Transcript

Sharri | 18 September · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Sharry.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good Evening. Welcome to the program tonight. The sophisticated operation
0:11
Speaker 2: that targeted terrorists. Why experts around the world have been
0:15
Speaker 2: flawed by the pager attack that in a moment. Also tonight,
0:19
Speaker 2: Testin Russell will be live on the show as he
0:23
Speaker 2: tears the ABC to pieces. There are now fresh revelations
0:27
Speaker 2: over journalistic misconduct at the public broadcaster. Their war crime
0:31
Speaker 2: reporting is such a disaster that now the Minister is
0:35
Speaker 2: demanding answers. Plus, Penny Wong embarrasses Australia on the world
0:40
Speaker 2: stage refusing to rule out supporting a pro hamas un motion.
0:46
Speaker 2: Dave Sharma, Bridget Mackenzie and Michael Danby will join me
0:49
Speaker 2: to discuss. But first, this is the work of a
0:53
Speaker 2: genius intelligence operation targeting terrorists directly by detonating their personal pages.
1:01
Speaker 2: It doesn't get more sophisticated and surprising than this. And
1:06
Speaker 2: here's how it unfolded. Hesbela terrorists were using low tech
1:11
Speaker 2: pages to evade Israelis tracking their location, and their pages
1:16
Speaker 2: detonated at around three point thirty in the afternoon local time.
1:20
Speaker 2: The terrorists opened a message on their pager that said
1:24
Speaker 2: from Hesbela HQ and then their devices exploded. Here's one
1:31
Speaker 2: Hesbela fighter opening his device at a be Route supermarket.
1:39
Speaker 2: The explosions from the detonations weren't large. You can see
1:42
Speaker 2: this that it was only the person who was holding
1:45
Speaker 2: it who was affected. Now have a look at this
1:49
Speaker 2: next vision in a supermarket, a grocery store. Again it
1:53
Speaker 2: was very targeted. The other two men on the right
1:58
Speaker 2: and the left were on a affected. They were able
2:01
Speaker 2: to run away. It was only the hes Blood terrorist
2:04
Speaker 2: who was holding the pager who was taken down. As
2:09
Speaker 2: a former CIA officer pointed out, this fits with Israel's
2:13
Speaker 2: playbook of trying to avoid civilian casualties.
2:19
Speaker 3: Although Israel has not taken credit for this or responsibility,
2:22
Speaker 3: it's likely Israel. The nature of the technology used, the
2:26
Speaker 3: large number of pagers involved would require an organization with
2:30
Speaker 3: significant intelligence, significant technical capabilities, and a reason to focus
2:35
Speaker 3: on Lebanese has Belah, and also a culture in which
2:38
Speaker 3: they seek to avoid civilian casualties. And this is a
2:42
Speaker 3: very surgical tool aimed at killing only the people who
2:46
Speaker 3: with has Belah.
2:49
Speaker 2: The terrorists could never have seen this coming. The very
2:53
Speaker 2: devices they were using to avoid detection were ultimately ticking
2:58
Speaker 2: time bombs. One of those injured was the Iranian envoy
3:01
Speaker 2: in Lebanon, Moshtaba Amani. You have to wonder why the
3:06
Speaker 2: Iranian envoy had a Hesbela paja. It shows the link
3:10
Speaker 2: pretty clearly between the terrorist outfit, which is funded by Iran.
3:16
Speaker 2: But there were civilian casualties. Sadly, two girls aged eight
3:20
Speaker 2: and ten, along with the son of a Hesbela politician
3:24
Speaker 2: were killed. Three thousand people were injured, mostly on their
3:28
Speaker 2: hands and faces, and we don't quite know how many
3:31
Speaker 2: were terrorists or civilians. But as we said, this was
3:35
Speaker 2: targeted and it looked like just the people holding the devices,
3:38
Speaker 2: just the terrorists holding the devices were mostly affected. Now
3:44
Speaker 2: Israel hasn't commented on this operation, but according to reports
3:48
Speaker 2: in the New York Times, this was a joined effort
3:51
Speaker 2: by Mossad and the IDF. The pages were from the
3:56
Speaker 2: Gold Apollo Company in Taiwan, and it appears that Israel
4:01
Speaker 2: intercepted the delivery before it arrived in Lebanon. Explosive material
4:06
Speaker 2: was placed right next to the lithium ion battery. A
4:10
Speaker 2: detonating switch was also reportedly installed. The pages then increased
4:16
Speaker 2: in temperature before exploding. This has owed and flawed commentators
4:23
Speaker 2: around the world.
4:25
Speaker 4: I mean, this is just an extraordinary operation.
4:29
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like this, what have.
4:32
Speaker 5: You, There's never been anything like this. Nobody has ever
4:36
Speaker 5: supplied the communications devices for an entire organization that was
4:41
Speaker 5: their opponent and then done what they call a command
4:45
Speaker 5: detonation by sending a push message to all of those
4:48
Speaker 5: devices just simultaneously. They must have been planning for some time.
4:53
Speaker 5: Has bel sources have told CNN that these are pages
4:57
Speaker 5: that they that they got delivery of, you know, a
4:59
Speaker 5: non months ago. So it suggests that the Israelis, if
5:06
Speaker 5: they are behind it, waited till they were confident that
5:09
Speaker 5: most of the shipment had been distributed to the key
5:12
Speaker 5: operational Hesbela people.
5:15
Speaker 6: Well.
5:15
Speaker 2: Reut has reported that a Hesbela terrorist speaking anonymously, said
5:20
Speaker 2: it was its biggest security breach yet. And there's no
5:25
Speaker 2: question this will now make Hesbela paranoid and create internal division.
5:31
Speaker 2: It's a point this former NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence
5:35
Speaker 2: and counter Terrorism John Miller.
5:37
Speaker 5: Made still sends this important message and consider the gravity
5:42
Speaker 5: of this. If you're at the top of Hesbelah, you
5:45
Speaker 5: have to say Okay, the Israelis knew us better than
5:47
Speaker 5: we thought, better than we thought they did, and our
5:51
Speaker 5: supply chain, our procurement process. We're a big organization. We
5:55
Speaker 5: have to consider all of that compromised. What else are
5:57
Speaker 5: they into my automatic car starter, the laptop in front
6:00
Speaker 5: of me? Do they control an explosive in my phone?
6:04
Speaker 5: So their heads have to be spinning.
6:07
Speaker 2: Exactly. Israeli intelligence is therefore unlimited, but showing how warped.
6:14
Speaker 2: The United Nations is its special coordinator for Lebanon, condemned
6:18
Speaker 2: the attack, saying it marked an extremely concerning escalation in
6:22
Speaker 2: the conflict. That's the un condemning an attack on terrorists,
6:27
Speaker 2: a targeted attack. They overlook the fact that Hesbela has
6:30
Speaker 2: launched more than eight thousand rockets against Israel since October
6:35
Speaker 2: seventh alone, and there are sixty three thousand people displaced
6:40
Speaker 2: from northern Israel as a result, sixty three thousand nettenawho
6:45
Speaker 2: wants these Israelis to be able to return to their homes.
6:49
Speaker 2: As I said, this was a targeted attack and it
6:52
Speaker 2: acts as a warning yet again that terrorists ultimately can't hide,
6:57
Speaker 2: they can't escape. Sophistic case Israeli intelligence that will outrun
7:03
Speaker 2: them every time. This operation also has the added benefit
7:07
Speaker 2: of taking every HASBELAOD terrorist offline, destroying their communication method. Now,
7:14
Speaker 2: while the United Nations may tomorrow demand an unconditional ceasefire,
7:19
Speaker 2: Israel's strategic objective is not just to end the war,
7:23
Speaker 2: but to annihilate the terror threat in order to have
7:26
Speaker 2: lasting peace. And with four hundred Hesbela terrorists killed over
7:32
Speaker 2: the past year and leading her Mus figures taken out
7:36
Speaker 2: as well, it seems like Israel now is on its
7:40
Speaker 2: way to winning the war on terror. All Right, We've
7:47
Speaker 2: got a lot coming up in the show. Dave Sharma
7:49
Speaker 2: will join me a bit later to speak about that,
7:52
Speaker 2: as well as Bridget Mackenzie, Michael downby Michael Shubridge. But
7:55
Speaker 2: now let's bring in my regular Wednesday panel, former Victorian
7:59
Speaker 2: Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and labor legend Graham Richardson.
8:04
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both. Look, this was really a stunning operation.
8:09
Speaker 2: Michael Kroger, what was your reaction when you woke up
8:12
Speaker 2: to hear the news of it today?
8:16
Speaker 4: Well, it was an incredibly successful operation by the Israelis
8:22
Speaker 4: and it was directed towards military targets in Lebanon and Syria,
8:29
Speaker 4: and it worked incredibly successfully. Unlike hes Blah, by the way,
8:32
Speaker 4: who fire rockets at Willy Nilly civilians or otherwise into
8:37
Speaker 4: the northern parts of Israel, I don't care who they kill.
8:40
Speaker 4: So as a target operation, this was incredibly successful. They
8:44
Speaker 4: said we're going after military targets and that's exactly what
8:47
Speaker 4: they did. And the fact that up to three thousand
8:51
Speaker 4: hes Bala fighters have been injured probably ultimately will curtail
8:56
Speaker 4: a lot of their activities. And very clearly the Israelis,
9:00
Speaker 4: where Nasrolla is the leader of Hesblah, he would know
9:05
Speaker 4: that they know where he is and they could take
9:07
Speaker 4: him out at any opportunity. So, as you say, this
9:09
Speaker 4: will probably be a good step towards ending this fight
9:14
Speaker 4: between Hesbla and the Israelis.
9:18
Speaker 2: Rich O, this will go down as one of the
9:20
Speaker 2: legendary intelligence operations.
9:23
Speaker 7: Don't you think, Oh, this is brilliant. I think that's
9:26
Speaker 7: the only word for it, Absolutely brilliant. And it means
9:29
Speaker 7: that if you're against Israel over there, you are worrying
9:34
Speaker 7: every minute of every day, will I be alive tomorrow.
9:39
Speaker 8: I think that's a good way to have your.
9:41
Speaker 2: Enemy, no question, about it. Look, we're going to return
9:45
Speaker 2: to this. We'll have analysis throughout the show because it
9:47
Speaker 2: was the biggest story around the world today, but more
9:51
Speaker 2: locally in Australia. Last night, who's who of the business
9:54
Speaker 2: community gathered for the BCA and Your Dinner where the
9:57
Speaker 2: Prime Minister claimed that he is pro business and pro
10:00
Speaker 2: worker but Michael, he tiptoed around the union backed IR laws.
10:05
Speaker 2: This is the main point of contention. He did admit
10:08
Speaker 2: there were crucks in the relationship with a business sector.
10:10
Speaker 2: Let's have a quick look at that.
10:13
Speaker 9: I am optimistic that government and business can do this together.
10:18
Speaker 9: We have different responsibilities that demand different approaches, so it
10:22
Speaker 9: is inevitable we will have occasional differences of opinion.
10:28
Speaker 2: Michael, do you think Albanezi is facing to some extent
10:33
Speaker 2: a revolt from the business community.
10:36
Speaker 4: Well, of course he is. The question is whether the
10:38
Speaker 4: business community can act on that and change votes. I mean,
10:42
Speaker 4: the Trading Moon for decades have given money to and
10:44
Speaker 4: supported the Labor Party elections. The BCA and state based
10:49
Speaker 4: affiliates and hangers on tend to be neutral during election campaigns,
10:54
Speaker 4: which doesn't do their cause any good because the government
10:57
Speaker 4: then doesn't their labor government never fear them, so they've
11:00
Speaker 4: got to get active, like the mining companies did over
11:03
Speaker 4: the mining tax. I mean, if you don't fight, you lose.
11:05
Speaker 4: The Business Council doesn't fight, so it keeps losing. So
11:08
Speaker 4: it has these wonderful dinners and cocktail parties where they
11:12
Speaker 4: have these meetings. But I'm sorry, Labor politicians take no
11:16
Speaker 4: notice of the Business Council of Australia and increasingly so
11:19
Speaker 4: the Liberal Party politicians don't take much notice of them.
11:23
Speaker 4: The last public campaign the business community ran will full
11:27
Speaker 4: force was to give millions of dollars to the Voice.
11:30
Speaker 4: Well that was a debacle and a disaster and makes
11:35
Speaker 4: them just insipid. So if they get back to fighting
11:37
Speaker 4: for their members, people will start taking them seriously. And
11:42
Speaker 4: the incoming Liberal government, if that's to be the case,
11:44
Speaker 4: will take them seriously.
11:45
Speaker 2: And they have shown a bit of fight over the
11:47
Speaker 2: past fortnight, and we hear that behind the scenes the
11:50
Speaker 2: Prime Minister hasn't been happy about this is communicated some
11:54
Speaker 2: of that privately, as I understand it, to senior leadership
11:58
Speaker 2: in the BCA. But Richard, it's not just the business
12:01
Speaker 2: community who's complaining here. Your old mate Bill Keilty has
12:07
Speaker 2: come out at a private lunch and to say that, well,
12:10
Speaker 2: the government's not doing enough to lift productivity. What did
12:13
Speaker 2: you make of his remarks?
12:15
Speaker 7: Well, I think when Kelty speaks, you're a mug if
12:18
Speaker 7: here don't listen. That's the main point here. Kelty is
12:23
Speaker 7: wise beyond belief and has.
12:27
Speaker 8: A stellar record.
12:29
Speaker 7: So if I were the government and I heard Kelty
12:31
Speaker 7: taking a stance like that, I'd be listening and I'd
12:35
Speaker 7: be acting upon it.
12:37
Speaker 2: Would you agree with what he said that there needs
12:39
Speaker 2: to be tax reform? He said personal income tax brackets.
12:43
Speaker 2: When you add in GSD, he's saying it's over fifty percent,
12:46
Speaker 2: it's too high. You put in bracket creep on top
12:49
Speaker 2: of that, and even with the tax cuts, people are
12:51
Speaker 2: paying more tax than they were two years ago. This
12:55
Speaker 2: is what he's saying, there needs to be tax reform.
12:58
Speaker 8: Well, there does wise.
13:00
Speaker 7: You do what we're doing now, you chase your tail,
13:02
Speaker 7: You just go around in a circle, and.
13:04
Speaker 8: That's all we're doing. So something's got to be done
13:07
Speaker 8: to break that.
13:08
Speaker 7: And if we don't break it, then I think all
13:12
Speaker 7: we're doing is condemning ourselves to committing the same sins.
13:16
Speaker 2: I mean, the problem is Michael Kroig, that government spending
13:19
Speaker 2: just gets bigger and bigger and bigger than ndis, you know,
13:23
Speaker 2: one of the biggest cost blowouts. So no government is
13:26
Speaker 2: going to want to rain in personal income tax. But
13:29
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's unsustainable, isn't it.
13:33
Speaker 4: Absolutely unsustainable? I mean, as I said, the problem with
13:35
Speaker 4: Charmers is he's too weak. He's spending one hundred and
13:38
Speaker 4: thirty billion dollars more between twenty twenty three and twenty
13:42
Speaker 4: twenty six, according to the budget papers, one hundred and
13:44
Speaker 4: thirty billion more than he's than he's getting. And so
13:48
Speaker 4: when you've got a weak treasurer who cannot resist the
13:51
Speaker 4: demands upon him, right, he always wants to spend money.
13:54
Speaker 4: And you know, look, you can say, you know there's
13:57
Speaker 4: no cause that isn't a good cause for government infrastructure, welfare, health, education,
14:02
Speaker 4: but you've got to draw the line somewhere. And when
14:04
Speaker 4: you've got a weak treasurer who doesn't have an economics background,
14:08
Speaker 4: like Jim Chalmers, who's floundering, it's very bad for the government.
14:11
Speaker 4: And you know, to be a successful government, you state
14:14
Speaker 4: or federal, you've got to have a strong treasurer who
14:16
Speaker 4: can resist the overtures of your own supports. Charmers can't
14:20
Speaker 4: do that, Albanies, you can't do it. The captives of
14:22
Speaker 4: the sort of the left wing, you know, activists. And
14:27
Speaker 4: that's why the Australian economy is in a mess and
14:30
Speaker 4: it's not going to get any better under Charmers because,
14:34
Speaker 4: as most people think, he's spending far too much money,
14:37
Speaker 4: and that's why inflation is still just under four percent.
14:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, inflation is. It has come down, but it
14:43
Speaker 2: is persistent. Rich O, the Prime Minister was clearly hoping
14:47
Speaker 2: for a rate cut before he calls the election. This
14:50
Speaker 2: is what he wanted to announce that he's got the
14:52
Speaker 2: cost of living under control. You've had your first rate cut,
14:55
Speaker 2: inflations coming down. But now we're seeing reports that actually
14:59
Speaker 2: the might not even be a rate cut in the
15:01
Speaker 2: first quarter of next year. He has to call the
15:04
Speaker 2: election in that time period, so it's not looking good
15:07
Speaker 2: for the PM.
15:09
Speaker 7: No, I don't think that there's any good timing ahead
15:12
Speaker 7: for Anthony. I think the problem is whenever he goes
15:16
Speaker 7: there are problems. I think he was looking for a
15:20
Speaker 7: sweet spot. It's not going to come. So he's got
15:24
Speaker 7: to face that reality. And then then he's got to
15:26
Speaker 7: face up to an election that is not going to
15:29
Speaker 7: be easy to win.
15:31
Speaker 2: Look, and even the unions turning against him. We saw
15:34
Speaker 2: today that there were thousands of CFMEU members both in
15:37
Speaker 2: Sydney and Melbourne who again stopped work in protest at
15:42
Speaker 2: the foster administration of their union. Michael. The union members
15:46
Speaker 2: have threatened a seventy two hour strike. They say that
15:50
Speaker 2: this would cripple the construction sector. I mean, this is
15:54
Speaker 2: quite extraordinary, these scenes against a labor PM.
16:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, they are, and you know they've got a right
16:04
Speaker 4: to strike. Unfortunately they're striking over the wrong thing. They
16:08
Speaker 4: think that, you know, they've got this belief that there's
16:11
Speaker 4: an attack on wages and conditions. No, it's got nothing
16:14
Speaker 4: to do with that, as we all know. But I've
16:16
Speaker 4: got to say it's a single minded achievement, Alban. Easy
16:18
Speaker 4: to have both business and the unions against you. I
16:21
Speaker 4: haven't seen that for a long time. But he's achieved that.
16:24
Speaker 4: He's got the Jewish community against him, and the mkal
16:26
Speaker 4: community against him. He's got the Aboriginal community against him,
16:30
Speaker 4: and the mining community, gold mining community against him. Boy,
16:35
Speaker 4: he's getting almost he's almost a Gold Medal status. I
16:40
Speaker 4: mean for offending everybody. Well, this is what happens if
16:44
Speaker 4: you're a weak prime minister like Alboiz and you try
16:47
Speaker 4: to please everyone, You've got to compromise your own beliefs,
16:50
Speaker 4: which are hard socialist left. I mean, he's a Jeremy Corbyn,
16:53
Speaker 4: he's a Bernie Sanders. That doesn't work in Australia. So
16:56
Speaker 4: he tries to appease everybody. You've got Wang over there.
17:00
Speaker 4: I mean, look, what is the purpose of the Albanzy government.
17:03
Speaker 4: That's what people are going to ask himself. Answer, there
17:06
Speaker 4: is no purpose. It fell into government after we'd been
17:08
Speaker 4: in power for nine years, we had no full term agenda,
17:11
Speaker 4: we'd had three prime ministers. Okay, the electorate said hey,
17:13
Speaker 4: we've had enough of you, time for change. But this
17:16
Speaker 4: bloke got into government on false prefaces that he had
17:18
Speaker 4: a plan to fix everything. Everyone knows not only he
17:21
Speaker 4: didn't have any he didn't have a plan. He doesn't
17:23
Speaker 4: have any idea what he's doing. And I think, as
17:25
Speaker 4: I said last night, Jerry, that's why I think Dutton's
17:27
Speaker 4: probably favorite now to win the election. This guy's polls
17:32
Speaker 4: are just getting worse every single day, and I can't
17:35
Speaker 4: see what's going to stop them continuing to fall.
17:38
Speaker 2: Rich Are You come on this show and you often say, look,
17:41
Speaker 2: people like Albo, and I always point out that no
17:44
Speaker 2: one I know says they like Albo, But that just
17:47
Speaker 2: could be the circles I'm mixed in. But you insist
17:50
Speaker 2: that he is a likable bloke and so people are
17:53
Speaker 2: going to vote him back in. But the floor in
17:56
Speaker 2: that argument is that the voters didn't love Tony Abbott.
18:01
Speaker 2: He wasn't in the polls a popular figure. He won
18:04
Speaker 2: with a fourteen seat landslide. Do you think there's a
18:08
Speaker 2: chance that the Liberals could have a swing coming their
18:11
Speaker 2: way of that size? It might not be enough to
18:14
Speaker 2: get them into government or even into minority government, but
18:18
Speaker 2: it could be a big swing.
18:20
Speaker 8: Nonetheless, I doubt it, That's all I can say. I
18:23
Speaker 8: doubt it. I think Anthony is always able.
18:29
Speaker 7: When an election's on too somehow just zoom up and
18:35
Speaker 7: the moment maketh the man.
18:37
Speaker 8: He just seems to be able to do it every time.
18:40
Speaker 2: I couldn't do it with the voice, though, could he?
18:43
Speaker 2: That was another voice?
18:46
Speaker 7: Hang on the voice an election, It was totally different.
18:50
Speaker 7: I always thought the voice was a very weird thing
18:53
Speaker 7: to be involved in.
18:54
Speaker 8: And you know I wouldn't want to tell you how
18:56
Speaker 8: I voted on it. All I know is that I
19:00
Speaker 8: ever happy with it being raised.
19:03
Speaker 2: They know how you voted on it because you came
19:05
Speaker 2: on this show. You said you disagreed with the vice.
19:07
Speaker 2: The PM wasn't happy with you, so you changed your
19:10
Speaker 2: position and you felt like you had to support the
19:12
Speaker 2: sake of the labor rubbish. You definitely said you disagreed
19:17
Speaker 2: with the vice. You'll shut out on this show, ID
19:21
Speaker 2: went in doubt.
19:21
Speaker 4: Labor politicians should ring you, mate, they should ring you
19:24
Speaker 4: when they're in doubt. And that's been the law in
19:26
Speaker 4: this country for forty years. Bill Hayden should have listened
19:29
Speaker 4: to you in those leadership battles thirty odd years ago.
19:32
Speaker 4: And you were right on the Voice. Alba was completely
19:35
Speaker 4: wrong and Richo nothing has done more damage to the
19:38
Speaker 4: Albanesi government than the Voice because he said to the
19:40
Speaker 4: whole country, this is my major priority. And everyone thought, mate,
19:44
Speaker 4: if that's your major if that's your major priority, you're
19:47
Speaker 4: the wrong man to be Prime Minis for this country
19:49
Speaker 4: at this time.
19:51
Speaker 8: There's some truth in that. I'd have to agree.
19:55
Speaker 7: I think it was a strange thing to be adopting
19:57
Speaker 7: as such a big deal. You know, if it's not
20:01
Speaker 7: a big deal to the great majority of Australians, it's
20:03
Speaker 7: not a big deal period.
20:04
Speaker 8: You're not going to change their mind.
20:07
Speaker 2: Well was also the way he went about it, you know,
20:10
Speaker 2: and and the way he fought the campaign. I mean,
20:12
Speaker 2: the polling show that sixty percent of people kind of
20:16
Speaker 2: agreed with the idea at the beginning. But when the
20:19
Speaker 2: Prime Minister started calling people chicken littles and racists, accusing
20:23
Speaker 2: no supporters of misinformation, he turned anyone who might have
20:27
Speaker 2: even been inclined to support it off it, you know,
20:30
Speaker 2: created a lot of bad will. Just before we go.
20:33
Speaker 2: I want to finish on ambulance wait times now. This
20:35
Speaker 2: is a major issue around the country. We've seen new
20:39
Speaker 2: figures today that ambulance wait times in New South Wales
20:43
Speaker 2: for critically ill patients who need urgent care have blown out.
20:47
Speaker 2: This story in the Citney Morning Herald. The worst areas
20:50
Speaker 2: were the Inner West, Northern Beaches and the Hawkesbury waiting
20:54
Speaker 2: longer for help than a year ago. But this is
20:56
Speaker 2: the same situation in Queensland, Victoria and South Australia. I mean,
21:01
Speaker 2: my point is, we see we pay more tax than ever.
21:04
Speaker 2: Governments are getting involved in all sorts of things that
21:07
Speaker 2: they probably don't need to get involved in. The most
21:10
Speaker 2: basic requirement is to deliver healthcare when someone's about to die,
21:15
Speaker 2: having a heart attack or a stroke or something else
21:17
Speaker 2: that an ambulance turns up. Gentlemen, why can't governments fulfill
21:23
Speaker 2: the most basic things? Michael Kroger, Well, it's.
21:29
Speaker 4: A very good point. And those areas where the ambulances
21:33
Speaker 4: are free, which is most areas, I understand people are
21:37
Speaker 4: going to emergency wards, and I don't know that those
21:41
Speaker 4: stats in the Herald article prove this, but anecdotally, I
21:44
Speaker 4: tend to think a lot of people are going to
21:46
Speaker 4: emergency wards so they don't have to pay for you know,
21:52
Speaker 4: seeing a general partitioner where they're not built. So the
21:56
Speaker 4: out of pocket expenses, I think people are not paying it,
21:59
Speaker 4: and they prefer to get to an emergency ward at
22:01
Speaker 4: a hospital by an ambulance. That's what I suspect is happening.
22:05
Speaker 4: Because there are too many examples, these numbers have blown
22:09
Speaker 4: out of all proportion with no particular reason.
22:13
Speaker 10: Rich.
22:14
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's something a lot of people
22:16
Speaker 2: are worried about that if you need an ambulance urgently
22:20
Speaker 2: to be there quickly, before you could get to a
22:22
Speaker 2: hospital yourself, that they just won't turn up in time,
22:25
Speaker 2: that you'll lose your life. Is that something that you
22:28
Speaker 2: think is a concerned.
22:29
Speaker 8: I think that people do think that. I think there
22:32
Speaker 8: are far too many who think it. I think all
22:34
Speaker 8: governments have to have another.
22:36
Speaker 7: Look at healthcare and ambulance times in particular. It's expensive
22:44
Speaker 7: to try and fix the problem, but if you don't
22:47
Speaker 7: fix the problem, it costs actual lives. It has a
22:52
Speaker 7: terrible effect in the community. So you've just got to
22:56
Speaker 7: change your priorities and make sure you do everything possible
22:59
Speaker 7: to fix agree.
23:01
Speaker 2: All right, rich O, Michael Kroger, Great to see both
23:04
Speaker 2: of you. Now let's return to the biggest story making
23:08
Speaker 2: headlines around the world today, the surprise attack on HESBLA
23:11
Speaker 2: where their personal pages were detonated. This was an unprecedented
23:16
Speaker 2: operation and joining me now Strategic Analysis Australia Director Michael Schubridge, Michael,
23:21
Speaker 2: good to see you again. Look waking up to this
23:24
Speaker 2: news in Australia today. It has surprised many with its
23:28
Speaker 2: brilliance in the execution. What was your reaction when you
23:33
Speaker 2: took the time to analyze it.
23:36
Speaker 11: Well, I was shocked, like you were, Shari, But when
23:40
Speaker 11: I looked at the nature of it, this is the
23:45
Speaker 11: most deep and a devastating blow to a terrorist organization's
23:52
Speaker 11: leadership that we've seen in the last forty fifty years
23:57
Speaker 11: or maybe ever. The device were used by Hasbola's entire
24:02
Speaker 11: command structure and only by them, so it injured or
24:06
Speaker 11: killed a bunch of them and maybe some of the
24:09
Speaker 11: people that were holding the pages of these terrorist leaders.
24:15
Speaker 2: Hasblah has now threatened retaliation. What shape do you expect
24:20
Speaker 2: this will take? Given they are weakened as a result
24:23
Speaker 2: of this attack, Planning retaliation will be very difficult given
24:27
Speaker 2: their communication method has been literally destroyed.
24:32
Speaker 11: Well, has Bolla are absolutely in shock about this, and
24:36
Speaker 11: they're in disarray. You're right, these pages were a main
24:41
Speaker 11: way they led and commanded the Hasbolla terrorist organization, so
24:47
Speaker 11: they're on the back foot immediately in giving orders and
24:50
Speaker 11: instructions and coming up with a plan. I think it'll
24:54
Speaker 11: be like the Iranians that when that assassination happened right
24:59
Speaker 11: in the middle of Tehran of the Hesbola leader Hania,
25:04
Speaker 11: They said, we'll do terrible things and they still don't
25:07
Speaker 11: know what to do.
25:09
Speaker 2: Hamas leader, of course, yes, because that embarrassed both Tehran
25:13
Speaker 2: and Hamas. Look, I just also want to ask you
25:16
Speaker 2: about ORCUS. It looks like it could expand. The US, Australia,
25:20
Speaker 2: and the UK are considering allowing three other allies access
25:24
Speaker 2: to the Pillar two technology here with Senator James Patterson
25:28
Speaker 2: speaking about this, South.
25:31
Speaker 12: Korea, New Zealand and Canada. They are advanced economies, they
25:35
Speaker 12: are like minded partners, they are fellow democracies, and we
25:37
Speaker 12: can work together on solving some of those technological problems,
25:40
Speaker 12: whether it's quantum computing or advanced hypersonics or cybersecurity, in
25:44
Speaker 12: a way that enhances our shared values and shared interests.
25:48
Speaker 2: So, Michael, they wouldn't be included on the nuclear submarine program,
25:53
Speaker 2: But what's your view on whether ORCUS should be extended.
25:58
Speaker 11: Well, Pillar two, which is the non nuclear submarine bit
26:02
Speaker 11: of UCAS, is meant to be about rapid improvement in
26:06
Speaker 11: military capabilities by getting new technologies into the hands of
26:11
Speaker 11: the UCUST partners' militaries. It's been underwhelming. It's been about
26:16
Speaker 11: government to government to government meetings and international travel. So
26:22
Speaker 11: these new partners need to bring urgency, money and technology.
26:28
Speaker 11: And really Japan is the one we haven't talked about.
26:30
Speaker 11: It's already indicated its interest. The problem with Canada and
26:34
Speaker 11: New Zealand is it looks like fear of missing out
26:38
Speaker 11: rather than them bringing real capability to the party.
26:44
Speaker 2: I also want to get your reaction, Paul Keating, Gareth Evans,
26:47
Speaker 2: Bob Carr. They're still objecting to Orcus. They seem to
26:51
Speaker 2: think they're the only sensible voices.
26:56
Speaker 11: Well, what's that line they would say that, wouldn't they?
27:00
Speaker 11: Paul Keating talks about the loss of Australian sovereignty by
27:04
Speaker 11: being laced into American military technology. Well, when he was
27:08
Speaker 11: the Prime minister, our military was replete with American military
27:13
Speaker 11: and intelligence technology. That ship sailed before he was the
27:18
Speaker 11: prime minister. So maybe he's forgotten, but I think it's
27:23
Speaker 11: right to look closely at how AUCAS is being implemented
27:27
Speaker 11: and being critical is not somehow disloyal.
27:32
Speaker 2: All right, Michael Schubridge, great to hear your thoughts. As always,
27:36
Speaker 2: Now before we go to the break Outgoing nine Boss
27:38
Speaker 2: Mike Sneezeby has spoken today for the first time since
27:42
Speaker 2: announcing his sudden resignation from the network. The Australians Leam
27:46
Speaker 2: Mendes confronted sneezeby outside Torona Zoo this afternoon where nine
27:51
Speaker 2: was holding its strategy and people for him, have a.
27:54
Speaker 13: Look your departure from nine is that linked to the
27:57
Speaker 13: cultural view findings?
28:00
Speaker 8: And today's a lot about our people that are in there.
28:02
Speaker 7: But you're purchasing on our learn you focusing on our
28:05
Speaker 7: strategy and of course it's going to be a terrific day.
28:08
Speaker 8: So why have you decided to leave mine? Miss Stansbeak?
28:12
Speaker 8: Are you leaving? Why are you leaving?
28:14
Speaker 3: Before the report turned it down?
28:17
Speaker 2: And it seems or at least the top brass at
28:19
Speaker 2: nine have learned one lesson get out of the car
28:22
Speaker 2: talk to Liam Mendi's because last time when Peter Costello
28:25
Speaker 2: shoved him over, well that didn't end so well for Costello.
28:29
Speaker 2: And this all comes after months of turbulence at the
28:31
Speaker 2: networkers it awaits findings from an external report into the
28:34
Speaker 2: culture at the company. Now, after the break and angry,
28:38
Speaker 2: alber Eazy takes aim at the Greens and the Coalition
28:41
Speaker 2: for blocking his agenda, but is he prepared to use
28:44
Speaker 2: this to call an election? And the worst foreign minister
28:48
Speaker 2: in our nation's history. Pennywong is now embarrassing us ahead
28:52
Speaker 2: of the United Nations vote. Once again. I'm going to
28:56
Speaker 2: get Michael Danby and Bridget McKenzie's take on this after
28:59
Speaker 2: the break. Well, a lot more coming up on the
29:04
Speaker 2: show tonight. Let's get into it now with our political panel,
29:07
Speaker 2: National Senate Leader Bridget McKenzie and former Labor and p
29:11
Speaker 2: Michael dan Be great to see you both. Look. Anthony
29:14
Speaker 2: Alberinezi has accused the Coalition and the Greens of teaming
29:18
Speaker 2: up to block Labour's housing policy in the Senate. The
29:21
Speaker 2: PM tweeted this afternoon that Australians want their leaders to
29:25
Speaker 2: act now to make housing more affordable. Yet today the
29:29
Speaker 2: Liberals and Greens teamed up to block more help to
29:32
Speaker 2: buy a home Now. There is speculation that the PM
29:36
Speaker 2: could call a double dissolution election, and he didn't rule
29:40
Speaker 2: it out when Clenell asked him about it yesterday. Bridget McKenzie,
29:45
Speaker 2: what are the coalition's issues with this legislation.
29:51
Speaker 10: Good evening, Sharhi, Well, we just don't think it's the
29:54
Speaker 10: right approach to actually free up supply that we know
29:58
Speaker 10: is needed in this country. We've seen images all day
30:02
Speaker 10: of construction workers on the streets of Melbourne. We know
30:06
Speaker 10: we've got the lowest new starts of new homes since
30:12
Speaker 10: twenty eleven under Labor. Meanwhile, they're pouring you know, a
30:17
Speaker 10: million over a million people into our crowded suburbs. So
30:21
Speaker 10: this is not the right mechanism with which to do it.
30:25
Speaker 10: The Greens think they can land a deal with the
30:29
Speaker 10: Labor Party if they have some more time to negotiate,
30:32
Speaker 10: and that's what they've sought to do and you know
30:34
Speaker 10: we've been.
30:34
Speaker 2: Able to facilitate that.
30:35
Speaker 10: So it's up to the Labor Party in the Greens
30:38
Speaker 10: to bury the hatchet, get the band back together and
30:42
Speaker 10: for the Labor Party to actually either put the deal
30:46
Speaker 10: on the table that will get Adam Banton his team
30:49
Speaker 10: across the line or not, or'll be voted down by
30:53
Speaker 10: the end of the year. But we've got a whole
30:54
Speaker 10: raft of a suite of initiatives that will be taking
30:57
Speaker 10: to the election to open up supply on the supply
31:01
Speaker 10: side of the housing market, because it's not just about
31:03
Speaker 10: social and affordable housing obviously, we want to see Australians
31:07
Speaker 10: own their own home too, and this.
31:09
Speaker 2: Is becoming a major issue home ownership and the high
31:13
Speaker 2: price of renting with the inflation and cost of living crisis. Look,
31:17
Speaker 2: I just want to talk about the fact that the
31:20
Speaker 2: Prime Minister didn't rule out a double dissolution. It seems
31:24
Speaker 2: like that's our talk. He's unlikely to do that because
31:27
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to go to an election this year.
31:28
Speaker 13: What do you think, Michael, it'd be a fool But
31:32
Speaker 13: then that's not beyond the possibility with him. Look, it
31:36
Speaker 13: ended up with even more frost benches in the Senate already.
31:40
Speaker 13: We've made a tragic mistake of giving preferences to the Greens,
31:44
Speaker 13: which has got them elected in a number of.
31:46
Speaker 3: Lower House seats.
31:48
Speaker 14: Those Greens wouldn't be elected without Labor Party preferences, and
31:52
Speaker 14: there becomes such an existential danger to the Labor Party
31:55
Speaker 14: that even the socialist left should understand it and a
31:58
Speaker 14: double d would be madness.
32:01
Speaker 2: I really think you know that the pressure now needs
32:04
Speaker 2: to be ramped up on the PM about what preference
32:07
Speaker 2: deals he is going to do with the Greens. He
32:10
Speaker 2: criticizes them all the time, correctly, but is he going
32:14
Speaker 2: to rely on them if he needs to to form government?
32:17
Speaker 2: And what are the preference deals. I think we need
32:19
Speaker 2: to have the answers to this. What do you think,
32:21
Speaker 2: bridget Yeah, I.
32:23
Speaker 10: Couldn't agree with you more Sharin, It was pretty fiery
32:26
Speaker 10: question time this week. It's the Senate only sitting and
32:29
Speaker 10: these are exactly the types of questions that Penny Wong
32:32
Speaker 10: and Murray Watt, two of the factional left labor ministers,
32:37
Speaker 10: are getting and their response to the Greens political party
32:41
Speaker 10: here in the Senate every single question time this week
32:44
Speaker 10: is a very emotional one.
32:45
Speaker 2: They're furious and they know.
32:47
Speaker 10: They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. The
32:49
Speaker 10: Greens are monstering the you know, the left wing labor constituency,
32:57
Speaker 10: and they're powerless to do anything about it.
33:00
Speaker 2: But Michael's dead right.
33:02
Speaker 10: The Senate and the House are full of Greens because
33:05
Speaker 10: of the Labor Party, and so I think the coalition
33:08
Speaker 10: had a lot of fun today. That's exactly what we
33:11
Speaker 10: were asking them during question time across the raucous chamber
33:14
Speaker 10: was you know, well, if you hate it so much,
33:17
Speaker 10: put them last. Didn't look like they were going to take.
33:20
Speaker 2: That up, No, of course not, because for them, you know,
33:24
Speaker 2: power is everything. Well, let's see it drilled down a
33:27
Speaker 2: bit more on Penny Wong. Tomorrow Australia will vote on
33:31
Speaker 2: a United Nations resolution. As you know, this calls for
33:35
Speaker 2: a ban on arm sales to Israel, even calls for
33:39
Speaker 2: a boycott on Israeli companies. It calls for an unconditional
33:43
Speaker 2: withdrawal from Gaza, never mind the fact that there are
33:46
Speaker 2: still one hundred hostages held by terrorists in Gaza in
33:51
Speaker 2: dark tunnels. No mention, of course of Hamas or October seven.
33:56
Speaker 2: The Biden administration has slammed this resolution, calling it inflammatory
34:00
Speaker 2: and one sided. Penny Wang is already embarrassing Australia by
34:05
Speaker 2: giving this pro Haamas motion consideration. Michael, how can she
34:11
Speaker 2: possibly even be considering supporting this? And has she already
34:17
Speaker 2: lost all credibility as Foreign minister.
34:20
Speaker 14: She's more scared of the majority socialist left in her
34:23
Speaker 14: government and the alleged Muslim vote, which I think is
34:27
Speaker 14: greatly exaggerated in Western Sydney, than she is about political realities.
34:32
Speaker 14: The history of the Labor Party, Anywong, is that we
34:35
Speaker 14: always supported negotiations between the parties, not resolutions in the
34:40
Speaker 14: United Nations General Assembly passed by automatic majorities. With the
34:45
Speaker 14: Islamic countries imposed on the parties. You'll never get a
34:49
Speaker 14: settlement if you don't have both of them sit down
34:52
Speaker 14: and Obama, Clinton and Bush all had the Palestinians nearly
34:57
Speaker 14: at the table and they ran away face up to that.
35:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, good point, very good point, bridget This will be
35:05
Speaker 2: a major test for Labor. I think they're going to abstain.
35:09
Speaker 2: That's my instinct. What do you think.
35:13
Speaker 10: Well, we're reading in the most recent reports that Australia
35:17
Speaker 10: is attempting to water it down and amend it, etc.
35:21
Speaker 10: I mean, this is a point in time again for
35:24
Speaker 10: Penny Wong and Anthony Albaneze's Labor Party to take a
35:28
Speaker 10: stand on the global stage, to stop equivocating, to stop
35:32
Speaker 10: siding with Kamas sympathizers and terror sympathizers, and stand with
35:37
Speaker 10: our ally Israel at her time of need. It's an
35:40
Speaker 10: opportunity to send a very clear signal, not just to
35:43
Speaker 10: the international community but here at home. I'd be encouraging
35:47
Speaker 10: the Foreign Minister to not do it a third time
35:51
Speaker 10: in the UN to actually do the right thing, because
35:54
Speaker 10: as we know, the only thing necessary are for evil
35:58
Speaker 10: to triumph. For good men and women in the twenty
36:01
Speaker 10: first century to do nothing and This is her chance
36:05
Speaker 10: to stand up not just for Israel, but for the
36:10
Speaker 10: Jewish community here at home. That's very supportive of obviously
36:14
Speaker 10: the Israeli community.
36:15
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, the fight is
36:17
Speaker 2: against terrorists. We just had the anniversary of Stromber eleven.
36:20
Speaker 2: I mean fundamental Islamic extremism, terrorism, l you know, was
36:26
Speaker 2: what caused September eleven. This is a war against all
36:28
Speaker 2: of us in the West, not just Jews and loss
36:32
Speaker 2: Bridget McKenzie, Michael Danby, thank you very much for joining
36:35
Speaker 2: me once again now after the break, the man at
36:37
Speaker 2: the center of this week's bombshell story would join us live.
36:41
Speaker 2: Heston Russell will speak about the ABC doctoring video to
36:45
Speaker 2: accuse him of war crimes, plus today's fresh revelations. The
36:49
Speaker 2: ABC journalist promised a positive story misleading a US soldier
36:55
Speaker 2: that secret recording has now been published. That's all coming
36:58
Speaker 2: up after the breaks, don't go away, Welcome back on
37:07
Speaker 2: now to more shocking revelations around the ABC's war crime reporting.
37:12
Speaker 2: The ABC is now being accused of manipulating comments from
37:16
Speaker 2: a former United States Drug Enforcement Administration leader. Brett Hamilton
37:21
Speaker 2: said that he only agreed to an interview with the
37:24
Speaker 2: ABC journalist Mark Willacy because he was promised that it
37:28
Speaker 2: would be a positive story. Now the Daily Telegraph has
37:32
Speaker 2: obtained this secret recording where you can actually hear the
37:37
Speaker 2: ABC reporter making that promise.
37:40
Speaker 1: Have a look, I am interested in doing something more
37:44
Speaker 1: broadly about the positive sort of relationship you know that
37:48
Speaker 1: developed in twenty eleven, continued and then through to twenty twelve,
37:52
Speaker 1: about you know, the actual achievements you guys, you know,
37:56
Speaker 1: racked up with the commandos. At some point, I'm not
38:00
Speaker 1: too interested in going down the road of this negative stuff.
38:04
Speaker 15: Hown you if.
38:04
Speaker 1: Anything, if somebody could capture the successors that we had.
38:10
Speaker 2: He literally said, I'm not interested in going down the
38:13
Speaker 2: path of this negative stuff. But the story that he
38:16
Speaker 2: was pursuing was about war crimes, highly misleading to lie
38:21
Speaker 2: to someone like that. Hamilton's comments were then, according to
38:26
Speaker 2: Brett Hamilton himself, taken completely out of context. Now Communications
38:31
Speaker 2: Minister Michelle Roland has today finally demanded answers from the ABC.
38:37
Speaker 15: I will be seeking a briefing from the ABC on
38:40
Speaker 15: this issue, because you are absolutely right, Australians need to
38:43
Speaker 15: have trust in their national broadcast stuff.
38:47
Speaker 2: All right, Well, now, retired Special Forces Major Heston Russell
38:51
Speaker 2: joins me live. Heston, thanks so much for your time. Look, firstly,
38:54
Speaker 2: I want to get your reaction to that secret audio
38:57
Speaker 2: of Mark Willersy promising Brett Hamilton that it was going
39:01
Speaker 2: to be a positive story about working with you and
39:05
Speaker 2: your platoon.
39:08
Speaker 9: Yeah.
39:09
Speaker 6: Hi, So that recording was actually submitted to the Federal Court.
39:12
Speaker 6: That's actually the.
39:12
Speaker 15: Recording of the conversation Mark Willisy had with Brett Hamilton,
39:17
Speaker 15: and Brett then subsequently came on the Spotlight program. Brett
39:20
Speaker 15: even did an interview with ben fordham during my court
39:22
Speaker 15: case to say how discussed he was at, how his
39:26
Speaker 15: interview was manipulated, and also you know, the invitation to
39:29
Speaker 15: have him come on it was in complete ruse to
39:33
Speaker 15: get grabs from him to further try and incriminate me.
39:35
Speaker 15: I mean, I've maintained contacts with Brett Hamilton since we
39:38
Speaker 15: deployed Afghanistan in twenty twelve, So as soon as that
39:41
Speaker 15: came out, I linked him with Ben fordham and the
39:43
Speaker 15: team and the fact that the ABC is willing to
39:46
Speaker 15: take the comments from a us DEA Drug Enforcement Administration commander,
39:52
Speaker 15: someone who works in Washington, DC and manipulate in such
39:55
Speaker 15: a way is not only fraudulent, but how is that
39:58
Speaker 15: for a representation of the Australia TA Australia treats out
40:02
Speaker 15: US diplomats.
40:04
Speaker 2: I have to say I find it very shocking personally
40:07
Speaker 2: as a journalist to hear a journalist like Mark Willisey
40:11
Speaker 2: make a phone call like that where he promises something
40:13
Speaker 2: was going to be a positive story when he knew
40:15
Speaker 2: all along that he was chasing a story about war crimes.
40:20
Speaker 2: I just think that's shocking. And then to make it worse,
40:23
Speaker 2: Mark willisy called us at NewsCorp bottom feeders, but his
40:28
Speaker 2: lack of ethics seems to be unmatched. I mean, it
40:31
Speaker 2: doesn't get worse than And of course he has said
40:34
Speaker 2: he didn't know about this, doctoring a video to add gunshots,
40:38
Speaker 2: or lying about whether something was going to be a
40:40
Speaker 2: positive story. How would you describe the journalism at the
40:45
Speaker 2: ABC that targeted you.
40:49
Speaker 6: Well, let's get this very clear.
40:51
Speaker 15: So there's all the hype about these six shots that
40:54
Speaker 15: were originally one shot and now.
40:55
Speaker 6: Another six that turn into twelve.
40:57
Speaker 15: But the key point here is that Mark willis he
41:00
Speaker 15: got fifteen seconds worth of helmet camera footage and put
41:03
Speaker 15: together an entire seventeen thirty report that said that me
41:06
Speaker 15: and my soldiers, he said it was me personally firing,
41:09
Speaker 15: were flying around in helicopters.
41:10
Speaker 6: Shoot at unarmed civilians.
41:12
Speaker 15: Then in April last year, during my court I gave
41:15
Speaker 15: the ABC the full five minute video that shows us
41:19
Speaker 15: chasing these insurgents.
41:20
Speaker 6: It shows us firing those shots.
41:22
Speaker 15: Landing on the ground, moving forward to capture them, and
41:25
Speaker 15: then getting ambushed and shot at, and you can physically
41:28
Speaker 15: see me on the camera getting shot at with my soldier.
41:31
Speaker 15: The ABC has had this full narrative, there's full context
41:34
Speaker 15: for over eighteen months now we're arguing over shots being manipulated.
41:38
Speaker 15: That's shocking in itself, but they have had the full
41:41
Speaker 15: context of where Australian soldiers actually performed pretty well magnificently
41:44
Speaker 15: on the ground in combat, and instead of chosen to
41:47
Speaker 15: just stick to their narrative that they manufactured from fifteen seconds.
41:51
Speaker 6: Worth of footage, that's where we're at in Australia.
41:53
Speaker 15: That you can call my entire career and those of
41:55
Speaker 15: my soldiers in the Special Forces into disrepute because you
41:59
Speaker 15: come across fifteen seconds worth of footage and decide to
42:01
Speaker 15: make up your own narrative and then when we give
42:03
Speaker 15: you the full narrative, you stick to your guns.
42:07
Speaker 2: Heston. What other legal options are you looking at? Now?
42:12
Speaker 6: There's too many?
42:13
Speaker 15: And look, I want to say a massive thank you
42:15
Speaker 15: to Skye to seven to everyone has picked up on this.
42:18
Speaker 15: So many people are going to my website Heston Russell
42:20
Speaker 15: dot com and sending me emails about criminal defamation, about
42:25
Speaker 15: you know, maladministration, on the Commonwealth law, all these sorts
42:28
Speaker 15: of things. And look, I'm working with an amazing legal
42:31
Speaker 15: team already to rack and stack what we could and
42:33
Speaker 15: should do. But as you've heard, I've written to Kim
42:36
Speaker 15: Williams to ask to meet with ABC.
42:38
Speaker 6: I've written with Mitch.
42:39
Speaker 15: I've written to Richard Marles to ask to meet with
42:41
Speaker 15: him because where is the Department of Defense. They've had
42:44
Speaker 15: this footage, They've had this footage in their archive. I
42:46
Speaker 15: was questioned on this footage in the Breton Report and
42:50
Speaker 15: they've remained quiet this whole time, even after the ABC
42:53
Speaker 15: had been found to manipulate shots like this. Is this
42:56
Speaker 15: moral injury the Royal Commission is talking about as leading
42:59
Speaker 15: to the degrad and veteran mental health case in Point
43:02
Speaker 15: Ladies and gentlemen here it is defense. Step up and
43:05
Speaker 15: do your job and to get back to your shari.
43:07
Speaker 15: We'll find out. I don't want to go down that
43:09
Speaker 15: legal path. It's a long path.
43:11
Speaker 6: I'm tired. But hey, if that's what's needed, I'll do it.
43:13
Speaker 2: So you are considering the options. If Kim Williams hasn't
43:17
Speaker 2: agreed to meet with you, I take it you haven't
43:19
Speaker 2: heard from him yet.
43:22
Speaker 6: Haven't heard from anyone of the ABC yet.
43:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a disgrace. All right, Hess and Russell, thank
43:27
Speaker 2: you for your time. Now after the break, all eyes
43:32
Speaker 2: firmly on Penny Wang how Australia will vote at the UN.
43:35
Speaker 2: She's under pressure from the Biden administration to vote this down.
43:40
Speaker 2: Dave Sharma is going to join us after the break.
43:42
Speaker 2: I'll also ask him about the Hesbala attacks and law.
43:50
Speaker 2: Welcome back. Well, let's bring in now Liberal Senator Dave
43:53
Speaker 2: Sharma from Canberra. Great to see you, David, not just
43:56
Speaker 2: liberal senator of course, but Australia's former ambassador to Israel.
44:00
Speaker 2: And I want to ask you about what we are
44:02
Speaker 2: presuming is a joint operation between Mossad and the IDF
44:07
Speaker 2: against Hesbela pages Overnight very targeted operation. How sophisticated and
44:15
Speaker 2: unprecedented do you think this is?
44:19
Speaker 16: Well, Look, firstly, Israel has not claimed responsibility for this,
44:24
Speaker 16: nor would they do so in normal circumstances, but Hezebela
44:28
Speaker 16: has certainly said Israel is responsible. I think it's important
44:31
Speaker 16: to understand that Israel and Hesbeler have been at Warnow
44:35
Speaker 16: for eleven months, have been about over five hundred people
44:38
Speaker 16: killed on both sides of the border. There's over one
44:41
Speaker 16: hundred and fifty thousand people displaced on both sides of
44:44
Speaker 16: the border, so they are in a state of conflict,
44:46
Speaker 16: and in a state of conflict, you target your enemy,
44:49
Speaker 16: and that's clearly what this operation has intended to do
44:52
Speaker 16: in quite a targeted way, to go after Hesbela operatives
44:56
Speaker 16: and key figures who were in possession of these pages.
45:00
Speaker 2: Well, Hesbela has fired eight thousand rockets towards Israel just
45:05
Speaker 2: since October seven alone. As you say, a lot of
45:08
Speaker 2: people displaced, Some sixty three thousand Israelis have had to
45:12
Speaker 2: be removed from the northern border. Benjamin Ettina, who's sat
45:16
Speaker 2: on the weekend, that he wants those people to be
45:18
Speaker 2: able to return home. A couple of days later, we've
45:21
Speaker 2: seen this very targeted attack. Hesbela pages detonated, so this
45:27
Speaker 2: is quite an extraordinary operation, but it does fit with
45:31
Speaker 2: the fact that he wants the Prime Minister wants people
45:34
Speaker 2: to be able to go back home.
45:37
Speaker 16: Look, that's right. Nssen Jojuanyov Galant his Defense minister, have
45:41
Speaker 16: been saying quite insistently in recent weeks that Israel's northern
45:46
Speaker 16: population needs to be able to return. Schools need to
45:48
Speaker 16: be able to reopen, families need to be able to
45:51
Speaker 16: go back to their homes. And I think this what
45:54
Speaker 16: this operation says to Hesbla is we have the capability
45:59
Speaker 16: to do signify really more harm to you. We need
46:03
Speaker 16: to reach some sort of accommodation that de escalates tensions
46:06
Speaker 16: and allows people on both sides of the border to
46:08
Speaker 16: return and stops the incessant firing of rockets from Hesbela
46:12
Speaker 16: across into Israel. So I think it's a demonstration of
46:15
Speaker 16: capability but also intent, and it's designed to send a
46:18
Speaker 16: strategic message to Hesbla that now is the time to
46:21
Speaker 16: back off.
46:23
Speaker 2: I want to turn to this United Nations vote. Pennywang,
46:26
Speaker 2: Foreign Minister seems to be trying to negotiate to have
46:30
Speaker 2: the language changed, Dave Sharma, isn't this motion so extreme
46:35
Speaker 2: that you couldn't even begin to tinker with it to
46:38
Speaker 2: have it in any shape or form that would be acceptable.
46:43
Speaker 16: I agree with Linda Thomas Greenfield, who is Joe Biden
46:47
Speaker 16: and Kamala Harris's ambassador to the u N that this
46:49
Speaker 16: is a one sided, inflammatory resolution that will do nothing
46:53
Speaker 16: to advance the cause of piece. It doesn't condemn the
46:57
Speaker 16: Hamas terrorist attacks to the seventh of October, it doesn't
46:59
Speaker 16: recogniz Israel's right to exist behind peaceful and secure borders.
47:03
Speaker 16: It doesn't call for the release of hostages. For all
47:06
Speaker 16: these reasons, it should not even be an internal debate
47:09
Speaker 16: within the Australian government about what position we should be taking.
47:12
Speaker 16: We should be opposing it. But the fact that the
47:15
Speaker 16: government seems to be considering doing what the Green's are
47:18
Speaker 16: urging them to do, which is to support the resolution,
47:20
Speaker 16: I just think shows you how much they have outsourced
47:23
Speaker 16: foreign policy in the Middle East to what the Greens
47:26
Speaker 16: say and do.
47:28
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, as a diplomat, you must be
47:31
Speaker 2: a former diplomat, you must be shocked at where Australia's
47:33
Speaker 2: foreign policy is at the moment. Can you imagine having
47:36
Speaker 2: to be the Australian ambassador in Israel at the moment?
47:41
Speaker 16: Well, I think it's a very difficult job because what
47:44
Speaker 16: this government has done is consciously and quite deliberately not
47:49
Speaker 16: only sought to downgrade our relationship with Israel, but to
47:52
Speaker 16: quite grievously damaging damage it through its public rhetoric, through
47:56
Speaker 16: its tendentious interpretation of the Mark Binskin Report, through its
48:02
Speaker 16: change in voting positions on you and resolutions. And it's
48:05
Speaker 16: not in a way that is helping to advance the
48:07
Speaker 16: cause of peace or a two state solution or Palestinian
48:10
Speaker 16: self determination. It's in a way that's designed to appease,
48:13
Speaker 16: to appease local constituencies in Australia and alleviate political pressure
48:18
Speaker 16: from the Greens. That is no way to be setting
48:21
Speaker 16: foreign policy.
48:22
Speaker 2: It's utterly extraordinary that there's a couple of marginal seats
48:26
Speaker 2: in Western Sydney that seem to be ultimately determining foreign
48:29
Speaker 2: policy and seeing us break with our ally the United States.
48:33
Speaker 2: Dave Sharma, thank you very much for your insights and
48:36
Speaker 2: that's it for me. I'll see you tomorrow night at
48:37
Speaker 2: eight o'clock. Up right now, though, Paul Murray,