Latest / New Worlder / Episode #92: Gabriela Perdomo

Transcript

Episode #92: Gabriela Perdomo · New Worlder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the New Worlder Podcast and I am one of your hosts, Nicholas Gill.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking with Gabriela Perdomo,
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: who is the owner of the tortilleria and restaurant El Comalote in Antigua,
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Guatemala.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: More than just a place to buy tortillas and eat delicious things with corn masa,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: the almost entirely female-run El Comalote is a project that is helping resurrect
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: the links between Criollo corn and consumers in urban parts of Guatemala.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like in Mexico,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: as well as other neighboring countries,
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: the majority of tortillas consumed are made from industrial corn.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Gabby explains how the technique of making tortillas by hand remains dominant in
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: the country,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: but the choice of corn has changed drastically in recent decades.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: There has been a shift away from the more difficult to grow native varieties
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: towards the varieties that all look the same,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: grow extremely fast,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: and produce massive quantities.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: However, these varieties are less nutritious and often need pesticides and other chemicals to survive.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Since El Comalote opened in 2021,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: they have helped open the eyes of urban consumers and chefs in the country to the
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: flavor of heirloom corn.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've been there a couple of times now and tasting these thick,
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: brightly colored tortillas,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: reds,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: greens,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: oranges,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: blues,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: blacks,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: shows how perfect of a food a great tortilla can be.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: You really don't need much else.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: They also make other masa-derived foods like tamales,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: cambrayes,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: chicha,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: chuchitos,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: and many other things.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's important from this interview is to understand how Gabby has been able to do this.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: More than just getting the very best corn and paying farmers the highest prices,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: she has listened to indigenous farmers and the communities that she works with to
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: try and understand their needs and concerns.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's a really great documentary that just came out.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's about corn in Guatemala featuring Gabby and her work at El Comalote alongside
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Deborah Fadul of the restaurant De Acá in Guatemala City.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's called World Eats Bread, Tortillas in Guatemala.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Nat Geo documentary and you can watch it on Disney+.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend it if you are interested in what Gabby has to say.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't subscribed to my newsletter,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's free to subscribe, though paid subscribers get access to all content and archives.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's newworlder.com.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Also, look for my books, such as the Latin American Cookbook, at bookstores or online.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: There are links to them in the newsletter, too.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And before I forget, we also have a New Worlder YouTube channel now.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Full episodes are there, as well as some shorter clips from older ones.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Just go to youtube.com slash newworlder.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And please subscribe, like us, and share us.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Every little bit helps us get seen.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Gabriela, how are you?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Gabby.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Nick.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you prefer Gabby or Gabriela?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't mind.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Gabby, it's okay.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we met briefly before I went to El Comalote.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: like a few years ago,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: it was during,
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: there was this group from Central America,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: UNITA,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: like a bunch of chefs,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: it was organized by like Debbie Fedul.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we went to El Comalote and we also visited a Milpa and Paramos.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the place?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Does that sound familiar?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had that right.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, and then I, yeah, so we went there, we went to visit a farm and then I actually came back like,
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: months later with my family we're um we went to the beach like el paradon and i
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: stopped there and i bought a lot of tortillas to take to the beach and it was like
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: what we ate for like a week so like i have fun but yeah el comalote in antigua this
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: is your project and we're julia and i talked about it before and we're both like
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: really fascinated by it and
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to know more about it and,
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: hear it from you and not just,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: me going in and buying tortillas.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So how did it begin?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, what is it and how did it begin?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: the comalote,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: first,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: just for you to know what it's a comal or the name,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: come from comalote will be like a big comal and comales in English,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: the word will be like riddles.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's what we use to cook the tortillas.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a place where we always gather around, always in a form of a circle.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a place that invites to reunite.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a place where everyone is welcome.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we started this project with this name, El Comalote.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And basically what we do is that we make tortillas.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: We are a tortilleria and we also make traditional cuisine using all the products
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: made from corn that we do here.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: One of the principal characteristics of our tortilleria is that we only use native Guatemalan corn.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: We use a lot of different heirloom varieties in our tortilleria.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something interesting to say because maybe there was a time where there
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: was no necessary to make a difference between corn and native corn.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was a time where it was just corn.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or ishim, as it's the name in all the Mayan languages in Guatemala, ishim is the word for corn.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, you know, corn tortillas.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: But nowadays we have this difference between if it's just a tortilleria that
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: more than 90% of the tortillerias in Guatemala are using GMO corn or other GMO corn,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: but not just in corn,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: but in flours.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's...
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: for me something like interesting that now we have this difference to say native
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: from just the other varieties of GMO corn because it was not like that and here in
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Guatemala we are a country where corn also was originated so it's a very important
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: food for us in terms of history culture but also
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: has a spiritual meaning for us because it's part of what we have been eating for thousands of years.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And also when we started this project, we were motivated to have the best quality of tortilla.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it didn't start with the, we didn't have in mind the native corn.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: We were just wanting to have a very well-made, handmade tortilla.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when we started this research,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: like what are the ingredients that are going to make a perfect,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: well-made tortilla,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: we started looking to this wealth,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: world of native corn.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it's interesting because it was not the other way around.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like we didn't start this project because of native corn, but because of the tortilla.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then we found native corn in the journey.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, I was born in the 90s.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was born, all these modified alternatives and flowers were part of my palette.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know the difference between these two, especially because I was born in the city.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are...
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: away from the countryside,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: this will be something that will happen to you because you forget the difference.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: You are
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: very like taking away from this awareness of food in general is is not something
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: that is just for corn but it's happening with all the food that we eat and so there
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: still you can still find tortillerias in the countryside that they use native corn
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: but if you are
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: more close to the capital and not just the capital,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: but the capitalist system,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: then it will be very difficult for you to find native corn.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we started this project to have very well,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: like the best quality of handmade tortillas made with native corn and to
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: bring again this option for the areas that have forgotten this option,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: this very nutritious option that we have,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: and also for the new generations to understand the difference and not to forget
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: that we have this very sacred food alternative.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So what exactly happened to corn in Guatemala?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at one point in time, you know, everything was native corn.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: But then, so what happened?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Was it, you know, war?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Did that have a big effect, like the Civil War?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Did that kind of change things in the way things were made and after the post-war era?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: no i like like yes it's also part of of the problem but i think that um before the
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: 60s the there was a some laws that um approve the importation of these gmo options
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: so
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's very difficult for native corn to compete with these GMO options because,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: first of all,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: they are in price,
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: they are lower.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And here in Guatemala, all the products made from corn are very sensible to price.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: you don't want to pay a lot for it because it's something that you eat daily so it
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: really affect the price affects directly um to your family economics so that's why
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: it's very difficult to compete with with this alternative and it get also a another
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: thing was that
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: These GMO corn flowers were also introduced to the market and
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's very easy just,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: if you have this flour,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: it's very easy just to put water to make the masa that we use to make the tortillas.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And with corn,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: you have to make a very extensive process that you have to storage the corn,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: you have to nixtamalize the corn,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: you have to grind it you have to care for it so it's not just a you know just flour
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: water and that's it uh but it it has a lot of um process before to to obtain the
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: the tortilla so this was very
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: helpful for the market because now that we live like in very in that you don't have
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: time and you want everything quick and everything like that all these alternatives
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: that was that were introduced to the market then the people started preferring
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: these alternatives rather than native corn
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Gaby, and what is the approach of the government in regard to these?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: There are like some subsidized,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: subsidized that have affected how,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: prices,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: but also,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: the convenience of consuming these more processed massas or corn or tortillas or
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: what is the government doing about it or over time?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that they are not doing a lot.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Actually,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: right now,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: we are in a fight because there are some laws that are wanting to introduce
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Monsanto in Guatemala.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we still have native corn, it's because of the resistance of indigenous communities.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's thanks for them that we still have this food because if there weren't for them,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: maybe we were not having native corn anymore.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it's a very hard resistance because all the system, I think it's...
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not working for preserving this diversity.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Also another problem is the land access because most of the farmers don't have big land to cultivate.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: They just have like little spaces.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: They cultivate most of them for their own consumption and not to sell.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's very dangerous that we don't have a government plan for preserving all this diversity.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: There are very little
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: work uh but there's no like something that i can say that the government is doing
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: like a huge movement the ones that are doing all this work are the the indigenous
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: communities so when i was there and we went to to that milpa um
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Rafa Meyer, who's, you know, he's a corn expert.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: He runs Fundacion Tortilla in Mexico.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: He was there and he said something that I think about all the time.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: He said,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: he told me or someone,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: but I mean,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I heard it,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: that he said,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's very expensive to invest in the infrastructure to preserve maize,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: which I think about it all the time.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: it's really hard to think about it like that,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: that it's,
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: that as much as we want to preserve all these foods,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's expensive.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Although like everything's stacked against us from, from doing that.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like you mentioned, like Juliana mentioned like government subsidies and things like that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I'm sure the government's actively making it harder to, to do this.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a difficult concept to wrap your head around.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: We all just want it to kind of be easy, but it's not.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it is expensive and it does take a lot of work.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you think of this?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: yeah um i think it's it's true it's very expensive actually i think that um what we
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: are paying for native corn even if we are trying to to pay something that it's fair
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: i think that it's not enough because it's a lot of work and all the machinery that
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: with all the farmers that we work they don't have machines it's all by hand because
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: machinery is expensive and it's something that they don't have access to and if
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: they have access to machines then the price of corn will be like something that
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: that the population won't be able to pay so
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think something that it's important to say is that corn,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: it's something that we have been eating in this part of the continent like since always,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: the cultivation is something also that is part of our traditions and our culture
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: but the problem I think is when we move away from the responsibility of cultivating
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: our own food and then we decided to do like do something else and to put that
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: responsibility of cultivating your food to other companies and other
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: entities and then it's like very difficult to eat good food and we I think we live a very
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: unaware of what is happening in the cultivation of our food and is how the system
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: wants to be,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: not just to put our eyes in all the processes that are being made in the food industry.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: because in that way, it's better for all these companies.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that they will have a lot of problems if we all were putting our eyes in
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: all the processes that they are doing.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So then we have all these cheap alternatives, but they are not nutrition.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have nutrition.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes it's almost like eating something that is damaging our health.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: uh but it's the price is something that we can pay and then we say that it's okay
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: but i think the question for me sometimes is like what are we putting our resources
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: into because maybe if we help or maybe we were paying more for corn uh to
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: to be able for the farmers to have machinery maybe maybe we were eating the best
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: corn and we were being pain less in doctors or other health issues but we prefer to
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: eat a food that it's not nutritious and then pay a lot in other things that are
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: damaging our health so
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's very hard and I think that for us as a country where we are very used to eat
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: corn and that we don't anymore take the time to think all the process that is behind.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think in that way we will be very difficult to pay something more fair and to
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: give other alternatives for the farmers.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: if we don't value and we don't understand that,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: it's not just value,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: but when you understand all the process,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: maybe you will ask yourself,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: if I was doing this,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: how much I will be,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: like...
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: how much money will I be asking for the work that I'm doing?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: If I will spend these nine months cultivating corn or the process, the storage.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you start thinking,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: if you were the one that it's going to do it,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: then maybe everything changes,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: but because we don't care,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: someone else is doing it.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, we don't want to see that part.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so in that way, it's very difficult to,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: to have a more fair market.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And Gabi,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: how,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: as an initiative that unites all these purveyors and farmers of native varieties of corn,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: how does that work?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: How did you start and how the process has changed?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because you are gathering more and more farmers.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: How is the dynamic of the company in, you know,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: having in mind all these challenges?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a very beautiful community.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: We work with farmers that have more land access.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like not huge amount of land,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: but they have a little bit more so they can sell an excedent of their crops.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a very beautiful community because they do what they do because they
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: love what they are doing.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: The indigenous communities cultivate corn, not just
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know, for selling corn.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's more,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: it's a connection that they have with corn because it's what they have been
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: cultivating from generation to generation.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's what their grandmothers and grandfathers did.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: we help them in something that we learn is that not everything in this way of working is not
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always price.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always like, I will pay more.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's more about the community and communication and find other ways in which we can help.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: For example,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: transportation and all the logistics,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: because sometimes it's difficult for the farmers to sell directly because they
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: don't have this logistic system.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So transportation and also storage is something that it's difficult because
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes depending on the weather of the region,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: it can affect the harvest.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So storage is also something that we help to some of them that they ask for that help.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I have learned a lot of how these communities work together.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because at first, as I told you, I was always just thinking about price.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I will pay more, I will pay more.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one time, and this was something that Doña Matea told me.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You knew Doña Matea in this trip that we made.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: because she is my teacher because when I started buying the corn with her and the community,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was telling them that I want to pay more for this harvest because I appreciate
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: all the work that you do,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: so I want to pay more.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And Doña Matea, I remember she said, it's good and thank you that you have this intention.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: But if you start paying more for the corn,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: then it will be no corn for the community because they are going to prefer to sell
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: this corn to you instead of selling for the ones that they didn't cultivate.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you are going to make more expensive the corn for us.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: so please don't do that and i was like wow so i was very wrong so sometimes i i
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: think that i that's when that's why when i think that when we are very close to
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: this capitalist system we um forget the other things that it's not just price and
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: money and all this productivity
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: but they are something else and the way of working together as a community is not
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: price and I think that farmers in Guatemala that still cultivate corn they don't do
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: it because of money that's something that I've learned they don't do it for that
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: they do it because
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Corn is very important.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's what they and what we eat every meal, every day.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a deeper connection with this food.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so hard to grow Criollo corn?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's hard because it's very vulnerable.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on all this weather condition, the climate change.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: For example, this year, we were waiting for the rainy season on March, and it was June.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like March, May, but it was June and it was still not raining.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard because most of the harvest of a lot of farmers that I know are going
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: to be less this year because part of the cultivation were waiting for the rain and
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: because it didn't rain,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: it dried.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them, when they saw that it wasn't raining, they started recultivating again the seed
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot of losses.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you had a bad harvest, then it's the loss of the farmer.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have no one that are like helping them or maybe paying for what they
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: lost or other alternatives.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think weather and climate change is one of the biggest problems.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also the time because a GMO seed will grow in three months.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: To grow something that fast,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: you have to put a lot of agrochemics and pesticides so it can grow in three months.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: But native varieties grow in nine months.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the difference is huge because with GMO corn, you will have three harvests in a year.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: But with native corn, you just have one.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if the weather or this year was that the rainy season came after,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: but it can also be other weather conditions that imagine if you just have one
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: harvest in a year,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: you don't have chance to,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: maybe if I have three harvest in a year,
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: maybe with the first one,
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: it didn't work because of the weather,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: but I have this other two.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So in terms of this, I think that the GMO options,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: may say that they have the solution but the problem is that it's just we have three
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: harvests in a year but we are killing the the earth so then and you are also
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: damaging the the water that goes to the rivers and the animals that are in in the
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: rivers um so
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I think that GMO options say that they have the solution,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: but the solution in a very basic level.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: go all the way down it's a very a very huge problem that it's not just like
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: modifying the seeds to to to have the solution of for this you know it's very it's
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of things also as I told you is the land access because here in Guatemala the
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: ones that are cultivating and working with the
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: with the food that we eat most of them they are not the owners of the land they are
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: working for someone else and this I think it's a problem because if you have maybe
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: more land then you can not just cultivate corn but you can cultivate other other
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: food that can help you you know to have a balance
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: But most of the time, it's what happens, that they don't have a lot of land to have a balance.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the principal problems also.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking, it's obviously a big effort, but you mentioned something that seems to be
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: if not intact, very protected, which is the connection of farmers with what they grow, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't imagine that people buying these native varieties are somehow connected
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: with this because otherwise they will not be buying as you,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: What about consumers?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because...
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: doesn't seem to be a straightforward awareness.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: One thing is to, you know, know the difference.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is more expensive.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is native corn.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: You see the label, you see.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: But do you think consumers feel this as naturally as farmers?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: They are obviously farther away from the land.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's part of the, you know, problem of connection in,
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: industrialist societies and capitalism but i was wondering about that because it
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: seems to be so important to these resistance and that somehow they survive that is
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: not coming all out of profit and the motivation to make more money there is this
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: you know care deep care and i wonder if the same is happening on the other side and
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: if you have seen a change or
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's another challenge.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen a change in terms of appreciation of this alternative,
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: because when we started five years ago,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: it was very difficult to,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: we had to make,
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: to work on,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: making people understand the value of the difference between native and GMO corn.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: As I told you,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: especially I'm talking about the city,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: the Guatemala city,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: or in Antigua also because we are very close to the city.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to the countryside,
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: it's another story because I think that tortillerias is not something new,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: like native corn tortillerias,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: as I told you,
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: is not something that we are inventing because native corn,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: it's very present in the countryside of Guatemala and you can find these tortillerias.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: But they...
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: like live very differently and their relationship that they have with the food.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's very different from the closer that you are from the capital.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that we have seen this
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: this change in thinking, oh, okay, so not all the tortillas are the same.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate this difference.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the quality is obvious because of all the senses,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: the smell,
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: the flavor,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: the texture,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: all the experience.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you eat a native corn tortilla, I think that's very clear, the difference.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think that we are having this connection as it is for the farmers.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's basically because if you are not responsible of cultivating your food,
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: maybe not just corn,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: maybe at least,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: have a plant of chile in your garden.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: in your garden or if you don't have a garden in your kitchen or you know maybe some
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: leaves to cook i think that it's very important for us to start putting our hands
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: in
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: in the earth and cultivate something because we look have like we don't understand
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: anymore all this process we are very used just to go to the market grab all your
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: food eat them and that's it
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: But we are very disconnected for the whole process of a plant of growing.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just for corn, as I told you, it's for everything.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's very important for everyone to start at least cultivating
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: something to start having this connection.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because imagine, I think that it's very different if you
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: eat this tortilla that it's delicious and and as i told you with native corn it's
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: the quality is a big difference but imagine that this tortilla is from the corn
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: that you have been cultivating for nine months and now and you made the whole
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: process and then you eat it it's like we will be like something very special
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: But so I think that it's not just to say like, wow, this is very good taste and all that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: But to have this connection,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we need to put more our hands and our responsibility in what we are eating.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if we don't have the space to cultivate corn, at least something.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I see it in my daughter.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have a daughter of 10 months.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And now that she's...
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: starting to you know to know the world and she's always we have some um plants like
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: in the in the house and she's always looking for the the earth the so she's always
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: putting the hands in there and she likes that
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking like, yeah, it's part of our nature to put the hands in the earth.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And something that sometimes a lot of people are not doing anymore.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's our natural curiosity to want to touch the dirt.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: But then we're told over and over again, no, that's dirty.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Stay away from it.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Don't touch it.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like from a very young age, we're taught to...
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: disconnect from where our food comes from from the from the very soil from the
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: earth it is strange like i i think i grew up very disconnected from i talked about
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: this a lot that i i had no idea where you know my food came from growing up in the
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: states and it was it took me many years i think to kind of to break that to just
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: kind of try and understand what that means and
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: what that means for my kids and try to do something else.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I wanted to talk about was when we went to the farm,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: the amount of varieties that were being grown in that relatively small plot of land
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: was quite incredible.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: There was red corns and black corns and blue corns and yellow.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: But that also helps protect against bad harvest, I imagine.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of other cultures cultivate like this to where maybe one variety might not do
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: as well in a certain way.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: amount of rainfall or something with some erratic weather,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: but then the other variety might kind of help balance it out a little more.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like a safeguard against the erratic climate, I guess, but, but it's, it's much harder.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't get, you're not, not never going to have like that GMO quantity
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: of corn in that just stability of having tons and tons of a crop every single year.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess you always have a little bit enough.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make people understand that?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make customers understand that?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you're doing,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: like you go into a comalote and you have all these beautiful tortillas of different
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: colors and things,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: but then you go to the supermarket and it's just this,
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: like this,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: gray cardboard looking tortilla that they all look exactly the same and there's
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: this like dull lifeless color how do we get more people to to understand that
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know what,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: it's very interesting that I've seen some kids that they don't know,
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: the black corn tortillas because they are difficult to find,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: especially,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: as I told you,
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: in the capital and in the market,
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: supermarket.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they are like, what is this?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: they don't know that this exists and they start preferring the white because it's
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: what they are used to.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very dangerous because
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: As I told you, as me, I was born in the 90s with these GMO alternatives already.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And my palate was like, oh, I love tortillas.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because we conserve things for,
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: thanks to all these women that preserve and resist the handmade technique of making tortillas.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: We still have, you know, these amazing tortillas made by hand.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: But you think it's good because you don't know the other thing and you don't know
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: actually what you are eating.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very important for the new generations and
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now that I am a mother,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I understand better the responsibility that I have with my daughter to give her a
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: lot of diversity in what she is eating.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: because then I don't want her to grow not knowing that all this diversity exists.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I want her to look for this diversity because maybe she will be like living
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: somewhere else,
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: but I want for her to look for this diversity and not just this plain food.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: that i think it's very convenient for the industry you know because it's what it's
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: more productive for this the industry just make this one this one dna that it's
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: perfect for our combo of agrochemics and pesticides and it's better for us to to
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: sell it to have it and
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: you start losing all this knowledge of the diversity that we have in food,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: and then you just want to eat,
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: one thing.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And this happens,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: you can see in restaurants,
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: that children,
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: they don't want to eat,
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: like diversity of food,
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: vegetables,
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: fruits,
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of things.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: They just want the simple food, you know, that.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's important for the new generations to see all this diversity.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: I also see in greens, here in Guatemala, we have a lot of native leaves that we have lost this
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: way of eating but also enjoying these these these flavors then it's like i think
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: it's like a colonization of your palette and your what you are looking the market
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then you just want something that is sweet.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: You just want something that tastes like in the way that works for these companies
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: and the industry in general.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: And all this rich food with a lot of nutritious properties and...
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: and that it's good for our health, then we don't like it anymore.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or it happens with fruit, that now fruits are more sweet, that they were like native varieties.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because everything is modified for us to like and, you know, like want more.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think it's meant for our health, our...
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: well-being or to preserve the connection with the earth.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's meant for that.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we have to do the people that are working with certain food, as us in El Comalote,
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have to make more awareness to... I want to do that too.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes maybe I just don't do...
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: want to do more to to make more awareness of this to make more content about this
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: uh so for the new generations uh they can um they they will want to do it more
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: alternatives and
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: and see that we have a huge diversity in food, not just what you see in the supermarket.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you see one thing in the supermarket,
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: you can see that in the countryside you have for that one thing that you are buying
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: in the supermarket,
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: you have a lot of diversity in the communities that are working very close to this food.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: But Gaby,
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking about that and you mentioned,
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: sorry,
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: even you,
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: you are already doing a lot,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: but you say,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do more in terms of awareness.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think part of all this is education, right?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Educational.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was thinking,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: it's not only,
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: even if it's one product,
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think the problem sometimes is that it's taken as a given.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is there...
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: in your table, in your fridge, in the market, at the market, and it's taken as a given.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's part of the problem.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: apart from diversity and getting used to diverse flavors,
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think that this connection starts when you take it for granted,
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: So even if it's one or two varieties or corn or potato,
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: if it's coming from a good source,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: even if it's the same every day,
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: but you don't take it for granted,
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's when the change starts.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I wonder,
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: you already said,
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you think about this every day,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: like how I educate people more about this,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I wonder what have you talked about
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: uh with your colleagues about this i mean what how to strengthen strategies to
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: educate people not only again not only about try this current try this try because
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: i think restaurants and i mean nick knows this very well i think they have
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: contributed to this awareness of seasonality
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: So not all the time you have available the same thing.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you just ask, what is fresh today?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: What do you have, you know, what are you cooking today?
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's at the market.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: But again,
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: there is a step beyond that,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: which is not taking it as a given because maybe tomorrow that thing is just not available.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I wonder how to go deeper.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have discussed this with your colleagues, what are,
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: which,
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to put more pressure already doing a lot,
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm just doing it.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, yes, it's something that we have some thoughts about.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we take it for granted because we nowadays have more options.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine, I don't know,
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of years ago, maybe you just had this, like maybe like beans, squash, and corn, to say something.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you will eat it every day without,
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: taking it for granted or anything because it was what you have and that's it.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: but now that we have like a huge not options from other parts of the world.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think sometimes you get bored of eating something because you know,
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: that you have all these alternatives.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: So why am I going to eat beans all the day, all days, if I can eat other, other things, you know?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that first of all,
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: it's very important to understand or to know what are the crops that are native
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: from the country or the territory where you are.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: like what is that it's from here and so then try to to put in your diet more of
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: this food because it if you are eating something that it's from the place that you
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: are living it's probably probably it's going to have less um
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: for example, it will be better.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think in terms of this chain of supply,
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: it will be better if you start putting more in your diet of food that are
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: cultivated and are native from where you are.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that nowadays we have a lot of more options.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's difficult to...
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: to have this balance,
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: and also I think it's very,
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: it's very,
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: if you are,
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: if you have very strong cultural values,
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: a heritage or you feel like the more you are connected with your roots your culture
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: then the more that you are going to protect and you are not going to to take for
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: granted the food that it's from your territory but if you are a not like for
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: example here in Guatemala with I think that
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: we have some issues in our our identity as Guatemalans because of the colony and a
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: lot of things that are part of our history that we don't know if we are from like
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: for example me like I'm not Mayan but I'm not from Spain but who am I and all these
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: questions that
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: will be better for me to like other foods that are not for here because I don't have this identity.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see this in countries where they have not permitted,
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: or not countries,
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: but territories,
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: they have not permitted this huge food change to establish.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you see this happens when the community are very close to their culture, their roots, and their food.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't have that,
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's very easy for any brand or anyone can say to you that this is good and you
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: will say,
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: yes,
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: it's good.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think also as a way of not taking it for granted,
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: it's also to make more strength your cultural traditions.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: To know,
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think what happens is also that you don't know where are you from and you don't
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: know where your food comes from.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of things that you are not seeing.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's easier for whatever thing or brand or food that appears for you to say it's
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: okay to eat that,
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's...
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: These companies are eager to move in on any doubt you have and make their way into your life.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think when people lose,
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: I never felt I'm half Italian and all this other stuff and living in Ohio in the States,
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: it's like I had no cultural connection to the food of where I'm from.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Most other people I grew up with didn't either.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: There weren't native communities around.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's hard to get us back to thinking about the food of our landscape and
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: the people that grew all these amazing varieties of things.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a big leap in the mind for a lot of people.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: They've become so used to just
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: going to the store and buying,
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: whatever's they can afford and whatever just appeals to them at the moment in the
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: moment and whatever has a nice looking package or,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: or whatever.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: it's a,
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: it's a big cycle,
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: but it's,
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's in,
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: it seems impossible to break,
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: but I think little by little,
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it does change.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure when you first started with the people you were serving,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of them were like,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: why am I paying this much for a tortilla?
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can just go down to the fucking gas station and get this for almost nothing.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I think over time, they probably saw, right?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's something that takes time,
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: but we need more projects that are putting this on the table.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that we are going to change, for example, the industry in Guatemala of tortillas,
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: I wish that the people that are consuming our products are making these questions
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: and are having more awareness of what they're eating.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we have this also motivation to make more awareness and more awareness.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we can maybe change just one person that are asking other questions,
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: that will be something that is good for us.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the more projects that start doing that, maybe more in the times to come, we will see these changes.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: especially from these new generations.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important for them to know all this diversity and not to forget also what
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: their ancestors used to eat.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: until now that that you exist that there were something that were sustaining um in
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: terms of of food on your ancestors so yeah it's it's a it's very difficult but i
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: think that it's possible to to make changes and like i think last week i wrote uh
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: debbie fadul and i told her i was um interviewing you that we were interviewing you
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: and i asked her
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: what I should ask you in one of the things she said was to ask you,
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: why do only women work at El Comalote?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: in in Guatemala,
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: the tortilla making technique and process is something that it's a woman's territory,
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: like maybe
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: you can see a man doing tortillas something that you can find but it's not very
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: usual or in tortillas you won't see any any men so that's why we started just being
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: a woman and now we are a big group of just women we are now 12 women working in
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: in the tortilleria and it's very,
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very grateful for my,
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: for the team that we,
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: all the things that we are building together.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: it's very satisfying to work together as women,
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: but there are also a lot of challenges because in terms of work,
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: women,
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: when they end their work at El Comalote,
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: they start the other work that is in their homes with their families.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's difficult to find this balance because now we have some
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: men added to the team uh but they don't have i see now like more clear with all
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: these differences because most of them go to their houses and they just go to you
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: know relax and the the work day it's end it's ended but for women it's not like
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: that
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: and they have a lot of responsibilities in their houses.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something that we are working on in El Comalote
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: to have more flexibility in their times because they most of the time they have to
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: see for the children so they need more time they need different things that um the
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: men that worked with us don't need um that's something and
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: For me,
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: they have all my admiration and respect because they talking about resistance,
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: they have resist this handmade technique of making the tortillas that if you think
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: about it,
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: it's the way that
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thousands of years ago we were eating the tortillas like that and we still nowadays
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: eat the tortillas made by hand so it's something that it's not a It's something
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: that I admire but I also know that it's not just something like beautiful but it's
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: something that that includes a lot of political struggle
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: This resistance is something that you have to see also when you are eating a
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: tortilla because it's not just beautiful to see all these women working together
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: and doing the tortillas,
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: but it's something that represents a lot of struggle.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking a few days ago with a sociologist and she said to me,
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: she's also a feminist,
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: and she said,
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know that tortillas are not well paid because the ones that are doing the
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: tortillas are women.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: imagine if the ones that were making tortillas were men do you think that the price
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: will be the same and i was thinking like oh and i started thinking about also the
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: bakeries because here in guatemala bakeries are more just you can see more men like
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: working bakeries and you can see the the difference in price between bread and
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: tortilla even though the even though corn it's um
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: more expensive than the ingredients that you use to make bread.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for me,
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: it's a very huge responsibility to have this project in where all the women are
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: working because
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: And especially because I'm a woman also,
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: so I want to make a safe place for them,
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: for my daughter.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's also a woman.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: And to help them have a more balanced life and to be able to...
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: have a well-paid salary for the job that they are doing to respect all this work
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: that they do so these are like something that also motivates me a lot um guides my
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: my work in el comalote it's not just the corn and that it's very important for us
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: because it's the the special ingredient that we use
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: but also their responsibility of having all these women working with me together as a team.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking,
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: awareness of all the different lives,
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_02: obviously gender issues,
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: inequality,
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: the things we know.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_02: make part of this complicated situation but i also think that because i was
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: thinking about this contradiction we we understand diversity when it's to our
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: service so we want more you know like more more foods more different types of so
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: our curiosity seems to work when it comes to that
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: But we reject diversity when it's about not availability or bananas that are not
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: perfect or,
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: beans that are not the same size or that are ugly because,
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: ugly in terms of what we have to find is beautiful and not.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I think beyond that,
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: obviously inequality,
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: that lack of value we give to certain roles and the labor of women in this case,
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it depends on how we imagine in the world.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_02: If it's to our service, if it's like an anthropocentric way of saying it, then we are fine.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: But if we have to understand that we are just one more thing that is part of the ecosystem,
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_02: then that's the shift.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the deepest shift we need to make apart from all these,
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: complications with the human race.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I think once we understand that,
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's easier to connect with the farmers,
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_02: to collaborate,
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: to value every single piece of all these complicated chains.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, I don't know, it's a matter of time, but we all need to
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think take in that we are part of an ecosystem and just one more thing.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: And how are we contributing to the ecosystem and know how the ecosystem serves us?
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's when we are perfectly fine with diversity and all that.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was just,
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think Gabby is working on all this and that's the direction I think she's like
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: pointing to.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I keep thinking how to echo that from our capability and understanding of
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: people that are doing much more than we do.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a lot of questions.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of things to think about and
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: try to do I don't know it seems overwhelming at times but then I see how something
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: like a tortilla shop can you know the big changes that can happen just from you
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: know trying to make a better tortilla and it makes me think that you know
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: anything's possible but at the same time you know on a happy note it's so simple so
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: beautiful I was thinking the other day seeing one of the documentaries
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's so simple and so fulfilling and filling.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: A good tortilla made in the right way with the right corn.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need much more than that.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, they're amazing.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's few things that taste better than a warm tortilla made from good corn.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you really don't need anything else.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so perfect.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the more we value that, then we need less.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: You were talking about the documentary that... Yeah, the one from National Geographic that was then.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I watched that too.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was nice with you and Debbie.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think it's... Sometimes we like to complicate.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: But food, I think we are born to eat.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like food, it's basically, it's so simple at the end.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: We have turned all the process of growing food so difficult because when you think
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: about cultivating something,
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: you start thinking like,
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: oh my God,
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: like how I'm going to grow corn and all the process.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, it's a lot of process and all that.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: but it's simple at the end because it's something that it's meant to be simple
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: because other ways we won't be here we like we exist because we eat since every
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: like since the world's world we've been eating so
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that all this chain that now supplies the food,
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's complicated because,
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: like because of the mass,
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: it's consumption,
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: yes,
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: also like trying to to say like okay um it's like saying like i'm going to sell
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: tortillas and i want to sell tortillas to the whole world and it will be just my
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_01: tortillas like anyone can eat other tortilla
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: rather than the El Comalote's tortilla, just mine.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where everything is complicated because then I will start making something.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So other people that are making tortillas, I want them to forget how to do it.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to have the knowledge just me and everyone else, no.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end, it's not difficult.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not difficult if the food is just for your family.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: what it's difficult is to have this huge chain to give food to everyone.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: That nowadays we live in this system because we are not any more responsible of
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: cultivating our food because years ago,
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: everything,
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_01: we went apart from this process.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's very simple.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you just put, like, I like to say chiles.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Here in Guatemala, we have chiltepe, that it's a little chile.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: chile that we use a lot and it's native from here so you just if you are eating
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: this chile you can preserve one and you can put it in you know the earth and it
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_01: will start growing and then you have chile chiltepa in your house without doing
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: anything i have it in my garden and i don't put
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: even water because it's because it's native from here.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it notes that when it's adapt to the rainy season in Guatemala, and I have this Chile in my house.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not something that it's meant to be difficult.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, as you say, I think we are wrong by thinking that it's difficult.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it should be very simple.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we can start with these little things that we can have in our houses to see that food grows.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something very beautiful when it's something that you cultivated from your hands.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just planting seeds.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a profound statement, act.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a metaphor for so many things and just a little seed and it can have a giant effect.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Amanda, Abby, thank you so much.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was a pleasure speaking with you.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you in Antigua sometime.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Please come to visit.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the time.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's also I like these spaces because I also take the time to
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: not to think about these things because when you are in the,
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: working every day,
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes you forget to have this boss and to talk about this topic.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for, for having me.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you're always welcome here in Antigua and El Comalote also.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hope to, to meet you, Juliana also.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: See you soon.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: See you soon, guys.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, everyone, for listening.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed that episode with Gabriela Perdomo from El Comalote in Antigua, Guatemala.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks to Juliana Duque, my co-host.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thanks to Pat Buzzard, who made the music to the show.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's a rock star in Columbus, Ohio.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's awesome.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Look him up if you're ever in Ohio.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribe to the newsletter.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Check us out on YouTube.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Share us, like us.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Every little bit helps.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_00: See you soon.