Latest / The Higher Pursuit Podcast / Why you're still STUCK || Cecily Lachapelle

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Why you're still STUCK || Cecily Lachapelle · The Higher Pursuit Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Why do so many Christians stay stuck even after prayer?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: And as you said, scripture reading, counseling, or even self-help resources?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Why is that?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Many of us already know how we feel.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: We can name that we're anxious, angry, ashamed, numb, isolated, exhausted, depressed.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: So the problem's not really that you don't know, that you're not noticing.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: The problem is you're not slowing down enough to find out why it's there.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: Come on, say that.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Have you found that sometimes God is going after something deeper than the symptom that people originally come to you with?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times people are coming to me with various symptoms, okay?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: And they could be physical, they could be emotional, it could be intrusive thoughts, anger, chronic fatigue, that's physical, back pain, bladder infections.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you could jump on the trampoline and break your ankle.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's a direct correlation.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I need my ankle physically healed.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have a bladder infection, let me just go here for just a minute.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't an always situation.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to give you an example.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a bladder infection, you know it's actually, it could be a symptom pointing to a signal that God wants to show you something underneath.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I know this personally, this has personally happened to me, and I've prayed for many, many people.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you come to me and you say you have a bladder infection, I'm gonna say, do you have awe against anyone?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: I've asked this time and time again, do you have any unforgiveness towards anyone?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Did something recently happen where you got angry and upset?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I've ever had this.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say it's 100%, but I've never had it where people said no.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: How often do you see protection patterns disguised as personality traits?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Hey there, friend.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: What if healing is about more than what's happening in your body?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: What if God wants to bring wholeness to your mind, your emotions, and your relationship with Him as well?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: My guest in this episode is Heather O'Brien, host of the Heal with God podcast.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And she has a beautiful way of taking deep truths about faith, healing, God's word, and hearing his voice and making them practical for everyday life.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: In this conversation, we talk about what it means to partner with God in the healing journey and how we can grow in recognizing his voice and experiencing his presence in very real ways.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're gonna walk away from this one encouraged, equipped, and full of hope.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Let's dive in.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Higher Pursuit Podcast.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Cecily La Chapelle.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: And as always, I am so grateful that you've chosen to spend this time pursuing Jesus with me.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're new here, this is a place where we go deeper than surface level Christianity.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna lie, because we want authentic faith that transforms every area of our lives.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Not just what we know about God, but how we actually walk with Him every single day.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: So today is going to be such an encouraging conversation because we're talking about something I think almost every believer has wrestled with.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: Why we stay stuck?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Why we pray, read our Bible, go to counseling, listen to sermons, consume all the Christian content, and yet sometimes feel like we're fighting the same battles over and over again.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: Does that resonate with anybody?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what if God wants to heal something deeper than behavior?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: So joining me today is Heather O'Brien, author of the Heal with God book and podcast host of the Heal with God podcast.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: Heather has a beautiful ministry that I am so enjoying getting into.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: And she helps people uncover the spiritual and emotional roots behind the struggles that they're experiencing while learning to partner with the Holy Spirit for genuine healing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: Heather, welcome to the Higher Pursuit podcast.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! I'm so excited for this conversation.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to see what God is gonna do today.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Heather and I were just talking about how, you know, we we send each other questions for our podcasts and we kind of formulated some answers loosely, but we know that God is just gonna bring this conversation where he wants it to go.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: So we're actually on the edge of our seats seeing how this is all gonna play out.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's very exciting to be on this adventure.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: For anybody who thinks being a Christian is boring, you just haven't walked with God long enough yet.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Come on, that's a good way to put it.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: He's fun like that.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we forget that God can be fun.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so fun, right?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Heather, for those who don't know you yet, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and the work you do with Heal with God?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm Heather O'Brien.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a wife, mom of three boys.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm homeschooling and minister, author, podcast host, and a spirit-led healing coach.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: The simplest way I could explain that would be I help Christians hear God about what's beneath the struggle.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I know how it feels to love God, believe in prayer, and then still feel stuck.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: For years I went to church, I prayed, I served God, I believed the Bible, I read the Bible, but I was still privately battling anxiety, depression, shame, fear, old pain, you name it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: And everything really began to change for me in my life when I learned how to slow down, hear God clearly.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's possible.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I understood what those struggles were really pointing to.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so now I help other Christians do the same.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: That I love that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: So much of what you're describing resonates with me.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we've talked about my book, Repurpose Your Pain.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so many of the things that you talk about on your podcast are literally almost word for word, things that I put in the book.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just I love it when God unites messages and ministries and hearts.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: So one thing I've discovered in my own walk is that the Lord rarely deals with what I can just see on the surface.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: He wants to deal with my heart, my belief systems, and really, if you boil it down to the least common denominator, my identity.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I've learned the transformation isn't behavior modification, it's heart transformation.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, one question that really stood out to me that I'd love to ask you is why do so many Christians stay stuck even after prayer and as you said, scripture reading, counseling, or even self-help resources.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Why is that?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, many of us already know how we feel.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: We can name the feelings.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe, maybe some of us can't, but we can name that we're anxious, angry, ashamed, numb, isolated, exhausted, depressed.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: We could we can put words to that for the most part.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So the problem's not really that you don't know that you're not noticing.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: The the problem is you're not slowing down enough to find out why it's there.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, say that.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it happening?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: When what do I believe when it's happening?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: What fruit is this producing in my life?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: What are the consequences to staying stuck?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we start asking a little bit deeper questions, that's how we actually can untangle what's really beneath the surface.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta get curious, you know?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta get curious with God.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because really, if you're just asking yourself, you're probably saying, Well, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Yeah, of course you don't know.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you knew, you would be unstuck.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: The problem is we need to bring these curious questions to God.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: The Holy Spirit wants to reveal what we don't know.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: He says the heart is deceitful amongst all things.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like you think you know until he shows you something, and you're like, Oh, I did not know that was there.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he reveals things when we ask questions, when we give him permission.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's one of the biggest things.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love Psalms 139.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: For me, this is a permission slip.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I pray it regularly as a permission slip for God to convict me.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh search me, oh Lord, test me, know my anxious thoughts, point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me along the path of everlasting life.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see how that's a permission slip?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: We just get to invite God to tap us on the shoulder.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe conviction is just one of the most beautiful things.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I know it's like a bad word to some people, but it's really a beautiful thing when the Holy Spirit can convict you and you you see what's in your heart, you can repent.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And when you repent, you think differently.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just uh a shame thing.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: When he convicts you, it's not to shame you, not to condemn you, it's to reveal a struggle underneath so that you can change the way you think about that thing, about that struggle.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're not gonna stay struggling anymore.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's exciting to me.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: So conviction brings transformation.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: If I could be honest with you, I was talking to a student earlier today.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Here we go.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like this is like this is just the exact thing.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you said this whenever I was interviewing on my podcast, and I didn't interrupt, and I was like, oh, this is gonna come out.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: She was telling me that God invited her to see something deeper that she had no idea was there.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a, and she even used the word, she said, I got a revelation of a judgment that was in my life.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I'm helping the students go through and understand what judgments are and how to discern it.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's all through prayer, but she used the word revelation.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want to point out this today that whenever you have a revelation, it usually brings repentance.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a deeper awareness of, oh, I didn't know what I didn't know.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: And repentance simply means change the way you think.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of want to help you see these words aren't bad words, and they actually bring the transformation.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Oh, honey, if you got revelation, transformation is eminent.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Get excited.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: They all go together.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's one thing the Lord has shown me is that information alone doesn't transform us.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: We can know scripture, we can memorize scripture, we can even teach scripture and still have places in our heart that we haven't allowed the Holy Spirit to apply that truth, or where we haven't allowed the Holy Spirit.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: I love that permission slip.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: That is so great.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going back to that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Psalm 139, what were the verses?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's Psalms 1 to 39.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think it starts at verse 23.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well, anyway, going back to 139 as the permission slip, I'm so stealing that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to write that in my journal, write it, pin it to the top, because the Lord has given us free will.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And he's not going to manhandle us.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: He's not going to come barreling in and saying, okay, we're dealing with this today.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: And sit down, buckle your seatbelt because I'm fed up.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: I've had just about enough of this attitude.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: I've had just enough of this behavior.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so right now, I'm telling you like it is, you better make the changes.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's how we think that God feels about us and how he wants to treat us.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not at all like that.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's sitting there saying, I have, I've got your ticket out.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: I have, I have the key to unlock this cell that you're that you willingly walked into.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I have the key to set you free, but I'm not going to force your hand.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want the freedom?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Will you make time?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Will you make room?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Will you allow me to show you where the enemy has lied to you and tricked you so that you can walk out?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: But he's never going to make us.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: We have to give him the permission.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because knowing that God is faithful intellectually isn't the same thing as inviting him into the wounded places in our heart and actually believing that he's trustworthy.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Heather, have you found that sometimes God is going after something uh deeper than the symptom that people originally come to you with?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, a lot of times people are coming to me with various symptoms.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they could be physical, they could be emotional.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: It could be intrusive thoughts, anger, chronic fatigue that's physical, back pain, bladder infections.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is I'll tell you part of my story is the Holy Spirit revealing to me, this was years ago.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just kept hearing this whisper in my spirit, you have a gift for healing.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, what are we talking about here?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't healed anyone.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't prayed for anyone to see them healed ever.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: But yet, I so how do you tell me I have this gift?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and so then I was like, well, let me try it out.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I started just praying for healing and not seeing any fruit.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I got frustrated, irritated.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: God, you said I have the gift of healing, but you're I'm not seeing healing.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And he started showing me, Do you want to know why they they really need healing?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And he started revealing to me the breakthrough that they're looking for was deeper than the physical ailments.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: The physical ailments were a signal to a symptom, but they weren't the conclusion.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes we think the symptom is a conclusion, and we're missing the whole point.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you could jump on the trampoline and break your ankle.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: That that that's a direct correlation.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: I need my ankle physically healed.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have a bladder infection, let me just go here for just a minute.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't an always situation.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to give you an example.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a bladder infection, you know it's actually it could be a symptom pointing to a signal that God wants to show you something underneath.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I know this personally, this has personally happened to me, and I've prayed for many, many people.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you come to me and you say you have a bladder infection, I'm gonna say, do you have awe against anyone?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: I've asked this time and time again, do you have any unforgiveness towards anyone?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Did something recently happen where you got angry and upset?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I've I've I don't know that I don't know that I've ever had this.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say it's 100%, but I've never had it where people said no.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I you know, I've heard about that, Heather, where so many illnesses are a direct correlation to either generational curse or sin that we have walked into willingly or unwillingly.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And things, I mean, especially obviously like bitterness and unforgiveness being big ones, but yeah, that's amazing.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: So keep going.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's um, and it wasn't rocket science, but it was revelation that helped me bring transformation to my own life and to other Christians as I'm praying for them.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you tell me, I remember I remembering this story right now where this friend was here and she was saying she needed medicine for her bladder infection.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, can I pray for you?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually just testing it out, I was kind of brand new at this.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I I do want to say hearing God's voice is really key to this whole thing.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just digging around and I don't like a formulaic approach.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't work.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's hearing God's voice for your specific struggle that will really make sense.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so as I as she said yes, I prayed and I listened.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I lit instead of just knowing, I I knew in my heart, oh, she probably has unforgiveness, bitterness, something, something's going on.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I prayed, Holy Spirit, what is it that you want to reveal?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he gave me something really specific that was shocking to me.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love hearing the voice of my creator.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: How encouraging is it?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, he just loves us so much.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I I remember asking her, Do you did you have some kind of argument or fuss or fret with with someone?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and I said, No, it's not just a someone, it was a group of people.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she looked at me like I just read her mail.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because that was so specific.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't I don't know her like that.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we're just not in each other's life like that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, Well, yes.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I led her through the forgiveness.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And this has happened time and time again where we do need the Holy Spirit to pinpoint a thing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we need to assess a situation and we need to go back to when did it start?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: You might have a bladder infection now, but when did it start?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: For me personally, I remember uh driving to church and all of a sudden I felt the pain and I screamed out loud, oh no, and my like the whole car full, you know, where like all the kids, all the husbands, they're like, What is it?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I must have unforgiveness.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: What did I ooh, did I do?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I so it wasn't on the forefront of my mind, but I knew what a bladder infection felt like, and also knew that there are direct spiritual roots to it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I know there's physical ailments that can come from physical things too.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not disregarding that.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but I just knew instantly I've got to pray.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Holy Spirit, who am I offended with?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: You see, I didn't know.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if you and just like this young lady, it wasn't on the forefront of her mind that I need to forgive these people.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was the Holy Spirit revealing unforgiveness has brought this in your body.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I he instantly showed me someone I was aggravated with, but it wasn't at the top of my mind.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Oh, why am I aggravated with her?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: See, I didn't even know why.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was so deeply subconscious that when we're not praying and hearing the Holy Spirit, we won't know these kind of things.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he showed me why, and it was like the simplest reason.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry I let that happen.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: God, please forgive me.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I I went through the forgiveness process, and I will say it is a process.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just, oh, I forgive them.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's a process.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when you I love to walk my students through this, this pro there is a process, but I walked through it with the Lord.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: By the time I got to church, my bladder didn't hurt anymore.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that it is that instant?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen it where people like I've I didn't have to get medicine to get healed.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I've also seen it where people instantly they don't have to take their medicine anymore because they prayed the prayer and they're like, oh, I'm healed.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: They just knew it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm never gonna tell you not to take your medicine.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not against doctors.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Hear me out.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: I am for the Holy Spirit and listening to him heal director steps.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I was listening to one of your recent podcasts, and it absolutely stopped me in my tracks because you were, it was a replay of a live healing workshop that you did with a woman.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Am I allowed to say her name?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, with a woman named Shauna.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: And she came to you believing that her problem was inconsistency.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: You asked her, like, what do you, you know, what are you here for?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what are we praying about?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: And she was like, Oh, yeah, I'm just so inconsistent in my life.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I start a good thing, but then I just never stick with it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: She'd start exercising or eating healthier or developing good routines, spending time with God, and then she'd stop.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that describes a lot of us.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of us, we start reading our Bible or whatever that that good habit is, and then we just can't follow through.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so she was frustrated, and she this was part of the healing workshop.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think so many people are listening are probably nodding right now because we've all experienced something similar.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: But here's what fascinated me.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: You discovered that the issue wasn't really inconsistency.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: So talk to us.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I listened to the episode, so I can say what it was, but I want you to pull the rabbit out of the hat and tell us what she was actually dealing with and how that all went down.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was so good.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you gave a really great uh beginning point.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I do is I coach live, you bring your problem, and then we're gonna hear God.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do what I call the three-step prayer method to get down to the root of the struggle.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this is all Holy Spirit-led, I don't like a formula, but I'm listening to God, and as I'm listening, I'm asking Shauna questions, but also inviting the Holy Spirit to speak to her heart on areas that she didn't know.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we uncovered a root belief system.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't understand what we believe till God shows us a lot of times.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: But she realized that inconsistency wasn't really her identity, but it was a protective pattern tied to past experiences.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now she didn't know this.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: This wasn't her words.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we uncovered in the process.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: She it was exposed that through time and time, like question after question, when we got down to the bottom of it, she really struggled with patterns in her life.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think at the end she she said, Well, I just believe it's it's and she gave this huge awareness moment of what the struggle was, and it was part of her identity.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Whoa, hold on, you you think this is part of you.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so the pattern that was present is now something she can pray through.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of praying about consistency, that's it, that's the biggest problem with the Christian staying stuck, is we're praying for the symptom to go away.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And God's like, Oh, please ask me more questions.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Ask me why that symptom is there.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And when we ask why the symptom is there, then the Holy Spirit can show you what to really pray.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then your prayers are gonna be effective.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, an effective prayer of a righteous man availeth much, but an effective prayer comes from listening.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can find the more of the episode.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's on episode 273 of the Hill with God Podcast if you want to go listen for yourself.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a really uh a revelation moment that brings transformation because now you know what to pray.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: And as I was sitting there, I thought, oh, I'm listening to somebody else's healing moment, you know, how could This apply to me.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, you might as well have been doing that prayer moment with me.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Every single thing that came out of her mouth.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going, oh girl, yeah, I totally feel that sometimes.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: And what um struck me was that she, her, her inconsistency was due to a fear of becoming who God was calling her to be.
• 22:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, oh, whoa, that is so deep.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: That is so deep.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no way that that could have come to the surface.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the kind of thing you think is you're, you know, pushing your cart down the aisle of the grocery store, and you're like, I think I'm afraid of being who God has called me to be.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's probably why I struggle with inconsistency and why I self-sabotage and why I hijack, you know, all of these great things.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: We don't generally think that way.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Unless the Holy Spirit is like, do, do, do.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: That was incredible.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was incredible.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: So and every month we do that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone present, the fun part is just like you said, there'll be people in the chat saying, Well, this is exactly what I was wanting prayer for.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I start out by saying, What's your one annoying symptom that you want prayer for today?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And everybody's like, This is what's my a symptom.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: And every month it might be a different theme, but the people in the room are there on purpose.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then the people listening later are like listening on purpose.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: God is not uh consumed with time.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's just divinely ordering all of our events, even though we think it's just random.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing that struck me is how she had labeled herself.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: She'd labeled herself as an inconsistent person.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think so many of the people in my tribe, you guys have done the same thing.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: We all have.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: We have put labels on ourselves.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: But what if those labels are masking wounds?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've seen that in my own life.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes God wasn't trying to make me more disciplined, for instance, if we're going to use inconsistency, He was inviting me into deeper trust, or he was inviting me into a deeper understanding of what my calling and my purpose is, or maybe he wanted to go if I was struggling with comparison.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: He wants to go to that deeper root of why do you compare yourself to all these other people and say that you come up short?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: What is underneath that comparison?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's that old lie of I'm not enough.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: That I'm not truly accepted.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: You say I'm accepted, God, but that's just you being nice.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: You don't really mean it.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not really accepted the way I am, because I don't accept me the way I am.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: So you, as a holy God, perfect God, you surely can't accept me the way I am.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so then the Holy Spirit and I have to have these conversations.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what happens when we put labels on ourselves.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: But when we come to the Lord, when we allow the Holy Spirit to speak, that's when our hearts can truly change.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, question for you Um, how often do you see protection patterns disguised as personality traits?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's pretty normal, honestly.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And almost unexpected.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I know in my life, I can say this now, with hindsight being 2020, I realized I had isolated myself.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I the isolation was protection.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: But if we really drum it down, isolation is fear.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Fear of what?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a million things.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: But when we let isolation protect us, we're letting fear protect us.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we we get these ideas that we're protected in so many ways by different identities, by different um belief systems.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like isolation is the one that God really wants to go to, but I was a churchgoer regular, sitting on the pews every Sunday.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And every Sunday, like, I really wish I could go to the altar.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: They just invited everybody, but also they won't know how to pray for me.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm such a mess.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: They won't even know what to pray because I don't even know what to ask them for.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you see, all those thoughts seem so rational, so reasonable, and I agreed to them, therefore I stayed isolated.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't willingly participating in isolation on the front of my mind.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was deeply subconscious, subconsciously rooted that this will keep me protected.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: But protection really comes whenever love is present, whenever community is present, whenever everything that the Lord has for us comes to fruition.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: So He wants us to gather together with the Saints.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: He says in James 5:16, confess your sins one to another that you might be healed.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't confessing to anyone my sins because I couldn't articulate them.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm just a hot mess.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I'm just crying now.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I'm crying.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm like, oh honey, I don't know what's wrong with you either, but let's pray.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, let's go to the Lord and together and He can show us exactly what to pray.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this actually happened last night with a ladies' group, and someone was like, You I could tell she was just like the woman that I was a minute ago, where I didn't know what to ask for prayer.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: She was just like, I'm a hot mess, and I'm like, let me pray for you.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what God's gonna do.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And God showed up and revealed things, you know, when you start praying, He takes over your mouth sometimes.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't praying in tongues, but I was praying the words that he, I was like, Oh, you need a grief.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're allowed to cry.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: You you need to cry about what happened.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: What happened to you?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't right, and the words started coming out, and then all of a sudden she's she's receiving the healing that she needs for that very moment, maybe not for the wholeness, but for that very moment.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what God does whenever we quit letting things protect us, like isolation.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: So good.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: So good.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: This is so rich.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I just want to pause for a really quick moment and thank all the listeners for tuning in to the Higher Pursuit podcast.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: I know that today's conversation is encouraging you.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: So would you take just a minute to subscribe to the show wherever you're listening to this podcast, whether it's on YouTube or Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Following the podcast really helps more people discover these conversations.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd love for you to leave a review if you've been blessed by this ministry in any way.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you can also connect with me throughout the week.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: You'll find Bible studies, encouragement, podcast updates, live stream announcements, and resources to help you grow in your relationship with Jesus.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: So you can visit my website, which is HigherPursuit Ministries.com, follow me on social media, and be sure to join my email community so we can stay connected beyond today's episode.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: So let's jump back in today's conversation with Heather.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: All right, Heather, another question that I loved was this.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: How do you discern what to pray for in someone's life instead of using a generic prayer formula?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because you've said a couple of times, I don't like to use a formula.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I just I want to let the Holy Spirit go.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: But what do you how do you do that?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think checklists and formulas, they work.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: They they do obviously work, or else we wouldn't do it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: However, they only get us to a certain point.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: They get us to a certain point, and then you got to know, well, what to do next.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're wondering, well, why am I still stuck?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because I did the checklist.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I like to ask God what's really going on beneath the surface.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: So let me just phrase it this way: a lot of us are praying at symptom level.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: God, take away this anxiety, take away this addiction.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know you don't want me to have this, so just take it away.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Take away the desire.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to say this I think those prayers matter and they're good, and I love that you're praying.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Period.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you're praying.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the same symptom can keep showing up because you're not getting down below the surface.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I like to do a prayer that's not a one size fits all.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: But my I I've got a testimony with my smoking.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was a good example.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I stopped smoking for 10 years.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: I stopped because I just wanted to stop.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure the grace of God was there at some point, but I wasn't really leaning on him.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just stopped.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And here's the problem.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: I still wanted one every day.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: 10 years in, I'm part, I'm in my healing journey, and I'm realizing the behavior's gone, but the desire still remains.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still in bondage.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't right, God.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I believe in God, I believe in prayer, and yet I still want the thing that I let go of.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't even make sense.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I slowed down, I prayed, and I asked God to show me what is still there.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I still in bondage?
• 31:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And he showed me belief systems that were on underneath.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: So the symptom became a signal, not the conclusion.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I learned some things.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now that this is my personal situation, might be part of yours, but the Holy Spirit gave me memories and reminded me of beliefs and agreements I didn't even know was there.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: He showed me that I made agreements in my heart, like, well, if I don't smoke with them, they might not be my friend.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if I don't smoke, they might think I'm the good girl, and they don't want to be friends with me if I'm a good girl.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he showed me agreements that I made at a very young age that was not in my mind.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: I did not remember till the Holy Spirit brought it.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: But he he showed me a time when I was very young, I saw family members smoke, and I I thought to myself, that looks good.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do that when I'm older.
• 31:58
  unknown: Wow.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: That right there was an agreement in my heart, in my mind, maybe in the spirit, that I didn't know I made.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so when the Holy Spirit brings that to the surface, then I can use all of the tools in my tool belt to forgive, to release, to bless, to break agreements, to bind, to lose, whatever it is, then I can use those things.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, instead of going to those things first, I'm getting specific.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's what that's why it's different than a formulaic approach.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that is so, so good.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: I tell you, because there have been times that I've gone into prayer with one agenda, and then before long the Holy Spirit has gently redirected the entire conversation.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: I've learned that hearing God's voice is not reserved for a select few Christians.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that means learning to recognize his voice is part of our inheritance as believers.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're part of the higher pursuit tribe and you have followed me for five minutes, you know that this is something that is so, so important to me.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of my soap boxes.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: If I have two soapboxes, or I always say it's like the are my two legs that I walk on.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: The first leg is the importance of reading, studying, and understanding the word of God.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: And the second leg is the importance of hearing and discerning the voice of God, learning how to hear his voice.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: We need these two legs.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: We need the word and the spirit, the word and the spirit.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to have both.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I love how you're describing that, where we have to have the Holy Spirit's voice directing the prayer to the actual place that needs to be healed, that needs to be released, that needs to be, you know, bound or repented of or whatever.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then we can pull out those tools that we have learned through the word of God and through study and through the anointed lives of other believers and what they share with us.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Heather, how can emotions like anxiety, shame, guilt, fear, unforgiveness actually point towards something deeper that that God wants to heal?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: You kind of touched on it, but can you share another breakthrough story where someone's symptom turned out to be a signal pointing towards something deeper?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the important thing that we'll just jump off of where we were a minute ago, I said, okay, we're gonna discern what is underneath the symptom, but then what?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: It so if God showed you fear, you got to know what that means.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Are you hearing a voice that says, you're not safe?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're not safe.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Stay isolated.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: If it's guilt, well, what does that mean?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: What it what does it sound like?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Guilt might sound like you did something wrong, so you cannot move forward.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Shame might be whispering to you, you are what went wrong.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: You are the whole problem.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then unforgiveness is whispering, well, if I release this, then justice might not ever happen.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just gonna hold on to this.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you know what those voices sound like, then you can pull up the right tool for the right next prayer.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: But none of those messages are really what gets to define a child of God.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: In 2 Corinthians 10 5, we're told to take every thought captive and make it obey Christ.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't make something obey Christ if you don't know what obeys Christ.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got to have the word and the spirit mashed together to tell you the truth.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: The truth has to be from the word and the spirit.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: They go together.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when you can do the listening prayer.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is this true?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: You take this thought captive and you look at it.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is this really true?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is this really from you, God?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Did you say I am a failure?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Did you say that?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I don't think that you would say that.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what do you say instead?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so this listening prayer can go back and forth.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: And depending on what God reveals, that response tells you, okay, now I know I need to repent.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe you need to repent, but then you also need to forgive.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: And there is a trajectory of a healing process that needs to happen.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: But if you start with, um, let me go over here and I'll just grieve.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I need to do.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then that might be good first step, but did you go to the next step?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so you gotta know what all of these say, what guilt says, what fear says, what unforgiveness says, what bitterness says, what they what do they say, what do they sound like?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: How do you when do they come in?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: When are they around?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Who's around you when they when they are whispering to you the most?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then do you know what to do next?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're feeling anxious, you're having a panic attack.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know why?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know why it started?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of us will say, well, it just happens.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's no there's no rhyme or reason.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I I want to be really gentle here and say, that might be true, but is it always true?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any room in your heart for you to just pray and ask the Lord, did a did a thought come in and out so fast I didn't really see it, notice it, but it caused the panic attack?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: When you give space for God, that permission slip, if you give him that permission slip, man, he will show you the route to the issue, um, maybe even before you finish your prayer.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so the goal is not to pretend the emotions aren't there, the goal is to see them, name them, and then bring them to the light of God's word and his his truth.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: See, because you want God's truth to become louder than the wounds.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: If the emotions are there and the wound is really loud, you're not hearing God's voice, then you're gonna stay stuck.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want that for you.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to hear God's voice to get underneath the struggle because you can.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he wants that for you.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: He just wants you to ask some more curious questions.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Mmm, mmm.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you kind of answered this question already, but I'm still gonna ask it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there are probably people listening right now who are thinking, I love Jesus, I've been following him for years.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've I've prayed, I've fasted, I've wept.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: But honestly, I thought I would be further along than I am right now, further along in my healing, further along in my grieving, further along in my um maturity.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say to that person today?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't want you to feel shame, condemnation.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what this message is supposed to do.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: I want to encourage you that there is actually hope.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: You you say you love God, you believe in prayer, but you're still stuck.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's that's great that you love God and believe in prayer.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's like, we're we're almost there.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're still stuck, you might feel hopeless.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to raise your hope right now and encourage you that if you take time to understand how to pray differently, you're gonna get unstuck.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's inevitable that you will get unstuck if you hear God's voice and you start asking some curious questions.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, many of us, uh me raising my hand, read you read books, you prayed the prayers, and yet you still feel ick when that person comes in the room.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, God, I've already forgiven them.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I teach on forgiveness, and yet I still don't want to see them.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: God, what am I missing?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of my favorite curious questions.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: God, what am I missing?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I remember asking that question specifically about this one instance, and he taught me something more.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: There's always more.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Even for those teachers, even for the ones who think you know everything, guess what?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's more.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: The Holy Spirit revealed something.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'll just finish the story.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Well, do you feel like uh he should have known better?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, yes, he should have known better.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's uh, you know, he's he's an experienced leader.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and then the Holy Spirit pointed out right there, he's like, Well, there's your problem right there, honey.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so here's the problem.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that it was reasonable that he should know better because it's actually in the Bible what he did was against the Bible, and he he preaches the word of God, so he should know.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, All that's true, but your should means you are imposing judgments on him.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: You have sat on my throne.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we can go through that, it brings disappointment and heartache so deep in your heart, and it feels so reasonable that you can't even see it.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the problem's not that the word is wrong, the problem's not that the truth is wrong, the problem is you're not letting me convict him, you're putting the judgment in your hand.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you take the judgment off, you you just let me have it.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let me have it.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: Who cares if he did right or wrong?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's gonna be accountable, he will be.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then I could pray different prayers.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I've prayed this multiple times when the when the Lord showed me this.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: That I'm just giving you a specific example that I was stuck.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Someone who understands unforgiveness was stuck.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Someone who teaches on this was stuck, and the Holy Spirit showed me a deeper level, and now I can teach even deeper.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I love it, I got unstuck by hearing God's voice so specific to my situation that he revealed the antidote, if you will, an effective prayer.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then I prayed through that.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And now I can look at that person and I'm like, what?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's fine.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: I love him.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: I can hug him.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's fine.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: So get curious with your questions.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Don't stay stuck.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Get hopeful that you can hear God's voice, and that is the reason you're gonna get unstuck.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so beautiful, so powerful.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, Higher Pursuit Tribe.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: You must be absolutely eating this up.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Heather, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience with us.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: This has been so rich.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, before we leave today, because you, my tribe, love practical biblical applications that you can implement immediately in your pursuit of the Lord, I want to give you a simple exercise to spend some time with the Lord this week.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I want you to think about one area where you feel stuck.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's inconsistency, maybe it's unforgiveness or fear or anxiety, people pleasing, anger or shame, or even a habit like Heather was talking about that that she had struggled to overcome.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe there's a habit you're struggling to overcome.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: And instead of asking this question, God, how do I fix this?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Try asking a different question.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: Lord, what is this struggle trying to tell me?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a deeper belief, a fear, or a wound that you want to heal?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Then sit quietly with your Bible and a journal.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: Invite the Holy Spirit to search your heart.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Don't rush the process.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: Unhurried, time is the key, and let him speak.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Be willing to write down whatever he brings to mind, always weighing it against scripture.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes God doesn't begin by changing our behavior, even though we think that that's what we need.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: We think he needs us to help us stop smoking or stop drinking or stop cussing or stop feeling feelings of unforgiveness or bitterness.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: But he wants to start healing the heart that is producing that behavior.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Heather, this has been such a rich conversation.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: And before we wrap up, would you please tell everyone where they can find you, your podcast, workshops, and everything you're doing through Heal with God?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you can find more from me on the Heal with God podcast on whatever player you love to listen on.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I know sometimes you're struggling and you're just unsure of what to pray next.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that is why I created the Heal with God workshop.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's a free online event that happens every month.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: You can uh go sign up at HealwithGodWorkshop.com.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is where I guide other Christians, just like you and me, through a spirit-led process to help you recognize the struggle.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: What is the struggle pointing to?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: You get to hear God more clearly and then understand what to pray next.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: You can come quietly observe, or after you register, I'll even give you an invitation for the free live coaching that happens in the workshop.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Just like we talked about today, you could go listen to episode 273 to hear more about Shauna's testimony.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: So put this in your calendar.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Go sign up at HealwithGodWorkshop.com.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Heather, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: I know this conversation is going to encourage so many people.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: And before we close, would you please sign us off with prayer?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Father, we just thank you for this day.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: We thank you for this opportunity to come into your presence.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: You said that we can come boldly to the throne of grace and and plead for your for your your mercy.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so we do.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: We ask that you would forgive us of our sins.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: We ask that you would forgive us for complacency.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: We ask that you would stir our hearts and fan the flames that are within us.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Remind us of who you are and who we've created been created to be.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Remind us and stir us up.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: We give you the permission slip to show us any anxious thoughts.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: We give you permission to point out anything in us that offends you.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: We give you permission to show us what the struggles are pointing to.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: We invite you, we invite you, my love, to come in and show us our subconscious thoughts that we don't even know is presence.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: We we thank you, God, that you are the healer.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: You are the one who loves us and comforts us.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: And this won't be hard or painful to bring to the surface, but you're only inviting us to bring healing.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we we welcome it.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: We welcome it because we know that it's for our good and you have our good intentions and plans in mind.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: We thank you.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: We thank you for your love and your mercy and your continued grace to empower us to do these things.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we thank you that we don't have to do any of this alone, that you are with us and you are enabling us.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I declare, warrior, that you are being enabled.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: I speak over your ears that you can hear the voice of your father.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: I speak over your heart that you can receive healing and hope and restoration for those places that feel so stuck and you didn't know where to go next.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: I speak hope and encouragement to you.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: I thank you, Father, for doing all of this in the name of Jesus.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, amen, amen.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Higher Pursuit Tribe, I hope today's conversation encouraged you to stop settling for surface level answers.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: God isn't intimidated by the deeper places of your heart.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's not asking you to hide your struggles from him.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: The goal isn't simply about becoming more disciplined, it's about becoming more like Jesus.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes the breakthrough we're praying for begins with allowing him to reveal the root beneath the fruit.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: So if today's episode encouraged you, would you share it with a friend who needs this message?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode of the Higher Pursuit podcast.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: And until next time, keep pursuing him because he's always pursuing you.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next week.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: God bless.