nothing you do as a woman is ever right.
• 19:27
  I think about the Barbie quote where essentially she's saying you can never do anything right.
• 19:32
  Toxic femininity tells you, you have to wear makeup because you have to be beautiful because
• 19:36
  you are a woman.
• 19:37
  But if you wear too much makeup and a man finds you in an alley and takes advantage of you,
• 19:41
  that's your fault because you were being too beautiful.
• 19:45
  Or what clothes you're wearing.
• 19:47
  And you may think I'm supposed to wear dresses.
• 19:50
  That's a, I don't want to say a trend.
• 19:52
  It's a very conservative.
• 19:53
  Yeah.
• 19:54
  It's a very conservative standpoint where women must wear dresses or like you look at
• 19:58
  the Amish women must wear dresses.
• 20:00
  But then you flip the script and if you wear sun dresses, that's the wrong kind of dress
• 20:05
  and you're showing too much of your skin and you can't do that.
• 20:07
  How dare you show a shoulder.
• 20:10
  It's insane.
• 20:11
  That's clavicle.
• 20:14
  And anything you do wrong excuses violence for men somehow.
• 20:20
  How is that possible?
• 20:22
  And toxic femininity only encourages that viewpoint.
• 20:25
  Yes.
• 20:26
  You even look in court cases and you'll see in cases of violence against women and things
• 20:32
  like that, they'll ask the question to the woman, were you drunk?
• 20:37
  Were you leading him on?
• 20:40
  Yeah.
• 20:41
  Were you leading him on?
• 20:42
  Were you saying suggestive things?
• 20:44
  Had you said suggestive things earlier?
• 20:46
  Did you give him your phone number?
• 20:47
  Maybe that encouraged him.
• 20:49
  Whatever.
• 20:51
  So even in our legal system, now I'm not saying the judges are necessarily siding with this,
• 20:56
  but even within our legal system, this is happening.
• 21:00
  Even in the broader culture, not just in church culture.
• 21:03
  And women know that.
• 21:05
  So again, we're just trying to survive.
• 21:08
  And this concept of toxic femininity, I have said femininity like four times.
• 21:14
  We could make this a drinking game again.
• 21:16
  Every time we mispronounce femininity, people get trashed around the world.
• 21:22
  But toxic femininity responds to toxic masculinity in saying, going to do this, like they said,
• 21:29
  to survive, to keep going.
• 21:32
  And imagine how toxic those things become when they meet.
• 21:37
  You know, toxic masculinity is horrifying on its own.
• 21:41
  Toxic femininity is awful on its own.
• 21:44
  Both are damaging to each individual person, but you bring them together.
• 21:48
  You bring a man that believes that in contact with a woman who believes that.
• 21:55
  And that's when tragedy happens.
• 21:59
  That's when massive abuse happens.
• 22:02
  Well you were saying earlier, the man is going to get more power, get more dominance, get
• 22:07
  more violent, but the woman is going to get abused or die from it.
• 22:14
  It could lead to her death.
• 22:15
  Right.
• 22:16
  And it's not good for the man either.
• 22:18
  He's not like doing great.
• 22:20
  We talked before about how men are less likely to seek mental health, things like that.
• 22:26
  This isn't good for men either, but at the end of the day, they still have power.
• 22:32
  They're still in power.
• 22:33
  They're still sitting at the top of the hill looking down at everyone else.
• 22:37
  The woman is literally not able to keep going.
• 22:43
  She's beaten.
• 22:44
  She is bruised.
• 22:45
  She can only submit and be passive so much before she no longer exists.
• 22:49
  Right.
• 22:50
  Exactly.
• 22:51
  We see this in culture at large, but we see it so heavily in the Christian church and
• 22:56
  unfortunately so heavily in our own lives, not our personal lives, but in the world around
• 23:02
  us specifically.
• 23:05
  We're watching this happen.
• 23:07
  We're watching this toxic femininity just destroy who people are, destroy their personalities,
• 23:16
  destroy the vibrant humans that they used to be.
• 23:22
  Because they're told that you need to be married in order to be of any value to our society
• 23:31
  and our culture and our people in general.
• 23:34
  But when you do get married, your dreams, everything about you ceases to exist because
• 23:42
  your now biggest calling is to build up the dreams of your husband because he is your
• 23:50
  purpose now.
• 23:51
  And to submit to his every desire, to his every decision, whether they're godly or not.
• 24:00
  And I have said this before, but I don't believe that God is okay with women following their
• 24:11
  husbands into sin just because they're submitting.
• 24:14
  Now there are churches that absolutely are teaching that.
• 24:17
  And we've heard them preach that.
• 24:19
  100%.
• 24:21
  If your husband is sinning, still follow him and you will be blessed for doing your part
• 24:26
  for submitting because that's your role.
• 24:28
  Your entire role is to submit.
• 24:31
  That's not doing you any good as a woman or your husband.
• 24:34
  It's not doing him any good either.
• 24:36
  And also I've seen so many times where the men are so praised and so loved in churches
• 24:45
  that their true personality is not there.
• 24:48
  So people think, you're a great guy.
• 24:50
  Oh, everybody else around this guy loves him.
• 24:54
  So what's wrong with me as a woman that he's not that way with me at home?
• 24:58
  He's not that way.
• 24:59
  So what's wrong with me now?
• 25:02
  There are so many cases of abuse that come out.
• 25:05
  There's someone I follow on Facebook and she was abused as a child.
• 25:10
  And when she came out with that story, people said, no, you're crazy because look what a
• 25:15
  wonderful guy he is.
• 25:18
  They didn't take her seriously and she couldn't take herself seriously to some degree because
• 25:24
  look what a wonderful guy he is.
• 25:26
  He wouldn't do something so terrible.
• 25:28
  You must have made it up in your head.
• 25:32
  If he's a terrible guy to you behind closed doors, whatever position this person is in,
• 25:37
  whether it's a parent, whether it's a husband, whether it's a partner of any kind, a friend,
• 25:42
  whatever, I don't care.
• 25:44
  If he's like that to you behind closed doors, that's who he is.
• 25:49
  Well they say who you truly are is who you are when no one else is watching.
• 25:53
  Yes.
• 25:54
  I am most myself when I'm around Bree, when I'm around Nathan, when I'm around my mom.
• 25:59
  That's when I'm most who I am because I'm the most comfortable around those people and
• 26:04
  I know that they're going to stick around.
• 26:08
  So I might not.
• 26:11
  You have no choice.
• 26:12
  You are my sister and you love me.
• 26:17
  Hold my hand when you say that.
• 26:20
  I mean, I guess we've made the point, but who he is to you is who he is.
• 26:26
  So whatever anyone else is telling you, they're full of crap, not because they're intentionally
• 26:30
  full of crap, but because they don't know and you know.
• 26:35
  Trust yourself.
• 26:36
  Trust yourself.
• 26:37
  Girl, trust yourself.
• 26:38
  And think of that.
• 26:39
  Think of all of these descriptors that you said earlier, cooperative, sexually submissive,
• 26:44
  passive, gentle, deriving value from physical beauty.
• 26:47
  All of those things lend themselves to not trusting yourself, to questioning everything
• 26:56
  you've ever thought or seen or whatever.
• 26:58
  So he can get away with whatever he wants.
• 27:01
  Because stereotypically, that is what womanhood is.
• 27:04
  Yes.
• 27:05
  That is what society and conservative Christian worlds are telling women that that is what
• 27:13
  womanhood is about being cooperative, being sexually submissive, being passive, being
• 27:18
  gentle, being told that beauty is the only thing that matters.
• 27:23
  How shallow, how small are we making women?
• 27:27
  What a good transition, Brianna.
• 27:28
  Are you prepared?
• 27:29
  No one's going to get that.
• 27:34
  I'm trying to find a fun transition noise.
• 27:37
  Like when you were little and you were listening to those Disney tapes and they would like
• 27:40
  turn the page and it was like, would that be nice to have?
• 27:46
  Yeah, you could just record that and that's what we'll put in.
• 27:50
  Stop it, you're trying to twist.
• 27:53
  Stop.
• 27:54
  So anyway, so instead of that, instead of what society has told us womanhood is, what
• 28:05
  does the Bible tell us that womanhood is?
• 28:09
  Bleeding.
• 28:10
  What?
• 28:11
  Soon you'll truly become a woman.
• 28:12
  I'm going to have to cut that out.
• 28:23
  No, you're not.
• 28:25
  So there are a lot of incredible women in the Bible and we've talked about a few of
• 28:29
  them.
• 28:30
  We will talk about more because that's what we do.
• 28:33
  That's what we live for.
• 28:36
  To help unfortunate women folk like yourselves, put our souls where no one else did turn to.
• 28:43
  I didn't think we were going to get the whole quote.
• 28:45
  Turns out we're lucky and we are.
• 28:51
  So the person that we wanted to focus on today is Debra.
• 28:56
  Big Deb making a comeback, a reprise.
• 28:59
  I don't think we've mentioned Big Deb in quite some time.
• 29:03
  If you want a good, good old fashioned laugh.
• 29:08
  What was it?
• 29:09
  Episode two?
• 29:10
  When we talk about?
• 29:11
  Yeah, episode two.
• 29:12
  Episode two, we talked about just like stories of strong women from the Bible and we talked
• 29:16
  about Big Deb and she is just a national treasure.
• 29:19
  A national treasure?
• 29:21
  And an international treasure.
• 29:22
  She's not from our nation.
• 29:25
  I know several Debra's.
• 29:27
  How dare you?
• 29:29
  This particular Debra.
• 29:32
  So, if you haven't heard that episode again, go back and listen once you're done with this
• 29:38
  one.
• 29:39
  We've got to make that clear.
• 29:40
  Finish this one.
• 29:41
  Let's go.
• 29:42
  We're having fun.
• 29:44
  But I'll kind of just briefly go into who Debra was and she's an example of biblical
• 29:50
  womanhood.
• 29:52
  Biblical femininity.
• 29:54
  Important enough to be written in the pages of the Bible.
• 29:58
  Not just written, like her whole story is told.
• 30:00
  She is an important.
• 30:01
  She's in the book of Judges because it is like a compilation of quite a few, but she
• 30:05
  is a featured very, very important piece of the book of Judges.
• 30:10
  So this is from the Jewish Women's Archive and it says that Debra is one of the major
• 30:16
  judges which was a charismatic military leader, not a judicial figure.
• 30:23
  So think of her as a military leader.
• 30:26
  That's what she would have been in the story of how Israel takes the land of Canaan.
• 30:30
  She is the only female judge mentioned and the only one to be called a prophet.
• 30:37
  So for all of the men out there who are telling women...
• 30:40
  You can't preach, you can't prophesy.
• 30:42
  Exactly.
• 30:43
  She was a prophet.
• 30:44
  She was called a prophet.
• 30:45
  In the Bible.
• 30:46
  In the Bible.
• 30:48
  And she was the only one described as performing a judicial function.
• 30:52
  So the story of Debra is long and complicated, but essentially a man named Barak comes to her and he says,
• 31:02
  Hey, we got to go battle these people.
• 31:04
  And she says, Okay, go.
• 31:08
  He basically says, I won't go without you.
• 31:14
  And she then in turn says, All right, I'll go.
• 31:19
  But know that the honor of this battle will go to a woman.
• 31:23
  Now that is often used in Christian circles as like an insult.
• 31:29
  Like she was insulting his manhood.
• 31:32
  Mind you, Barak doesn't care.
• 31:35
  He doesn't give a crap.
• 31:36
  He was like, I'm not gonna go if you don't go with me.
• 31:39
  Please go with me.
• 31:40
  I don't care.
• 31:41
  Let's go.
• 31:42
  I need my buddy.
• 31:43
  There's nothing here saying that he was insulted by what she said.
• 31:47
  He wasn't like, well, if it's gonna go to a woman, then forget that I'm gonna go because
• 31:50
  I'm a man and it should go to me.
• 31:52
  No, he was like, Okay, whatever.
• 31:55
  Let's go.
• 31:56
  So she was just telling him as a fact, it's not gonna go to actually either of us, right?
• 32:03
  It's gonna go to someone else.
• 32:04
  Right.
• 32:05
  Exactly.
• 32:06
  And so they go, they do battle.
• 32:08
  One guy escapes and this is kind of part of a different part of the story.
• 32:11
  But you want to hear the whole story in great detail and great humor.
• 32:16
  Episode two, but one guy escapes, runs off.
• 32:22
  He's gonna kind of I think, go tell everybody else like, hey, come on, help us out.
• 32:30
  Thank you.
• 32:32
  But he comes upon another woman named JL.
• 32:37
  And JL worries me a little bit.
• 32:40
  Frankly, I'm concerned for her.
• 32:41
  Okay.
• 32:42
  I like her.
• 32:43
  I like her too, but little worried.
• 32:45
  So JL sees him and he's like, Hey, protect me.
• 32:49
  Keep me safe.
• 32:50
  They're coming after me.
• 32:51
  Kind of demands it of her, right?
• 32:53
  I'm gonna hide in your tent.
• 32:55
  Yeah.
• 32:56
  And she's alone.
• 32:57
  It's just her.
• 32:58
  They did know each other.
• 32:59
  But yes, from like kind of in a roundabout way.
• 33:01
  Yes.
• 33:02
  And so she's like, All right, yeah, come on in.
• 33:04
  Lay down.
• 33:05
  Rest your head.
• 33:06
  You must be just so tired.
• 33:07
  Let me get you a beverage.
• 33:09
  Yeah.
• 33:10
  So she's playing the role of the traditional woman and right, like, she's gonna take care
• 33:13
  of him and whatever.
• 33:15
  Meanwhile, the moron falls asleep.
• 33:17
  Who's falling asleep in this scenario?
• 33:19
  People are literally coming to kill him.
• 33:21
  He's in essentially a stranger's house.
• 33:23
  He doesn't really know her, but he thinks she's a woman.
• 33:28
  She won't do anything.
• 33:30
  Right.
• 33:31
  So JL grabs a tent peg.
• 33:33
  I want you to think about this.
• 33:35
  Okay.
• 33:36
  What was a tent peg made of then?
• 33:37
  Wood?
• 33:38
  Like splintered wood?
• 33:39
  Think of that.
• 33:40
  She takes a tent peg and the woman hammers it into his temple.
• 33:47
  Yeah.
• 33:48
  See now I gotta mark this as explicit, but it's the Bible, so it's fine.
• 33:52
  Biblical womanhood.
• 33:53
  Tent pegs.
• 33:54
  And so she, she kills him.
• 33:56
  Now I gotta think that at some point during this, he woke up.
• 34:00
  And was like, Ow.
• 34:02
  Yeah.
• 34:03
  And she still went on.
• 34:04
  Yeah.
• 34:05
  This is violent.
• 34:06
  Okay.
• 34:07
  This is a violent, brutal murder.
• 34:09
  And then Barack and Deborah come back and they're like, Hey, have you seen this guy?
• 34:12
  She's like, Oh yeah, I think I saw them.
• 34:16
  Come on into my tent.
• 34:17
  Let's check it out.
• 34:18
  And they come upon this man with a tent peg in his head.
• 34:24
  And she's the one that won them the battle.
• 34:27
  Right.
• 34:28
  So when you talk about femininity and womanhood and what that looks like, where are we pulling
• 34:35
  that from?
• 34:36
  Are we pulling it from society?
• 34:38
  We're supposed to not be part of society as Christians, right?
• 34:40
  We're supposed to be part of the world.
• 34:41
  Yeah.
• 34:42
  In it, but not of it.
• 34:43
  Exactly.
• 34:44
  So what are we pulling our definition of femininity from?
• 34:48
  We're pulling it from the world.
• 34:50
  Absolutely.
• 34:51
  And like the 1950s world.
• 34:54
  That is not what the Bible ever said.
• 34:56
  There is nothing in the Bible that says, and women must put on their makeup before they
• 35:01
  head into church because otherwise it will be offensive to the men.
• 35:06
  That's not a thing.
• 35:07
  No, no, no.
• 35:09
  There is nothing that says, and women must make their husbands dinner every single night.
• 35:14
  And it must be something that he likes, including meat and potatoes.
• 35:17
  That's not a thing.
• 35:19
  We have pulled this from society.
• 35:21
  We've pulled it from our own tiny little worlds that we live in, not from the huge, beautiful,
• 35:30
  colorful world that God gave us.
• 35:32
  Yep.
• 35:33
  Why are we doing that?
• 35:34
  And why are we doing it in the name of God?
• 35:36
  My gosh.
• 35:37
  So again, like you said, it's a power grab.
• 35:40
  Keep women small.
• 35:41
  Right.
• 35:42
  Well, and what's really sad is, so this has taken hold again with social media because
• 35:46
  of the tradwife movement.
• 35:48
  So that's like the traditional wife movement.
• 35:50
  I Googled that too.
• 35:51
  I'm proud of you.
• 35:52
  Do you want me to read it?
• 35:53
  I would love you to read it.
• 35:54
  Okay.
• 35:55
  If you Google it, the first response that comes up, it says, a woman that embraces traditional
• 36:01
  gender roles and marriages, particularly focusing on homemaking and supporting her husband as
• 36:06
  the primary breadwinner.
• 36:08
  The term became popularized in social media and blogs around 2016 and is often associated
• 36:14
  with the conservative Christians.
• 36:16
  That's the first thing that pops up when you Google a tradwife.
• 36:21
  I hate that for us because we sit here and we call ourselves Christians.
• 36:27
  And like for me, I do a lot of our social media stuff and I hashtag things like Christian
• 36:33
  women and biblical womanhood and whatever.
• 36:38
  And I almost don't like to do it because I know what else is coming up in those searches.
• 36:44
  And I don't want to be related to it.
• 36:48
  Something that has happened for me too that I've really noticed about myself because I
• 36:52
  am single and I'm online dating.
• 36:56
  I tend to, when someone on their profile says that they're a Christian or whatever, I almost
• 37:03
  am not attracted to that.
• 37:05
  Because in my mind I think, oh, they're looking for a tradwife and I am not that and will
• 37:12
  never be.
• 37:13
  Yeah, you almost, it makes you want to be a quiet Christian because you don't want to
• 37:20
  be associated with this.
• 37:22
  Well do you think that this movement of traditional gender roles, keeping women small, keeping
• 37:30
  women in their place.
• 37:31
  Do you think that's furthering the kingdom of God or is it hurting the reputation of
• 37:37
  God's love for his people?
• 37:39
  Well not only that, and I think that's absolutely valid, but not only that, think of how much
• 37:45
  focus is put on this topic in Christian circles, in the Christian church.
• 37:52
  You hear sermons on this absolutely constantly.
• 37:56
  Is this topic in any way, whether you're for it, against it, whatever.
• 38:01
  Is it making new disciples for Jesus?
• 38:05
  Is it furthering God's kingdom?
• 38:07
  Is it doing anything that we were told to do?
• 38:10
  Or is it focusing on power?
• 38:13
  It's not doing what we're supposed to do.
• 38:15
  And then they're making it seem like, no, no, no, this is what women want.
• 38:21
  And the women are telling other women to do this and that is what they should want.
• 38:26
  If they are a Christian woman, you should want this.
• 38:30
  If you would just submit, you would be happier.
• 38:32
  I saw this on Facebook and it was just a repost of something and it says, she'll submit naturally
• 38:40
  if you lead properly.
• 38:46
  And this, even strong women, even strong women like us as we sit here, there's still a part
• 38:54
  of you that's like, maybe that's what I'm supposed to be doing.
• 38:58
  Because it's so ingrained in everything about Christianity, not in the Bible, but in everything
• 39:03
  about the Christian church and everything about what the church has become since Christ died.
• 39:08
  Not when Christ was alive, not when he was doing every wonderful thing he was doing,
• 39:12
  but since then.
• 39:15
  We've turned it into this.
• 39:16
  If men would just lead properly, then we wouldn't have a problem submitting.
• 39:20
  And there's something wrong with your faith if you do not believe this.
• 39:25
  You don't have a space in church.
• 39:28
  You don't have a space in God's kingdom.
• 39:30
  It calls your entire eternity into question.
• 39:36
  The pain and difficulty of this topic for us, I think, can't be overstated because in
• 39:42
  diving into this, I felt at least, and I'm sure you probably felt this way too, but I
• 39:48
  felt that literally I was taking eternity into my hands and saying, well, heaven might
• 39:55
  not be accessible to me anymore because I was looking for my own place in God's kingdom
• 40:03
  as a woman.
• 40:05
  And according to the church, there wasn't one.
• 40:08
  Because you didn't fit into this perfect little box of what it is to be a woman.
• 40:16
  And I'm never going to fit into that.
• 40:18
  And you're never going to fit into that.
• 40:19
  And there are millions of women around the world that are never going to fit into that.
• 40:24
  But you still have a place in heaven.
• 40:26
  God still loves you.
• 40:27
  He is not calling you to fit in that box.
• 40:30
  Other women are.
• 40:31
  The church is.
• 40:33
  Toxic masculinity is.
• 40:34
  Toxic femininity is.
• 40:35
  Hey, I said it right that time.
• 40:37
  Proud of you.
• 40:39
  I hate, I just, it makes me.
• 40:42
  Makes your blood boil.
• 40:44
  Yeah.
• 40:45
  When God's name gets stuck on all of this stupidness.
• 40:48
  And even when people tolerate what we have to say about this sometimes, when church people
• 40:56
  tolerate what we have to say, you get an eye roll and it's like, well, you'll understand
• 41:00
  someday.
• 41:02
  Or I get this all the time.
• 41:05
  Well, you know, you must have just not come upon an argument with your husband yet where
• 41:10
  someone had to make a decision where you just couldn't come to a decision together and someone
• 41:14
  had to stand up and make that decision.
• 41:17
  And it has to be someone.
• 41:19
  There has to be one CEO.
• 41:21
  One leader of the team.
• 41:24
  No.
• 41:27
  I remember being in a group of women and them talking about their marriages or their previous
• 41:34
  marriages and that exact topic came up.
• 41:38
  Like, well, if there's an argument, someone has to decide and it's the man's job to decide.
• 41:44
  And I was like, well, why don't you just stop the argument and say, neither of us can come
• 41:50
  to a conclusion right now.
• 41:52
  Let's think on it and pray about it.
• 41:56
  And like we've said before in previous podcasts, if you're truly following what God wants you
• 42:01
  to do and you pray about it, God's going to lead you both to the same decision.
• 42:06
  Because God's not the God of confusion.
• 42:09
  Or you think about who knows more about this situation.
• 42:13
  Who has the most knowledge on this topic?
• 42:15
  Is it the husband or the wife?
• 42:18
  Then let them make the decision if you still can't come to a conclusion.
• 42:21
  But it's not one person gets ultimate power just because...
• 42:26
  You can say it.
• 42:27
  He has a weaning.
• 42:28
  Sorry, mom.
• 42:29
  That's twice this episode.
• 42:30
  Yeah, we should start recording this.
• 42:34
  I think for Nathan and I, yes, we have come to arguments where it's very hard for us to
• 42:44
  compromise on something.
• 42:47
  But you do have to take a step back and you have to say logically, all right, maybe one
• 42:52
  of us knows more about this.
• 42:54
  Or maybe one of us is more passionate about this.
• 42:58
  Maybe one of us would be more hurt by the other decision.
• 43:02
  And so sometimes he makes the final decision and sometimes I make the final decision and
• 43:06
  that's okay.
• 43:07
  Are you looking for a partner or are you looking for a parent in marriage?
• 43:15
  And I think that can go both ways because from the toxic femininity standpoint, they're
• 43:21
  almost looking for a father.
• 43:24
  They're looking for someone to save them.
• 43:27
  They're looking for a savior, but they're not looking to God.
• 43:31
  They're looking to a man.
• 43:34
  It infantilizes women in a huge way.
• 43:37
  And we accept it because we've been groomed since children to accept it.
• 43:42
  Been told that women want that.
• 43:45
  And if you don't want it, then you're not a proper woman.
• 43:48
  And on the flip side, toxic masculinity does want a mother to pick up after them, to make
• 43:56
  them dinner, to take care of all of their millions of children, to whatever, to make
• 44:02
  their lives seamless, to be a housekeeper.
• 44:06
  Hire a housekeeper.
• 44:09
  Women often get into situations where they're told you don't bring in any money and so therefore
• 44:16
  you don't get a say in things.
• 44:18
  Money is really held over women, which is quite an insane thing to me because you're
• 44:23
  telling women you can't make money.
• 44:25
  You can't go get a job.
• 44:27
  You can't contribute to the household financially, whatever.
• 44:32
  But then on the flip side, you're also telling them because you don't financially contribute
• 44:37
  to this house, you don't get a say in anything.
• 44:40
  The money's not yours.
• 44:41
  I'm going to hide it wherever I feel like hiding it.
• 44:43
  I'm going to take it from you.
• 44:47
  And manipulate you financially as well.
• 44:50
  But if you look at what it would cost to hire a housekeeper and a nanny and a chauffeur and
• 44:59
  a cook, all of the things that stay at home wives are doing, all of those roles, it would
• 45:08
  bankrupt you.
• 45:11
  She just doesn't get paid because she's choosing to be.
• 45:14
  I forget, I saw it one time.
• 45:15
  It was like, instead of calling it a stay at home spouse, it's like the servant spouse
• 45:21
  or something like that.
• 45:23
  Because this person is doing all the work at home for no pay and there's nothing wrong
• 45:30
  with that as long as they're respected in that role.
• 45:33
  As long as they have chosen that role for themselves and the other partner respects
• 45:38
  them and says, all right, yeah, I might make all the money over here technically, but it's
• 45:43
  all both of ours because really we're both doing work together to keep everything going.
• 45:50
  Another view that you could take on toxic femininity would be a stereotypical feminist
• 46:00
  burning your bra saying that men don't matter and they can barely turn their heads to breathe.
• 46:07
  I remember as a kid, we've said before, feminism was a dirty word because of this concept of
• 46:16
  a stereotypical feminist.
• 46:20
  Man haters.
• 46:21
  Yeah.
• 46:22
  I think the conservative media and the Christian church did a super good job of making the
• 46:28
  whole concept of feminism look like that.
• 46:32
  I remember watching, my mom watched Fox News one time and it was this whole piece on how
• 46:37
  feminists want to get rid of Father's Day because it focuses on men, I guess.
• 46:43
  I don't know.
• 46:44
  And at the time, because that was how I was taught to think, I was like, gosh, these feminists
• 46:50
  are terrible.
• 46:51
  What is wrong with them?
• 46:52
  Father's Day isn't hurting anybody.
• 46:54
  Whatever.
• 46:55
  We like barbecues.
• 46:58
  And that was my thought process.
• 47:00
  I was like, oh, well, clearly they're right.
• 47:02
  I agree with them, whatever.
• 47:03
  But now with the advantage of time and knowledge, I can look at that and say, okay, yeah, there
• 47:08
  are probably some radical feminists that are saying, yeah, let's get rid of Father's Day.
• 47:12
  We hate men.
• 47:14
  Women can survive on their own, whatever.
• 47:16
  But it's few and far between.
• 47:20
  It's like we had talked about on the toxic masculinity episode.
• 47:24
  It's the extreme mindsets that are the problem.
• 47:29
  The ones that think there's a black and white answer to everything.
• 47:35
  That is toxic.
• 47:36
  Yes.
• 47:37
  And just as with the Christian, you don't want to be associated with, this is an older
• 47:42
  reference, but there was a church called Westboro Baptist Church and they were picketing gay
• 47:47
  soldiers' funerals and just really, they did a lot of horrifying things.
• 47:52
  And it got so much media attention.
• 47:56
  And there were so many Christians out there saying, okay, but that's not us.
• 48:01
  They're saying they represent us, but they don't represent us.
• 48:03
  How could you begin to believe that that represents Christianity?
• 48:08
  And for feminists, I think, at least feminists who are finding themselves in the Christian
• 48:14
  church, we're saying the same thing.
• 48:17
  How could you think that of us?
• 48:19
  That's not what we're saying.
• 48:21
  There are some extreme people that are saying that, but that's not what we're saying.
• 48:25
  That's not what the concept is saying.
• 48:27
  I just want equality.
• 48:28
  That's all I want.
• 48:29
  I want to be looked at as a human.
• 48:32
  Please.
• 48:33
  So there's a toxic version of feminism.
• 48:35
  Absolutely.
• 48:36
  Yeah.
• 48:37
  But I think, yeah, we're just looking for equality.
• 48:41
  There shouldn't have to be a whole podcast on this.
• 48:44
  No, but there shouldn't.
• 48:45
  But we're very good at it.
• 48:47
  We're very chatty.
• 48:48
  Very good.
• 48:49
  We're extremely chatty.
• 48:50
  I saw a TikTok today because have you seen...
• 49:00
  So there's like a song by...
• 49:02
  I don't know how to describe it.
• 49:05
  I don't know what's wrong with me.
• 49:06
  But she has this video of this girl singing, I'm looking for a man in finance, trust fund,
• 49:12
  six, five, blue eyes.
• 49:14
  So someone did a reprise of that.
• 49:16
  What did we call the reprise?
• 49:18
  Spinoff?
• 49:19
  I don't know.
• 49:20
  He goes, I'm looking for a trad wife.
• 49:22
  Good cook.
• 49:23
  Blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 49:24
  Gross.
• 49:25
  I don't know what else he said.
• 49:26
  I mean, they're both gross, really.
• 49:28
  They're both gross.
• 49:29
  I think we do focus, again, we always focus on how things affect women because we're women
• 49:33
  and that's the only perspective that we have.
• 49:37
  But it's gross from either direction.
• 49:39
  It's terrible for a man to sit there and say, yeah, I want this woman that's going to cook
• 49:43
  and clean for me and that treats me like a child and whatever.
• 49:47
  That's terrible.
• 49:48
  It's also terrible for women to say, I want a man that looks like this and makes this
• 49:52
  much money because I need stability and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 49:56
  Although.
• 49:57
  Don't although this, Diana.
• 50:01
  It's not necessarily bad if it's a business arrangement.
• 50:05
  Your marriage is going to be a business arrangement?
• 50:07
  Well, it is if you marry that one guy on TikTok.
• 50:11
  So I think we've referenced several different episodes of our podcast.
• 50:16
  And if you perhaps want to go on a bender, feel free to go back all the way to episode
• 50:24
  one.
• 50:25
  Listen, all the way to whatever episode this is.
• 50:27
  Honestly, though, take some breaks.
• 50:30
  I'm scared for you if you've done that, because that means you've spent a significant amount
• 50:36
  of time with the two of us idiots in a very short, like short span of time.
• 50:42
  So do you need help?
• 50:44
  Are you okay?
• 50:46
  Like therapy.
• 50:47
  I, it's like that part of Gilmore Girls where Lorelei gives Roy, if you haven't seen Gilmore
• 50:54
  Girls, just skip this part because you won't get it.
• 50:56
  I love Gilmore Girls so much.
• 50:57
  That's one of my comfort shows.
• 50:59
  We've got to rewatch it.
• 51:01
  But if you've not seen it.
• 51:03
  So the mom, her daughter and her friends are wasted.
• 51:08
  Like they are smashed and they wake up hung over the next day.
• 51:12
  And so the mom brings them tacos and she brings the two girls tacos and then she brings her
• 51:16
  daughter a burrito.
• 51:18
  And she says, I gave this one to you because I know you can handle it.
• 51:21
  We've been training for this our whole lives.
• 51:24
  And see Bri and I, we've been training for this our whole lives.
• 51:27
  We know how stupid we are.
• 51:28
  We're okay with it.
• 51:30
  We could sit and talk like this for 10 more hours.
• 51:34
  Not in the seat, but maybe another time.
• 51:37
  But I worry for you if you've spent, what are we at?
• 51:40
  Like probably 13 hours with us at this point.
• 51:43
  Take some breaks.
• 51:44
  Get some water, hydrate, go for a walk, then come back and laugh with us some more.
• 51:53
  Hydrate stay healthy.
• 51:54
  Okay guys, I want to go eat dinner now.
• 51:57
  Stay tuned.
• 51:58
  We're going to be talking about other things in other episodes, but we're not going to
• 52:00
  reference them because we don't know which episode this is.
• 52:02
  We don't know what, but if you would like us to talk about anything at all under the
• 52:08
  sun.
• 52:09
  Nope, not anything.
• 52:10
  There are topics we won't talk about.
• 52:11
  I will talk about pretty much anything.
• 52:12
  Great.
• 52:13
  No, don't call us.
• 52:17
  Send us a message, send us a carrier pigeon.
• 52:19
  You can find us on social media, Instagram, TikTok.
• 52:22
  I think we have a Facebook.
• 52:23
  We do have a Facebook.
• 52:24
  We have an email if you want to email us.
• 52:29
  And so on and so forth.
• 52:30
  And this is a conclusion.
• 52:32
  And thank you and goodbye.
• 52:33
  Rest in peace.
• 52:34
  And whatnot.
• 52:35
  See you next time.