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Building Inclusive Communities: David Dubinsky's Leadership at Pomeroy Center · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Codispodi,
0:17
and today's guest is David Dubinsky.
0:18
He is the CEO of the Pomeroy Recreation and Rehabilitation
0:23
Center in San Francisco, a nonprofit that provides
0:27
essential support for children, teens and adults with
0:30
developmental disabilities and brain injuries.
0:33
Their mission is to help individuals thrive by offering
0:36
recreational, educational and vocational programs, including
0:40
access to one of the area's only therapeutic poles.
0:45
Under David's leadership, the organization continues its story
0:48
legacy, ensuring vital services are available to the community.
0:53
He has a history of guiding teams towards growth while
0:56
fostering a caring environment. Among his achievements, David is
0:59
a graduate of Leadership Contra County and is recognized for
1:03
speaking at various engagements on topics related to
1:06
developmental disabilities and rehabilitation.
1:09
Before becoming CEO, he spearheaded strategic projects
1:13
in other non profit roles, focusing on advocacy, inclusion
1:17
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1:20
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abbagbenefits.com. Now back to our guest today, the
2:00
CEO of Pomeroy Recreation and Rehabilitation Center, David
2:03
Dubinsky. Thanks for making the time to
2:05
Share your story today. Glad to be here, Anthony.
2:09
So David, before I get into some of your work history, I
2:13
understand that while you were studying at Clemson, you had an
2:16
unusual opportunity to study under the head of the London
2:21
School of Economics while you were there.
2:23
Can you tell me about that experience and how it's kind of
2:26
shaped your approach to leadership?
2:29
Yeah, it was very interesting. I when I graduated from Clemson
2:34
with an undergraduate degree, I was not really in economics at
2:38
all. And I had met a professor during
2:42
my undergraduate studies who I ran into after graduating and he
2:46
and he asked me if I was interested in the graduate
2:50
program and I said yes. For economics.
2:53
I, I thought it was, you know, kind of an interesting subject,
2:56
though I didn't take a lot as an undergrad.
2:58
And he told me it was going to be a very interesting program
3:01
because Wilfred Beckerman, who was at that time the hair, the
3:06
chair of the London School of Economics, very prestigious
3:10
school, is going to be my professor and I would be
3:14
assigned to him during my 2 year stint as a graduate student.
3:19
So I looked him up and thought, well, what a unique opportunity
3:22
to have somebody so learn it and and so well known in that field
3:28
coming to Clemson University. So Wilfred Beckerman had a style
3:37
of teaching that he described as very common at the London School
3:41
and throughout that that particular college where the
3:46
students would come to his class, he did not allow us to
3:49
bring in pens and papers or recorders at the time.
3:53
This is a little bit before you'd have a cell phone or or a
3:57
laptop with you and, and all we could do is listen to his
4:02
presentation. There were nine of us in the
4:05
class, and what that led to were these nine students walking out
4:13
of an hour and a half lecture, frozen at what it is we were
4:18
supposed to have learned that day.
4:20
Well, at least there was some sort of a dialogue in class
4:22
though, right? Yeah, there was a dialogue, but
4:25
often times, you know, he would lead the dialogue and expect us
4:29
to learn. He'd ask some questions during
4:31
the during the class, but what it really led to was all of us
4:36
getting together after class at one point or another and sharing
4:42
with each other what we what we thought we learned.
4:47
What was interesting about that is I learned as much or more
4:52
from my Co students as I did from Wilfred Deckerman.
4:58
And at the end, that was exactly his point.
5:03
That was exactly what he was trying to teach us to do.
5:06
We didn't know that at the time, but he wanted us.
5:10
He said, you know, you all are are in this in this graduate
5:14
class. Some of you are going to go on
5:15
and get a PhD. Some of you are going to go into
5:18
management. Some of you are going to be
5:20
teaching other students. But you need to know that you've
5:23
got to continue to learn and you can learn from everyone around
5:27
you. You can learn from your
5:29
students, you can learn from your Co workers, you can learn
5:32
from other managers. And I think that set the tone
5:36
for me to be collaborative in my management style.
5:42
It still continues today. I think of everybody I meet as a
5:47
potential teacher and and I want to learn from them what they
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have to offer. And, and I think that that, you
5:55
know, other good leaders, other good managers also know they
6:00
learn to surround themselves with people to tell them what
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they need to hear and not necessarily what they want to
6:08
hear. And, and, and that is a, a, a
6:12
very, to me, a very strong leadership skill, something I
6:15
pass on to people I've worked with over my career, you know,
6:20
to always make sure that when you look at people, you think of
6:24
them as somebody that has a lot to offer to you as much as you
6:27
have something to offer to them. I like that.
6:31
So you were learning some pretty heady things from this, you
6:34
know, professor from the London School of Economics.
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And, you know, then you get together with your peers and
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you're like, what do you think that meant?
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And rather than assuming that you had all the answers because
6:44
this is new stuff you're trying to wrap your head around, you're
6:47
all learning from each other. And that has opened you up to
6:51
the style of leadership and management that you still use
6:54
today. Assume that everybody that you
6:56
walk into a room with has something to teach you, right?
6:59
Absolutely everybody has value. Everybody has an idea and the,
7:03
and, and the concept of kind of the old autocratic style of
7:08
leadership. Well, I'm the leader, so I know
7:10
best. Is it, is it really valid in my
7:14
world? I, I think you have to look at
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everybody, whether they're brand new, you know, I, I work with
7:19
150 employees here, Pomeroy. And some are just out of
7:24
college, they're 2223 and some are 70.
7:29
But it, it's not about their age or gender or anything else.
7:32
It's, it's, it's about listening to what experience they have to
7:36
date. And it's amazing what ideas
7:41
people have, as long as they feel comfortable and safe and
7:45
sharing them, you can learn from from every single person.
7:50
So prior to Pomeroy, you spent 32 years at Source America,
7:55
which is a leading job creator for people with disabilities.
7:59
Spending one decade, let alone three, with the same
8:02
organization is pretty unusual in today's world.
8:05
Can you tell us about the work that you were doing there and
8:08
why it was so meaningful to keep you engaged for so long?
8:12
Yeah. You know it's interesting
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because that would that your your comment about working with
8:18
one company that long probably doesn't happen much today as as
8:22
it used to. But when I when I joined that
8:26
organization, it was very new. It really started in 1976.
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I came aboard 1981. So it was a fledgling nonprofit
8:38
with an office in a suburb of Washington, DC, Bethesda, MD.
8:43
There were like 17 people we were scratching to get by.
8:49
You know, the CEO at the time was a retired three star, a
8:53
general from the Army, Ivy Ivy Johansson.
8:57
And you know, he he really believed in the mission.
9:02
The mission was to use the federal procurement system to
9:06
find contracts that we could then place with community based
9:11
nonprofits all over the United States.
9:14
And then those nonprofits could employ adults with disabilities
9:17
to do the work. And, you know, the, the world
9:23
was changing at that time, so the government was looking to
9:27
contract out things that they had traditionally done in house
9:31
for many, many years. So there was tremendous
9:34
opportunity. We got into a tremendous growth
9:38
pattern. I think when I started working
9:40
there, we had a few 100, you know, a few thousand employees
9:45
working maybe 2000 across the country.
9:49
When I left there was almost 50,000.
9:52
It was in this, you know, big, huge growth when I was pretty
9:57
young. I, I, you know, I, I, I changed
10:00
jobs frequently there because we were in such a growth mode and,
10:06
and I was doing good work for the organization.
10:10
So I think what happens when you're in an organization like
10:14
that and you, you're being given more and more responsibility and
10:20
changing jobs. It's not like working for the
10:23
same organization. You know, suddenly you're doing
10:27
things that are very different than what you did before.
10:30
It's almost like working for, for a new company.
10:34
And then about halfway through that period of time.
10:38
And again, this is this is old fashioned.
10:40
Now, Anthony, this probably doesn't happen much today, but I
10:44
I'll never forget Ivy Johansson walking by my cubicle and
10:49
Bethesda and asking me if I liked California.
10:54
And I said, well, you know, I, I've been there a few times with
10:58
work. I, you know, yeah, I kind of
11:00
like it. He goes, good.
11:02
I need you to start there a week for Monday.
11:04
I'm opening up the new office in California, right.
11:06
So pack your bags. And that's your new your new
11:09
home. So, you know, off I went at the
11:14
time I had a wife and four kids at home, but off I went to
11:17
California late, you know, bring them later kind of thing.
11:22
But it was good for me. I had to build an office from
11:26
ground up. I had to hire staff.
11:28
I had to, you know, get our mission, our name, well known on
11:33
the West Coast at that time. It wasn't and it was an exciting
11:39
time and and I got to tell you the 1st 10 years of of that job
11:44
were like the very first ten years of working at Source
11:47
America all over again. So what do you think they saw?
11:51
In you to to have you send you to the other side of the country
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to open up this new office. Well, I really believe it goes
12:01
really back to those Graduate School days where I could go
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talk to people that I didn't know.
12:09
We were working with a lot of civilian federal agencies, the
12:15
General Services Administration, It was an example, a lot of DoD
12:20
agencies, Department of Defense. I would go and meet with people
12:24
that were in procurement and talk about our program and how
12:27
we wanted people with disabilities to do some of the
12:31
jobs they had available. And I was very comfortable doing
12:35
that. And, and, and I think very
12:37
passionate about what I was doing and very successful then
12:42
because people tended to trust what I was telling them that we
12:46
would be able to do this job and, and people with
12:49
disabilities could do the job. And people were interested in
12:52
that. They didn't always believe it,
12:55
but they were interested in it. And as one success led to
13:00
another. And you know, when I went there,
13:04
you know, we had a few contracts in California and one in
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Arizona. When I left there, we had
13:09
contracts in Guam, Saipan, Hawaii, American Samoa,
13:14
California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, you know, everywhere that
13:18
I serve. And, and the organization became
13:23
very well known and, and it's in its sphere and, and it's still
13:28
pretty well known today. And so you're employing, are
13:32
they all U.S. citizens and all these different territories or
13:37
not necessarily you're just finding local people that.
13:40
Yeah, and they're all U.S. citizens, all the territories.
13:44
Not everyone knows that. You know, for example, Saipan's
13:50
part of what's called the Commonwealth of the Northern
13:52
Marianas Islands. That's AUS territory, just like
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Puerto Rico. Guam is AUS territory.
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American Samoa is AUS territory. And then of course, California
14:02
was a big state in in the program.
14:05
And I used to laugh at people because when I grew up on, you
14:10
know, in the East Coast, on the East Coast, people used to think
14:15
about this mountain. And I think it was like Mount
14:18
Hamilton or Washington, somewhere in Vermont where the
14:21
sun would rise first, where people would see the sun in the
14:24
United States, Right. And they had their logo about
14:28
the sun always rises in the US here first.
14:30
Well, actually it was in Guam because Guam was on the other
14:34
side of the International dateline of full US territory.
14:37
It was always the day before. And so I used to say, well, you
14:41
know, I work in a place where the the sun in the US rises and
14:45
then being in California where the US or Hawaii where it sets
14:51
at the at the end of the day too.
14:52
So it was an interesting part of my life working for Source
14:58
America in that part of our country and serving a lot of
15:03
different people in a lot of very diverse areas.
15:07
And I loved it. I got to, after that 32nd year,
15:13
I finally got to a point where I needed a change and, and that
15:18
led me to the Palmeri Center. But I I have nothing but fond
15:24
memories of of all of that work and the people that I met and
15:27
worked with all those years. And so as you're going into one
15:31
of these US territories, call it Guam, how are you finding the
15:36
local residents that can do the work that you need to do?
15:42
Well, Guam is a good example. I actually made an appointment
15:45
with the governor and the United States Congress representative
15:49
and let him know that I was coming there and I wanted to try
15:52
to bring work to Guam. Now, Guam, I did know, had a
15:56
Navy base at one end of the island and an Air Force Base at
16:00
the other end. And so there were federal
16:03
contracts available and there were probably local companies
16:07
doing those contracts, but none of them were probably employing
16:12
adults with disabilities. And I knew there were
16:15
rehabilitation agencies. You do your homework, you know,
16:19
learn a little bit about the community, make some phone calls
16:23
and then basically fly there and sit down with people and talk
16:27
about your vision. What what did you think it could
16:31
look like? And when I first went to Guam,
16:35
you know, and I looked at these big military bases and some of
16:38
the civilian sites on the island, I said, you know, I
16:40
think one day we could have one or 2000 people with disabilities
16:45
who are at home here in big Guam, you know, without any
16:49
means to earn money working on these federal sites, bringing
16:54
money to their family, allowing their family members to go to
16:58
work themselves. It would really help the
16:59
economy, a local economy. And in fact, it we did all those
17:05
things. So, you know, was that was just
17:10
part of of the job was to have people see your vision.
17:19
Not always easy to do really. You know, you're talking about
17:23
your vision. They have to see it.
17:25
They have to believe it can happen and then you have to
17:29
really make good on it. And sometimes, you know, we
17:32
would start out on in a small way and then allow it to to
17:36
build and, and I think it's, that's how you grow most
17:41
businesses. So what was the biggest thing
17:43
you learned about yourself while it's Source America?
17:52
Well, number one, that no matter what, you should always be
17:58
honest with people. I had the, I always felt like I
18:04
was honest, but I was also beyond honesty, very transparent
18:11
and people would always talk to me about that.
18:14
You know, Dave, you just seen, you know, you come in here and
18:17
you talk not only about your strengths, but the weaknesses.
18:21
You talk about what we could do, but you also talk about the risk
18:25
of doing it. And you know, you're not like a
18:29
lot of sales people I know that only really emphasize, you know,
18:32
the positive. And I, I, I said, well, I think
18:36
the main thing is I, I never really wanted to oversell.
18:39
I wanted to make sure that people understood what I could
18:43
tell them about the risks of working with me, as well as the
18:49
joy and the value of it. And that I, I was a firm
18:52
believer that the value would always exceed the risk, but
18:56
there were always risks. And I really believe people
18:59
appreciated that. And I still today feel, I mean,
19:05
I always felt like that helped me as an orc, as a person trying
19:11
to sell what it was I was selling, you know, which was
19:15
really a vision and, and, and a new way of looking at, at our,
19:20
at our society. But also what what it told me
19:25
about me is that I wasn't afraid to tell people the truth, the
19:30
whole story. What?
19:32
You wanted people to make decisions based on complete
19:35
information. Exactly.
19:38
No, and not a sensible. Way to go but.
19:41
But give them everything that I know.
19:44
So how did the opportunity to join Pomeroy come about?
19:50
Well, you know, working my old job with Source America was a
19:53
lot of days and nights travelling and after moving to
19:57
California in in 1994, I had travelled over 1,000,000 miles
20:05
with United and and I was close to that with Delta and other
20:09
airlines and away from home a lot.
20:12
And to be honest with you, one day I just woke up and I said I
20:16
need to do something. In my own community that that
20:24
mirrors what I've been doing in other communities, but I want to
20:29
really do it hands on in, in my own community.
20:33
And I made that I, it was shocking, I think to the
20:38
executive leadership at Source America and my peers that I
20:41
would leave after all these years.
20:43
There's all these perks you get and if you get the 35 years, you
20:47
have all these perks. I was at 32 and I, I, I decided
20:52
to walk away and look for something in my community.
20:58
And it just so happens I had worked with the Palmeri Center.
21:02
I knew the Palmeri Center and I was walking down Market Street
21:06
in San Francisco and I met a guy that I know, I hadn't seen him
21:11
in a few years and he asked me what I was doing.
21:14
I told him, right now I'm doing some consulting work.
21:16
I'm looking for a full time position with a nonprofit,
21:21
hopefully in the city or in the San Francisco Bay Area.
21:24
And he goes, oh, I have a friend who's recruiting right now.
21:27
And he gave me his number and I, I called him.
21:30
We had lunch the next day and two days later he introduced me
21:35
to the board at the Pomeroy Center and I met with them and a
21:41
short while after that they offered me the position and I
21:44
was ecstatic because it was exactly what I wanted to do.
21:50
And I and the program was really interesting.
21:53
The program had been going downhill.
21:56
I knew it was going downhill. I mean, everybody did it.
22:01
It was, you know, something that a lot of people felt it the
22:06
program might not survive because so many programs like
22:11
this one that serve very severe disability, very expensive to
22:16
do. You don't get a lot of money and
22:18
support to do the work that we do.
22:23
And but I saw that as a challenge because I had seen,
22:28
the other thing I had seen were programs that we're able to turn
22:32
around. And one of the big advantages of
22:36
my prior job was Source America working with, you know, over 400
22:41
nonprofits across the United States is that you've seen it
22:44
all. You've seen programs go
22:45
bankrupt, You've seen programs grow.
22:49
But but what you saw, you know, you you could pick out
22:53
characteristics of what were leading both to their
22:58
conclusion, whether they succeeded or didn't succeed.
23:01
What were those commonalities? It was mainly belief.
23:08
It was belief in the mission enough that you could convince
23:13
others that your mission was valuable.
23:15
And if you had that and, and your staff had it and your board
23:20
had it, you most likely we're not going to fail it.
23:25
It was it was a belief that that the community is abundant in
23:32
resources, not starving, that that the services that you
23:37
provide add value, that people see that value and they want to
23:42
support it. And, you know, one of the things
23:46
that was happening here is it was contracting.
23:51
You know, there was talk when I interviewed with the board about
23:55
closing the pool and I had taken a tour and I'm looking at that
23:58
pool and it was dirty. It needed renovation.
24:01
And but I was like, Oh my gosh, no, no, you don't want to close
24:08
one of the things that brings the community into the center.
24:12
In fact, you want to expand it. You want to clean it up.
24:15
You want to make it beautiful. You want, you want the community
24:19
to come in because that's a door for them to see other things
24:24
that are going on and, you know, at the center.
24:27
And just to give you an example, I think the year I started here
24:31
nine years ago, the pool had like $180,000 in revenue that we
24:37
charge a, you know, a fee for some of our customers to come in
24:42
and use the therapeutic pool or to get swimming lessons for
24:45
their babies and young kids. This last year we had over
24:49
$1,000,000 in revenue at the pool.
24:53
And that's because you expanded it and the upgrades you made and
24:55
what probably the, I don't know, the business development or the
24:58
advertising you did to get more people in.
25:01
All, all of those things and, and just the, and, you know, it
25:05
was really interesting. I started swimming at the pool
25:08
and then the next thing you know, I'm talking about I love
25:13
the pool and and, and I do love do love the pool.
25:15
I was like, you know, it's a it's amazing.
25:18
You know how well you out it makes your body feel and.
25:21
What's so special about the pool, David?
25:24
Well, it's a it's a warm water pool, so we keep the pool about
25:30
92°. It's a salt based pool.
25:33
It's the only one in in San Francisco like like that.
25:37
So we. Meaning no chlorine.
25:39
No, Yeah, the salt actually makes its own chlorine in in a
25:43
chemical way, but but it but it's not chlorine you're dumping
25:46
in with a gallon jug in the pool that you know eats at your skin
25:50
and turns your hair green and all that stuff.
25:55
But the other part of it is, is that salt water is a little bit
26:00
more buoyant. So it makes it easy for people
26:02
who are not very comfortable in the pool to feel comfortable.
26:06
A lot of our customers are seniors.
26:08
Many of them have recently had it operation, maybe a knee
26:12
replaced, maybe a hip, maybe they have bad arthritis.
26:17
So when they come to the pool and they walk in and the water's
26:20
comforting and they, we give them these Styrofoam weights.
26:25
You know, you Styrofoam weight, you can hold that it might weigh
26:29
8 oz outside the pool, push it down under the water or you wrap
26:33
it around your ankle. It feels like 10 lbs, right?
26:36
And so you start walking, you start exercising in the pool and
26:43
pretty soon your physical ailments can be completely
26:48
healed or at least mitigated to some some extent.
26:54
And for many people, and they say this all the time, they come
26:57
to the pool and it's they're only paying free hour or two
27:00
hour period of their day. So they love it.
27:04
The other thing you put 60 seniors that that's kind of our
27:08
capacity of the pool anyone time and they're all taking an
27:12
exercise class together. They all get to know each other.
27:17
Now, they all may live in San Francisco, but a lot of them
27:19
don't know each other well. Soon they know each other.
27:22
They're playing bridge together. They're doing other things.
27:25
They have a community outside of outside of Pomeroy that maybe
27:31
many of them didn't have before they started coming here.
27:35
And that's, it's a beautiful thing because a lot of seniors
27:41
as they age also become very lonely.
27:44
You know, they lose a spouse, they lose friends, they moved
27:49
to, you know, maybe move out of their house into a condo or
27:53
something or senior living center and it's just another
27:58
Ave. for them to be in a light community.
28:02
And there's a lot to be said about being in a community of
28:06
your peers. So outside of the pool and the
28:10
seniors that you just explained are using the facilities there,
28:15
get into more detail about what it is Pomeroy does, who you
28:19
serve and how you help them. Well, our main customer base or,
28:24
or we call them participants is our adults, people that are over
28:29
the age of 20, they come here, they all have developmental
28:33
disabilities or, or significant brain injuries.
28:37
We run a couple residential homes in the city for people to
28:41
live in. I'm trying to expand that now
28:44
with a third home, hopefully this next year.
28:48
Ideally I'd like to get to 5:00. We, we usually try to make, get
28:53
homes that can house, you know, five to six adults and we put
28:57
staff in those homes and don't charge them any rent.
29:01
So they live rent free in the city, but they're working.
29:04
And then and then during the day, we have adults come here
29:09
and some go out and do some productive work in the
29:12
community. Others come here and they just
29:15
socialize here. There are many of them are not
29:18
verbal. About half of them aren't
29:20
verbal, Another probably half of that half.
29:24
But we have to care for their personal needs all day.
29:27
Help help them bathe, help them, you know, help them to eat all
29:34
of those things. But we bring them in here to
29:36
give them a community. Some we load in bands and we do
29:42
other things in the community. I mean, there are a lot of
29:44
things that can be done by people that don't always involve
29:48
work. You know, when I was with
29:49
Source, America was all about getting people into the work
29:52
working world. But we load up bands every day
29:55
now and we have a partnership with the San Francisco Marin
29:59
County Food Bank. We go deliver groceries to
30:02
people all over the city. We do odd jobs for people.
30:09
So by by having even people volunteer on a two or three days
30:15
a week, they get in a van and they go deliver groceries, they
30:17
feel very valuable. And the people they deliver the
30:21
groceries to, they don't know that we're not paying them.
30:25
I mean, they, they think, Oh my gosh, it's so glad to see you.
30:28
Thanks for the groceries. You know, we run a food pantry
30:32
here every Thursday. So we have a lot of opportunity
30:36
for people to get involved in the community in one way or
30:38
another and then also be involved with each other here.
30:44
So they're not at home all day just doing nothing.
30:47
They're here. We run this program like a
30:50
Community College. We have college level classes
30:54
here in art and drama. We we do collective, we do
30:59
learning activities here where people learn other languages or
31:04
they work on, on arts or, or projects.
31:08
They, they learn skills about money management.
31:14
They, we have book readings where people learn about books,
31:18
you know, contemporary literature.
31:22
So it's, it's a just a place where people can come and feel
31:28
valued, feel more educated every day they're here.
31:34
Share their stories with each other, share them with the
31:38
people that work here, the staff that works here.
31:42
And so it's a community. We also run an after school
31:46
program it there's only two that are like this throughout the
31:49
entire state of California, but we we take in in the public
31:56
schools, all kids go to school right now, not just in
32:03
California, but across the the country.
32:06
So depending, even if you're very severely disabled, you go
32:10
and you're in a special Ed class, whatever in your public
32:13
school. And the many public schools here
32:16
in the city, in San Francisco, they have after school programs
32:20
for kids with special needs. But some of the kids have needs
32:24
that are a little bit outside of the capability of the school,
32:28
individual school or paraprofessionals at that school
32:32
to serve them. So they send those kids here.
32:36
So we at the end, at the end of the school day here, right,
32:39
right around 2:30, which is about the time our adults start
32:42
matriculating out of here, the kids are arriving and now the
32:46
energy level really goes up around 2:33 O clock.
32:50
And so we get these kids and you have to imagine sometimes
32:57
there'll be 4 kids coming from one school and the teachers will
33:00
say, gosh, you know, we, we can't even handle those four
33:05
kids. And then they're coming to
33:07
Pomeroy along with four kids from that school and three kids
33:10
from that school and two kids from that school.
33:12
And you handle all of them. And the amazing thing that
33:15
happens though, when they get here, they're no longer in
33:18
special Ed, they're no longer segregated from another.
33:23
They're all here together. Now.
33:24
We segregate them somewhat by age group, but they're they're
33:27
here with their peers. They feel more comfortable.
33:32
Yeah, feel very comfortable. We continue the learning.
33:36
If you walk into our classroom, if you walk into a classroom of
33:39
3rd or 4th graders or 7th or 8th graders or high school, you walk
33:43
into the classroom here on our campus, it's going to look just
33:46
like a age appropriate classroom.
33:49
There's going to be posters on the wall.
33:50
There's going to be things that the teachers hang up.
33:54
Look, that all looks familiar to them and we're teaching the same
33:59
things, but we're doing it collectively with them and, and
34:03
their stress level goes down. Now there's behaviors here, of
34:07
course, and there's behaviors I could put 80 kids anywhere.
34:11
It's going to be some behavior, right?
34:14
But our, our teachers are very special.
34:21
They, they don't think of these kids as, you know, the special
34:26
Ed kids, they, they're, they're students and they have classes
34:29
and, and they, they do a wonderful job with them.
34:35
And many of the schools that we serve love this program because
34:41
of that, because they see the change that occurs with these
34:46
kids. And our goal as they become 1819
34:50
is not to move them into our adult program.
34:52
It's to move them into the community and have them go live
34:57
a normal life. So, David, I'm hearing this long
35:01
list of things that you and your staff are teaching, the
35:06
students, the adults, the participants.
35:09
What did they teach you? To be humble, to appreciate
35:19
every day that I'm vertical, you know, still, and not let the
35:26
small things bother me, doesn't mean I'm always successful with
35:31
that. But when you walk here, when you
35:38
walk in here, we all have problems.
35:42
You know, we're human beings. We all have some struggle.
35:46
You know, your car's broken, you're not an argument at home,
35:50
whatever. But you walk in here and those
35:54
things disappear because you're surrounded by people who don't
36:01
have much in life but are extremely satisfied with what
36:08
they have. And that's the lesson we all
36:13
could learn, You know, we the, the idea that we need more, more
36:19
things, more, you know, more clothes, more cars, bigger
36:24
house, whatever. And when you're surrounded by
36:27
people that don't have any of those things in their life, but
36:30
they're happy, they're laughing, they're enjoying each other,
36:33
they find joy in life. They find joy in the lunch they
36:37
get. They find joy, you know, in the
36:40
hour they're in the pool. Whatever it is, you see, it just
36:45
changes you and it learns it. It teaches you a very important
36:51
lesson about life. You know, life is fragile.
36:55
One thing we do see here working with a lot of fragile adults is
36:59
death. I mean, we see 79 of our
37:02
participants pass every year, just like any healthcare kind of
37:08
oriented facility. But but at the same time, we
37:13
tend to sell it. We we mourn people, but we
37:15
celebrate them at the same time. And I think that that helps all
37:19
of us as individuals. We also learn at one of the
37:23
things that that I've learned is that there's value in everybody.
37:28
I mean, there's one woman that comes in here.
37:30
She's not mobile, she's in a wheel, she's not verbal.
37:35
She has the most amazing smile I've ever seen.
37:39
She's smiling all the time, and it just brings you joy.
37:46
And her ability to bring joy to others exceeds most people I've
37:52
ever met. And yet, you know, some people
37:56
would wonder how, what does she do?
37:59
How does she add value? Well, stand around there for a
38:04
few minutes and, and you'll see what, what I see, you know,
38:08
that, that just that joy of being alive, of being a person,
38:12
being with other people, It's, it's, it's humbling.
38:16
I like that it's kind of a reminder to go back and do
38:20
appreciate the the basic things, being alive, being together,
38:26
being around other people, a nice day, good weather, having a
38:30
meal. Yeah, I think that's a powerful
38:33
reminder for myself and probably everybody who's listening.
38:37
Yeah, I agree. Where does the?
38:40
Funding for all of this come from David.
38:43
Well, a number of of funding sources.
38:45
So in California there is a act that was passed many years ago
38:50
called Philantrum enacted it allows, it causes the state to
38:55
have to provide some level of financial support for adults
38:59
with developmental disability. So the state gives us some money
39:03
for the services we provide roughly, you know, it's just, if
39:08
I had to put it hourly rate on, it's like $12.00 an hour for the
39:13
people while they're here. That helps offset some of our
39:17
staff cost. We, I try not to pay anybody
39:20
here less than $25.00 an hour because a very expensive place
39:25
to live. We, for the school program, we,
39:31
we get money used to come right from California's Department of
39:34
Education. Now it's moved to the California
39:37
Department of Social Services, but they pay us per student per
39:43
day. Some money doesn't cover
39:46
everything. The pool, we charge an entrance
39:50
fee of $10 a day or a little less than that if if you buy
39:55
like a monthly pass or an annual pass to come in and swim for an
40:00
hour. We do infant, we call them water
40:03
safety classes, but they're really infant swimming lessons.
40:07
We started six months. We have a long waiting list from
40:10
parents to get there. Their babies in here and their
40:13
young kids in here to have swim lessons.
40:17
And we charge a market rate. We survey with the YMCA and
40:21
other competitors charge for swim lessons and we make some
40:26
money at the pool. We actually make a little bit of
40:30
a profit there. We do some work in the community
40:35
and we kind of break even there. And then we do fund development,
40:38
which most nonprofits do where we have, you know, an annual
40:43
gala and we, we have bingo 3 or 4 times on a Friday night.
40:48
And, and we put, we have a very active social media presence
40:54
where we advertise if we need some money to renovate a
40:59
classroom or something, we let the community.
41:01
Now we have this amazing relationship with our community.
41:08
And I, I, I have to say that we're extremely lucky if there's
41:15
some challenges to running a program like this in San
41:18
Francisco in a high, a very expensive area of our country.
41:25
But the the other side of that is we're surrounded by a lot of
41:30
people that have a lot of means. They make a lot of money.
41:34
I mean, we have a lot of people here that are pretty wealthy in
41:38
this community and we lean on them and we try to get them.
41:44
It goes back to my old days of trying to convince a Sergeant
41:47
and an Army base to use us for their food service.
41:50
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm talking to people in the community and
41:53
I'm letting them know, as do our, all of our staff here, what
41:57
we're trying to do here for, for the community.
42:01
I have great board members who do the same thing.
42:05
And we're able to fundraise, you know, 1 1/2 two million three,
42:10
$3,000,000 a year. And that keeps us afloat.
42:15
And when I started here, and I don't, I don't want to get too
42:18
far in the weeds with you on, on this, but you know, our
42:22
endowment was low and shrinking. And having worked with a lot of
42:32
larger nonprofits in my career, I knew that you had to put money
42:37
away for a rainy day. I never really knew the pandemic
42:40
was coming and it was going to be like a year and a half or
42:42
rainy days. But in in any event, I, I had a
42:46
goal when I started here that I wanted to build the endowment to
42:51
about 30 million. We were about 6:00 at the time.
42:55
And people laughed at that. We're getting close to it now.
43:01
But the reason being is that at that level, if your endowment
43:06
can fund your shortfall at like 4 percent, 4% of 30 million is
43:13
like 1.2 million. And that was about what we were
43:16
fundraising at the time. And and your and your endowment
43:20
can still grow like at 6% or 7%, still make money.
43:23
It's still outpace inflation in good years, maybe even by
43:28
several percent, but you become sustainable.
43:32
If if, if something really dramatic happens in your fund
43:35
development drops to 0, you know, we're in a recession or a
43:39
depression, you're sustainable. And so was a goal to do that.
43:46
We're not quite there yet, but we're working our way there.
43:48
And we all are are joyful about that.
43:54
But I also believe that it fundamentally changes the
43:59
perception of people about not for profits, because I don't
44:04
think people work in it. Not for profits should not earn
44:08
a good wage. I don't think organizations
44:12
always have to struggle and use both sides of the piece of paper
44:15
and sharpen their pencil down to the last inch.
44:18
You know, I think we're trying to solve society's most
44:23
difficult problems. And in order to do that, you
44:29
need money to do it. If you don't have money, you
44:32
don't have your, you can't accomplish your mission.
44:35
And I, I belong to the southern group I've gone to in San
44:40
Francisco. It's, it's basically tech
44:42
people, right? And I'm not a tech person.
44:45
I, I, I mean, I respect technology here.
44:48
We have a lot of very innovative companies here.
44:52
We're either born here or they're growing now.
44:55
I remember being at one of the meetings, this was several years
44:58
ago, and there were some folks from Uber there and there were
45:02
some folks from Airbnb there. And they both have a big
45:04
corporate presence here. And I talked, I was, I was
45:09
talking to them about, you know, Uber at the time had just become
45:14
the world's largest transportation company.
45:17
And they don't own any cars, They don't own any buses.
45:22
And Airbnb, it just eclipsed some other company for the most
45:28
overnight stays on the planet. And I said here, here, you just
45:33
set a record for most at overnight stays.
45:36
You don't own any hotels, you don't own anything, right?
45:40
But you come up with some kind of a, an app that allows you to
45:46
be those kinds of organizations. So why can't you guys figure out
45:51
a way to feed everybody or house everybody, I mean?
45:56
So this was your approach to build that endowment?
45:58
That was my approach. My approach was, you know, these
46:02
are hard problems, You're solving other problems and
46:06
you're making money doing it. But let's figure out a way to
46:10
solve the hunger problem, the housing problem, let's use
46:16
technology. Let's figure out a way to do it
46:18
as a challenge to them as well as a call for for help because
46:22
we were doing those things. And I'm hoping it continues to
46:26
grow and get interest. There are a lot of people I met
46:30
that day who I'm still in touch with and they're, and they are
46:34
interested. And one day I hope we see
46:37
somebody much more, you know, intelligent to me and the people
46:43
that I know. And they can, they can solve
46:46
these problems because they are complicated problems.
46:49
And I, but I do believe that we can solve it in this country.
46:54
I do believe we can solve hunger.
46:56
I do believe we can solve housing.
46:59
It's just the will to do it. Let's shift gears, David.
47:05
I'd like to hear about a serious challenge that you've overcome
47:09
in your life, whether personal or professional, how you got
47:12
through that and what you learned.
47:17
Well, when I was still working for Source America, I was fairly
47:21
young in my career there, living in Washington, DC area.
47:27
We, my wife and I just had three kids and a four year period and
47:31
she was pregnant with #4 and she had a brother, a younger brother
47:37
who was in the Navy and he was aboard a Naval Air carrier
47:43
deployed to the Persian Gulf. This was during the Rock War.
47:50
And he also had three young children, all daughters like me.
47:55
I had three daughters and a fourth.
47:56
And on the way, we didn't know the sex at the time, but and his
48:00
wife left him, had a nervous breakdown and left, left the
48:05
girls all alone and the Navy base in Virginia Beach.
48:09
And eventually family brought them to us and dropped them off
48:15
and we contacted my wife's brother.
48:20
It was really hard to contact somebody who's on an aircraft
48:23
carrier, you know, on a mission. They had top secret kind of
48:28
communications. We were able to reach them.
48:30
And at the time, the Navy had no mechanism to allow him to leave
48:36
his ship. So we took the girls in.
48:42
And my job was to travel a lot to, to, to do what I was doing
48:48
with Sports America, you know, So I had to go into work and
48:54
explain this was a time where there wasn't a lot of paternity
49:01
leave for men and explain to my, to my company that my family had
49:10
to come first. And I had to take a different
49:13
role for a while until things could stabilize.
49:17
My wife is going to have another baby that was going to be #7 in
49:20
the household. And I had to help out.
49:24
I, I, there's no, no way around it.
49:27
And I, I was conflicted. My wife is conflicted.
49:31
I didn't know if it would end my career or create some stigma
49:38
there. Most of my bosses were retired
49:40
high-ranking military officers at the time that didn't have a
49:44
lot of experience with males wanting time off to raise their
49:52
family at home. But I did that it and it, it
49:57
taught me. One of the things that taught me
49:59
was what was really important to me at the time.
50:05
Now, it didn't totally hurt my or my, my career.
50:10
In fact, shortly after that, after we got my, my nieces
50:16
settled and you know, it took about 18 months for that to
50:19
happen. I, I was transferred to run a,
50:24
run the company on the West Coast and open up a California
50:27
office. So obviously it it didn't hurt,
50:31
but at the time I didn't know. And it was one of those times in
50:36
your life where you had to make a decision about career or
50:41
family, and I chose family. But I think the way I did it and
50:47
my willingness to do whatever I was asked also helped my career.
50:52
It was, again, just being transparent about my situation,
50:58
not asking for too much, but asking for a little help and
51:03
then paying it back when I could.
51:06
And so as my kids got older and I was able to travel a lot more
51:11
again, I was able to open up new markets and do some things for
51:18
Sports America that really helped move that organization
51:22
along. So that that was just one thing
51:26
that came to mind, you know, one decision that.
51:29
You know, there's a, there's a lot to unpack there.
51:32
I, I'm curious because you, you had sort of, you know, the
51:36
stress of these, your own family, you know, and, and
51:39
another one on the way. And then the stress added of
51:42
having, you know, 3 new young girls being added to the
51:45
household and providing for all of these people, being able to
51:49
take care of them. The uncertainty of, you know,
51:53
choosing family over career. What impact would that have?
51:57
Which of these elements was the most stressful for you?
52:05
Leaving my wife every morning just to go to work with six kids
52:09
that were, you know, the oldest was 6.
52:12
They were all girls. And then, you know, having her
52:16
far along in a pregnancy, you know, it's hard to walk out of
52:19
the house. I mean, that's a full time.
52:22
I have an amazing wife. I mean, but that's a full time
52:25
job plus for anybody. And obviously she wasn't working
52:31
outside the home, but working inside the home was crazy.
52:35
And so when I came home, it was, I immediately, you know, took
52:39
over what I could. I did the cooking.
52:43
I lined up, we used to line all the girls up and, you know,
52:47
bathe them. It was like a assembly line and
52:49
read them a story and get them in the bed.
52:51
And, and I, I, I would do the most like I could do, but the
52:58
stress was how do I even leave the house?
53:02
You know, it was, it was, it was crazy and awkward, but we got
53:08
through it. We knew people when we were
53:11
younger, both my wife and I, we, we, we knew families that had a
53:15
lot of kids. We knew that it could be done.
53:18
You just had to figure out, you just had to be organized to do
53:23
it. And we figured out ways to do
53:25
it. But it it did 'cause stress.
53:27
And then, and then right along with that was the perception of
53:34
the organization that I work for, how they felt about
53:39
somebody putting family first over the company.
53:42
Not all companies appreciate that.
53:46
I didn't know whether mine did or not, but eventually I learned
53:51
that they did. And in fact, to be honest, a
53:54
couple of them said it was their experience with me that helped
53:58
them learn that that that they could do that.
54:03
So, you know, another kind of silver lining to that, that you
54:10
could trust somebody to take care of their family and then
54:14
come back and deliver at a high level, you know, in return.
54:19
We're a living example of that. That's powerful, yeah.
54:22
And, and we do that here. I mean, we we're very family
54:25
friendly, very flexible with people.
54:29
When they have family needs, we bend over backwards for them
54:35
because I know it works. Yeah, David, I've just got one
54:38
more question for you. But before I ask it, I want to
54:40
do 2 things. Everyone listening today, pause
54:43
for just a second, open up your podcast app and hit the follow
54:46
or subscribe button. That way you can continue to get
54:49
more. Great.
54:49
Interviews like we've had today with David Dubinsky.
54:53
David, I also want to let people know the best way to get in
54:54
touch with you. And so I'm going to tell them to
54:57
look for you on LinkedIn. David Dubinsky, DUBIN SKY and
55:04
also give them your e-mail address, which is D Dubinsky at
55:08
PRRCS f.org and we'll have links to both of those in the show
55:13
notes for people. So the last question I have for
55:16
you, David, is we've had a nice conversation today.
55:19
Hope we stay in touch. A year from now.
55:22
You're celebrating something big, whether it's personal or
55:25
professional or maybe both. What's that one big thing you're
55:28
celebrating one year from today? Well, we're.
55:30
Working on expanding our children's program to opening up
55:35
a preschool and I hope to have that lock down exactly almost a
55:45
year from today in in July of 2026.
55:51
And I'll tell you why because we're really great.
55:55
First of all, childcare is really difficult for a lot of
55:58
families. We want it to be an inclusive
56:01
daycare. We want to be able to serve
56:03
families that can't normally afford it, families that have a
56:07
child maybe with a disability, and then private paid families
56:11
that just happen to live around here and are looking for
56:14
daycare. And we want all of those kids to
56:18
come to preschool and be together.
56:20
We think that that diversity will, will set them all up for
56:24
success when they finally go to kindergarten and go to public
56:28
school. But also because, you know, we
56:31
have all these parents bringing all these six month old, one one
56:36
year old, 1 1/2 year old kids to our swim program.
56:39
And if they see we have a preschool on site, you know,
56:42
it's like this continuation of young people coming here and,
56:46
and doing what, what we, you know, using the, the what we
56:51
have to offer. So it'll be this continual kind
56:56
of source of children. And also I believe that when we
57:00
bring children in here at 3 or 4 years old, they're the next wave
57:05
of leaders in our country when they get 25 years later, 30
57:10
years later. And if we start them out right,
57:17
learning that everyone has value, learning how to coexist
57:21
with people that are different, it will just really help the
57:25
community here and the, and the communities that they that they
57:29
all matriculate to later in life.
57:32
So part of it is trying to establish a legacy like that and
57:37
seeing some of the knowledge that I've gained in my career
57:44
kind of shared in a systematic way that when I'm gone, maybe
57:49
still can continue. Maybe I can continue that.
57:53
That would be my contribution to this organization and to, you
57:58
know, to society from from what I've learned from everybody else
58:03
that's been kind enough to teach me as I've grown to be an adult.
58:10
I love that setting up future generations.
58:12
For better Life and a better World, David Davinski from
58:16
Pomeroy Recreation, I want to be the first to thank you for
58:19
sharing both your time and your story with us today.
58:21
I really appreciate it. I love it very much for the
58:25
opportunity. Anthony and I wish you continued
58:28
luck and you have an amazing podcast.
58:30
So I'm an avid listener now. Thank you, David.
58:35
That's a wrap on another. Episode of the Inspired Stories
58:37
podcast. Thanks for learning with us
58:39
today, folks.