Latest / The Becket Cook Show / Angels, Demons & UFO's with Billy Hallowell

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Angels, Demons & UFO's with Billy Hallowell · The Becket Cook Show

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Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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Speaker 2: You are listening to The Beckett Cook Show with your
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Speaker 2: host Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,
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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, welcome to the show today. My guest is
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Speaker 3: Billy Hallowell and he has a new documentary out which
0:44
Speaker 3: is fascinating. I just watched it and it's called Investigating
0:48
Speaker 3: the Supernatural Angels and Demons. And Billy has been on
0:54
Speaker 3: the show before. If you don't know, Billy Hollowell writes
0:57
Speaker 3: for cbnsfaithwire dot com. Also been working in journalism and
1:02
Speaker 3: media for more than a decade and he's written several books.
1:06
Speaker 3: He also works for CBN News. So I'm excited to
1:10
Speaker 3: get into this because there are some really fascinating parts
1:15
Speaker 3: of this documentary. I mean, the whole documentary is fascinating,
1:17
Speaker 3: but there we're going to talk about some fascinating moments
1:21
Speaker 3: from the documentary and aspects of it. But first award
1:25
Speaker 3: from our sponsor, Please welcome Billy Hallowell.
1:29
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me.
1:30
Speaker 3: Good to have you on. I just watched the documentary
1:34
Speaker 3: yesterday or was it two days ago, and I was
1:37
Speaker 3: riveted to it. I mean, it was so good. It's
1:41
Speaker 3: investigating the supernatural angels and demons. Now, why this doc Now?
1:48
Speaker 3: Why did you get interested in this? I know you've
1:50
Speaker 3: been interested in supernatural stuff before, but talk about why
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Speaker 3: this now?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we were kind of thinking a couple
1:57
Speaker 4: of years back in twenty twenty three. We're like, we're
1:59
Speaker 4: going to do a TV show. Let's do a TV show.
2:01
Speaker 4: We'll do three episodes. We'll hit all the things that
2:03
Speaker 4: really matter, miracles, heaven and hell, angels and demons.
2:07
Speaker 1: And you know, we just.
2:09
Speaker 4: Realized as we were doing the Miracles documentary, which you
2:11
Speaker 4: have me on last year to talk about, that you
2:13
Speaker 4: can't really do a thirty minute episode and justify and
2:16
Speaker 4: really do justice too miracles or angels and demons, they're
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Speaker 4: just the stories are just too big, they're too crazy,
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Speaker 4: there's too much evidence, and so we decided to turn
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Speaker 4: that into a feature film series, which at the time
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Speaker 4: I was thinking, there's no way we're going to make
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Speaker 4: three films, like this is ridiculous, Like it's a miracle
2:32
Speaker 4: to get one film done, but you know, we really
2:36
Speaker 4: felt strongly that the second film should be Angels and Demons.
2:40
Speaker 4: And it is interesting how God lines things up because
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Speaker 4: I think right now and I love I'd love to
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Speaker 4: get your opinion on this, but we're really living in
2:48
Speaker 4: a world where Ephesian six, that battle between good and evil,
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Speaker 4: it feels more intense than it has in my lifetime ever.
2:55
Speaker 4: There's nothing new under the sun, but there's an intensity
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Speaker 4: to it, like the good and the bad, the evil
3:00
Speaker 4: the good that is just ramping up at the same
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Speaker 4: time with assassination attempts and assassinations and chaos and then
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Speaker 4: revival on the other side, you know, or at least
3:09
Speaker 4: murmurings of revival. So we felt like it was a
3:11
Speaker 4: good time for us to look at what is actually
3:14
Speaker 4: going on beneath the surface, and so that sort of
3:16
Speaker 4: drove our quest to dive into this particular topic.
3:19
Speaker 3: And did you I mean, this is an off topic,
3:22
Speaker 3: but well not really off topic, but Michael Heiser was
3:25
Speaker 3: on the show and he wrote a book on called Angels,
3:28
Speaker 3: and he wrote another book called Demons, and we taught
3:31
Speaker 3: have you read those books.
3:33
Speaker 4: I've read The Unseen Realm, which is another one of
3:35
Speaker 4: his Yeah, yeah, he's fascinating.
3:38
Speaker 3: He's fascinating. He didn't have it.
3:39
Speaker 2: Now.
3:40
Speaker 3: The people you interview on this in the stock are
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Speaker 3: really extraordinary. People talk about who you interview because like
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Speaker 3: it's Lee Strobel, Krai Kener, Sam, you know Sam Storms,
3:51
Speaker 3: et cetera. Like, so give us kind of their backgrounds.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so we wanted to have a cross
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Speaker 4: section of people, right, I think everbody knows, you know,
4:01
Speaker 4: Lee's Strobel, They know him from the Case for Christ, right.
4:03
Speaker 4: They A lot of people know John Burke. And what's
4:06
Speaker 4: interesting about John Burke is that he actually has spent
4:09
Speaker 4: probably more time than almost anyone looking at near death experiences,
4:12
Speaker 4: which will be our next film, Heaven in Hell. And so,
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Speaker 4: you know, we really wanted a cross section of people
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Speaker 4: who would look at these issues in a creative way,
4:21
Speaker 4: would help us sort of form narratives because one of
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Speaker 4: the biggest challenges with angels and demons is there are
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Speaker 4: a lot of questions that people have, Right, what are demons?
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Speaker 1: That's one big question.
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Speaker 4: I think all of us have been sort of conditioned
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Speaker 4: to believe that demons are And by the way, this
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Speaker 4: is I think the majority of you they're fallen angels.
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Speaker 1: Will others take a different view.
4:39
Speaker 4: Michael Heiser, for instance, took the you know, disembodied spirits
4:42
Speaker 4: of the nepheline theory, and so we address some of
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Speaker 4: that without going too crazy in the film. So that's
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Speaker 4: just one question. So we wanted people who could kind
4:51
Speaker 4: of dig in on the angel front. You know Judith McNutt,
4:54
Speaker 4: who is somebody I had heard of but didn't know
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Speaker 4: a lot about, and she's an expert on angels. She's
5:00
Speaker 4: also a licensed psychotherapist, right, so you have the really
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Speaker 4: interesting cross sections of people. Doctor Richard Gallagher who has
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Speaker 4: probably looked at more possession cases than almost anyone else,
5:12
Speaker 4: or more claims of possession, and he's a psychiatrist based
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Speaker 4: in New York, Ivy League educated, teaches at Columbia University.
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Speaker 4: But he believes that demons are real and he has
5:21
Speaker 4: spent three decades investigating and looking at that and the
5:25
Speaker 4: nature of them. So a lot of different people from
5:27
Speaker 4: a lot of different walks of life, and then obviously
5:31
Speaker 4: interview subjects people who have gone through through either dealing
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Speaker 4: with angels or demons. So that's sort of a thirty
5:36
Speaker 4: thousand foot view. But yeah, we really wanted credible people
5:40
Speaker 4: who could speak to these issues in a unique way.
5:43
Speaker 3: And yeah, I want to get into some of their
5:45
Speaker 3: the stories of from their interviews. But Hugh Ross talks
5:50
Speaker 3: about and he Ross has been on the show before.
5:52
Speaker 3: He Ross is a Is he an astrophysicist.
5:55
Speaker 1: Or what is the astrophysicist? Yeah, he's an astrophysicist.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's very smart, and he talks about you guys
6:02
Speaker 3: talk about UFOs and maybe do you talk about aliens
6:09
Speaker 3: as well or just UFOs?
6:11
Speaker 4: So yeah, we talk a little bit about aliens and UFOs.
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Speaker 4: And it's funny because when we were making this film
6:17
Speaker 4: over a year ago, when we were starting to talk
6:19
Speaker 4: about it, we were not thinking, Okay, we knew that
6:22
Speaker 4: disclosure was a thing that people were starting to talk
6:24
Speaker 4: about it, but we didn't realize that we would be
6:26
Speaker 4: releasing it. Literally as jd Vance, the Vice President of
6:29
Speaker 4: the United States, is out there saying, I don't believe
6:31
Speaker 4: they're aliens.
6:32
Speaker 1: I think they're demons. Right.
6:34
Speaker 4: So we wanted to bring in Hugh Ross because he
6:38
Speaker 4: is an astrophysicist. He's very smart, and his perspective on this,
6:42
Speaker 4: which he unpacks in the film, is that aliens and UFOs. Now,
6:46
Speaker 4: he first will say, the vast majority of these things
6:48
Speaker 4: can be explained naturally, right, all these claims, the vast majority,
6:52
Speaker 4: But there is a residual proportion. It's small that can't
6:55
Speaker 4: be And that proportion, he would say, is demonic. That
6:59
Speaker 4: you're not actually dealing with real, real aliens, with real UFOs.
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Speaker 4: You're dealing with a spiritual manifestation that is interdimensional and
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Speaker 4: that is demonic and is sort of deceiving people to
7:11
Speaker 4: believe that they are aliens, either intentionally or inadvertently, probably intentionally.
7:16
Speaker 4: And that is a really interesting theory. So to have
7:18
Speaker 4: the Vice President of the United States say that in
7:21
Speaker 4: an interview is actually pretty remarkable and pretty well. We
7:25
Speaker 4: could not I could not have guessed that it would
7:27
Speaker 4: not have been on my BINGO card even two months ago.
7:29
Speaker 3: Well, I've I mean i've for the longest time. I've
7:33
Speaker 3: I've believed at least for the last I don't know,
7:36
Speaker 3: five years, or since I've been a Christian, Like uh,
7:40
Speaker 3: I've been a Christian for seventeen years, but like the
7:42
Speaker 3: last five years, I've believed. I've come to believe that
7:46
Speaker 3: it's demonic like aliens or you know, sightings of UFOs.
7:50
Speaker 3: Those kinds of things are all demonic, and they're all
7:53
Speaker 3: they're all meant to lead us astray and deceive us.
7:56
Speaker 3: And but what's interesting is Hugh Ross talked this was
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Speaker 3: like fascinating to me. He talked about that people who
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Speaker 3: report seeing UFOs never hear a sonic boom, even though
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Speaker 3: these UFOs travel at like seventeen thousand miles per hour
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Speaker 3: or whatever it is.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, okay, never hear a sonic boom. And that's
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Speaker 4: just one part of this, because there's some other elements
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Speaker 4: here that are really really interesting. You would hear a
8:22
Speaker 4: sonic boom if it's a physical object going through the skies.
8:25
Speaker 4: And by the way, I agree with you. I tend
8:27
Speaker 4: to in this series we don't really tell people what
8:29
Speaker 4: to think. What we do is we present evidence and
8:31
Speaker 4: let them make a decision. But I think on this front, personally,
8:35
Speaker 4: I agree because it's not just that, it's also this
8:37
Speaker 4: issue of people who claim to have had alien encounters
8:40
Speaker 4: of the of the first kind, right where they've been
8:43
Speaker 4: abducted or they've had this experience.
8:45
Speaker 1: I mean, ten years ago, this would have been wackuld do.
8:48
Speaker 4: It would have sounded so crazy and only very few
8:50
Speaker 4: people would have believed it, and now the majority of
8:52
Speaker 4: the country believes that there are aliens and that something
8:54
Speaker 4: is going on here. So I love that we're talking
8:56
Speaker 4: about it because it's important.
8:57
Speaker 1: But those people.
8:58
Speaker 4: Who have those interactions with what they believe to be aliens,
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Speaker 4: those interactions are remarkably negative. They are never positive, and
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Speaker 4: they mirror exactly what happens when a person is possessed
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Speaker 4: or dealing with a demon, and so you have to
9:12
Speaker 4: start asking questions about that, Well, why is that? Why
9:15
Speaker 4: is that the case? There's mind reading going on and
9:18
Speaker 4: weird communication going on. It mirrors exactly what we would
9:21
Speaker 4: see in the demonic realm. And so one other thing
9:26
Speaker 4: is that there are some claims of studies that show
9:28
Speaker 4: that after you go through an experience like that, you
9:31
Speaker 4: have a higher chance of being suicidal, like suicidal ideation
9:34
Speaker 4: goes up. So something disturbing is happening to these people
9:38
Speaker 4: who are claiming to have this interaction as well. So
9:40
Speaker 4: there are a lot of other pieces, but that's another
9:42
Speaker 4: one that was pretty compelling.
9:44
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this short break, And yeah,
9:48
Speaker 3: because he mentions that people who have these close see
9:52
Speaker 3: he says close encounters with a third kind, which are
9:55
Speaker 3: encounters with a third kind. I don't even know what
9:57
Speaker 3: does that mean? Third kind?
9:59
Speaker 4: I mean, I've I heard it worded so many different,
10:01
Speaker 4: so many different ways. I think it's like it's sort
10:04
Speaker 4: of another encounter you wouldn't typically have, you know, I've
10:06
Speaker 4: heard of the of the close kind, the third kind.
10:09
Speaker 4: The reality is these people think that they're having some
10:12
Speaker 4: kind of interaction with another species. I don't even know
10:15
Speaker 4: if that's the right word, right, that God created. Now
10:17
Speaker 4: there are some Christians who believe this too. And this
10:19
Speaker 4: is where this gets really interesting, and this is where
10:22
Speaker 4: we're going to have to have answers. Because it used
10:24
Speaker 4: to be that we could sit back and we could
10:26
Speaker 4: kind of laugh some of this stuff off, right, We
10:28
Speaker 4: could be like, oh, that's ridiculous, Right, there's no such
10:30
Speaker 4: thing as aliens.
10:31
Speaker 1: We don't need to talk about it.
10:32
Speaker 4: But the Church Christians are going to have to have
10:35
Speaker 4: a position on this because you have numerous you have
10:38
Speaker 4: a president and a former president who are talking about this,
10:41
Speaker 4: you have culture talking about it, people believing it, and unfortunately,
10:45
Speaker 4: on the demonic realm, when we could talk about this,
10:47
Speaker 4: the church has sort of stepped back and allowed culture
10:50
Speaker 4: to speak into that so much that they're owning that topic.
10:53
Speaker 4: I'm afraid we're going to do the same thing with aliens.
10:55
Speaker 4: We really can't do that. We have to be prepared
10:58
Speaker 4: with a response. And again there may be debate. There
11:01
Speaker 4: are some there are some Christians who host popular podcasts
11:03
Speaker 4: who actually believe that aliens exist, and there are many
11:06
Speaker 4: who don't. I in the category of I think they're
11:09
Speaker 4: I think this is demonic.
11:10
Speaker 1: I agree with Jade Vance.
11:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I and I think the purpose behind it
11:14
Speaker 3: is and I mentioned deception, but I think the deception
11:17
Speaker 3: is that humans are not exceptional and that they're, you know,
11:22
Speaker 3: God like, we're not special in in God's creation, and
11:27
Speaker 3: that's I think that's the real deception. But yeah, you
11:31
Speaker 3: mentioned you kind of sort of mentioned this. But Hugh
11:35
Speaker 3: Ross mentions that most of these people who've had these
11:40
Speaker 3: encounters with the third kind have dabbled in the occult,
11:44
Speaker 3: which is very interesting because I that's that is very telling.
11:50
Speaker 4: Or somebody around them has. Yeah, so the the idea
11:53
Speaker 4: rare than is that the right the door has been open.
11:56
Speaker 4: But the other thing about this his claim also and
11:59
Speaker 4: I've seen, I mean numerous people claim this, and I
12:01
Speaker 4: would love. We need more research actually on some of this,
12:04
Speaker 4: because not just those individuals, but the geographic locations where
12:08
Speaker 4: a cult activity is higher. In those locations, more people
12:11
Speaker 4: are reporting alien you know, interactions in UFOs. So that
12:15
Speaker 4: would also make more sense. Right, if you're opening a
12:17
Speaker 4: doorway to the occult in some ways, and you're doing
12:20
Speaker 4: some of this, you're actually creating a situation where suddenly
12:25
Speaker 4: more people in your area believe.
12:26
Speaker 1: They're seeing UFOs.
12:27
Speaker 4: The deception becomes even greater for those people and in
12:30
Speaker 4: those locations. And I think for anybody who's struggling with
12:33
Speaker 4: this too, like what does the Bible tell us? The
12:34
Speaker 4: Bible tells us Satan comes to kill, steel, destroy, and confuse,
12:38
Speaker 4: And so that is exactly what this is. It is
12:40
Speaker 4: a confusing deception. And what you said is so important too, like, oh, well,
12:45
Speaker 4: we're not special. There's something else that's more special than
12:47
Speaker 4: we are, right, or more unique than we are. And
12:49
Speaker 4: so I think we have to take all that into
12:52
Speaker 4: account and understand that if aliens do exist, you're really
12:56
Speaker 4: left with one of two options. They're robots with no
12:58
Speaker 4: free will, right, because they couldn't have free will, and
13:00
Speaker 4: they would just have to be like animals essentially, or
13:03
Speaker 4: if they have free will, Jesus would have had to
13:05
Speaker 4: have died for them too, And I don't know where
13:06
Speaker 4: that fits in with the framework here at all.
13:08
Speaker 1: I mean, so those are really your only options.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of like the belief in the aliens,
13:14
Speaker 3: Like it's sort of Buttress's Darwinism in a way and materialism.
13:20
Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of like, if there's aliens, then
13:23
Speaker 3: there probably isn't a god because there's two. It's too confusing.
13:27
Speaker 3: You're right, It's like Satan confuses us with us. Tell
13:30
Speaker 3: us a story about this was fascinating to me. I
13:35
Speaker 3: was when Hugh Ross went to speak in the former
13:39
Speaker 3: Soviet Union. What happened? Who did he speak to? In?
13:43
Speaker 3: What happened during that talk?
13:46
Speaker 1: It is? It is wild.
13:48
Speaker 4: And by the way, what I love about investigating supernatural
13:51
Speaker 4: is that we get to do reenactment, so we're kind
13:53
Speaker 4: of showing you what it might have looked like. So
13:54
Speaker 4: you're referring to a scene that is actually pretty wild.
13:57
Speaker 4: And I wasn't there when they filmed it. I wish
13:58
Speaker 4: I was, because it looked really interesting to film. But
14:01
Speaker 4: you know, he was invited to the USSR and at
14:04
Speaker 4: that time, they were engaged in occult science. They were
14:06
Speaker 4: trying to use the occult to gain an advantage as
14:09
Speaker 4: a country, which is incredibly wild and I can't even
14:12
Speaker 4: imagine what people were being opened up to with the
14:15
Speaker 4: government actually relying on the occult to try to accomplish things.
14:19
Speaker 1: We see this happen, by the way.
14:20
Speaker 4: I mean there are times that police departments will bring
14:22
Speaker 4: in psychics to try to solve cases. I mean, this
14:24
Speaker 4: is not this is something that does happen, and it's
14:26
Speaker 4: very dangerous and it's wild to me that this is
14:28
Speaker 4: something that credible people are doing. But they will do it,
14:32
Speaker 4: and they'll do it because they'll see something happen.
14:34
Speaker 1: As a result of it. And we can kind of
14:36
Speaker 1: talk about some of that.
14:36
Speaker 4: But he ends up going to deliver this speech and
14:39
Speaker 4: he's sharing the Gospel essentially as he's talking about science
14:43
Speaker 4: with these government officials and these people there in the USSR,
14:47
Speaker 4: and they start manifesting and freaking out while he's giving
14:51
Speaker 4: this speech, and I mean like one third of the room,
14:54
Speaker 4: a substantial chunk of the room. And he said they
14:56
Speaker 4: were saying the most hideous things about Jesus. It wasn't
14:58
Speaker 4: just like they were yelling at him, they were saying
15:01
Speaker 4: demonically inspired things, and so he couldn't even finish the
15:04
Speaker 4: talk what he had to do and this is so
15:07
Speaker 4: it's so interesting. He leaves the room and he finds this.
15:10
Speaker 4: He has this other Christian who's on the trip with him,
15:12
Speaker 4: and he goes back the next day to try again.
15:15
Speaker 1: And what the guy, the guy.
15:16
Speaker 4: Who goes with him does is he sits in the
15:18
Speaker 4: back of the room and starts praying against these demonic forces.
15:22
Speaker 4: And Hugh is able to get through his speech that day.
15:26
Speaker 4: And you know, he talked about going back to the
15:28
Speaker 4: USSR years later after that occult science activity was done
15:32
Speaker 4: and he didn't have that same experience. But as you're
15:35
Speaker 4: watching this unfold, you're thinking, my goodness, what in the
15:38
Speaker 4: world is happening.
15:39
Speaker 1: But look that mirrors again.
15:41
Speaker 4: And for those who struggle on this demonic issue, for
15:44
Speaker 4: those who struggle to think, okay, is this really still happening,
15:48
Speaker 4: read the Bible. All of the accounts of you know,
15:51
Speaker 4: the demonic in possession are way more terrifying than what's
15:54
Speaker 4: even seen in that scene.
15:55
Speaker 1: I mean, they're very, very scary.
15:57
Speaker 4: You've got a story about a little boy being round
16:00
Speaker 4: in the water and being thrown into fire by the
16:02
Speaker 4: demons You've got, you know, the men coming out of
16:05
Speaker 4: the caves, you know, absolutely out of control with supernatural strength.
16:09
Speaker 1: So anyway, it's a wild, wild story and it was
16:12
Speaker 1: pretty incredible to hear directly from him on it.
16:15
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, and who is talk about Doctor Richard Gallagher?
16:21
Speaker 3: Who is he and what does he do? Okay?
16:25
Speaker 4: So doctor Gallagher is somebody I encountered years ago for
16:28
Speaker 4: the first time. So it was really interesting to kind
16:30
Speaker 4: of circle back with him because he is a psychiatrist
16:36
Speaker 4: in New York. I'm in New York here, he's right
16:38
Speaker 4: outside of New York City and he teaches at Columbia.
16:41
Speaker 4: He is somebody who was a skeptic. He grew up
16:44
Speaker 4: Catholic and was pretty much nominal but pretty skeptical. Once
16:48
Speaker 4: he reached his adult years and was practicing as a psychiatrist,
16:51
Speaker 4: he was approached by the Catholic Church and this is
16:53
Speaker 4: about thirty years ago, and they said to him, look,
16:55
Speaker 4: we want you to come in and be the person
16:57
Speaker 4: who looks at different cases and says, Okay, that person's
17:00
Speaker 4: either possessed or they're crazy. Right, they're dealing with a
17:03
Speaker 4: mental health issue or there. And so he was like, look,
17:06
Speaker 4: I don't want to do that because I'm a skeptic
17:08
Speaker 4: and I'm not the right person for it. And they
17:10
Speaker 4: were like, no, no, no, you are absolutely the right
17:13
Speaker 4: person because you are skeptical. So he agrees to do it,
17:18
Speaker 4: and he ends up on an incredible journey because very
17:21
Speaker 4: quickly he goes from a skeptic to a believer once
17:23
Speaker 4: he starts seeing some of these patients and individuals and
17:26
Speaker 4: starts interacting with them.
17:28
Speaker 1: And I mean, let's I.
17:30
Speaker 4: Guess we could talk about do you want to talk
17:31
Speaker 4: about Julia? Because I know you saw the film, so you.
17:33
Speaker 1: Want to talk a little bit about you talk about Julia? Okay.
17:36
Speaker 4: So one of the cases that convinced him. There were
17:38
Speaker 4: a number of cases leading up that convinced him that
17:41
Speaker 4: the demonic was real, but this woman, Julia. He called
17:45
Speaker 4: her case a once in a century case. And when
17:48
Speaker 4: he said that, of course, I'm like my eyebrows go up.
17:50
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, I want to hear this right, because
17:51
Speaker 4: I go into this skeptical every time. To a degree,
17:54
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, is this really true?
17:55
Speaker 1: Now?
17:56
Speaker 4: Julia was a satan worshiper. She was in a cult,
17:59
Speaker 4: and so a lot of people, and I think it's
18:01
Speaker 4: important to differentiate these things. There are people who face
18:04
Speaker 4: oppression which is not possession, and that any of us
18:06
Speaker 4: could face that it's evil sort of pushing in on us,
18:09
Speaker 4: trying to get at us.
18:10
Speaker 1: It's spiritual warfare.
18:11
Speaker 4: She was dealing with full on possession she had because
18:15
Speaker 4: she was worshiping Satan. She had allowed the devil in. Essentially,
18:19
Speaker 4: she had demons in her and she was blacking out
18:22
Speaker 4: and essentially not in control of her body. And so
18:26
Speaker 4: the night the morning that she comes to him for
18:28
Speaker 4: the first time, to doctor Gallagher, the night before, he
18:31
Speaker 4: and his wife were in bed sleeping and they wake
18:33
Speaker 4: up and their cats are going crazy. Their cats are fighting,
18:36
Speaker 4: and his wife is like, this is so weird. Our
18:38
Speaker 4: cats never do this. This is strange. So they separate
18:40
Speaker 4: the cats out. He has no idea that this woman's
18:43
Speaker 4: coming to his house. The next morning, the doorbell rings.
18:46
Speaker 4: You've got the priest there with Julia, and he's like, hi,
18:49
Speaker 4: you know, doctor Gallagher, here's Julia.
18:50
Speaker 1: He introduces them.
18:52
Speaker 4: One of the first things that she says to doctor
18:54
Speaker 4: Gallagher is, how did you like what I did with
18:56
Speaker 4: the cats last night, and so you can imagine Gallagher,
19:00
Speaker 4: You're like, I don't know this woman, what in the
19:02
Speaker 4: world is going on? And that was just the start
19:05
Speaker 4: of it. I mean, there were a number of things
19:06
Speaker 4: that happened, and some of them we didn't include in
19:09
Speaker 4: the film. One of them, she had the ability and
19:12
Speaker 4: by the way, you might be wondering, why is she
19:14
Speaker 4: going to this doctor into a priest to get help.
19:16
Speaker 4: Even though she enjoyed the abilities she had from the possession,
19:20
Speaker 4: and there were some abilities I'm about to talk about,
19:23
Speaker 4: she also wanted freedom. She recognized that she was losing
19:27
Speaker 4: control to these entities that she had allowed into her body.
19:31
Speaker 4: Now she liked the power, right, she liked the power.
19:35
Speaker 4: She liked the power, but also wanted freedom. And it's
19:37
Speaker 4: actually a really sad story for so many reasons because
19:41
Speaker 4: and people can watch the film to see the rest
19:43
Speaker 4: of it.
19:43
Speaker 1: But she doesn't really have the ending we would hope for.
19:46
Speaker 4: But she's, you know, before that, trying to sort of
19:49
Speaker 4: deal with these things with doctor Gallagher. One of the
19:51
Speaker 4: things we didn't include in the film that was very
19:54
Speaker 4: interesting is she could astro project and that may be
19:57
Speaker 4: something unfamiliar to people. So just to explain it, she
19:59
Speaker 4: could be in a room talking to you and she
20:02
Speaker 4: could tell you what the priest was doing one thousand
20:05
Speaker 4: miles away or two hundred miles away. She could describe
20:08
Speaker 4: what he was wearing. And this sounds like sci fi,
20:10
Speaker 4: like is this really real? But I've interviewed numerous people
20:13
Speaker 4: who have had this ability. We'll call it it's demonically inspired.
20:18
Speaker 4: So she's telling doctor Gallagher one day, I know where
20:20
Speaker 4: the priest is. He's walking near the river, he's wearing
20:23
Speaker 4: a blue windbreaker, and she's describing all these things, and
20:26
Speaker 4: doctor Gallagher's thinking, okay, Julia whatever. He calls the priest
20:30
Speaker 4: and he says to the priest, hey, where are you
20:32
Speaker 4: right now?
20:32
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
20:33
Speaker 4: And every single thing that she described was accurate to
20:37
Speaker 4: what was happening, including what he was wearing in that moment.
20:40
Speaker 4: When you're dealing with a possession to that degree, it's
20:44
Speaker 4: very severe. And so doctor Gallagher came to start seeing
20:47
Speaker 4: the evidence and realizing that. And I could go on
20:50
Speaker 4: and on about Julia, but her story is heartbreaking again
20:52
Speaker 4: because she did not get the healing that part of
20:55
Speaker 4: her really had initially sought.
20:58
Speaker 3: Yeah. Ye, So well, let's go to a happier note.
21:02
Speaker 3: Let's turn to angels. Now. Talk about Judith McNutt. She's
21:07
Speaker 3: a psychotherapist and her was Judith the one who went
21:12
Speaker 3: was in Israel and her life was saved and is okay?
21:16
Speaker 3: Talk about her and who she is. Yeah.
21:19
Speaker 4: So Judith McNutt is very interesting. She was married to
21:22
Speaker 4: Francis McNutt, who was a Catholic priest. This is very
21:25
Speaker 4: interesting during the charismatic Catholic movement and I don't know
21:28
Speaker 4: the timeline, and probably.
21:29
Speaker 1: In the seventies he left the Catholic priestsa because.
21:32
Speaker 4: He met Judith and they fell in love, and I
21:35
Speaker 4: don't know the whole timeline, but they fell in love
21:36
Speaker 4: and he left the Catholic church, was no longer a priest,
21:39
Speaker 4: and they got married. But they founded this Christian healing
21:42
Speaker 4: ministry together. And so some of what he had been
21:45
Speaker 4: doing as a Catholic priest in that charismatic movement they
21:47
Speaker 4: sort of carried that on in the Protestant realm. Yeah,
21:50
Speaker 4: and so he's no longer with us, but she is fascinating.
21:53
Speaker 4: She is a registered board certified psychotherapist, so her career
21:59
Speaker 4: started in mental health health, and she what I love
22:01
Speaker 4: about her story is that she was very frustrated seeing patients.
22:05
Speaker 4: She had one patient who committed suicide, and it really
22:07
Speaker 4: bothered her because she's like, I'm doing all this work,
22:10
Speaker 4: I'm trying to help these patients and nothing is working.
22:13
Speaker 4: They're not getting better. And so she started to pray
22:16
Speaker 4: for her patients. She started integrating her faith in and
22:19
Speaker 4: immediately saw wild shifts and changes in them. And so
22:23
Speaker 4: that was before she met her husband and then they
22:26
Speaker 4: founded this ministry. And she shared so many incredible stories
22:30
Speaker 4: in the film, but one of them was, as you
22:32
Speaker 4: were mentioning, she was in Israel, living in Israel, and
22:35
Speaker 4: she was going to meet a friend at a flower
22:37
Speaker 4: shop and she was on her way to this flower
22:40
Speaker 4: shop and she could very strongly hear this voice saying
22:44
Speaker 4: to her, stop, don't go there. And she ignored it first.
22:48
Speaker 1: She's like, what is that?
22:49
Speaker 4: You know, which I think a lot of us if
22:51
Speaker 4: we heard an audible voice, we might ignore it.
22:53
Speaker 1: We might be like, okay, you know. She heard it
22:55
Speaker 1: again and again.
22:56
Speaker 4: It was I think three times she heard it, and
22:58
Speaker 4: she said to her friend who was walking and again
23:00
Speaker 4: they were going to meet another friend she was like,
23:02
Speaker 4: I keep hearing this voice. And they stopped and they prayed,
23:06
Speaker 4: and the friend said, you know what, I think we
23:08
Speaker 4: shouldn't go. I think we should turn back. And just
23:11
Speaker 4: as they were they had stopped to pray, and explosion
23:14
Speaker 4: went off right outside that flower shop where they would
23:17
Speaker 4: have been standing had she not listened to the voice
23:20
Speaker 4: and continued. So she believes that she was saved in
23:23
Speaker 4: that moment by an angel. But here's the crazy thing.
23:25
Speaker 4: The friend they were supposed to meet. Her immediate thought
23:28
Speaker 4: is that friend is dead. That friend was going to
23:30
Speaker 4: be there.
23:31
Speaker 1: She goes to.
23:32
Speaker 4: Another location where where they were going to meet later on,
23:36
Speaker 4: and the friend was there and they give each other
23:37
Speaker 4: a hug and they're elated to see each other. And
23:40
Speaker 4: the friend heard the same voice that told her not
23:43
Speaker 4: to go to that location. And so that was one
23:46
Speaker 4: of the stories that led her onto the path of
23:48
Speaker 4: becoming an expert on angels.
23:50
Speaker 1: And I know when people.
23:52
Speaker 4: Hear that, by the way, when we talk about being
23:53
Speaker 4: an expert on angels, we're not talking New Age. We're
23:55
Speaker 4: talking a biblical understanding of angels, what they are, what
23:59
Speaker 4: they do do, what their purpose is. And so Judith
24:02
Speaker 4: has had an incredible ministry really helping people understand that.
24:08
Speaker 3: Yeah.
24:09
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've.
24:10
Speaker 3: Ever heard of JP Morland's angel stories his story, but
24:16
Speaker 3: he talks about when I was in his class as
24:19
Speaker 3: apologetics class. He told us the story of one day
24:24
Speaker 3: he was lecturing and during the lecture, one of his
24:28
Speaker 3: students his face just went white. He was like his
24:34
Speaker 3: like his eyes got really wide and he just his
24:37
Speaker 3: face just went white. And JP Morland didn't know what
24:41
Speaker 3: was going on. A little while later, I don't know,
24:44
Speaker 3: maybe a month or I can't remember, but that student
24:47
Speaker 3: email JP Moreland and said, Hey, I just want you
24:51
Speaker 3: to know that that day in class, I saw two
24:57
Speaker 3: angels standing behind you. And he described them in detail,
25:02
Speaker 3: like one was taller than the other and blah blah blah,
25:04
Speaker 3: and he described it and JP was like, Wow, that's
25:08
Speaker 3: that's fascinating. And then JP was speaking at a conference
25:13
Speaker 3: later sometime later, I don't know how long later, but
25:18
Speaker 3: and the same thing, the same thing happened someone. I
25:23
Speaker 3: can't remember the exact details, but after the conference, someone
25:26
Speaker 3: came up to him and said, I saw these there's
25:29
Speaker 3: two angels behind you, and describe the exact same thing.
25:32
Speaker 3: The guy in the class did, so that is wild.
25:37
Speaker 3: And the thing is is, like, I find such great
25:40
Speaker 3: comfort in that because you know, God, God's angels minister
25:44
Speaker 3: to us, and and I mean I always pray that
25:48
Speaker 3: I always pray for you know, especially like before bed,
25:50
Speaker 3: I'm like, God, will you just send your angels to
25:52
Speaker 3: like protect me while I'm asleep and minister to me?
25:56
Speaker 3: And so I find that very comforting that we I mean,
26:00
Speaker 3: I think I believe that we all have you know,
26:03
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's guardian angels or whatever, but
26:05
Speaker 3: I believe that there are angels that God sends to
26:10
Speaker 3: minister to us, to protect us, et cetera.
26:12
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely. You know, I got to be honest with you.
26:15
Speaker 4: I love that you just said that because I and
26:17
Speaker 4: I'm ashamed to admit this. Until this documentary, you know,
26:22
Speaker 4: I had not ever prayed. And it was Judith McNutt
26:25
Speaker 4: in her office after we filmed, talking to me about this.
26:28
Speaker 4: I had not ever not I shouldn't stop there.
26:30
Speaker 1: I had prayed.
26:31
Speaker 4: I had never prayed that an angel would come and
26:33
Speaker 4: protect my family or me, that God would send one.
26:36
Speaker 4: Not we don't pray to angels. We asked God to
26:38
Speaker 4: do it. Right, God, send your angels to protect us.
26:40
Speaker 4: I had never done that. And we sat down and
26:42
Speaker 4: we talked it through, and I thought, well, why why
26:44
Speaker 4: would I not do that? Like, what is how silly
26:46
Speaker 4: of me? But I had never really been taught anything
26:49
Speaker 4: more about angels than what we see in scripture, right,
26:52
Speaker 4: And this is the problem with the angels and demon's topic.
26:55
Speaker 4: A lot of churches are not equipping people by talking
26:58
Speaker 4: about how does this apply to today? We're not just
27:00
Speaker 4: reading this book like when we read the Bible, we
27:03
Speaker 4: read it like it's a book that already ended, like
27:05
Speaker 4: it's a book, U, it's this ancient history book. We're
27:08
Speaker 4: in it still, like Ephesian six says, we are in
27:10
Speaker 4: a battle between good and evil, Like we are literally
27:12
Speaker 4: in the middle of that right now. And you can't
27:15
Speaker 4: win a battle you don't know you're in the middle of.
27:17
Speaker 4: And I feel like a lot of us are not
27:20
Speaker 4: equipping other believers to understand that.
27:22
Speaker 1: So anyway, I just wanted to comment on that.
27:23
Speaker 4: I love that you said that because Judith actually got
27:26
Speaker 4: me thinking a lot differently about that. And by the way,
27:30
Speaker 4: there's a story about her praying for a pastor to
27:32
Speaker 4: see angels because he was skeptical, oh right, that they
27:35
Speaker 4: were still around. And it's a pretty cool story about
27:37
Speaker 4: how he wakes up in the middle of the night
27:39
Speaker 4: there's an angel like standing at the foot of his
27:41
Speaker 4: bed and it freaks him out.
27:42
Speaker 1: And then he becomes a huge believer in angels.
27:44
Speaker 3: So yeah, and by the way, I mean in the Gospel,
27:48
Speaker 3: like I think it's Matthew after Jesus is tempted in
27:52
Speaker 3: the wilderness for forty days an he wins, basically, angels
27:57
Speaker 3: come and minister to him, and I thought, you know
28:00
Speaker 3: it's there in scripture and you I'm not. We won't
28:05
Speaker 3: get into this story, but I'll just tease it. I mean,
28:07
Speaker 3: you could just tease the story about Bruce Vanetta. Just
28:11
Speaker 3: give us just a glimpse of it, and then people
28:13
Speaker 3: can watch the documentary just see the whole story.
28:15
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, this is one of my favorite stories, long
28:18
Speaker 4: story short. This is a man who had a near
28:21
Speaker 4: death experience. He saw angels minister to him as he
28:24
Speaker 4: was dead under a truck, a semi truck that collapsed
28:27
Speaker 4: on him, and he had a miracle healing after. I mean,
28:31
Speaker 4: it is it's the trifecta of things. You don't typically
28:34
Speaker 4: get in his story and he is alive and well
28:38
Speaker 4: to tell the story and it's just pretty incredible. And
28:41
Speaker 4: that's sort of where we finish the film, and that
28:43
Speaker 4: will lead us off into our next film again, which
28:45
Speaker 4: is Heaven and Hell and New Death Experiences.
28:49
Speaker 3: Wow. Okay, so where can people now this this doc
28:53
Speaker 3: is out investigating the supernatural Angels and demons is out
28:56
Speaker 3: now right.
28:58
Speaker 4: Yes, and they can go to CBM forward slash Supernatural
29:02
Speaker 4: and you can stream it there. And what's really great
29:05
Speaker 4: is donation of any amounts, So we're not asking you
29:07
Speaker 4: for twenty dollars or thirty dollars. You donate whatever you
29:09
Speaker 4: want and you can stream the film.
29:11
Speaker 3: So yeah, we'll link, we'll link to that blow and uh,
29:18
Speaker 3: I'm excited. When is the next When do you think
29:20
Speaker 3: the next uh the Heaven, the uh the other the
29:25
Speaker 3: next doc in Hell? Heaven in Hell? When do you
29:26
Speaker 3: think that will be released? Like?
29:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it will be probably about March.
29:32
Speaker 4: You know, these typically come out in March, so we're
29:34
Speaker 4: looking at a March of twenty tentatively March or April
29:37
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty seven release on that film. And there's
29:41
Speaker 4: some crazy stories in that when we're we're working at
29:43
Speaker 4: it right now, and it is. It's been amazing being
29:46
Speaker 4: able to tell these stories and work on these projects.
29:49
Speaker 4: It has brought me so much closer to God. And
29:52
Speaker 4: it's interesting that the supernatural would do that. And I
29:54
Speaker 4: don't know why that's surprising to me, but I actually
29:56
Speaker 4: think it's an apologetics tool that we're not using enough.
29:59
Speaker 4: When we have evidence to back it up, right, that's
30:01
Speaker 4: when it becomes a solid apologetics tool.
30:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's watching it is. This documentary is very
30:10
Speaker 3: encouraging because you do you see you you believe that
30:15
Speaker 3: the supernatural realm is there, and so it's not just
30:18
Speaker 3: I mean, because you know, we worship in an invisible God.
30:20
Speaker 3: So sometimes you're just kind of like, it's hard to
30:23
Speaker 3: you know, grasp this, but but it's it's it's very
30:27
Speaker 3: encouraging to your faith to see that these are realities.
30:31
Speaker 3: The supernatural realm is reality, the unseen realm is Michael
30:34
Speaker 3: Heiser would call it, but Billy Hollowell, thank you for
30:38
Speaker 3: coming on. Everyone, Please go to what's the website again.
30:43
Speaker 4: CBN dot com, forward slash Supernatural.
30:46
Speaker 3: And stream this documentary. You're gonna love it, so thank
30:49
Speaker 3: you Billy for coming on. I appreciate it.
30:53
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Beckett
30:56
Speaker 2: Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes
31:01
Speaker 2: of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.
31:05
Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his
31:08
Speaker 2: website at Becketcook dot com.
31:12
Speaker 3: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their
31:14
Speaker 3: partnership with us. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,
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Speaker 3: you will find more faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting,
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Speaker 3: and more.