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SMNTY Interviews: Pop Culture Moms · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I Ever told you, a production by Hurry to You,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and today we are so excited to be joined by
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Andy Mitchell and Sabrina Colberg, the host of the podcast
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: pop Culture Moms. Thank you so much for coming.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: On, Thank you, thank you for having us.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, we're very excited to have this conversation because given
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the nature of our show, we didn't talk about there's
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of overlap and things that I think that
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: we both discussed. But before we get into that, can
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: you please tell our audience more about yourselves. Introduce yourselves.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Sure, I'm an author of a memoir and a cookbook.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: But now I just I just I just podcast with
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: my best friend Sabrina, and we met twenty years ago
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: and started this like really just intense best friendship that
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: has lasted us where we're talking on the phone daily,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: which is I think why we decided we had to
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: let's start a podcast. If we're going to be using
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: the airtime, let's just get someone recording this. And so, yeah,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: so I'm Andy and this is my best friend Sabrina.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Sav you take it over.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm Sabrina Kolberg. I am a producer at Good
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Morning America and now a podcaster with Andy for Pop
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Culture Moms from ABC Audio.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And we are pop culture obsessed.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: And I have a three and a five year old,
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: so I'm also really in the trenches of motherhood. So
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: pop Culture Moms was kind of the perfect combination of
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: our interests. We talk all about moms and pop culture
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: and what we can learn from them while we're parenting.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And I am very, very excited. We love talking about
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: pop culture here. Samantha and I huge nerds about that,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: so I can't wait to get into that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: But how did the two of you meet college? We're all,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: we're all the beautiful love stories start.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we lived on the same floor of a dorm
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: our freshman year of college. And I want to say
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: we met the first night, but maybe it was the
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: second night. I'm not really sure. But we met pretty
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: immediately and we became best friends, you know, as soon
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: as we met.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Basically, we had a trundle. We had an extra bed,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: like my roommate is also my stepsister, and we had
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: a trundle in our small, small dorm room instead of
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: just basically moved right in and she only loves like
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: five doors down, so it was not necessary, but we
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: were watching a lot of TV, so we needed to
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: just be able to lay down and watch with us.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that I totally get that. So through that
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you had this love of entertainment, you said that you're
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in the trenches of like momhood. Can you tell us
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: about where this podcast idea came from? When did that
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: become a thing?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: So we spoke on the phone pretty much every day
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: of our adult lives, but especially when we both had children.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Andy had her children just a little bit before me,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: so mineor three and five, hers are four and six,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: and I was on maternity leave and we were in
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: the pandemic, and I would just call Andy every day
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: and talk to her about, you know, everything, but like
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: I would need, yeah, I would need advice on what
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: to do because her children were a little bit older.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: But then I would also just want to talk about
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: whatever TV show I talked, you know, was watching the
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: night before, and we would just go on and on.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: And Andy had.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: The idea that we should you know, be recording and
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: sending it out to the masses, and we.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Just thought it was the perfect topic.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Like we love the women that we see on television
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: who are playing moms, and we're so interested in that,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: and it's just a funny you know, we're not parenting experts,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: and we don't want to pretend to be parenting experts.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: We don't want to be giving anyone advice, but it
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: is funny to talk about like Lucille Bluth and what
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: she's good at as a mom and what she's not
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: good at as a mom, And it's just a funny
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: way to look at parenthood.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, we've had a lot of episodes about depictions
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: of moms, so I can't wait to pick your brains
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: about that. But one of the things before, before we
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: get into that, is did you like you're having these
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: conversations and for like younger listeners, I used to call
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: my best friend on the phone. We would watch X
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: files together from a distance, and we would like be like, oh,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: let's get into this. But like those those things of
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: seeing something in entertainment and sharing that and in this
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: case being moms and kind of picking apart what you're
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: seeing in entertainment versus the reality of your experience. Was
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that something that you found was you've got this stress
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: going on in your life and this was like, okay,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: we can discuss and like have this release almost.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely. It's all of the things
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: that like, you know, art does for us that like,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I think we liked. I think especially when we first
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: thought of this idea a couple of years ago. You know,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: our kids were very little, and so we're really like
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: in the trenches and like a lot of life with
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: very young kids. There's a ton of joy, no doubt,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: but it's it's a lot of hard, mundane days that
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: are long and sometimes grueling and repetitive. And so I
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: think like you look forward to your shows that you
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: have or like while you're feeding a baby, like you're
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: watching a show, maybe you're watching them in the middle
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: of the night when you wake up to be with
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the baby. So it's I think that we like the
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: escapist nature of watching movies and TV. But then also
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: like it feels nice when you watch something and it
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: resonates and makes you feel less alone, I mean, for sure.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: And thirdly, it's like there's something that happens. It says
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a lot the judgments that we have about these depictions
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: of women, like whether we like them or don't like them.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: It's like a very reflective of you know, who we
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: are or aren't or wish we were, or hate about ourselves.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: And so I think it's what we've found is that
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: talking about like a Lucille Bluth is more illuminating sometimes
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: than talking to you about your mom, because you feel
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: freer with the buffer of like, we're talking about this
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: fictional character, and it just exposes I think a lot
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: of what we struggle with or aspire to be. You know, yeah,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: it's a.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Little bit safer to have a judgment of a person
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: who's not real. We don't really want to judge a
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: mother who's trying her hardest and doing her best, and
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: we don't want to say like, oh, she sucks, but
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: we can say, like, Lucille Bluth kind of sucks sometimes,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: but also she's really funny. And it's just it's an
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: easier way to look at the way people are parenting
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: and talk about it without a judgment or without being
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: cruel or not understanding people.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I feel that's so hard I connect. I can talk
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: about fictional characters way easier than I can.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Talk about we have such strong judgments about them.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And so to be clear, Samantha
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and I are not moms. The show title often confuses people,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: but we are not moms. But we have talked a
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: lot about the depiction of moms in entertainment, and I
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: know that's something that clearly both of you know a
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: lot about and have had these conversations about. So one
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: of the things I would like to do, if if
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you could, can we go over the evolution of this
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: depiction of moms in our media and TV and film.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean if you think back, I mean, it's
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: obviously not the first mom or the most famous mom,
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: but people always are thinking about like Missus Cleaver from
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: Leave It to Beaver, like just this perfect mom, And
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: that was really what a lot of the depiction of
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: motherhood was like. It was just this mom who was
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: so devoted and her only purpose in life and her
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: only goal in life was to be a mom and
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: to serve her family and her kids, and that was
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: all people were seeing at that time.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: And over the years, we've gotten really.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: Much more complex versions of motherhood that we see on TV.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: And there are some people who hate being moms and
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: that's what the show is about. And there are some
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: people who are struggling, and there are some people who
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: are kind of just like a mediocre mom. Like it,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: the more we see, Andy always says this, the more
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: we see, the more we're able to be compassionate to people.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: And to be more fully ourselves. It's like going from
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: the one dimensionality, the lack of nuance of like a
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: June Cleaver to then, like we interviewed Katie Sagal talked
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: about peg Bundy and how like, you know, she was
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: funny and that she like had disdain for taking care
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: of her kids and her husband and all this stuff,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: but it was important to see a different mom, to
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: see a mom that we even label as quote unquote bad.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: It's like that it's I mean, it goes back to
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not enlightening either of you, but there's like representation
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of any kind generally makes us in our world better
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: because we have more empathy or we feel less alone,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: and there's just a greater context for women now. I
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: think like there's so many more shades to the moms
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that we see, and it's sometimes sometimes being the mom
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: is like we know the woman has kids, but that's
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: not what we're watching her do. We're not really like
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: in her struggle. So it's just I think women have
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: a much broader ability to like be fully themselves in
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: whatever way that may be. Although I mean, we still
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: have far far to go. I don't want to say
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: that we're already. We're not like, we're not like men yet.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: We're trying.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's one of the things that's come up
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: for us on this show is we've gotten a lot
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: of messages from listeners who have written about very vulnerable
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: messages about how this perfect mother trope that they saw
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: on TV it wasn't the reality when they had kids,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: and they felt guilty about it. Because that's what we
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: see is it's like, this is the best thing that's
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: ever happened. You're so happy all the time. It's just
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: it fulfills you completely, all of these things. So having
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: that representation and having that nuance and having it change
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: has been really important and continues to be. But it
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: is interesting to me that it's still that idea is
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: in the United States still very much like, Okay, the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: woman is the mother, She's going to do this.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, she's going to carry the mental load probably
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: even if there's like an actuality is going to be hard,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: She's going to be like mentally running this this thing
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: and I think, I mean, it's when you speak about
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: expectations versus reality. It's like Serena and I, I mean
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: arguably have seen every movie, every show. Don't quote me
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: on that, but most of them. And even still like
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I we discussed that, both of us after having our
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: first baby realize like, oh, I don't think I could
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: can be that like perfect mom. I thought I was
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: going to be that like didn't need time to herself
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: or that didn't like yell sometimes, or like wasn't resentful
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: of like my husband doing something for himself and not
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: for the family. You know, like it's just there is
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's just bec It's like with parenting,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: it's like until you're in it, I think you really
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: try to save yourself, protect yourself by thinking, well, but
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I'll probably do it really well. Like I think I'll
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: probably do it really well and maybe even perfectly, you
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: know what I mean.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: But it's like the only I think you have to
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: have that blind faith in yourself. Otherwise why like why
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: even father trying?
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I get it. I know psychology.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I read a couple of books and I am reading
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of work on myself. But it's like, yeah,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: anythink it just proves like so much if people say this,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: but it is harder in ways that you can't even anticipate,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think there's something too, uh, like
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: when we see moms who are struggling, I think you
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: feel like a solidarity. And then also like unless you're
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: watching like specific depictions of women, like you know, childcare
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: in the United States, paid leave in the United States,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: there's not the reality for most moms is nothing glamorous,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you know, not even close to what we think it is,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: even on a sitcom like where you don't have to
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: be rich, Like, it's just it's very painful and difficult
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: and the days are long for women.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: When I was a little baby intern, I used to
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: edit this show called Mothership and it was about motherhood
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and one of the hosts on there was like, she
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: said something that always stuck with me. It's like running
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: through molasses every day.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that's what we say to ourself. I honestly,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Sabrina and I say, how do people do this? Like
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: people with far less let's just say capabilities than me
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: are doing this every day for millennia, Like what's happening Yeah,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: it's really it's there's not like an end where there's
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: like a break, because even if you had a break,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: you couldn't like really restore enough to feel like your
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: heart isn't walking around outside your body. So it's just
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: very Yeah, it's it's I mean, look, I know I'm
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: saying it like it's all these like hardships and negative things,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: but it is. It is, like I can unequickly say
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: it is. Knowing all of how hard it is and
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: running through molasses every day, it's still the greatest. It
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: is the greatest. It's just not going to feel like
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that hour to hour or even day to day like.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot of overall I think benefit to
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: like just the bond that you have with your children
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: and the bond that you have with other women now
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: like I think, or and dads too. I mean, so
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: that's been nice, like kind of it's a very democratizing
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: thing to have children because you're all like everyone's clean
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: it up, boop, you know, it doesn't matter. Yeah, we're
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: all in it.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but that is definitely something we've talked about before.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you have experience with either through your conversations
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: or the podcast because you've talked to a lot of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: amazing different people on the podcast.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: We've gotten really lucky. Yeah, we love it. It's great,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Like it's amazing, and every episode week I'm so sorry
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: you have to do this with us, just.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: To every guest, like I don't but to be here
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: so starstruck like we just did yesterday I think was
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: like our twenty fifth or twenty sixth interview, because you know,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: we're just in the second finishing the second season, and
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Andy said like, I'm so starstruck, and then I was like,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: we've said this today every episode like.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: It's new, like at the beginning, I'm like, you guys,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: guess what. We're starstruck, But we are because it's like
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: we're meeting people like our our worlds are colliding, like
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: past me watching One Tree Hill is meeting the character
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: that I you know, watched for so many years.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: It's very very meaningful people to us.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Well, like you said, you're all dealing with poop now,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: so which is so nice. Yes, Well, I was wondering
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: if you, through your pop culture knowledge, do you have
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: like some tropes you see with moms that just come
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: up over and over again. That you can break down.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: One big one is that the cool mom was like
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the first one that we i mean mean girls popularized.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: It was Amy Fohler's character as Missus George, and she's permissive.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: And now we see like on Euphoria, if you watch
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Alana Ubach, her character Sus Howard is like a cool mom,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: a little bit different, a little darker, maybe a representation,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: but there's just this idea of the cool mom trope
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: of a permissive parent, a parent who wants to befriend
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: her daughter or son and and maybe like build a
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: relationship on like we're equals, and so there's not a
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: lot of authority there, so we can see the problems
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: like for maybe for kids and the parent problems for
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: the parents there. But that's a big one that we see,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: not I mean, it's not quite as much, but the
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: wine mom is kind of like that as well, like
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: that with the permissive parenting.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, and I mean, and we've talked about
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: like bad Moms quote unquote Bad Moms, which is like,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: you know, we love the movie Bad Moms, but just
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: in general we see like these moms who are seem
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: to be falling short and that that's a trope and
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: it's funny, but I think that's a really useful one
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: because then we realize that we're all kind.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Of falling short.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: You know, everyone's kind of a bad mom and everyone's
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: kind of a good mom.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: So that's a good one. God, we love Like I
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: have one trope that I I mean, we talked about
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Lucille Bluth earlier, but like this, like Lucille Blue kind
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: of like Emily Gilmour is a less exaggerated version of that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: But there's like this mom that's a little bit like
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: judgy and controlling and maybe you know, wishes that her
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: daughter were different. As you get that sense, that's like
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: a I love that mom on shows, I always love
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: that mom. Like I don't know if you guys watched
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: season five of Fargo, but Jennifer Jason Lee played like
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: this like kind of elitist mom and you don't really
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: like her for the whole thing, but like, ultimately she's
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: just It's a great character because they they use their
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: shrewdness ultimately to like help the child that they appear
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: to be judging so much. You know, that's like a commonality.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: So yeah, and I think we probably all feel judged
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: by our parents. So it's nice to see these ones
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: on the show as you are at least funny about it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, did you, because we had a big discussion in
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: one of one of the big mother tropes, especially like
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Missus Doubtfire that growing up we were told this mother
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: is a really bad mother. But then you really think
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: on it as an adult or when you become a
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: parental figure, and you're.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Like, no, she was actually great.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: Like who out of all the characters you've seen, or
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: do you think are some of the most misunderstood mothers,
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: who was seen as a villain but today is like, no,
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: actually they had it right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Well, we talk about it a lot with like Emily Gilmore,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Like if you watch Gilmore Girls, and if you watched
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: it when you were young, Morali was the goal and
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Emily was like this, she wasn't the villain, but she
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: was sort of like the killjoy, like she was ruining
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: the good time, she was forcing them, And now that
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: we're older, we're like, well, I mean, it's not that
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: unreasonable to just ask them to come to dinner once
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: a week if you're giving them, you know, thousands of dollars.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: For college, right, or that she's she's mired in like
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: traditional like values and rules and etiquette. But then you're like, well,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: there is stability there, I guess, or there's like a
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: structure that I think you notice with your kids like
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: helps them even though it sounds like such a bore,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: it's like very grounding to kids to have kind of
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: like regularity and routine and like, you know, all of those.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I guess sometimes like the parameters make you feel safer
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: to you know, live your life. But yeah, Emily's a
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: big one. We have who else, I mean, we've got
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I did when I when we were interviewing and talking
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: to peg Bundy herself, Katie Sagall, I did say, like
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: it's a joke that peg Bundy was always like, you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: bitterly hating her husband and like she's now making dinner
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: and stuff, but like she didn't seem like she was
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: like unhappy. And I think I like realized, well, there
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: is benefit to the fact that she was made making
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: sure that she was living her life on her terms.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: And it was funny played for communicy effect. And I'm
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: sure that maybe her kids felt neglected at times. But I,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: as I age, realized the value of like I just
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: want my mom to take care of herself because I
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: have a lot of guilt and tether to feeling like
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: she sacrificed everything. I mean, I think this is probably
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: pretty universal, but like, I just feel all the things
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: my mom doesn't give herself and or hasn't historically, and
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: it does feel like this like unbearable debt that she's
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: not She would say, release yourself, I don't. You don't
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: owe me anything, but it feels like, God, I would
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: love to just hear that she's like taking a trip
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: or like spending money on like a massage or something.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And so I think that, Like I look at peg
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Bundy now and I'm like, maybe that is maybe there
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: is some sort of gift in that, like Kelly and
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Bud can look at her and think, well, she's okay, Yeah,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: she's finding her joy. For sure, she's finding her joy. Guys,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: stop being so chuch, friend. It's been hilarious.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: For some reason, all of these old shows that I
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: have not watched in years keep popping up with like
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: TikTok trends and such, and peg Bundy keeps popping up,
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, man, first of all, how like she's
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: so young as those she has the wig does? She
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: really told us she has it in.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Her house and we were like, that's so exciting.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: I know, like like her character on that and Sons
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: of Anarchy, like when people talk about her as an
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: actress and seeing the two types of moms she played,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I know, she's like people talk about the range that
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: she ends up showing and that people generationally do not
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: realize how she has played these roles so differently because
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: they were like way too young or not even born
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: yet for like married with children, but the Sons of
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: Anarchy and you're like, she's a bad so like everybody's
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: very a friend of her from the little that I've seen,
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: But it's kind of funny to see her play those
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: roles so perfectly. But she still holds that mother matriarch
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: role so well yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I remember, and I don't. I don't have
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the facts to back this up, and I don't think
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I really want to stand behind myself here, But I
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: never liked the mom from Seventh Heaven. I don't know
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: if anyone's watched it, I just never. I never. There
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: was always something about her like maybe like a martyr
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: complex that she had. I was always like angry at
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: her Annie I believe her name was. Similarly, I didn't
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: love the mom on Parenthood, the Meal, I think like
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: the I just wasn't that happy with Meal.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: I love we're talking about this because I had a
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: back and forth. The entire Parenthood had so many like
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: variations of motherhood that could not.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Quite grasp like.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: They did a good job in making sure they were
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: all very different culturally even, but I was just like, huh,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: this is a really interesting conversation in the show in
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: itself on who they are portraying as not the good
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: mom necessarily but the normalized I guess, yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I agree. Wow, I love this so much.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Sorry, seventh Heaven.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: Honestly, I cannot remember. I am racking my brain to
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: remember that mom, because all I remember is the teenagers
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: all not liking each other.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah almost in a hot flash, and same and looks same.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I have night sweats, and I have since I had
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: my children six years ago. But I just remember her like.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: One thing that I really hate that my mom does
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: is do like someone who like I don't, like a martyr.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I would rather you never do anything for me than
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: do something for me and then make me know that
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: like make me feel bad that I like that, like
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: you had to do this for me, Like it's just
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: it's not a gift. So I get really, I get
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: really triggered by that kind of behavior. And I always
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: think like the mom was just always she's always on
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: the verge of a meltdown, and I could feel it.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I could feel it was palpable the whole show for me. Now,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it since its debut.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: And I do think you're remembering it very differently than
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: it occurred.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Not today, not today.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: This is one of those conversations and trying to remember
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: because I'm thinking of like home improvement and the.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Mom, what Jill had to go through, Jill I did?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I really just this is one of those.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: This was one of those main tropes of like making
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: the mom agod the kill joy, all like too responsible,
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: having to not only take care of the three sons,
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: but her husband who acts like a child as well,
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: like remembering all of.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: That right, and she's basically taking care of the neighbor
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: with his head behind the fence.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: She was doing too much.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Doing so much, and like they never really credit her,
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: and she is literally the butt of all a lot
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: of the jokes, it seemed or whether like like the
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: foil in all of the conversations. But like what I
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: remember versus what actually was step by Step? Yeah, being
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: that mother, playing that mother and the mother, Like, there's
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: so many shows that I have to go back on
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: in which the mothers are there and the ideal. At
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: least Step by Step was a little different because at
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: least Patrick Duffy what that was his name, right, he
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: was at least handsome and like likable from what I
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: remember as versus and and Susanne Summers being gorgeous, like.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: They kind of at least they kind of matched. You know,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: the new Yer sitcoms, they don't have that. You guys
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: are enjoying your relationship, right, because that wasn't like a
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: common thing like there was like like you said, there's
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: like the wife being the ball and chain used to
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: kill joy and then the husband just the long suffering husband.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: But yeah, thinking step by Step, you did get the
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: sense that they were happy to be together. But is
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: this because they were both were they both they're in
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: second second marriage? Yeah? Okay, coming back to okay step
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: by second Family, Yeah, fresh shirt over okay. Yeah, But like.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: All of these moms are such an amazing like they
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: are never really the caricatures like we see and when
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: characters are portrayed when we see sitcom moms, you know,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: like others are caricatures of themselves almost.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: We have the nerd being overly nerdy, We have you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: like those levels.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: The mother has to be like seemingly the normal part
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: of the family that keeps it.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Together, right, Yeah, And I think for a long time,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: like definitely in like the nineties, they didn't even really
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: put any effort into writing the mother because the mother
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: is just gonna be there. We're gonna make everyone else funny,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Like she just sit here.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: If you're a full house, you don't even need a
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: mother like that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: How man movies are.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: The moms just dead because they're like if the mom
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: was here, would have happened, because she would have been
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: like stop what you're doing now?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: But I think it's kind of interesting, And then that
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: kind of leads into the whole step mother trope too,
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: and how that's kind of grown and changed and has
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: like become a different conversation in itself, whether it's a
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: Lifetime movie or something like step by Step right.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, I mean because like Stepmom with Julia Roberts, like,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: it's great you. I think that movie did a really
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: good job of like you do. There's a moment where
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: you can side with both of them. You can understand
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: what Susan Saradan's character is kind of like seeing feeling
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: like she's losing, and then you can see that Julia
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Roberts is just she's at like, you know, a disadvantage
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: because she she's new to the family, and so I
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: think that's maybe it's it's it's not comedic. It was
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: a very heartfelt movie in a lot of ways, but
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: there's it's broad strokes. But they think we saw some
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: more nuanced than like The Evil step Mother, which had
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: like pervaded about culture for forever. But that yeah, or
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: even like in Cinderella Story, which is Jennifer Jennifer cooling
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: absolute best just like just the Evil Stepmom, but she
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: was so she was great and sassy. But yeah, yeah,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I think parent trap man, don't get her. I don't
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: get started.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Trap.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about it. I mean she's horrible,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: talk about horrible, angry.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like just getting a divorce and deciding like we'll
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: just split these kids up because we don't want to
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: deal with each other and we're not even going to
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: ever see the other kid again.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, mind, simple as breaking up a twin pack. No problem,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: No problem.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Well, Samantha and I love horror, Love me too Horror.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, no, like like PhD in Horror. Excuse me right here, go.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Ahead, okay, perfect, perfect. Because we've been discussing for a while,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of these tropes you can see, like, oh,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: you know the fifties trope, women stay at home. In
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: the eighties, she's trying to work and bounce all those things.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: But I feel like horror has a separate track where
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: we can see what we're anxious about around women and horror,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: and that has evolved a lot. And I feel like
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: motherhood does come up a lot in horror movies and
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: also things like infertility, child death, pregnancy, abortion, Like on
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: all of these things. What do you think about that.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: That makes so much sense? Because I mean, I don't
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: think this is new. Like my most visceral, primal fear
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: is that something will happen to my children, Like it's
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: so it's like, I mean, a very easy thing to
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: tap into that, like how precious and vulnerable like our
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: young are. But I think you're right, and I didn't
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: think about that. There's a lot of horror movies now,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: some of the better ones that like are really like
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: metaphors for for grief, for like you know, like the
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: separations things like that, And yeah, so maybe you do
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: see a lot more of the like inner, harder aspects
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: of the psyche that like that a mother's going through,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: like I think about you know, like the Bob a
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Duke obviously some other and then her second her follow
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: up to that. Did anyone see the Nightingale?
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Oh did you see? It was one thing? Like I
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: can watch a lot of stuff. I truly had to
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: turn it off at points because it was just so affecting.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: So it's like it's very you know, people are like
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: opposed to like slashers in certain ways, and they're like
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: grotesque and gory and things, but it's like when you
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: play on like very real loss or you know, the
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: fear of it, it's, oh gosh, it's like everything on
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the line.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And we've talked about the fact that because
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: when it comes to pregnancy and the vulnerability of women
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: in general and those who can get pregnant, like they
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: really use that as a scope of like be careful
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: because you are going to be easily possessed, or these
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: children are going to be possessed, or like that level
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: of conversation where like you have to remember having a
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: whole separate being means that you made those control of
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: yourself and you were not going to know who you are?
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: Are you like it's kind of just like foreign aspect
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: of taking this what we see as anatomy and biology
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: and miracles for a lot of people, and they use
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: that as a yeah, but there's a foreign object in
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: your body.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: It is going to get you. Are you ready?
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: Like it's such a horrible level and it comes after
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: again people who can get pregnant. It is very specific
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: like working on those fears. So it seems yeah, and
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: you're right because even in the children, there's like a
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: bad child, like a bad seed. It's like moms, I
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: know you think you have intuition and instinct here do you.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Really know your kids? Do you really? Are you really? Like?
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: It's it that I mean, that's hard because a lot
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: of times you're making these gut calls and you think
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: you're doing the right thing, and those movies play on
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: the fear of like what if I'm not like, what
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: if I don't really know my child? What if I
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: don't know what's best for them or they need more
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: discipline or whatever.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: It is?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it is, there's a lot of that. Yeah,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: do you guys have a favorite horror movie, like, oh,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: of recent years anyway you could say like within the
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: last like five years that has come out And don't
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: say Hereditary because.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: Oh no, that that haunts me. I know, no one
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: haunts me. That was too much, too much. Tony Collet
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: should have won the Oscar.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Go ahead again.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: That's like a loss of child.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a real motherhead one. Yeah.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just feel like it's so prevalent in so
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: much of our horror and then having that like responsibility
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: to care for this child and as you said, that
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: being diving into that fear if I feel like so
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: much that I've seen. We're slowly working on an episode
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: on it right now, because I feel like there's been
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: over the past few years a lot of movies that
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: have been delving into that, and like going back to
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: The Babba Duck, which isn't that recent but fairly recent,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: that was a movie I watched. I was like, oh
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: my god, her kid is so annoying. It felt refreshing
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: because she acknowledged her kid was annoying, Like it wasn't
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: trying to paint this perfect picture totally, and at the
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: end she does arrive at the fact like, no, it's
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: a mess. I have this grief. I'm accepting it. I
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: love him, but it's not perfect. And it felt very
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: new to me.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: I think one of the movies we talk about a
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: lot and we go back and forth about being horror
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: and sci fi and thriller is Alien.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a full on episode because Annie was
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: able to really dig deep in the fight that this
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: is about womanhood, This is about vaginas and fear of
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: birth and fair being alone and fear of being single,
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: and then you start really digging into it and you're like,
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: oh man, it really is and then shifting that alien scene,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: being like, no, men should absolutely be afraid and need
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: to understand like the levels of in this alien scene,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: which is so like pivotal to so many people, and
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: be like, that's one of the grossest and surprising scenes
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: I've ever seen. But it had a huge representation of
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: giving birth and you're like, oh, damn well, that was
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: a thing.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, the movies like that.
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: It kind of gets us and gets me when Annie
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: brings out these perspectives. He's like, I've written essays to Samantha,
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: are you ready? And we're going to talk about this
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: whole movie and it's representation of how they take motherhood
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: for granted and oh my h oh okay, that's what
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: we're doing today, okay.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: And Alien is one of those.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: We had that conversation about Wanda Vision as well, which
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: was that whole TV series.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't see Wanda Vision.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: You didn't. Well, it's really great, like kind of ideology
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: of what people think will happen with child's child loss
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: and women, women losing control of themselves in grief, and
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: now with Agatha all along, I feel like it's I
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: turned back into her own resentment towards her mother. And
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: I've not even seen many episodes. It's just like people
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: talking about it, and that's what it seems to be turning.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: So we're saying so many things that you would think
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: we would eventually get away from. But when it comes
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: to very focused horrors like this, Some of my favorite
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: are the winging movies, the where are those There was
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: that couple who were actually just gotten to a lot
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: of situations that supposedly go around hauntings, Annabelle.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: But it's the other one conju conjuring.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: All of that is about motherhood.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: Like you, like, the basis of the haunting, the basis
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: of like why they're being haunted. It's based on children
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: and motherhood. And I find it fascinating that they're so
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: focused on that. It almost wants to like not the tract,
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: but like it does love the idea of those relationships,
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: the motherhood and the children, the parenthood and the children,
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: and it finally does come to a redeeming factor of
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: like being saved by love or memories of love, any
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: of those things, but it has to take them in
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: such a torturous way.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, your mother is if your mother is like
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: your initial safety in this world, your home truly in
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: this world. It's like I think, yeah, I think that's
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: that's that is also tapping into like a very primal
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: fear in all of us, you know, So yeah, yeah,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: it's true.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's I mean kind of a but very
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: popular trope is you blame the mother in horror. It's
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the mother's fault if the.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Child and you and and actually we stand by that, No,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I'm kidding, we do. I like to make the joke
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: if it's not one thing, it's your mother, and I
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: do think so we always joke about that, and then
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: like our moms will be like, oh, it's always the
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: mom's fault, you know, but and then we say it
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: a kind of it is.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think going back to one of the
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: best and classic horror movies for me, which was very
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: much based on that is Carrie, Like it's.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my God in her Dirty Pillows.
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it holds up still, you know, and like it's
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: being the genre that it is, the conversation texts on religion,
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: the mother periods, like all those things is exactly what
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: a lot of everyone fears, especially periods. I hate it,
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: so you know, yeah, it's all but I find like
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: those types of tropes it just continues.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: It is it is, it still works. Oh yeah. I
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: think it's like there's a there's a central question in
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: like a Carrie type movie where like let's just say, like,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: for instance, your child is not who you wanted them
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: to be or thought they should be, or they're not
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: following like you know, moral, ethical rules or whatever it
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: is which this ties into religiosity. It's I think we
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: all think about that, and and my sense is always
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: and not to sound too bad about it, but that like,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: there's nothing I wouldn't change about my entire life and
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: self based on how my kids develop or need or whatever.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: It is, Like you change, you change the world around
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: your kid, you know what I mean, Not if your
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: child's like a terrible person or anything like that, but
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: you know, so, I think when we see those like
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: like the parents whose rigidity, like I guess, makes the
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: child become a psychopath. Maybe Okay, yeah, I think like
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I I'm very judgmental, like maybe of of people who
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: are expecting their children to fit into a pre existing
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: set of ideologies. Mm hmmm. That makes and I did
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: judge Anny from Seventh Heaven earlier for probably similar I'm
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: very sorry about that.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: We're going to need you to watch it again and
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: report pod.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Hey you guys, easy, easy, easy.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear back from from you about that.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Coming back to this.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So one of the things that I know
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you both have talked about is, you know, sort of
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the what what's the improvements we're seeing in the representation
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: of the mom and our media, but also if how
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: it could get better, could look uh can you talk
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: about that?
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I think it could do.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: It's we're getting better, We're definitely being more honest about
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: the hard parts of motherhood. But I think I would
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: love to see more representation of the mental load and
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: the things that the mom besides childcare, like all of
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: the other things that a mom has to be in
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: charge of and that a mom is doing.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Like, I would love to see that talked.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: About more and shown more because I just genuinely think
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: like a lot of men truly do not think that
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: there's anything extra the women are doing that they're not.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, we need to be showing a little
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: bit about, you know, how much we're all doing.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I think, Uh. Bridgerton is a show that we've talked about,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: like the last season was so was the biggest streaming
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: season of a show ever, And I think that tells
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: us that, however pulpy or so be, it is, like
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: women like to be able to have their fantasies or
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: their desire be centered. We don't want the narrative every
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: story to be led by the male gaze or male
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: desire as we've seen it so many times before. So
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: I think like maybe a show that it doesn't have
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: to be like gratuitous, but to show women pursuing desire,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: having desire being like real, like sensual creatures that we are,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: that doesn't feel like it's sacrificing the mom's ability to
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: be a good mom because she's like going after like
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: a like a you know, an affair or something like that.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that might be I think there
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Bridgerton tells us that there's a lot of women who
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: want to see more of that part, that aspect of
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: themselves on TV, and I think, like, mom, I think
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: that that might make sense.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of the stuff we've been
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: talking about hasn't centered the mom, like you know, the
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: ninety sitcom, she was the like, let's keep this on track.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: So something that's more centering on motherhood and not using
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: it as some kind of plot device or whatever it is.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: I'm curious have you talked about probably yell at me Mills,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Have you talked about this step?
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Have we we've we've desperately I mean we wanted to
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: like violence. Yeah, we've been reaching as we love to chat,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: but well we yeah, yeah, yeah we have. I think
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: it's another trap, another trap like we have referenced.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Like Stiffler's mom and like the idea of like that,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: like like the May December relationship that like who were
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: we talking? What were we talking aboutself? We talked about
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: because she was so garcel bouvet of Real Housewives, Beverly
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Hills and an illustrious acting career in her own. She's
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: in a movie that's like a newer version of like
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: How Stella Got her Groove Back, and so she's in
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: this movie dating much younger man and so we see
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: like the woman as the cougar or whatever. But this
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: did get us talking about Mills and how I just
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: think it's like I don't know, but I just think
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: like when when I was little, my mom she didn't
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: she wasn't trying to look like sexy. I don't know
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: that she wasn't so obsessed with like looking cute, or
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: maybe she was. I think she probably was, because that's
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: just what it is to be a woman, to be
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: aware of your appearance. But I think it's such a
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: trap like that get your body back after baby, and
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: like then try to so what to look like sexually
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: desirable for longer, for who?
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: For me?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's for me. I don't think it's I.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And if it, if it determines that it is for me,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I think would all have to dig deeper and say, like, okay,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: it's for you because you have been conditioned under the patriarchy. Yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: so it's very tough, Like, yes, I want to look
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: good and things like that, but I just think, like,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: you know, we joke, but like you look back at
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: pictures of like moms in like the eighties and nineties,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: and like everyone was wearing a turtleneck with a crew
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: neck sweatshirt over it, and like, you know, no in
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: an acid washed geene that didn't fit like and it
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: was fine, it was fine, And now we're seeing moth
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Like I mean now I only wear athleisure every day.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: So I really shouldn't I shouldn't have a platform to
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: speak on. But I do think it's like I don't.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I just I don't want to have to be so like.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: I don't want to try to be hot ever again,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I'm tired. I don't get mom done with that.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do think, yeah, like my mother is
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: was always trying to be cute, and I think it's exhausting.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Like I was even talking to her on the phone
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: yesterday and I was like.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Who can hairs? You're almost seventy years old, what do
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: you care?
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: When can we let it anymore? You know?
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: So I do think, yeah, trying to be the milk
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: is very exhausting and it's not for me.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: It's not a life for me at all, all right,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: So we're going to take that off your list.
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: No not, that's not part of your bucket list to
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: call the milk at any point in time.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Now what I love too, Yes, but it's not it's
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: not something that comes naturally to me.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna move on. And it's been too hard.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: It's been too troubling for me.
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: You know, different people have different days. And men always
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: talked about how they love to see women dressed down.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: So you may be someone's milk and you.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Just don't know it. Maybe they didn't tell it to
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: your face, so you know, just you guys write in
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: you know, the most of our all of your male listeners.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: They're getting on their computer right now. We have no conversations.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: But it is interesting because even in the depictions of
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: mothers today. And I was thinking about parenthood as well
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: as the Stranger Things. It is that competition to be
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: desired by the younger person, or competing with the younger person,
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: and I am thinking specifically like in the Parenthood where
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: I cannot remember who the characters are, but the main
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: couple with the oldest son his wife. Uh, he goes
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: into the record business and they have a secretary and
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: because she's so nice to her that she thinks that
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: maybe they can have chances. Yes, okay, but ye has
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: that younger secretary who's she's a big actress and I
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: can't ye'all, I've lost all the names, they're gone all
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: the heads.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: So but anyway, but.
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: Like I know that was that that was that type
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: of tagline and uh storyline, but I've seen that a lot.
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: And then like making the guy look like such a
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: great dude because he's able to like, you know, find off.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: He's resisting young young women.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: But that storyline like having women compete with other women
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: or compete with themselves and their age in order to
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: be desirable, And it seems to be like that's the
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: notable sexualized character for the mom's is very rare for
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: them to look like an everyday mom, and every day
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: mom being yeah, sometimes wearing wesa were sometimes just wearing
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: your stained shirts that you have because you have children
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: or you're a clumsy yes me, you know, like not
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: not being always glamored up because you don't have the
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: time or you don't have the Oh you know, not
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: every woman loves to do that.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I will say.
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: My mother also, she came from the country boomer era
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: of like you never leave the house without makeup type
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: of person as well.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Oh you know, but oh you know that generation.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: But well, yeah, I mean and Andy's mom has chased
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: after cars to tell us to put on lipsticks, so
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: she like literally has been like running down the street
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: and been like savvy put on lips no question.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this's embarrassing, but I think you're right. And we
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: talked to I don't know if you guys are aware
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: of Alice Lunin. She wrote on our Best Behavior in
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: this book that dissects the seven Deadly sins, how as
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: they pertain to how he is like how women, so
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: women must be good in our society and all of
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: these things like the don't let yourself go or don't
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: be jealous of other women, but compete with them. Like
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: all of these lines that we have to tow or
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: are so they only apply to women, Like all of
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: these rules, it's like you do not see the equal
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: and opposite for a man. Women are spending so much
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: on injectables and anti aging, and we're all like we
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: you know, young kids, young usuals getting skincare obsessed.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and like just look at like Bill Belichick and
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: he has like a twenty five year old model girlfriend,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, this would not be happening the other
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: way around, right, you know, he just would.
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: It's clearly a lot we could get into.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: But I do feel a lot of times I've heard
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: this argue meant seeing it in media of like men woman,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: his wife, raises their kids, does all this stuff, and
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: then he divorces her for someone younger and is just
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: like entire like going back to what you said, entirely
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: not recognizing what she was doing to do this that
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: she felt she had to hide usually or like had
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: to make it seem like it was normal, not like
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: draw attention to it because we get called out for
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: that as women too, of saying like, oh, this is
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Work, don't show the effort.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Would you know, if if a divorce needs to happen,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: to divorce me to happen. But I just feel like
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I hear that narrative a lot of men being like, oh,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: force her. She didn't do anything for me, and it's
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: like she raised your kids.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Ye yeah, yeah, Well I think that was what was
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: I think, and I could be remembering this wrong, but
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: like when Jeff Bezos and his wife got divorced and
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: she got that huge settlement, I think that's what a
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: lot of people were like kind of excited about, Like
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: she was getting recognized for she helped him make Amazon
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: and she got like half the money, and I think
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: people were like, yeah, she.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Deserves half of man. Well, we talk about rage a lot,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: and we just talked to Katherine Reitman, who is the
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: creator and showrunner and director of Working Directed at Work
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: in Moms and just she talks about how a big
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: theme is like rage and like Sabrina is like if
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: you knew her, like she seems very like she's very
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: funny and she's sharp and like she can be cutting
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: in like a very funny way, but like she seems
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: very mild mannered. But ever since she's had children, she
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: has never something like Casey Wilson in her book The
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Wreckage of My Presence says, I appear to be on
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: the surface, like very calm and collect but below the surface,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: I am like seething, where she's just seething and I've
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: never and she's kind of circled it in the book.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Sent it to me, I said, a gotcha. Next day
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I sent it again, like she's just like it's just like,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I think this makes sense. Yeah, I'm angry. It's so
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: many things that I don't even know if we made
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: a list of food end And I love that. I
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: love that, just raw emotions.
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: But I think, like what I will hope And I
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: haven't seen too many examples because one of the things
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: we love is women women supporting women, but seeing shows
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: where the mothers get to actually support each other and
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: being able to see them being a unit. Recently, I'm
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: really into ca dramas, y'all. There was one like The
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: Love next Door. H is the name of it, but
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: it's about these two moms. Well now it's one of
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: the side stories, is the two moms who've been best
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: friends and have been like around each other for so long.
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: And now their children have grown up and all these things.
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: But it's wonderful because you actually see an example of
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: two women who have been best friends and have gone
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: families and have gone in different directions, but they support
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: each other still and they make sure that they understand
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: that just being a mother is a big part of me.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: But we are still best friends in this timeline still,
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: and I feel like there's not enough of that, and
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: I want to see more of that.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, No, you're so right. You're so
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: right because we say that.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think female friendships are the most important
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: relationships in your life. And I don't think a lot
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: of mothers would survive the day to day if they
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: couldn't talk to their friends about what was happening and
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: have someone that relates to that.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: And I love that.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: I love that in so many things, Like I even
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: watch you know, I love a good teen drama. So
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: I watched The Summer I Turned Pretty and the two moms,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: I mean only in the first season.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: To spoiler, I always reckon.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm sorry I didn't write it, but anyway, the
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: two moms are the best friends. And I loved so
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: much of that, Like I loved watching them together, and yeah,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: I think and we even we saw the new Amy
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: Adams Wooby that will be coming out in a couple
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: of weeks, and there's such great like moms supporting moms
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: in that and it's just great.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's like a a ken. I feel like
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: you both are just gonna have to come back because
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: we have so much we could talk about. But there's
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: such a history of like, I'm also on a food show,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: and we did an episode on Betty Crocker and how
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: women felt so alone and so Betty Crocker became such
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: an important person to them that people actually cried when
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: they found out she wasn't real.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's hard for Yeah, but like that in.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: A history of kind of being a mom being isolated.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: But then as we've moved forward, having those friendships and
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: having that support and being able to say, like, hey,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: this does feel like running through molasses every day? Am
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: I right? Like having that and having that friendship and
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: how important it is. Because we've also done episodes on
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: how women usually live longer after their husband passed away
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: in a very heteronormed of sense because they have those
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: friendships and men don't. So I think that's incredibly, incredibly important,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: and it's like just the value of having someone you
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: can just vent too.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and who Like I noticed that, Like with
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Sabena and I, like in a lot of ways we joke,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: but it is like sort of true, like she is
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: my wife, like I am her wife, and there's like
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: I I know what it would mean for someone to
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: take care of me, and so I try to take
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: care of her like that, and he tries to take
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: care of me. Like it's just even like in our
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: business together, it's like we do a thing where like
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: if one of us gets to an email and there's
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: a question what, the person who got there fastest is
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: answering it, and the shop is closed because like I
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: want to take something off your plate. I don't want
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: to give you any more like decisions to make or whatever.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: So I think like maybe as we age, I don't
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: even think it has it almost doesn't have to do
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: with motherhood, but as you age, you just try to
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: realize to take care of each other in the way
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: that we want to be taken care of. And it
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: does come back. It does come back to you with
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: your female friendship.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: They think.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: With all of that.
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: Obviously, with your friendships growing, are there shows or is
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: there something that sticks out, especially with these fictional women
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: characters that you can see as being advice for real
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: life moms and just in general older women who are
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: trying to live day by day.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: I sail, I think Grays and Frankie. Oh that's not good. Now.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: I only saw a little bit, so I can't speak
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: to the whole show, but I think that was a
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: beautiful and I think even just just listen to any
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: podcast that Jane Fond has ever done because she's she's
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: so she has such lasting friendships that she can talk about.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I love this. One of my favorite shows, like top
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: five shows all time is Penn fifteen and Maya Erskine
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: and Anna Ryan Conkle, who created the show and act
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: in the show, Like, I think that that's like a whole,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: really beautiful love letter to your best friend. So I
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: always think of that. And I know that they're just young,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: they're like in middle school and entering high school, but
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: it's it's so special feeling.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And we we interviewed Jessica Saint Clair, who we
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: just think is the funniest. We love her so much,
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: and she created a show called Playing House with her
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: best friend and it's you know, one of them helping
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: the other raise a baby, and that's.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Just such it was. It was only on.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: For three seasons, but it's so great and I people
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: should watch that one. It's so funny and it's so
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: like when you think about that, you're like, yeah, another
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: woman would be a help with me.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: That would be helpful. Now, Sabrina did just watch a
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Netflix series that she told me was based on my
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: twin flame, which was a mom who's gonna go and kill. Yes,
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: but that was a crime, which says a lot about
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: my my personhood lost in the fire. I mean, that
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: is a great tale of motherhood. This there's someone on
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: TV that is your twin flame. It's just a crime doctor. Yeah.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: And apparently she she seems like she's seeking revenge. So yeah,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: she was out for what is a compliment, you know
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: what I mean? No, I took it as one.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: I really did.
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: I mean for all like maybe like, yeah, you know what,
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: you need to be aware this is me.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: So that's great. Yeah, I'm gonna I said, it doesn't
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: have to be my child that goes missing. Guys, any
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: any of you call me, I'll come five stakes over.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I'll have permits on the land.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: I'll just Andy's definitely like the fierce one in the friendship,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: and we have like a pact where like, if there
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: is an apocalypse, she will take the children against the children.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: I won't take Sabrina me down, but I'll know you'll
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: just slow me down. Yeah you did. Wait, we're going
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: to take the kids right now. As of right now,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: I've promised myself it's just me and five kids and
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: going up up or down. I don't know if we're
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: heading up to Canadackar going down to you know, Central
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: and South America at some point a motion. But anyway, Yeah,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: so I have a lot of fun.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: Hey, I like that there's realistic promises, like you're not
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: trying to be like cutesy and like no.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: No, slow the process down. It's the nicest thing anyone
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: could ever say to you. Yeah, we're leaving you.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: I've already told my friends I'm going to trip them.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: So that faster than the person, I'm a find a way.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding that. Yeah, we know the resources will
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: be scarce.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Come on, got to have these plans in place you've.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Got well, like we saw the last of us.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: I was I think I could play that game professional.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: You can't anyway. Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Sorry, if we really took it off the rails here,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: we love that.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. Clearly, you're welcome
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: back any time, because there's so much to talk about
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: with this and listeners go check out their podcast. Can
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: you tell the good listeners where to find you?
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, so you can listen to pop culture Moms wherever
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: you listen to podcasts, and please do, and then you
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: can find us on Instagram. Andy's Andy M. Mitchell and
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: I'm Skolberg. Thank you so much for having us good
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: friendship right there.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know that we could do the social media
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: for ourselves.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't think we could. No.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: Wait, you know what the funny thing is, I know
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: for sure that's hers. But after I said mine, I'm like,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: I don't think that.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: No, you didn't know if it was your yea, I know,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if mine is actually a Skohlberg And
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: I know for sure.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, thank you, thank you, thank you for coming on.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, you can. You
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: can email us a stuffid you, mom stuff at iHeartMedia
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at momst podcast,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: We have a tea pub bookstore. We also have a
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: as always too our super producer Christina or executive producer Maya,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is production of
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you
• 1:02:47
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• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite show