Latest / Leanne's Podcast / Becky’s Story

Transcript

Becky’s Story · Leanne's Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Motherhood Honestly.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Season two is fine yeah, and I'm not sure how we made it this far.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're new around here, this is the podcast where we talk about the bits of motherhood that don't always make it onto Instagram.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: The messy bits, the funny bits, the heartbreaking bits, and everything else in between.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've been here since season one, welcome back.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're the reason I started recording season two.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: You've probably enjoyed listening to Mums over there, so you're definitely in the right place.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: This season is bigger, more honest, and full of incredible women and maybe men, spoiler alert, sharing their journeys, and I cannot wait for you to hear them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a cuff, settle in, and let's get into season two of Motherhood Honestly.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Before we begin, I just want to give a gentle trigger warning that today's episode discusses baby loss, stillbirth, and the loss of a baby during labour.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Please take care of yourself while listening and remember it's absolutely okay to pause or step away if you need to.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is a very special one.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Becky's story is one of unimaginable heartbreak.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: At just 36 weeks pregnant, she went into labour expecting to meet her baby girl, but tragically, when Sophia was born, she showed no signs of life, and despite the medical team's efforts, they were unable to revive her.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Four weeks later, Becky and her husband received the devastating news about what had happened during Labour, leaving them with questions and a grief that had stayed with them for 24 years.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Today, Becky shares Sophia's story and the reality of baby loss and what it means to continue living with grief whilst raising a family.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is dedicated to Sophia, whose life may have been far too short, but whose place in her family will never be forgotten.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a cupper, get comfortable, and join us as we remember Sophia on what would have been her 24th birthday.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is Becky's story.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: We've been here for 40 minutes now.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I only just started recording.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um thank you so much for coming today.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get straight into it because I feel like it's important um before we speak about this and your journey.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um you've had a very difficult time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna talk about baby loss um and like the aftermath of that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously, if anybody's listening and this isn't the right episode for you to dip into, um, then maybe choose a different one.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it will be a difficult conversation.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I hope you're okay and you feel ready.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel ready.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: You feel ready.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I feel ready.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an easy thing to do.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do feel ready, and yeah, it's not something I often talk about on a daily basis, put it that way, but I do think that it's important to talk about it, and she is part of our life and our family, and why not?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, good for you.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go back to um the beginning of your pregnancy.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: How were you feeling?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Were you looking forward to becoming a mum?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me all about that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my gosh.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um we we married, I was married when I was 20, and um it's something that I've always wanted, a family.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, although when we actually fell pregnant, it wasn't we weren't actually expecting it to happen so really.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of like, oh my god, I'm pregnant.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we were delighted, obviously, and couldn't wait.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we we started to prepare the the nursery and all the things that you do when you're pregnant, look forward to it, and you know, um just buying all the pram and Moses basket and preparing for her.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um we didn't find out sex, we wanted it to be a surprise, and um, yeah, it was you know a healthy pregnancy, you know, there were no no complications.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I felt a little bit nauseous at the beginning, but other than that, I was really healthy.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Any cravings?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: There probably were a few cravings, um, things perhaps I shouldn't be craving for, like beer.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was stellar or something like that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I used to smell it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I get my fits, and my husband used to open a can of it, and I'd be like, let me smell it.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, as a nail polish remover.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that one was another one.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Acetone.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I love the smell of it.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's like it's not crazy, isn't it?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, some people have weird cravings.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Mine was um ice and apples.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ice and apples I used to sit and crunch ice.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I remember um yeah, I used to have bags of it and I used to sit and crunch it.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, it's weird.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now Olivia loves having ice in her drinks.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh takes you back.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know, doesn't it?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the pregnancy was good, um, but your labour began earlier and your waters broke at 36 weeks.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: They did, yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was it was um early hours of Monday morning um on the 28th of October, and um I just woke up and the bed was wet.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh, my waters are broken.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um at first I thought, my god, have I wet myself?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just don't expect it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: The default feeling is I just thought, oh my goodness, this feels different, you know.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I got up, um, went to the toilet and realized that yeah, it it was my waters.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so um we called the hospital, they said to go in, um, and straight away they uh started me on antibiotics as a precaution for infection.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at that stage I hadn't actually started labour.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um pains or no contractions, no pain.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they were just monitoring me.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Baby at that point was was fine.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, my my mum came in to see me and my family, and you know, we're all a bit concerned like why has this happened?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: But they said it it can and it's normal, you know.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um they said we're just gonna leave you to go into labour naturally, but we're gonna give you antibiotics as a precaution.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um so the Wednesday morning of the 30th of October, I finally started getting contractions early in the morning.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was probably about five o'clock in the morning.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they called my husband Simon to come in about six o'clock.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we went down to the delivery suite.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, everything was seemed okay at that point.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was coping really well with the contractions, yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it was very obviously scary.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, I'm 24 at the time as well.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, your first baby, you're in their hands, and you go along with everything they say, and um and I just felt like you know, they had the babies, the the heart monitor on my tummy at that point, just keeping um the heart rate of baby at that point, yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I decided, you know, I just felt like I don't know, uncomfortable somehow.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: You said to me you felt a sudden change, and then suddenly it's I did, I felt different.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I don't know, I I felt like the contractions become different, harder, very strong, and um my body was started to shake, I wasn't particularly coping very well.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I needed the toilet, so I went to the toilet, they put a uh mobile monitor on my my tummy, so I went so they carried on monitoring me when I went to the toilet, and then as soon as I came back and they they changed over the monitors back to the the normal monitor, I just felt um out of control, like I I felt pain like I've never felt before.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like contraction pain backs or just like no, it wasn't, it was not contraction, it was my body was almost like um shaking.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was I wanted to be sick, and the pain was coming from my tummy, so it I felt like there were kicks and punches inside my tummy.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody was in there punching and kicking me inside, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it felt.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I screamed out and said, I can't do this, like something's not right.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Look, it's fine, it's just a contraction, it's okay, we're gonna give you an epidural.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they gave me an epidural, everything calmed down.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was praising the you know, the anaesthetists because it was just a relief and going from that scary moment and that pain, and I thought, my god, if this is what it's gonna be like for the rest of the day, yeah, I can't do it, you know.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I had the epidural and everything settled down, and and it uh the day went on, yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then at sort of lunchtime, um, our midwife at the time she wanted to have a lunch break, so a senior midwife would come in, um, and she was sat there, you know, just monitoring everything, everything seemed okay.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she asked me, you know, what names have you got, and this is the best day of your life, and all of this kind of thing, and yeah, chatting about, you know, all sorts of things, and then in the afternoon, um, our midwife, her name was Teresa, I even remember her name.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was actually quite new.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: She was she was just finished university, so she was quite new to the job, but she was amazing and she did everything.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think she did everything right in terms of whenever there was a problem, she would always go out to the senior midwives and ask for help.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this happened quite frequently in the afternoon.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she would always question the heart rate, the trace.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she would say, you know, do you think we should put a clip on the baby's head?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the senior midwives would say no, they would glance at the trace, you know, almost like they were so, so busy elsewhere that when they did come in to check, it was very quick, a quick glance.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, everything seems fine, you're doing everything great, and then they would be gone again.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then an hour later it would happen again.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think we should, you know, try something else?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think this?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: How were you feeling in at this point?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I can imagine that would be I guess I would feel a bit anxious, like that that's being continually checked, and she's having to keep asking for a second opinion.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: How did you feel about that?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I I didn't.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like they were just doing their job.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then when the senior midwife said it was fine, I just thought, okay, it's fine.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're being thorough.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're just checking, they're over-checking, and you know, that was that was how it was.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was their role, and that was their job.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the the trace was there, the heart rate was there, it was all it was all going fine.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it got to the point where I think it was about four o'clock, and they said, right, we're gonna check to see how far dilated you are, and I was 10 centimetres dilated, and so they said, you know, you can begin pushing.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And well, it took it took me two hours to push her out, and which is a hell of a long time, and I kept thinking to myself, why is she not coming out?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm exhausted, and um anyway, so I pushed, and then about five past six, um, she was born, they laid her on my tummy, and it was clear to see that she wasn't breathing.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at that point they pressed the red buzzer, the emergency red button.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: In come 12 people, I would say, something like that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Doctors, you know, mid senior midwives.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they all came, you know, running into the room, and from what was just one midwife and us to a whole room full of people, it was quite frightening.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I always remember my mum saying to me, when I was born, I wasn't breathing very well, and I was breach, and they had to like you know clear the airways and get me breathing, and I just thought that was what it was, and so they whisker away and they I kind of looked through the gaps of them working on her and thinking, okay, any minute now she's gonna breathe, and there's gonna be a cry.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of the senior midwives came past and she sort of touched my hand and said, you know, they're doing everything they can, you know, and I just said okay, and I kept I kept hope that she was gonna take her first breath.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my husband at that point, I remember his head was down.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask, how was I doing that?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was yeah, I think he I think he probably knew that something was drastically wrong because she didn't look the colour she should have looked when any baby's born.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there was just silence.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: There was just absolute silence, I think, and also I think shock at that point because how could it be?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: One minute, you know, you're we've got this amazing trace and heart rate to she's completely nothing.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: There was nothing, no response, no heartbeat, no blood, you know, nothing.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, after about what felt like a lifetime, it was probably about five, eight minutes later they decided that they they couldn't bring her back to life, and we got that devastating news um that she she she didn't make it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I just remember thinking at that point when I gave birth to her, I looked at the trace, I looked at the heart monitor, and it was it carried on, yeah.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it it was about 180 beats per minute, and it didn't stop when I gave birth to her.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's a strange new thing to think about, but I just thought, why has that not changed anyway?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it was my whole world.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Broken in that moment.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was it, that was when what was meant to be the best day of our lives was probably the worst.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, um had anybody said um what could have happened?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, nobody said anything.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about those first few moments after.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so they they gave her straight to me, yeah, which I felt was um I wasn't quite prepared.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was quite scared at that moment because I didn't I knew she was dead, but I didn't I didn't know what she would look like, you know, and they gave us straight to me and put her in my arms, and I it took me a little while to look down at her, yeah because I was still absorbing what I'd been told.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, it was it was hard because she was perfect.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: She was absolutely perfect, she was still warm, yeah, and um her eyes were closed, and she just thought she was beautiful.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: You named her Sophia?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Sophia Ellie.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a gorgeous name.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um yeah, we just held her and we cried, and at the at that moment all those people had gone, all those doctors and senior midwives left the room.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: The midwife Teresa that we had, she ran out of the room and we actually never saw her again.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think she blamed herself.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine how hard that would have been for her.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, because it was such a shock, you know, for for everyone, even the the professionals, you know, you're there, you're in their hands, you're there, you know, they're there to protect you and look after you, and and you're there to give birth, and whatever happened um that day was not meant to happen, and it was clear that something drastically had gone wrong.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so um at that moment, then Simon decided to go and tell the family because the the phone was constantly ringing.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, my family were waiting for news and they were worried, and he had to go and do that, and that wasn't really difficult for him, really hard.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine doing that.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they all came in, they all came in.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one by one, and surrounded the the bed.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was still on the bed having just given birth, and yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: But your mum was there with you, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: My mum came in, and my sister and my brothers.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of my brothers, my other brother was away at the time, and um yeah, and my Simon's um mum and and dad and partner, um, and everybody got to hold her.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's really special.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Which was really special at the time.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: It just I was just so numb.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I couldn't accept the feeling because there was just nothing.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine um as your family, uh they probably didn't know what to say.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I can imagine it was quite difficult to I don't know.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um how can I explain it like what to say to you?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think for you, what to you know, I I don't know if they're expecting you to say something, but I can imagine you you you don't know what to say in that moment.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was numb, I was and and I am the sort of person who I'm the one that looks after everybody else.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I'm that person that comforts other people.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So for them to be doing that to me, just I just felt wrong.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just like an alien for you.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought what I just thought what's going on because you know, we're meant to be celebrating, we're meant to be, yeah, there's meant to be, you know, balloons and flowers of joy and happiness, not sympathy and upset grandparents, and yeah, yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and I you know I'd had an epidural, so I wasn't able to walk at that point.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was still, it was still the feeling was still trying to come back, so I couldn't move, and they were you know surrounded me.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then my sister she said to me, Um, I'm gonna call Ian, who is the local vicar, who's a friend of ours.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna call him and get him to come in, and he did straight away, and um we all sort of sat, you know, stood around the bed, and I was holding her, and he basically came in and just sort of said a prayer.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not particularly religious, but in that moment I needed it.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I really needed some kind of guidance or you know, logic or something just to get my head around really what was happening and from going to something that was um you know, we're supposed to add to our family, you know, a new life that was completely taken away in that in that moment.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he did a prayer and blessed us as a family and Sophia, and then he started talking about you know, open the gates to the heaven and all of this, and it was just surreal, yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the only comfort, I suppose, in that in that moment really for me was you have to sort of pick out positives in anything that's traumatic, yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way I deal with um traumatic situations.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I lost my father when I was 15, and I just remember thinking that he's there, yeah, at least there's somebody there to look after her, and so he was there waiting, and I had the vision of that, you know.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um take comfort in that as well, don't you?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I do, yeah, indeed, especially yeah, and it really helped me to think okay, that's maybe.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why he died when he did.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds crazy, but maybe that's when Dad died when he did because he was meant to be there for her, you know.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was comforting, and that was really lovely thing that my sister did to do that because um I wasn't thinking about anything like that in the at that moment.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I just was in shock really.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, over the next sort of few days, you spoke really honestly about your milk coming in, and obviously Sophia was not there to feed.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: What did that feel like?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: What was that experience?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, so um, well, the doctor, so I I went home and the doctor came to see me, Dr.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Williams.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bless her heart, I loved her to bits.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is at the local GP.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is when GPs were GPs, like she knew everything about not just me and my health, but my whole family.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she looked after my dad.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when my dad was in and out of hospital, she was there for us, and that those were the days when the GPs used to visit you at home.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, land now.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was upstairs, and um, I was just in bed at the time, and then my husband said, Oh, Dr.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Williams is downstairs, she wants you to come to come down.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, um yeah, I I remember walking down the stairs, and I was just like a zombie, really.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I can't explain how I felt.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt so lost and so confused and broken, and she just stood there and she said nothing.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: She just stood there with her arms open, and she was quite a big lady, you know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember looking at her and she just that didn't say anything, and I just went up to her and gave her the biggest hug, and she just all you need, isn't it?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my word, it really was, and she still didn't say anything for yeah, a good few minutes.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Was she do you think she was like giving you like space to to speak first?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just need to be able to do it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just allowing it, yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think she just needs for her as well.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I could see she was gutted for us, you know.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: She was really gutted for me and wanted to give me that hug, and it really, really helped.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was very powerful, actually.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then we went and sat down, and she just then spoke to me about you know what's gonna happen because you know, the next couple of days your milk's gonna come in, and you know, you're gonna feel um a massive urge to feed a baby, feed your baby, and um I'm gonna give you some tablets that's gonna help dry that up as soon as possible, but it is gonna take time, and you need to keep taking them every day.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she's advised me not to take my bra off.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: She said, keep it on all the time, even at bedtime in the bath.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Don't take it off at all because you're gonna stimulate the milk even further by right taking the bra off and losing that support.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember just sort of yeah, having a bath with my bra on, and I just remember changing the pads, you know, like every couple of hours because they were just full of milk, and oh my goodness, the feeling I can uh the urge was so so strong, and um I actually thought at that point, you know, I I could have fed any baby, it was just so powerful that urge to feed, but I wanted my baby, yeah, and she wasn't there.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't able to do that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me, um, I just want to jump back.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: How you said you obviously when you were home, how long did you get to spend with Sophia in the hospital?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So from the delivery suite we went up to um I think it was level seven, where there is a sort of a special room that you go to.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is on a ward that is full of new mums, you know, so you do hear the babies crying, and so we we were able to go there.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, by this point it was in the evening, so they they said we want you to stay, you know, stay the night and keep an eye on you, of course, and you can spend the night with your baby.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um did Simon get to stay with you as well, yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so he got to stay, and we we literally just sort of laid her on the bed and we just we just just stared at her and explored her really.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just we were parents in that moment, you know, and we knew that obviously time was limited.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to take a pause here for a moment, guys, to give a gentle trigger warning.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: In the next part of the conversation, Becky talks about the physical changes Sophia's body went through in the hours following her death.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: This may be difficult to hear, particularly for anybody who has experienced baby loss.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So please take care of yourself and remember it's absolutely okay to pause, skip ahead, or step away if you need to.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't have long with her.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um I remember the midwife kept coming in and almost like it felt like she was disturbing us by taking photos of her and um you know wanting to do footprints and hand prints and things like that.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking at the time, just leave us alone, like enough is enough.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want you in here anymore.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't have the words to say it, but now I am so so grateful that they did that because we'd have had nothing of her, you know.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Back then we didn't have phones, we didn't have a camera with us, you know.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was so we have got those photos to cherish forever, and um I'm so glad they did, but at the time it felt wrong, yeah.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you disturbing us?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wanted just that was our moment, that was our bubble, that was us three together, and um yeah, we're still like absorbing the whole situation, and it was just horrendous, really.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't, I just couldn't, I couldn't believe it.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but yeah, uh but every you know, every hour that ticked by, you know, she changed, physically changed.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, she had a lot of bruising that came out all over her legs, where they tried to revive her, all her chest.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um her face kind of started to look slightly sunken, yeah, and um her lips had gone black, and that was really, really hard to see.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, your beautiful baby.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: She was perfect when she was born, but as the hours ticked by, she changed, and it was really hard to see, and then it got to the point where I think we both agreed that it was time to you know pass her over, and at that point as well, she started having blood coming out of her nose and things like that, and I just couldn't do it, I just couldn't see her like that.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they came and got her and took her off.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they talked to us about post-mortem, um, which we agreed to because I think we wanted to know why this had happened in case we wanted to have another child and we needed something to look for, you know, or so the postmortem took place four weeks later.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: About that, yeah, yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um you talked me through that.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we went to um get the results of the post-mortem at the JR, and it was our consultant um who delivered us that news, and she she was talking about you know, the uh the slides that they'd taken, the tests, you know, the um tissues, you know, that they had um tested, and um and basically it was it it seemed like she was going on and on and on and on, and I was trying to sort of understand what she was saying, it was very medical.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and basically she sort of said, you know, there were no findings of infection.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um the placenta seemed, you know, no infection in the placenta.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we sat there going, okay, and almost like waiting for them to say, Oh, but it was a heart, or this happened, or the placenta failed, or but nothing came.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so my husband asked, Well, so what what are you saying?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Well, if you look at the trace, you can see that around 10:30 in the morning, that morning, um she got distressed and she was basically starved of oxygen, and she died around that time.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I look back, that was the moment when I felt all that kicking and punching, and that was the moment where she got distressed, like babies do, and when they get distressed, they struggle to breathe, and that's what happened, and yeah, she died, and they should have given me a cesarean at that moment.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was discovered that the monitor had been recording your heart rate.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not saying it is.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I mentioned that at the time I said, you know, I remember looking at the monitor, and she said, Yes, I can't disagree with you.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: She can never say I I agree with you, yeah, but she could say I I don't disagree with you, and therefore we said to her, So basically, then were you monitoring my heart rate instead of hers?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they said that could quite possibly have happened, yes.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so my husband asked the question of you know, the old-fashioned heart monitors they used to use, where they used to put them on the on the oh, yeah, like the like hit listen through with your ear.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, had you have used one of those, would you have determined the different heart rates?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they she said, Yes.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So even with all that technology, um that she still, yeah, she's still um and I guess in does it do you reflect back?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose do you reflect back on the midwife going in and out and asking for a second opinion?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because there was clearly a problem.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously she died at 10:30, so we're talking eight hours before I gave birth to her.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So every person that came in at that point, she was already dead.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when they were when they were questioning the monitor, or certainly Teresa was questioning the heart rate, she was absolutely right.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everything she said, she picked up on it, but it was too late by then, yeah, because I should have had the cesarean that morning at 10:30.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, that was really, really hard to accept.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember just feeling like I wanted to, I was so angry, I wanted to scream and shout and punch, but I had absolutely nothing left in the tank to do that.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't, I didn't know what to say, I had nothing to say.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just so struggling to grasp the fact that all those healthcare professionals between 10, 30 and 8 came in, and not one of them.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know Theresa, obviously, but do you know what I mean?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: No one really followed through with it.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, and and like Theresa said, shall we put the clip on the baby's head to determine the heart rate, the maternal heart rate to the fetal heart rate, because that was always the problem.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I do have a very fast heart rate.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have um SVT, so my heart rate is fast.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, at that point, especially at 10:30 around that time, my heart rate went nearly over 200 beats per minute.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, because of the feelings you were having, and that's a and because baby was distressed, my body was distressed, and I was showing signs of that while with the nauseas, with the shakes, I felt dizzy, I felt like I was gonna pass out, everything became intense, and it was because she was you know struggling and fighting to breathe.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in that moment, I I couldn't cope, I didn't know what to do, and and that was the moment when it all should have it would have been an emergency cesarean, and then of course that it did actually show on the trace that moment as well.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot understand why that was missed.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I still I still can't I was gonna say, how do you like live with that unanswered question?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was that was a massive blow uh again after losing her because I was I was expecting it to be um there was a health problem, yeah.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so to think that actually she could have survived had they have done these things, and that she would have had an incredible life with us, yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that whole you know that whole opened up in inside of me and my husband that will never be filled, and I just think their lives go on, you know, their their daily lives go on in that job, and yet that has destroyed us, yeah, because you didn't do X, Y, and Z.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you didn't do those things that could have saved a life.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're not talking just you know, taking an organ out, we're talking a life here, yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that was um really hard to to swallow.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was really hard, and that was where I think things became I I really struggled after that, and I think really, if I'm honest with you, I think since then, like even now, like I'm really protective of my boys, like if anybody tries to hurt them or disrespect them, or I'm really quite you know, um protective over them, yeah.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I have this this yeah, this anger, this inner anger that that I had back then just come back.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so I think it's always in you, it just you know, you just have to learn to try and navigate it, yeah.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um you mentioned your sons.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so after it took around about a year for you to find the courage to try for another baby.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that, and I guess the fear around that.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was, it was, um, it took me a long time.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think um Simon and I had a few problems of obviously, um, because I was still very much, you know, wrapped in my grief and struggled to sort of think about moving on, you know, just with general life, yeah, let alone you know, going back to work and things like that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Although I did go back to work quite quickly because for me that helped me back to not normal life because it was never normal after that, really, but just some sort of normality.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but my husband um he went back a lot quicker and he wanted to get back to normal life quicker than I did, and we did struggle with that.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: That became you know a real problem in our marriage, and um, and he also said, you know, we can try again, we can try again, and and I just I just felt like but we but I I can't imagine doing that again, yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: And also we've just lost Sophia, it's not just she wasn't just a baby, she was you know, a little beautiful little girl, and she was our daughter, and you know, I'm grieving for her, and I used to say to people, like, it's not just I've not just um you know lost a child, but she's lost her her whole life that she could have had with us, you know.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: She's the one that's lost the life that she she could have had, and so I was grieving for her, yeah.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that she's gone to heaven if that's where we go, and I'm sure it is yeah, hopeful that we do go to heaven and we see everyone again.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I just thought she shouldn't be up there, she should be with us, you know.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think grief is really hard, and you know, I understand that people process it very, very differently.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like, and it's not a judgment to a man, but when Tottie's dad passed away, you know, he came home straight back to work.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, come on, let's crack on, let's move on.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, hold on a minute, yeah.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I need to I need to be in this feeling and not rush things.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it's just to say that you know grief comes in different ways, doesn't it?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you deal with it very differently.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I can imagine for yourself that would have been really difficult in your marriage.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was really difficult, and you know, we had some ups and downs, and I I you know I was just in my bubble, I really struggled to move out of that bubble for a long, long time.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just couldn't think of possibly having another baby, um, and you know, moving on and getting back to normal life, you know, and that's what people I think forget as well is that you know, you've still been through labor, you've you've carried that baby for nine months, everything's ready, everything's ready, you know.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: I my physical body was exhausted, my milk was coming in, you know, I was still healing.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um so physically I was I was you know I was broken physically and mentally.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I suppose you've also got the added element as well, as I you know, I appreciate the family knew, but you know, friends, colleagues that were all waiting for you to to bring this baby home, and and that wasn't the case, and then having to navigate conversations around that with different people.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was hard.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Really hard.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was really hard, and you know, and again, it's everyone deals with it differently, and I I understand that.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I mean, I had friends that were amazing that would be round, you know, offering dinners and flowers and all sorts of things, and that was quite overwhelming at the time because I remember actually it was Halloween.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so she she uh I say she was born to heaven on the 30th of October, and we came home on Halloween, and I remember um the pumpkin that we carved, you know, a couple of weeks before had actually died, and it was all kind of melted into itself.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I just looked at it thinking that's exactly how I feel.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was really strange, and that night, you know, normally we'd have 20, 30 people knock at the door of trickle treaters, yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not one person knocked at the door.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Not one.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost as if to say, don't go to 92 because they've just lost their baby, you know.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so it so word was out straight away.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, we had flowers and sympathy cards, and that was really difficult because again, you don't expect that, you want celebration, you want joy, you want happiness.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want sympathy cards.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to rip them up.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want flowers of sympathy and sadness, you know.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want I want the teddies, I want the baby clothes, I want all those things.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really hard.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would um yeah, I would go to the shop, and and um there was one neighbour actually, she she literally crossed the road to avoid me because she didn't know what to say.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I I understand it, but god, it it was really hard.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people avoid you.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and then I just remember one time when I went to fill up the car with petrol, and I went in to pay, and um, it was my usual petrol station, and the the lady behind the counter, um, she always used to say, Oh, not long now, you know, not long now.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I went in and she said, Oh my gosh, she's had the baby, and I said, Yeah, yeah, and I thought, Oh, I don't know what to say, you know.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, What did you have?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, A little girl, and she said, So where is she then?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I just had to say to her, and there's a big long cue behind me as well, and I just said, Um, she didn't make it, she died, and she just burst into tears, and I I just kind of walked out, and I was like, I'm so so sorry that I've done that to you, but I have to go now, and I left her bawling her eyes out, and like that was really hard.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, I I I'm the one that people come to and cry, and but there's me telling people this dreadful news, and then they're having to deal with that.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just thinking, this is all just so wrong, this is all awful.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to hide away, and I just wanted to be at home in my bubble and yeah, safe place, safe place, not see anyone, not speak to anyone, and um yeah, and I did that for quite a while.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, yeah, yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess after sort of around a year, you you had the courage to try again.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, yeah.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So quickly going back to my husband and I, and you know, that sort of difficult time.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think you know, I wasn't ready to move on.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted to move on for me, you know, not for him, but for me.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted me to get better.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was really hard for him to see me like that.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, um, after a year, I did get my head around it and thought, okay, this is a new baby, this is gonna be a new baby, a new, a new life.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not Sophia, it's not gonna bring her back.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but hopefully it will help heal us.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we got pregnant very quickly, as I always did.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um that was a different pregnancy because obviously I knew that uh anything could go wrong at any time, yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but I was very, very well looked after.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: I decided not to go to the JR this time.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: My experience was um I I couldn't face going back in there again, so I decided to go to Banbury, and my consultant was um a lovely guy called um Jonathan Nicol Nicholas, I think it was, um and he was amazing and he just said to me, You're we're gonna look after you, you know, and I I trusted him, yeah.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had a lot of scans, uh, a lot of support.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but because Henry was breach, um they decided to do an elective cesarean at 38 weeks, um, which I felt was the right thing to do as well.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he was born.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was a it was a really lovely experience.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: And oh yeah, just the minute I looked at him I just absolutely melted.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was in love in that moment, totally in love with him, and yeah, just it did, it really healed me massively because I've always wanted to be a mum, and yeah, you know, growing up, my sister and my brother, my older brother had had children, and I was always so you know supportive of them and and helped them and loved my nieces and nephews, and yeah, and I this was my moment now, and Henry just oh, just yeah, the feeling was amazing.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: I bet.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um I couldn't stop looking at him, but it did actually um get to the point where the midwives had to take him away at one point because I I wasn't sleeping in uh in the ward because I was so worried and besotted um that I couldn't believe you know he was alive and he was breathing and he was well, and I just couldn't leave him alone.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so they said, Becky, you need to get some rest, you know.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna take and of course I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, don't take him away.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew I needed that rest, so yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: How did you find um uh motherhood?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Did you?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I loved it.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I was made to be a mother.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I just knew exactly what to do because I again I've been there for my sister's children and I knew what to do.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was I am a great mother, you are, and it's my biggest achievement in my life for sure.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just absolutely love my boys, like yeah.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm gonna move on because four years later you welcomed Joseph and you experienced the vaginal birth that you'd hoped for.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, let's talk about it.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was a real whirlwind because um uh again, a brilliant pregnancy, no problems at all with either boys, actually.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as we were approaching the birth, um Joe was also breached, and there was talk again of another cesarean, and I really didn't want to have a cesarean.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wanted to have a vaginal birth, but a good outcome, a positive outcome and a good experience.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was my goal, and so they said, No, we don't feel it's you know the right thing, we want to do another cesarean, and I was questioning it and thinking, well, okay, okay.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so at 39 weeks, um, I was booked in and everything was ready to go, had the drip in, the tights on, the attractive tights, you know, they put you in, and um they palpated to see where baby was was lying, and they said he's actually head down, he's turned.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, in that case, I want to go home.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Well, you can have your baby in 10 minutes, and I said, No, I take it out, I take my socks off, take the drip out.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go home, and I want to do this naturally, I can do this, and so they accepted my request.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you were literally minutes from a C section, yeah, minutes from a C section, and I just said, No, I want to go home and I want to do this naturally, and then so we went home, and then a week later I went into labour at home, and I stayed on my own at home.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were actually building our home at the time, so we were actually living in a static caravan, believe it or not.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: We were we were um building our a barn conversion at the time, and um so all the builders would like they'd know when I was contracting because the whole caravan was bouncing on the mouth and I was on my belting board in the room, and they kept sort of looking at the window, you're all right in there.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: So Simon was only across the way in his office, his sort of man-made office that he he'd created, and he'd pop over every five minutes to see me and check on me.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I wanted him out the way, I just wanted to be left alone.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: If I need you, I'll shout.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I closed all the curtains and I have my birthing ball, I have my music on, my aromatherapy, and I was in control.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be in control, I can do this, and I I knew that it would be okay.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then around so I was I was contracting all day, and then around tea time, it you know, the contraction started to get stronger, and I I sort of said, You better ring your mum because you know she was an hour away.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we need to sort of think about going in.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: So she arrived.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Henry was obviously only what three, nearly four at the time, so he was in bed, and off we went to the hospital, and um, yeah, about six hours later in the morning he was born um on my dad's birthday when he died when I was 15.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in that moment I was satisfied, I was I was it was what I'd always wanted.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had a beautiful midwife called Joyce Joseph.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um she was amazing, she took care of me, she was almost like a mother figure.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she nurtured me, and she knew that you know I needed to be taken care of, and I trusted her.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and everything she said, I I I knew that she was correct, that I just had every faith in her, yeah, and it was an amazing experience.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I had gas and air only, um, I was totally in control of my body.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that I was worried about, I I said, I I vocalized it, and they would listen.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: You would listen to it, everything was done, you know.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were monitoring my heart rate, fetal heart rate was completely different.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we knew we were we were good there, and yeah, he was born, and it was just the most amazing experience.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was so so so happy in that moment thinking, okay, I've done it.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've done boys, I've got my boys, and I am done.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew I didn't want any more after that.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was complete at that point, and then I guess um you know the boys, they're obviously very grown up now.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: They are but I complimented you because you don't look old enough to have those these old boys, but tell me about them.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are they different?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are they the same?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: They are tell me all about them.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're very they're very different, but they're very much they're very both very um ambitious, hard working.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um they they're both doing extremely well in their careers, um, and they are very polite, kind young men, and everyone I speak to always speaks very highly of them.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: They all say, you know, your if if my children grow up like your boys, I would be really happy.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: You must be so proud of them.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so so so proud of them.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they know all about Sophia.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Every year we celebrate.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's my next great, yeah.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: We celebrate her her her birthday.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we always do something, we go out for a meal, or we we do something at home, we always get a cake, we always sing happy birthday, we go and visit the grave.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a couple of years ago, my my eldest son Henry, he went off to Prague with his friends on holiday, and he he facetimed me and he said, Mum, he said, um, I'm gonna get a tattoo.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh gosh, no, please.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what you expect to hear from you done in Prague, please.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, what are you doing?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: He says, Mum, I'm gonna get a tattoo.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: He said, but I think you'll like it.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think I want you to see it before I I actually get it done.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay, all right, show me.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it was um it was it was Sophia's name and date of birth going along his arm, and I just thought, how can I not how can I not like angry?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how can I not accept that?
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: But um, so they're very much, she's very much in their lives, yeah, you know.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they although they don't actually know the full story, this is gonna be the probably the first time they've heard the whole story.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've never actually sat down with them and told them in depth what actually happened.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they will probably listen to this and yeah, they'll hear it's gonna be quite hard for them to hear this, but I can imagine for them, I think listening to this, they would be immensely very proud of you.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna make you cry again.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have a crier.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um Kenya and Joseph, if you're listening, hello.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they will, yeah, they they will be.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know that we're very close family actually, and um, and what's really lovely is that they've got girlfriends, um, and they come around, they they love coming to our home and staying with us, and and honestly, like over the years, the hardest bit about not having your my daughter, you know, having had two sons, is that I don't have that female company, yeah, and that and that you know, daughter to share shopping with and going to get our nails done together.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I am a girly girl, you know, I love all that kind of stuff, and you know, I dance, I do Latin and ballroom dancing, and I I often think, you know, all my dresses, and I think would she have liked that?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: Would she have got into dancing?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: All the questions that continuously go round your mind, it never stops.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and when she we reached the twenty her 21st birthday, that was a really difficult time because again it brings it all back.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: What would she look like?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who what sort of a person would she be?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, um what part what would her role have been in our family?
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, would she have been like a mother figure to the boys or would she have been annoying, you know, that annoying older sister, like all those things, and um yeah, that that's really difficult as well.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: People don't often talk about that.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: That you know you lose a baby, but that they're with you forever, it's the future, it's the every birthday, every Christmas, you know, there is always that empty chair at the table, there's always the yeah, the extra presence that should have been there for her, and yeah, that that's hard.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: That never that never leaves you.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Aside from uh, you know, her obviously her birthday, or any like milestone or moments in life that you have kind of like the has bring the loss back to you?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Any specific dates, or is it you know the boys' birthdays, maybe, or yeah, with you?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um obviously definitely on the day that was that's always Halloween is always a big thing.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so now like Halloween is everywhere, and that's that is definitely a trigger because it was Halloween at the time, and also um bonfire night because after we lost her, we did actually go to a bonfire night event.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was my friends just trying to sort of you know get me out and yeah, help.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember just feeling like completely low, and what am I doing here?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: And all these fireworks going off of joy.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's a significant feeling, isn't it?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't feel like that.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to hide and and be sad and you know, try and sort of get my head around what's happened, you know.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, those sort of moments, um, but also like I say her 21st birthday, because a 21st is you know, you celebrate a 21st, don't you?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big birthday.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's gonna be an ongoing thing when she reaches you know the 30th anniversary and so on.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also like now my niece is pregnant, you know, this is my sister's um uh youngest daughter.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we we're really close to Bella um because when we lost Sophia, we we took Bella on holiday.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: She was almost like our little step-in daughter, um, and we just you know love the whole family to bits, but we we we're very close to Bella, yeah.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially my husband, you know.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so now she's pregnant, you know.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: I do that is a bit of a trigger.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure everything will be fine.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: She will be absolutely fine, but I say to her, you know, make sure you read up on everything, you know.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, just shout if you want if nothing's doesn't feel right, you must you must say so.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: But like you know, I've said this about what I do.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're not doing it to scare people, you're doing it to educate people.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's important and there's a difference.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you coming on and sharing your story today is to educate people.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: And even when um, you know, a good sort of eight months after I lost Sophia, I did set up a little support group, yeah, and it was to help me as well as others.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about it.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was called Born to Heaven, and um it was just I just literally visited other women that had lost babies or had some miscarriages or or lost a child, um, and I would just sit with them, I'd just go to their home and I would just sit with them and and let allow them to talk to me, you know, about their experiences, and I was able to sort of just be a listening ear because I remember that's what I needed when I was going through it, is that you know, I needed somebody that had been through it to understand what I was going through.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um I managed to through the GP get in contact with a lovely girl called Nikki who um really, really helped me.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like she'd been through it with her son in previous years, and you know, she was still going through it, she was still grieving at the time, and I managed to, you know, reach out to her, and it was amazing because we spent hours on the phone talking about all the ins and outs of everything, the things that were really quite raw to talk about, things perhaps I wouldn't talk to anyone else about because it was too hurtful.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, my relationship with my husband, and how you know that change in us, and obviously we're trying to navigate that as well, like how you move forward in a marriage after that kind of loss.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so yeah, she was amazing.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt that maybe that's what I could do and help other women.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I did that for a couple of years, and then I became the mum, and then another mum to another boy, I mean, and then yeah, and then life got a bit busy, so I just sort of laid that to rest and yeah, moved on.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um we said about um you know, doing something like that, it's turning your pain into a purpose, and it can be quite healing in some ways.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me it was, yeah, because that's how I deal with it.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: I like to talk about it because it keeps it, it opens it out, it it it escapes out from me by talking about it.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not holding it all in, but also it's just lovely to hear what other people have to say about what they felt, and I can relate to it.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's nothing like relating to an experience because everybody's experience is different, but there'll be elements that is the same as uh as as your story.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and if you can find that person who gets it, then it just makes things slightly easier.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: It does, and you don't feel alone, yeah, because you do feel alone, yeah.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know you you talked about feeling alone in your experience, and you do, you think you're the only one on the planet, you do, but until you reach out and realise that there are so many other people out there going through it, and and I'm sure there'll be women out there listening to this and thinking maybe that happened to them, yeah, you know, um, and it's just you realise that yeah, there there are you know people out there going through it or have been through it.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, 24 years ago yeah, on the 30th of the 30th of October, and you're still speaking about her, which I just think's incredible.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're keeping her memory alive, you should be so so proud of yourself, yeah.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: So proud of yourself.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important, isn't it, to keep that going, and she's still very much part of our family, and yeah, yeah, she always will be.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean uh you spoke uh a little bit to me about um like holding grief and gratitude in your heart at the same time.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: How have you learned to live with both the loss of Sophia and the joy of raising the boys?
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: The joy uh heals the grief.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we have had you know, the boys have been my absolute world, and we have had they have been amazing.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can honestly say that they've never caused me any trouble.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, I've hardly ever had to really tell them what I've been so blessed with these boys, and and people might go, What really?
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like two boys, yeah, yeah, it would have been carnage in the house.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: But no, they have been they've been sent, I'm sure.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um the joy that they bring me and still do, I mean, they obviously they're pain in the arse sometimes, and then and still doing their washing and ironing and everything like that, but um they they bring me so much joy, we bring both of us so much joy, yeah.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that that does heal the loss and the grief, but when the grief raises its head through you know, certain days, birthdays or Christmas, yeah, you know, those kind of days, um you you do need to step away and you do need to almost have that that day of grief and sadness, yeah.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like allowing yourself to you allow yourself because allowing yourself makes it real.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you try to hide it and think, Oh, I've got to be happy and joyful and push that to one side and shove it under the rug, it never works.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you do have to have sad days, and I do have sad days.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like even my niece, like when she told me she was pregnant, I mean, I burst into tears.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm so over emotional, over-emotional, I think, because I just I just love the thought of her having a baby, like bringing a new world into the you know, a new baby into this family, and and I'm sure I'll be the same when she's born, you know, when the baby's born.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll be overly emotional.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's probably because I'm actually slightly grieving as at the same time.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: It takes you back to that time.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: It takes me back.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um say remembering Bella, how special she was to you.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not that she isn't special all the time, but in that moment when you needed her.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Back then.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like full circle moment.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: She's now having she's having her baby.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, just you know, I think when the baby's born, it's gonna be a relief, it's also gonna be joy, it's gonna be it's gonna be a trigger for sure.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: Any baby, any baby in my life is a trigger.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, doesn't matter whose baby it is, um, it's a trigger, and it always will be.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and the day I become a grandma, wow, I'm just gonna buy it.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna have to buy a bulk of tissues, I think, because I cannot wait to be a grandma, but not yet.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not yet.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um not just now, but that I'm I'm really excited about peace and quiet right now.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know I am.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: They call it the golden years, yeah.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: Not sure about that just yet, but yeah.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: Becky, my mum and dad are living their life right now, are they?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they are loving life.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we too, we we are too, yeah, definitely.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good for you.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um if another mum is listening who has experienced like baby loss, like perhaps recently or in the past, um, what would you want her to hear?
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say I would say take each day as it comes.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: You need time to process what's happened because it is probably the worst time of your life.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're gonna feel lost, you're gonna feel numb, very, very numb and very, very broken and very sad.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but with time and support with your family, it does get better, and it you never get over it, but you do learn to navigate it, yeah, and you learn to bring joy back into your life, yeah, whatever that may be, because we're all different.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I would say just yeah, just take each day as it comes, don't don't rush to be back to normal, yeah.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, be in the moment um as much as the moment is blooming hard, you know, and also reach out to other people, talk to other mums that have been through it perhaps, or speak to other people, you know, talk about it, talk about that that baby, because you know, although nobody knew her, you I knew her, she was inside me for all that time, you know, all the kicks, the hiccups, the the the feet that come out, you know, and you know, just the the motion of her being inside me is all I ever knew of her, yeah, and that's all they'll ever know of their baby, and you have to cherish that, yeah, you have to be grateful for that.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, you're still losing a life that they would have had with you, and and and that's sad, and it will always be sad, but you do learn to navigate it and live with it, and you know, the hole doesn't ever heal, but it slightly covers up, you know, the hole is there, but it but you can you can put a a sheet over it, yeah, and you can move on and you can and you can live a very happy life.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and one day, you know, I I believe that one day I will see her when my time on earth is over.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I will see her again.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you will.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: You will my last question what has motherhood taught you about yourself?
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: To be patient shame.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have to say, I probably um I probably have never known love the way I have having the boys and being a mum.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think they do test your patience, especially when they're little, but I just I've just cherished every memory because of what happened to Sophia.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've just you know enjoyed every moment and made every moment special, and I continue to do that.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I celebrate every birthday, yeah.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I always go to town on what we're gonna do and plan ahead.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And my boys always say, Mum, I don't need to do anything now, you know.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll organise it.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, I need to organize it, you know.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think celebrate every birthday, every celebration, Christmas, make it special because yeah, be with your family, you know.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've just I've just that's what I've done since then, and um it's just made me very I am a very loving person.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can see that.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: People do you know open up to me, yeah.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm sort of I'm quite um yeah, I'm proud of that really.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: You should be very proud of yourself.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very proud.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming on today.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um it will be Sophia's 24th birthday on the 30th of October.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it will be.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this episode will be released in honour of that for you.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're very welcome.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're always welcome to come back on.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Not even recording, just come around for a cup of tea.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I'm always in here for you.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm always here, but thank you so much.