Latest / The Daily Writer / Matthew Huff: How Running Helps You Become a Better Writer

Transcript

Matthew Huff: How Running Helps You Become a Better Writer · The Daily Writer

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Rider.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Each weekday we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a big believer in spending your time on activities that bring value in many different areas.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: For example, writing is an activity that can bring a whole bunch of different benefits into your life.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think it's an awesome investment.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Another one of those areas is running.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now I confess that I don't know a lot about running, but as I've gotten into it over the last couple of years, it's brought a lot of different benefits into my life.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Running gives me energy, it helps me be more creative, it extends my life expectancy, which is a good thing, and so many other cool benefits.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I am thrilled to feature a guest today who's an expert on this subject.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Matthew Huff, and he's a writer, a runner, and the author of the brand spanking new book called Marathoner: What to Expect When You're Training for and Running a Marathon.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Matthew's writing has appeared in Runner's World and Buzzfeed, among other places.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Matthew also hosts a weekly pop culture podcast called PS You're Wrong and regularly performs improv comedy.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Previously, he was a literary agent, writing tutor, and McDonald's employee, and his first race was the Dairy-5K in LC, Michigan, which he slowly shuffled through for the bagels.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as you can tell, I love his bio here, and this was something that Matthew sent me, so I love his sense of humor.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: It is an absolute blast, and you're definitely going to get a sense of that in this conversation.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So in this interview, I asked Matthew all my burning questions about running, such as what are some of the benefits of running, especially for riders who tend to be sedentary.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: How can running help you become a better writer?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what's the benefit of doing a marathon versus a half marathon or shorter races?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And a bunch of other geeky kinds of questions that I was just burning to know from an expert like himself.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So this episode is a little different.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is not necessarily a writing-related episode, but in many ways it's directly related to writing because I think there's a lot of similarities between the race of writing a book and the race of doing a 5K or a 10K or even a marathon.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you're going to be inspired to get up off the couch, get active, and get some exercise after you hear this amazing conversation.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, here's my really fun conversation with the amazing Matthew Huff.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Matthew, thank you so much for being on the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was really fun to connect with you a little while back, and it is exciting to see your book launched.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So congrats.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for having me.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I have since we connected, I've been listening to your podcast off and on.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love the little daily uh bits of inspiration.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's very nice to have as a writer.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I do want to give a shout out to our mutual friend Kimber Morgan, who connected us and I'm so appreciative that she did.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'll have to let her know that uh when this episode releases, which is will be in the next couple of weeks to make sure and take advantage of the timeline for the book promo.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to have you on because obviously you're a writer, but you're also an expert in running.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, your book is all about marathons.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So let me start out with this question.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the benefits of running, particularly for writers who tend to sit at their desk all day?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, writers are kind of a sedentary bunch.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just lay out some of the benefits of running and why we should consider getting into it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's such a good question.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I feel like it's just speaking from personal experience as a writer who's also a runner, uh, like the thing that is most appealing to me is just like a chance to get some space, like clear your head.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think you hold a lot of sort of like tension in your body, especially when you're sitting down for so long, just you know, typing at your laptop or writing or you know, doing research.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so nice to be able to like get out and stretch and sort of loosen everything up and just put your head in a very different space that's sort of like more freewheeling and creative.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like obviously, there's lots of health benefits to running, you know, like heart health, lung health, it helps your muscles, um, you know, cardiovascularly, there's so many different things that it can do.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I really enjoy just the like the mental aspect of it and sort of like clearing your head and um yeah, and just and just like a nice shift.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I find that sometimes when I'm writing and then I'll go out for a run or even just for a walk, really.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you sort of like come back and you've accidentally solved a bunch of the writing problems that you had that morning, and you're like, oh, I wasn't even like trying to do this, but somehow it happened just in the in the process, I guess.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk about some of the equipment that you run with?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you run with a watch, a phone, any specific type of headphones?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always interested in this because, well, I honestly I just got an Apple Watch recently and um I really, really love it for running.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm curious what you use and what you have found useful as you go running.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, there's so much running gear.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think the most important thing for runners are the shoes.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Really, that's sort of like where you have to start because you're, you know, like your feet are the part of your body that is taking the most impact.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think like there's obviously tons of gear.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's water bottles and clothes and all kinds of stuff.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: But like if you're only going to splurge on one thing, I would say like make sure you get a good pair of running shoes that aren't just like uh like workout shoes that are actually like meant for running.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I use Socony, which is a brand that I really like, but like Brooks is another uh brand that a lot of people use.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it sort of also depends on how long you're running for.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're marathon training, you sort of want long distance running shoes.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just you know going out for like a couple miles, then you know, there's just like normal running shoes that you can get for that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, otherwise I I don't, I'm not a huge, huge gear person.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just like have my headphones and my phone and just kind of go.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: My sister has an Apple Watch that she loves and is uh always tr telling me that I need to get one, but I have been slow on the uptake.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have you used that a lot?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like it?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I've gotta I've gotta admit that I was very, very slow in adopting an Apple Watch.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: But my brother got one a couple weeks ago and he's a few years older than me.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, anytime he gets something, I kind of have to get it too.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: We we have a little competition going there.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh initially I was like, oh, now you're one of those people who's like an Apple Watch geek and all that stuff.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I kind of reluctantly got it thinking this is probably gonna be a waste of time.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to tell you, I got the version of the watch that has cell service, and not having to take my phone with me and and carry it in a pouch or in my hand, uh it's like magic, and I don't know any other way to explain it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in fact, uh a couple nights ago, I was doing a walk and I called my dad via my watch.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey dad, I'm calling you for my watch.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that cool?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just I absolutely love it.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish I would have gotten this a year ago because it is so nice not to have to drag my phone with me.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's that that makes a lot of sense.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like when it came out, like AirPods weren't a thing yet.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: But now that they're separate, you don't have to like plug your headphones into your watch.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yes.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm gonna have to reevaluate my opinion on Apple Watch.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I might have to run out and buy one now.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: But all of a sudden I'm gonna become a salesman for Apple Watch because I just it's such a great device, it really is.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Get them as a sponsor for the podcast for sure.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I should.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I should.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they sponsor podcasts.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe if they do, they can start with this one.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I'm trying to think of other gear that I use.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um so another thing that's sort of really important if you're running races and uh is sort of like an interesting point about gear, I feel like that a lot of people don't think about is when I was running my uh, you know, first marathon or half marathon, I feel like you think to yourself, like, okay, I need like a race outfit that is going to like that I'm gonna wear for the race and is gonna look really cool and I'm gonna take pictures in, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, okay, well, I don't wanna, I wanna like wear something that's new and and like cool for the race.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I'll, you know, just like train in any old whatever.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: But that's sort of like uh a mis an easy mistake to make when you're an early runner because then you get to race day and you've never ran such a long distance in those clothes.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so it's like it might like pull at a certain place, you're starting to get chafing or like a rash or something.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really important that whatever gear you're planning on using during the race is stuff that you've trained in, whether that's like clothes or water bottles or fanny packs or whatever, because if you try out something new on race day, sometimes that can sort of, you know, like you end up with like a bleeding ankle or something because it's rubbing weird.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really, I think the most important thing with gear is to like figure out what works for you and then train with that and then also run races with that so that you're not like um sideswiping yourself on race day.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I've heard that before, but I'm really glad you said that because I would have never thought about that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, I didn't think about it either, really, until until I was in my first race.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I had these different socks that I was wearing, and then the back of my shoe kept cutting into my ankle.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, this is like uh I need to save this for the next go-around.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, can you talk a bit about the benefits of doing a full marathon versus something like a 5K, 10K half marathon, et cetera?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm asking this because I'm training for a half marathon that'll take place this fall.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've done a 10K and a couple 5Ks, uh, but I've not done a half marathon yet.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: A full marathon seems like a big, massive ordeal.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: What is the benefit of doing a full marathon versus a shorter race?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I like health-wise, I don't think that there's really that many different benefits.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like obviously, if you're running longer distances, that's you know, your like cardio level is at a you know a peak, or maybe like you're losing a little bit more weight or you're getting more fit just because you're putting your body through more.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in general, I sort of think that the health benefits are are about the same.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: What I would say though, is that the the half marathon and the marathon, I think, but the marathon to like a little bit bigger of a level is such a like monumentous occasion that the whole process of like training for it, working up to it, actually running it is something that I feel like you really like carry with you for the rest of your life after that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's such a huge thing, and you put so much time and so much effort into it that I think that there's like an extra sort of like, I don't know, pep in your stuff that you get after you run that round from like a 5K or a half marathon.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other thing I would say is like uh about running a half marathon or a marathon in comparison to just going out and running, because I know lots of people who are like, oh yeah, like I run, but I don't really run races.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that just having a goal and something that you're working towards is really good in that it forces you to keep doing the activity.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes running is a lot of fun, but sometimes running is a real beast, especially if you have like a busy schedule and you know it's like late at night or early in the morning, and you're like, I'm not really having the motivation to do this.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like when I'm not training for something, I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'll like skip today and I'll maybe like run tomorrow or later this week.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or when you have an event coming up, I think there's an extra sort of um impetus to actually like get out and do it because you're like, okay, I gotta do this training, otherwise I'm not gonna be ready in time for the race.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it just like gives you a little bit extra motivation.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with a marathon, because it's such a big thing and you have to train for so long, it's it really forces you to get in the habit of running for, you know, like several months um or even like a year before the before the race.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where if you're running for like a 5k or something, you're like obviously you're gonna be doing training, but you the training might be for a shorter period of time.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so you might like not create that same habit, I guess.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, that that totally makes sense.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can you can kind of go just walk a 5k, I guess, if you want to, and you don't really even have to train for anything, I suppose.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you can get through it without killing yourself, but but I don't think it's gonna happen with a marathon.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Although I will say this, which I tell people all the time, I think it is more difficult to go from someone who doesn't run at all to running a 5K than it is from running a 5K to running a marathon.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you aren't running, if you're not a runner, your body is just like not used to that motion at all.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I feel like everyone who starts running, uh, especially if you're not like a like if you didn't run in school and stuff, like I like I didn't, um, like the first time you go out, you can like barely get like a half a mile, a quarter of a mile.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Your body's just like, what is this?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: We are freaking out.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can't handle this.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't had to like breathe that hard.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Your lungs don't know what's going on, your muscles, you're just like sore for forever.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it really takes a while for your body to get used to just like the motion of running.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you've got that, once you can go three miles, then it's sort of just like adding distance.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, it takes a lot of training time, but it's but your body at least like knows what's going on.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, like three miles isn't that different from four miles, isn't that different from five miles?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Where like running is very different from laying on the couch.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that is true.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, speaking of that, for for those who are listening who have really never run, maybe they're really sedentary.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's some simple steps they could begin to take, particularly since you know it's gets it's starting to get nice outside.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's what sort of things could they begin doing to just work up to getting more active, maybe even thinking about walking on a regular basis, maybe doing a 5K, something like that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: What are some simple things they could start doing?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there, I mean, there's some great like couch to 5k websites out there.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you just Google it, there's lots of really good plans.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I mean, I think just walking is always a great first step.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's something that your body is used to doing already, no matter who you are, to a certain extent.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, yeah, if you're used to walking to the car and stuff, like go on a walk around the block, walk a little bit further.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then sort of once you feel like, oh, like I can walk a couple of miles and it's not bad, then you can start doing like a run walk thing, which I think is a really good way to sort of like build up more endurance, where you let's say like walk for five minutes, then run for a couple of minutes, then walk for another five minutes, then run for a couple of minutes.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you don't feel the pressure of having to like run consistently.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you get really tired, you can just slow back down to a walk.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you feel good, you can sort of like pick it back up again.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um also, you know, like if you have an elliptical machine or an exercise bike, like those are also really great ways to kind of like work on your cardio if you don't uh with a with like less um impact than with than running it.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's something where like, oh, maybe your like knee is kind of tweaky or you have a weird ankle problem, you can easily like kind of start on the elliptical machine or the bike and and um and sort of like build up a little bit more endurance.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was kind of laughing to myself when you mentioned those apps, which which I've used before.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so funny because if you're not used to running, whenever, especially if you're doing just something like training four or five K, you know, you'll it'll say start walking now, and then it'll say start running now.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like the computerized voice.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And every time that voice comes on, I'm like, oh, I hate you.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just I'm just winding down, start running now.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: But they do work because they really build up your endurance and they help you to realize, man, I could conquer this.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is something I can actually do.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I feel like at the end of a run, you just always feel so like rewarded by it.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like even if it's a if it's a sucky run and you feel bad the whole time, then when you finish, you're like, oh my gosh, I got through that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was amazing.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you feel great when you're running and you finish it, then you're like, oh, that was great.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and I enjoyed the whole process and I feel good anyways.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, it's it's a little bit like um I like a like just like sort of a confidence boost.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like whenever you do it, so or complete a run.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's another thing with just um like going back to what we were talking earlier about how like things that are beneficial for a writer.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that especially being a writer, a lot of times the goals you have are really far off, and it's hard to find like moments to like pat yourself on the back for.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you can finish a draft or something, but then it's like, well, it still needs so much work and you might have to edit things.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like a process that's almost sort of like never done.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where running is nice because you like are finishing like very concrete steps of like, okay, I ran for 10 minutes, like done.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can be proud of that achievement.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that, like, oh, I'm gonna have to go back and like work on that again later.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it seems like running is almost like a metaphor for life in many ways, in the sense of you're achieving something, uh, something difficult, you're accomplishing something, you're completing something, it's tangible.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So many times writing feels like especially because we're writing on computers, it's such an intangible thing.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, until you have a print book published or something like that.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But running is something you can go out and do, you know you did it, you feel the effects of it, and it's you can sort of hold it in your hands versus all this this abstract knowledge work that we do today, which I wonder if that's part of the appeal of it as well.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and another thing I think that's similar with writing and running is that there's sort of things that anyone can do.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of sports that have you know barriers to entry in that, oh, you have to have all of this equipment or you have to be on a team or a leap.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's just like a lot of things that have to be in place.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really easy to be like, oh, like I I couldn't do that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're running, it's really just you and choose.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So as long as you have that, you can get out and do it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, when I first started running, I was like, yo, I can like I wasn't an athlete in high school at all.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I was not a runner.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: I really didn't start running until college, and then it was sort of just like a thing I did kind of on the side.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I ran a half marathon.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, that was great.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would never want to run double that seems like hell.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I think that this is the end of my running career.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I always assumed that people who ran marathons were these like young fitness model, like Abby sort of uh like gazelle type people.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I moved to New York City, and the New York Marathon is huge and basically shuts down the whole place every year for that day because they're running on all of these roads.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so a friend and I went to go sort of like casually watch it, and I was like, wait, these people don't look like marathon runners.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: They just look like everyday people.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, people of all ages, all sizes, all like shapes and colors.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: It just sort of looked like you were at the mall, except for everyone was like running instead of uh, you know, wandering around the Auntie Anne's pretzel line.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I just I was just so inspired by all of these people.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's similar with writing.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like anybody can be a writer.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you, you know, look at the New York Times specialist, there's not, there's not uh like groups of people there that are sort of like uh that there's like a barrier to as much.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like anyone can can spend their day like typing away at the computer or writing in a journal.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone can spend their time running.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I and so I like that, like it feels like it's something for everyone, which is great.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this conversation would not be complete if I did not ask you about the process of bringing this book to market and getting it published because this is a writing show.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of our listeners will be interested in how did this book actually come about and how long did it be?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Take you to write and just any details that you want to share about that process.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I came to writing a book sort of like through a sneaky back door because I work in uh I work, I worked at a literary agency when this book started to take shape.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I know a lot of people, probably most of the people listening to this, would have to go through like, you know, the traditional like query letter and submitting to agents process, which I uh luckily sort of got to skip on because of uh the job that I had.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: But so I was working in an agency and it turned it the idea started to float around that publishers were looking for a book that was on marathons that was sort of like a fun, illustrated like guide to marathons and running and running culture, and that they were kind of looking for a writer for it.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so me and another woman named Bridget Quinn decided that we would sort of like team up to write the book, and then through a series of events, she ended up not being able to write it, and so I wrote it on my own.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's sort of how it happened.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the actual writing of the book, uh it took me like about a year, and it's not like a traditional nonfiction book or a uh or like a novel where it's sort of like one storyline.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's more formatted like a magazine where there's all these different kinds of blurbs.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So mostly what I had to do was come up with this list of all of the different topics and you know, uh paragraphs and things that I would need throughout the book, and then just have to like buckle down and like write them all and sort of give myself a schedule of like, okay, today we're you know gonna write about these various health concerns that I have sections on.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, today I'm writing a bucket list for uh, you know, like marathons around the world that someone would want to run.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm going to be doing interviews with people and then like writing up the interviews and editing those.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a lot of like hodgepodge of different things.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I really enjoyed about the book is that I got to interview a lot of people from across the marathoning community.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that from like uh professional runners to the people who are in charge of the New York City Marathon, to this woman who ran a whole marathon dressed as a panda, to I've heard about that.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So just all kinds of different people.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I loved doing those interviews.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then afterwards, I took a lot of the stuff that I got from them and had to figure out like, okay, where does this fit in?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where can I weave all of these quotes throughout all of these different sections?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the law, so the writing was was tricky, you know, because writing always is, but it was a little bit, there was a lot of like sort of structural things that I had to spend my time doing.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then I assumed that, oh, I would just like turn in my Word document and be done with it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I actually was very involved in like the design process of the book as well.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's illustrated and there is pictures in it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got to help the team like pick out photographs.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: We had one photographer who has done race photography for like 20 years, and so he just like gave us access to his archives.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I would just like go through all of these pictures trying to figure out like, okay, I need one where it's like somebody at an aid station, but they kind of look tired.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me see if I can find this.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, just like figuring out the layouts and the designs and everything.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a it was a lot more involved experience than I thought it was gonna be, but it was so much fun and so rewarding.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the that the production team did a really good job because I think the book looks good.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, I'm biased in that way, but I think it looks nice.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I haven't seen the interior of it because I don't have it yet, but the cover is stunning.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I can't wait to get my hands on it today.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, in fact, when I go home tonight, I'm gonna go to my local Barnes Noble and and get that, not Amazon, um, because I do believe in local bookstores.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um and I think that's pretty cool.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: So well, Matthew, this has been an absolute blast.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've added so much value to this show just by your great tips, and you've inspired me to stick with it.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Running has not been something I really got interested in until just a couple of years ago, but you've really inspired me to keep on keeping on, stick with it and to um to shoot for a marathon eventually.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that'll be my next year's goal after I finish the half this year.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when is the half?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: The half is in October.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is a it's a race.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I live in Missouri and uh you might expect this would be the title of a Missouri half marathon uh race, but it's called the Missouri, it's called the Mo Cowbell, you know, because Missouri is kind of a very rural kind of community.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: But this takes place in St.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Charles, which is kind of to the it's in a western suburb of St.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Louis, uh not a suburb of St.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Louis, but it's west of St.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Louis.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like a 5K and a 10K and a half and a whole marathon sort of baked into one, and you can choose how long you're on the route and uh and stuff.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I've still got a few months, but um we'll see what happens.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's so exciting.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: A weird thing about this race is that when you finish, they give you a little cowbell, like literally a little cowbell.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you ever watch videos of people doing this race, you hear this constant clanking noise.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like a big cow pasture, uh-huh.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Which is it's a very appropriate for Missouri because it's like, you know, we have lots of farmland and that kind of stuff.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that sounds like so much fun though.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to do it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks again for doing this interview.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a blast.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate Kimber connecting us once again and can't wait to see your next book.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you don't want to think about that right now, but I'm looking forward to the next one when and whatever that might be.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, thank you.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, thank you for having me on the show.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so much fun.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you ever have any, you know, tips or questions about running, uh, feel free to shoot me a text or an email.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm more than happy to help in any way I can.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope you enjoyed this chat.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: I had an absolute blast doing this interview, and it was so fun to connect with him.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I do want to give another shout out to my friend Kimber Morgan, who got us connected.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, Kimber, if you are listening to this, thank you so much for connecting Matthew and I.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you are a blessing in both of our lives, and thanks again for doing that for us.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would say my main takeaway from our conversation is just to keep running and to keep pressing forward.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've never started running, I urge you to get started with it, even if it's just getting up off the couch and going for a walk for 20 minutes a few times a week.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But if you started running or if you do it on a regular basis, just keep pressing on.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know I've seen a lot of benefits from getting started with running, and I know that you will as well.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, honestly, running felt super intimidating to me at first, but the more that I have learned about it, especially since I've done a couple of smaller races, it's given me confidence to tackle new and more challenging things in my life.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure to check out Matthew's new book, again, called A Marathoner.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can get that at Amazon, you can get it at Barnes Noble or bookstores or wherever fine books are sold.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also connect with him on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, all those links will be in the show notes.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, before we wrap up today, I do want to mention that our Daily Writer community is hopping and we've got some awesome things going on there.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have people finishing books, we have people working on books, we have people launching businesses, we have people collaborating within the group for podcast stuff and freelance work and all kinds of interesting things.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I gotta tell you, this has been an absolute blast.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the major highlights of my professional life has been leading this community.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's only a few dozen people in it right now.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I cannot wait to see as this continues to grow over the next few months and over the next year or two, I cannot wait to see the really awesome and fun things that come out of this community.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you can be a part of it as well.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to be a part of a group of writers who are growing, who are being stretched, who are meeting and exceeding their writing and creative goals, then you can go to daily writer life.com slash community to learn more.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much, and I'll see you tomorrow.