Latest / The Starfish Storytellers / Season 5 Episode 4: Standing Out in a 5-Second World - Brand Clarity and the Entrepreneur’s Story

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Season 5 Episode 4: Standing Out in a 5-Second World - Brand Clarity and the Entrepreneur’s Story · The Starfish Storytellers

0:00
Welcome to the starfish storytellers the podcast
0:03
that makes a difference one story at a time by
0:05
bringing storytelling to life One of the clients
0:11
that I worked with was a summer day camp and
0:15
They had been messaging about their lake literally
0:18
for decades, which was understandable Because
0:22
their lake is 50 acres. So it is literal and
0:26
it's a 350 acre property with a 50 acre lake
0:31
in the midst of it and all the activities around
0:33
the lake so you can understand and this is the
0:36
part where I think people get a little confused
0:38
about what's meaningful to me versus what's meaningful
0:42
to my clients and they have hit a wall they've
0:46
been around since the 1950s they used to be the
0:48
gold standard of a summer day camp this is not
0:51
overnight camp so I just want to make sure to
0:54
clarify that But here's what happened. So the
0:57
first thing we did is I helped them put together
1:00
an online survey, and we asked a series of questions.
1:05
And two of the questions had to do, one was around
1:09
their messaging, and the other was around their
1:11
logo. And they got an amazing response. 100 families
1:15
responded to this online survey, which is, by
1:19
the way, what you want. 100 is a really good
1:22
indicator because it gives you enough data. And
1:25
one of the questions was, what's the number one
1:27
reason you send your kids there? And out of a
1:31
hundred people, only two people mentioned the
1:35
lake, which I thought was really incredible because
1:40
you're literally decades, right? They had literally
1:43
messaged. And then the other thing we asked them
1:46
is, what do you think about the logo? And out
1:49
of a hundred people, I can't even tell you, there
1:52
were people literally... I don't know how many
1:55
people said what logo. They literally didn't
1:58
even see the logo. And that really ties into
2:01
the fact that we see the things that are important
2:03
to us and the things that are not, they really
2:07
become invisible. And so it turned out that what
2:12
parents actually cared about was that their kids
2:15
had fun, they took risks, and they gained confidence
2:20
in themselves. It was all about the activities
2:24
in and around the lake, but the lake was not
2:26
the story. The story was their child growing
2:31
up becoming a small, their child becoming more
2:34
independent and a strong and confident swimmer.
2:37
They actually have one of the best swim programs.
2:40
in Northeast Pennsylvania, which is where they
2:42
are. So as a result of all of this, and there
2:45
was obviously, there was a lot more work. I'm
2:47
giving you that really shortened version, but
2:50
I interviewed everyone and the staff and the
2:53
director. And I read, by the way, dozens of letters
2:56
from parents. It was really quite something.
2:59
And at the end of the day, the core of what they
3:02
do and their new tagline reflects this, is that
3:05
this is the place. where small kids do big things.
3:13
And then the logo was also changed, and instead
3:16
of a boat in the middle of a lake, it's now a
3:20
child, and it's from the back. You see the back
3:23
of the child with their arms up, and we do it
3:26
purposely so you can't tell if it's a boy or
3:27
a girl. And they've got their arms up, and they
3:30
look, they're about to jump. and they could be
3:32
jumping from the edge of a pool or the edge of
3:35
a boat or the edge of the floating park that's
3:39
the inflatable water park that is also a feature.
3:42
And so it's really, you know, what was really
3:45
interesting about that is that it goes back to
3:49
this idea that you can't read the label from
3:51
inside the jar. You get too close to it. And
3:54
then what happens typically, the reason for a
3:58
rebrand is that typically you hit a wall. And
4:02
that wall is you're no longer able to attract
4:06
as many kids. And in their case, they still had
4:09
open spots in July. After the rebrand, they had
4:14
a wait list in March. Hello, my name is Liana
4:23
Henry and welcome to the Starfish Storytellers.
4:27
I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group and your host.
4:30
I'm passionate about storytelling and on a mission
4:32
to raise up the next generation of storytellers.
4:35
We're called the starfish storytellers after
4:38
the moral of the starfish story, which centers
4:40
on the power of one. Because no matter how big
4:43
the challenge, every action matters. One step,
4:47
one starfish, and one story at a time. Every
4:50
episode, we'll welcome a new storyteller who
4:52
will inspire and connect with you. So thanks
4:54
for tuning in. Now let's get started. Today's
4:59
episode is Standing Out in a 5 Second World,
5:03
Brand Clarity and the Entrepreneur's Story. And
5:05
with me today is Orly Zui. Orly is the author
5:09
of Ready Launch Brand, the Lean Marketing Guide
5:11
for Startups, which was endorsed by marketing
5:14
legend Seth Godin and became the number one new
5:17
business release on Amazon in April 2021. She's
5:21
also the author of the upcoming book, Why Not
5:24
Me? The Female Guide for Entrepreneurship. which
5:27
will be published in 2026. Orly works with entrepreneurs
5:31
and organizations to help them clarify their
5:34
brand messaging and stand out in what she calls
5:37
a five second world, where businesses only have
5:40
moments to capture attention and communicate
5:42
value. She has spoken at leading universities
5:46
like Wharton. Rutgers and Princeton, and her
5:49
work focuses on helping businesses turn fuzzy
5:51
messaging into clear, compelling stories that
5:55
connect with the right audience. So welcome to
5:57
the Starfish Storytellers. Orly, we're so happy
6:00
you're here. Thank you so much. Thanks for having
6:03
me, Liana. I'm looking forward to our conversation.
6:06
So Orly, we kick off every episode by having
6:09
our guests introduce themselves in their own
6:11
words. Would you share a little bit about your
6:14
journey and the work that you do today? Yeah.
6:18
So first of all, I'll give you a little bit of
6:20
background. I actually started as a fine artist.
6:23
But I quickly discovered that I prefer solving
6:26
other people's creative problems rather than
6:29
my own. And that led me to earn a degree in graphic
6:32
design from one of the top design schools in
6:35
the country. I then founded and led an award
6:38
-winning design and marketing communications
6:40
firm for 14 years. Our logos were published in
6:44
leading design journals and our brochure, our
6:48
promotional brochure was featured in a two -page
6:50
spread in guerrilla marketing. So we were very
6:53
successful. And then, of course, things, life
6:57
happens. I had two children. Everything went
7:01
to digital while that was happening. And when
7:04
I went back into work full time, what I realized
7:07
is that I really did not want to become a web
7:10
designer. I wanted to use all that knowledge.
7:13
By then I'd had 20 years of experience in design
7:16
and marketing communications. I was a very strong
7:19
designer and I could, using those skills in a
7:21
different way really appealed to me. So at that
7:24
point, I actually wrote myself a mission statement
7:27
to determine what my next career move would be.
7:32
And I opened a consulting practice. At that time
7:34
it was focused on brand identity because that
7:37
was a leftover. from my design and marketing
7:40
communications firm. And then I had an aha moment,
7:44
which was when I watched the Ted Talk of Simon
7:47
Sinek and the Golden Circle. And that whole idea
7:51
about the why and speaking from outside in versus
7:55
inside out and the different companies who did
7:57
that and how they could shift perception and
8:01
how important it was to start with what mattered
8:03
to your clients and not what matters to you.
8:06
That's when I realized that what I really wanted
8:10
to do was to help companies find their why. So
8:13
in 2010, I stopped doing brand identity work
8:16
and I shifted into brand strategy. And then when
8:20
my eldest went off to college, I went back to
8:24
school and earned an MBA. And I did that so I
8:29
could also help startups get clear on their business
8:32
models. in addition to developing their messaging
8:35
and improve their user experience. So my focus
8:38
really moved from doing campaigns, marketing
8:42
campaigns, which is what we were doing as a marketing
8:45
communications firm, to focusing more on how
8:48
do I show up online? How do I talk about my brand?
8:53
Who is my client? All the things that are part
8:56
of building a sustainable brand. And then I decided
9:00
to focus on startups because the best time to
9:04
clarify your why is at the start of your business.
9:07
And the reason I, and then that led me to writing
9:11
my book. So after I got my MBA, I had been thinking
9:15
about writing a book for a while. And just to
9:17
put the book in perspective, my father was actually
9:20
a struggling entrepreneur. I come from a long
9:23
line of entrepreneurs on my father's side. And
9:26
my father was never a successful entrepreneur.
9:29
And that really had a huge impact on our family
9:31
and on me as a child. And by then, by that point,
9:36
when I was writing the book, I learned that by
9:39
year five, 90 % of startups fail. And by the
9:43
way, the number one reason that they fail is
9:45
no market need. And that's really my piece. This
9:47
is why I focused there because... There's no
9:50
market need because you don't really know who
9:52
you are. You don't really know who needs it.
9:55
And you don't really know how your solution is
9:58
aligned with the problem that you're solving.
10:00
And so that really became my, the North star
10:04
for me is to focus on helping startups beat the
10:08
odds. And, and I will say that, you know, it's
10:12
coming full circle here. My dad, who of course
10:14
has long since retired. When my bill came out,
10:17
I sent him a signed copy and he said, He wished
10:20
he'd had my book when he had his business. That's
10:25
great. That's great. Again, thank you for your
10:29
story. I think what stood out was really looking
10:32
at the branding and really looking at the clarity
10:36
in that branding. And I think that's your mission
10:38
now. We know that in a crowded marketplace, Businesses
10:42
are competing for attention and Brands that rise
10:45
above the noise are going to be the ones that
10:47
understand who they are who they serve and why
10:51
they matter Storytelling plays a big part in
10:54
that. I think it's not just like you said it's
10:57
not just about logos and taglines People need
11:00
to understand your purpose and your values and
11:04
the really the problem you're solving for them
11:08
And I think brand can communicate that clearly
11:11
it's going to be easier for their customers to
11:13
recognize and trust and remember them. I think
11:16
you nailed it. I think with the five second world,
11:18
clarity becomes really powerful. Yeah. Yeah.
11:22
And you need to also understand that the context
11:25
that is really important here, which is that
11:27
we are being literally overwhelmed by tens of
11:30
thousands. of daily marketing messages and they're
11:34
coming at us 24 -7. And what I have learned through
11:38
working with hundreds of founders is that it's
11:42
never about being louder. Louder doesn't get
11:44
you noticed. It's about being clearer. Yeah.
11:47
Yeah. And you've built your foundation, your
11:51
mantra on that five second world. reality that
11:55
we live in. I know when I got my master's degree,
11:57
I remember having a professor in a class talk
12:00
about it's a Google world and we all have the
12:03
attention span of a goldfish, which is about
12:05
seven seconds. It's, that's the reality. Attention
12:08
spans are short. When you're working with businesses
12:12
and they're trying to stand out, what are they
12:17
getting wrong? What should they be focusing on
12:20
primarily? That is such a great question because
12:24
too often I think businesses, especially at the
12:28
beginning, they try to do everything. And the
12:30
first thing they try to do is design a logo,
12:32
which I just find that so odd because a logo
12:35
is shorthand for your brand and you haven't yet
12:38
built your brand. Don't even do that. Just focus
12:41
more on what the name is because the name is
12:43
important. But the goal is to figure out if you
12:47
think about, think of it this way, a logo is
12:49
like the, is the bow on the package. And the
12:52
bow has to indicate what's in the package. And
12:55
I always think of Tiffany's, they actually train
12:58
their people to tie the bow in such a way that
13:02
when the customer opens it, they can undo the
13:06
bow in one move. That's, yeah, I know, it's amazing.
13:11
But the point here is that what's important is
13:14
figure out what's inside the box first. because
13:18
the logo needs to represent what's in the box.
13:22
It is not the story. It is like an indicator.
13:26
Oh, I get there's something going on here that
13:31
it's giving me a hint of what's coming. And so
13:34
that's the first thing I see. The other thing
13:36
is stop trying to appeal to everybody because
13:40
especially in the beginning, oh, everybody's
13:42
a client. Everybody needs what I do. No, they
13:44
really don't. And even if they did. Do you have
13:48
a hundred thousand a year minimum to market to
13:51
all those people? No. So the advice I always
13:54
give them is pick one and pick the one that you
13:57
actually want to work with. So the first thing
13:59
I do when I work with my clients, we talk about
14:02
who's your ideal client and why are they your
14:04
ideal client? A lot of times I think businesses,
14:08
because they jump in with both feet and the goal
14:10
of course is at this point, I just want to keep
14:13
the lights on. So they take work from everywhere,
14:15
which is fine. but there is an ideal client that
14:20
fits your process. And that's the part in the
14:24
story that I hear from my clients. What I love
14:26
the most is hearing the way their process solves
14:31
a specific problem they've identified that their
14:35
ideal client struggles with. If you don't do
14:38
that, you become a solution looking for a problem.
14:43
And if you try to speak to everyone, you connect
14:47
with no one. I know you said you work with startups
14:50
and, and I know for us it's been each year that
14:54
passes is a refining that happens. Right. So
14:57
yes, when we left the gate, it was, yes, we're
15:02
going to do it all. And then as time has passed,
15:05
that value prop has evolved and I'm all for work
15:09
to your strengths. Don't. do things that you're
15:12
not. I think to walk the line between, yes, I
15:16
can do these things and imposter syndrome. And
15:21
as an entrepreneur, there are days when I am
15:24
building the parachute on the way down because
15:27
I see the opportunity and I see what's possible,
15:31
but you're right. I think it's like the clarity
15:34
that you're helping your clients with is really
15:36
just understanding. who you are and I think your
15:40
story also really goes back to I know I think
15:46
people want what I have but did I ask them and
15:50
do you know and what do they really need and
15:54
being willing to work and do that and provide
15:57
the things that people need So I've noticed that
16:00
market research is something that doesn't happen
16:03
usually till later. And honestly, if you can
16:06
do it sooner, it will save you so much trouble.
16:09
And I do I did just did wanna just say that although
16:13
I started working specifically with startups,
16:16
I'm now really working more with founders and
16:18
entrepreneurs in early stage businesses, but
16:21
not necessarily at the very beginning. And the
16:23
reason for that, and I did wanna clarify that,
16:26
is at the very beginning, they're not even ready
16:28
for this. As much as I would love to help people
16:31
at the very beginning, as long as it's within
16:33
those first five years, because by year five,
16:36
90 % are gonna fail, if I can get to them before
16:40
that, I can really help them. And I think what
16:43
typically happens is by year three, the business
16:46
hits a wall because you run out of referrals.
16:50
At that point, all of a sudden you realize, oh,
16:52
we're not getting as much business. Things have
16:54
really shifted. And also by then. You've also
16:58
had your first spurt of growing pains and you
17:00
go, we really don't do this. We really are much
17:03
better in this. And that takes time. And I always
17:05
say, don't worry about it. You'll figure this
17:07
out. Founders by their very nature. They're very
17:09
passionate and they really want to, they want
17:12
to help people and they want to do something
17:14
that's going to make a difference. But there's
17:17
nothing wrong with pivoting when it needs to
17:20
happen. And I think you're right. The market
17:22
research that you might do out of the gate is
17:25
going to be very different, I think, than the
17:27
market research you're doing at year two, three,
17:30
four, five, six, seven, because the landscape
17:32
is, I think, always evolving as well. When we
17:35
kicked off our business, we were coming out of
17:39
the tech layoffs of 23. And so it was one vision.
17:44
Now we're in a very different place. And so we're
17:47
seeing, even though the core is the same execution
17:51
and that's what I've built my business on, but
17:54
I'm finding that the needs of my clients are
17:57
just a little bit different. And so that service
17:59
has to pivot too. And I think that we. I recently
18:04
got an email from you talking about core fundamentals
18:07
of a brand where you talked about things like
18:10
purpose and audience and competitive advantage
18:12
and visual identity. And so can you talk a little
18:15
bit about why those fundamentals are important
18:17
and what happens when businesses skip over that
18:20
foundational work? Well, first of all, when you
18:23
skip over it, it comes back. You can't really
18:26
get away from it. So you can do it now. You can
18:30
do it later. or you can learn about it after
18:32
you close your business. Honest to goodness,
18:35
if it really boils down to who am I, who do I
18:38
help and what do they get from working with me?
18:41
And I know that sounds really simplistic, but
18:43
I'll tell you it's some of the hardest work because
18:46
you have to leave somebody out and you have to
18:49
be willing to say, Okay, I can do these 20 things
18:53
but really it's these three things that are not
18:56
just things I like to do want to do and good
18:58
at doing but those are also the three things
19:01
that are aligned with the problem I'm solving
19:03
for a client. So there's this constant need to
19:06
look at alignment. Is my why aligned with my
19:11
client's need, desire? Is it actually understandable
19:16
by them? Because if nobody understands it, They're
19:19
not going to buy it. And like I said, the number
19:21
one reason that startups fail is no market need.
19:24
By the way, the number two reason, I figure I
19:27
would tell this to the listeners, number two
19:29
reason is the wrong team. And the number three
19:33
reason, which you'll not be surprised to hear,
19:35
is that they run out of money. Yeah, that's usually
19:38
what I hear is a lot of businesses don't make
19:40
it because of, for financial reasons. But they
19:42
do that because they haven't done, so it's a
19:45
catch -22, right? So if you don't know who you
19:47
serve, and you don't really, you're not having
19:49
to align what you do with somebody's actual need
19:52
that you can charge for. That's the other. So
19:55
you have to also, it's not enough that people,
19:57
because everybody will tell you, oh, what a great
19:59
idea. That's very nice. But will they actually
20:01
pay money for it? That's very different. And
20:04
so sometimes I think, especially as women, we
20:07
have a tendency to downplay our zone of genius.
20:10
And we think it comes so easily to us. It can't
20:12
be that important or that valuable. And that's
20:15
asking the completely wrong question, right?
20:17
Because you really need to be looking at what's
20:20
the problem solving and is how am I transforming
20:23
the life of the people who are going through
20:25
that process? So the clearer you are and the
20:30
more streamlined you are, the easier it'll be
20:34
for people to find you. Forget remembering you,
20:37
right? That takes a long time. But if you can
20:40
get clear on your core, who am I, who needs it,
20:44
and what did they get from working with you,
20:46
and you understand that why at a really core
20:50
level, and then you message around that. Consistently
20:55
across platforms on your website every time your
20:58
elevator pitch, you know all the pieces where
21:01
you interact with potential clients eventually
21:04
and especially because of the algorithms on social
21:07
media eventually That's what you become known
21:11
for Yeah, yeah getting into maybe talking a little
21:17
bit more about the fuzzy messaging you mentioned
21:19
that And then I want to get into female entrepreneurship
21:23
for sure. I met you at a marketing meetings,
21:25
marketing connect meeting and networking meeting.
21:27
And I remember that day you did talk about turning
21:30
fuzzy messaging into gold, into LinkedIn gold.
21:33
And you were talking about LinkedIn profiles.
21:36
And I love that. I think businesses struggle
21:38
with explaining what they do. And we've just
21:40
what we've been talking about. So can you talk
21:43
a little bit more about fuzzy messaging? And
21:45
when a company comes to you, their messaging
21:47
isn't really clear. How do you help them refine
21:50
that? into something that's simple and compelling.
21:53
I find that's, I find even for us, I think that's,
21:55
it's challenging. It is definitely challenging.
21:57
Look, it took me a long time to even be able,
22:00
and it wasn't the, I'm not even the person who
22:02
said I'm a facilitator of light bulb moments.
22:05
That was a colleague of mine, a friend and colleague
22:07
who'd known me for a long time. And she says,
22:08
Orly, I know what you do. You're a facilitator
22:11
of light bulb moments. And people would tell
22:12
me like, oh, I just had this aha experience.
22:15
And the thing is that we already know the answer.
22:19
The problem is that we get caught up in what
22:22
we think we should be doing, or we have this
22:26
idea of what people want, and those two things
22:30
don't necessarily align. One of the things I
22:34
always tell my clients to do is go ask the people
22:37
who've worked with you. Ask them. You can do
22:40
a Google form. It takes you no time at all. You
22:42
ask three questions, three things that you get
22:45
from working with. Even getting that kind of
22:47
data, which I've done, by the way, because we
22:50
tend to get really caught up in a lot of minutiae.
22:54
And really, if you can step back and ask your
22:57
clients for feedback, and even if you don't have
22:59
clients, ask people who you think are going to
23:02
be good clients for you, what are they looking
23:05
for in a in a leadership coach or whatever it
23:08
is. And so what you really want is to get clarity
23:12
for yourself first. And then you're able to really
23:18
communicate it. I would say that the prime example
23:21
of where things like where the sort of things
23:24
go off the rails is your homepage. I would say
23:28
websites are like number one. I could talk about
23:33
LinkedIn too, but For me, the website, so I land
23:36
on your homepage and here's what happens. I am
23:38
overwhelmed with stuff. You're talking about
23:41
all these things I don't care about. You've got
23:43
pop -ups and, oh, sign up for my newsletter and
23:46
here, download this. I know nothing about you.
23:49
Most people, you know, and I'm just talking about
23:51
people who just happen on your website. Now,
23:53
yeah, if you send somebody to your website and
23:56
they already know something about you, but even
23:59
then... It feels very intrusive to have all these
24:03
things popping up at me. And in fact, there's
24:06
only two things that I want to know when I land
24:08
on your homepage. Why am I here? And why should
24:11
I care? That's it. Why am I here? Why should
24:14
I care? And this is why we go back to, if you
24:18
understand who you serve and the transformation
24:20
you provide, start there. Start with the outcome.
24:25
People get really stuck on the what and the how.
24:27
And what on the how and how is all about you.
24:30
What I do, how I do it, that's your why. That's
24:33
your information. But that doesn't help me, right?
24:36
Because we're not working together yet. So what
24:39
I need to know in the beginning is what am I
24:42
going to get? And so there's two things that
24:45
happen when you start from that place. First
24:47
of all, it shows that you are truly in the business
24:51
of serving, not selling. It also shows that you
24:55
get my pain because you've identified a specific
24:59
client with a specific problem. And then the
25:02
language is all around how you help them. And
25:05
that's very powerful when you tell a story for
25:10
a client who has struggled with something that
25:12
I can relate to. And all of a sudden I'm like,
25:15
oh, yeah, I can see that. And of course, testimonials.
25:19
Big fan of testimonials and I'm always surprised
25:22
when people don't use them Because there's nothing
25:25
better than having somebody you worked with tell
25:27
other people about their experience with you
25:29
Yeah, I can I hear you with the web page and
25:33
website and I know Now you're saying and I'm
25:36
like, yeah, we really have to update ours, but
25:38
I I noticed lately It'd be interesting to just
25:41
get your take on this. I noticed lately. I'm
25:44
a marketer and marketers are a dozen. So you
25:47
have to have a differentiator. So my differentiator
25:50
is storytelling, but storytelling is not a pillar.
25:54
It's the thread. It needs to be the thread. And
25:57
the way that I laid out my website, I laid it
26:01
out as a pillar. So I know that needs to change
26:02
because that needs to be the thread that runs
26:04
through everything we do. One of the things that
26:07
I've noticed lately, and I detest this because
26:10
I'm a content person and I'm all about authentic
26:13
content is People are really leading into the
26:17
over salesy language. I'm noticing this a lot
26:20
I'm noticing it a lot with people's like zoom
26:22
backgrounds. I'm noticing it a lot with Landing
26:26
on somebody's webpage. Like you said just having
26:28
these like pop -ups that are trying to sell me
26:31
something and I find that isn't going to You're
26:36
not going to get rewarded by the Google algorithm
26:38
necessarily for that. Anyway, the algorithm is
26:41
looking for quality content anyway. And. But
26:45
more than the algorithm, your client, your potential
26:48
client, your lead, your prospect, they need to
26:50
know who you are and what you do. I agree. And
26:53
as you're talking, I'm listening. I'm thinking,
26:54
I'm like, yeah, I definitely try to talk about
26:57
the pain points, but I definitely have used the
26:59
website to tell our story and. I think what you're
27:03
saying is, if I understand it correctly, is there's
27:07
a place and a time for that and there's a way
27:09
and there's a place to limit some of that, but
27:11
that it really does need to address the pain
27:14
point. How do you address the pain point without
27:16
getting so salesy? So let me just let me say
27:19
that for me, I've really I've leaned into using
27:24
Times Square as the image and Images, by the
27:28
way, people are really misusing images. It's
27:30
not just, hey, fun people or stock photos or...
27:34
The image has to also be aligned with your message.
27:37
So my message is all about cutting through the
27:39
noise. And it turns out that Times Square is
27:42
literally... It's recognized as one of the most
27:48
busiest places for advertising. It's like the
27:50
go -to for advertising, right? The epitome of
27:52
noise, yes. It's the epitome of noise. In fact,
27:55
if you were standing in the middle of Times Square,
27:57
you'd be surrounded by close to 300 Buy Me messages.
28:01
And nobody sees all of those. You maybe notice
28:05
like maybe six or seven, and maybe you remember
28:07
a couple of them. No way you could remember 300
28:10
messages. So for me, And I've been using that
28:14
image for about 10 years now. And the reason
28:17
I like it is because it speaks to the whole noise
28:20
thing without me even saying anything. Because
28:23
it is literally as if each of us is standing
28:26
in the middle of Times Square trying. to be heard.
28:31
It is the perfect storm of advertising. That
28:33
is what Times Square is known for. And now they
28:36
have those digital ad things. Oh my God. And
28:38
they've got, I don't even know how many they
28:40
have on each of those. And I forget how many
28:42
they have, maybe seven or eight or something.
28:44
But so the idea is that if you want to talk about
28:48
clarity, you need to be in a noisy place. And
28:51
then you need to think about, okay, how am I
28:54
heard? And repetition, a simple message that
28:59
cuts through the noise that you repeat over and
29:01
over again on every platform, on your website,
29:05
social media. Your elevator pitch should also
29:09
have that so that you become known as that person.
29:12
So when people think, oh, I need someone to help
29:15
me cut through the noise. I need someone to make
29:18
my fuzzy clear. Hopefully they're thinking of
29:20
me because they've seen me also post on LinkedIn.
29:24
So getting back to LinkedIn, because you had
29:26
mentioned it. What you post is really important
29:29
because what you want is engagement. So the name
29:32
of the game now is all about engagement. So on
29:35
LinkedIn, it's about keeping people scrolling
29:38
on your profile and where the five second piece
29:41
comes from. So at the top of your profile, people
29:44
spend no more than seven seconds and on average,
29:47
it's more like five seconds. On your homepage,
29:50
people spend on average six seconds before they
29:53
make a go, no go decision. you only have a few
29:57
seconds. Why waste them on things that have already
30:01
been shown that are not going to increase engagement?
30:04
Because on your homepage, you want people to
30:07
click, which is why you don't want to tell them
30:09
everything up front. What's the reason to click
30:11
if you tell me everything up front? I want to
30:14
discover myself. I think we forget that we're
30:16
talking to humans. And humans love stories, and
30:21
humans learn through engagement. So you want
30:24
to peak someone's interest so that they want
30:27
to keep clicking and they want to keep scrolling.
30:31
Yeah, great advice. Great advice. You've already
30:37
written a book. You've written more than one
30:39
book, but you have an upcoming book. Why Not
30:42
Me? The Female Guide for Entrepreneurship is
30:45
coming out this year. Yes, I'm actually working
30:48
with a copy editor right now on the manuscript.
30:51
So that's just it's getting It's close. It's
30:53
very close. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you.
30:57
And when I say the title, it's funny because
30:59
I always say, why not me? Because the emphasis
31:02
on the not, it's so meaningful to women founders
31:05
because every one of the 44 women I interviewed
31:09
for the book has struggled with that. Why me?
31:14
The why me piece. And what have they said? When
31:19
they say that they're struggling with that, what
31:20
have they said? It's funny because the title
31:23
actually came from one of my interviews. And
31:26
the woman I interviewed who lives in Northern
31:28
Ireland, she's now a top UK, LinkedIn voice in
31:32
the UK. And when she was first starting, and
31:35
this is a little side note here, which is more
31:38
than half the women I interviewed are also moms.
31:41
And so their stories also have to do with what
31:44
it's like to be a mom printer, which I was myself,
31:47
so I can really relate to that. As far as I know,
31:49
there are not a lot of books that actually talk
31:52
about that or show what that looks like or even
31:54
all you have to do is hear their story. So here's
31:57
this woman in Northern Ireland. She had a full
32:00
-time job. She was launching this new business
32:02
and she had three children under the age of I
32:05
want to say nine or eight and she was doing all
32:09
of this right. And so she kept saying to herself,
32:12
like, why me? Who am I to do all this? And then
32:14
finally she said, why not me? Why not me? And
32:17
that's, I can really relate to that because with
32:19
my first book, I spent a lot of time second guessing
32:22
myself, who am I to write this book? So hello,
32:25
you've worked with all these founders. You come
32:27
from a line of entrepreneurs. You've been an
32:30
entrepreneur your entire career. You've had things
32:33
published in journals and. I've been interviewed.
32:37
At a certain point, we have to give ourselves
32:39
a little bit of grace. And so now, of course,
32:42
this woman that I mentioned, she's met the king.
32:45
She's been to 10 Downing Street. The confidence,
32:48
you fake it till you make it, but you're not
32:50
really faking it. You actually know what you're
32:53
talking about. It's just that it takes time for
32:56
it to... materialized. And so we have to be patient
33:00
with ourselves, which I think women founders
33:02
have a hard time with, because we're always saying,
33:05
oh, I should have, could have, would have. And
33:07
I have wiped that out from, wiped it out of my
33:10
vocabulary. Every time I hear it, I'm like, nope,
33:13
nope, no. You're here in this moment and you
33:16
are doing the best you can. And everything that
33:18
you've learned up till now has brought you to
33:21
this point, which brings me to failure. And failure
33:25
is one of those things that You know, entrepreneurs,
33:29
no entrepreneur has ever been successful 100
33:31
% of the time. That's just not how it works.
33:34
Mistakes, failures, pivoting, all of that's all
33:37
part of the entrepreneur, entrepreneurial journey.
33:41
And if you forget that, you focus, and again,
33:44
as women, we're really good at beating ourselves
33:46
up and saying, oh, I should have done this and
33:49
oh, how could I have done that? The reality is
33:52
that failure teaches us something. And when we
33:54
get stuck on the failure instead of the lesson,
33:58
we literally are paralyzed and we can't move
34:00
forward. So the idea is to look at failure as
34:03
a teacher and that phrase fail often fail fast.
34:07
There's a reason why that has legs because that's
34:11
the whole point of failure. It's not. to stay
34:14
in the failed place, but to say, okay, let me
34:16
step back and look at this. Some of the greatest
34:19
stories come out of failure. In fact, can I share
34:23
one of those from my book? Oh, that would be
34:25
great. It's such a fun story. So we've all heard
34:28
of bubble wrap, right? Oh, yes. It's a great
34:32
fun. Yes, it is. And it's now ubiquitous that
34:37
like Kleenex bubble wrap is like its own, right?
34:39
Yeah. But I bet you, I would guess, I don't,
34:43
I won't bet, but I would guess that you don't
34:45
know what bubble wrap was originally intended
34:47
for. I don't. You mean it wasn't for packing
34:51
your dishes? Nope. Nope. No, it wasn't. That
34:56
is such a fun story. So anyhow, so this is the
34:59
1950s in the U S and an inventor and an engineer,
35:03
one was Swiss, one was American. They came up
35:07
with this idea, they took two pieces of plastic,
35:09
they put air, I don't exactly, I'm not an inventor,
35:11
so I don't know, but they came up with this thing,
35:13
and they're like, wow, this is so cool. And this
35:15
is the 1950s in the US, and wallpaper was all
35:19
the rage. And they thought, what a great idea,
35:22
wallpaper. We're gonna put this on the walls,
35:27
right? Because textured wallpaper, this is such
35:30
a great idea. And when you think about, I know,
35:33
this is two men who do not have children, because
35:36
the living room walls covered in bubble wrap
35:39
with four children under the age of 10, the mind
35:43
literally can't even comprehend. So needless
35:46
to say, they got a resounding no. They're like,
35:48
you got to be kidding. Get out of here. We're
35:50
not doing this. And so here was a complete and
35:53
total failure. They completely failed in their
35:56
original idea. And what they did was what they
36:00
could have done is say, oh, wow, we fail. Let's
36:02
go back to our full time jobs or whatever they
36:05
were doing. Instead, they said, OK, it doesn't
36:08
work for this. Let's look at some other markets.
36:10
What other industries? And they actually looked
36:12
at gardening supply. I think it was like gardening
36:14
centers or anyway, eventually they landed on
36:17
packaging. and the company was just bought for
36:21
billions of dollars. Here's the thing, here's
36:23
a lesson that you can take from bubble wrap.
36:25
Oh, and by the way, I did find a picture of bubble
36:28
wrap covering the walls of a living room and
36:31
it is hysterical. This is the difference between
36:33
an inventor and an entrepreneur. An inventor
36:37
falls in love with their invention. An entrepreneur
36:40
looks to see how can I turn this into a business
36:44
and makes the adjustments for that to happen.
36:48
And inventors get so close to this that they
36:52
can't let it go, even when all the data is pretty
36:56
clear that nobody's going to buy this. So that's
37:00
just one of my favorite stories in the book.
37:02
And the failure is only in the failure to identify
37:05
the right market, which goes back to what I was
37:07
saying before. What do we do? Who do we serve?
37:11
And what did they get? What is the transformation?
37:14
In this case, they transformed the entire industry.
37:17
People were using newspaper before then. So it
37:21
wasn't a failure in the big picture. In the moment,
37:23
it was a failure. So that's why I say that failure
37:28
is a great teacher. And if you're smart and willing
37:32
to let go of your own ego and to say, oh, That
37:36
didn't work, but let me see. Maybe there's another
37:38
industry. There's another application that would
37:40
work. I think that goes back to a couple of different
37:42
things that we were talking about. I think first
37:44
of all, I think you mentioned lessons learned
37:47
and I know as an entrepreneur, as a female entrepreneur,
37:52
you can, I can get into that place of I messed
37:54
up and then want to focus on that. And what I'm
37:59
learning is it. fine if you want to go in your
38:02
bathroom and stomp your feet and shake your head
38:05
but when you get in front of your client it's
38:07
about lessons learned it's about transparency
38:10
it's about areas of improvement and being able
38:14
to do a goodwill take a chance on some goodwill
38:18
and make a change and do something for your client
38:20
don't charge them for something that you messed
38:22
up on or something like that Because it just
38:25
shows, yeah, I'm not, like you said, as an entrepreneur,
38:27
I'm not going to get it right. A hundred percent
38:28
of the time I try, but there's going to be moments
38:32
when I'm going to have to step up and say, Hey,
38:35
this is an area where I didn't, I didn't meet
38:37
that requirement. I've had a couple of recent
38:40
cases where that was the case and my client really
38:43
appreciated that. And I suspect that we'll be
38:45
called back with projects that we've wrapped
38:48
on. So I think staying in that place of lessons
38:52
learned. is really important instead of focusing
38:56
on making a mistake. And I think you're talking
38:59
about brands impact and where's the impact. And
39:04
just going back to that bubble wrap story, they
39:09
pivoted and sometimes it's, I don't even know
39:13
that it's a mistake so much as like we said earlier,
39:16
refinement, the longer I'm doing this, the more
39:19
I learned, the more I know. You know, we refine
39:23
it and in their case They were smart in that
39:27
they went to who they thought that was there
39:29
and this is really an important point because
39:32
They could have just gone ahead and done all
39:34
this spend however much money to create a prototype
39:37
instead They had the original prototype. The
39:40
MVP was very rough limit to tell you but anyway
39:43
they could have actually created the product
39:46
and gotten rolls of it made and then gone to
39:50
and your desires, they would have lost a lot
39:53
of money. So it's also about being willing to
39:59
go to the source thinking, okay, if I've identified
40:02
this as a potential target market, let me go
40:05
to them. Let me go talk to them. Let me see if
40:07
they would be willing to buy this. So when they
40:10
got the resounding no, they took that as okay.
40:14
That's the wrong, that's the wrong client. And
40:17
I think that as entrepreneurs, we need to do
40:20
this more often. If something doesn't work, the
40:23
question then needs to be. Okay, what do I need
40:26
to do to make it work? Am I asking the wrong
40:28
question? Am I focused on the wrong client? Am
40:32
I offering the wrong product, the wrong service?
40:35
Is there a way that I can tailor it to this particular
40:38
client? So it's like you're constantly in conversation
40:41
with your clients and with what's going on outside
40:45
of your head, right? Everything does not exist
40:48
inside of our head. We do not know everything.
40:50
And I think sometimes, especially as women founders,
40:54
for some reason we have this idea that asking
40:58
for help, that it shows, it somehow says that
41:01
we don't know anything. And in fact, it only
41:03
shows that you don't know everything. That's
41:06
not the same thing. And by the way, people love
41:09
to be asked for their opinions. I think the more
41:11
you can get like an advisory board or coaches
41:14
or people who will tell it to you the way they'll
41:17
tell it to you in a real way. Because think of
41:20
all the money that you could lose if you go after
41:23
the wrong thing in the wrong way for the wrong
41:26
people at the wrong time. There's so many factors
41:28
and especially now it's so much more complicated
41:32
and you couldn't really lose your shirt if you're
41:35
not. Yep. Yep. Yeah, we had a instance where
41:38
we were going to take the business in a different
41:40
direction and we had to make a big investment
41:43
to be able to present ourselves in a certain
41:45
way. And after eight months of chasing things
41:48
that were getting us nothing, it was time to
41:51
take a step back. And once we rejiggered everything
41:56
back to where our core strengths, we started
41:59
seeing business again. And it was like, ah, OK.
42:03
So. go back to the well and figure out that's
42:07
the summer day camp that I mentioned. It was
42:09
going back to their core value. It wasn't about
42:12
chasing whatever the next thing was. And I think
42:15
sometimes we get stuck in that loop of, Oh, other
42:18
people are doing this. That must be the way to
42:20
go. And other people are not you. That's why
42:22
I say if you can really get clear on your brand
42:26
core value and you understand what you're really
42:30
doing and what you're about and why it matters,
42:33
then you can stay true to that instead of constantly
42:36
chasing. There's always going to be another shiny
42:38
object. And I think not getting caught up in
42:43
shiny object syndrome, I think as an entrepreneur
42:45
is a challenge for sure. But I also think it's
42:49
all about, I always say keep the main thing,
42:52
the main thing. What's the one thing that you
42:55
know, you do well and it may not be sexy. Like
42:59
it may not be the most glamorous thing, but if
43:02
you're really good at it, they will come. You
43:06
know, if you build it, they will come. And I'm
43:08
starting to see that too, as we refine year after
43:10
year, this is what works. And of course, the
43:14
reality is that things are going to shift around
43:17
you. So I think it's always a good idea just
43:20
to get a read. on what's happening. And I'm thinking
43:23
about when I work with people on their LinkedIn
43:25
profile, a lot of times I work with people who
43:28
are doing a pivot from a full -time job to starting
43:31
their business. And what happens is that then
43:34
they also start to worry about, I've done this
43:37
in this way for all these years. So it's also
43:39
about helping them see how those skills can be
43:43
transferable. You're just shifting. the focus
43:47
a little bit. You're shifting their purpose,
43:49
but you're still using those skills. They're
43:51
not dead. They're not useless. No, you're right.
43:55
They are transferable. You just have to be, I
43:58
think, realistic. Realistic and also be willing
44:01
to let go. Yeah. Great point. Orly, I could keep
44:06
talking and this podcast could go on for hours.
44:09
That is all the time we have for today. I just
44:12
want to thank you so much for joining us and
44:14
reminding us that in a noisy world, clarity matters.
44:18
And I think when we said businesses understand
44:20
their purpose and their audience and their story,
44:23
they're not going to just attract attention,
44:25
but they're going to build connection and trust
44:27
and lasting impact. So thank you so much. Thank
44:30
you. It was a pleasure. And to our listeners.
44:34
Whether you've first heard us locally through
44:37
BTV studios in Bedford, Massachusetts or you're
44:40
tuning in from across the globe on Spotify, Apple
44:43
podcasts or Amazon podcasts. Thank you for listening.
44:47
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see
44:49
you next time. Happy storytelling.