Latest / Substack Writers Salon / What I Learned About Self-Publishing in the Arab World (And Why It Matters for All of Us)

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What I Learned About Self-Publishing in the Arab World (And Why It Matters for All of Us) · Substack Writers Salon

• 0:00
  Hi,
• 0:00
  hi everyone and welcome to another live show of the Substack
• 0:06
  Writers Salon.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I am honored to be joined today by Dawood Kutab,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: a pioneering Palestinian journalist,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: a columnist and advocate
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: for Independent Media,
• 0:17
  who has spent decades shaping conversations around journalism
• 0:21
  and freedom of
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: expression in the MENA region.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Dawood.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Good, good.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so glad you are here.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the topic of our conversation is independent media.
• 0:44
  and especially in the region which is the Middle East which
• 0:49
  it's probably
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tynes natashatynes
• 1:14
  quickly about what kind of books you published and how was your
• 1:17
  journey publishing
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  SPEAKER_01: independently in terms of dealing with Amazon or maybe,
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: other ways you did.
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  SPEAKER_01: So the floor is yours, Dawood.
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  SPEAKER_02: Before I get into the book publishing,
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  SPEAKER_02: since you mentioned journalism,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: I want to tell you and your audience that in the Arab world,
• 1:36
  the press is totally free in everything except what's happening
• 1:41
  in that country.
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  So Syrian news is absolutely free when it's talking about
• 1:48
  Lebanon and Algerian news
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  is great when they're talking about Morocco and Egyptian news
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  is great about
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  talking about any country except Egypt and so one of the things
• 1:59
  that you discover
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: in the region is you often need to go to
• 2:05
  Although we have the same language,
• 2:06
  we have the same culture,
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  we have so much in common.
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  SPEAKER_02: We have the Arab League that joins us together.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: But the internal government structures are...
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  SPEAKER_02: They put a lot of pressure.
• 2:22
  We call it often self-censorship that people are afraid often
• 2:26
  to write what is
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: happening in their own country.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: So some of us tend to write abroad.
• 2:34
  Some of us tend to write more in English than in Arabic because
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  even in English the
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Powers to be are less controlling because they know he's diplomats,
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  SPEAKER_02: they have access to other media,
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  SPEAKER_02: so they're not as worried about it unless it's in their local language.
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  SPEAKER_02: That's the issue of press freedom or freedom of expression in general.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it applies to books.
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  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the book industry suffers in the Arab region because of this
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  SPEAKER_02: sensor that is in the heads of so many people that they are afraid,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: they are under control,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: they're worried that they will be in trouble,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: they lose a job,
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  SPEAKER_02: because there's all kinds of
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  SPEAKER_02: Unwritten laws in many countries where even though you might be legal,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: but powers to be can make it difficult.
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  Also,
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  the business community,
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  unfortunately,
• 3:37
  is largely in bed with government.
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  SPEAKER_02: So there isn't a really serious publishing industry.
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  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of freelancers, freelance industries in each country.
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  SPEAKER_02: You have,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: publishers,
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  SPEAKER_02: but again,
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  the only time that you see some really interesting books is
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  when there is book
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  SPEAKER_02: fairs.
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  SPEAKER_02: And that's once a year where,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: publishers from different countries come,
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  SPEAKER_02: and even that sometimes there is a problem.
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  But in general,
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  this is one of the issues that I want to talk about,
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  which is the atmosphere.
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  SPEAKER_02: You know, for a writer, it's very important to have a free...
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's an environment that you can write freely.
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  SPEAKER_02: The environment has an effect on what you write and what you don't write,
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  SPEAKER_02: what you write in English,
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  SPEAKER_02: what you write in Arabic and so on.
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  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is in general.
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  SPEAKER_02: In the art world,
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  I hate to say this we don't read books we're not good book
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  readers we don't have
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  the culture of you sit in a subway in New York City and see
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  everybody with a book
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  reading you know we don't have that culture people somehow I
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  think they they love
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  the internet and their phones because it's short you know
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  paragraphs and tweets and
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  SPEAKER_02: all that and they I don't know why but we don't have the
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  The patience and the luxury of sitting on a beach and reading a
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  book or sitting at
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  SPEAKER_02: home and reading a book,
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  SPEAKER_02: it's not so much in our culture.
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  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if your parents or your family reads a lot of books,
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  but I have a hard time convincing people who are close to me to
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  read a book.
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  SPEAKER_02: They will read an article,
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  SPEAKER_02: they'll read a Facebook post or a Twitter post,
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  SPEAKER_02: but reading books is not a very serious part of our culture.
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  SPEAKER_02: Except for people who are ideological.
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  The ideological people are avid readers,
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  but they read,
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  again,
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  in a very kind of closed way.
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  They read books about the ideologies and philosophies of people
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  that they follow.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so you have that,
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  SPEAKER_02: and you go to any book fair today in the hour,
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  SPEAKER_02: and the biggest kind of books are economic ideological books.
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  SPEAKER_02: That's what they're for or whatever.
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  SPEAKER_02: That's the prevailing ideology.
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  SPEAKER_02: There is, of course, leftist writers and liberal writers and so on.
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  SPEAKER_02: But if you go to a book fair,
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  SPEAKER_02: you'll see a lot of Islamist folks supporting against,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: talking about profiling Islamist leaders,
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  SPEAKER_02: talking about Hamas,
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  SPEAKER_02: talking about Islamic Jihad,
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  SPEAKER_02: talking about...
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  SPEAKER_02: and all the ideologies behind them.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it's good reading, but it's a very limited reading.
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  SPEAKER_02: The other problem we have before you ask is that we have a terrible
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  SPEAKER_02: Absence of very good critics, book critics.
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  SPEAKER_02: As a result, the good is mixed with the bad.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so you ask people to read and they say,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: I've tried a few books and they were terrible.
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  SPEAKER_02: And they were.
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  SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of really bad books.
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  In fact,
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  if you go to almost any publishing house in the Arab world,
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  they don't buy your ideas.
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  SPEAKER_02: They actually ask you to pay.
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  SPEAKER_02: for publishing your own book.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so there is no real seriousness in searching for a good book,
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  SPEAKER_02: in getting a good editor to edit the book.
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  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the writers are also very
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  SPEAKER_02: Close-minded.
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  SPEAKER_02: They don't want anybody to edit their books.
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  SPEAKER_02: Books have to be exactly the way they work.
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  SPEAKER_02: There is a holy grail around their books.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so we have a problem in different areas.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I've been a journalist for, as you said, four to seven years.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it took me a long time to write my first book.
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  SPEAKER_02: And the first book is actually right behind me.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's called Sesame Street, Palestine.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I was the executive producer of Sesame Street in Palestine.
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  And it came right after the Oslo Accords Where everybody was
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  talking about peace
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  And we should teach children coexistence and so on And then as
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  the peace process
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  SPEAKER_02: faltered Our program faltered And the money stopped coming Hello?
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  Yeah,
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  I'm here,
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  I'm here,
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  yeah The screen turned black for some reason Okay,
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  that's fine,
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  yeah
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  SPEAKER_02: And so our Sesame Street funding stopped completely, actually.
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  SPEAKER_02: We were in the third series,
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  SPEAKER_02: third season,
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  and we had a letter from USAID saying they'll support us for
• 8:31
  another season for $2
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  SPEAKER_02: million or whatever.
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  SPEAKER_02: And then the PLO went to the UN to declare a Palestinian state,
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  SPEAKER_02: and all of a sudden Congress stopped the funding.
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  So I wrote a book explaining how the actual TV series of
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  children reflected the
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  SPEAKER_02: actual life of Palestinians.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I found a good publisher in the U.S. to publish this book.
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  SPEAKER_02: So that was my first book.
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  SPEAKER_02: It took me a long time.
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  I became interested in writing more and actually it all started
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  after October 7th
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  SPEAKER_02: current series of books and I wrote an op-ed
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  SPEAKER_02: on October 9th, two days after October 7th, in the Washington Post.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I gave it a very interesting title.
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  SPEAKER_02: I said,
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  SPEAKER_02: the way to end this whole violence in the Middle East is for the U.S.
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  SPEAKER_02: to recognize Palestine.
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  SPEAKER_02: And everybody thought, you know, it was crazy.
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  And my comment was the following,
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  that what is happening in Palestine,
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  Israel,
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  didn't
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  SPEAKER_02: Start on October 7th.
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  SPEAKER_02: It has been 75 years in the making.
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  The refugees,
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  the occupation,
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  the siege on Gaza,
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  the 10 years without any political process.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so it was a kind of a
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  SPEAKER_02: Tynes natashatynes
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  SPEAKER_02: to bring peace to the Middle East.
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  SPEAKER_02: And then I realized that nobody,
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  even though everybody gives lip service to the state of
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  Palestine and balance to a
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  SPEAKER_02: state solution,
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  SPEAKER_02: nobody actually has written a book about why it's important now,
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  SPEAKER_02: after all that happened in...
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  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, that was my book.
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  SPEAKER_02: And the third book was...
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  when I was celebrating 25 years of the community radio I
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  started in Jordan called
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  SPEAKER_02: Ammanet and I thought that was the time to,
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  I was about to retire and I thought that would be the right
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  time to write a book
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  SPEAKER_02: about this experiment that we started.
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  SPEAKER_02: When people were on the internet,
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  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you remember Natasha,
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  SPEAKER_02: we used to call up the internet and we used
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do remember.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm that old, yeah.
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  So it was then that we started Ammanet as an internet radio
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  when a few people were
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  SPEAKER_02: listening to the internet.
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  SPEAKER_02: But then we eventually got a license and an FM license and so on.
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  And so I wrote about that experiment and all those troubles
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  that I went through,
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  SPEAKER_02: both positive and negative.
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  SPEAKER_02: So that's my personal kind of story about book writing.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's fascinating.
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  SPEAKER_01: So Dawood, I think my main question now is the actual process.
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  I've talked with a number of aspiring authors and clients who
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  are based in the
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  SPEAKER_01: Middle East and they want to self-publish.
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  And in addition to the political climate that you explained,
• 11:57
  what are the actual steps?
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  SPEAKER_01: My understanding that any book that you need to self-publish,
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  SPEAKER_01: and let's say Jordan,
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  SPEAKER_01: you have to get permission from the publication department
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  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
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  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, I self-published three books.
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  SPEAKER_01: I did not get permission from anyone.
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  SPEAKER_01: I hired editors, hired designers, typesetters.
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  I was more invested in sort of the technical team,
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  not kind of the legality of the book.
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  and I submitted it to KDP they approved it so the only kind of
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  like legal I mean
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  not legal step but kind of technical step of approval was the
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  approval of Amazon to
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  make sure that its content it you know does not violate their
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  guidelines and that
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  was the only step of approval so if you're based in a country
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  of the Middle East
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  and you want to do the same process that I did are you saying
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  there's an additional
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  SPEAKER_01: step to to what I did
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  SPEAKER_02: Look,
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  SPEAKER_02: I published with an American publisher,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: I published self-published,
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  SPEAKER_02: and I published in Georgian.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I have different experiences.
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  As you said,
• 13:10
  in the U.S.,
• 13:11
  the U.S.
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  publisher,
• 13:13
  Bear Manor,
• 13:14
  they were very good.
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  SPEAKER_02: They did the proofreading, they changed a few things.
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  We talked about the cover page,
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  we talked about the headline,
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  the name of it.
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  SPEAKER_02: and it did the rest.
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  That was very easy and we got an ISBN number and the book was
• 13:29
  published and it was distributed.
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  It didn't do very well but it's there and I got my copies to
• 13:37
  give to people and so
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: on and that was kind of a history.
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  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to write that history.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: The State of Palestine book,
• 13:46
  I had a problem with most publishers because the time they take
• 13:51
  to publish your
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: book is between six months to a year.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: So if you find any serious publisher, it takes a long time.
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  And I thought that,
• 14:00
  you know,
• 14:00
  the story on Palestine needs to be done quickly.
• 14:03
  And so I took a chance and I went to Amazon,
• 14:06
  like you said,
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  and I published on Amazon.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it's done okay.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing great.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: I actually translated the book and got some people to read it.
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  SPEAKER_02: So it's available in German, in French, and German-French and Spanish.
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  and I wanted to do the Italian version when I ran to a friend
• 14:29
  of mine in Italian
• 14:30
  and he said I'll help you translate it but let me see if I can
• 14:35
  find you a publisher
• 14:36
  and he found the publisher with a two month wait so you know
• 14:40
  they were very quick
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: and this was the book
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: But what made the book interesting is that Stefano,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: my friend who translated the book,
• 14:52
  is an avid supporter of Palestine And so he contacted all kinds
• 14:57
  of organizations in
• 14:58
  Italy And I was supposed to do a tour in Italy And two weeks
• 15:04
  before the tour,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: the war in Iran began and all the airlines were stopped
• 15:09
  but we decided to continue with the tour but virtually so he
• 15:13
  was in Italy I was in
• 15:15
  Jordan and I was doing the tour and it was great because I
• 15:21
  taped a summary of the
• 15:23
  book on video and they put the subtitles in Italian so they can
• 15:26
  learn more about
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: the book
• 15:28
  and I would answer questions and people would buy the book and
• 15:33
  you know after six
• 15:34
  or seven meetings in local places we were I was told there was
• 15:39
  about 800 copies
• 15:40
  sold which is really good for a book I'm told my publisher said
• 15:43
  if you reach a
• 15:44
  thousand then it's a big success so we're almost there and I'm
• 15:48
  supposed to go back
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: to I'm supposed to go to Rome in June
• 15:52
  again maybe to go to the parliament and to meet other people in
• 15:56
  Italy again so I
• 15:58
  realize that as you always say in your tweets all the time on
• 16:04
  Substack you need to
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: keep
• 16:06
  keep the book alive keep talking about the book keep because
• 16:11
  that's what sells
• 16:12
  books that's what gets people to buy books and I didn't do
• 16:15
  enough in the English
• 16:16
  but with the Italian version and these town hall meetings if
• 16:20
  you want to call them
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: has been a big success so back to your question
• 16:27
  For my Amman netbook,
• 16:30
  the Arabic version was a much more sanitized version.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody asked me to do this.
• 16:36
  It just said,
• 16:37
  you know,
• 16:37
  there was expectation that would cause me trouble.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the publisher got that permission and published it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, you do need to get authorization.
• 16:50
  In Jordan,
• 16:52
  they actually canceled what is called the pre-censorship,
• 16:56
  okay?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, okay.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need to get permission,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: but there's post-censorship,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: which is that if your book is out and somebody complains or whatever,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: then they can stop you.
• 17:12
  I don't know exactly how it works,
• 17:13
  but by law,
• 17:15
  there is apparently no pre-censorship.
• 17:18
  Now,
• 17:18
  if you are importing books,
• 17:20
  then there is censorship on importing books.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what about the issue of print on demand?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when you self-publish in the Arab world,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Amazon self,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: which is,
• 17:39
  so what I do is I don't have stacks of books and I sell them
• 17:44
  individually,
• 17:45
  is I just put the Amazon link and people go to Amazon and
• 17:49
  Amazon prints on demand
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: and give you the book.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So since Amazon is not widely available in places in the Middle East,
• 17:58
  how does the print-on-demand option for Amazon works for
• 18:04
  someone who's based in the
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Middle East?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you have to go to a...
• 18:09
  I don't think it works I've had very little I know that people
• 18:12
  have told me they
• 18:13
  tried to buy my book in Jordan were not able to get it
• 18:16
  delivered so I don't know
• 18:18
  why but apparently Jordan is not one of the countries that
• 18:24
  Amazon delivers I don't
• 18:25
  know if you've had experience like this but apparently this is
• 18:29
  a problem I don't
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: think anybody has actually tried to fill this gap
• 18:34
  Yeah Again You probably need to get government permission You
• 18:38
  know TikTok is not
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: allowed in Georgia
• 18:42
  Again because the TikTok company according to the Jordanian
• 18:46
  officials has refused
• 18:48
  to accept certain issues that Jordan has put on TikTok
• 18:51
  especially with nudity and
• 18:53
  pornography and so on so they say and so TikTok is not allowed
• 18:57
  I think for Amazon
• 19:00
  to be allowed I think they would have to pass this high bar of
• 19:04
  what kind of content
• 19:05
  is allowed and apparently it's not a big market and so Amazon
• 19:09
  didn't even bother
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So independent publishers or self-published authors,
• 19:17
  do they have to actually go to a printing press themselves with
• 19:20
  the book and print
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: it and then distribute it manually?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So how did you print your books?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: There are publishers who will take care of the cover,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: who will take care of the printing,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: who will take care of the copy,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: editing if need be,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: and they'll get you the ISBN.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: But by and large, you have to pay.
• 19:43
  So you basically hire them They will put it on their roster And
• 19:48
  they will put it on
• 19:48
  their online And when there is book fairs They will put your
• 19:52
  book among other books
• 19:53
  And you have to wait and see how it sells But basically there
• 19:58
  is no advance The
• 20:00
  opposite You have to give them money To cover their risk
• 20:04
  basically They say we have
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: no idea how the book would do There is not enough experience
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: to know that this book will do well.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 20:15
  I'm told that the two kinds of books that do well are school
• 20:18
  books and there's
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: another,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: very sensual drama or whatever,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: fiction.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: But other than that,
• 20:34
  the book publishers tell me that they're not willing to take a
• 20:38
  chance on any book.
• 20:40
  And therefore you have to take the risk by paying the cost And
• 20:45
  if the book sells,
• 20:46
  then they'll give you a percentage But they don't publish for
• 20:52
  you They don't
• 20:53
  believe that your book will sell So you have to take the risk
• 21:00
  And how do you take
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: the risk?
• 21:01
  So is there any way you can do it on your own without going to
• 21:06
  these people?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you can take a manuscript.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a national library.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you need to go there to get what is called the ISBN.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you know it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's the international number.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the only thing you need from the government is the ISBN number.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then the publisher, you know, a printer...
• 21:33
  and a printer will print it yeah if they I mean if they don't
• 21:36
  know you and they're
• 21:37
  afraid they will not do it but if they know you or they see the
• 21:40
  book is not
• 21:41
  controversial or whatever they will publish okay but can you
• 21:46
  buy an ISBN online
• 21:48
  because I buy my ISBN online is there a way you can do it for I
• 21:57
  don't know I don't
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: know for Jordan I don't know policies for Jordan
• 22:02
  Yeah,
• 22:02
  it's interesting because as you noted,
• 22:05
  there's a big gap when it comes to it.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: So basically independent publishing, it's still not fully independent.
• 22:12
  You still have a lot of hoops and you still have to go through
• 22:16
  some sort of a
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: printing machine,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: a physical printing machine to actually print the book.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean the publishers do it for you.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean you don't have to go through it.
• 22:25
  But basically you're paying them in advance and you're paying
• 22:28
  them for doing the
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: cover and for the copy editing and copyright,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: checking spelling mistakes and so on and the formatting,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: you pay for that to the publishers.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Basically,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: the publishers help you with the cover and with,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: just copy editing and the copy,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: spelling the check,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: spell check and so on.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for anyone in,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: let's say,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: in Jordan,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: you have to have physical copies in your,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: basement or whatever,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: or in your extra room.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I should show you my...
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I should show you the cardboard in my...
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: See,
• 23:11
  that for me would probably deter me from self-publishing
• 23:16
  because I won't be able to
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: guarantee that I would actually sell these.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have the guarantee, right?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so the beauty of print on demand,
• 23:25
  which I'm realizing this is a gap that needs to be filled in
• 23:29
  the Middle East and
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: this is,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: a million-dollar idea.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: We get Amazon Let's write an appeal to Amazon Yeah,
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: exactly And you can run that branch Yeah,
• 23:43
  so the idea is I don't have that risk So people just go to
• 23:47
  Amazon Amazon prints it
• 23:49
  on demand And ships it to them So I don't have any extra
• 23:54
  inventory sitting
• 23:55
  somewhere In my extra room gathering dust If my book does not
• 23:59
  sell well So that's
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: going to eliminate the risk
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 24:03
  what are you telling me now is that it's basically how
• 24:08
  self-publishing was 20 years
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: ago,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: before the advent of KDP.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And KDP was,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: for those who are listening and they don't know what KDP is,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: it's Kindle Direct Publishing,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: which is part of Amazon.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: is solved that issue for many people.
• 24:25
  But I think there's a lot of room for improvement in places
• 24:28
  like Jordan and
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: probably other countries in the Arab world.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: The marketing of the book also.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't do the marketing.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: So most publishers in the U.S., you know,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Simon Schuster and all,
• 24:45
  they do the marketing and that's why books sell and they take
• 24:48
  it to Bars and Noble
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: and they put your books there and so on.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it depends if you're a big author.
• 24:54
  If you're a small author,
• 24:56
  they'll hire an intern and you still have to do the marketing.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: If they take your book, they usually will turn your book down.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you need an agent and all of that.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: But quickly before we go,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: why do you think your book sold well in a country like Italy?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Why is Italy interested in the issue of Palestine now?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And why is it more successful than other places?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think a number of things.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think there is a strong solidarity movement in Italy with Palestine.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Italy is part of the Mediterranean, Italians and Palestinians.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of, you know, connections and relationships.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the second thing,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 25:41
  is that the present prime minister is a very right-wing woman
• 25:47
  who's totally against
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: politics.
• 25:51
  The Palestinians Until recently were supplying arms to Israel
• 25:55
  She recently stopped
• 25:56
  that So I think it's more of a solidarity support But people
• 26:02
  who bought the book I
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: mean,
• 26:03
  I think having these town hall meetings Has been the biggest
• 26:06
  success of the book
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're meeting the author They're talking,
• 26:11
  they're asking questions They're learning more about the book
• 26:15
  And so that creates
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: the excitement you need for a book To start being sold
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, fascinating.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Are you thinking of trying other countries like Spain?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because Spain now is also very interested.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: I am.
• 26:27
  I am actually also because all of Latin America is really
• 26:31
  supporting Palestinians.
• 26:32
  So I'm looking for a hook with some groups or some publishers
• 26:38
  in Spain for the book.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I wish you the best of luck.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And before we conclude, I'd like to...
• 26:47
  Of course we're going to have a replay of this and I'm going to
• 26:50
  send it to the
• 26:53
  people who are on my newsletter and also we're here joined by
• 26:56
  Stefano Nani.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the same Stefano you mentioned or is that a different Stefano?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Stefano, thank you for joining us.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: If it's Stefano Nani, it's the right one.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many Stefamas we have.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: We have Stefano Nani here joining us.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's my man.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, hi Stefano.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Stefano, nice to meet you.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Please feel free to ask any questions.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think before we conclude,
• 27:26
  I'd like to announce that Dawoud and I will be starting a new
• 27:30
  publication on
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Substack.
• 27:32
  It's called Two Arab Journalists One Levant We are two Arab
• 27:36
  journalists Who watch
• 27:38
  the media Observe the media We also look at social media And
• 27:41
  I'm based in the
• 27:43
  Washington DC area Dawood is based between Jerusalem and Amman
• 27:47
  And I think with
• 27:48
  both of us We have a lot to talk about The media coverage Some
• 27:52
  certain topics that
• 27:54
  are important to a lot of people and I'm going to be putting on
• 27:58
  my journalist hat
• 28:00
  for this publication and it's going to be fun we'll be half an
• 28:04
  hour every week and
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: stay tuned for more info
• 28:10
  I wanted to do this for a long time but I don't have the
• 28:15
  ability and the skills
• 28:16
  that you have so thank you for making this offer I'm happy to
• 28:22
  talk and discuss and
• 28:24
  I promise the viewers and listeners that they will get
• 28:28
  interesting unpublished
• 28:30
  information and unpublished new angles to the issues that
• 28:35
  they're hearing on the
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: main media
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: We'll try to,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: we'll not give you news as much as analysis,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: we'll try to give you a different point of view.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're listening to two Arabs in one Levant,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: so you'll get the Arab point of view,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: the Levant point of view,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: if you want,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: from Palestine,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: from Jordan.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: and Write with Natasha Tynes
• 29:15
  comes around so there will be different things and I will let
• 29:19
  you know what people
• 29:20
  are saying in the cafes in the breakfast tables dinner tables
• 29:24
  in Arab homes and
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: we'll see we'll see how Natasha and I will work out but we
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: are similar.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're different.
• 29:35
  We come from similar backgrounds,
• 29:36
  but we also have different points of view.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you will see that there will be complementariness between us.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll give you the suburban mom perspective.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, the suburban moms are powerful.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: They vote as well.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell you what the suburbs are saying,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: if they're actually even paying attention to the news,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: which is something people keep telling me.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: What are people thinking in the U.S. about what's happening?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time, it's like, honestly,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: People are so worried about their own lives.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're not following the news as we think they are.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: But anyways, we'll be watching the replay.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 30:32
  you died you froze for a while I don't know what happened oh
• 30:34
  yeah I did oh yeah
• 30:35
  it's probably yeah the connection here but the internet but
• 30:39
  it's okay we're all
• 30:40
  with the punches stay tuned Natasha and Daoud from the Arab
• 30:46
  world from Levant from
• 30:47
  Washington from Al-Quds Jerusalem from Amman you'll get
• 30:50
  different points of view
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: excellent thank you thanks everyone and until we meet again bye bye bye