Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Jim Markel: Gear Designer and Global Adventurer

Transcript

Jim Markel: Gear Designer and Global Adventurer · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
0:07
Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I am here for Day
0:10
Speaker 1: one of the Overland Expo. It is very well attended.
0:13
Speaker 1: There are people everywhere in booths everywhere, but I got
0:16
Speaker 1: to take a few minutes to spend some time with
0:18
Speaker 1: a longtime friend, Jim Markle, and he is the co
0:21
Speaker 1: founder and CEO of red Ox Bags. Now, these are
0:25
Speaker 1: bags I have used around the world, and this podcast
0:29
Speaker 1: is not really so much about that product, but it
0:31
Speaker 1: is my appreciation for them and the fact that I've
0:34
Speaker 1: used them on seven continents that really led me to
0:37
Speaker 1: want to have a conversation with Jim. And we've also
0:40
Speaker 1: gotten to know each other from some travels together as well,
0:43
Speaker 1: and I learned a little bit about his story, which
0:45
Speaker 1: I find fascinating and I think you all will very
0:47
Speaker 1: much enjoy today. So thank you Jim for being on
0:50
Speaker 1: the podcast today. Awesome Scott, great to be here. And
0:52
Speaker 1: now a word from one of the supporters of our podcast,
0:56
Speaker 1: red Arc. At Overland Journal, we go off grid every
0:59
Speaker 1: chance we get, from the most technical trails to crossing continents.
1:02
Speaker 1: It's no match for red arcs toe pro Elite. This
1:05
Speaker 1: Brake controller has been torture tested in the toughest place
1:08
Speaker 1: on the planet, the Australian out Back. Easy to install,
1:11
Speaker 1: it's dash mount remote head makes for quick calibration and
1:14
Speaker 1: ensures you won't be hitting your knees. You can seamlessly
1:17
Speaker 1: switch between proportional for the highway and user controlled for
1:20
Speaker 1: the steepest, most rugged trails out there. You may not
1:23
Speaker 1: trust the terrain you're on, but you can always trust
1:26
Speaker 1: red arcs toe pro elite toe with confidence by visiting
1:29
Speaker 1: red Arc Electronics dot com. One of the first things
1:32
Speaker 1: that come to mind is how your company was founded.
1:36
Speaker 1: Your father's involvement and his involvement in your life and
1:39
Speaker 1: his military career is so interesting. Would you mind sharing
1:43
Speaker 1: a little bit about your dad.
1:44
Speaker 2: Well, everybody you know says who's your hero, and I
1:47
Speaker 2: think Superman or whatever, And my superman was my father,
1:50
Speaker 2: and he led by example. He spent nine years in
1:54
Speaker 2: the Marine Corps and eleven years in the Army. He
1:56
Speaker 2: was an officer. He was enlisted, started out Mustang up
2:00
Speaker 2: through Vietnam, three tours with the Green Berets, and then
2:03
Speaker 2: he switched over to the Marine Corps and finished out
2:05
Speaker 2: his career UH Marine recon.
2:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing. And so your dad he served in Vietnam.
2:13
Speaker 1: What other areas of the world did he serve in
2:15
Speaker 1: as well?
2:16
Speaker 2: Well? He was in Okinawa and Germany. I was born
2:19
Speaker 2: in Italy, Okay, and while he was in OCS that
2:21
Speaker 2: was in the sixties and we were all over. So
2:24
Speaker 2: with two branches of the service under his belt, I
2:27
Speaker 2: ended up transferring to seventeen different schools growing up all
2:30
Speaker 2: over the United States. And I sometimes forget all the
2:32
Speaker 2: different places I've lived, and then I'll see something on
2:35
Speaker 2: the news, I'm like, I used to live there.
2:37
Speaker 1: And that's one of the questions that I wanted to
2:38
Speaker 1: ask you, is that ability to travel around the world
2:42
Speaker 1: that way? How did that prepare you for your own travels,
2:45
Speaker 1: your own adventures. Think back on some of the skills
2:48
Speaker 1: you gained by living in all these countries, and maybe
2:50
Speaker 1: share with the audience what you feel is kind of
2:53
Speaker 1: the fundamentals or the foundations of what you learned as
2:55
Speaker 1: a traveler.
2:56
Speaker 2: One of the things is when you're always a new guy,
2:58
Speaker 2: new kid, you know, you get tested and you learn
3:00
Speaker 2: to be observant, right, So you come into situations, social situations,
3:04
Speaker 2: and you need to make friends quickly. Sure, and make
3:07
Speaker 2: a lot of friends, but you did better make one
3:09
Speaker 2: and being observant that I think that that was something
3:13
Speaker 2: that developed naturally within me. So you learn the lay
3:15
Speaker 2: of the land. If you live in the South, you know,
3:17
Speaker 2: you learn how the southern people live, and in the
3:20
Speaker 2: North and Pennsylvania or you know, when we're on recruiting duty, Sure,
3:24
Speaker 2: and then back out to California a few times, and
3:26
Speaker 2: Sure learned how to surf. And yeah, so you just
3:28
Speaker 2: kind of like accept whatever culture you're in at the time. Yeah,
3:32
Speaker 2: so you're kind of a chameleon. But it also influences
3:35
Speaker 2: the way you think. You don't realize it at the time,
3:37
Speaker 2: but you're actually developing skill sets that will serve you
3:40
Speaker 2: later on in life.
3:41
Speaker 1: And when you look back and when you and it's
3:43
Speaker 1: just so wonderful to hear you talk about your father
3:46
Speaker 1: in the way that you do, because I feel very
3:48
Speaker 1: much the same about my own dad. But what were
3:50
Speaker 1: some of the key lessons that you took away from him,
3:53
Speaker 1: Like when you think back on your dad's life or
3:54
Speaker 1: maybe even the things that he sat down with you
3:57
Speaker 1: and shared that were important for him for you to know,
4:00
Speaker 1: what were some of those key lessons that you feel
4:02
Speaker 1: like you took away from your dad.
4:03
Speaker 2: Discipline, self discipline, make a promise, keep it, yeah, and
4:07
Speaker 2: you know, never quit. Yeah, You're you're capable of way
4:10
Speaker 2: more than you realize. And he wouldn't really never accept
4:14
Speaker 2: no for an answer, you know, sure, say well I didn't,
4:17
Speaker 2: why didn't you clean your room or whatever? And to
4:18
Speaker 2: the point where, you know, because I was always on
4:20
Speaker 2: the go, right and so you know, if I could
4:22
Speaker 2: get out and go to the beach before cleaning the room,
4:24
Speaker 2: he'd make me stand inspection on Sunday mornings before I
4:28
Speaker 2: could go to the beach, and especially once I got
4:29
Speaker 2: a car, you know, because I tried to slip out
4:31
Speaker 2: early in the morning. He's like, not so fast. So,
4:35
Speaker 2: and he taught me field craft and bushcraft and how
4:38
Speaker 2: to think asymmetrically, and so he was always challenging me
4:41
Speaker 2: in ways that for my personality. I was a very
4:45
Speaker 2: pretty wild child, as you say, but I was very
4:48
Speaker 2: independent and headstrong, and so at seventeen, he shipped me
4:51
Speaker 2: off to the Marine Corps and they, you know, they
4:54
Speaker 2: tampered that down a little bit, but I was still
4:56
Speaker 2: I'm still pretty wild in the corps too. Yeah.
4:58
Speaker 1: Well, and I say same thing for me. My grandfather
5:02
Speaker 1: was in the Marines. He was a chief warrant officer.
5:05
Speaker 1: He served Ewajima, Guadalcanal, and he is certainly one of
5:08
Speaker 1: the heroes in my life and has had such an
5:11
Speaker 1: impact in my life. And he only passed away last
5:13
Speaker 1: year at ninety five years old. Three purple hearts. I mean,
5:16
Speaker 1: an amazing guy. And that was one of the things
5:19
Speaker 1: that I remember so much from him when I was
5:21
Speaker 1: growing up is that he was tenacious. Like when he
5:24
Speaker 1: went from the military into the civilian world. He realized
5:28
Speaker 1: that people give up too early, and I remember him.
5:30
Speaker 2: Telling me that.
5:31
Speaker 1: I remember that was one of the few things that
5:32
Speaker 1: he shared with me, is that you just don't give up.
5:34
Speaker 2: I just keep put.
5:35
Speaker 1: And he built his own kind of empire of his
5:37
Speaker 1: own business after he got out of the military, and
5:40
Speaker 1: it made such a difference for our entire family after
5:43
Speaker 1: that happened. So it's pretty amazing to see the lessons
5:46
Speaker 1: that we learned in the military that how they translate
5:49
Speaker 1: to the civilian space. So maybe that's the next question
5:52
Speaker 1: for you is how long did you spend in the Marines.
5:55
Speaker 1: What were some of the experiences that you had that
5:58
Speaker 1: you'd like to share with the audience that you think
6:00
Speaker 1: performative to your life. What lessons, what real lessons did
6:02
Speaker 1: you take away from that experience? Well, the overarching lesson
6:06
Speaker 1: from the military for me would be that you learned
6:08
Speaker 1: everything you ever needed to learn about leading people right there. Yeah,
6:11
Speaker 1: And I served for four years, and you know, crazy
6:14
Speaker 1: as my old man, I love and wanted to jump
6:16
Speaker 1: out of airplanes and started out as a parachute rigor
6:18
Speaker 1: and air delivery. And then I was at the pool
6:20
Speaker 1: one day and doing shallow water long distance swimming for
6:24
Speaker 1: money and the gunnery sergeant caught onto it and confiscated
6:28
Speaker 1: the bedding and had a company party. And then a
6:31
Speaker 1: month later I got orders to recon Battalion in California.
6:35
Speaker 1: He kind of looked at me as like, I got
6:36
Speaker 1: just a place for you and put.
6:39
Speaker 2: That energy to good work, right right. I was a
6:41
Speaker 2: pretty mischievous corporal by the time I got out. It
6:43
Speaker 2: was an NCO, but I was pretty much you know,
6:46
Speaker 2: running a buck within the company and organizing and you know,
6:49
Speaker 2: having parties and then doing adventure trips with the guys.
6:52
Speaker 2: We'd all pile you know, our serapies on our mountain
6:54
Speaker 2: bikes and head off into the boonies for the weekend. Sure,
6:57
Speaker 2: and so it was kind of like it was a
6:59
Speaker 2: lot of fun I learned it. You know, no combat time.
7:02
Speaker 2: I was in from eighty five to eighty nine, but
7:04
Speaker 2: the training and stuff is pretty intense. A lot of
7:06
Speaker 2: injuries and stuff like that. People get hurt with ye
7:08
Speaker 2: your frutialities and things like that. That definitely show you
7:11
Speaker 2: that it's not just fun and games, and when you're serving,
7:14
Speaker 2: it can be taken out really quickly.
7:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I think for me, when I
7:18
Speaker 1: look back on my time in the Air Force, it
7:20
Speaker 1: was just the fact that the military gave me a
7:23
Speaker 1: framework that I desperately needed. At nineteen years old, I
7:26
Speaker 1: just didn't I was I felt like I was a
7:28
Speaker 1: ship with all of this potential, all the sales were up.
7:31
Speaker 1: I was ready to go into the world, but I
7:34
Speaker 1: had no rudder. So I just felt like I was
7:36
Speaker 1: being blown around in every direction. And I don't speak
7:39
Speaker 1: for anybody else, it's just from my experience the military.
7:42
Speaker 1: It gave it helped me build that rudder of realizing
7:45
Speaker 1: that if you set a goal and you aim towards it,
7:47
Speaker 1: A lot of times you'll get there, and to also
7:49
Speaker 1: leave with the GI bill. I don't know if that
7:51
Speaker 1: was something you also were able to take advantage of.
7:54
Speaker 1: But for me to be able to pay for my
7:55
Speaker 1: education that I wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise,
7:58
Speaker 1: It paid for my first home. Those kinds of things
8:00
Speaker 1: that made military gave me such a leg up in
8:03
Speaker 1: the areas that I needed that I desperately needed.
8:06
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was I think the starting point for
8:09
Speaker 2: my life. The four years went by so fast. Rather
8:11
Speaker 2: than go to college, I went to the military. Sure,
8:14
Speaker 2: I tried to go to college after the military, and
8:16
Speaker 2: that's about the time I started into business for myself
8:18
Speaker 2: and before I realized that I had employees and big responsibilities.
8:21
Speaker 2: And I walked away from college after about a year
8:24
Speaker 2: and a half. And I don't have any regrets with that.
8:27
Speaker 1: I think it's a I think it's actually a great
8:28
Speaker 1: choice for most people. There are certainly professions that require education,
8:33
Speaker 1: like if you want to become a lawyer or whatever,
8:34
Speaker 1: or a doctor, that's a good idea, no trial and
8:37
Speaker 1: error for that, But certainly the pursuit of business. When
8:41
Speaker 1: I look back on my degree, I don't think that
8:44
Speaker 1: I really took much away from that that I applied
8:47
Speaker 1: to my own business. But I definitely learned on the
8:49
Speaker 1: job when I worked in other businesses and I had
8:52
Speaker 1: I was lucky to have wonderful bosses and they taught
8:54
Speaker 1: me so much about being a leader and a businessman.
8:57
Speaker 1: And you had that in your dad. So, if I
8:59
Speaker 1: remember correctly, your dad founded red Ox and then you
9:03
Speaker 1: started working with him. How did that all happen?
9:05
Speaker 2: So I was at the parallel off there and at
9:08
Speaker 2: Camp Pendleton, and the phone rings and it's senior on
9:10
Speaker 2: the phone. He's like, I need some webbing, thread and
9:13
Speaker 2: some other stuff. He is, you know, go down to
9:15
Speaker 2: the DMRO locker, which is the decommissioning locker, and send
9:18
Speaker 2: me some stuff, send me a care package. So the
9:21
Speaker 2: red Ox was founded on petty larceny. And uh so
9:25
Speaker 2: I took a foot locker filled a full of thread
9:27
Speaker 2: and webbing and put on the greyhound bus to Billings, Montana.
9:30
Speaker 1: Wow.
9:31
Speaker 2: So Dad's last duty station was he was the n
9:33
Speaker 2: CIC of Training, noncommission Officer in charge of training for
9:36
Speaker 2: the fourth RECN up there in Billings, Montana, when they
9:39
Speaker 2: had a unit back there. So anyway, and then I
9:42
Speaker 2: forgot all about it three years later, so I get
9:44
Speaker 2: out and then he asked me to come join him,
9:47
Speaker 2: you know, gave me the talk. I was living in
9:48
Speaker 2: the mountains of Colorado, still feral. Oh, I went completely feral.
9:53
Speaker 2: I bought a Harley and yeah, and moved up to
9:56
Speaker 2: a little cabin that had no hot running water, and
9:59
Speaker 2: I got the rent for the year was eighteen hundred bucks. Wow,
10:02
Speaker 2: and you chopped your own wood, you know. The deal
10:05
Speaker 2: amazing And it was a great year. I made actually
10:07
Speaker 2: zero money that year, and I just lived off my
10:10
Speaker 2: savings and kind of decompression, you know, if I was interested.
10:12
Speaker 2: By that time, i'd been, and I had moved over
10:14
Speaker 2: to Foreserycon and so a lot of intense training, and
10:18
Speaker 2: like the cycle, I hadn't realized the psychological pressure of
10:21
Speaker 2: continuous high speed training like that, what it does to
10:24
Speaker 2: your mind. Sure, it spins you up tight, and I
10:26
Speaker 2: didn't realize how tight I was. So it took a
10:29
Speaker 2: whole year and did absolutely nothing but ride motorcycles and
10:32
Speaker 2: hunt deer and chase women.
10:36
Speaker 1: So that year you were in the cabin. Because I
10:39
Speaker 1: can see how this translates to your love of overland
10:41
Speaker 1: travel as well. Talk to me a little bit about
10:43
Speaker 1: that experience. How did you unwind? Like, what were some
10:46
Speaker 1: of the things that you found really made the difference.
10:49
Speaker 1: Was it that you just had moments of quiet or
10:51
Speaker 1: what was it that really helped you unwind the point
10:54
Speaker 1: that you could take your dad's call for the next step.
10:57
Speaker 2: Solo camping, I would. I would take my rucksack my dog,
11:00
Speaker 2: and load up a handgun and just head off into
11:03
Speaker 2: the into the hills. I roun Like's Peak area. Wow.
11:06
Speaker 2: And I would camp for three or four or five
11:07
Speaker 2: days alone. Yeah. Dog and I continued that practice for
11:11
Speaker 2: quite a few years. And then I bought a Toyota
11:13
Speaker 2: Landcruis or a little FJ forty with a three twenty
11:16
Speaker 2: seven in it. Oh nice, and we would by then,
11:18
Speaker 2: you know, we just would have our adventures. And my
11:20
Speaker 2: dad at that point he gave me about a year
11:22
Speaker 2: and he came down to Colorado and he gave me
11:24
Speaker 2: the talk. Sure, son, you know, you need to need
11:27
Speaker 2: to get a direction in your life. Again, I don't
11:29
Speaker 2: mind the long hair, but so I and I thought
11:33
Speaker 2: about it. He left, you know, and I, let's just
11:35
Speaker 2: say I had an incident with somebody in Yeah, a
11:38
Speaker 2: fistfight and I was wanted for assault. So I like,
11:41
Speaker 2: I jumped on the bike and booked it to Montana. Yeah,
11:45
Speaker 2: and it's a place to hide out. Yeah, it gets
11:46
Speaker 2: the place to hide out. So and from that point,
11:48
Speaker 2: you know, the school started and I started like straightening
11:51
Speaker 2: my life out a little bit. By the time I
11:53
Speaker 2: was twenty six, I quit drinking, which was a big
11:56
Speaker 2: turning point for sure. I think I was using alcohol
11:59
Speaker 2: to cope with some probably a form of minor PTSD.
12:02
Speaker 2: You know, been through a lot of my life, you know,
12:03
Speaker 2: a lot of close scrapes. When I say I was
12:06
Speaker 2: pretty wild as a child, I was definitely on the
12:09
Speaker 2: outer limits of keeping it together. Oh yeah, a lot
12:11
Speaker 2: of risk taking, sure, poor impulse control, as they said.
12:15
Speaker 2: So Dad, at that point we were doing Redox was
12:17
Speaker 2: founded in the weight training category. We did lift those
12:20
Speaker 2: traps weight training belts. We worked for companies like Joe Wheeder.
12:25
Speaker 2: That was awesome. Yeah, And so we were like this
12:27
Speaker 2: little manufacturing company that started with nothing and we were
12:29
Speaker 2: servicing business to business. And then that was in the
12:32
Speaker 2: nineties and then as China rose, we got squeezed out.
12:36
Speaker 2: Dad wanted to retire and so that's when I was
12:39
Speaker 2: getting more into like the hunting phase of my life.
12:42
Speaker 2: So I was started making hunting gear and doing hunting shows,
12:45
Speaker 2: and then travel bags and stuff like that because I
12:47
Speaker 2: kept breaking everything that I've ever owned unless it was
12:49
Speaker 2: military grade. Sure demand, I'm pretty hard on gear. So
12:53
Speaker 2: I just started making my own stuff. And then we
12:55
Speaker 2: eventually exited the fitness category, which we now just kind
12:58
Speaker 2: of brought back for our thirty fifth Anniverse. That's kind
13:00
Speaker 2: of fun though. Yeah, just a couple of things, and
13:02
Speaker 2: honor honoring Dad, we did a poster of him when
13:05
Speaker 2: he was in his bodybuilding days. He used to be
13:07
Speaker 2: a semi professional bodybuilder. Amazing. He was a beast, I mean,
13:10
Speaker 2: big arms and sure, so I never put on the
13:13
Speaker 2: size that he did. He sure had to be. He
13:15
Speaker 2: started me in the gym at like eleven years old,
13:17
Speaker 2: and all I did was get scrawnier and like more wiry. Sure,
13:21
Speaker 2: but it's place too, Yeah it does. Yeah, so pound
13:24
Speaker 2: for pound, I was very strong, but sure, you know,
13:27
Speaker 2: but I never got any size. Yeah. Sure.
13:29
Speaker 1: One of the things that I wanted to ask you
13:31
Speaker 1: is like, what makes a great bag, because one of
13:34
Speaker 1: the things that I have noticed is that there are
13:37
Speaker 1: more and more companies that are now also offering soft goods,
13:41
Speaker 1: and some of it is good and some of it
13:43
Speaker 1: is not good. What are some of the things that
13:45
Speaker 1: if you were to give people advice on what to
13:47
Speaker 1: look for in luggage, in soft luggage, in bags that
13:51
Speaker 1: you would store your equipment in your vehicle, What are
13:53
Speaker 1: some of the key components that you would recommend people
13:56
Speaker 1: look for.
13:56
Speaker 2: I like redundant failure points number one. It's kind of
13:59
Speaker 2: a milt spec civilian market philosophy. So if it'll start
14:02
Speaker 2: to break, here there's a backup point in it. So
14:04
Speaker 2: I build things like that. Less pockets is bigger. And
14:07
Speaker 2: so when I was a young rigger, I would make
14:09
Speaker 2: the officers bags and trade them for parachute jumps, and
14:12
Speaker 2: they would say, you know you can, I'll take you
14:14
Speaker 2: up again two more times. And so in some days
14:16
Speaker 2: I'd get four or five jumps. How cool as that?
14:18
Speaker 2: You know, bribe the pilots, right, Sure, that's how the
14:20
Speaker 2: military works, folks, no doubt. And so less is more minimalism.
14:25
Speaker 2: And then and and it even goes to the point
14:27
Speaker 2: to what you know you don't want to You think
14:28
Speaker 2: you'd want a pocket for everything, until you go hunting
14:30
Speaker 2: through a bunch of pockets. And sure, I've gotten into
14:33
Speaker 2: color coding, and I've been into it forever in a day,
14:35
Speaker 2: and so I'll color code interior compartments like little packing
14:38
Speaker 2: cubes that we do with with brighter colors. Sure, and
14:41
Speaker 2: it's like, why don't you make things in camouflage, And
14:43
Speaker 2: I'm like, I literally, even though I served active duty
14:46
Speaker 2: four years, I was born in the military. I feel
14:48
Speaker 2: like I did my twenty Sure you did, literally, And
14:52
Speaker 2: so things like that is what I look for. You know, rugged, reliable.
14:55
Speaker 2: You know that's great, and you know some of the
14:57
Speaker 2: stuff you know that if you look at some products made,
15:00
Speaker 2: they're built in a way that they're how should I
15:02
Speaker 2: put this, They're engineered for manufacturing, not for use? Oh sure?
15:06
Speaker 2: And so in what engineering for manufacturing means is like
15:09
Speaker 2: you lower the cost in a lean way and just
15:12
Speaker 2: keep cutting steps out, sometimes cutting those steps out. It's
15:15
Speaker 2: the dependability of the product right. Building and handcrafting in
15:19
Speaker 2: a way makes our products. You know, I believe the toughest,
15:22
Speaker 2: strongest products that they can possibly be. Now, are they
15:25
Speaker 2: the easiest and fastest to build? No, But we do
15:28
Speaker 2: that for a reason. And you do make them in
15:30
Speaker 2: the United States absolutely at least source. You know, we're
15:33
Speaker 2: like very compliant, which is the very amendment we could
15:36
Speaker 2: we could sell directly to the military if we wanted to. Sure,
15:39
Speaker 2: that's not the model.
15:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple of things that I've noticed on
15:43
Speaker 1: the soft bags is you've got to have a way
15:45
Speaker 1: to lash them down. That seems to be really important
15:48
Speaker 1: in the vehicles because we're talking about putting bags on racks.
15:50
Speaker 1: We're talking about putting bags in the storage compartment in
15:53
Speaker 1: the back of an suv or in the back of
15:55
Speaker 1: a pickup. So having rings or loops that you can tie.
15:59
Speaker 2: The down with.
16:01
Speaker 1: Another thing that I like to do is tie bags together,
16:03
Speaker 1: so carabiner two corners of two bags together, which now
16:07
Speaker 1: becomes essentially a net if you keep building it across
16:10
Speaker 1: the load surface and then you lash down at the corners,
16:13
Speaker 1: so now you don't have these bags flying around on
16:16
Speaker 1: the inside of a vehicle. It's also one of the
16:18
Speaker 1: things that I notice is a lot of bags. A
16:22
Speaker 1: small bag will have a zipper, maybe even a waterproof zipper,
16:26
Speaker 1: but then when you get to their biggest bag, it
16:27
Speaker 1: has the same zipper. That doesn't work. I've had those
16:30
Speaker 1: failure points where the small bag you can't load it
16:33
Speaker 1: up with enough weight, have a zipper failure. It's the
16:35
Speaker 1: right zipper for that bag. But when you get to
16:38
Speaker 1: a sixty liter bag or an eighty liter bag or
16:40
Speaker 1: one hundred liter bag and it still has this very
16:43
Speaker 1: small waterproof zipper on it. That's where I tend to
16:45
Speaker 1: see failures is you know, you drop one of the
16:47
Speaker 1: handles and then it just splits the whole thing open
16:50
Speaker 1: because they can't take that kind of pressure. And what
16:52
Speaker 1: I noticed with your bags, this is not about red ox,
16:56
Speaker 1: but it happens to be a good example, is that
16:58
Speaker 1: you'll have one of these little belt packs and it'll
17:01
Speaker 1: have the same zipper on it as one hundred liter bag.
17:05
Speaker 2: So they're all really built well. Like I said earlier,
17:07
Speaker 2: I was really hard on gear. I still am. I'll
17:09
Speaker 2: buy the best and beat it. It's kind of a
17:11
Speaker 2: philosophy that I live by. You know, I don't mind
17:13
Speaker 2: spending money on quality, sure, but if you know, if
17:16
Speaker 2: I want to hammer and nail with my pocket knife,
17:18
Speaker 2: it better be able to handle it. So sure, I've
17:20
Speaker 2: got a nice Chris Reeves titanium knife that I've had
17:23
Speaker 2: for twenty years and I've shown it to people and
17:25
Speaker 2: they're like, that's really used. I'm like, but it's not broken.
17:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that's That's one of the
17:29
Speaker 1: things that a lot of a lot of us are
17:32
Speaker 1: trying to pay attention to. Now I find myself doing that,
17:34
Speaker 1: is if I can buy something that will last long
17:38
Speaker 1: enough for me to give it to my nephews, those
17:42
Speaker 1: purchases start to feel a little bit better to me.
17:44
Speaker 1: Now I realize that I just get this overload of equipment.
17:47
Speaker 1: I mean, the industry that we're in, we're always getting equipment.
17:50
Speaker 1: But it's interesting. The things that stay will donate to
17:53
Speaker 1: charities and we'll give it to some of our other editors.
17:56
Speaker 1: But the things that I tend to keep personally are
17:59
Speaker 1: those component that should last a lifetime because I just
18:02
Speaker 1: don't want the frustration of having a failure in the
18:04
Speaker 1: middle of Africa. I mean, I believe in our conversations
18:07
Speaker 1: that part of what made you build these bags the
18:09
Speaker 1: way that you do is because you want to go
18:11
Speaker 1: to the middle of Africa, you want to go hunting,
18:13
Speaker 1: and you don't want to have equipment failure in the
18:15
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. When you talk about gear like that.
18:18
Speaker 1: You just talk about the Chris Reeves knife. What are
18:20
Speaker 1: some other pieces of kit that you have just come
18:22
Speaker 1: to know and love throughout the years. What are some
18:25
Speaker 1: other gadgets that you're just like, this is the one.
18:27
Speaker 2: So when it comes to like new gadgets, So right now,
18:30
Speaker 2: I'm really in love with these new Goal zero pop
18:32
Speaker 2: up planterns. So every few years when when I want
18:35
Speaker 2: to refresh the kit, I'll hop on down to the
18:37
Speaker 2: outdoorstore and grab some stuff and just see what's out
18:39
Speaker 2: on the market. There's Jewelie string lights with the full charge.
18:42
Speaker 2: I bought that as well for this trip because my
18:43
Speaker 2: old stuff that remember the blow up ones they had all, yeah,
18:46
Speaker 2: those are those. Those are toasts. And then like my
18:48
Speaker 2: standby gear, believe it or not, I still have like
18:51
Speaker 2: a nineteen forties mess kit nice and I said, I
18:54
Speaker 2: don't hike with it or anything, but I still have
18:56
Speaker 2: it in the in the rig, and sure the sprinter.
18:58
Speaker 2: I'm pretty minimalist though, I mean al Geene bottles, I
19:01
Speaker 2: love those things. And then we have Seki Edge, which
19:04
Speaker 2: is a brand out of Japan makes tweezers and personal
19:07
Speaker 2: grooming because field sensation is very important it is. I
19:10
Speaker 2: mean they beat that into us literally, yeah. They you
19:14
Speaker 2: have to stay clean in the field, trench foot problem. Yeah.
19:17
Speaker 2: I've got a basic tent that I picked up. It's
19:19
Speaker 2: a green sport tent from South Africa using that for years.
19:21
Speaker 2: A national Lunar fridge and equipped one when they literally
19:25
Speaker 2: first started, probably from the first container because we were
19:28
Speaker 2: using those in Africa and those fridges are amazing. Yeah.
19:32
Speaker 2: So I've got a very basic kit. And I think
19:35
Speaker 2: when I was last night when I laid down to sleep,
19:37
Speaker 2: I'm sleeping on my butler bag are awesome. Yeah, things
19:41
Speaker 2: like everyth's like off, turn on my heater. I'm like, dude,
19:42
Speaker 2: I don't need a heat it is those are those
19:44
Speaker 2: are made in Utah? Yeah, and uh those things are gnarly. Yeah.
19:49
Speaker 2: So I'll take that bag a roll of cot which
19:53
Speaker 2: is another domestic product. So you see a little theme
19:56
Speaker 2: here where I'm a lot of US, European or South
19:59
Speaker 2: African made gear. I'll put that in a big duffel
20:01
Speaker 2: that'll go below the plane. That's my home, you know.
20:04
Speaker 2: Sometimes no ten, I'll just sleep under the stars, especially
20:07
Speaker 2: because I really have come to like West Africa. Sure,
20:09
Speaker 2: and then I'll have a carry on bag with no
20:11
Speaker 2: more than three of anything, no more and usually two
20:14
Speaker 2: like two pairs of shorts, wear one pair of long pants.
20:17
Speaker 2: I wear my nice outfit on the airplane sport code
20:20
Speaker 2: even sometimes. And then I put all my other gear
20:23
Speaker 2: in my carry on bag. And then I have a
20:24
Speaker 2: personal line in which carries a pair of like of binoculars,
20:27
Speaker 2: which I've had for twenty some odd years, and then
20:29
Speaker 2: a couple of different Surefire flashlights that I scored from
20:32
Speaker 2: an old Marine Corps buddy who worked at Surefire. And
20:35
Speaker 2: other than that, that's about all I'll take. And then
20:38
Speaker 2: you can always find a lean to a hut somewhere hell,
20:42
Speaker 2: sleep under the truck if you have to. It's a
20:44
Speaker 2: good spot. And the lions don't want to kind of
20:47
Speaker 2: come around the smell of diesel field. They don't really
20:49
Speaker 2: typically like that smell. At least that's what my African
20:52
Speaker 2: friends tell me. So I can go to sleep at night.
20:54
Speaker 2: That's what I'll be.
20:57
Speaker 1: Fine, man, Fine, Those are all great. Those are all
21:01
Speaker 1: great recommendations for sure. Now that we're getting into the
21:04
Speaker 1: topic of travel a little bit, let's talk about some
21:07
Speaker 1: of your favorite places on the planet and maybe share
21:10
Speaker 1: your more interesting stories. What's what's one Jim's top one
21:14
Speaker 1: or two most interesting stories of your travels.
21:16
Speaker 2: Wow, there's a lot. Yeah, So which one should go
21:20
Speaker 2: in the book? Which onehu you go in the book?
21:22
Speaker 2: There's a couple there, you know. I would say like
21:23
Speaker 2: the most One of the most inspiring trips I had
21:27
Speaker 2: was a trip to Namibia. And we went and did
21:30
Speaker 2: some volunteer work. And I worked with a friend of
21:32
Speaker 2: mine who's a medical professional, and we bring medicine for
21:35
Speaker 2: truckcoma for river blindness and out to the orphanages in
21:38
Speaker 2: the hospitals, and we also raise money for mosquito nets
21:41
Speaker 2: and we'll go there and we'll buy the nets in Africa,
21:43
Speaker 2: load them onto the land cruiser and take them to
21:45
Speaker 2: the orphanages and the hospitals. Shounded. That type of distribution
21:49
Speaker 2: system works really well, rather than trying to go to
21:51
Speaker 2: individual villages. Sure, so you'd give the most where you can.
21:55
Speaker 2: And so we went through Atosha and then across to
21:58
Speaker 2: the west through the who Need River Valley which you've
22:01
Speaker 2: been through, and Hama. My friend Hama he served in
22:04
Speaker 2: the South African Defense Forces, so he knows all these
22:07
Speaker 2: great camp sites that are nobody knows about and nobody
22:10
Speaker 2: will ever know because I'm never going to give him up.
22:13
Speaker 2: You're not geotagging that spot, no, sir, and so. And
22:16
Speaker 2: then we came down to the Skeleton Coast and then
22:18
Speaker 2: run down the Scots. Stunning. That's part of what I
22:21
Speaker 2: really love about traveling, you know, and living in eastern
22:24
Speaker 2: Montana is a lower population. The population in the world
22:27
Speaker 2: has grown a lot in our lifetimes, and so finding
22:30
Speaker 2: the least populated places where I tend to be able
22:33
Speaker 2: to see the stars and not have any security issues
22:36
Speaker 2: and things like that are more I would say, the
22:38
Speaker 2: more inspiring trips, you know, the elephants cruise riding along
22:41
Speaker 2: on the roof and elephants at arms distance. And in
22:44
Speaker 2: my friend and a cab going, he goes, what am
22:45
Speaker 2: I going to tell your wife when you get killed?
22:47
Speaker 2: I'm like, tell her I had a great time. And
22:50
Speaker 2: then probably like the craziest story, I guess, not the crazy,
22:53
Speaker 2: one of the more craziest stories. Early on in my
22:56
Speaker 2: probably the first time I went on a land rover
22:58
Speaker 2: trip with these guys. We had three land rover vehicles
23:01
Speaker 2: over a magazine shoot and I sunk the one into
23:04
Speaker 2: Dolores river. I remember that story, oh man, and that
23:07
Speaker 2: was ben Edmonson on the top right. He was on
23:10
Speaker 2: the rack kind of film it or something. Yeah, but
23:12
Speaker 2: I felt like such a heel, you know, just just
23:14
Speaker 2: because they said they scream stop and I hit the
23:16
Speaker 2: brakes and the vehicle sucked water and dive total of
23:19
Speaker 2: a brand new land Rover. My insurance company then took
23:22
Speaker 2: special notice of me dropped me after seventeen years. Oh wow,
23:25
Speaker 2: I paid out. But you know, that was kind of
23:27
Speaker 2: the more embarrassing things. But of course, you know, I've
23:30
Speaker 2: trapsed all over the Philippines and Guam and Korea and
23:34
Speaker 2: the markets. I used to really love to eat a
23:36
Speaker 2: lot of street food. I love to cook, and you
23:38
Speaker 2: know you've eaten a lot of my cooking on the trail. Yeah,
23:40
Speaker 2: great cook. And so that's one of the things I
23:42
Speaker 2: always tend to find myself in. I'm good to go
23:44
Speaker 2: ride along like some people want to, like, oh, I've
23:47
Speaker 2: got to take my vehicle and I can drive, okay.
23:49
Speaker 2: I mean, the guys taught me how to drive Serson
23:51
Speaker 2: enough and I don't have to have my vehicle sure.
23:54
Speaker 2: So that's why I say the best trips are the
23:55
Speaker 2: ones where I've got a duffel bag and that's it,
23:57
Speaker 2: and I just show up and perform. And I said,
24:00
Speaker 2: I love to cook in the field. It's one of
24:02
Speaker 2: you know, I love to cook anyway, but cooking in
24:03
Speaker 2: the fields always provides some challenge. The wind's going to blow,
24:06
Speaker 2: the rain sure to go. And so that's the aspects
24:09
Speaker 2: of a travel that I really like.
24:10
Speaker 1: That's interesting that you mentioned the cooking because we haven't
24:13
Speaker 1: really talked about that much on the podcast. But one
24:15
Speaker 1: of the things that I remembered from traveling with you
24:18
Speaker 1: is it is a way to bring a bunch of
24:20
Speaker 1: people that kind of know each other but don't know
24:22
Speaker 1: each other really well together. Is you give them a
24:25
Speaker 1: little bit of food, maybe a couple of cocktails, and
24:28
Speaker 1: it just people start to get around the fire and
24:30
Speaker 1: they get around this great meal, and it is a
24:33
Speaker 1: wonderful way to kind of set the stage for a trip.
24:36
Speaker 2: Yes, it's the logistics of having like over ten people
24:40
Speaker 2: on a Baja trip. When we were filming trying to
24:43
Speaker 2: film a pilot for a TV show. Sure, it was
24:45
Speaker 2: a lot of work, you know, and you're talking to
24:47
Speaker 2: meals like forty five meals a day, you know, and
24:50
Speaker 2: then you pick up, tear down, move again, and do
24:52
Speaker 2: it and you get to know people in their habits.
24:55
Speaker 2: And we had another former marine with us along, Taylor Congleton.
24:59
Speaker 2: He's a land road fanatic out of Vermont. And that
25:01
Speaker 2: guy's so big. I had to hide food for him
25:04
Speaker 2: because everybody would. He's a big guy. Yeah, you know,
25:07
Speaker 2: it's so you know, the metabolism. Sure, Ben Ben Edmonds
25:10
Speaker 2: is a big dude too, but so i'd have to, like,
25:12
Speaker 2: you know, I keep Ben from eating all of Tailor's food,
25:15
Speaker 2: you know, And so it's like so and then the
25:17
Speaker 2: other guys, you know, they're like like like Jordan and stuff.
25:20
Speaker 2: I would be like, he's one hundred and thirty five pounds.
25:21
Speaker 2: You get one serving, but you can't let him see
25:25
Speaker 2: you give the big guy an extra slice. No, no, no,
25:27
Speaker 2: And so that's funny. Yeah, it thoes the little things
25:30
Speaker 2: you learned about cooking and then what foods to buy
25:32
Speaker 2: that last, what to put in the fridge, what you know,
25:35
Speaker 2: can go into cool like a cool dry box. Sure,
25:38
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of stuff to figure out, and
25:41
Speaker 2: there's great tips and of course.
25:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of people they don't know that
25:44
Speaker 1: you can you don't have to refrigerate eggs. They'll keep
25:47
Speaker 1: for several weeks, so just put them in the cool
25:49
Speaker 1: dry box and and then you don't have to take
25:51
Speaker 1: up fridge space. And another thing too, is is if
25:54
Speaker 1: you get a twelve pack of whatever, just put the
25:57
Speaker 1: drinks that you need for the next couple of days
25:59
Speaker 1: and then feed into the fridge because the drinkston't need
26:01
Speaker 1: to be kept refrigerated.
26:02
Speaker 2: Most drinkstone.
26:03
Speaker 1: So those are those little tricks that allow you to
26:06
Speaker 1: go with a smaller fridge. I think that oftentimes people
26:08
Speaker 1: go with too big of a fridge. Like even sitting
26:10
Speaker 1: here in the Scout right now, it has space for
26:13
Speaker 1: an eighty or ninety leader, but I've only got a
26:15
Speaker 1: fifty five liter in here because I just feed into
26:17
Speaker 1: the fridge.
26:18
Speaker 2: Right, I tend to put the delicate things in there. Sure,
26:21
Speaker 2: the greens and stuff like that, Yeah, for sure, that
26:23
Speaker 2: need to be refrigerated. Some of the crew is like
26:24
Speaker 2: insisted at their beers, like, well, let's put the beer
26:26
Speaker 2: in the yettie, you know. But I'm like, I bought
26:28
Speaker 2: this fridge for my beer. I'm like, let's just put
26:30
Speaker 2: the beer in the yettie and be done.
26:31
Speaker 1: You know it totally works great in there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
26:35
Speaker 1: Talking about street food, what is some of your favorite
26:38
Speaker 1: places on the planet that you've had street food? Is
26:41
Speaker 1: there a memorable meal?
26:42
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Okay, let's talk about that. We were in Korea, okay,
26:45
Speaker 2: for Operation Team Spirit, and we were downtown one night,
26:49
Speaker 2: a bunch of us and they have these like little
26:51
Speaker 2: egg carts where they take the egg and it's a
26:53
Speaker 2: coal fired hot plate okay, and they lay cabbage an
26:56
Speaker 2: egg in there and some sort of meat Okay, let's
26:59
Speaker 2: just say it's meat, and they cooked on it in
27:02
Speaker 2: like a crepe and then they roll it up when
27:03
Speaker 2: they put some hot sauce and a kimchi on it.
27:05
Speaker 2: Oh my god. One night, three of us stood around
27:07
Speaker 2: this cart at like two o'clock in the morning. We
27:10
Speaker 2: ate everything that lady had. She must have had a
27:12
Speaker 2: flat of eggs and three jar heads, just like they
27:14
Speaker 2: just scarfed them. All. I love that. You made her day. Yeah, yeah,
27:18
Speaker 2: we clear cleared her out. Said, are over a three
27:19
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning with a bunch of money, and oh.
27:21
Speaker 1: That's so that's so great. We had a similar experience
27:24
Speaker 1: in Baja. We get to this little this little Takorea,
27:26
Speaker 1: and all they did was shrimp tacos. They were super specialized,
27:29
Speaker 1: and we cleaned them out. They had no more shrimp.
27:32
Speaker 1: Yeah that's gringos. We ate every taco that they had.
27:35
Speaker 2: I love it.
27:36
Speaker 1: That's so good they were, and they were wonderful little family.
27:38
Speaker 2: It was great. On a motorcycle trip through Costa Rica,
27:41
Speaker 2: we stopped in some little town down south of or
27:44
Speaker 2: north of plant Thereina, somewhere along the coast there, and
27:47
Speaker 2: sure we I'm like, I wasn't going any further. I
27:50
Speaker 2: haven't ridden a motorcycle in a while. And we had
27:52
Speaker 2: us on those little one twenty fives and I was
27:53
Speaker 2: just hurting. I'm like, the guys are terrible, well fifteen
27:56
Speaker 2: years younger than me. And they're like, oh, it's no problem,
27:58
Speaker 2: and I'm like, dude, I'm not going any further. There
28:00
Speaker 2: was five of us, and so we stayed there until
28:02
Speaker 2: we ate them out of food and they're like, we
28:04
Speaker 2: have no food. You guys need to leave. So we
28:09
Speaker 2: moved on down the coast down to Haco and after that.
28:12
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just those are the the you know,
28:14
Speaker 2: the street food is. I can consider myself a connoisseur
28:17
Speaker 2: of street food Okay and Guatemala in places like that
28:20
Speaker 2: chicken that they do where they cook it once and
28:22
Speaker 2: then they get it ready to cook when you order it,
28:24
Speaker 2: and they dice it again with a cleaver and then
28:26
Speaker 2: they infuse it with something. Oh my god. Yeah, it's
28:30
Speaker 2: like heaven on Earth. It's so good. I like to
28:32
Speaker 2: cook like that. I like to cook and cast iron.
28:34
Speaker 2: I'm a wild game, you know, I hunt, so I'm
28:37
Speaker 2: pretty good with wild game. Here in the fridge, I've
28:39
Speaker 2: got some bison I'm, you know, brought down from Anna
28:42
Speaker 2: and I've been cooking it for our camp mates and
28:44
Speaker 2: they're like, what is this.
28:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the best meat I've ever had was
28:48
Speaker 1: wild game. I mean I had bison prime rib one
28:51
Speaker 1: time that blew my mind, absolutely blew my mind. And
28:54
Speaker 1: then I had this elin steak in Where was I
28:58
Speaker 1: at at the elin steak? I think I was in
29:01
Speaker 1: I was in Namibia when I had the elin steak,
29:03
Speaker 1: and I've had it a few times, but that particular
29:06
Speaker 1: moment in time where all the stars aligned. I had
29:08
Speaker 1: had a great day in northern Namibia and I ended
29:11
Speaker 1: up at this little place and it was just unbelievable.
29:14
Speaker 1: I don't eat as much meat as I used to,
29:16
Speaker 1: but when I do, I try to find wild game
29:19
Speaker 1: because I always feel good after I eat it.
29:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if it's you R, you have
29:23
Speaker 2: the same experience, But like I don't sleep in Africa.
29:26
Speaker 2: The day begins like before the crack of dawn, and
29:29
Speaker 2: I go, go, go, and I just I don't know,
29:31
Speaker 2: it's something weird about that place. Is just I feel
29:33
Speaker 2: so charged up.
29:34
Speaker 1: And I wonder because I've felt the same thing. And
29:36
Speaker 1: there's a lot of the travelers that we know talk
29:39
Speaker 1: about how special Africa is to them, that they even
29:42
Speaker 1: feel like that they've come home. And I think, just
29:44
Speaker 1: think about the history of humanity. I mean, it all
29:47
Speaker 1: kind of started there, and so I think that genetically
29:50
Speaker 1: we kind of feel alive. We feel a little bit
29:53
Speaker 1: charged up in that place. I mean, way back in
29:55
Speaker 1: our hypothalamus. We know what a lion is. Like the
29:57
Speaker 1: first time I heard a lion roar, I knew exactly
29:59
Speaker 1: what that was. I didn't need to add, hey, what's
30:01
Speaker 1: that sound. I knew that was a lion. Yeah, Like
30:03
Speaker 1: I knew way down in my core that like that's
30:06
Speaker 1: something that wants to eat me right now, and that was,
30:08
Speaker 1: and that's fun.
30:09
Speaker 2: It's fun to feel like you move down the food chain, right,
30:11
Speaker 2: and then of course the snakes. And as I like
30:13
Speaker 2: to joke, you know, curiosity will kill you in Africa.
30:17
Speaker 2: That's so true. That's so true. Yeah, that's so true.
30:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, we forget the fact that we are we are
30:23
Speaker 1: very easy game in that continent. I mean, we are
30:26
Speaker 1: very easy to eat.
30:27
Speaker 2: And well there's no rescue, right's just self rescue, sure,
30:31
Speaker 2: unless you happen to be close to a city. But
30:33
Speaker 2: and even then, I don't know. South Africa, Scot's outstanding
30:36
Speaker 2: medical facilities if you can get to them.
30:38
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, there's that reminds me of a great book.
30:41
Speaker 1: It's called Death in the Tall Grass, and it's one
30:43
Speaker 1: it's one of the best books I've ever read about
30:46
Speaker 1: humans mostly surviving these encounters with wild animals.
30:49
Speaker 2: So I you know, for years I exhibited It's Fari
30:52
Speaker 2: Club internationals, right, and a lot of African friends and
30:54
Speaker 2: friends from all over the world, New Zealand and places,
30:56
Speaker 2: and every so often one of someone limping through the
30:59
Speaker 2: convention center and I be like, oh, a leopard got you.
31:01
Speaker 2: And and it takes months, sometimes years to heal after
31:04
Speaker 2: a ball because their claws are full of nasty.
31:08
Speaker 1: Nasty little and sure starts to make your make your
31:12
Speaker 1: flesh die.
31:14
Speaker 2: Terrible man.
31:15
Speaker 1: But but I love that even that feeling of you
31:17
Speaker 1: go to a little game lodge and you've got to
31:20
Speaker 1: you got to have your escort to get you back
31:22
Speaker 1: to your room. And at first I'm like, ah, it's
31:24
Speaker 1: just right over there, it's and then and they're like, well,
31:27
Speaker 1: you can't see all this stuff. There's there are leopards
31:29
Speaker 1: out here and they've had they've seen them, and so
31:31
Speaker 1: that's why you have the guy with the gun in
31:32
Speaker 1: the and the.
31:33
Speaker 2: Torch may The elephants can walk so silently it's insane
31:37
Speaker 2: between the buildings, and they'll tip her through the garden
31:39
Speaker 2: and and take vegetables. And yeah, it's just probably not recommended.
31:42
Speaker 2: But I was in Zimbabwe with some friends and the
31:45
Speaker 2: challenge comes and you know, we went swimming in Lake Careba,
31:47
Speaker 2: which is foolish, you know, filled with crocs, it is. Yeah,
31:50
Speaker 2: so but we're out in the middle. So they circled
31:52
Speaker 2: the boat. Okay, this is after promising, This is after
31:56
Speaker 2: promising not to do this, And I jumped into the
31:58
Speaker 2: middle of Lake Kariba on a hot it was one
32:00
Speaker 2: hundred degrees. You know, I jumped in and I got
32:01
Speaker 2: out pretty quick. But the rush, the rush that I got,
32:04
Speaker 2: oh my god, it was like the first time I
32:06
Speaker 2: jumped out an airplane. Sure, so of course I'm there,
32:09
Speaker 2: and we're at the lodge. We get it to the
32:10
Speaker 2: lodge at night and there's a hippo on the lawn
32:12
Speaker 2: and my friend looks over me and goes, you're not
32:14
Speaker 2: a real zimbo unless you can slap a hippo on
32:16
Speaker 2: the ass. And I don't know if people know this,
32:19
Speaker 2: but hippos are the biggest killers in Africa. A and
32:21
Speaker 2: and that was the second biggest rush I ever got.
32:24
Speaker 2: Were you successful? Oh, I slapped it on the booty man.
32:29
Speaker 1: That is the first time I have ever heard of
32:30
Speaker 1: somebody trying that. Yeah, well, I'm glad you're still sitting here. Yeah,
32:34
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you got to take some risks to
32:36
Speaker 1: have some fun. But it's not something that I you know,
32:38
Speaker 1: I don't seek death, but it's definitely I like being
32:42
Speaker 1: out there on the edge. And you know, we were,
32:44
Speaker 1: you know, I was joking with you about different things
32:46
Speaker 1: that I've thought of and through the years, and I
32:47
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to hear something that I wrote.
32:49
Speaker 2: Okay, I'd love to. Yeah, my ego died, but I'm
32:52
Speaker 2: still alive, walking the warriors path. It's where I thrive.
32:56
Speaker 2: Traveled to the edge, look death in the eye, turned
32:59
Speaker 2: before you look back, Much to my surprise, on a
33:02
Speaker 2: starry night, Leopard step by You're not the rapture the deep,
33:07
Speaker 2: chase your dreams until you sleep. So I wrote that
33:09
Speaker 2: about a year ago, at the start of the pandemic. Yeah,
33:11
Speaker 2: I was just sitting in an airport and I just
33:13
Speaker 2: for some reason, I felt like, well, ever go on
33:15
Speaker 2: another adventure. And I think this trip has been the
33:19
Speaker 2: first real trip I've taken since the pandemic. Yeah, so
33:22
Speaker 2: it's yeah.
33:23
Speaker 1: As travelers, this has been such a challenging time.
33:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, for people who thrive on going and doing, it's
33:31
Speaker 2: been a tough couple of years.
33:33
Speaker 1: And do you feel like, I mean to the to
33:34
Speaker 1: that poem you just read, do you feel like that
33:37
Speaker 1: you are looking back on your life in that way?
33:40
Speaker 1: I mean, what what comes next for Jim? Like, now
33:43
Speaker 1: that you've looked back and you've you've you've heard this
33:46
Speaker 1: the footsteps of the Leopard, and you're looking forward in
33:49
Speaker 1: your life. What what is it that you want to
33:50
Speaker 1: do next? What feels like it's next for you.
33:52
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure that out, you know, having you know,
33:55
Speaker 2: reached an age where my body doesn't take the abuse
33:58
Speaker 2: that it used to. I still like the snowboard, but
34:01
Speaker 2: I pay for it ibuprofen. And so I've been thinking
34:05
Speaker 2: long and hard on that. I have a sprinter van
34:07
Speaker 2: that was our old trade show vehicle, and I've been
34:09
Speaker 2: kind of monkeying around with converting it into you know,
34:11
Speaker 2: a van life thing that whatever. And I really think
34:14
Speaker 2: that exploring more of the Western United States. I know
34:17
Speaker 2: there's places I've never been to, and so I'm going
34:20
Speaker 2: to go seek out those less traveled places here for
34:23
Speaker 2: now sure. And then electric bike cycles have kind of
34:26
Speaker 2: caught my eye in a way that I never thought
34:28
Speaker 2: I would. I'm like, I used to be a Harley
34:30
Speaker 2: ride motorcycle, love and full and I'm like my friends
34:32
Speaker 2: would laugh at me from wanting to ride one of
34:34
Speaker 2: them electric bikes. But there's something serene and peaceful about this,
34:37
Speaker 2: you know, creeping through the woods, not disturbing the elk.
34:40
Speaker 2: And I've been kind of on the hunt for an
34:42
Speaker 2: electric bike, and there's a bunch of options. Oh my,
34:44
Speaker 2: just walking through the show, I was just blown away
34:47
Speaker 2: how fast it's advancing. And so that's kind of you know,
34:51
Speaker 2: where I want to go. And then you and I
34:52
Speaker 2: were talking earlier about sailing, and I have challenged myself
34:55
Speaker 2: to always face my fears and one of the things,
34:57
Speaker 2: you know, eat being a reconnaissance brain. I'm not afraid.
35:00
Speaker 2: The water, like the deep blue is still like the
35:03
Speaker 2: big ocean with the storm's kick up on a boat
35:05
Speaker 2: is kind of for me, is still kind of like wow,
35:07
Speaker 2: you know, it's all inspiring and humbling. For sure. I
35:10
Speaker 2: did a dive trip out the Cocos Island where we
35:12
Speaker 2: did the crossing, you know, forty hours in pretty heavy
35:14
Speaker 2: season deep you know deep diving night trucks once you
35:17
Speaker 2: get in with the sharks and stuff, and sure, and
35:19
Speaker 2: so yeah, that I missed the ocean. That's one thing
35:21
Speaker 2: I'll say. I never thought I would live in Montana
35:24
Speaker 2: as long as I have. I never thought i'd live
35:25
Speaker 2: away from the coast. So I do miss the ocean
35:28
Speaker 2: at times, and I would love to like maybe put
35:30
Speaker 2: that last fear to rest. Not that I'm totally afraid,
35:33
Speaker 2: but I'm respectful of the ocean, because I've seen its power.
35:36
Speaker 1: It's incredible. When Brian and I did that that crossing,
35:39
Speaker 1: we were a thousand miles from land at one point
35:42
Speaker 1: and we were becalmed. There was no wind, so we
35:45
Speaker 1: were just sitting there kind of bobbing in the sailboat,
35:47
Speaker 1: thousand miles from land. The closest land was Hawaii, and
35:50
Speaker 1: it was sixteen thousand feet of water below us good board,
35:53
Speaker 1: and we decided that we were going to jump in,
35:55
Speaker 1: and the first time, I don't think I really recognized
35:58
Speaker 1: what was happening so much because it was just the
36:00
Speaker 1: thrill of jumping in the water. The next time I
36:02
Speaker 1: jumped in, I dove in as deep as I could go,
36:05
Speaker 1: and I could see all of the columns of light
36:07
Speaker 1: coming down to this point of black below me, and
36:09
Speaker 1: the transition from the warm water on the surface to
36:12
Speaker 1: this very cold, very unforgiving, very foreign place for a
36:16
Speaker 1: human to be. Yeah, I got back to the surface
36:18
Speaker 1: pretty quick, and it was this recognition that yes, we're
36:21
Speaker 1: on this boat that's designed to go around the world,
36:23
Speaker 1: but we are very fragile creatures in that space. And
36:26
Speaker 1: so you're right, it is a fear for sure for
36:28
Speaker 1: many of us.
36:28
Speaker 2: Wait, when you dive a lot, you know, it's like
36:30
Speaker 2: you get nitrogen narcosis, and that is the rapture of
36:34
Speaker 2: the deep, and it's very tempting to swim off into
36:37
Speaker 2: the darkness. That's why I never dive alone. Interesting, I
36:39
Speaker 2: didn't know that. I've never done any diving. Like, yeah,
36:42
Speaker 2: their blood saturates with nitrogen and interest laughing guests, and
36:45
Speaker 2: you start to get a little lightheaded and gotcha, Yeah,
36:48
Speaker 2: you're in the moment too much. Yeah, and you can
36:50
Speaker 2: like follow the fish down.
36:51
Speaker 1: Wow. Oh that's fascinating. A couple questions that come to
36:55
Speaker 1: mind for me that I like to ask, is are
36:58
Speaker 1: there any significant books or maybe inspirational people in your
37:03
Speaker 1: life that have shared something with you, or a podcast
37:06
Speaker 1: that you've enjoyed listening to. What are what are some
37:08
Speaker 1: ways that you get inspired.
37:10
Speaker 2: I've read a lot of the classic literature and crazy
37:14
Speaker 2: enough when I was younger, a lot of a lot
37:15
Speaker 2: of Roberty Howard, he creator of the Conin series, was
37:19
Speaker 2: something I read a lot when I was in my teenage. Hears,
37:21
Speaker 2: you know, just great adventure style books. I just and
37:24
Speaker 2: I think he's a forgotten author. They people realize Edward
37:27
Speaker 2: Rice Burrows all those and then of course to Africa books.
37:31
Speaker 2: It's one of your favorite Africa books, The Sunbird. Okay,
37:35
Speaker 2: I can't remember the author's name, but it's a great book.
37:37
Speaker 2: It flashes back between future time and present time in
37:41
Speaker 2: ancient society. Oh wow, he's a famous author. And it'll
37:45
Speaker 2: come to me after we're done. We'll put it in
37:47
Speaker 2: the show now people people know it is for me
37:49
Speaker 2: theory books on manufacturing and process. I like nerd out
37:53
Speaker 2: on that and like and I love to see all
37:55
Speaker 2: the connections between how things work, and so it's one
37:58
Speaker 2: of the reasons why I love a manufacturers. It's like
38:03
Speaker 2: process improvement or the whole pursuit of optimization and perfection.
38:07
Speaker 2: But for me, I don't want to compromise quality, right,
38:10
Speaker 2: like the Toyota production system. That's why I'm kind of
38:12
Speaker 2: a Toyota and not.
38:13
Speaker 1: Sure guys in Lean Manufacturing TMS.
38:16
Speaker 2: Sure. So I love theories, and you know, whether I
38:19
Speaker 2: may not understand all of them, but I just love
38:22
Speaker 2: reading the books and trying to find a connection how
38:24
Speaker 2: I can apply that to real life.
38:26
Speaker 1: And I do see that with you you because TMS
38:29
Speaker 1: is so much about not only this emphasis on quality, durability,
38:33
Speaker 1: and reliability, which are the hallmarks of the Toyota brand.
38:36
Speaker 1: But it also is towards this minimalism and doing more
38:39
Speaker 1: with less and less waste.
38:41
Speaker 2: And I see that.
38:42
Speaker 1: I mean, you've talked about that in your manufacturing process
38:44
Speaker 1: and you've also shared that with me. About your life
38:46
Speaker 1: is that you travel very minimally and you don't bring
38:49
Speaker 1: a lot of redundancy and you try to not get
38:51
Speaker 1: distracted by a bunch of extra gear.
38:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's freeze you right as you know, if you're
38:56
Speaker 2: a younger traveler and you're just kind of starting out
38:58
Speaker 2: in the world, and you can get I've seen people
39:00
Speaker 2: get too wrapped up in the whole gear chase and
39:03
Speaker 2: they're planning and all this, and I get phone calls
39:05
Speaker 2: from people. Jim, you're the only person I know that
39:07
Speaker 2: can go in a week's notice. You want to go
39:08
Speaker 2: to Italy and blow glass? Absolutely, you know, passport's up
39:11
Speaker 2: to date. I'm out of here next thing you know,
39:13
Speaker 2: I'm in Morano sitting with the masters that who taught
39:15
Speaker 2: my teacher. Wow, And that's rare access. But you have
39:18
Speaker 2: to be able to say yes. And Africa for me
39:20
Speaker 2: opened up in much the same way. It was my
39:22
Speaker 2: cooking that got me invited into the inner circle of
39:25
Speaker 2: these trips and stuff, because the Safari lodges are always
39:29
Speaker 2: like labor or whatever. Not everybody wants to be in
39:31
Speaker 2: the Safari lodge and they want to get out to
39:33
Speaker 2: the outlying camps. And so my friend Ham was like,
39:35
Speaker 2: you can stay, and I'm like, really, yes. I called
39:38
Speaker 2: home on the satellite phone. Hey, they want me to stay?
39:40
Speaker 2: How long? Three weeks? Okay? And again that's you know,
39:45
Speaker 2: you go through a toosha, you know, and we would
39:48
Speaker 2: camp in places we're not supposed to, like it's champing wild.
39:50
Speaker 2: That's why the leopards stepped by, you know. And there
39:53
Speaker 2: was a dead and paula camp and he went in
39:56
Speaker 2: that night and got it back, you know. And I
39:58
Speaker 2: laid awake at night thinking me might come bite me
39:59
Speaker 2: on the a skull, but you know, eventually I fell asleep.
40:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, so be it. You know, what an amazing life
40:05
Speaker 1: you've lived, man? And how can how can people find.
40:08
Speaker 2: More about you and about red Ox. I'm pretty much
40:12
Speaker 2: an open book. You can go to redox dot com,
40:14
Speaker 2: ri d oxx, and I've blogged some of my stories
40:17
Speaker 2: to dive stories. The safaris. You've got some great resources
40:20
Speaker 2: on there and I like to be you know, share
40:22
Speaker 2: what I know and or give me a call. You know,
40:24
Speaker 2: we can talk and give you some good tips on
40:27
Speaker 2: what the pack and what door to go. And I've
40:29
Speaker 2: got great friends here and there and you can hook
40:31
Speaker 2: up with them on the trail and for sure them
40:33
Speaker 2: and say hello and have a couple of coffee.
40:35
Speaker 1: Well, thank you Jim, as always, it's been a pleasure
40:38
Speaker 1: to know you for the decades that I have. It's
40:40
Speaker 1: been so impressive to watch you build your business in
40:43
Speaker 1: such a sustainable way, employing Americans, American manufacturing high quality equipment.
40:49
Speaker 1: That's certainly something for all of us aspire towards. And
40:52
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast, Mate Scott,
40:54
Speaker 1: you guys have done an amazing job with everything at Overlin. Oh,
40:57
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Away as we're grateful, We thank you,
41:00
Speaker 1: thank you all for listening, and we will talk to
41:01
Speaker 1: you next time.