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Episode 105 - Miles Davis: The Man Who Quit His Own Genius · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to Sorta Sophisticated with Pete and Amanda. So you've heard of Miles Davis, I'm assuming?
• 0:08
  Speaker B: I think you mentioned him in, like, our jazz episode or something.
• 0:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mentioned him. Right. He's kind of famous.
• 0:13
  Speaker B: Just a little.
• 0:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, he's a big jazz guy.
• 0:15
  Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay.
• 0:15
  Speaker A: Anyway, he'd be turning 100 years old May 26th.
• 0:18
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 0:18
  Speaker A: Kind of a big deal. 100. So this is one of those hundredth anniversary, birthday episodey kind of things.
• 0:25
  Speaker B: Somebody I didn't even know until we did our jazz podcast. Okay.
• 0:28
  Speaker A: And naturally, whenever we have someone turn 100, I think that's a big deal whether they're alive or dead.
• 0:33
  Speaker B: So, all right.
• 0:35
  Speaker A: Ergo, I start down the rabbit hole, I start learning about what's going on. So I thought he was famous for jazz, like, just being an awesome musician. Right. Turns out I was wrong.
• 0:46
  Speaker B: What's he famous for?
• 0:47
  Speaker A: So he's famous for reinventing himself, like, top of the career, best in jazz, and then blows it up completely, stops, starts over again with something completely and totally different and polarized his whole jazz community and all the critics and everything, like, five or six times. So his career is defined with a lot of stuff, not just. He was a great jazz musician. So I was like, holy shit. Okay, I got to get into this thing, which got me sort of all excited because we could be sort of sophisticated about this. Cause jazz one is sophisticated two, then he does all this weird stuff, which is even more sophisticated. So you'd argue this is right up our alley, right?
• 1:30
  Speaker B: Okay, I guess so. Here we go.
• 1:32
  Speaker A: Totally guess so. All right, so here's what we're gonna learn. Here's our promise for everybody today. First, Miles Davis real story is not about jazz. It's about what it costs to refuse to comply with the machine. You remember the machine we were talking about? Michael Jackson, the machine.
• 1:44
  Speaker B: Oh, yes, yes.
• 1:45
  Speaker A: So this guy did not comply ever. Okay, that's first. Second, thing is why sort of the music industry gave up on him each time that he did this and then subsequently came back around when they realized what he was doing was awesome. So, ha ha, joke's on them. And finally, Amanda, what this has to do with us and why some of the most interesting people, me and you know, probably follow the Miles Davis pattern, and we don't really even know it. Cause I, for one, am stuck in this podcast studio just doing this and not reinventing myself. So we're gonna push a little bit on reinvention. On that note, welcome to Sort of Sophisticated, the podcast where culture, curiosity and chaos collides with Miles Davis nonetheless. Episode 105, strap it on. I'm Pete, and with me, as always, is my lovely co host, Amanda. Hello, Amanda.
• 2:36
  Speaker B: Hello, Peter.
• 2:37
  Speaker A: How are you doing today?
• 2:38
  Speaker B: I'm well. How are you?
• 2:39
  Speaker A: I'm doing fine. Are you excited about Miles Davis? Or are you, like. Are you, like, 50? 50? Where are you on the. The meter of excitement today? You answered the question already. All right, well, that's good, because then that's a challenge for me to see if we could bring you over.
• 2:54
  Speaker B: Here we go.
• 2:55
  Speaker A: Okay, this is what's happening. Okay. Official title today. Miles Davis, the man who quit his own genius. And he was maybe the only musician in the history of the world, instead of using his genius to get famous, who used it as a starting point to, like, reinvent himself over and over and over with zero concern with what it would cost him. That's insane. I'm excited.
• 3:16
  Speaker B: I think that's, like, the craziest part that you. You are claiming that he did not care at all. 0 whether or not he failed or succeeded as long as he was reinventing himself.
• 3:25
  Speaker A: He did not. And I bet do this insane after this episode. Let's just go out and ask people, be like, hey, what do you know about Miles Davis? And see how many people. Oh, I love him. Oh, my God, I hate him. Oh, my God. Da, da. Like, they'll have something to say.
• 3:35
  Speaker B: I'm curious. I'm gonna bet what the most. Like, most of the people I know won't even know who he is.
• 3:42
  Speaker A: That's terrible.
• 3:42
  Speaker B: So maybe Drew Houston.
• 3:44
  Speaker A: I am listening to Miles Davis. I mean, he is. Yeah. When I'm, like, making dinner, Dude, I'm totally. Sometimes I listen to Miles Davis when I'm just on the couch and I need a break, and I'm just like. I put in the headphones, and I'm just ready to go.
• 3:56
  Speaker B: But it's all jazz music, so there's no words.
• 3:58
  Speaker A: There are no words.
• 4:00
  Speaker B: Hmm. Maybe you should do the word of the week.
• 4:02
  Speaker A: Okay. Okay. That was awesome. All right. That was good. That was good. That was good. You got me laughing. Our word of the week this week is gallivant. Gallivant. Do we know what gallivant means? Yeah, we do.
• 4:15
  Speaker B: It's what I. Whatever. I'm like, what are you doing gallivanting all over the city?
• 4:20
  Speaker A: That's it. That is what you. Ladies and gentlemen, this is what Amanda does all the time with her two tots in tow. This is it. She gallivants around town. That is perfect. All right, so we know what it means to roam around officially, from place to place for pleasure or entertainment.
• 4:34
  Speaker B: Oh, so for fun.
• 4:35
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 4:36
  Speaker B: Oh, it's not always for fun, but okay, here we go.
• 4:38
  Speaker A: You're gallivanting for.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, fair.
• 4:39
  Speaker A: For fair. Whatever. They don't know where it came from. So usually I have, like, this cool etymology. No, it just showed up in the English language in the early 1800s. Most people think it came from the word gallant, which means stylish or charming. So if you're gallivanting, you weren't just traveling. You were traveling, like, in style. You're being dramatic about your gallivant, which is perfect for you, which totally fits exactly. Amanda Houston.
• 5:02
  Speaker B: I'm gonna just keep on gallivanting.
• 5:04
  Speaker A: We're gallivant.
• 5:04
  Speaker B: Here we go.
• 5:04
  Speaker A: Miles Davis gallivanted around everywhere. This is gonna be so easy. This will be probably one of the easiest words of the week, because this is what he did.
• 5:10
  Speaker B: I mean, his music was also gallivanting.
• 5:12
  Speaker A: Yes. So very much. You could use it for anything. Oh, my God. Okay.
• 5:15
  Speaker B: All right, well, let's start this thing.
• 5:17
  Speaker A: Okay. But before we start, if you like what you're listening to, hit. Subscribe. Follow us. New episodes come out weekly on all of your podcast platforms, also on YouTube. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, here's the plan. First, Amanda, we're do backstory. Because I love to do backstory. Miles Davis and the part nobody talks about. There's a little part nobody knows. Oh, well, I mean, I'm sure.
• 5:35
  Speaker B: Nugget.
• 5:36
  Speaker A: Let me say this. People who know Miles Davis know all of this. It doesn't matter. Nothing new here. People who don't know Miles Davis, who want to be sophisticated, that'll be new. Okay. Then we'll do his five reinventions, because that's the whole bulk of the show. I mean, that's it. That's what we're talking about. And then we'll explain sort of what it cost him, because you were like, oh, do I really believe this machine? And the whole, yes, it cost him a lot. And then why it matters to us. So we bring it home with, like, people that want to learn something and care about, you know, being better people.
• 5:59
  Speaker B: Basically, you're going to, like, try to inspire us to listen to Miles Davis music.
• 6:05
  Speaker A: You specifically, but yes. And then. And then the audience sitting behind you. Yes, eventually. Anyway, here we go. So Miles Dewey Davis. Miles Dewey Davis iii.
• 6:16
  Speaker B: Like Huey, Dewey, and Louie.
• 6:17
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 6:18
  Speaker B: Oh, okay.
• 6:19
  Speaker A: Middle name Dewey. He was also a third. Was born on May 26, 1926 in East St. Louis, Illinois. Not Illinois. Illinois, yes. Did you know he was a third?
• 6:29
  Speaker B: I mean, up until, what, five minutes ago, I didn't even realize who he was. So here we are.
• 6:34
  Speaker A: If he was a third, by default, he was gallivanting. He had to have been, because thirds are rich. Right? Don't you think when you think of people who are thirds, if you get to thirds or the fourth.
• 6:42
  Speaker B: No.
• 6:43
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. Bs. I would totally say anybody who's named a third or a fourth is absolutely rich. Af. And that's the little thing. Remember I said the nugget? That's the nugget right there.
• 6:55
  Speaker B: See? As rich as af.
• 6:56
  Speaker A: Well, people, I want to say words. He was well off. People assume. I don't say people. Me, I assume. If you're jazz, right? It's, like, from the hood, like, the neighborhood. Like, you are coming up. You lived a hard life, and, like, jazz is your chosen language. Right. And music to share your story.
• 7:13
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 7:14
  Speaker A: That's what I always thought jazz was born from those poor cities, but I
• 7:19
  Speaker B: think he was born there. But I don't know, because we have, like, Juilliard and we have all these other places where.
• 7:24
  Speaker A: Well, obviously. And spoiler, he went to Juilliard. So, like, look at that.
• 7:28
  Speaker B: I'm so sophisticated that he's doing.
• 7:31
  Speaker A: His dad was a dental surgeon. An accomplished dental surgeon. Like, made money. His mom was a accomplished violinist. Organist, like, musician.
• 7:40
  Speaker B: He was destined for greatness.
• 7:41
  Speaker A: No, no. Right, right, right. They had, like, a good house. They even had a farm in Arkansas. Like, was a separate property. They had properties. I mean, they had properties. So this guy grew up around money. Silver spoony. I don't know how rich, but silver spoony, for sure. Okay. Not at all what I pictured.
• 7:59
  Speaker B: I think you're being a little stereotypical here.
• 8:01
  Speaker A: I'm just telling you, like, that you
• 8:03
  Speaker B: are definitely pigeonholed jazz players with this stereotype.
• 8:09
  Speaker A: I'm sorry. That was not my point.
• 8:11
  Speaker B: And Miles Davis just shattered your stereotype, which I will say is, I think, something that we all do collectively in society. We all have stereotypes. There's an argument. There's a little truth to a stereotype. However, I think the growth and sophistication comes to when we can recognize our perceived stereotypes and grow from that. So good job. Miles Davis has now blown apart your jazz stereotype. And now. Okay, talk about Jedi, mind you a little bit.
• 8:38
  Speaker A: Okay. And I was just saying I think he was awesome because he. He spoke with his music, and I just assumed it was because of hard times. Okay? I don't know how much stereotype was really going on, but thank you for the therapy couch, Amanda. I appreciate it. Okay, can I move on?
• 8:54
  Speaker B: Go ahead.
• 8:55
  Speaker A: So it all starts on his 13th birthday. He gets a trumpet from his dad, and his teacher, some guy named Elwood Buchanan tells him something that changes his life forever.
• 9:05
  Speaker B: Oh, yes.
• 9:05
  Speaker A: Forever.
• 9:06
  Speaker B: Yes, ever.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: So I guess at that time, because I didn't know any of this stuff, every famous trumpet player was doing something called the vibrato, playing with, like, big energy and big drama. Right? Like. But Elwood tells Miles, don't play with vibrato. Don't shake the note. Just play clean, fast, and direct. That's a quote. I have no idea what I'm talking about. And that stuck with Miles Davis and became his entire identity. So thank you, Elwood Buchanan, little known fact, who basically made Miles who he is. So if you ever listen to Miles early stuff, you. It was really quiet and super intimate, like, way different than what trumpet players were really doing back then. So it's kind of sort of like he was talking to you through his music, not performing the way trumpet players were performing. Right. So a lot of credit's got to go to Elwood. That's the start. Okay, then at 17, Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker. The Bird. Charlie Parker, Jazz episode. Go back and listen, folks. What was it called? Grant Park Gets Groovin when we did. Yeah, yeah. It was about the Chicago Jazz Festival. Anyway, two biggest names in jazz. Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker. At that time, we're in, like, the 1940s. They're already famous, and they're playing in St. Louis, by the way. Total, another rabbit hole. Did you know East St. Louis and St. Louis are, like, right across the river from each other? And they're like, one big. East St. Louis is a suburb of St. Louis. Because I'm like, where's. What is East St. Louis, Illinois? Where does that go?
• 10:25
  Speaker B: Did you know Kansas City? In Kansas City, there are ones in Missouri and one's in Kansas.
• 10:30
  Speaker A: Right, right. So, yeah, okay, whatever. That was a whole nother thing. I had a little. But here we are. So anyway, Dizzy and Charlie Parker are playing at St. Louis, and their trumpet player gets sick. Miles Davis is 17 years old. Somebody says, hey, there's this kid who's been playing all these clubs in this area, and he's pretty decent. So they go grab Miles Davis, put him on stage at 17 years old, and he starts ripping it next to the two biggest jazz giants on the planet. On the planet. That's how it starts.
• 10:57
  Speaker B: That's Incredible.
• 10:57
  Speaker A: It's totally incredible. I feel like Michael Jackson y. Right.
• 11:00
  Speaker B: I love when there's, like, this moment. A lot of the people that we've been, like, talking about and looking at their lives, which is like the Crucible, right? Where it was just, like, a happenstance and it just happened. Like, they just. Their lives got turned upside down. They were found or, I mean, naturally talented. Just crazy. It gets me thinking of, like, oh, I'm just not that good at anything. To be like,
• 11:25
  Speaker A: well, good for you for still trying. I gave up. I gave up on that a long time ago. I'm not naturally talented. You're naturally talented. I'm not naturally talented.
• 11:34
  Speaker B: I mean, everyone's naturally talent still doesn't do.
• 11:35
  Speaker A: Okay, well, I haven't found my thing either, then.
• 11:37
  Speaker B: All right, fine, here we go. But he was 17.
• 11:39
  Speaker A: He was 17.
• 11:40
  Speaker B: So then did he go to school? Did he just start his career? What happened?
• 11:43
  Speaker A: He did. He went to Juilliard. Literally. No joke. That's absolutely.
• 11:47
  Speaker B: No, I thought you were kidding earlier.
• 11:48
  Speaker A: No, you are absolutely correct. He goes to Juilliard because he wants to go to New York, because that's where like, Dizzy and Charlie Parker are anyway, because they're. Cause jazz is big in New York, so they were just out in St. Louis. They go to New York. So he follows them, basically goes there. And so he only. He was only at Juilliard for, like, three semesters, and then he dropped out. So his parents, like, are thinking he's in school and he's playing clubs now with Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. Like, it's kind of crazy in Harlem. I think that must be so cool. So what is he, 20 years old? He's just being a total badass, right? Goes to school, goes and plays in clubs at night. Oh, my God. I'm getting chills. Me with me with the music. Anyway, so drops out of school. That's it. But didn't matter because now he's famous.
• 12:26
  Speaker B: Did he trick his parents into paying for his.
• 12:28
  Speaker A: No, I don't want to say that. No, that's bullshit. But he, like, he had a real sort of secondary reason to go to New York and Juilliard, and then he just didn't want to stay because it worked. It all right. And good for him. Absolutely. So now he's playing all the clubs in New York and let me be more sophisticated, because he's not just playing jazz music. Because, I mean, jazz is, like, the overarching theme, right? Like jazz. But he's playing bebop because bebop Was super famous in the 1940s. And that's a sub genre of like sort of this fast kind of play that was going on back then.
• 12:58
  Speaker B: Wait, hold on. You said earlier that he started with slow jazz.
• 13:01
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 13:02
  Speaker B: And so now he's like found a different. Is like his first reinvention.
• 13:06
  Speaker A: That's not. This isn't his first. No, no, no. This was just. Don't play with vibrato. Don't shake the note. That was Elwood Buchanan's like lessons. But then as he got into bebop, he was like, oh my. He just got awesome at playing the trumpet. Let's be honest.
• 13:16
  Speaker B: He was just developing.
• 13:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, he was just developing and he was totally awesome. He was just excellent and got famous. Okay, this isn't even the start. The reinvention like starts now.
• 13:24
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 13:25
  Speaker A: Like we're going to start with the first.
• 13:26
  Speaker B: So like he. He started. He was slow. He got thrown on stage.
• 13:30
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:30
  Speaker B: Was discovered, did Juilliard for a little bit and then found his crowd now doing bebop.
• 13:37
  Speaker A: Quickly got bored and said like, oh my God, I have to reinvent my. Yes. And this starts at 20. Yeah. Cause he was a genius. Okay, I gotta frame this because it's kind of wild. So like think of most other musicians, right? Like Elvis Presley or Louis Armstrong, Frank Sinatra, like they're all geniuses. They obviously have a.
• 13:53
  Speaker B: He's a musician. I feel like he's a genius.
• 13:54
  Speaker A: Except I'm arguing that they took their genius and like followed it and went deeper and deeper into being excellent and finding their voice. Because you follow Frank Sinatra, you follow Elvis Presley. Like, that's sort of what it was. Michael Jackson, right? Same thing. This guy was like, yeah, no, I'm going sideways. Like, we're not going the same direction at all. I'm bored and I have to recreate something. This is how like.
• 14:14
  Speaker B: So he's an ADHD genius. Got it.
• 14:16
  Speaker A: That's what it is.
• 14:16
  Speaker B: So what he actually did.
• 14:17
  Speaker A: Okay, so here we are, 1949. So. So he's already famous now. Bebop. Thank you very much. Out of nowhere he's like, this is not where music wants me to go anymore. So assembles a nine piece band, complete with. Yes, complete with a French horn, a tuba and a trombone. Which mind you, back in 1949, that didn't exist in a jazz band, like ever. Not like crazy. What are you doing? Right? Goes back, starts recording stuff way softer, more orchestra. So maybe back to good old Elwood. Maybe. There's that whole village vibe coming back. Right? So kind of cool, kind of chill.
• 14:48
  Speaker B: Are you gonna tell me right now that he created cool jazz?
• 14:50
  Speaker A: He created cool jazz?
• 14:51
  Speaker B: No.
• 14:52
  Speaker A: Cool jazz did not exist. Yes. He was playing bebop and he started the genre. Cool jazz did not exist at all. Brand new language. People were like, what is happening? I don't even understand this. And of course, folks that liked bebop were like, I don't even know if I like you anymore. What did you just do to me?
• 15:09
  Speaker B: Right, Right.
• 15:09
  Speaker A: So we lose this idea.
• 15:10
  Speaker B: I mean, usually that's like a musician suicide.
• 15:13
  Speaker A: Right? Thank you very much. And it went bat shit crazy. It goes bonkers.
• 15:18
  Speaker B: Then why did he leave it?
• 15:19
  Speaker A: Because he got bored. Adhd. You said it. Right? I mean, not diagnosed. I didn't find it anywhere. But 10 out of 10, I believe.
• 15:27
  Speaker B: Or do you think that he, like, there was a high that he got for creating something new and maybe he's always, like, chasing that high again.
• 15:33
  Speaker A: I can't find that crap on the Internet. I don't even know.
• 15:35
  Speaker B: I'm just curious.
• 15:36
  Speaker A: I think maybe he just, like gallivanting around, like, from one thing to the other. Right. So easy. I told you. Okay, here we are.
• 15:41
  Speaker B: Should have picked a different word.
• 15:42
  Speaker A: So that's. That's cool jazz. So then here's where we go next. And now he's in his early 30s, totally a legend now for bebop. Cool jazz, bebop doesn't count, but legend. So he decides, I'm gonna try heroin. Because, you know, side quest. He needs to be a drug addict for a few years. Cause everybody does. So he's doing heroin for like five years, somehow kicks it by himself, cold turkey, mind you. Like, out of nowhere.
• 16:02
  Speaker B: That's impressive.
• 16:03
  Speaker A: Shows up at the Newport Jazz Festival and plays a song called Round Midnight, if you ever heard it. Unbelievable. And the entire jazz community shits their pants immediately and said, what just happened? I don't even understand. This is not bebop and this is not cool jazz.
• 16:17
  Speaker B: What was it?
• 16:18
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 16:18
  Speaker B: Or what did it become?
• 16:19
  Speaker A: I guess I should say this one's called hard Bop. Okay, Sorry. Not bebop. Hard Bop. Yes. So it was totally new. Nobody ever heard it before. So basically took everything bebop did, like all the fast notes, all, like, the attitude, Right. And pushed it back onto the streets, back into the church, like God Think gospel. Yeah. Meets Emotion from the Streets, that kind of stuff. Right. And thanks to that one performance, that one performance around midnight at the Newport Jazz Festival, Columbia Records signs him immediately on the spot. And so Miles grabs John Coltrane, you've probably heard of this person. Saxophone player Philly Joe, Jo Jones on the drums, Paul Chambers on bass, and Red Garland on the piano. Hall of Fame All Star lineup. And they go on to record Milestones, which has literally became, quote, one of the most critically acclaimed jazz albums ever to be recorded. I just listened to it last night before we recorded this episode. Dude, it's. It's. It's the ultimate.
• 17:14
  Speaker B: Well, I'll have to listen to it on the Milestones.
• 17:16
  Speaker A: It's unbelievable. And it. That's what you would call hard bop. Okay.
• 17:20
  Speaker B: All right.
• 17:20
  Speaker A: So. So he's. Now he's done it twice. Okay. I don't even know what's happening. We're not even halfway done. We just did two. This is crazy. Okay, so third time he does this, blows all of it up again. Bebop, cool jazz, hard bop. Basically what they call the harmonic system of jazz. Cause he's still now using the same, like, ideas and whatever. I don't know chords or whatever. Bear with me here. Let me get sophisticated for a second. I know this is gonna get a little weird. So I had to figure all this. I didn't know any of this shit either. So in doing all my research, I learned that jazz, like, western music, up to this point, really all of it was built on what you would call chord changes. Paul probably knows about this. I don't know this. Drew knows this. The idea that chords have a relationship with each other, and certain chords naturally go together from one to the next. There's like a pull, like a gravity. They want to work together. Okay. And jazz artists, especially bebop, had to learn how to play through these, like, really fast, really complex chord progressions to make their music awesome. Right? And so Cool jazz was still doing that. So was hard bop. They were just doing it a little differently. Okay with me so far. So Miles gets bored one day and looks at all this and goes, what if I just throw out the chords and just play what he called modes, where you just sort of park it on one scale or like a mood, I guess, and just sit there and see where it goes. There's no next chord. There's no pole. You're not anticipating anything. Okay. So you're just gonna, like, chill in one place and vibe.
• 18:35
  Speaker B: It's like we're not telling a story. We're just along for the ride.
• 18:37
  Speaker A: We're just getting in the zone. Like, you're smoking weed and getting in the zone. Which absolutely blew up jazz and created what's called modal jazz. Have you heard of modal jazz.
• 18:48
  Speaker B: No.
• 18:48
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. Okay. So modal jazz, that you would argue that's his most.
• 18:52
  Speaker B: And this is after he had his little heroin escapade.
• 18:54
  Speaker A: Yes. This was after Kicks it cold turkey. Kicks it actually went again. Nice to have money. Goes to his pops farm in Arkansas. Remember I said he had like a property there? Yeah. He went over there and kicked it cold turkey. Then comes back, does a Newport jazz festival, does all this stuff. Yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker B: Hard bop. And then now he's done modal jazz.
• 19:10
  Speaker A: Now he's doing modal jazz. And modal jazz. Okay. Super famous album. It's called Kinda Blue. It's probably. It is the ultimate. Okay. It became the best selling jazz album in human history.
• 19:19
  Speaker B: Crazy.
• 19:20
  Speaker A: Five million copies sold. Still counting. Completely blew up and like rewired how every musician in the world thought how you could improvise music. And I don't mean jazz. I mean like any music. So if you. If you're the people you listen to today, those people were like, inspired by the fact that he created modal jazz and was able to sort of throw out the playbook completely. This one is probably the biggest one he created by far.
• 19:49
  Speaker B: I think it's crazy how if you just think about how everyone just likes different types of music or different styles of music or fill the blank. How because jazz is not my typical go to thing. All of this is new information to me.
• 20:03
  Speaker A: Okay. You have.
• 20:04
  Speaker B: Right.
• 20:05
  Speaker A: Do you cook at home? Do you like Alexa or something at home? Just put it on in the background.
• 20:09
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 20:10
  Speaker A: So I try. I've tried my whole life. Gabby was not a music person, but I'll always try to listen to different music that I've never heard of before. When I make dinner.
• 20:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, but I think that's like a you thing.
• 20:20
  Speaker A: I know, but it's so awesome.
• 20:22
  Speaker B: Yes. I'm not arguing it's not awesome. Just I'm amazed at how we all kind of live in our own little bubbles. And so if it's not in our bubble. And that's why we do the podcast and that's why it's so cool. But it's fascinating to me. Right. I don't listen to jazz. It's not my go to.
• 20:39
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:39
  Speaker B: I fill in the blank. And I am so fascinated. I'm captivated.
• 20:43
  Speaker A: If you're gonna do anything, I'm only at number three. Right? You're doing anything. You gotta listen to Kind of Blue. Just put the music on in the background. Seriously, you'll like it. I know you will. Grab a glass of Wine. Just listen. Listen to it. It's unbelievable. Okay, all right, number four, here we go. Okay, so now it's like 1969, 1970s, in his early 40s, rock and roll.
• 20:58
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 20:59
  Speaker A: Starts hitting the scene. Okay, so he's listening to James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, that kind of stuff. And he's like, holy shit, I got to figure out how to do this. But with jazz. So he picks up an electric guitar.
• 21:06
  Speaker B: Of course.
• 21:07
  Speaker A: Yes. Grabs some synthesizers, decides it's time to create something new that they later coined jazz fusion.
• 21:12
  Speaker B: Well, it has to be a fusion.
• 21:13
  Speaker A: I mean, that's the fourth one, Jazz fusion. Okay. So he records an album called Bitches Brew. Yeah. Which is super long sleep. Psychedelic rock, jazz fusiony. And to market it, he opened. He opened for the Grateful Dead. Miles Davis, who had been famous forever now and could, like, you know, attract any crowd he wanted to, was like, yeah, if I'm gonna do this, I gotta. I gotta find the right audience. So he goes and opens for the Grateful Dead in San Francisco at the Fillmore Theater.
• 21:41
  Speaker B: That's crazy.
• 21:42
  Speaker A: Everybody went bonkers for it because they were like, now he's in rock and roll, right? Jazz fusion. Here's the problem with it, though, because all the jazz purists called him a sellout because they were like, bullshit. Now you just sort of mainstream this shit and you, like, got again.
• 21:55
  Speaker B: That's the musician suicide, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker A: He was chasing the trend. And then all the black press said he was, quote, genuflecting to white culture.
• 22:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, right.
• 22:05
  Speaker A: Because there wasn't a lot of black musicians doing that then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So every time he did this, he was getting shit on. But yet what's hysterical is he doesn't cave because he doesn't care. Right? So check this out. So Bitches Brew, the album.
• 22:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker A: Makes it onto, like, the rock, pop, whatever, top 40. Not jazz, the mainstream top 40. Yeah, yeah. He performed it in England, like, wherever they were, I don't know. To a crowd of 600,000 people.
• 22:34
  Speaker B: What?
• 22:34
  Speaker A: Yes. So what's hilarious about this, I think, is just hysterical. Every time the jazz purists wrote him off, there was a whole nother group of people that were like, nope, I'm on your new bandwagon. And didn't necessarily like his old stuff, but there was enough people out there that he, like, didn't ever care. Yeah, yeah, I know. I think that's wild. And fun fact. Right before Jimi Hendrix died, like, right before he overdosed, they were set to do a collaboration, the two of them, which I think Would have been incredible.
• 23:05
  Speaker B: But then, was it meant to be?
• 23:07
  Speaker A: That's it. He died.
• 23:08
  Speaker B: Oh, sad day.
• 23:09
  Speaker A: Super sad.
• 23:10
  Speaker B: Epic.
• 23:10
  Speaker A: Yep. Shout out to Jeanette. We were able to get our dead person in. Okay, right. Poor Jeanette. She's been waiting for one for a while. You got it.
• 23:17
  Speaker B: You got it.
• 23:17
  Speaker A: Okay, so we're like four deep now. He's like. Now he's tired. He's exhausted. I mean, he's done a lot of work. You know what I mean? He's put in. He's put in decades of work. I mean, addicted to heroin, right? And then he had to kick that habit. Jazz community can't decide if they love him or hate him. His health is a mess. He had sickle cell anemia. Apparently he was born with sickle cell anemia. I didn't. I totally forgot to mention that. Sorry. So in 1975, he decides, fuck it. He disappears. Like, not for a little while.
• 23:40
  Speaker B: Over it?
• 23:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm over it. Like, for years and years. Like five years. Disappears. Like everybody.
• 23:44
  Speaker B: He just, like, thought that was, like, the pinnacle for him, that he just, you know.
• 23:47
  Speaker A: Well, every other time it was a pinnacle, he was like, start over, start over. Hit the pinnacle. Start over.
• 23:51
  Speaker B: Maybe Jimmy dying did a number on him. Who knows?
• 23:53
  Speaker A: It could have been. I don't know. But anyway, that's it. He's gone. Disappears. And then, da, da, da, here he goes back. He's back at it. 1980 comes back out. He's like, I got one more in me. I'm doing number five. This is the last one. It wasn't quite a new genre. It sort of was, but it's like a sub. It's like a sub genre. Okay, it doesn't. But he still gets credit for it, in my opinion. Still insanely innovative. So imagine Miles Davis in 1985 trying to make pop music. What was going on in 1985? Think of, like, Prince. Think of, like, that kind of music. Yeah, yeah. Synthesizers, electric bass, drum machines, all that shit. But then he added his signature trumpet on top of all that and coined it pop jazz or, like funk jazz. Not a real genre. It's not like you can find that anywhere. But genre adjacent, that's what we're going to call it. And of course, all the jazz purists immediately said, you suck. Sell out. But doesn't matter, because he's absolutely, ridiculously famous yet again. And he blew the doors off it, as he always does. So he releases his new album called tutu in 1986, and it was named for Desmond Tutu. The Nobel Peace prize winner, the 1984 guy who. The archbishop in South Africa.
• 25:00
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 25:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we talked about the album. Tutu wins two Grammy Awards, just like that, right? So everybody who hates him, everybody shits on him right in the end, still wins two Grammy Awards for this whole thing. That's him. That's his five reinventions. So I don't even know what they were, but, you know, bebop. No, not bebop. Cool jazz, hard bop, modal jazz, jazz fusion. And like, pop jazz or funk jazz, whatever it is. Funko, brother. There you go. That's him.
• 25:25
  Speaker B: But I think one could argue that he was kind of, like, entrepreneurial in a way.
• 25:30
  Speaker A: 100%.
• 25:30
  Speaker B: Right. I mean, while you were talking, like, I just. I looked him up a little bit, and, I mean, there's this quote that I think summarizes him perfectly, and it says, don't play what's there, play what's not there. And I basically. I feel like, again, being entrepreneur, like, he was. Went to figure out what the next step or next type of music was to be, and he created it.
• 25:52
  Speaker A: I would argue that's more genius.
• 25:54
  Speaker B: Which then opened the door for so many more musicians and creativity.
• 25:58
  Speaker A: I like that quote. I can't believe you Googled a quote that I spent four hours researching and didn't get it. That was excellent. But I would argue that's. I think he's more genius than any of them because. What did you say? Play what's not there. Most people couldn't play with there. Or most people are like, oh, I know it's there. I'm just gonna change it a little bit. This guy literally went into, like, the abyss and came up, created something. Created over and over and over again.
• 26:22
  Speaker B: But in all fairness, when you step away from what you've been dubbed good at, right? And it goes back, I think, even to our passion conversation.
• 26:31
  Speaker A: Who has the balls to do that?
• 26:33
  Speaker B: Well, you get shit for it, right? Like, why are you doing that? You just stick what you know, stick what you do.
• 26:38
  Speaker A: You did five times. Right?
• 26:39
  Speaker B: But he just didn't care.
• 26:40
  Speaker A: He did not care at all. Which I would argue his upbring, going to Juilliard, being well established, his mom. I'm gonna argue that helped him because he didn't need the music industry. Yeah, he didn't need it. He didn't give a shit from the beginning. Right. Which I do think helped in this case. Guy's still a genius. I know. Like, I've been making him sound like he's this superhero, but but it also
• 27:00
  Speaker B: goes maybe to where you came from and a little bit of the nepotism because you look like Lady Gaga. One would argue she don't care, she does what she wants. But she also came from a well established family, didn't need it. Miley Cyrus, I mean, it's the opposite of what you thought brought about jazz. Right. It was like you're telling a story, you're finding something.
• 27:23
  Speaker A: I see where you're going.
• 27:23
  Speaker B: Versus the other side of the coin would be, no, I'm doing this because I love it, it's a passion, not because I need it.
• 27:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. But here's the deal. Like I will say this though. When he disappeared for five years, wasn't just health related, he was also broke. It wasn't like his parents were supporting him anymore. And because of the whole, the bebop people didn't like the cool jazz, the cool jazz people didn't like the modal jazz, so on and so forth. Each time there was a restart.
• 27:45
  Speaker B: It's kind of like the King, like Elvis, I mean.
• 27:48
  Speaker A: Yeah, but Elvis stayed with his same.
• 27:49
  Speaker B: He did. But I think it's the same flow, right. Of got a lot of money.
• 27:53
  Speaker A: It's also probably because geniuses don't know how to manage their money. Who knows?
• 27:56
  Speaker B: I don't know that too.
• 27:56
  Speaker A: Maybe we should do one on that. That's why we're so good at managing our money. Right. Because we're not geniuses. Because we're not geniuses. I don't know. Whatever. But also, he wasn't the best human either. And I do sort of have to say that because apparently we didn't get in a personal life, but married and divorced three times.
• 28:11
  Speaker B: Oh yeah.
• 28:12
  Speaker A: A little violent with the ladies.
• 28:14
  Speaker B: I mean, there's a, there's some of
• 28:15
  Speaker A: that shit going on. I can't not say because everybody be like, oh my God, he was the best. He wasn't. He was addicted to heroin, he beat his wives.
• 28:24
  Speaker B: But I feel like if you look at everybody who lives at that upper echelon lifestyle, it just seems to follow.
• 28:31
  Speaker A: It does.
• 28:32
  Speaker B: And maybe it's because you just have so much money.
• 28:34
  Speaker A: Entitled.
• 28:35
  Speaker B: Yeah. Like you just. I don't know.
• 28:36
  Speaker A: But then we don't know how to manage your money. So you get broke and then you come up with five different reinventions. Which I'm not saying it's the reason why I did it, but I'm just saying it is. It's like a weird juxtaposition. That's all I'm saying it is it's very hard.
• 28:46
  Speaker B: But you know what's also fascinating how, again, everything is connected at a very basic human level. Our lives of how we start kind of. And, like, the trajectory it goes, but how it all kind of comes back again. In this upper echelon, you kind of fall victim to a lot of things because you think you're better than. Or you're just at a different level, or fill in the blank. Or when you're, you know, on the bottom and you're rising up and then you get swept up with the fame and then you're chasing the fame. At the core of it, though, we are all humans. We all struggle with the same things.
• 29:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Speaker B: And so maybe a fascinating thought of just how, even with him, even though he was amazing and Grammys and all the things created five different genres, he's still just a human.
• 29:28
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 29:29
  Speaker B: And so.
• 29:29
  Speaker A: Right. And so you just see that part. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
• 29:32
  Speaker B: Like, we humanize everybody more in our daily lives. Maybe we wouldn't be so angry all the time comparing or.
• 29:39
  Speaker A: That's why we shouldn't put all these musicians up on pedestals, even though they're all. Don't get me wrong, they're geniuses. I like the idea of geniuses, but you're right. At the end of the day, they're all humans.
• 29:46
  Speaker B: But I think that's also what makes us a little cultured, Right?
• 29:48
  Speaker A: Yes. And curious. Speaking of curious, I never looked up if he did a collaboration with Michael Jackson. Can you look that up real quick?
• 29:55
  Speaker B: Oh, okay.
• 29:55
  Speaker A: I want to know, but I'm gonna tell you the whole. Why it matters, why you looked that up.
• 29:58
  Speaker B: Okay, good.
• 29:59
  Speaker A: Because the whole. Let's bring it to the reason why we're talking about Miles so listeners can take something away. So here's the deal. In today's society, right, we live in this world where we're trying to pretend we keep it all together all the time. Our egos. Right. Our egos want us to look good no matter what. And we have this nice little upstanding reputation. And you can't really afford to make mistakes or be bad at something. Which is why a lot of people don't wanna try anything new. Cause we'll be found out. So my point is, we're absolutely terrified of pivoting for what I would call our fear of failure. Yes.
• 30:28
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 30:28
  Speaker A: Would you agree? Okay. But Miles wasn't terrified. He was completely opposite. So I'm arguing that as a culture, and I am totally generalizing here, we're limiting ourselves and putting ourselves in this little box. Cause we're scared of being judged instead of living out our truly authentic life. Like, we're hiding a little bit of ourselves. So if there's anything that we can learn from Miles Davis on his hundredth birthday, I'm gonna say that we only have whatever time we're giving. So sort of f everyone else and just experiment and find out what you are good at and who you really are. Cause, like, Taylor Swift says, the hater's gonna hate. You know what I mean?
• 31:05
  Speaker B: I feel like it's a great play off of our last week episode. Let's go about passion, right? And.
• 31:10
  Speaker A: Well. Cause, like, look about, look about.
• 31:12
  Speaker B: Try it.
• 31:12
  Speaker A: Are we these great podcast hosts? No. No. You'd argue we're not. I get it. Right? But we're just doing it. And there's people that like, oh, my God, he's so stupid. I get comments as soon as you open your mouth on the. On the Internet or on YouTube or whatever. I get comments all the time. It's like 10 hate comments for every one Nice comment, right? Oh, my God, the white man explaining this to us again.
• 31:31
  Speaker B: Oh.
• 31:32
  Speaker A: Which is totally fine. Like, I don't care. It sucks. But, like, that's so sad. But what are you gonna do? I'm at least trying to do something new. Like, I'm trying to figure it out. Whatever. So I'm just saying we should all try to live more like Miles. Don't beat your wife. Don't get me wrong. But, like, live more like Miles. Try something new. Like, get outside your box. Do the uncomfortable thing. And I think that.
• 31:51
  Speaker B: I mean, you're encouraging people to, like, change and grow and evolve.
• 31:54
  Speaker A: And I started this thinking, like, I mean, I'm a judger. Cut the shit. I mean, you know me. I judge everybody. I literally, before we sat down at this mic, I was judging people, and you were like, dude, what are you doing? I'm like, okay, let's harsh. Okay, whatever. But my point is still, I have to be better human. And this episode, which started with jazz, changed for me to be like, I gotta let people off the hook a little bit more. I gotta let people.
• 32:19
  Speaker B: Let people try.
• 32:19
  Speaker A: Let people try and fail and, like, not be like, oh, my God, how are you not good at that thing? Because I'm not good at something. I'm not good at a lot of shit, but I pretend that I am. And so I'm having.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: It's not true. You are good at it a lot.
• 32:31
  Speaker A: I'm having my own moment here. But, yeah, I got You. Right.
• 32:34
  Speaker B: Well, all that to say, we learned a little bit about jazz. We learned a lot about yourself.
• 32:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, we did.
• 32:40
  Speaker B: Self reflection. I think, though, I just want to say thank you for going through all those comments because I do not have the tough skin that you have. I was just like, quit. And so I just ignore all of that.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: Oh, no. I have to write back so politely.
• 32:51
  Speaker B: Oh, you're.
• 32:52
  Speaker A: Hey, I'm just trying to be sort of sophisticated over here. Thanks so much. I appreciate you listening. What are you going to do?
• 32:56
  Speaker B: Right, Yeah, I just ignore. I just don't look at it or engage, but so I commend you for engaging because I think that dialogue is important. I think I. I do. I love this podcast because we get to kind of explore and dive a little deeper into things that we wouldn't. And especially because there's so many naysayers and negativity out there. People, it's not worth the effort. Right. Like, it just. I think people quit before they even start all the time with this. And with Miles Davis, I would argue that, like you said, the biggest thing, not about his music or about what he did or even his personal life. Like, we're not saying to go and
• 33:31
  Speaker A: model or jazz music or model. Right? Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker B: Don't worry about what the naysayers are going to say. If you're curious about something, go do it. Try it.
• 33:41
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah.
• 33:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. Well, now that we've used our little Jedi mind trick.
• 33:46
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 33:47
  Speaker B: We got some fun facts. I know there was one fun fact, I think from the last jazz episode about him. Right. Something about playing behind his back maybe.
• 33:55
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's not a fun fact for this week. But yes, he absolutely played with his back to the audience because if you remember, he wasn't performing, he was just making music. And so the audience would be confused and he was like, I don't really give a shit. Like, you can be here, you cannot be here. Right, Absolutely. Yeah, I do remember that. That was a good one. Okay, but first, before fun facts, I want to talk about the movie. There's a movie coming out.
• 34:12
  Speaker B: Oh, there's always a movie.
• 34:14
  Speaker A: There's always a movie because. Yeah. 100th birthday. Dah dah dah dah. It's in pre production right now. I don't know when it's coming out. They say late 26. I don't know if that's true. It's called Miles and Juliet and it is their full on true love story. So it goes like this. So 1949, Miles Davis who was already famous, by the way, goes to Paris for a jazz festival and falls in love with a French singer named Juliette Greco. Greco. This is a white French woman, Amanda, in 1949, falling in love with an American black dude. Okay, so the movie is all about them spending time together. Only in Paris, because that's where Miles felt free enough to be who he wanted. Because Paris didn't give a shit he was black like America did.
• 34:48
  Speaker B: Oh, interesting.
• 34:49
  Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. In Paris, he was considered a famous musician. In America, he was considered a famous black musician, which isn't awesome. So, spoiler. He ends up coming back to America even though Juliet begs him not to, because music is his first love. And Damson, Idris, I don't know if you remember, the guy in F1 played with Brad Pitt. Yes. So he is playing Miles and Anna Maria Vartolome. I don't know if I said that right. For Mickey, 17. She plays Juliet. So it's going to be awesome. Due out before the end of 26. Everybody look for it. Okay, Movie plug, on to fun facts. Here we go. Number one favorite.
• 35:22
  Speaker B: And by movie plug, I think you would say Pop Culture plug.
• 35:26
  Speaker A: Pop culture plug.
• 35:27
  Speaker B: Take what you learn, go see it. Because people are going to be talking about it.
• 35:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, they are.
• 35:30
  Speaker B: And you're going to be one step ahead of everyone. Just saying yes. Okay.
• 35:33
  Speaker A: All right. Fun fact 1. Want to guess how long it took Miles Davis to record the album Kind of Blue? Like his most famous album.
• 35:38
  Speaker B: A whole album. Like 13 songs.
• 35:41
  Speaker A: Kind of blue. Months. Two days.
• 35:43
  Speaker B: No.
• 35:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, that was it. Two days, actually. Actually two sessions. You'll appreciate this. Four hours each. So technically eight hours.
• 35:50
  Speaker B: That's crazy.
• 35:52
  Speaker A: I know. Best selling jazz album in human history. Takes eight hours to record. Unbelievable. Super fun fact. The scales that he used to perform, Miles only gave them to his buddies the same morning they started to record. So, like, no rehearsal, zero. Totally raw dogged that entire album.
• 36:08
  Speaker B: They're just jamming.
• 36:09
  Speaker A: Everything you hear, almost everything you hear on that album is first take. Just go. Yes, that's my point. That's. You just gotta listen to. It wasn't even.
• 36:15
  Speaker B: AI.
• 36:15
  Speaker A: No. It's unbelievable. Okay, all right, number two. Did you know Miles Davis made it on GQ's list of most stylish musicians of all time?
• 36:22
  Speaker B: Huh?
• 36:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. Not like top 10 or anything. Number one.
• 36:25
  Speaker B: Really? Was he that stylish dude?
• 36:27
  Speaker A: He was wearing Armani. He was wearing Armani before Armani knew what Armani was.
• 36:32
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 36:32
  Speaker A: That's how he made Armani famous.
• 36:34
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 36:35
  Speaker A: He was rocking the Capes and the sunglasses. You've seen pictures of this guy, right? Like, he had the total badass sunglasses. While everyone in jazz was still dressing like their, like, insurance broker guy.
• 36:44
  Speaker B: He got the cool vibes. He brought it.
• 36:45
  Speaker A: He did. Number three, did you know there's a postage stamp with his face on it? It was published in 2012. Kind of insane when you think about it, to end up on a postage stamp. I'm arguing. You gotta be pretty famous. They don't just put anybody on a post. I'm not a post stamp. You know what I mean? Shit, right? And finally, since this year he would have turned 100, they're having something called a We Want Miles tribute tour that's going to run all summer long.
• 37:09
  Speaker B: All right?
• 37:10
  Speaker A: Marcus Miller and some former Davis bandmates are taking it on the road through North America and Europe. Festivals, concerts, exhibitions, even events in his old hometown of East St. Louis, Illinois, which now is a museum, by the way, his little lake house. Yes, the jazz world is going big here. Who can blame him? Going to be big.
• 37:29
  Speaker B: There's always a time, huge, whenever these things happen, like the festivals or the remembrance or the parties and stuff. I'm so bad because, like, in America and our, you know, corporate greed or just greed in general, I'm always like, well, who's making the money off of this?
• 37:42
  Speaker A: That's your first thought? Yeah.
• 37:43
  Speaker B: Like, is it his, like, foundation? Right.
• 37:45
  Speaker A: Or is it, like, Right.
• 37:46
  Speaker B: Or is it just like, these guys who are like, yeah, we can make more few.
• 37:49
  Speaker A: Remember we did the Michael Jackson episode?
• 37:51
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:52
  Speaker A: All. There was so much backlash about, oh, the Jackson estate. And it's just, they want money and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I get it, it's true. But also, oh, my God, why can't we just, like, enjoy it? So here's what I've been working on lately. No bullshit. And I don't want to go down this whole rabbit hole, but, like, start with positive intent. Start with positive intent. Every single human you meet, start with positive intent.
• 38:13
  Speaker B: Like, why lead with Gracie?
• 38:15
  Speaker A: Why do humans. It's like, no, what's the angle? What have we done as a culture?
• 38:19
  Speaker B: Like, I mean, I just told you, that's my first thought.
• 38:22
  Speaker A: I hate it. I'm working so hard to not do that. Okay, whatever.
• 38:26
  Speaker B: Okay, well, that was just. It was a lot, but a good. A lot. I feel like, okay, so let's just assume that they're going off of, well, intentions for this whole festival thing. So before that and for the movie, before just listening to the two albums where else would we start if we wanted to, like, really experience that?
• 38:44
  Speaker A: I think you just, like, stole all my thunder. I think those are the ones.
• 38:46
  Speaker B: Was it?
• 38:47
  Speaker A: Well, well, first of all, if you guys want the fun facts or you want the episode summary delivered to your inbox, DM us on Instagram. We'll send them out to you right away. Thank you very much for supporting the show. We appreciate it. So I would say First Milestones and Kind of Blue. Those are the two albums. Just go, listen. They're both amazing. And you'll tell the difference right away. Like, you don't know anything about jazz. I promise you. You don't. You can listen to one, listen to the other. You'll be, like, totally different. Oh, my God. Like, what is happening? Totally. No way is the same artist.
• 39:08
  Speaker B: Like, so just get ready to have your mind blown on the fact that you were even just learning different jazzes. Not even Miles Davis. No.
• 39:15
  Speaker A: Right. Just different. Right? Absolutely. I'd watched a documentary called Miles Davis Birth of the Cool. You remember when we did the Frank Sinatra the Rat Hack episode? Right. I love this. Birth of the Cool. It's not Birth of Cool. Birth of the Cool. It's on netfl covers. His whole life, his music, all the personal stuff, everything. Two hours long. Worth it? Totally worth it. And then finally, if the centennial tour is coming through your city, I would say figure out how to see a part of it or something. Like, you don't have to necessarily go to a concert, but yes, experience it. Why not? And then, of course, go see the new movie when it's released. And then you'll be awesome and sophisticated and you'll know everything about it way in advance.
• 39:49
  Speaker B: And until then, remember these few details to seem sort of sophisticated.
• 39:52
  Speaker A: Oh, she's taking over the show. What do we got?
• 39:55
  Speaker B: Number one. So he was born May 26, 1926. Little. Is that alliteration? Correct?
• 40:02
  Speaker A: Is that a number? Alliteration? I don't know. Does that count?
• 40:04
  Speaker B: Okay, but he grew up in East St. Louis, Illinois, I think. Right.
• 40:08
  Speaker A: Suburb. Suburb of.
• 40:09
  Speaker B: Suburb of St. Louis. Raised by a dental surgeon and a trained musician.
• 40:13
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 40:14
  Speaker B: Probably where he got all of his crazy IQ, talent, creativity. He moved to New York at 18 after he got pulled up onto a stage at 17 with some legends. And he, like, handled it really well. So he went to Juilliard, which, Not a joke. Reality. And by that time, he was already considered one of the great trumpet voices of his generation. In his, like, mid-20s. Ish.
• 40:35
  Speaker A: Oh, by far. Okay, Absolutely.
• 40:37
  Speaker B: Then he did something that Almost nobody else in music history has done.
• 40:40
  Speaker A: I'm going to say that. No one in music history has done. Yes.
• 40:42
  Speaker B: Actually no one. We're going to go.
• 40:44
  Speaker A: Yes, I'm saying that. I'm saying we're tmin it. Yeah.
• 40:47
  Speaker B: But he reinvented himself from scratch five, maybe six times. I don't know. I lost count along the way, if
• 40:52
  Speaker A: you want to count Bebop. I don't know.
• 40:53
  Speaker B: But each time though, he like kind of like peaked at what he already built and then decided to step away and created something else and peaked again.
• 40:59
  Speaker A: And so he was gallivanting around. Of course. Yeah. Let me say this. I'm sorry to interrupt your summary because it's perfect so far. He created a new language each time. This is like music is to me is language. So like think of like grammar. I'll have to say it's wtf.
• 41:11
  Speaker B: But it's like a new weight of connection too. Right. And so anyway.
• 41:14
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 41:15
  Speaker B: Amazing.
• 41:15
  Speaker A: Sorry.
• 41:16
  Speaker B: Speaking of the new languages. So there was cool jazz, hard bop, modal jazz, jazz fusion and like an electric jazz, pop jazz.
• 41:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That was the sub genre. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:27
  Speaker B: So each time though, he walked away from the genre he created which allow like, I would assume new musicians to come in and fill in behind him and. But it was like decades upon decades worth of creativity.
• 41:40
  Speaker A: Oh my God. We didn't entertain. Did he collaborate with Michael Jackson?
• 41:43
  Speaker B: Oh, no, he did a cover though.
• 41:46
  Speaker A: Miles Davis did a cover.
• 41:47
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 41:47
  Speaker A: Oh, but they were never like on stage. Okay, all right, sorry, sorry. Go ahead, continue. Finish the summary, baby. Finish the summary.
• 41:53
  Speaker B: Albums. So kind of blue.
• 41:55
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 41:55
  Speaker B: Right. Largest selling jazz album ever made and was recorded in two days, about ish, eight hours.
• 42:01
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 42:02
  Speaker B: And it was like the musicians, all one take kind of.
• 42:06
  Speaker A: Yes, basically. Yes.
• 42:07
  Speaker B: So just hit it and there it was.
• 42:09
  Speaker A: Hit it and rip it. Let's go. Yeah.
• 42:10
  Speaker B: So if you think about it, when you listen to that album, you are vibing kind of with the musicians because it's not a separate take, it's not a practice take.
• 42:18
  Speaker A: Now you're getting it is like you are one. Thank you.
• 42:22
  Speaker B: With.
• 42:22
  Speaker A: I feel like you just. I feel like that was the click that I needed for the episode.
• 42:27
  Speaker B: But how many other albums that you've ever listened to where you can actually not.
• 42:31
  Speaker A: Right.
• 42:32
  Speaker B: Think about the fact that you are sitting with them in the first time. First run of the music coming together, no stops.
• 42:39
  Speaker A: I know.
• 42:40
  Speaker B: Like insane.
• 42:41
  Speaker A: I love it. I know.
• 42:42
  Speaker B: Okay, well. And finally I would have to say he didn't just make great music I think we talked about this at the end. He showed us what it was like when someone refuses to be grateful to an industry that wants to own you, and so you kind of do your own thing and you're not worried about failing?
• 42:55
  Speaker A: I'm not worried about what's going to happen, yes.
• 42:57
  Speaker B: Right. And so, I mean, there's still ugliness in his story, but what it looks like to push against the machine.
• 43:04
  Speaker A: Totally. I love that. That was perfect. That was good. Summary. I think you're summarizing from now on. That was good. All right, well, then I'm going to take over your part. There you have it, dear listeners. We started with a man who had every reason to stay exactly where he was, in his lane and make a shit ton of money, and decided, no, I'm going to spend my entire life proving that the most radical thing I could do instead is to refuse to do any of that. At the very least, we have to recognize that reinvention is not just a gift. It's a choice. And. And it costs you something every time you try to do it. Good on him. If we did our job today, you're walking away with something harder than a jazz education. You're walking away with a question about what it costs to keep starting over, about whether the people in your life are allowed to change, about whether you're giving them the permission to or quietly punishing them when they try. As always, if you liked what you listened to hit, subscribe, leave a review, share it with your friends. We would really appreciate it. Until next time, stay curious, stay fearless, and remember, the most sophisticated thing you can do is walk away from what you're best at. Right. When everyone's finally figured out how good you are at it, it'll always keep them guessing.