Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 31 December

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 31 December · The Bolt Report

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: It's the report.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Good evening, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Nice to heavy company. I'm Kel Richards and for Andrew Bolt.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Here's what's coming up tonight. Sixteen leading Jewish organizations have
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: joined together to call for a Commonwealth Royal Commission into
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: anti Semetism. We'll talk to one of the authors of
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: their report. We'll also talk to a former judge of
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: the Federal Court of Australia who has this week been
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: arguing that there's never been a more important time for
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Australian Jews to tell their stories of anguish and fear,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and that's why we need a Commonwealth Royal commission. Plus
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: more bushfire concerns. It's summer, it's bushfire season. Reports of
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a backlog when wheinda burnoffs across states did not happen sufficiently.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about that tonight. Why haven't we learned the
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: lesson from past bushfires? And a change of pace with
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: some end of year awards for our local councils. Now
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: they're meant to stick to you know, rods, rates and rubbish.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: That's their job. But you won't believe some of the
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: bizarre decisions they've made. Actually, I think you will believe
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: it. It probably happens in your area as well. But first,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: on the last day of twenty twenty five, it makes
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: good sense to fill out a report card for our
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi, giving an evaluation of his performance
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: over the year that is just now slipping away. Well
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Albinizi would want to put at the top of his
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: report card May third, That's the day he won a
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: landslide election return to power. With such a big score
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: on his report card ninety four seats in the House
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: of Representatives, he would think he was the big winner
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five. So why is it that Australia
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: sees him as being politically speaking the big loser of
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: the year. The reason is that everything else this year
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: has been dwarfed by the most horrendous terrorist attack on
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Australian soil. Next to that, nothing else matters. And in
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: responding to that attack, Anthony Albanez he has dwindled. He
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: has shrunk down into being a tiny, terrified moral midget.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: From the very first words he uttered after the slaughter
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: of fifteen Jewish Australians at Bondai, he has sounded not
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: like a Prime minister but like a Minister for defense,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: mainly his own defense. He has been on the back foot,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: sounding defensive in every utterance since then.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: This is a time of support for the Jewish community.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: I know that overwhelmingly that is what Australians are doing.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: We need to root out any.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Evil, that is, any Semitism across the board. My government's
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: committed to do that. I know that the men's government
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: is committed to do that, and I think across the
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: board that's what Austraands want to see.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: He talks like an inter office memo, doesn't it, not
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: like a human being with real passions. Clearly, for Anthony Alberizi,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: there's only one thing that matters, namely that he doesn't
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: get the blame. The very thought of a federal national
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: royal commission into anti Semitism and radical Islamic terrorism makes
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Albanese break out in a cold sweat. He has commissioned
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: former ASIO boss Dennis Richardson to conduct a fast, limited
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: review into law enforcement and intelligence agencies, and the brief
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: of that review does not mention the word antisemitism, not once.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Richardson is not allowed to look at anti Semitism that
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: is forbidden by Alberizi's terms of reference and why by
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: this refusal to properly examine anti Semitism in Australia and
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the response of every level of government to anti Semitism,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: because Alberonize is terrified it would expose his own abject
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: level of failure. As anti Semitism paraded in our streets
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: charting out slogans of hate. How many times was our
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: prime minister warned of the possibility of violence against Jews?
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That's what he wants to keep secret? And how often
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: did he act on such warnings? The optics, as they
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: say in politics, are terrible. He appears to have completely
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: failed the Jewish community. After the ugly display a vicious
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: hatred of Jews on the steps of the Sydney Operas
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: in October October ninth, twenty twenty three, how many people
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: were arrested? Oh, that's right, none? How many were charged? None?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: What did Alberoneze do? Nothing much? He stayed on the
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: campaign trial, He failed to call an immediate meeting of
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: the National Security Council, He failed to recall Parliament. He
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: failed to strengthen laws to stop such hate on our streets.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: In short, he just failed. And now that the worst
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: terrorist attack in Australian history has happened. He is fighting
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: tooth and nail to stop the depth of his failure
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: being exposed by a federal National Royal Commission. There are
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: those among us who have regarded Anti Albanize basically a
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: week in decisive man for a fair while. Now I
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: suspect now he looks weaker than ever. So what does
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: this mean for his report card? What does it mean
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: for his place in the history books, what does it
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: mean for his record as an Australian Prime minister. The
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: answer is that this weakness, this failure, wipes out everything else.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: It's unlike any other tragedy in Australian history. What happened
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: on December fourteenth is unlike Port Arthur. There was no
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: possibility of the Port Arthur mass shooting big on anyone's
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: radar two years before it happened. Couldn't have They couldn't
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: have been the case. Same is true of floods and bushfires.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: No two year warning given. But Anthony Albanesi was given
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: a two year warning of the slaughter of Jews at Bondai,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: and he ignored that warning. In October of twenty twenty three,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: he knew there were radical Islamists on the streets celebrating
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: the killing of one thy two hundred Jews by a mass,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: celebrating the rape and butchery of Jewish women, celebrating the
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: kidnapping of two hundred and fifty one Jewish hostages. The
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: ugly anti Semitic violence of the mass was celebrated on
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: the streets of Australian cities two years before the terrorists
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: open fire on Jews at Bondai. And during that entire
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: intervening two year period, Anthony Alberzi was warned repeatedly by
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Jewish leaders that the hatred and the persecution was becoming
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: steadily more intense. He was repeatedly warned that violence was inevitable.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And these warnings weren't just in words, they were in vicious,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: hate filled graffiti, in fire bombings. The warning signs were
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: there over and over and over again. And what did
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Albanese do, Well, apparently he did nothing. And that's what
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: a federal National Raw Commission would expose. That's what this frightened,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: weak little man wants to hide from you. His entire reputation,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: his entire standing, is now crumbling before our eyes. He's
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: lost the goodwill of all decent Australians. He's lost the
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: respect of all thinking Australians. He was the Prime Minister
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: during explosion in anti Semitism that ended in fifteen deaths.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: He now looks to the eyes of Australian voters not
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: like a leader, but like a weak, bumbling bureaucrat who
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: talks like an inter office memo, who dodges and diverts,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: and ducks and weaves and utters platitudes and can't be trusted.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: This is a moment for national unity. This is a
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: moment for Australians to come together. That's precisely what we
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: will be doing.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: What is the final mark on Anthony Alberanese's report card
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: for twenty twenty five. It is a single letter of
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: the alphabet, the letter F for failed. Now to the
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: remarkable joint statement issued overnight by sixteen leading Jewish groups
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: around Australia. It's a united call for a Commonwealth Royal
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Commission into antisemitism, arguing the Bondi terror attack has exposed
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the deadly consequences of years of escalating, unchecked anti Semitic incitement. Now,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: while acknowledging recent government actions, the joint statement warns these
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: measures fail, they fail to confront the systemic causes of
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: anti Semitism now entrenched across Australian society. And I'm pleased
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: to say, one of the co signers, Joel Bernie, joins me. Now, Joel,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: why is this united front so important? Why now pushed
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: so hard for a Commonwealth Royal Commission?
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you very much for having me. A Happy
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: New Year to you and all of your viewers this evening. Well,
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: it's so important to have this united front because we
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: are all united in our message. We have been warning
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: the government and that the unchecked vitriol and hateful rhetoric
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: on the streets of Australia that we've witnessed since the
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: massacre of October seven, twenty twenty three, was always going
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: to lead to violence. Now, given the fact that we're
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: so public with our opinions of that over the past
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: two years, that it's clearly on the record, you'd expect
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: that the government would be starting to listen to the
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: Jewish community. That unfortunately turned out to be correct, with
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: fifteen innocent people being the unfortunate result of what appears
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: to be a catastrophic failure at an intelligence level, a
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: catastrophic failure at government level, and a catastrophic failure and
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: enforcement level. So given the context of where we're at now,
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: it's not surprising, but it's immensely frustrating. They're given every
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: that we've told them that was going to happen, given
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: the fact that they did very little to nothing to
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: stop it from happening, and the fact that it happened
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: and we turned out to be correct. The government is
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: now telling us that we're not the expert, so we
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: don't really know what we need for ourselves. He knows
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: better than what we do, and that's why he consistently
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: resists the call and a united call from the Jewish
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: community for a Commonwealth role commission into anti Semitism.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Now, the Richardson Review will look at photos in intelligence
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and enforcement. What it won't look at is motivation. It
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: won't look at anti Semitism, it won't look at radical ismism.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Now does that concern you, well.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: Of course, Look, Dennis Richardson is an esteemed Australian who's
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: had many, many decades of distinguished service and is very
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: very good that he is. I think he's advising. I
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: don't know. I think the Prime Minister and Cabinet's Office
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: is the one leading the charge on this, so it's
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: an internal review from the Prime Minister's own offer, where
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Dennis Richardson is in an advisory capacity. But I think
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: that that is important and it is important to find
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: out from an intelligence point of view as to the
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: catastrophic failures that happened on the day, how did these
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: two radicalize terrorists slip through the net. So I think
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: that it's very important to get to the bottom of that. However,
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: this was attacked by two Islamus terrorists on a group
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: of Jews, and it is important that after two years
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: of an explosion of antisemitism that created the atmosphere for
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: this terror attack to occur in Wondai Beach, and we
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: need to get to the bottom of it. As a nation.
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: This is no longer a Jewish problem. This is an
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: Australian problem. And this is why in your previous statements
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: you were giving the Prime Minister an F grade because
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: he's failing the Australian people. This was the largest terror
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: attack in Australia's history. This was not an attack on
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: Australian Jews. This was an attack on Australia and it
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: requires a deep investigation outside of the remit of gun
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: government to find out exactly what went wrong, and that
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: includes a Commonwealth Royal Commission, not just investigating what happened
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: on the day, but looking into systemic antisemitism and due
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: hatred in this country.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Well, Joel, why is it? I mean, he's stonewalling. He
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: is stonewalling, he's digging his heels in. He is absolutely
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: resistant to this. Have you got any theories as to
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: why he is so opposed to this?
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Well, I think that the commentary by others is quite
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: as stud I think that the chronology of a royal
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: commission will indeed take time. But let's just unpack one
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: of the three main excuses that the Prime Ministry has given. Firstly,
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: the time delayed. He can do whatever he wants to
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: do on a legislative front concurrently with a royal commission.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: A Royle commission does not impede any of the other
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: initiatives that he has on a legislative front. Announce, so
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: he can go and change whatever legislation or amen whatever
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: speech legislation he would like, but he can do that
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: at the same time as the Royal commission. So that's
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: one excuse that and hold water. The other one to say,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: to save the Jewish community from platforming you know some
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: of the most vicious anti Seamites is just ridiculous. Now
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: he's resistant because, as the commentator suggests, there is something
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: to hide, and I would suggest given the recent comments
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: of the president of the ALP in Wayne Swan after
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: the tribute a week after the terror attack, plus many
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: other high profile ALP members who are on the record
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: with rather antagonistic and objectionable views not just on Israel's
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: supporters but also Jewish people, I think that if you
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: lift the rug under the ALP, you're definitely going to
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: find something. So it appears to not just us in
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: the community, but the Australian public in general, that the
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: Prime Minister's very very strong hesitation to do what not
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: just the Jews want, but a large swath of the
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: Australian public wants to avoid it suggests that he has
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: something in d to hide.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Very quickly, Joel, should Australian, all Australian Jordan Australians get
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: behind this just by sending emails to their local federal
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: member of Parliament and saying yes, this is what we want.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Would that help.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: Do you think absolutely every federal politician, especially laid the
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: government politicians need to know that this is an Australian
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: problem that needs to be tackled by a royal commission.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: All Australians need to get on board on this.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Ok. Well there you are, there you I viewer. That's
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: the task that we all have. Joel, thank you very
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: much for your time. Let's turn now to Judge Ronald Sackville,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: a judge at the Federal Court of Australia from nineteen
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: ninety four to two thousand and eight, who yesterday wrote
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: a piece in The Australian that argued that only a
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Commonwealth Royal Commission could expose the full scale of anti
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Semitism in Australia. He said the failures that led to
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the Bondai massacre and Albanese's refusal is deepening national disunity.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Judge Sackville, good evening, welcome to the program.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: Good evening, Thank you for having me. And I'm no
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: longer a judge, but.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: That's fine in that case. Ronald Sackville, can I ask
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: you that's perfect? Can I ask you, as a lawyer,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: what is it that a Commonwealth Royal Commission can do that, say,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: the Richardson Review can't do.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Well, as your previous speaker, Joel said.
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: The Richardson Review is concerned with a very specific aspect
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: of what has happened, investigating what have obviously been fairly
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: profound failures that led to the massacre that took place
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: on the fourteenth of December. That review clearly can't examine
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: the issue of antisemitism as a whole.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: My starting point for all of.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: This is that we are going to have a new
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: South Wales Royal Commission. A Premier of New South Wales
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: has said that once you've got a new South Wales
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: Royal Commission, there seems to be no rational reason to
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: confine a royal commission to the state of New South Wales.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Antisemitism does not stop on the northern boundary of the
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: Murray Rios or halfway across the runway.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: At koul and Gattter Airport.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: It's obviously a national problem what has happened in Victoria
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: in relation to antisemitism, and not just the fire bombings
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: and all the really dreadful things that have occurred in
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: that sense, but antisemitism inflicted on the community as a
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: whole deserves to be investigated, and more importantly, in a way,
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: the people who have experienced antisemitism deserve to have their
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: say in a royal commission. They can do so safely
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: and with support. The idea that the government is trying
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: to protect them from being retraumatized strikes me as really
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: quite ridiculous, and only a national Royal Commission can investigate
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: the broader issues that are so terribly important, both of
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: the Jewish community and the broader community.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: One of the points that you made in your article
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: was there is a residue of expertise in the Comwath
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: public service. They've run a lot of Royal commissions in
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: the past. They know the mechanism. There are people there
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: who know how to make it work. That's important, isn't it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: It is important. I actually was the chair of the
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: Disability Royal Commission that ran from twenty nineteen to twenty
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: twenty three. I therefore observed at very close quarters how
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: the Attorney General's Department, through the Royal Commission's branch, can
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: set up a Royal commission very swiftly, can provide it
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: with the resources that are required and the support. That
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: kind of support is absolutely essential to have a Royal
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: Commission of the magnitude that would be required. That doesn't
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: mean that a Royal Commission is necessarily going to take
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: the four years that the Disability Royal Commission talk. Of course,
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: it can be for a shorter period, but it does
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: have to examine the broader issues.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: And it has the power to do so.
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: Even the Richardson Inquiry will not have powers of compulsion,
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: for example, to require Commonwealth agencies to provide reports in
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: writing that if necessary, can be made public by the
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: Royal Commission and expose the difficulties that do need to
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: be addressed.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: And so I understand the robot did Royal Commission only
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: ran for ten months, So in other words, they don't
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: need to run for years, do they.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: They don't necessarily need to run for years.
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: The broader the terms of reference, then obviously the longer
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: the period that is required. The Disability Royal Commission, as
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: it happens, had extremely broad terms of reference and we
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: were affected, among other things, of course by COVID that
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: made life very difficult for about two years.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: So no Royal.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: Commission is capable of being completed within a shorter time
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: than that, And moreover, it can produce interim reports. In
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: the disability Royal Commission produced a substantial number of interim reports,
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: some of which contained recommendations that were in fact implemented
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: during the course of the Royal Commission itself.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: And is it important that the hearings are public, that
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: we as the Australian people know what's going on.
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: That's absolutely essential. It's a critical part of a Royal Commission. Obviously,
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: there can be evidence on certain matters that involve national
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: security that might require the Commission to keep that material secret.
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: There is also provision in the legislation. If there are
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: recommendations that expose someone to a criminal prosecution, it may
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: be that the Royal Commission produces a report that is
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: confidential in parts so as not to prejudice or contemplated
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: criminal proceedings.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: But overall it's absolutely imperative that the proceedings take place
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: in public.
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: It's imperative in this case that the Australian community at
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: large understands what has happened in this country, particularly over
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: the last two years, but even before that. That's an
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: absolutely critical part of a national Royal pal commission and
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: it's what this country, in my opinion, desperately needs.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: And in the opinion of many other people. Ronald Sackville,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: thank you very much for your time. Tonight's the right.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: That's a great legal mind telling Albanizie what he should
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: actually be doing. So many people are saying it now,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: including some great think is how long can he go
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: on with this? How long can he go on stonewalling?
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I mean we have to keep the pressure up so
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: that in the end he crumbles and he agrees. Well,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: coming up New Year's eves upon us. That means people
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: like the paramedics are going to be out there because
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: people have accidents, people are hurt, and we are told
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: that they are now being exposed to violence as they're
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: doing their job. Plus who comes top of the bolls
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: for a two multuous year in politics, You won't be surprised.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: But the answer is coming up next. Welcome back now.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Agreeing that the level of violence in Australian society has
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: tragically increased over US lifetimes, you'd think there'd be some
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: people who'd be safe, wouldn't you. Ambulance officers, paramedics, people
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: who were just there trying to help the hurting. But no,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Apparently they are also victims of an epidemic of violence.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Senior Ambulance Victoria leaders say the past month has been
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: the worst month they have seen in decades for violence.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Crews warned that abuses leaving paramedics traumatized and increasingly forced
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: to withdraw from unsafe scenes, leaving behind possibly their patients,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: threatening frontline emergency response now here to discuss this and
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: discuss some other topics as well. Research fellow at the
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Institute of Public Affairs, Colin Harken, Colen, good evening, Welcome.
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: To the program, Good evening, Thank you.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Now, surely we had respect in the past, in decades past,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: we had respect for emergency workers. Has that now broken down?
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: Well, unfortunately since COVID there has been a decline in
• 21:59
  Speaker 7: respect for authority and a decrease in trust for those
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: in uniform and trust in our institutions. But paramedics are
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: you know, they're at the front line. They're there to
• 22:11
  Speaker 7: help us at our most vulnerable times.
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: They're often the.
• 22:15
  Speaker 7: First on the scene before the police arrive, you know,
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: in uncontrolled and volatile situations. So it's really very alarming
• 22:24
  Speaker 7: to hear that every fifteen hours or so one of
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: the paramedics is assaulted.
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: It's an alarming statistic.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not a Victorian, but tell me, in Victoria, is
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: there not a law that makes a sort of an
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: ambo a special offense.
• 22:41
  Speaker 7: Well, this is an interesting situation because assault of an
• 22:45
  Speaker 7: emergency services worker has the capacity to be a Category
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: one offense, which brings with a jail time. So we
• 22:52
  Speaker 7: actually have the legislation in place for the consequences.
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: To be there.
• 22:56
  Speaker 7: But like a number of other areas, in the situation
• 22:59
  Speaker 7: of Victoria, we've been soft on crime and unsocial, anti social,
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: dangerous and violent behavior has been allowed to fester. So
• 23:09
  Speaker 7: again we've seen a situation in Victoria where we have
• 23:12
  Speaker 7: the legislation but it's not being implemented.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So it's part of the crime crisis currently in folding Victoria.
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: Look, Victoria, you know my home's dat is a bit
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: of a basket case.
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: I have to say.
• 23:27
  Speaker 7: Our crime is out of control home invasions. We've had year,
• 23:31
  Speaker 7: weekend on weekend of you know, really intimidating protests on
• 23:37
  Speaker 7: the street. The average person in Victoria genuinely feels very
• 23:41
  Speaker 7: rattled and unsettled and not safe in our own homes.
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: Literally.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Let's turn to the subject of artificial intelligence, because everyone's
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: talking about it these days were fed up with seeing
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: the initials AI in headlines. But well it's to stay
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: in Victoria because the Victorian government is saying they would
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: have become the hosts to major AI data centers. Now,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: the thing about these data centers is they are huge
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: buildings with massive data stores, massive service there which generate
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of heat. They're water cooled, they take a
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: lot of water and huge amounts of power. Now can Victoria,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: with the problems it has with power support that kind
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: of industry they think they can support.
• 24:23
  Speaker 7: Well not at the moment. Victoria wouldn't be able to
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: these AI data centers. Let's if you're really clear. We
• 24:31
  Speaker 7: need to have them, right, there is no question that
• 24:34
  Speaker 7: that is the future and we.
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: Must have them.
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: But they are incredibly energy intensive and they require twenty
• 24:41
  Speaker 7: four to seven reliable power, neither of which renewals can provide.
• 24:47
  Speaker 7: So we've got this situation where what we must have
• 24:50
  Speaker 7: is there's a complete disconnect between the government's ideological pursuit
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: and the reality of what's required for the future of
• 24:59
  Speaker 7: the energy of requirements that we have. We've been promised
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: cheaper and reliable energy for a long time. The lived
• 25:05
  Speaker 7: experience everybody knows that that is simply not the case.
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: It's not everybody's experience.
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: And just as a sort of an analogy, if we
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: had a clear pathway under regulation for the development of
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: these data centers, it would take let's just sort of say,
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: maybe four or five years.
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: If we had the same regulatory.
• 25:25
  Speaker 7: Clear pathway for small modular reactors for example, that would
• 25:28
  Speaker 7: provide the energy for the data centers, it wouldn't be
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: much more. So, you know, we need to get on
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: board with what's required here. We need we need reliable,
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: affordable energy, we need coal.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Practical action.
• 25:42
  Speaker 7: Are practical action absolutely otherwise we will be left behind
• 25:47
  Speaker 7: quite literally.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Now another topic I wanted to talk to you about.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: There's new Resolve polling which shows that Portline Handso and
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Barnaby Joys have recorded some of the biggest jumps in
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: personal likability any federal politicians have had writing a broader
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: lift in support for what we might call the outsider
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: figures ahead of twenty twenty six. So what does this
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: tell us? Is this just then? Is this just Pauline
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: and Barnaby because they're such distinctive figures, such good retail politicians,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: or is it more than that is it a warning
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: to the major parties.
• 26:22
  Speaker 7: Well, I think it's definitely a warning to the major parties.
• 26:25
  Speaker 7: I mean people are leaving the major parties in drives.
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: Their statistics are really quite low. I think the Coalitions
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: on about twenty three percent primary and Labor's only on
• 26:34
  Speaker 7: about thirty two percent primary. They're pretty low figures in
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: and of themselves. Whether that sustainable or not yet is
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: yet to be seen, but it is most definitely a
• 26:44
  Speaker 7: warning to the conservative particularly side of politics. It will
• 26:48
  Speaker 7: also remain to be seen, for example, if Susan Lay
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: holds the leadership and if a more conservative leader, for
• 26:54
  Speaker 7: example like Hasty, were to take over, whether the One
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: Nation would sort of sort of subside a little bit
• 27:04
  Speaker 7: or not. So it's early days yet. They're on about
• 27:07
  Speaker 7: just under twenty percent of primary vote, which is hugely significant.
• 27:11
  Speaker 7: And in Victoria next year they're going to run a
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: candidate in every seat, so that will be quite telling.
• 27:17
  Speaker 7: But it is most definitely people are moving away from
• 27:19
  Speaker 7: the major parties.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Indeed, the Colleen, many thanks for your time, many thanks
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: for your thoughts. Now it would be wishful thinking, of course,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: that in twenty twenty five local governments around Australia would
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: stick to the basics. Roads rates rubbish, that's their job. Alas,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: there have been plenty of bizarre, let's say, stupid decisions
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: made by councils as they continue to push into broader
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: political matters, and here to dish the dirt on local
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: government and with the Stupidity Awards for twenty twenty five,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: organization called Council wash Watch presents these awards to local councils.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: The president of council watches Dean Hurlston. Dean, welcome to
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the program. Let's go through the awards. She council has
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: got an award for work Safe Fail, the work Shafe
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Fail award. How did they earn that? Dean?
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 28:08
  Speaker 8: So the minister stood down the mayor based on a
• 28:12
  Speaker 8: bunch of code of conduct in relation to staff safety.
• 28:15
  Speaker 8: A two and a half million dollar inquiry later and
• 28:18
  Speaker 8: there were no incidents found. What a waste of time,
• 28:22
  Speaker 8: waste of money. Now the mayor's suing.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Minister right in Victoria, Wyndham Council gets a gone, what
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: do they get it going for?
• 28:30
  Speaker 8: Yeah, cash Fern of the year, a seventy million dollar
• 28:33
  Speaker 8: it project that was put in the bin and the
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: money flushed down the toilet.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Oh dear me, Dean A council in North Sydney. They
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: have splashed out money and they are now getting an
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: award for what the pool with the million dollar views.
• 28:48
  Speaker 9: Yes, North Sydney Council promised a thirty million dollar pool.
• 28:52
  Speaker 8: The bill came in at one hundred and twenty two million.
• 28:55
  Speaker 8: I don't know about you, but that's a lot of champagne.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: It is. Indeed. Now also Burandara, they were involved in
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: a construction ofum An aquatic Center and they ran into problems.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: So what award do they get tonight?
• 29:08
  Speaker 8: Yes, Burundara gets the Steel Champion Council of the Year
• 29:11
  Speaker 8: award for spending or trying to spend seventy three million
• 29:14
  Speaker 8: dollars on their aquatic center. The Chinese steel in court
• 29:18
  Speaker 8: at the moment builder and councils suing each other. The
• 29:21
  Speaker 8: roof fell down because the steel wasn't steel.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Really, Okay, that's pretty bad. What about Marrabeck Council Now
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: you're giving them an award for activism? I would have
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: thought there were a lot of activist councils in Australia.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: What did they do to win this one?
• 29:38
  Speaker 8: Mary Beck and Darriman actually continue to fly at the
• 29:41
  Speaker 8: Palestinian flag and they deferred their decisions until next year.
• 29:46
  Speaker 8: They won't take them down despite repeated calls from.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: The Jewish community.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: That's amazing, beautiful nurser in Queensland scoops the AI Award.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: What did they do to win that one?
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: This one's great. You know we're just talking about AI
• 29:59
  Speaker 8: with poly Then the AI Innovation Award is that the
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: council in Noosa a staff was stammed by AI and
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: flushed two point three million dollars public money.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, and there's a councilor in Western Australia who's sort
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: of time to take his last drink. So I think
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: tell me the story, Yes, the.
• 30:20
  Speaker 9: Story of an unnamed counselor all through the headlines in
• 30:23
  Speaker 9: w Away expensed his drinks built from a strip club,
• 30:28
  Speaker 9: claiming that he didn't realize it was a strip club,
• 30:30
  Speaker 9: yet every image made it very clear in.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: You where he was, well, Dean, Yes, you're going to
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: imagine saying I just didn't notice they were taking off
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: their clothes or was amazing, Dean Hurlston. They have richly
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: earned these awards. Thank you for presenting them. And I
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: hope local governments do a bit better in twenty twenty six,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: but I'm not counting on it. Let's be honest. Coming
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: up a time we remind a reminder was summer in
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: full swing. This is the bush fire season and it
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: could be a bad one. More about that after this
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: welcome back summer is the bushfire season and it could
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: be a bad one. Let me remind you of something
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: that a lot of people have forgotten. During the dreadful
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Black Saturday bushfires in Victoria, one one hundred and seventy
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: three people died, hundreds of homes were destroyed, thousands of
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: acres were destroyed, but importantly, one hundred and seventy three
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Australian lives were lost. Bushfires are important. After those back
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Black Saturday bushfires, there was a Royal commission in Victoria
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: and they came up with recommendations, one of the most
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: important ones of which was fuel reduction. All the rubbish
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: on the floor of the bush, all the dead leaves
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: in the bark, and the twigs and all the rest
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: of it. That is fuel. That's what fuels the fire,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: where bush fire gets starting. If you reduce that, this
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: is what backburning does. This is what fire prevention does,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: getting rid of that fuel. They recommend at a certain
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: level of it. Apparently it hasn't been done. About half
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: of the amount recommended by the Royal Commission has been
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: under taken, only half, and a lot of those recommendations
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: and mitigations that have been suggested are not being undertaken now.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: The Howard Society earlier this year warned there have been
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: far fewer burnoffs and other mitigation measures since labor has
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: been in power in Victoria in twenty fourteen, and that
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: has set the scene for the kind of disaster, for example,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: we saw in Los Angeles just recently. Gary Squire's is
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: the secretary of the Howard Society, which is a society
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: made up of experienced land and fire management experts, and
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: he joins me, Now, Gary, these recommendations in a Royal
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Commission are really important. How can they be set aside?
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: How can they just be ignored like this? Yeah? Was
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: you right?
• 32:45
  Speaker 10: The recommendation was a minimum of five percent of the
• 32:47
  Speaker 10: forest areas should be burnt annually and for a couple
• 32:52
  Speaker 10: of years. The government accepted that recommendation, then did an
• 32:56
  Speaker 10: internal review and decided that it was too hard and
• 33:00
  Speaker 10: they would go to a different model, which was called
• 33:04
  Speaker 10: safer together, and the achievements since then have been about
• 33:09
  Speaker 10: one point three percent per annum of the forest has
• 33:12
  Speaker 10: been burned, way below what is necessary.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Explain to us the concept of fuel load mapping. What
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: is fuel load mapping? Why is it important?
• 33:22
  Speaker 10: Fuel load mapping is simply working out which parts of
• 33:26
  Speaker 10: the forest have got what quantity of fuel on them
• 33:29
  Speaker 10: and directing your burning to those areas where you can
• 33:34
  Speaker 10: have the best effect. The current policy says, let's direct
• 33:39
  Speaker 10: most of the effort close to assets, and we certainly
• 33:45
  Speaker 10: agree with that in the Howard society. But what isn't
• 33:49
  Speaker 10: happening is the burning over the broad area of the forests.
• 33:53
  Speaker 10: And so what happens when you get a fire such
• 33:55
  Speaker 10: as the one was depicted a minute ago, It throws
• 34:00
  Speaker 10: spot by many, many kilometers in front of the main
• 34:03
  Speaker 10: fire under intense and tense fire conditions and windy conditions,
• 34:09
  Speaker 10: and so the small burns that are done close to
• 34:12
  Speaker 10: settlements are not very useful because the fire spots struck
• 34:17
  Speaker 10: straight over them. And this was the classic example of
• 34:20
  Speaker 10: what happened in the town of Malakuda in twenty twenty.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Now is There also an issue to do with how
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: close dwellings are built to the bush. I know that
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: some councils with a lot of green members on the
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: council wanted homeowners not to reduce the bush coverage around
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: their homes and in their backyards in their properties. But
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: surely that kind of reduction having the bush and the
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: trees not too close to dwellings, surely that's a major issue,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: is it not.
• 34:50
  Speaker 10: Certainly the areas that are most at risk across the
• 34:53
  Speaker 10: state of Victoria are those on the fringes of large
• 35:00
  Speaker 10: forested areas, whether that be in Melbourne, around Melbourne or
• 35:05
  Speaker 10: where to be around rural townships, and the homes that
• 35:11
  Speaker 10: are built right on those fringes are certainly at risk.
• 35:15
  Speaker 10: And that's where some of the effort needs to go,
• 35:17
  Speaker 10: and that's that's accepted. But there's also needs to be
• 35:21
  Speaker 10: this burning deep in the bush as well to give
• 35:25
  Speaker 10: that cover, which was naturally done by lightning strikes and
• 35:29
  Speaker 10: First Nations burning in the past.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I had an expert on my radio show once years
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: ago tell me that in Australia, gum trees are basically
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: incendiary devices waiting to explode the moment they get hot enough.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, is that dramatizing it or is that feeling realistic?
• 35:46
  Speaker 10: It's a little bit dramatic. I mean the litter on
• 35:49
  Speaker 10: the on the ground is what fuels the fire initially.
• 35:54
  Speaker 10: Under extreme conditions, the litter and the scrub layer can
• 36:00
  Speaker 10: heat the tree, the leaves of the euclid trees to
• 36:04
  Speaker 10: the stage where they will also burn, and that's called
• 36:08
  Speaker 10: a crown fire. That's the thing that happens under extreme conditions.
• 36:13
  Speaker 10: And that's why fuel is the biggest issue. People say
• 36:19
  Speaker 10: climate change is the issue. Well, climate determines weather, that
• 36:23
  Speaker 10: fuel determines how hot a fire will be.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: We can't we can't make the government do what it
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: should be doing, and if they're not doing it, they're
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: not doing it. Are there things we can do if
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: we have homes which are close to bushland? There are
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: ways that we can make our homes safe. Are there
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: ways we can clear our homes, our roofs are whatever?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: What's what's the best advice? Gary?
• 36:45
  Speaker 10: Absolutely, Look, the CFA are the best authority to talk
• 36:50
  Speaker 10: to about how to protect your homes, and they've got
• 36:53
  Speaker 10: lots of really good publications. But the major issue is
• 36:57
  Speaker 10: cleaning up debris on because that's what's going to fuel
• 37:02
  Speaker 10: the fire.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Yep. Okay, So the stuff that gathers on the garden,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: all the leaves that fall, get rid of them, the
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: ones in the gutter, get rid of them. Gary, thank
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: you for being with us tonight and thank you for
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: alerting us to the risk which is there. So there
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: you are. The governments are not doing what they're doing.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: We can do what we do and let's hope it
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: is not a bad some of for bushfires. Okay. Coming
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: up after the break, we're going to take a look
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: at what's making news around the world with our international panel.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: That's next. Welcome back, and we bring in our New
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Year's Eve international panel. Sky News contributor to Kosher Garda
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: and former labor in Michael Danby, both of you, welcome
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: to the program. Front and center in world news at
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: the moment must be Ukraine. We've had yet another meeting
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: between Vlado, Meszelensky and Trump, this time in mary Lago,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: and on the same day Trump spoke to Putin. Trump
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: keeps saying, oh, yes, we're getting closer, We're getting closer.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: But he was saying how this was to settle long
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: before he was elected president. So Michael, Is there any
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: sign that there's really peace approaching for Ukraine or is
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: it as far away as ever?
• 38:12
  Speaker 11: If Putin agrees to a cease fire, that'll be a
• 38:15
  Speaker 11: sign that there is a possibility of peace. Donald Trump
• 38:19
  Speaker 11: agreed to visit the Ukrainian Rada, that's their parliaments in Kiev.
• 38:24
  Speaker 11: Be very unusual because Steve Whitkoff or none of the
• 38:27
  Speaker 11: American negotiators have actually visited Ukraine country who they want
• 38:31
  Speaker 11: to give away parts of. So all of that is
• 38:34
  Speaker 11: a good sign, But the real fear is the Russian leader.
• 38:40
  Speaker 11: He has this reventious view that Ukraine and other parts
• 38:45
  Speaker 11: of Eastern Europe are part of the Russian Empire. And
• 38:49
  Speaker 11: you know, one doesn't know if this is just designed
• 38:52
  Speaker 11: to elngate the negotiations to help him with his military
• 38:56
  Speaker 11: campaign on the ground.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Kosher. In fact, if you look at Putin, looks like
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: someone who doesn't want peace, doesn't need peace, He thinks
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: he can just keep going as he is.
• 39:07
  Speaker 12: He Certainly some.
• 39:09
  Speaker 13: Would say maybe it was a strategic miscalculation on his part,
• 39:12
  Speaker 13: because nobody four years ago was sitting and expecting it
• 39:14
  Speaker 13: would last as long as it has.
• 39:16
  Speaker 12: We're now closing in on four years.
• 39:17
  Speaker 13: However, the strategic interest to him and to Russia remains
• 39:22
  Speaker 13: very strong, and that's why I think he seems to
• 39:24
  Speaker 13: be very willing to continue. He has said territorial concessions
• 39:28
  Speaker 13: or a Nogo he will not budge on that point.
• 39:30
  Speaker 13: We'll see how the story ends, but that's been the
• 39:32
  Speaker 13: line coming out of Moscow, and he's got a lot
• 39:35
  Speaker 13: of manpower and a lot of strategic interest, so he
• 39:38
  Speaker 13: seems to be doing this. I think the sticking point
• 39:40
  Speaker 13: in the latest news that came out back home in
• 39:42
  Speaker 13: the US is the security guarantee, and there's been conflicting
• 39:46
  Speaker 13: reporting on what was agreed, what was not agreed.
• 39:49
  Speaker 12: Are there term limits? Are they're not term limits?
• 39:50
  Speaker 13: That is something that is very problematic for the administration
• 39:54
  Speaker 13: because a lot of their base does not like it,
• 39:56
  Speaker 13: and so that's sort of a needle that they are
• 39:57
  Speaker 13: trying to thread right now.
• 39:59
  Speaker 11: The problem kill is if they do agree to a
• 40:01
  Speaker 11: territorial exchange, the Ukrainians will have to give up part
• 40:04
  Speaker 11: of their fortified zone and a couple of cities where
• 40:07
  Speaker 11: there are tens of thousands of people who are living. Now,
• 40:10
  Speaker 11: you'd understand that no one wants to live under a
• 40:13
  Speaker 11: Russian boot. So that exchange is going to be very
• 40:16
  Speaker 11: difficult for the Ukrainians to do.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: And if they don't do it, what sort of pressure
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: can be put on putin to change the way You're thinking.
• 40:25
  Speaker 11: Well, the Americans could do with the eighty five members
• 40:29
  Speaker 11: of the US Senate are begging the president to do,
• 40:32
  Speaker 11: and that's put tough economic sanctions, particularly on oil. Russian
• 40:37
  Speaker 11: economy is crippled at the moment. He's lost more than
• 40:39
  Speaker 11: a million men. I mean, he may say it's a
• 40:41
  Speaker 11: strategic advantage to him, but he's a strategic genius if
• 40:45
  Speaker 11: he thinks a million people killed or wounded, a crippled
• 40:47
  Speaker 11: economy and Russia's dirty name all over the world of
• 40:52
  Speaker 11: advantage to Russia. So I think more American pressure on
• 40:56
  Speaker 11: the oil trade, in particular with China and India would
• 40:59
  Speaker 11: really cut this thing by halfway through next year.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's turn our focus now to Venezuela. The relations
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: between Venezuela and the United States almost don't exist. I mean,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: there's act bitterness between them between Maduro and Trump, and
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Trump is convinced that he needs to get rid of
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: the leader of Venezuela and reportedly, the CIA has carried
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: out a drone strike on a port facility in Venezuela,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: which is the first time they've done a strike on land.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Up until now, it's been boats kosher your thoughts on
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 41:33
  Speaker 13: It is certainly an escalation because, as you say, call
• 41:35
  Speaker 13: it is the first time that they're now into the
• 41:37
  Speaker 13: territory of Venezuela. There's two threads, or two layers to
• 41:40
  Speaker 13: the story. On the surface, ostensibly it is about the
• 41:42
  Speaker 13: drug problem. Fentanyl is a huge, huge issue, and other
• 41:45
  Speaker 13: drug classes, but especially fentanyl. It's the number one killer
• 41:48
  Speaker 13: of men under the age of forty five in America.
• 41:50
  Speaker 13: It's a big problem, and this is what that's about.
• 41:52
  Speaker 13: That's certainly the surface story that they've been saying. But
• 41:55
  Speaker 13: there is a second layer to it where a lot
• 41:57
  Speaker 13: of people are questioning the veracity of that because Venezuela
• 42:01
  Speaker 13: is not the hub of the fntional trade.
• 42:02
  Speaker 12: It is Mexico and the Mexican cartels.
• 42:04
  Speaker 13: Some of it does come through their Colombian cocaine often
• 42:07
  Speaker 13: travels through Venezuela, but also through other countries, and so
• 42:10
  Speaker 13: the worry is is this about regime change, given that
• 42:13
  Speaker 13: bitterness with Maduro and the strategic problems that they've had
• 42:17
  Speaker 13: with that regime, and that is something that again Trump's
• 42:19
  Speaker 13: base has no appetite for it. They really don't want
• 42:22
  Speaker 13: to engage in regime change. And so that's kind of
• 42:24
  Speaker 13: what people are passing through back home. How much of
• 42:26
  Speaker 13: it is about the drugs? How much of it is
• 42:28
  Speaker 13: about something else deeper?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Michael? Could this be partly Trump wanting to exercise American
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: power over what he sees is his hemisphere the Americas.
• 42:39
  Speaker 11: Well, it's the Monroe doctrine reinvented, and I think their
• 42:43
  Speaker 11: Republican base is very bifurcated over this. So I mean
• 42:47
  Speaker 11: all of the people who from Latin America, the Cubans
• 42:51
  Speaker 11: and the Venezuelans, et cetera, will be egging the Republicans
• 42:56
  Speaker 11: on to try and take this undemocratically imposed leader out.
• 43:01
  Speaker 11: And if you can do it without a land invasion.
• 43:03
  Speaker 11: It's the same as in Ukraine, supplying weapons or using
• 43:06
  Speaker 11: your own weapons to affect a regime that is killing
• 43:10
  Speaker 11: tens of thousands of Americans. As Kosher said, with fentanyl, logically,
• 43:16
  Speaker 11: who could be against it except for the Tucker Carlson's
• 43:20
  Speaker 11: and the Candor soans of this world that see conspiracy
• 43:23
  Speaker 11: in everything to force America into on the ground conflicts.
• 43:28
  Speaker 11: It's not an on the ground conflict.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Indeed, let's turn to the Middle East. Israel has suspended
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: more than two dozen humanitarian organizations, not allowing them now
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: to service Gaza, including Doctors Without Borders, the Care Organization. Now,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: as I understand it, these organizations refuse to provide it
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: any sort of evidence that they were not connected to
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Hamas in any way or not supporting Hamas in any way.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Can you explain the background there force Kosher?
• 43:58
  Speaker 13: Yes. So basically, what Israel's contention here is is that
• 44:02
  Speaker 13: Hamas has a history of infiltrating any in all organizations,
• 44:05
  Speaker 13: including charitable organizations, and they want to be able to
• 44:07
  Speaker 13: conduct background checks on the aid workers and other people
• 44:10
  Speaker 13: that would be going in with respect to this, and
• 44:12
  Speaker 13: if not, you know, they can't be trusted. Is the
• 44:15
  Speaker 13: position here, And that's certainly understandable, and it's something that
• 44:19
  Speaker 13: has been going on for some time. I think the
• 44:21
  Speaker 13: counter balance that Israel's going to have to grapple with
• 44:24
  Speaker 13: is in the court of public opinion. Names like Doctors
• 44:27
  Speaker 13: without Borders.
• 44:28
  Speaker 12: And things like that.
• 44:28
  Speaker 13: You know, people don't equate them to UNREWA, for example,
• 44:31
  Speaker 13: which has been solid more in the media. So that's
• 44:34
  Speaker 13: just something that from a PR perspective, they are swimming
• 44:36
  Speaker 13: a little bit upstream with how they manage that publicly.
• 44:39
  Speaker 13: But that's basically what the essence of this is about.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: And Michael Unrah has been exposed for a long time
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: now as being heavily inbid with Hamas, so presumably they're
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: not allowed to go into Gaza at all at the moment.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I think that's right.
• 44:54
  Speaker 11: So they're the paradigm that's caused these rallies to venue
• 44:58
  Speaker 11: security of a public relation. That's what happened is UNRA
• 45:02
  Speaker 11: members participated in the slaughter of October seven. Even UNRA
• 45:07
  Speaker 11: was forced to expel those people or agree to them
• 45:11
  Speaker 11: being arrested. So choosing security over public relations is that
• 45:16
  Speaker 11: is what Minister Chickley has said. Humanitarian aid is welcome,
• 45:21
  Speaker 11: but exploitation of humanitarian organizations like MSF are not. Only
• 45:27
  Speaker 11: one percent of the aid is affected by this ban.
• 45:30
  Speaker 11: Fifteen percent of the organizations refused to be registered and
• 45:34
  Speaker 11: the rest are operating in Gaza with humanitarian aids. That's necessary.
• 45:40
  Speaker 11: Anyone who doubts this kell Just go google un Watch.
• 45:46
  Speaker 11: It's an organization that keeps track of all of the
• 45:48
  Speaker 11: expenditures on UNRA and various other organizations. Google it and
• 45:52
  Speaker 11: you'll see voluminous documentation from these organizations on resources to
• 45:57
  Speaker 11: see that much of it has been used to assist
• 46:01
  Speaker 11: a Hamas. It's outrageous and that's why the Netherlands, Denmark,
• 46:06
  Speaker 11: Germany followed the United States in cutting back on aid
• 46:09
  Speaker 11: to UNRA.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: A quick final question about Malaysian airwayt flight MH three
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: seven zero, which disappeared as we know now ten years ago.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: There's now some talk about new technology possibly finding a
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: way to discover where the wreckage is and bring some
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: closures to the families. What do we know about this, Kosher.
• 46:32
  Speaker 13: Yes, so there is new technology by this American British
• 46:36
  Speaker 13: company that was also responsible for finding the wreckage of
• 46:39
  Speaker 13: one of the Irish, the famous Irish explorer who did
• 46:42
  Speaker 13: multiple expeditions Tantarctica. And so there's good DNA and genesis
• 46:47
  Speaker 13: there and they're supposedly going to be expanding the search
• 46:50
  Speaker 13: territory in the Indian Ocean in two areas that were
• 46:53
  Speaker 13: not previously explored with this and getting deeper into oceanic
• 46:58
  Speaker 13: territory and maybe being able to access terrain that was
• 47:01
  Speaker 13: not accessible to humans before. So we can only hope
• 47:04
  Speaker 13: this remains the greatest aviation mystery in modern history. And
• 47:07
  Speaker 13: if we can get some more answers, I think the
• 47:09
  Speaker 13: world would love them, and certainly the families the survivors
• 47:11
  Speaker 13: would love them as well.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: The families would love that the world would love to
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: know Kosher Michael, many thanks for your time tonight, and
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: can I mention on the subject of MH three to
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: seven oh There is a documentary, a brilliant documentary made
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: by Sky News called MH three seven oh ten years
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: on and its screens tonight here on sky News nine
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: o'clock Eastern Australian daylight time. That's right after just over
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: an hour from now, right after the screw of the
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Great Debate. So stay with us right through them. I'd
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: see the late Debate and then afterwards the documentary MH
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: three seven oh ten years on. Great watching. Now it
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: is the end of the year and possibly it's time
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: for us to start thinking about is what the number
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: ticks over one and you know one year folds over.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: We need to think about New Year's resolutions. Well, We
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: do that every year, don't we have you come up
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: with your New Year's resolutions. You know normally that the
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: things you break by about the middle of January you
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: go back to eating too much or whatever it is
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: you promise not to do. May I suggest a new
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: year's resolution that you might like to consider making. It
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: comes from the late Don Chip, who left the Liberal
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Party to form his own minor party, the Australian Democrats.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Chip famously said that his goal with the new Democrat
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Party was quote to keep the bastards honest. Sounds like
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: a good year's resolution to me. So why don't you
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: think about that? Why don't you resolve that in twenty
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: twenty six you will pay close attention to what our
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: politicians are doing and saying. You will speak up, you
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: will talk to your friends, point out when our leaders
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: are clearly lying through their teeth, and you'll play your
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: part in keeping the bastards honest. How does that sound
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: good year's resolution? I humbly recommend it to you, and
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I wish you a very happy New year. Now the
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: late debate, i'd thee not so late to bate