Latest / The Scene Projects / Charlie Sells on Marketing Insights, Business Challenges, and Entrepreneurial Advice

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Charlie Sells on Marketing Insights, Business Challenges, and Entrepreneurial Advice · The Scene Projects

• 0:22
  Welcome in to Real Biz.
• 0:24
  I'm your host, Bubba Starts.
• 0:25
  And with me today from Clarity Over Everything, Charlie Sells.
• 0:29
  Charlie, welcome to the show.
• 0:31
  Man, what's going on, Bubba?
• 0:32
  I'm stoked to be here.
• 0:34
  Yeah.
• 0:34
  I'm glad we can make it happen.
• 0:36
  We are both probably gonna sweat it out a little bit during this interview, you being
• 0:40
  outside in Tennessee, me being in my studio that has no AC.
• 0:45
  So That's right.
• 0:46
  We're gonna we're gonna blare through this.
• 0:48
  It's gonna be great.
• 0:50
  And before we get into all the things that you're doing now, you know, as a as a small
• 0:55
  business owner and what you're doing to help other, you know, small and medium sized
• 0:59
  businesses out there.
• 1:00
  Wanna get a little bit of your backstory.
• 1:02
  So the floor is yours, Charlie.
• 1:05
  Thank you.
• 1:06
  The very high level version.
• 1:08
  I went to school for marketing and, actually fell in love with marketing in high school.
• 1:12
  I was able to go to a public high school that had all kinds of stuff, that you could take
• 1:17
  advantage of, and the business track was one of them.
• 1:19
  So, I've always loved communicating ideas.
• 1:21
  I've all loved the creative side of marketing a lot.
• 1:24
  And so right after I graduated from college, I graduated into a really bad economy and decided
• 1:28
  I'm gonna become a youth pastor for work, as long as I can.
• 1:31
  And so you would not believe how much marketing translates into church work and how much help
• 1:35
  they sometimes need, you know, with newsletters and websites and all of the things.
• 1:39
  And so we're sort of doing marketing and and messaging and content while, you know, serving
• 1:44
  in that capacity.
• 1:45
  And so after ten years as a youth pastor, I got back into the marketing world when worked for
• 1:49
  Dave Ramsey and Ramsey Solutions on a couple of his marketing teams for about four years, and
• 1:54
  then worked for a very small agency for about nine months, as most startups do.
• 1:58
  Seasons happen and things change that sometimes don't include you in the future.
• 2:02
  And so now for, over two years, I've been helping small business owners, reduce confusion
• 2:08
  and navigate complexity, through better positioning so that they can be clear and
• 2:13
  aligned on what's next.
• 2:14
  The translation I like to use is I get to be the Alfred to your Batman.
• 2:18
  A lot of times, these are people who, don't necessarily have the resources to, use an
• 2:22
  agency or, have the full fractional CMO kind of thing.
• 2:26
  And so I get to help help them, number one, do more of what they love to do, but I also get to
• 2:30
  solve all the the problems, website, email, social, everything else that they don't
• 2:35
  necessarily want to solve.
• 2:37
  Love
• 2:38
  the analogy.
• 2:39
  Secretly, the most important person in the entire series, and without him, nothing goes.
• 2:47
  And the the unheralded heroes.
• 2:49
  Right?
• 2:50
  And I love what you said about, you know, working in the mission.
• 2:54
  Whether it's, you know, a church and you're spreading the word of god or for another
• 2:57
  nonprofit or for a business, marketing, it it permeates everything.
• 3:02
  And I think a lot of people often forget that and especially as they are starting a new
• 3:07
  business, as people who are maybe really good at something, they've been working in someone
• 3:12
  else's business for a long time, they know the process of the work.
• 3:16
  They know how to do the work very well, but then sometimes getting out that they have no
• 3:20
  idea what all they're going to take on.
• 3:22
  Right?
• 3:23
  From the web design and email marketing to, those now social media has to be a huge part of
• 3:28
  everything and content creation now comes along with that, that it it is isn't a struggle.
• 3:33
  It's harder than it's ever been.
• 3:35
  Right?
• 3:35
  And because so many products are just available online, to just set up a mom and pop shop and
• 3:40
  to think that, you know, people are going to come in and buy it because they need it just
• 3:44
  isn't true either.
• 3:45
  Right?
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  When they can go on Amazon and get whatever they want delivered within twenty four hours
• 3:50
  usually now or or, well, you know, an hour in some places depending on where you live, that
• 3:56
  it it just makes it so much harder.
• 3:57
  You have to be able to build relationships.
• 3:59
  You have to be able to build trust with your customers in that space and in a very limited
• 4:05
  time frame.
• 4:06
  So I love what you do.
• 4:08
  And, really, the the focus on these small businesses and working in that, because you
• 4:13
  could have very well you could have very well skewed your business.
• 4:16
  And and with your experience, you could have gone, I'm only gonna work with Fortune 500
• 4:21
  companies.
• 4:22
  I'm gonna get two or three clients that have huge budgets, and I can do that.
• 4:26
  And a much harder path to take is to help a much larger number of individuals, but I love
• 4:32
  and and I'm sure that you think of this because because we know each other a little bit, but
• 4:36
  you are helping people.
• 4:38
  And I think that's probably what drives you more than anything.
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  That's right.
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  And, at the end of the day, I think as a small business owner myself, you know, I've gotta
• 4:47
  call and help.
• 4:47
  I've gotta call in people who are doing the same thing.
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  I'm not necessarily going to the biggest name or, you know, the person with the most
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  resources.
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  I'm bootstrapping and duct taping and trying to, you know, piece everything together in the
• 4:59
  best way possible.
• 5:00
  And so I think at the end of the day, you know, what I started out doing is, you know, really
• 5:05
  evaluating from the perspective of a lot of my clients what wasn't working.
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  And a lot of them were being prescribed things that they didn't need or that they didn't
• 5:16
  understand.
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  And I'm not knocking on agencies because I work with some great agencies.
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  But I think sometimes the proclivity when you sign up with an agency is they know everything,
• 5:25
  and they should just tell me what to do.
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  And that's not always the case because if you don't take time to get to know somebody's
• 5:30
  goals, what they want, what they can be freed up to do, and how to coach them in that, then
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  it just becomes a pile of tactics.
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  It becomes a pile of stuff to do, what I call random acts of marketing.
• 5:40
  And then eventually, you look up at all of this stuff, all these functions that you have, and
• 5:45
  sometimes you understand it, sometimes you don't.
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  Maybe there's a way to track it, maybe there's not.
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  And what I what I do more than anything, Bubba, is I try not to overprescribe.
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  You know, it is a really collaborative partnership in in what I get to do, but that
• 5:59
  also frees them up to speak into their expertise.
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  I just wrapped up a meeting with somebody last week where 80% of their business is absolutely
• 6:07
  thriving.
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  It's, been in it for about three years, know the client super well.
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  And I said, all we're gonna do really is put some different vocabulary around what you do so
• 6:16
  that you can capture the next client, so that you're easily findable, so that, whatever
• 6:22
  you're doing next is supported in a way that shows you're you're not messing around.
• 6:27
  And, I mean, it's it really goes beyond the guesswork piece because we can give broad
• 6:33
  advice.
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  We can give, you know, sometimes very, very niche marketing talk, but making sure that, you
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  know, somebody understands why we're doing what we're doing.
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  That's the most important piece to me.
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  And and small business owners, honestly, are the most receptive to that, because they're not
• 6:49
  necessarily thinking about the budget cost.
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  They're not necessarily thinking about the ROI.
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  They know it has to get done, and they know that we're going to build it in an intentional
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  way.
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  And, I think you're starting to touch on this as well, Bubba.
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  In the world of AI today, yes, you can go build something really fast.
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  I'm a big believer in, get as many ideas out on the table as we possibly can and then slow
• 7:11
  build from there so that not only do we build it correctly, we build something that lasts and
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  that they're gonna get a lot of mileage of.
• 7:17
  Yeah.
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  And it may be a little bit slower process, but what you end up with is a much more solid
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  foundation and the know how be behind that.
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  And I think, you know, you you mentioned coaching inside of what you're doing, that
• 7:31
  you're not just doing things for your clients.
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  You're you're teaching them the things that they can do.
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  And whether they want to do those things or not, that's an entirely different story.
• 7:41
  Whether they have the time to do those or not, but you're providing them that education base.
• 7:45
  And I think that endears you to a lot of your clients even more that even even though now
• 7:50
  they know how to do it, they would still maybe rather pay you to do those things and and and
• 7:55
  build that lasting relationship to know that it's done and done right even if they have the
• 8:00
  skills now because of you to perform those.
• 8:03
  And I think that's something that a lot of a lot of business owners who work in these
• 8:08
  service industries are always very you know, you kinda stranglehold that service and that
• 8:12
  knowledge.
• 8:13
  Right?
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  But I feel like by sharing it that you actually become closer with your clients and you put
• 8:19
  them in a position where they don't want to leave you rather than, you know, feeling like
• 8:24
  they're overcharged for something that they could have been taught and then eventually
• 8:28
  leaving because of those reasons.
• 8:30
  Right?
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  Building up the resentments Yeah.
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  Instead of good sentiments.
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  Oh, a 100%.
• 8:35
  I'll give you a client horror story, and then I'll tell you my philosophy where where this is
• 8:39
  concerned.
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  I've been working with a client for about six months now.
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  And, previously, they were working with a big agency.
• 8:45
  And, Thanksgiving rolls around.
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  It's, you know, food industry adjacent.
• 8:50
  And all of a sudden, client looked up on their social media and saw there was a product that
• 8:55
  they did not make that was put on their on their page.
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  Mortified.
• 9:00
  I mean, people calling in going, hey.
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  We want this thing.
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  And and the client's going, I I don't make that.
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  Where'd you see that?
• 9:06
  Oh, we saw it on your on your Facebook page.
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  And, I mean, that's, you know, one of a million stories I think we could all tell about, you
• 9:12
  know, interactions we've had where people just thought this is the right thing to go, and they
• 9:15
  don't talk it through.
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  They don't take time to understand the brand.
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  They don't take they don't take time to to dig in and create that partnership.
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  It just becomes about, you know, receiving information and then executing on it.
• 9:27
  And so you're exactly right.
• 9:29
  There there are some people who, you know, I have a two pronged approach to it.
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  One is exactly what you've described.
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  It's kind of the fractional marketing director model.
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  I'm not trying to be an all in one agency by any stretch.
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  I know what I'm bad at.
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  You don't necessarily want me, you know, doing some of the hard coding or or doing a full
• 9:46
  brand design or anything like that.
• 9:48
  I contract that stuff out people who are way smarter and more talented than I am.
• 9:51
  But to your point, like, setting up, setting up an email system or making sure that all the h
• 9:57
  ones on your website are correct.
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  Those are simple things that a business owner just doesn't think about.
• 10:01
  They don't time to think about it.
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  They wanna go cook more, sell more, coach more, do more.
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  And so there there's an ongoing, you know, kind of partnership that I get to do.
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  The other piece that I've just propped up recently that I'm finding a lot of success
• 10:13
  with, Bubba, is doing these two week clarity and alignment sprints.
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  This is for the business owner who has probably been doing something for the last year or two,
• 10:22
  is in a really good place, but they know something is just off.
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  And so what I do is I do a full audit top to bottom of your brand, your your emails, your
• 10:31
  social media, your website if you have one.
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  And and we bring all that together in either a half day or a full day.
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  We're gonna we're gonna get a state of the brain.
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  We're gonna find all of the gaps, all of the opportunities, and then we're gonna create a
• 10:43
  road map for success.
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  A short term one for ninety days because you can do anything for ninety days, and then a
• 10:49
  twelve month outlook to say, if this is where you wanna be in a year, this is what has to be
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  true in order for you to get there.
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  Both of those are just different pieces of the value.
• 10:56
  Some of them want a really quick hit adrenaline shot in the arm.
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  That way, they can get some momentum and then pass it on to an internal team or an agency or
• 11:03
  something like that.
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  And then the other ones, they really do want somebody to walk with them in their business to
• 11:09
  the degree that, you know, they don't actually become a a part of the team.
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  And I mean that, you know, very lovingly because my big my biggest value is in remaining
• 11:18
  objective.
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  It's not in, you know, becoming so ingrained that I'm a I'm a extension of your team.
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  It's more, you know, to be to be frank, that Alfred to your Batman piece, because that's
• 11:30
  where the highest value is for them long term.
• 11:34
  Yeah.
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  Because if you do become, know, an invaluable part of their team, what happens when you want
• 11:40
  to move on?
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  Right?
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  And you never wanna feel like you're handcuffed to a client in the same way as well.
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  I think you touched on some really cool points in there that I I believe are extremely true.
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  And and in the world that we live in now even more is that every business is not the same,
• 11:58
  but also every founder or business owner is not the same.
• 12:01
  You need that time to audit and to do that.
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  And on our music side, we do this.
• 12:07
  Right?
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  When we bring in a new client for our management services, it's a long approach.
• 12:11
  It is, you know, give us a week to look at your social media and get an idea from the outside
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  first.
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  Right?
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  And then let's sit down and let's have a couple of really in-depth meetings where we're sitting
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  down with you learning your goals, learning about you as a person and what you want to do,
• 12:25
  where your strengths and where your weaknesses are so we find out how we can all work
• 12:30
  together.
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  If you're really strong in, you know, graphic design, then you don't need me to do those
• 12:35
  things.
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  So I'm not gonna come to you with a cookie cutter approach and to do that, which you're
• 12:39
  just never going to get from a large agency.
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  And the large agency is going to come in, and they're going to treat you like every other
• 12:45
  client that they've ever had no matter what the size of that company is or who that owner is.
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  So I think what you are doing and and to more in-depth, this, the fractional, you know, CMO,
• 12:56
  which I didn't even know until you explained it to me.
• 12:58
  You know, I'd seen the term a lot, but I never really understood what people were trying to
• 13:02
  get across, but it makes a lot of sense.
• 13:04
  Right?
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  As the world goes more independent contractor, freelancer, and people are leaving these large
• 13:11
  agencies and going off on their own, it has created this space now where most businesses
• 13:17
  don't need a full time marketing team or agency with them.
• 13:21
  They need someone to come in, help them set up some systems, and then be available for them
• 13:26
  should they need that shot in the arm, a little booster, if you will, down the road, to to keep
• 13:32
  them aligned, a new product rollout or something.
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  Because most of it, you know, especially if you're just selling products or you have a
• 13:37
  service or a restaurant, you can set up your website and most of your marketing and just let
• 13:40
  it run, and it's never going to really change except maybe during the holidays, you wanna do
• 13:44
  something differently.
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  And then you can easily be available for those kind of campaigns.
• 13:48
  I think that's a really awesome way, one, for you to run your business and, two, for
• 13:53
  companies to lower their cost on the marketing side in that where there may not be a huge
• 13:59
  budget.
• 14:00
  That's right.
• 14:01
  That's exactly right.
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  And, I mean, it's not all about money.
• 14:03
  I'm sure you know that.
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  But there there is such a there's such a strong time to value thing in the world that we're
• 14:08
  sort of creating, now where, you know, if you wanted to spend 6 months with a with a
• 14:14
  consultant who's worked with Fortune 500 companies, please.
• 14:17
  Like, if you got the budget, go if you feel like that that's valuable, go do that.
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  But, you know, I still have clients who will call me a a year or two afterwards and say,
• 14:26
  hey.
• 14:27
  Remember this thing that we did?
• 14:28
  We have a new iteration of that.
• 14:29
  Can you come back in and help us refine this or, or bring it to life again?
• 14:33
  And, it's just about providing that value early on, so that eventually you're their first call.
• 14:39
  And, you know, if I can't help, then I'm I'll say, here's the person that you need to call.
• 14:44
  But at the end of the day, that's all small business owners are looking for is, how can I
• 14:49
  get the most value out of this so that my business can move on to the next phase?
• 14:54
  How can my business go from where we are today, get unstuck, untangled, and really have a brand
• 14:59
  that we're super proud of.
• 15:02
  Really incredible.
• 15:03
  So, Charlie, you're two years into your, you know, small business journey.
• 15:08
  What have you learned about your own business that's made you a better resource for these
• 15:15
  other small business owners that are now your clients?
• 15:18
  Oh, man.
• 15:20
  Some of it is literally just time.
• 15:22
  Like, you don't know until you get into it and, and learn the hard way.
• 15:26
  You know?
• 15:26
  You get burned by a couple of clients, and you have to adjust your contracts and, you know,
• 15:30
  make sure language is clear and everything is spelled out and all of that.
• 15:33
  We don't have, we don't have to go into that because I think all of us have experienced that
• 15:36
  in in some way, shape, form, or fashion.
• 15:38
  You know, I think one of the most valuable things I did early on, and I I didn't come up
• 15:42
  with this, you know, on my own.
• 15:44
  I'm sure I heard it from somebody else.
• 15:45
  But about six months into my journey, rather than say out loud to everybody into the world,
• 15:51
  here's exactly what I do.
• 15:52
  I went to each of my clients at the time.
• 15:53
  I had about a half dozen.
• 15:55
  And unprompted, I just said, hey.
• 15:56
  Can you describe to me what I do for you in your words?
• 16:01
  That gave me such a different understanding of the services that I was providing and the value
• 16:05
  that I was giving them, and it totally shifted everything that I did in 2025.
• 16:09
  And now, today, the the next iteration of that is is being built, so to speak, in the, in the
• 16:16
  form of all of these, you know, sprints and, and workshops that I'm able to do for these
• 16:20
  small business owners.
• 16:21
  So, I think listening to listening to your customers is one of the most important things.
• 16:26
  And it's not just when I'm actually doing the work.
• 16:28
  It's it's listening to, you know, their learning about their industry and and letting
• 16:34
  them be the expert and educate me a little bit so that I can say, hey.
• 16:37
  You know, this other industry is doing this.
• 16:39
  I'll bet you there's some opportunity there.
• 16:42
  I think just from a practical side, I wasn't I I think all of us go into it with the idea that
• 16:48
  we're gonna somehow blow up and make, you know, $600,000 in a year just because we, you know,
• 16:53
  showed up and did all of the work.
• 16:56
  You know, some of this is just marathon style mentality where it can't just be about making
• 17:00
  it month to month or paycheck to paycheck or or whatever it is.
• 17:05
  I would say one of the biggest wins I had is I hired a really, really good accountant that I
• 17:09
  can, I can call anytime and be like, hey?
• 17:11
  Can I write this off?
• 17:12
  Or, am I about to step in it?
• 17:14
  Or what is what is my quarterly actually supposed to be?
• 17:17
  But, you know, having them as an extension of my businesses has been absolutely invaluable.
• 17:23
  I would say too, the probably the last thing, in this regard is, you know, we put a lot of
• 17:29
  stock in, remote work, and I think that that's an awesome way that we get to function today
• 17:34
  where we're not beholden to borders.
• 17:35
  We're not beholden to ZIP codes or or states or anything else.
• 17:39
  Right?
• 17:39
  I think one of the most valuable things that I have done is I found local people, local
• 17:45
  networking groups, masterminds, etcetera, to get involved in to sort of ground me to what's
• 17:50
  actually happening in my backyard.
• 17:52
  And I'm not trying to be, you know, the Nashville marketing guy or, you know, the just
• 17:57
  work in the state of Tennessee.
• 17:59
  I have clients all over the place.
• 18:00
  But that's been great to have, you know, just some local voices that I can get together with
• 18:04
  once or twice a month and bounce ideas off of.
• 18:08
  We're solving their problems.
• 18:09
  They're solving my problems.
• 18:10
  You know, you can do anything in a vacuum for long enough until it just, you know, sort of
• 18:14
  becomes an echo chamber.
• 18:16
  So, you know, having some of those those local voices who are not in my industry, by the way,
• 18:22
  has has been probably the biggest win that I've had over the last couple of years.
• 18:26
  And, so the more voices I surround myself with, the more, I think the more well rounded and the
• 18:32
  more well versed I am in just the world of business.
• 18:35
  And it's also opened some great doors too, you know, for for new clients or repeat business
• 18:39
  or, you know, whatever else happens to come my way.
• 18:43
  Yeah.
• 18:44
  Some great advice there for everyone.
• 18:46
  You know?
• 18:46
  Listen to your customers.
• 18:48
  Hire a good accountant, and stay connected, right, both locally and with your people and
• 18:55
  and also having, you know, some different voices in your life.
• 18:58
  It's very easy in the age of the guru, right, to, kinda put all your eggs into one basket
• 19:05
  only to find out that that basket was full of holes.
• 19:09
  And and I think that being well rounded, like you said, is a great idea.
• 19:13
  I definitely take a lot of advice from different areas and people who are outside of
• 19:18
  the industry.
• 19:18
  There's not many people swimming.
• 19:20
  There's a lot of podcasters, but there's not a lot of people that are invested into it as we
• 19:24
  are and building a media and promotion company for other businesses through that.
• 19:29
  And so it's important for me to listen to my customers.
• 19:33
  You know?
• 19:33
  How can we serve you?
• 19:34
  What are your pain points?
• 19:36
  And and how would you describe me?
• 19:37
  Because I think as business owners, we get stuck in, like, what we think we do.
• 19:42
  And it's very easy to to stay there when actually the world around you and the people
• 19:48
  who are paying you think of you in, you know, a completely different light.
• 19:52
  And I think that can really open your mind to what you are and who you are and change how you
• 19:58
  start to approach your business.
• 19:59
  So some great advice there, Charlie.
• 20:01
  I really appreciate your time.
• 20:03
  Appreciate you jumping on with me today.
• 20:04
  I've had an absolute blast talking here.
• 20:06
  Anything you wanna plug?
• 20:07
  We got the website scrolling across the bottom.
• 20:09
  Clarityovereverything.com.
• 20:11
  Anything I missed?
• 20:13
  No.
• 20:14
  That's it.
• 20:14
  You can go and learn about some of the some of the work that I do and have done.
• 20:19
  I'll tell you this.
• 20:20
  You know, my goal for, 2026 is to work with 26 brands.
• 20:24
  We're halfway through the year, and I'm already up to 14.
• 20:27
  So, I'm I love, that that was a nonrevenue goal that I set for myself to to, you know, just get
• 20:33
  in front of more people.
• 20:34
  And I made a very, a very early decision not to become, industry specific or niche specific.
• 20:40
  I knew the kind of business owner and the kind of leader I wanted to work with, but I didn't
• 20:45
  wanna just get tied down to one particular lane or anything like that.
• 20:48
  So, anyways, if that can be valuable to, any of your listeners, if you wanna do a, a sprint
• 20:54
  workshop audit or if you need somebody in your corner to help you solve some, some problems
• 20:58
  for, you know, any period of time, check out the website, fill out the form.
• 21:02
  There's a free PDF there where you can do a self assessment and see how clear and aligned
• 21:06
  you actually are in your, branding and marketing efforts too, just to give you a
• 21:10
  little snapshot of, where your business is today.
• 21:14
  Awesome.
• 21:15
  Charlie Sells, thanks for being on the show today, and thank you for being part of the
• 21:19
  scene.
• 21:20
  Absolutely.
• 21:21
  Thanks for having me, Bubba.