Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK SOLVED - Ep. 334 - Adventures In Podcasting

Transcript

JFK SOLVED - Ep. 334 - Adventures In Podcasting · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he's up to.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: It's picking me like chicken, shocking me like corn, storing
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: me like an ice stum.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Mean they putting nothing done.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: It stands right now, there's only two of us left alive.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: That's me and Santa Tropa County. As far as I'm
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: gonna still work, books, stay alive because I ain't gonna
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: say shit. Whether you aren't saying. There's any of you
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: assholes come near me, you better have a fucking army
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: with you, baby, But I've got my shit together, and
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I'll blow the first one of your motherfuckers away that
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: even comes near me, and that you can put in print.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: The Disruptor and Chief Elon Musk, who apparently has adopted
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: the alias at least he changed his social media handle
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: to Harry Balls, tweeted this morning, democracy in America is
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: being destroyed by judicial.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Yoyo.
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: It's your boy, the Tesla King, Elon Musk. The boys
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: always make my rocket shoot straight up. No, homo, you
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: about to listen to the number one JFK related podcast
• 1:05
  Speaker 5: on planet Mars. Now plug in your neural link for
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: two numb nuts who aren't a waste of government spending.
• 1:13
  Speaker 5: The triple b and Joe By.
• 1:19
  Speaker 6: Is that Tommy and Jobs Chokey spend a Trimble Brain
• 1:24
  Speaker 6: and t bes and Joby s rap conjob Redy tom
• 1:29
  Speaker 6: and Joby jobs and it Tram and Trimble bets and
• 1:34
  Speaker 6: show me Strap Dote shob Redy.
• 1:43
  Speaker 7: Collar Satan.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Shame, j Sellow, show kill We go, Here we go?
• 2:04
  Speaker 7: What's up? Everybody? Welcome into the show. This is episode
• 2:08
  Speaker 7: three hundred and thirty four of the Locomer podcast Adventures
• 2:14
  Speaker 7: in Podcasting. We have a very special guest for you
• 2:17
  Speaker 7: this sevening. But before we get in there, we would
• 2:19
  Speaker 7: like to welcome in our new channel member, T Busy.
• 2:23
  Speaker 7: That's right, Welcome, T Busy. I like this, Yes, T Busy, welcome.
• 2:29
  Speaker 7: You'd like to become a channel member? The link is
• 2:31
  Speaker 7: in the description. We make it real easy for you.
• 2:33
  Speaker 7: You get four extra shows a month on Wednesday nights,
• 2:37
  Speaker 7: and they are good ones. So if we do say
• 2:41
  Speaker 7: so ourselves, we do so without further ado. We were
• 2:49
  Speaker 7: on this gentleman's podcast a couple of weeks ago, and
• 2:53
  Speaker 7: now he is on ours. I think they call it
• 2:55
  Speaker 7: a swapcast, don't they, Joe?
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I think they do.
• 2:58
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we're kind of swapping spit with Matt. Solving JFK,
• 3:03
  Speaker 7: an excellent podcast, is just entering its third season. Matt
• 3:08
  Speaker 7: is although also, if I can speak, a co author
• 3:12
  Speaker 7: of the book Choke Holds that came out last year
• 3:15
  Speaker 7: and was featured on the documentary What the Doctors Saw,
• 3:20
  Speaker 7: which is an excellent documentary by the way. So without
• 3:24
  Speaker 7: further adieu, let's bring in Matt Crumpton, host of Solving
• 3:29
  Speaker 7: j f K. Matt, Welcome into the show, sir, how
• 3:34
  Speaker 7: are you doing Triple.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Being Joe Being?
• 3:36
  Speaker 7: Oh ship?
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 3:37
  Speaker 7: Is that a sign?
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: We'll just put it right here.
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: It's new.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: It's new, so I picked it up at the thrift
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: start today, so that's we'll get adhered better. And anyway, Yeah,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: thanks for having me, guys. I'm I'm happy to be here,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: and it's it's it's a weird situation to be someone
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: who you know, plausibly is supposed to know things, but
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: I know with absolute certain that the audience does so
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: much more than me and what I'm on this podcast
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: in particular, so it's I would say, it's a humbling
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: experience to be here. Thank you for having me on
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: your show.
• 4:11
  Speaker 7: Yes, yes, and we do we have an excellent cadre
• 4:16
  Speaker 7: of regulars that love to hang out with us here
• 4:19
  Speaker 7: on Friday nights, and let's welcome some of them into
• 4:22
  Speaker 7: the chat. Tiny Dancers here, Sally Social Outcast Club, Big
• 4:28
  Speaker 7: Clause up in here, Udine, Paul Cummings, Scott Alpha sixty
• 4:33
  Speaker 7: six which means there's also a link to Alpha sixty
• 4:37
  Speaker 7: six YouTube channel in this description because he was nice
• 4:40
  Speaker 7: enough to do some workforce last week and on our
• 4:43
  Speaker 7: Wednesday show, So if you like to check out his
• 4:45
  Speaker 7: videos and give him a follow, he was greatly appreciate it. Yeah,
• 4:50
  Speaker 7: and I'm sure more will straggle in as they come.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: T Busy said the picture fell down into the left.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I think this might be his first comment, and that's
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: an epic one.
• 5:03
  Speaker 7: Yes, a new member the Lone Gumbing Family. Bravo.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little different than your podcast when things happen
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: live and you know, you just got to kind of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: roll with it as we've learned, and I've learned.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: I love that there's so many different ones, you know.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I think it's cool. I think it's great, it's wonderful.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Anytime I had a situation where someone in life could
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: be a potential competitor or I could be cool and
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: see if we could collab. Collabing has always been the
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: way for the kid to beat me out for starting quarterback.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: But it's okay, he got injured.
• 5:40
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean we noticed a nice little bump the
• 5:43
  Speaker 7: man after we appeared on your show. In fact, we're
• 5:46
  Speaker 7: four subscriptions away from reaching two thousand holy shit, So
• 5:52
  Speaker 7: hopefully that happens within the next couple of days.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Cool.
• 5:55
  Speaker 7: So, yeah, thanks for the bump from being on your show,
• 5:58
  Speaker 7: and hopefully you get a little bump from up you know,
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: being on this show.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: There's a joke to be made there, but yes, thank you.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: All enjoyable, Yes, yeah, and I.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Think your your audience liked our episode. When we came
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: on with you about the Martins, I thought, uh oh, yeah,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: for sure. There was a lot of new information for
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: a significant part of your audience. And we're happy, we're
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: happy that got such a good reception.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was great, It was very good. Yeah, I
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: mean it keeps you know, the case keeps going. It's like, oh,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Marina had a business manager blah blah blah, and then
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: you're like, well, hang on, then you can kind of
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: pick the story up where where you know where it
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: had been left off, and that's that's kind of what's
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: nice about about uh, you know, trying to cover it
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: the way I'm trying to cover I mean, the thing
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: is you can never cover everything, so like you, just
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: knowing that I'm not going to get everything is one
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: of the key premises of the show. So whenever someone
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: calls me a dummy, I have to agree with them
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: rather quickly.
• 6:58
  Speaker 7: Well, I'm going into eleven years and I still haven't
• 7:01
  Speaker 7: covered everything. So how many years have you been doing
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: your show?
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Three?
• 7:06
  Speaker 7: This is this?
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: I started in the fall of twenty twenty two.
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: Gotcha? And now were you a podcast listener before? Were like,
• 7:15
  Speaker 7: what what made you want to do to actually do
• 7:18
  Speaker 7: a podcast?
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: I mean I had always followed the case. I mean
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: it probably started for me with the men who killed
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Kennedy around you know, early two thousands, when I was
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: in college.
• 7:34
  Speaker 7: And then I read not Part nine.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I read I read all the you know, not all,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: but I read like a lot of the big conspiracy books.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: I watched the Mark Lane documentary, I read Posner and
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: and you know, to me, it was like it was
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: too much of a mystery and I just didn't think
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: it was solvable. And then I went to law school
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: and kind of got you know, I was a litigator
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: for a while and I got used to having to
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: cite every single proposition of fact that I'm putting forth,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: and uh, doing that made me think, like, wait a minute, there,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: it would be nice to compare what each side says,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: because what happened is I thought I had So you know,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: when you start, I'm sure obviously you guys, your show's
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: great at this, you start to notice extra threads. You're like, wait,
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: I know this name, and I know and I know
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: this name, but I know them for other reasons, and
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: you're telling me there's this other thing that's related to
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: them too. Damn I didn't like so but but yeah,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: where was I going. I'm sorry, I thought Friday Night anyway. So, oh,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: we come back to things. We try to cover things.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know, my bad reading the comments on the side.
• 8:48
  Speaker 7: All good. Yeah, it can be distracting, especially it's like
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: we can even overlay them here on the side, and
• 8:54
  Speaker 7: it's like that's a little too much. But we love restream.
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: I mean, it's it's kind cool.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it was great having you guys on and uh,
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: oh you're asking me how I got into podcasting and
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: how I got into it. So, uh, basically I thought
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: there was a conspiracy, and I thought we can all agree. Look,
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Alan Dulles all these things, you know, I mean all
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: the some of the things that I still probably think
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: is there's the case today, But I was like certain
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: about it. I was like, this is there's no there's
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: no there's absolute clarity, you know, and every single thing
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: that that's in the movie or that's in the Minho
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: kill Kennedy, I believed all of it. I thought that
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: was all at all, like concrete fact. And so anyway,
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: so I went to Facebook to try to like Marshal
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: the troops, like let's like, you know, it's what are
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: we gonna do? How are we gonna get like truth
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: and reconciliation? And and the answer was I came across
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: people who believe, you know, first of all, it's their
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: hobby to believe that it's a It was Oswald alone
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: that was like, oh, this like this is your like
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: niche right on. And then and then also uh, they
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: they a lot of times had arguments that I'd never
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: heard before, and I was like whoa so and I
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: and actually sometimes I ended they were like right about
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: some things, right, not everything, but but the point is
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: there are counterpoints to everything, and and so what I
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: wanted to do is have a platform where you give
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: both arguments on each individual issue at the same time.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Like for season one, I was real good at sticking
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: to it. I even have like a scorecard where it's like,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: on this issue, they argue this, and they argue this,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: here's the open questions whatever. But so yeah, I just
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: wanted to compare what everybody was arguing and then eventually
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: try to figure out what happened, right, but then give
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: everyone a reference of Look here all the arguments and
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: one thing that's hard about that. So I'm trying to
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: be objective, right, But the challenge is once you know something,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: you can't unknow it right. So so I can't once
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I've made and you know, unlike like, for example, Jeff
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Crudell's show and just a friend of mine, Jeff's great,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: but on his I think he leaves it intentionally open
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: to the listener, like he's not trying to really push
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: one way or the other. On my show, I'm kind
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: of like, look, here's what I think you know so so,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: but I try to and I try to not commit
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: if I don't know for sure, but but you know,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: we I determined that there had to be a shot
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: from the front and and that Oswald was not likely
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: on the sixth floor, and those two things once you
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: once you make that determination, you go, you know, it
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: doesn't that's put to bed. Now you're on other topics, right, So,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: so anyway, it's it's tough. It's like, I'm the most
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: objective guy there is. That's why I wrote a book
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: called Chokeholds that inescapably proved conspiracy.
• 11:41
  Speaker 7: You know, yeah, yeah, after you after you do that, yeah,
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: the gig.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Is up, man, you know, the gig is up.
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: Indeed, Yes, yeah, yeah, that's okay because you know, you've
• 11:53
  Speaker 7: got to stay honest to yourself or else you come
• 11:56
  Speaker 7: off as disingenuine. And as long as you have a
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: good a good heart, a good mind, you're a genuine person.
• 12:05
  Speaker 7: It comes across. And not all podcasts are like that,
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: believe me, or internet radio shows, whatever you want to
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: call them. You know, people can hear your passion about
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: the subject and know you're not mailing it in. So
• 12:21
  Speaker 7: so Season one was roughly like laying the groundwork. Basically,
• 12:25
  Speaker 7: looking at season.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: One was like the core disputed facts in Dallas, right
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: and empathized though with the medical evidence, but it's not
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: it's not asking who did it, it's the season one
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: was just did the warning report get it right? That
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: it was Oswald alone? That was the core question for
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: season one. We also went deep on tipp It, which
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: is related.
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah, two giant rabbit holes. Is the medical evidence and
• 12:51
  Speaker 7: the Tippet shooting. Oh Man, Yeah, everything the medical evidence alone,
• 12:57
  Speaker 7: I hate because there's just so much he say, she say,
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: the documents say, doctor say. It's just it's hard to
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: ever have everyone agree on exactly what happened with the
• 13:15
  Speaker 7: medical side of you know, the the parklaing and the
• 13:18
  Speaker 7: Bethesda side of things. You know, and despite even having
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: you know, eye witness testimony. I mean, I interviewed Dennis
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: David like ten years ago, and he was supposedly a
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: Bethesda I'm not supposedly he was at Bethesda. He supposedly
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: saw some things going on, you know, two caskets and
• 13:38
  Speaker 7: all this other stuff, and you know, you eat, you
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: meet somebody in real life and you hear these stories
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: and it's like holy crap, you know, like is this
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: did this really happen, you know, and then you know,
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: my eyes start to glaze over when you know we're
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: talking every the medical evidence and this that and the
• 13:58
  Speaker 7: other thing, and uh, Mexico City's another one.
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 14:04
  Speaker 7: There's just so many deep, deep, obvious potholes that you
• 14:08
  Speaker 7: can step in, and even if you spend a couple
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: of years looking into this stuff, you can come out
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: of it and still not know nothing.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: You know, yes, yes, definitely, yeah, yeah, it can. It's
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: a lot. And I mean the typic case typic case
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: is a tough one because there are so many witnesses
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: who identified Oswald, you know, and contradict each other. Yeah,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: and contradict each other. And he's wearing like six different
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: color jackets. You know. Uh, that's a tough but that
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: that's that was the one that got me on the like,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know, John Armstrong, let's let's let me go
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: ahead and watch you, uh you give your presentation for
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: the eleventh time, because nobody else has given me account
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: like a plausible argument of how it couldn't be Oswald
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: if it wasn't someone who kind of looked like him,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: except for you know, you get the chubby guy running
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: that you know, you got obviously, what what's the lady
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: that Mark Lane talked to and then she disappeared? Philla Clemens,
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: you got her talking about the people down the street.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: But anyway, whatever, the typic case is a mess. And
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: but Carl Mather is the other thing on the typic
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: case that I'm just like, I don't know, that's not normal.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: There's something happening with Carl Mather. Like I can't tell
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: you what it is, but like, like you know, it's
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: like if you you try a dish, you're like this,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: maybe this is horrible, But I couldn't tell you that
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Nutmeg was the culprit. But it's something that shouldn't be
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: in there, you know what I mean.
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's supposedly coming from a credible source, a guy
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: who later went on to be mayor of Dallas. You know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 7: it's like you want to believe these people, but it's like, damn,
• 15:36
  Speaker 7: you know, how can this be true? How can how
• 15:39
  Speaker 7: can you see this? How can you know what? And
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: what does it mean? You know that that's the other thing,
• 15:45
  Speaker 7: you know you can Okay, well, if this is true,
• 15:48
  Speaker 7: what does it mean? Where does it go from here?
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: When you like, even with the Carl Mather thing. Okay,
• 15:52
  Speaker 7: you say, work with Colins Radio is one of the
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: tip it's neighbors. So what what's an auswall look like?
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: New is sitting in his car? I don't you know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 7: Like what's it means? I don't know. But there's so
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: many there's so many of these Oswald sightings and and
• 16:10
  Speaker 7: and I will admit, you know, I've read John Armstrong's book,
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: I've done the Deep Dive Harvey and Lee, and it's
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: a fascinating theory. And it's even more fascinating to go
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: back and dig through the Baylor archives and see his
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: early correspondence with people like Jim Mars and Jack White
• 16:29
  Speaker 7: where they're trying to where you see the theory get born,
• 16:34
  Speaker 7: you know, as as they're trying to discuss these things
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: back and forth and trying to make sense of all
• 16:40
  Speaker 7: these anomalies that you're finding. And you know, I'll give
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: it to him, man. He went down a lot of
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: rabbit holes and interviewed a lot of crazy people that
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: have never been you know, interviewed before ever. And is
• 16:58
  Speaker 7: it odd? Hell yeah, I mean it's it's it's so odd.
• 17:01
  Speaker 7: How can this guy be in two places? It wants
• 17:04
  Speaker 7: two schools at once, two places in the Marines at once.
• 17:08
  Speaker 7: You know, it's just like, how do you how do.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: You explain that not to mention the fall of nineteen
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: sixty three when he starts to really ramp up more.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, I definitely don't, you know. I think I
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: talk about in season two, how there were at least
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: twenty seven Oswald Oswald's sightings where we know that he
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: was somewhere else. But I don't necessarily believe that all
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: of those are a an Oswald impression. I mean, something
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: could be someone. There could be some simple coincidences and
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: mistakes in there, like all day long, but not twenty seven.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: That's that's an I'm like, it's just a numbers game.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: And that's where like when I talk to Fred Litwin
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: talked to it when we you know, we debated on
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Sean Attwood, that was That's the thing I keep coming
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: back to. It's like, man, how many how many things
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: there need to be? I don't know, it's you know,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: that's where people have different you know, coincidence thresholds. That's
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: my word I'm going with.
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I realized most of the Oswald Ruby
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: sightings together was probably Larry Crayford. I mean, the dude
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: was a young guy, kind of looked like Oswald.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was like twelve of them, and I think
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: I think those are I pulled those out, so that's
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: the twenty seven plus those twelve.
• 18:22
  Speaker 7: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I mean, but something like that doesn't
• 18:27
  Speaker 7: account for like the downtown Lincoln Mercury thing or you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: something like something weird like that, or the you know
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: where he's buying Pico brittle at the Jiffy Jiffy mark
• 18:39
  Speaker 7: that morning's to be at work, like, you can't unless
• 18:44
  Speaker 7: this guy is carrying around blatantly Lee Harvey Oswald identification,
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: which he may have been. I don't know, you know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: just you're you got to really stretch the conspiracy net too,
• 18:57
  Speaker 7: all right. Ruby's involved. He's making this guy part to
• 19:00
  Speaker 7: be Lee Harvey Oswald and do these things. You know,
• 19:05
  Speaker 7: why is Craiford doing it? Why would Ruby be making
• 19:08
  Speaker 7: this guy do it? If he's doing it, there's just
• 19:10
  Speaker 7: all kinds of mysterious things there with this CRAF guy.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: I think I feel like on the Ruby ones because
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: somebody I I don't know if it was you or
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: someone else, but someone told me that and I went
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: back and looked at it again, and I feel like
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: for most of the ones where it's Oswald and Ruby together,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: there are now there are a couple where it's like
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: he's doing the whole thing, where he's listing his characteristics
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: of what makes him Oswald. But for a lot of them,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: the whole thing is just he was there with Ruby,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: and someone said that he kind of looked like Oswald.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: So for those I'm willing to throw that's nothing. That's
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: that's a nothing burger.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you about this, what do you think
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: about Robert mchune or mccow When I've heard it pronounce it,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's McCune. Is what the HSCA said on
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: the tape. Do you think that? I mean, how we
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: think the deal is with that story?
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: That to me smells like a set up all day long.
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: You have somebody named Somebody identifying themselves or looking like
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: uh and looking like Lee Harvey Oswald going to Castro's
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: personal gun runner, right, you know what I mean? And
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: and and offering to our trying to buy rifles for
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: an exorbitant amount of.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Money, four rifles like ten thousand dollars.
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean that that to me, screams set up,
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: because a how would Lee Harvey Oswald get to where
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: mccount was. It wasn't like he was like across, you know,
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: across the town. It was it was.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Houston, right, yes, Galveston, Galveston, Okay, Allison's there, according to
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: George Straight.
• 20:48
  Speaker 7: Yes, I mean that's you can't. You can't, I mean
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: it's And then supposedly Jack Ruby had had some ties
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: to mccount. Leslie went and visit him, asked for a
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: letter from Castro or something, told me he was gonna
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: pay him like twelve thousand dollars for something. But that
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: to me, I don't know. The only the only way
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: I can quantified is that smells like a setup to me, right.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Right, and yes, what to set up cash and cubas right.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: That that would make That would probably makes more sense
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: than for example, uh like like why you would do that.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: That's it's obvious, and it's also a little bit less
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: risky at the exact time because that was that was
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: in like September, I think that was before Oswald had
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: this job. So it was like the risk of saying
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: that there's two Oswald's it's it. I mean, I suppose
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: and I don't remember the deal. Oswald's supposed to be
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: somewhere else, but we don't. He wasn't at the school
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: book depository, so that that was a little bit looser.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: What about Ralph Yates I recently did I did a
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: did a revisit show on that.
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: Cocaps or is he genuine?
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 22:08
  Speaker 7: If you take him in his word, it can't be Oswald?
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: Right right? Could it have been somebody identifying themselves as Oswald? Sure?
• 22:22
  Speaker 7: But again I mean it was was the guy Cuckoo?
• 22:26
  Speaker 7: I mean they did lock him up, yeah, I mean
• 22:28
  Speaker 7: the looney bin, didn't he?
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: He he had forty shock treatments and he never changed
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: his story. So okay, well here here's the The whole
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: article has been written about how I'm a you know,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: crank for pushing the Raffaete story. Unfortunately for me, my
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Rafayette story is like how I start the podcast, It's
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: like my first So that was one.
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: Of the big questions for the Warrant Commission. They had,
• 22:52
  Speaker 7: like I think it was six or seven major things
• 22:56
  Speaker 7: that they were that they were looking into, and that
• 22:58
  Speaker 7: was one of them.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: M uh So, so here here's where it comes down to.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: On Yates and just super quick for the benefit of
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: people who may not know what I'm talking about here,
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: which probably is very few people in this audience. But
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Ralph Yates was a refrigerated repairman who picked up He
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: says he picked up a hitchhiker on either the Wednesday
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: or Thursday, he wasn't sure before the assassination, and that
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: he picked this guy up at the intersection of basically
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I thirty five and Beckley, which is about a mile
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: south of Oswald's rooming house. It doesn't matter because Oswald's
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: at work. We know that, so that's just a sidebar.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: But uh, anyway, Yates says he picks this guy up
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: and and he wants to ride downtown, specifically to the
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: intersection of Houston and Maine, basically right you know, Dealey Plaza,
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: or it might have been Houston and Elm like even
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: closer there to the corner. And and and he and
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: he had a large package that that he said had
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: curtain rods on it. And he talked about whether you
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: could shoot the president from a tall building. And he
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: talked about and he asked if the guy had heard
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: of Jack of Jack Ruby. Okay, so, okay, enough to
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: be weird for knowledge if it's true. But here here's
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: the thing. The biggest arguments against me, it's why Matt
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Crumpton's a fraud, is that no one corroborated Yates' actual
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: location where he was supposed to be that day. So
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: he was supposed to be in Arlington and Irving according
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: to his boss. But he says he was an oak
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: cliff picking up a check from this other company. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: then they interviewed the employees from the other company. There's
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: no check. There's no check from that company to Yates's company,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: and both the employees say no, this guy didn't come
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: in on either Wednesday or Thursday, so it's you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: there's no proof there. So there's no proof for Yates.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: He does say crazy stuff. There's this there's this report
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: where he's like, I was born an America boy and
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: then God decided that he was going to kill the president,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: and I would pick up the hitchhiker who was the
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: killer right before it, and then and then God would
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: It was just it was crazy. You should read it.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: It's nuts. So, okay, doesn't look good. Looks like Yates
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: is just making this thing up. But here's the thing.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: And this is why I'm not recanting anything. I'm just
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: but I do think it's I didn't mention this counterpoint,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: and it's worth it. And and it takes me from
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: seventy five percent on the yighth story to fifty point
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: zero zero one percent on the eighth story. Okay, And
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: it's this. So the point out fourty Eates is that
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: he didn't fail any polygraphs. First of all, uh, they
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: said some of them they were inconclusive. Okay. But the
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: main point is Yates told Dempsey Jones is coworker, that
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: he had, you know about the hitchhiker, and then Dempsey
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Jones confirmed that to the FBI. Now the counter counter counterpoint.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Before before the assassination.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Before the assassination told him about the hitchhiker. Yes, Now
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: the thing is, and I didn't mention this either, So
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: I cleaned all this up. It's in my it's in
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: this mail bag episode.
• 26:11
  Speaker 7: I did.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: But basically, the the counterpoint to that then is that, uh, sorry,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: I'm so deep down this Ralph Yates rabbit hole. Uh
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: let's see. Oh, the Yates came went to the FBI
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: and he tried to recant his whole story, and he says, Actually,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: what happened is Dempsey Jones and I were talking about
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: shooting whether or not you could shoot someone from a
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: tall building, and the hitchhiker that I picked up talked
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: about shooting someone from a tall building too, and that's
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: what I told Dempsey Jones. It's like, well, hang on,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: you're still saying that you told Dempsey Jones that a
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: hitchhiker would you know, or that the hitchhiker talked about
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: shooting from a tall building, and that you picked up
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: a hitchhiker. Like so it didn't So he didn't recant
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: his story that much, Okay, and Dempsey Jones like, you
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: would have to say that Dempsey Jones is lying.
• 27:04
  Speaker 7: Now.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: The main argument people make that on the other side
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: is well, you know you just obviously you know, Yates
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: was confusing the conversation he had with Dempsey Jones with
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: this conversation with the hitchhiker. Okay, but it's still the
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: hitchhiker and Dempsey Jones still said it. But Yates is
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: definitely crazy and there's not any documentary support for him,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: So have a good time figuring out what happened. I'm
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: sticking with Yates. Fifty point zero zero one.
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: Here you go.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I kind of land on that too, like
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: fifty to fifty and like I do on many of
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: these contradicting events.
• 27:43
  Speaker 7: Or I'll just commit already, go off the damn fence.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I respect it. It's so hard for
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: people like us to make definitive statements. I mean what
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I get all the time when I talk to people
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: that say, well, who killed? Yeah, K I go, It's
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: like it's a simple question. It's not a simple answer, enigma.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Wrapped in a riddle.
• 28:06
  Speaker 7: Man, you didn't, but yeah, that that's that's the easy answer.
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: You know, answers who did you know? Then that gets
• 28:19
  Speaker 7: a little more difficult.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: Whatever suspect you know, sorry, I spoke over you. What
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: you said?
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: I said, you just have to narrow your suspects down,
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: you know, you have to. You have to do your
• 28:31
  Speaker 7: due diligence and and either rule them in or rule
• 28:35
  Speaker 7: them out, you know what I mean. Yeah, definitely, and
• 28:38
  Speaker 7: you get smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: You know, Yes, we can get off the stock a fence.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: That's good. That's good.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's what you're your Season three of Solving
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: JFK is kind of exploring right your your I believe
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: two episodes in right now, the first tour of the
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Secret Service. I think there's going to be a third,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and there's gonna be six Service ones.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah sorry, oh wow, I just I just because I
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: just couldn't cover everything. There's too much crap. Uh. And
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: then there's gonna be a recap in rebuttal Evince palmorrow
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: that I'm actually recording tomorrow.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, I was actually gonna ask before I
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: get into uh uh, you know, because you're gonna explore
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different factions.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I'm looking at everybody, everybody anyone's ever said killed JFK.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: We're gonna we're gonna cover James Files. Get in here,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: let's go. We'll talk about everybody. Like I just think that,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: you know, you should talk about everything. I'm gonna talk
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: about Israel.
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: I'm not like you.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: You should talk about everything.
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: Oh I got a great guess suggestion for you. Go ahead,
• 29:55
  Speaker 7: you should have Corey Hughes on your show.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Oh man, I don't want to start f I want
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: to be nice to everybody.
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: Hey, that guy is an asshole and deserves everything he's
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: got coming to him. He has talked so much trash
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: about JFK researchers, which includes you and me and Joe
• 30:16
  Speaker 7: and everybody in the chat. Yeah, I couldn't believe he
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: was on that panel the other night. But anyway, it's
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: a whole different story.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, the Israel thing is having a moment, so
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to studying it. And and I
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: think that that you can argue motive all day long.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: I just don't see how the question is like, what
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: is the argument precisely that their exact role was. And
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: I know there is one, and I know a lot
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: of people feel strongly about it and present the arguments
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: and the counterpoints.
• 30:48
  Speaker 7: You know, Yeah, I mean that Israel's you know, even
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: still today it's a hot topic.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: He trashed me by name that because that could change
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: my view. I'll love to go, help to go. Listen,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: he's trying to be nice until until a swing is thrown,
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: and then there's a short range when it's self defense
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: and after that.
• 31:06
  Speaker 7: He hasn't reached out to you and asked to come
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: on your show and explain his theory yet.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, look and again, dude, I'll be cool with anybody.
• 31:13
  Speaker 7: I just want.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: I do want. I'm not trying to battle people other
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: than on points and I'm not trying to like go
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: personally anybody. But but he he, I think, you know,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: said I was wrong about something, and I was like, cool,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: what's the count? What's what am I wrong about specifically?
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: And and where you're getting that? And he sent me
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: like a link to six hour video and then he
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: got mad at me because I did. I told him
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: I have six hours, Like, hey, can you just tell
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: me like in a couple of tweets and you know,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: it's whatever, man, I understand, so we'll get a doubt
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: in It's it's all good. PE's love and respect everybody.
• 31:54
  Speaker 7: I mean, you know, there there may be something there
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: regarding the whole Demona thing and you know the new
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah Angleton, you know, and but again, you know, you
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: hear these things about the massade being behind everything and
• 32:13
  Speaker 7: this and that, but there's no unfortunate thing is it's
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: really hard to prove that.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: Well, I for one, live in Columbus, Ohio and Les
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Wesner's backyard, and I can tell you I don't even
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: think there is a massad.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: We're good, Yeah, And that is a reference for people
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: that are familiar with the current events. I'm not going
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: to get into that, but he has quite an estate
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: there in Ohio.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Huh yeah, yeah, it's uh I'll tell you some stories
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: uh later, I have some interesting tales. Just kidding. I
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: don't have any people who are AI algorithm owned by
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: that's monitoring this. That was a joke.
• 32:56
  Speaker 7: Sorry, yeah.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm kind of like, on a JFK records note,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of frustrated that the Epstein files are kind
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: of taking over the conversation on the JFK assassination files
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: because I think what you said in I think it
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: was the other Bonus episode with Andrew Eiler. Yeah, this
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: task force is way too broad, Yes, and it seems
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: like it's just being done for political purposes. And I
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: kind of lose faith every day we go by here,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: and I just don't know what to make of it, man.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: But it seems like there's a lot of focus on
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: that instead of the jf KA files, which Anna Pauline
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Luna said it was going to be the first order
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: of business.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, well, and the other thing on the
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Epstein files is they've already been released, like it's al.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Right, right, it's already there if you want to know,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: like who's on the flight log and about right, it's
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: all there.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: What they haven't released are documents held by the court
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: related to the prosecution against him. There there are some
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: There are some documents and some investigatory reports that they have.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: But but that's why we really talks about the client
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: list that's out. That's the you can that you can
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: go to and it's you know, RKS on it, Like yeah,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: he admitted, I'm not trying to so.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: No, but a lot of powerful people were caught up.
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: Trump's on the plight list, you know.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: But I don't think Trump ever met Epstein.
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: Being photographed together.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Just kid, that was that was a decade. We're good,
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: everything's fine, yea.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you're you're season three. In addition to the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Secret Service, which you didn't know it was going to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: be six episodes, you're going to also be exploring I'll
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: be j Jay Edgar Hoover, which is kind to be
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: ah connected, Texas oil men, the Soviet Union, Cuba is real.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Of course, we just talked about Cuban exiles, mafia, c
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: i A, and the military generals.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's gonna be along my poor producer friend Jerry,
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: my engineer's Uh, it's gonna be a long season. But
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: but but hey, real quick back to the to the records. Uh.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what's gonna happen with the
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Congressional Committee. Anything's better than nothing. What I think would
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: be great is if we could and and we're Andrews
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: in touch with with the committee, Okay, And like when
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: I say in touch, I don't mean like sadly emailing
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: desperately like they respond, it's fine. Uh, and and but
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: what needs to happen is we need to take this
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: list of uh final determination forms that Andrews found for
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: for documents that already have been ordered to be declassified,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: cross reference to them about you know, So you take here,
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: here's all the forms we have ordering these documents out.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Here are the ones that are released, Here the ones
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: that are not released. You just cross reference riff numbers,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: and you file a rid of man damus. We can
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: file a lawsuit or Congress can can do it, you know,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Congress can can push for it. And Congress can also declassify.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: I think there are some Congressional records that are held
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: by the National Archives. So and then another just another
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: side point. So and then so one avenue is the
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Congress Avenue. One lane is the Trump Lane.
• 36:35
  Speaker 7: Uh, and you know, we'll we'll see.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: What happens there. And then and then the other thing
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: that we have going on this twenty four hundred FBI
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: files FBI documents that were found. And what that really
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: should underline for everybody the fact that they found twenty
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: four hundred new FBI files that the National Archives did
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: not have, is that this whole conversation about the JFK
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: records is only related to the records that were actually
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: turned over to the ARRB. So we got twenty four hundred.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: What do you think the FBI wins are about? You know,
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: my fear is that these documents are going to say
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Oswald was a Soviet Oh he was. It's just going
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: to be more of the Soviet Cuba type stuff. But
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: you know, we'll see what happens. I mean, I like
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: that there's action and there's things going on. I wanted
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: with the whole judgment before I talked trash about any
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: of the politicians who are in a position to do
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: something's but you know, chip chop baby, let's go.
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: I think you know, we we got the same model
• 37:36
  Speaker 7: as you. You know, something is better than nothing, which
• 37:38
  Speaker 7: is what we got before, right, and just give him
• 37:41
  Speaker 7: a little time. You know, there's a lot of moving pieces,
• 37:45
  Speaker 7: there's a lot of things going on that Trump's trying
• 37:48
  Speaker 7: to do, and just give him a little time. Transforce
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: hoty one AKA and apology.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: He's a big lunatic, right and Matt.
• 38:01
  Speaker 7: Yeah, well.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh, yes, I look, I'm for it. I
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: think I think they'll you know, I'm open minded and
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: uh and I hope it goes well. How about that?
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And to your point, I was that panel we
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: were just talking about a couple of minutes ago with
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Larry jeff and Cork Hughes.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Jefferson Morley stated on it about an how we're in
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I think that the FBI has all these records digitized
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: already and said to the archives.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: What was it, Palela you're talking about?
• 38:44
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Uh, Rob, I don't know how to explain it exactly
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: it was.
• 38:51
  Speaker 7: It was a show on the Forbidden Knowledge Network, which
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: is Corey Hughes' home podcast network, right, but it wasn't
• 38:58
  Speaker 7: his show. It was another right, there was the guy
• 39:02
  Speaker 7: that host macro Aggressions is Charlie. I don't know what
• 39:04
  Speaker 7: his last name is. I don't know if you've ever
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: ever heard that show or not, but he's responsible. They're
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: they're behind the jfk X documentary, that piece of crap,
• 39:15
  Speaker 7: you know where they said that, you know, they were
• 39:17
  Speaker 7: using squibs and the limo and JFK Really Lived and
• 39:20
  Speaker 7: all this other nonsense and horseshit. And so this is
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: the show they were on. But here's the panel. You're
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: gonna love this. So you got Corey Hughes, Charlie what
• 39:31
  Speaker 7: whatever the hell his name is, Larry Hancock, Jefferson, Morley,
• 39:37
  Speaker 7: Chuck o'chelly, Don, Jefferies, and some other guy I've never
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: heard of before.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, interesting, Yeah, that's the different. I mean Jefferson, Morley
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: and and and Larry Hancock on one side.
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: Uh, Jefferies and Hughes on the other.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so that that would be interesting. I mean,
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: I I've I'm friends with Larry and jeff and so
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: I think they do good work. And you know, I
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: don't I don't have a ton of disagreements with them,
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: but uh, you know, I know you guys have been
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: and there's all these uh you know, pre existing you know,
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: beefs and things that have happened that I'm not I'm
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: not hip too, so I'm you know, I'm the guy
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: that just comes in into prison and I'm like, I'm
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: gonna be nice and friends with all the groups.
• 40:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah, stick stick around long enough, buddy, me too, Matt.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: It's it's funny because I came into this community like
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: two years ago, right, and and and Rob's obviously been
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in this for a decade a little more or more,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: but podcasting, and he has all these uh, you know,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: thoughts of all these other people, and I'm kind of
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: like you, I'm just like, I don't know whatever, Like
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: people are people that their their thoughts. So it's it's
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: very interesting that we have the dynamic because I'm always
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: kind of navigating. But who does Rob like, does he
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: not like a rock? Has he had previous beef with
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: him in the past, And like, I'm coming in this
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: like very fresh, And that's pretty funny. But Morley said
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: that in that panel that the FBI had these documents
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: digitized and sent to the archives and that it was
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: now in the archives hands, so we know how the
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: archivist was fired. And number two and three so interesting,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: interesting to see how that's gonna kind of come out,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: because in theory, if they're digitized already, and we know
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: the Archives had their issues with not being fully funded
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: and being able to digitize everything. I think you know
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: a single digit percentage of the JFK records are actually digitized,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and so what would it take to get that released?
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: You would think with you know, people have said cash
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Ba Towel is going to be someone for a transparency,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: So like, what's going to happen with that? Everything is
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: so wide open right now, so through what point we
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: just we have to sit and wait. And we've talked
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: about this a lot, like what's the alternative? There is
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: an alternative?
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: Well, going to take what we get? Yes, look and
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: it's great. Look man, I'm happier with something happening then
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: nothing happening, just like we said. But to answer your
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: question and what we can do, these twenty four hundred
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: FBI documents, they're going to the National Archives, so they
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: weren't turned over they should have been turned over, So
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: now they have to be treated as if they were
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: turned over at that time, and that means they need
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: to each one needs to have a TPS report and
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: a cover sheet okay, with a with identifying the reason
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: why either do classify each document or they have to
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: identify why it's a continuing threat and articulate that and
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: then say what is related to approximately? And but you
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: know the thing is they're not even following that for
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: the documents now. Identification is so that's it's it's a
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: real problem. And uh, and they they could they could
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: force it, and we can force it with a lawsuit.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: The answer is litigation. And I know they had one before.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: You know, I'll defer to.
• 43:22
  Speaker 7: Or something. He already filed a lawsuit like the day
• 43:28
  Speaker 7: the day after Trump did the executive order Judicial Watch, right, Yeah,
• 43:34
  Speaker 7: that's it.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, so so so he could get it too. He
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: could get it with this because I think he did
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: do a mandamus action. Yeah, and and and and that's
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: the key, because you just have to you have to go, hey,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: there's a statute that points to what this government official
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: is supposed to do. Hey, they're not doing it. Look
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: here's evidence they're not doing it. Do it. And if
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: they don't do it, they can be held in contempt
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: of court and go to jail.
• 43:57
  Speaker 7: Yep, and not pass go not click two hundred bucks
• 44:02
  Speaker 7: either that's right.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: Hey, quick question, if I could, if I could just
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: throw it out there to you, because this is one
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of like the Ralph Yates thing. So in
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: covering Secret Service, I've just come back to the Abraham
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Bolden Chicago plot, and I for the you know, really,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: when I study it enough to do a show on it,
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: and I'm doing a citation for every single cent, not
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: every sentence, but every proposition of fact, that's when I
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: get down into it, I'm like, cool, So where's the document? Cool,
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: where's the f where's the report? And then it just
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: never shows up. And now Bolden was certainly framed though
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: he was framed with this guy named Spagnoli and uh
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: and he Spagnoli admitted that he made the whole thing
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: up and the prosecutor told him to make it up.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: So so in that way, Bolden is you know, you know,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: sort of proven to be credible. And then he's also
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: on the record talking to h Rowley when when he
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: goes to Washington, uh in November before the assassination.
• 45:09
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: And we don't know what he talked about necessarily, but
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: it was after that that uh that you know, it
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: was right after Bolden literally The day after, Bolden UH
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: called Jay Lee Rankin from a White House phone. He
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: was at the White House for a Secret Service training
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: and he wanted to tell the Warren Commission about what
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: happened on November second, the Chicago plot, and UH. The
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: next day he was called home to to he was
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: called home to Chicago and arrested for for you know,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: attempting to UH to sell a government report to UH
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: to a defendant. So so, anyway, I this is the
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: whole Thomas Valley case. And then we do have evidence
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: of Thomas Valley. So the whole the whole point is
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: there's supposed to be four h assassins I think like
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: three of yeah, and this lady has a that this
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: lady UH calls the cops and says that they have
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: rifles and UH and then this one secret Service agent
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: is is taking them out and the arrests two of them,
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: and Bolden sees them at the station and excuse me,
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: Special Agent Charge Martineau, who's uh, you know, the main
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: guy in charge in Chicago, you know, does a side
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: number and a side file and has everybody turned it
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: in and there's only a few people working on it.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: And Bolden wasn't even working on it himself. He just
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: overheard it. So I actually I do think Bolden, I
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: feel like he's telling the truth because just because of
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: his whole like the texture of the whole story. But man,
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: not having any documents and not having any other witnesses. Uh,
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: I just think, like as critical researchers, as people who
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: are going, you know, we don't think that the warrant
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: report got it right. We don't think what the corporate
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: press tells us is correct. Uh, it's probably good to
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: get the disclaimer, you know, like, hey, there's no reports here.
• 47:07
  Speaker 7: But operation what's that he does have corroboration? What is
• 47:12
  Speaker 7: it from Judy Baker?
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, does she tell me about that?
• 47:18
  Speaker 7: Well? She says that she knows that the Lee called
• 47:21
  Speaker 7: the FBI and warned them about.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: The plot, because because the informost name was Lee.
• 47:27
  Speaker 7: Yes, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, here's the way I see Bolden. Okay, please, yeah,
• 47:40
  Speaker 7: you have to remember the time, man, like, you know,
• 47:45
  Speaker 7: the civil rights thing hasn't hadn't really been pushed through yet,
• 47:50
  Speaker 7: and there was probably a lot of racism rampant in
• 47:55
  Speaker 7: the FBI, especially white guys who saw a black guy,
• 48:01
  Speaker 7: you know, taking a white guy's job, you know. So
• 48:05
  Speaker 7: the whole part of you know, setting him up to
• 48:08
  Speaker 7: like get him out of there doesn't surprise me. And
• 48:12
  Speaker 7: it doesn't necessarily have to be conspiracy or assassination related,
• 48:16
  Speaker 7: you see what I'm saying. And you know, to his
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: you know, credit or detriment, I don't know which. You know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 7: he may have at the time. You know, you have
• 48:33
  Speaker 7: all the shit going on, So maybe use that to
• 48:37
  Speaker 7: use that to his advantage to either get out of
• 48:40
  Speaker 7: it or get reinstated or whatever the case may be.
• 48:43
  Speaker 7: Who knows. But again, like you said, the problem with
• 48:46
  Speaker 7: Bolden's story is that we don't have that document. There's
• 48:50
  Speaker 7: nothing to back up what he says. And by all means,
• 48:54
  Speaker 7: I mean, he seems like a nice guy. You know,
• 48:58
  Speaker 7: he's he's been a Facebook friend for god fifteen years
• 49:02
  Speaker 7: probably and uh, you know, religious guy. I got no
• 49:06
  Speaker 7: reason to think he'd lied about anything. But you know,
• 49:11
  Speaker 7: without without that other stuff to support him, like you said, man,
• 49:15
  Speaker 7: it's it's you know, it's a toss up, like you
• 49:19
  Speaker 7: can't I wouldn't put money on it, you know what
• 49:20
  Speaker 7: I'm saying.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Fifty point zero one percent.
• 49:24
  Speaker 8: Forty nine point ninety nine yeah, yeah, yeah, So so
• 49:29
  Speaker 8: I don't know, I mean, and I know, I know
• 49:31
  Speaker 8: my guy, uh, Paul Blow is gonna you know, not
• 49:34
  Speaker 8: like that.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not certain about this, but I just, uh, it
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: was really surprising to me that there were no documents
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: and no witnesses. That's all. That's all I'm saying. So
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: and I'm I'm still again, I'm I'm with, I'm with
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna go fifty one percent with Bolden.
• 49:50
  Speaker 7: So yeah, Now the other part was being this, you know,
• 49:56
  Speaker 7: lone nut former marine whatever, you know, rifles, tall building,
• 50:04
  Speaker 7: you know, he worked along the motorcade route type of thing.
• 50:06
  Speaker 7: It's just that is suspect as hell. Take holds out
• 50:10
  Speaker 7: of it, you know what I mean.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: Well, and then what what Douglass pointed out, which is
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: that the cops were trailed or the cops for trailing
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Valley for twenty four hours and they actually arrest him
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: five minutes after Pierre Salinger, the Press secretary, makes makes
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: the public statement that the President's not coming to Chicago.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: So his his theory is, well, they found out right before,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: and they and they arrested him because they didn't need
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: to have him free to kill the president. Or so
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: they could frame for killing the president. The president doesn't
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: show up right, so, but but yeah, I don't know
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: that in the context of the Secret Service, I just
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: felt like I needed to throw When you cover the
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Secret Service, you got to kind of throw that one
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: in there.
• 51:01
  Speaker 7: There's a couple of things you got to throw in there,
• 51:03
  Speaker 7: you know, whether it be the Hickey story, I got
• 51:08
  Speaker 7: it at it, the Abraham Bolden story, the you know
• 51:12
  Speaker 7: they were out drinking, you know, did the driver shoot him?
• 51:16
  Speaker 7: You know, all of that you have to take it
• 51:19
  Speaker 7: onto consideration. And there's a lot there to chew on.
• 51:23
  Speaker 7: Whether they were lax in what they were doing, was
• 51:28
  Speaker 7: it their faulty got shot even though they may not
• 51:31
  Speaker 7: have shot in themselves, you know, can you blame them right?
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: Well, there's I mean to me, and I know I'm
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: looking forward to talking to Palmara about this, but because
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: I know he has a for him. It's Emery Roberts
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: is a suspect as someone who's he'd used suspicious because
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: he pulled a lot and a ripke off of the
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: car at at Lovefield as they were leaving, and he
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: gave the order to all the agents in the follow
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: up car to stand down to freeze. You know, Clint
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: Hill had already taken off, but John ready was not
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: ready turned out.
• 52:10
  Speaker 7: But like his point, you know, I mean, there's only
• 52:12
  Speaker 7: so much room on this goddamn car. You can't have
• 52:14
  Speaker 7: you know, ten monkeys hanging off the side of these cars,
• 52:18
  Speaker 7: you know what I mean. Like the follow up a
• 52:19
  Speaker 7: car was pretty packed as it was already.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And you can't have.
• 52:23
  Speaker 7: Two dudes riding on the back of the presidential limo
• 52:26
  Speaker 7: the whole way, well you have.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, they usually would walk alongside and then they
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: would stand up there when it was you know what
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: I mean. But but but here's the thing. They were
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: only on for fifty percent of the motorcades, and they
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: were not on for any of the other three motorcids
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: on the Texas trip. So that alone will not get
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: you there. But but here's here's here's the two bonkers ones.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: And back to Lawson, there are two more to loss
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: and dead motorcycle cops. They're supposed to be motorcycle cops
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: either at every corner of the Lemo So four or
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: you could have two if they're alongside, and then you
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: have two in the front and two and behind. That
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: was the protocol. They only had four. Now they had
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: more motorcycles in the motorcade at large. I'm saying, right
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: next to the president, there were only the four behind,
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: and they were behind, they were not alongside. Lawson told
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: the Dallas Motorcycle the head of motorcycle officers, I want
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: to say it was Captain Perdue. Lawrence might have been Stevenson,
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: but one of those two. He told them, you know,
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: your officers are not to ride alongside the vehicle. Then
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: he writes in his November thirtieth report, Lawson, who the
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: same guy who tells the cops don't ride alongside the lemo.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: He writes, the cops rode alongside the lemo, like what
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: the and then and then the other thing is rooftops.
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: Lawson is supposed to It's his job to advance rooftops
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: and to have cops, you know, interview that there were
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: two books written by Secret Service higher ups, one by
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: Bauman who was the head of Secret Service, one by
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: one of the chief inspector I forget his name, but
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: like in nineteen sixty two and sixty three, these books
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: were written and they lay out the protocol, which is
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: like really, you know, it seems like maybe not the
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: best like operational security, but whatever they lay it out.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: And for buildings, they're supposed to be any multi story
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: building is supposed to have either a local local law enforcement,
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: a military presence, or secret service. And they didn't do
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: that at all in Dallas. And Lawson just said he
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: said that he usually did that, but he didn't remember
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: doing it. And you know what I forgot. You know,
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: I can't say for sure that I talked about rooftops.
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: And then they asked the cops and they're like they
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: have notes of everything. They're like, no, we didn't say
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: anything to us about rooftops. What so I just you know,
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: And here's here's a fun one. You want to get weird,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: let's get weird Lawson, I'm getting getting speculative okay here,
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: And I'm not even I'm just saying, let's shine a
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: light over here. I'm not even saying it's anything yet.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: But Lawson was army intelligence.
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: Also army intelligence is George Lumpkin, the chief deputy police chief,
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: and he was the one that sealed off the school
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: book Depository building. And who's with Lumpkin? While the school
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: book Depository building is sealed off wit Meyer. I forget
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: the guy's first name, but this Lieutenant Colonel Whitmyer, who's
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: an Army intelligence colonel and Lumpkin's also Army intelligence. Lumpkin
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: invited his superior in Army intelligence to ride in the
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: pilot car just out of his The local deputy police
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: chief invited his buddy, who, yes, he's a lieutenant colonel
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: in the military, but like, you know so, and then
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: we have James Powell to Army intelligence. So I'm not
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: saying it's something or it's nothing. I'm just saying loss
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: in his own and what could his angle possibly be?
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 56:08
  Speaker 7: Yeah, but you gotta you got a big season three
• 56:11
  Speaker 7: ahead of you.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Mante that that you do for sure.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing. I'm not, like, I'm not gonna be
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: able to conclusively go, it's this guy whatever, but I
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: will be able to go, it's not this, it's not this.
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: It's not this. It's not this, it's not this. It
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: could be this, this, this, or this. Like that's that's
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: what I think I'll be able to do.
• 56:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And like the whole career thing is. You see
• 56:40
  Speaker 7: it rearing its ugly head again in the in the
• 56:43
  Speaker 7: Facebook forums and and things like that. You know, all
• 56:47
  Speaker 7: these things are cyclical, Matt.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 56:48
  Speaker 7: They they come and they go, and they come and
• 56:50
  Speaker 7: they go, and they get debunked, and then somebody new
• 56:52
  Speaker 7: comes along and they rediscover something that's been already been debunked,
• 56:56
  Speaker 7: but to them it's new, and it gets thrown out
• 57:00
  Speaker 7: there again and again and again.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Then the Netflix Octopus murderers.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: That's why that came back here.
• 57:08
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: If I didn't the goal for every text I got
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: from a friend that set me the video, did the
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: driver do it? I'd be a millionaire.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: Well, so I just covered that and it's not yet,
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: but I just got done like recording it, and I
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: dove in and I'm like, okay, I'm going to clear
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: my mind. Let me walk into this case with a
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: fresh mind. Pretend I have no thoughts about it. Let's
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: just ster at Greer in slow motion twenty times and
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: watch this a Bruder fell over and over again. And
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: doing that, I was able to successfully get to like
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: the magic eye, you know, the things used to stare
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: at with that cross eyes so they would pop out
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: at you. That was my trick to how I would
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: be able to see the magic high thing, but but
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: it was like that you can see what's going really,
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: So if you just really focused on Greer, it looks
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: like he looks back at Kennedy the first time and
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: the second time he looks back and he goes boom,
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: left hand pow pow, and he brings his left hand
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: bag and it's in right seconds before the head shot. Okay,
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: seconds before, three thirteen moments before, milliseconds before. So that's
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: that's the whole argument. There's not like and this witness
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: said this, and this witness said this, and this woitdness
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: said this, and yahda, yeah, that's the whole argument, Okay,
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Lisa George Hickey. Argument has like three different points that
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: it tries to make right. So so you look at
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: it and and the answer for Bill Greer spoiler alert
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: for people who haven't don't know this, it's, uh, that's
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: Roy Kellerman's head. So it's the gun in his left
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: cream is the shine off his broker And you could
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: tell because remember Greer, either he's stuck, he's not. I
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: don't think you stocked, but he definitely hit the brakes hard, okay,
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: and their bodies are moving forward in tandem, and it's
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: that motion of the head moving forward at the same
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: time that Career's coming back. It looks like he's pulling
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: a gun back, but it's just Kellerman's head. So that's
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: that's what's happening there. And George Hickey, Uh, he's uh
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: that which became famous from a book by a guy
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: named Boner just cold Heart facts Boner Menager, Uh and
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: uh that's his name. And and then there's uh disease.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: That's pretty good man. So uh so, anyway, that was
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: on that was on Netflix for a while. It's they're
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: all on Amazon, you know, so that's that's cool. It's
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: there to go watch. But it became popularized in the
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: documentary and and basically the argument is, first of all,
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: uh oh here here, here's how it got started. It's
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Howard Donahue, the ballistics expert.
• 59:56
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: So he's one of the guys in the CBS test
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: that actually fires the shot, you know, like tries to
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: replicate it the Oswald shots. And then that guy, since
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: it was hard to do, he was like, no, Oswald
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: couldn't have done that because I can barely do it.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: And I'm dope. He's a really good shooter, and and
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: and so so anyway, he at It's around the same
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: time that he got interested in this, the Clark panel
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: got together and you know, they moved the entrance wound
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: up about four and a half inches where they said
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: the rear entrance wound hit. So then he goes, oh,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: that's the entrance wound. That changes everything. And he tried
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: to like draw trajectory of where the bullet would be
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: coming given the new Clark panel revised entrance wound, and
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: he thought, well, it had to be coming from lower
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: than from like under him, and he drew a line
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: and it went straight to George Hickey. And guess what,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: there's a picture of Georgia Hickey holding an AR fifteen. Okay,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: they got that's two fat better than career. So far
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: we have two facts, and then the third fact to
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: support it is ten people smelled a gun smoke near
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: the street. That could have been the grassy knoll too, right,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: you know, that could have been That doesn't necessarily mean anything.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: So the main point is nobody saw Hickey fire a shot.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: So and the whole argument rest on the idea that
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: the warrant report is exactly correct across the board. All good,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: but the headshot was an accident and they have a
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: massive government cover up and they're still withholding documents today
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: because of an accident from a Secret Service agent.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and it's funny. We had a comment from
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Ted Lumley. He says, have you guys debunked the idea
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: this before you said this, Matt, that a Secret Service
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: agent accidentally fired the fatal headshot from the car behind
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: when it lunched forward while he was holding his AR fifteen.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Just curious.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think there are some like the
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: driver did it and George Hickey did it. A great
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: argument if you just want to drive by the case
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: and you don't know anything about anything, and that's the like,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: if you don't know anything at all about the case,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: and that's the first argument you hear and you're really busy,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: you're not that interested in the case, then I could
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: see you falling for this.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you want to ignore firsthand witnesses.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: And yeah, you're just like, well that's too much, that's
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: I don't have that much time.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, uh, I think uh. In your
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: most recent episode on the Secret Service, you pointed out
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: six anomalies uh in terms of the Secret Service in
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: terms of the motorcade procedure and how it related to
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: past mort arcades. And I know you didn't. I know
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: you have one more Secret Service episode left to go.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: But I think the question you're getting out here is
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: complicity or negligence.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, because they're definitely negligent. I mean you can't
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: like they weren't even trying. They didn't have any rooftop
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: security because you like for I like forgot, like what
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: are you talking about, man?
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 7: I mean to do that and going through the middle
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 7: of Dallas is kind of unfeasible, I mean security, Yeah,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 7: I mean going through like Main Street of Dallas. There
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 7: were so many tall buildings it would have been unreasonable
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 7: to think that they could have had they could have
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 7: a checked them all out and be posted somebody up
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 7: and all of them or on top of all of them.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I mean that's just what especially when you consider it
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: was like the third or fourth city in Texas he visited, and.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 7: You hadn't had a presidential assassination and what at that
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 7: point sixty some years or an attempt.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: Or Truman was a success.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that was that was nineteen.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: Nineteen ten or nineteen wait, I remember, I mean I mean,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: so what my respectful calendar to that Triple B would
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: would be that the way that it was done in
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: all the other cities. I hear what you're saying. You
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: could You couldn't. You couldn't perfectly cover everything, every multi
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: story like the guy said in the book, you couldn't
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: do that.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: But to make zero point zero effort at all, and
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: to completely break protocol and to have nothing and to
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: not even have any conversations about it, there's not what
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: we can They could put one person in all of
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Daley Plaza, that could They could put two there. They
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: could they could go every you know, every quarter mile.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: They could do something.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 7: Well, they had they had a president on the street.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 7: It just was on the street. It wasn't on top
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 7: of the buildings.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 7: They did put up Dallas cops and sheriffs all over
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 7: the place.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 7: It's probably their job to watch rooftops, you know, and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 7: the radio and anything suspicious. Yeah, yeah, I mean, well
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 7: it gets me, Matt is like, no heads rolled. I mean,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 7: you just lost a president on your watch and nobody
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 7: gets fired because of it.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: If someone got fired, then that would give the impression
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: that they did something wrong. That was literally a quote
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: from the Warren Report, right, but like after.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 7: The assassination, you know, Jake Hoover.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 7: I did show about this because I found the document
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 7: and I was just like, holy shit. So I found
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 7: this document that that basically went through all of Hoover's
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 7: punishments for his FBI agens that screwed up a lot
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 7: pertains to the assassination and he was you know, demoting people,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 7: moving people around, you know, letting people go. I mean,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 7: it was just a list of of you know, from
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 7: the top down, you know, from from the headquarters to
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 7: you know, these local FBI offices. And it wasn't public
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 7: or anything, but it was it was an internal kind
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 7: of thing, you know. It wasn't made public, It wasn't
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 7: published anywhere. I don't even think the Warrant Commission knew
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 7: about it. It was the document that came out much later,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 7: but it had all of his punishments you know, listed
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 7: in there for all just I mean there was probably
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 7: fifty on that. Yeah, it dropped the ball basically, Well.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: Can we if you don't mind, I'd love to get
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: into Jaeger Hoover a little bit. And the FBI just
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: because so after I go Secret Service, I'm going into
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: Jaegar Hoover. And when I say FBI, I'm really just going.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 7: To Hoover real quick. Joe, Yeah, that's going.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: Jeez oh man, Okay, uh.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 7: So, uh so.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: So anyway, I don't have a ton of material. I have,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: like all the stuff around the Warren Commission on him.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: I have, you know, the stuff that you know, kind
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: of his connection before I look at Marvin Geesling and
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: how he kind of you know, turned off the alarm bells.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: But what's here's my question, what do you do You
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: have any opinions about what Hoover's mindset was when Kennedy
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: was killed. Was he surprised by it? Do you I mean,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: did you think he had for knowledge? Do you think
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: when he saw it he looked around and he realized
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: that there was a conspiracy of some sort and he
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: knew the CIA's doing some stuff because he's always talking
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: about how they're dirty, double dealing and all this stuff.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: Or do you think, I mean, I'm just trying to
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: figure out. Obviously he's complicit in the cover up, you know,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: to an extent, but you could argue that he's doing
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: that because he's trying to avoid World War three, the
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: whole thing that you know LBJ had set out. So
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: I just, yeah, I'm just curious to hear y'all's opinion
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: on what you think Hoover's headspace was like on November
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: twenty second.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 7: Well, I think he summed it up nicely because you know,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 7: him and Lyndon Johnson were friends, neighbors, they knew each
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 7: other well. And you know, prior to Oswald's death, I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 7: think you have the investigation going one direction. You know,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 7: it was tying him to you know, anti Castro or
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 7: pro castro stuff, Cuba, Russia. You know, they were really
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 7: pushing all those angles. And then after he's killed, everything changes,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 7: and you know when Johnson wants to appoint this commission
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 7: to look into it, and the FBI is the investigative
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 7: body to do so that he kind of gives them
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 7: a directive at that point, like we're not going to
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 7: investigate this shit over here that leads to this, We're
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 7: gonna look at other things that lead a different way,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 7: you know. And I think it was because of what
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 7: you said. You know, they were trying to avoid World
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 7: War three. They didn't want to get into another war.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 7: Because you know, if people thought that Russia or Cuba
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 7: or Castro or was behind the assassination and controlling Oswald,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 7: then you got a big problem, because you got you're
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 7: gonna have an outraged public demanding action at that point.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 7: You know, an easy way out is to say, no,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 7: this guy was a lone nut. He was, you know,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 7: off his rocker. Don't don't look at all the ship
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 7: that he was associating with. You know, he was just
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 7: a very problem guy. And this that and the other,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 7: and you know, and I think like and the FBI
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 7: was watching him, man. You know, as soon as he
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 7: got back from Russia, Fain was on him. He got
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 7: handed off to Hosty, and he was handed off to
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 7: New Orleans when he moved to New Orleans and then
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 7: back to Dallas. I mean they even sent Warren to
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 7: breeze to Dallas as soon as Oswald was arrested. And
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 7: the reason they did that is because you know, Debries
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 7: knew him, knew his file, knew knew what had happened
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 7: in New Orleans, and they knew what had happened in
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 7: New Orleans. Relatively quickly after Oswald's arrest. You know, that
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 7: stuff was blasted out on the news everywhere. And of
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 7: course the FBI had it early, Like I said, you
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 7: have debris. They sent a breeze to Dallas for a reason.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 7: And I think the FBI was more worried about Marina
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 7: Oswald than Lee actually and keep her. And but again,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 7: if if you believe what Oswald is supposed to have
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 7: said to several different people was that the FBI was
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 7: making it very hard for him to keep a decent job,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 7: a place to live, earn decent wage, because you know,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 7: the FBI was always come snooping around asking questions, you
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 7: know this, and.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: That I feel like the most likely path to Ruth
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: Payne having federal involvement as being a an FBI informant
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: whose core target was Marina. That's totally believe makes sense
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: to me. I mean that that's that's Larry Hancock's theory.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: And uh, I mean that's what I understand it to be.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's I don't want to put words, mister
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: Hancock's out there, but but uh, but but yeah, I
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: mean it doesn't always have to be Oswald. Obviously, Marina.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: There's a CIA document that says, here's twenty nine reasons
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: why Marina is KGB, So, so you know, they probably
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: wanted to keep keep an eye on her. That that
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: makes a lot of sense. I guess when we look
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: at I don't know, just just all all the little
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: evidentiary things in the case, you know, the the the
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: you know, Trail of C three ninety nine for example,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: it's just, uh, you know, there's a bunch of anomalies
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: that just make you wonder if everything is on the
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: up and up over at the FBI. That's that's that's
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: that's kind of all I'm saying. And but but Hoover's
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: ultimate motive I'm led to believe. So. So there's a
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: book I read. Uh it's like the main but it's
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: called Active Treason, and uh, it's it's a book to
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: focus is on Hoover. And the argument is it's got
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: it's got pretty good research. Generally it goes it's really
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: good stuff on rfk's kids come in to go see Hoover,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: and then he had to go to and Hoover hated
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: the kids, and he hated r f K, and and
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: RFKH had to go to an emergency meeting at the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: White House. So he left his kids with Hoovers like
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: toddlers he just left one of them being RK Junior,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: just left them with Hoover while he had to jet
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: to the White House. That's hilarious. It's amazing.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 7: Kennedy Brett.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: RFK is just like put that hamburger down. His his
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: voice is all messed up.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 7: He's like four years old.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Uh and Yeah. To answer your question, I think Jangar
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: Hoover was probably surprised at the news, and I think
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: he probably went into cover your asthma pretty quickly in
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: terms of like a lot of agencies did with with
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: their contact with Oswald.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 7: We know about.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: You know, him requesting an FBI agent after August ninth,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: and uh and and and debris and and some of
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: the allegations of him being seen with it was debris
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: right in New Orleans.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 7: Painous as he was an FBI in format for debris.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and I think that's kind of common with
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: with a lot of the agencies, is that what they
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: all were using Oswalt for their specific purpose, whether it's uh,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: you know, Jim Angleton Kinnter intelligence with the file or
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: this and that, and at some point they all went Okay,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: we have to cover our eyes now.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Uh, that's my working theory for sure.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: Well on the you know, the the linking Oswald to Cuba,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: there's the whole Alvarado thing about the the guy that
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: came and supposedly bribed Oswald with his cash at the
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: Cuban embassy. Uh, And the CIA is really trying to
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: run with that.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Story, yeah, the red headed, red headed.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: Guy or Yeah. Meanwhile, the FBI is trying to hit
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: the brakes on it. They pull all their uh, their
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: experts on, all their Cuba experts off the case. They
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: they they instruct them to not follow the leads with
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: you know, conspiracy leads, and and that kind of to
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: me is consistent with, Hey, the CIA is trying to
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: do a false flag and the FBI is trying to
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: do what the president wants, which is to not have
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: a nuclear war.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think to your point, there's a ton
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: of different motivations by the different agencies, whether it's self
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: preservation or whatever. But that's what makes this case so
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: hard to kind of deconstruct sixty one almost sixty two
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: years later, is that all these agencies are kind of
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: running cover for themselves.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so Matt, you mentioned something earlier, and I
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: was going to get into this. Fred Letwin is a
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: friend of our show, and I listened.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 7: To the he was a friend of our show.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I met him in Dallas this year and
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: he's a good guy. We'll get to that reference soon.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: And he came on a couple of months ago. And
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: I know you had your debate with him on the
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: Sean Attwood Show, which I thought was great and you
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: did a great job because it's not easy to debate
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: fre It. He knows what he's talking about.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's in particular and accellent. He knows about New
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: Orleans and the Garrison case in particular. I had him
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: on my show to talk New Orleans. Yeah, and everybody
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: was like, I thought, I thought you thought there was
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: a conspiracy. Crumpton like what, Yeah, you're agreeing with him
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: on all these things. And you know, I do agree
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: with with him that. I don't think uh Perry, uh
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: what's his name, what's killing?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: Don't think Kevin Bacon killed the president. I don't think
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: uh Perry Russo story. It's like, well, what's the story
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: you you overheard you say you overheard Clay Shaw bertrand whatever,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: and David Ferry and Oswald with a beard, uh talk
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: about killing the president and a crossfire. Okay, yes' like
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: to me, even if the story is true, that doesn't
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: prove that any of that actually happened. I mean, now,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: Clay Shaw, you and David Ferry certainly they have ties
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: so you know that are worthy of exploring and that
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: I think we got to keep an eye on them.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: There's you know, there's there's open people of interest. But
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: but the idea that that Perry Russo witnessed some you know,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: provable smoking gun, it's it's not as you know. Then
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: there's the whole sodium pentathal thing which makes it less fun.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: The thing the thing that turned me on it on
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: the whole like and look, I'm not hating Jim Garrison.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: Look I think he did more. I think he uh
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: what I mean, I think that he brought a lot
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: of good stuff to light. Okay. The stuff that bothered
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: me the most about about about it, as just as
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: an attorney, were the favors that he did, just the
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: pure corruption in terms of Perry Russo's friends, like he
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 3: helped his one. He while Perry Russo is a prime
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: witness in his case, he's helping Russo's friend who had
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: gotten kicked out of LSU. He calls the governor and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: gets his friend reinstated LSU. It's a pretty big favor
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: to do. Then he has another friend, Ruce, and this
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: is and it wouldn't bother me as much as was
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: after the the trial, but this is before the trial
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: when he really needs to keep him on the on
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: the on the hook, you know. And and then the
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: other thing he does is he has a friend who's
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: got drafted. His draft number was up and he's gonna
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: have to go to Vietnam. But if you have a
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: criminal charges pending against you, you're not eligible to go
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: to the draft. So he didn't have to go. So
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: he got he got Garrison to cook up fake charges
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: against his friend, and Garrison did it, and in fact
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: his friend was charged with a crime and he didn't.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: Have to go to Vietnam.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: So I mean, I saw that, I was like, uh,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: And I saw the Sodium Pentathon and I read all
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: this stuff, but I still think, I mean, do Clay
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: Shaw's deep Cia, David Ferries super duper shady guy Banister
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: all day long? So yeah, these characters and the sub
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: so what I agree with Fred Litt went about is
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: the specifics of the Garrison case and a lot of
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: that stuff. What I disagree with him about is the
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: significance and sort of the meaning of the evidence when
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: it comes to Guy Banister, all those interpretation of it.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: Almost yeah, right.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: And then when we went on at Wood talking about
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: the case at large, that's when that's when we kind
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: of really got to display our differences in views.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, And I watched both shows and friend
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: has come on and he he is a good guy.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to play this very short clip that's
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: gonna be funny from our interview with him a few
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: months ago. I think it was right before Lance or Rob.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: And then I want to get your take on his
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: take on David Ferry. And this is kind of a
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: running joke in our community. H and and we'll explain
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: it in a second.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 9: So I have to say that, you know, David Ferry
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 9: was a really good guy and incredibly misunderstood. He was
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 9: the sort of person who if you had a flat
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 9: tire at a restaurant, he would go and change it
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 9: for you. He was a really intelligent man who spoke
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 9: multiple languages, played the piano flu very very well, educated
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 9: and he had nothing to do with any of them,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 9: I mean nothing. And he was actually a very very
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 9: good person.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 7: Well I don't know if I call him a good
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 7: person for it. He did have some some black marks
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 7: against him there.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 9: Well, you know, I have to say on the homosexuality
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 9: side that you know, the age of consent here in
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 9: Canada is sixteen, and he would He had sixteen year
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 9: olds and by the way, who were always coming back
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 9: to him. Their parents might not have been happy, but
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 9: when they ran away from home, where did.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 7: They go to?
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 9: They went to day a Fairy's house because he took
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 9: them to church on Sundays. He taught them to play piano,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 9: he taught them to fly, He taught them also they
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 9: loved him. And I spoke to Alba buff a couple
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 9: of years ago who went on the Texas trip and
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 9: still loves still speaks very highly.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: Of them, all right, So that's kind of been a
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: running joke.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 7: And and that was like five minutes into the show.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 7: Matt and I was like, Oh, here we go. It's
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 7: gonna be a long interview.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: And then we asked them about the Eastern Airlines thing,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's kind of grooming techniques, but like
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I want to purpose it by like I think both
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: of us we like Fred. He's a funny guy, he's
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: a good guy a whole.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 7: Very early on in the show, I don't.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: Like I said, man, I truly like I want to
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: be cool with everybody. I don't want there to be
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: anybody in the JFK community that's like, screwmat Crumpton. That
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: guy's I like, you could be like his idea is
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: wrong about this because of this, and I know people
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 3: are gonna do whatever they do. But if people are
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: hit me with like vitriol, I'm just not gonna interface
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: with them. I'm just gonna kind of move on, you know.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's the best thing to do is just ignore
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 7: them and move on.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: But but Fred Fred has been respectful. And look, my
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: my audience is not love it when I have Fred on.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: But but I like especially for what I'm trying to do,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: where my whole premise is I'm trying to get the counterpoints.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: But well, I will say what I.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: Look at does a great job at that, and I think.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: For sure, and then like he'll lay it out and
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 3: I'd be like, hey, who you're saying. But I still
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: don't buy it, you know what I mean.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: So so, but but.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh, you think guy David Fair is a
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: good guy. I think David Ferry uh was an extreme
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: anti communist. I think David Ferry took some uh you know,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: he certainly did some unethical, immoral things with kids time.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking about homosexuality. I'm talking about taking advantage
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: of somebody who's a child. Okay, that's that's That's what
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about. Yeah, So, so I don't think I
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: don't think that's yeah, that's good referry to that, but
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: more to the point of the case, you know. And
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: also David Ferry, he kind of seemed like he liked
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: a good time. We'll say this about Fairy. So I'm
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: not gonna say he's a good guy. Could you argue
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: that he would have been fun to hang out with?
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 7: Maybe? Right?
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: And the only reason I would say that is because, uh,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: he stole that plane h and and flew it from
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 3: Columbus to h to Cleveland and then he landed and
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: pretended to be like an officer in the Air Force
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: and made everyone salute him. I think Joe Peshy was
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: great to play him for for like what the record
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: says he was like although if you listen to recordings
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: to David Faery, it doesn't sound.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: Like that, nothing like that. But but he was, Yeah,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: he wasn't intellectual. And I think the word I would
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: maybe put towards him instead of a good guy would
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: be misunderstood.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: Uh. I mean, I don't know enough about his his
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: personal uh like was he did he have like a
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: sunny disposition?
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 7: You know what I mean?
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: But but if we look at the documents and we
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: look at the witness statements, uh, you know, David Ferry
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: is doing some doing some. He's involved in some shenanigans
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: with the Cubans. His best friends a freaking uh what's
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: his name, Arcotchia Sergio Arcotcha Smith so uh and Urcocha
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: Smith is super dialed in with Banister and so his fairy.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: He's dealed in with Banister and Banister's where he's paying
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: all these people to go infiltrate groups. He's just doing
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: that for fun. He's either FBI or CIA. He's worked
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: for somebody, navel and everybody. It says naval intelligence. So
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: I just thought if you ever hear me say naval intelligence,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: that just means I think that. You'll think I'm smart
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: if I say it, but I'll have to dig more
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: on naval intelligence.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: Well, like naval.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 7: Intelligence has been around since like the late eighteen hundreds. Yeah,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 7: the CI has only been around officially since nineteen forty seven.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 7: Before that was the USS.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I think Jim Garrison's case died when David
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: Ferry died exactly. And uh and it was severely damaged
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: when Guy Banister died. I'm not saying Guy Banister was murdered,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: although a heart attack gun did exist.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: Part of the Church committee. And I don't know if
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: you saw our episode with Janet Banister his uh no.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: I mean tell me about it. I was I saw
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: that she was doing something. I came across that in
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: a in a Reddit forum that was hating on me.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah, she started a podcast last summer. I forget what
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 7: it's called off hand in the closet.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what's her take? What's her what's the position of
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: her podcast?
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: Little nun but a good one.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 7: Well, so far, she's just being very cautious. Like the
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 7: first season of the podcast was basically guys beginnings with
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 7: the FBI, you know when he started and you know,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 7: going back his major accomplishments in his life. She hasn't
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 7: really gotten to New Orleans yet. That's season two, okay.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 7: And I actually I met with her a couple of
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 7: weeks ago because she wanted to go over some things
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 7: for season two, and she wanted me to help her
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 7: with some documents and stuff from from Guy Banister and
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 7: and witness statements, and because there's a ton of them,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 7: you know, when it comes to Banister, there's there's so
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 7: much out there, you know, like everybody says, oh, he
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 7: was like like talking to Fred, he'll tell you, Oh,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 7: Guy Banister was so poor he couldn't pay his eight
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 7: dollars rent, uh, you know, and he got kicked out
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 7: on the streets and blah blah blah. Yet I find
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 7: his I find his homicide report, right, and it tells
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 7: of like Delphine Roberts how she found Guy. She went
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 7: to Guy Banister's house. He was separated from his wife Mary,
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 7: and he was living on his own in this apartment house.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 7: It was like, you know, a big house, but it
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 7: was separated into like four different apartments, and he was
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 7: on the bottom left, in like Apartment B or something.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 7: And Delphine goes over there and looks in the window
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 7: because they haven't been able to reach him, and she
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 7: sees him laying on the couch, but he won't answer
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 7: the door. So she calls his friend Bill Nichke, former
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 7: FBI buddy, and Bill Bill comes over and they break
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 7: into his apartment and find him dead laying there. And
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 7: the police reports lays it all out. I mean, they
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 7: found like the equivalent of what was it, like four
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 7: thousand dollars in his pocket in today's money, right, And
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 7: that she's seen his pocket, not in his wallet, not
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 7: stuffed in a drawer somewhere, not in his car, not
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 7: in his bank account. But this guy had money to
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 7: pay his rent, right if you wanted to, Right, you
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 7: know what's eight dollars when you're walking around with you know,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 7: hundreds and hundreds of dollars, which in today's money, it
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 7: translates to thousands and thousands of dollars, right, Right, So
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 7: something about that is a little shady, right. And she
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 7: she had never seen these documents before, so I sent
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 7: them all over to her. And you know those interviews
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 7: with like Joseph Auster, Joe Newborough, the fat Man who said,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 7: you know some some different things, and of course you
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 7: have all these other people who was supposedly were working
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 7: for Banister if you will, you know, so the guy
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 7: had money. I mean, he's got to be paying these people.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 7: Are not just doing all this shit for free. You know,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 7: he's paying them something. Yeah, yeah, where's he getting that
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 7: money from? Right? You know? So is this stuff above board?
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 7: I don't know, you know, it's it's it's odd us,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 7: you know, when it when it comes to Banister, what
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 7: his goats were, what he could have been behind. You know,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 7: like when we got into the whole Martin thing and
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 7: that kid was sent from General Walker to New Orleans,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 7: and then all of a sudden we have you know,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 7: Oswald on video doing this pro castro ship and getting
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 7: arrested for it, and it's just it's all fishy, you know's.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: What did she say about that?
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 7: Well? Yeah, yeah, you know I told her the theory.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 7: We kind of reiterated to her. I don't think we
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 7: talked about it on the air with her, but I
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 7: don't think I told her a couple of weeks ago.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 7: You know, the thought process, you know, I kind of
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 7: laid it all out for and I was like, you know,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 7: this is gonna sound crazy, but just just hear me out,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 7: you know, and I kind of laid it all out,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 7: and you know, she was like, well, you know that
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 7: kind of makes sense. But I think the speculation, it's
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 7: just the thought. It's just a theory. There's absolutely no
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 7: corroboration behind it. But when when you put all of
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 7: these little puzzle pieces together, you know, it kind of
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 7: points in a certain direction.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not just a well, I mean, like
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: to me, it's just a theory. It's just a theory
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: to say that that Bill Greer shot JFK that head
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: based on the the film. It's just the theory to
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 3: say George Hickey did based on based on three arguments.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: This this has a lot more touch points, you know
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: what I mean.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 7: So the one thing we didn't tell you when we
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 7: were on your show when it comes to this theory
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 7: is Okay, the very last thing that you see on
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 7: the John T. Martin film before it cuts to Canal
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 7: Street is that lo the Lafayette Square, the statue in
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 7: Lafayette Square, And the story goes that John T. Martin
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 7: tells is that he heard commotion so he ran over
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 7: there with his camera to film it.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 6: M hm.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 7: We pulled up a map of New Orleans, and we
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 7: Google mapped right, so we're on the street view. We're
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 7: at Lafia Square. So I got it started walking towards,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 7: you know, walking down the street, towards Canal Street, and
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 7: it is freaking well, what would you say, Joe? Eight
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 7: blocks away?
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: Well, let's count. It's I'm pulling this off from mar
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: John t perstitution from his last from his last film.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 7: And interestingly enough, Matt he goes right by Orris Pena's bar,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 7: the Habanah Bar. He goes past Casa Rocco, which is
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 7: Bringier's store, okay, and then he makes a right uh
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 7: right there, It goes past the trademark and then the
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 7: street fractice is right there.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, copies out there too.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: That was fun. We should have a conference in New
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: Orleans to do a walking tour there.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah. How many talks is that?
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 4: Joe?
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 7: So we got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 7: I mean this is so far you're not going to
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 7: hear this from fourteen blocks away, Like we walked it
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 7: on Google street view, hang on, hang on, go.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: It was like he says that the frucus that he
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: heard was from Jackson Square.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he said he heard a commotion and went to
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 7: film it.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then that the same thing that that actually
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: is on the film as the commotion that he heard. Yeah, well,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: that's obviously nonsense.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 7: Here it touts from Jackson Square to the street Fragus.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you've established that that's crazy. So he's
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: lying then, Yeah.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 7: Right, So doesn't mean he specifically to that spot on Canal.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: Street because he was sent there to go film Oswald
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 3: in this fight.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah right, you think so.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, we think that's plausible. We think the take
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: one when he wrote that letter to VT. Lee, which
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: I believe was on August first, nineteen sixty three, rob
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: and told about a story to the Fair Play for
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: Cuba Committee that he got beat up by a bunch
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: of Kubanos or whatever the name he had for it,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: and then it happened a week later. And yeah, there's
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: no way that from his last film and on his
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: video that he would heard the street fracas unless it
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: was again a massive coincidence and a case full of coincidences,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: that he, you know, heard this from a dozen blocks
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: away and happened to get it on film.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: And Jackson Square is the same thing as Lafayette Square
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: that's just the.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 7: Prior name to I got, I got it mixed up.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 7: Lafayette Square is close, is right across from the Banisher's office.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 7: That's my fault, mixed up Jackson Okay, he was a square.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean even so, Okay, so we're talking one
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: to he was a Jackson Square, a Lafayette That.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: His last his last part of the film before the
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: fracas was in Jackson Square. It was the.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: So yeah, obviously there's no way he could have heard that,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: no way from there, I mean obviously.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 7: So yeah, so yeah, there you go.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, and so it'll be nice to see what
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 3: what Janet Banister ends up doing with her podcast. So basically,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: she has not reached a point where she has to
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: make a decision on the show yet, and.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: She's very objective. To her credit, she's I think she
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: said in one of the episodes that she's, you know,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: trying to bridge the gap between Guy and Banister. That
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: she knew with her family right the did she know him? Yeah,
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: it was her great uncle.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah, actually no, she never met him, but she is
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 7: still alive, right.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: Her brother or his brother, no, her dad, oh, his
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: his nephew. Yes, he's the great nephew, right, yeah, and
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: she was trying to bridge the gap of what people
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: assume about guy banished her and what her family thinks,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: and how it's probably somewhere in the middle, like it falls, right.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah. Of course the family doesn't want to believe in
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 7: a conspiracy or that he was into any of this stuff.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 7: Of course you don't. You don't want that family family,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 7: But you know, I told her, I was like, you
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 7: got to be honest with yourself no matter where you
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 7: come down with this.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: Also, it's I think pretty undisputed and disputed that Banister
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: hated Kennedy. Okay, okay, So there's that, all right. And
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: then separately, if he's going to let's say he was
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: doing what I think he was doing, which is continuing
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: what he had done his entire career with the FBI,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: which is getting people to infiltrate leftist groups.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 7: And uh, I think that's yes, absolutely, that's right. Yeah.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 3: And and I think from the perspective of someone that's
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: in his family, if you don't want to feel bad
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: about your family, it's easy, you just go. He was
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: doing his job and it was compartmentalized, and he didn't
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 3: know that because I think it probably is true. I
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: don't think I don't think there's why would There's no
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: reason Banister would need to know about the whole plot.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: He just would just need to know that Oswald's we
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: you know, we need this guy now. Maybe he maybe
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: he did know. I'm not saying he didn't know for sure,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: but but it's quite possitive.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: Operational need for him to know.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 7: So she thinks that, you know, towards the end of
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 7: his life, that he may have suffered a stroke, he
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 7: was you know, raging alcoholic and wasn't making good decisions,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 7: which could possibly be true. I mean, it's quite evident
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 7: that what happened with the New Orleans PD when he
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 7: was you know, sent there to clean him up when
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 7: he was hired, you know, to clean up the head
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 7: the crime Commission. Yeah, you know, he reprimanded like ninety
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 7: two officers in the OPD, and he had all kinds
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 7: of people pissed off at him, right, you know, so
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 7: some of these incidents could have been blown out of proportion.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 7: You know, where he's pull up. He pulled a gun
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 7: on me and told me he was going to kill him,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 7: you know, And so who knows what the truth of
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 7: all that was I think he was in his element
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 7: when he was working for himself.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean, let's not forget the five forty
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: four Camp Street. Uh. And then and then the thing,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: the thing that for me just put me over the
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: top on that was Jesse Corr, who was like Clay
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 3: Shaw's right hand man, and he is He sent a
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 3: copy of the pamphlet UH and circled UH the fair
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: Play for Cuba stamp and he wrote a note on
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 3: the front page that said note inside back cover and
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: he sent it to the head of the New Orleans FBI.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 3: So why the hell is he doing that if there's
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 3: not something to pay attention to. He was like, dude,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: your boys using the five forty four Camp.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: Street, you know.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 3: And I still I said that to Fred and he goes, well,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: that's not how I see it.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 7: So again, you know, we had an input of a
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 7: cr that was the you know, the headquarters of the CRC,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 7: Sergey R. Conscious Smith's group, right, you know Rugans associated
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 7: with him and bring A and his group, you have
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 7: bring it Carlos Kuroga TRN to infiltrate Oswald's fair Play
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 7: for Cuba Committee unofficially if you will, for whatever purpose.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 3: And then and then uh remember like the HSCA used
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 3: William Gaudet, they used his testimony for for Mexico City,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 3: and then they in the same interview that they got
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: his testimony from Mexico City, he told them that he
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: witnessed Banister talking to Oswald in front of the trademark
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: and it looked like they were in serious conversation and
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 3: Banister wanted Oswald to do something for him, but nobody
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: mentioned that. They did mention that in their section on
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 3: New Orleans. So so yeah, I'm I'm completely sold on
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: Banister being uh working for some sort of governmental entity
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: doing what he did his entire career. And it's you know,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: I don't think he's necessarily you can say that he's
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: a plotter of the of the assassination itself, just because
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 3: he was working to sheep Boswall, which could have been
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: done for a number of purposes, exactly exactly, And he's.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 7: Only associated because of the people that were around his
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 7: office at the time. When you're talking about Ferry, Jack Martin,
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 7: because somebody, somebody dropped the dime very quickly in New
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 7: Orleans implicating David Ferry. Yeah, and it wasn't Jack Martin.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 7: I mean it was, but somebody tipped off the FBI
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 7: to Jack Martin before, Like Jack Martin didn't go to them,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 7: they went to him because somebody else tipped him off.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 7: Martin was saying all this shit. So it's a very
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 7: crazy sequence of events, you know. And I think, like
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 7: you said earlier, you know, had had banished or not died,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 7: Had David Ferry not died, that that Clay Shaw or
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry that Jim Jim Garrison investigation would have came
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 7: out a lot differently, you.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: Know, Yes, yeah, for sure. And so my last question here,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: Matt is an easy one, but a tough one. And
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: I think you covered this and most of your season two.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: Oswalt winning or unwitting overall.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: The overall or do you mean just the Soviet Union?
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: Let's just say Soviet Union?
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 3: Now, okay, So what I would say, my current working
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 3: theory of the case that I humbly submit is that
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: Oswald started working for the CIA when he was in
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 3: the Marines, probably in Atsugi. You got a couple of
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 3: people that he's in the Marines with who say this.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: David Bucknell is one of them. Now, yes, it is.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 3: In Hustler magazine. But you know, it's whatever the record
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: saying it, okay, and this one who was there to know?
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 3: I think that all you know, the popovs mole stuff.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 3: I know that everyone's not fully on board with that.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 3: But if you've got the whole point of that, let's
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 3: put the was Oswald used for for you know, bait
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 3: to do a Soviet Let let's put that on the side.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: For a second.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: The point is the routing of his files establishes conclusively.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: And I've never heard a counterpoint from this, okay, and
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: I should have brought it up on that one. But
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 3: the routing of his files should have gone to the
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: Soviet Union or the Soviet Russian Division if he was
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 3: I mean security right, if he was being washed as
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: a potential threat. But instead it went to the Office
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 3: of the Office of Security. You know that spies on
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 3: spies and that that doesn't you know, again, like they
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 3: would do why would they do that? Well, that would
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 3: and you know what they they asked Jane Roman. I
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: think what that meant Morley and Newman and Jane Roman.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: Was operational interest in Oswald.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 3: You got it, That's it. So and then to have
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 3: to have Pete Bagley who's the head of you know,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: the main counter intelligence agent of the CIA going against
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: the KGB. For him to basically say no, Oswald was
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 3: witting and he and he was a defector specifically as
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 3: bait on this YouTube program, I mean I could see that.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 3: I also, you know, I was listening to Larry Hancock
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: on some show today, maybe he was on I don't
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 3: remember what show it was. But uh, and he doesn't
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: think oz he does. He thinks they used Oswald, but
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: that he wasn't witting. So he he's open to the
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: idea that that Oswald was bait for something. But but
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 3: maybe he didn't even know and you know whatever. So uh,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 3: because here's the challenge of was he witting or not witning?
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 3: What's what's inside this guy's head? Like is he really
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: a Marxist? Now now it's easy to go obviously it's
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 3: all bullshit. Man, what are you talking about? He's he's
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: not a Marxist, that's an act. But when does he
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 3: start writing to the National Socialist Party or whatever or
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 3: the you when he's a teenager? So I would you know?
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: And then he's talking about it when he's in the military.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: But he only starts talking about it in the military.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: When he gets back from Japan, he doesn't say anything
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 3: about any of this stuff in Japan, and nobody said
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 3: he ever talks about any Marxism anything any the whole time.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 3: So so to me, it's consistent with I think he
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 3: was probably interested in it. I think he would did
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 3: like lean that way, and then I think that that
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 3: he but he also at the end of the day,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: was a marine first and foremost, and I think he
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't know, but but I I tend
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: to lean on the Soviet Union as a false defector.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm on the record at UH and then
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna go deeper on that whole pop osmald thing.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: And then and then I think that for for New Orleans,
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 3: UH and everywhere else, I think he's involved in something.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 3: There's some other plot going on. Hancock today. He laid
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 3: out this whole thing of UH Oswald, like the Redbird
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 3: Airport thing, like the Wayne January, like that was that
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 3: was real, and Oswald was ready to fly to Cuba,
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 3: and and that's what he was. That's why he's acting
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 3: all weird on the night before with Marina. He's getting
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 3: ready to fly to Cuba. And he's gonna kind of
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 3: like take the next step in this his mention that
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: he thinks he has and that he was told to
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: meet someone at the Texas Theater. So so, I mean,
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: you know that I could see that being the case too.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: So so yeah, I mean, I generally would say I
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: leaned towards Oswald definitely is not just an innocent bystander.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 3: I'm certain about that. He's he's privy to some other thing,
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 3: or he's been told some other thing, and he thinks
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 3: he's doing some spy type stuff. Yes, And I think
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 3: he liked that, and he wasn't a total idiot, but
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 3: he was probably maybe a little gullible and he was
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 3: being being used by the agency.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I agree, And he was Bond novels.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, Ian Fleming. Yeah. And I go
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: back on forth on this all the time, and and
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: I I think he was unwitting in most situations, but
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: when he knew that he had to be winning uh
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: as his example to get back from the Soviet Union,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: and he did what he had to do. And I
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: think he wrote that this is the last time I'm
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: ever going to work for anyone or anyone's interest. It's
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: it's so a complicated question, and you gave a really
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: good answer. And I think Larry and David Boylan have
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: done an amazing job, and I know you've interviewed them
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: and we've had him on twice. Oswald Puzzle an amazing book,
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: I think, mostly unwitting and of course his file being
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: used by the Office of Security in Angleton, they might
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: have had their own intentions for that. It's it's one
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: of those things that that just will will blow the
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: mind and and take you down a million different rabbit holes.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: But I think he was sitting in some in some
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: aspects when he had to be.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 7: Hey.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 3: So here's a good a good counterpoint that n K
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 3: brought up to the point about Oswald being uh, you know,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: writing writing to the Socialist Party, Uh, when he was young. Well,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 3: he was also in the Civil Air Patrol before that
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 3: and he signed up for that. So how how left
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 3: wing can you be to be in and then he
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 3: signed up for the Marines. So I think he's a
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 3: complex dude. Uh, And I think several things can be
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 3: true at the same time.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 7: But but he.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 3: It was arguable whether he was winning or not in
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 3: the Soviet Union. I think when he got back. He
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 3: did not think he was involved in a plot to
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 3: kill the president. I don't think, but I think that
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: he was involved in something. Some people think that there
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 3: was a here's a here's a theory that I keep
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 3: hearing people say that smart people that have studied this,
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 3: that there was basically a false flag that was planned
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 3: to fire a shot at the president like a security test.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and then that and then we blame it
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 3: on Cuba, uh and uh and then and then you know,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 3: nefarious elements took advantage of that and did an act
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 3: actual plot. And I hate to bring it up, but
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: that's you know, nine to eleven. That's the official story,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 3: is that we had war games on on for you know,
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 3: these four planes with a planned scenario of a hijacking
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 3: at the moment that it happened. So the argument is
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 3: that it was a similar thing like that, like, you know,
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: someone took advantage of an existing whatever. What we got
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 3: Matt is Lee was witting and Harvey unwitting. I think
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: you're gonna write Matt as a nine to eleven truther there.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: Hey, you're in a safe space. There again, we usually
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: go over that stuff on numbers only.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 7: And I got one last thing for you, Matt. It's
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 7: a fun document that I came across. It's actually a
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 7: preview for an episode we're going to do here in
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 7: a couple of weeks, and it's from nineteen fifty three
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 7: and it's a CIE document for the Inspector General at
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 7: the time subject use of LSD. Okay, now go on
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 7: Pursuing to your request. Doctor Willis Gibbons, chief of TSS,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 7: was contacted on the evening of thirty November nineteen fifty
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 7: three concerning points here and after noted Doctor Gibbons has
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 7: impounded all s D material in CIA headquarters in a
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 7: safe adjacent to his desk. No one else has the
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 7: combination to this safe. The material was so impounded. On
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 7: twenty November nineteen fifty three, Doctor Gibbons stated that he
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 7: is stopping all in any LSD tests which may have
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 7: been instituted or completed under CIA auspices. A cable will
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 7: be sent to the field on one December nineteen fifty
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 7: three to this effect. Only two field stations Matt Manila,
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 7: which is the Philippines and at Sugi, which is Japan,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 7: have LSD material. There is none in Germany. Although mister
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 7: William Harvey recently expressed interest in obtaining some A cable
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 7: to the field on one no One December fifty three,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 7: will instruct the field as to non use and request
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 7: to use, uh as to how much is on hand
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 7: and who has custody and access to this material. CIA
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 7: is furnished the limited quality our quantity of LSD to
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 7: mister George White, Chief of the New York District Narcotics Division,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 7: Treasury Department. Doctor Gibbons does not know where the exact
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 7: amount mister White has, and White White is fully cleared
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 7: to use accordingly, according to doctor Gibbons, So I find
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 7: it odd that the only two field stations that the
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 7: CIA has that have ls D for the for use
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 7: is Manila and Atsugi, two places that we know. Oswald
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 7: was right some if you I mean put this at
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 7: the end of fifty three, and he joined in what
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 7: fifty seven, you know, three years prior to Oswold joining
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 7: the Marines and being sent over there. So we don't.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 7: So we don't know.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 3: We don't know for sure that it continued, but we don't.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 3: Is there anything that says that it ended? Is that
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 3: what that document says.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 7: Mk Alter hadn't even started yet that this is probably
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 7: like artichoke time.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm just saying, they're just saying, this is
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 3: where the vials are.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: Love.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: I love that they said the one guy didn't they
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 3: didn't know how much he had. There's probably a memo
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 3: background and it's like, don't worry about it, We're good.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and then what's his face goes flying out of
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 7: a you know, twenty story window in New York.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 3: Frank Olsen, Yes, I've got a a I write songs
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 3: about this kind of stuff. On the side. I've got
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 3: this great song called make Me Forget, which is the
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 3: concept is like you like this girl so much that
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: she makes you forget about all the crimes the government did.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 3: It starts with throwing frankleson out of windows the first lyric.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah nice, I love it. Well, Matt dude, I hope
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 7: you had a blast. We had a blast having you
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 7: on the show.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 7: Yeah, good time, and do it again whenever you know,
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 7: whenever you want.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: I think i'll know more stuff at the end of
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 3: season three, or I'll be more confused. Either way, I'd
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 3: love to come back on.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, we would love it for sure. And one
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: thing I wanted to ask before you go, Uh, So
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: you're exploring the different factions, how are you going to
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: explore different intermingling of the factions? What like we're the
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: Cuban exiles with the CIA and JM wave or UH
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: and the mafia, Like, how are you going to going
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: to explore possible collaborations between the factions you are explore
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: and season three?
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 3: That's a great, really great question. How I'm thinking about
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 3: it right now is just covering the entity itself for
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 3: like Secret Service, and just covering Secret Service right now.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 3: There's not a whole lot of interplay with them and
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 3: other things. But human exiles, CIA, FBI, Mafia. You know,
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: we're everywhere. So I think what I'm gonna do is
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: cover the main topic, and then when I get to
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 3: the next topic, I'll cover that, and then I'll cover
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 3: I'll cover the links in the context of one or
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 3: the other.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know what I mean.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: And then But the bottom line is what I expect
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 3: to happen. I'll tell you my long term plan here.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 3: What I expect to happen is I'm gonna have a
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 3: lot of open questions. I think I'm gonna be able
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 3: to rule a lot of things out right, and then
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 3: there's gonna be stuff that's just cloudy and inconclusive. And
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 3: I hope to have a list of questions that I
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 3: don't know the answer to that that really like are
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 3: the the main things I need to determine, And then
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 3: season four is going to be discussions and debates, and
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to try to interview the smartest people
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 3: and answer these specific questions and then alternate with debating
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: people on the other side. That's my plan for a
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 3: season four and then I'm going to compile it all
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: on a book and then I'm then then I'm out.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: Well, you're definitely one of the good good guys in
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: podcasting and uh.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 7: You know David ferry Way, yes, and not the Daily Uh.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: And we were definitely uh, we were happy to come
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: on your podcast, and we're definitely thrilled that you came
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: on ours. And to your point, I think the young.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 7: I don't want to.
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: Say new era of podcasters, the younger people should definitely
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: stick together and collab and and and work together because
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: that's how we're to get anything done. And it was
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: a pleasure to meet you in Dallas.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: When you were flying out that's a funny story to
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: end it off. You brought us We were at the
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: bar or eating lunch, and he brought the bottle of
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: Jack Daniels that opened. Three people in the chat can
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: corroborate this, and that would be Paula, Scott Edwards, and
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: Trey and I don't know who the bottle ended up with.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: But You're like, I can't take this on my flight.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: Here's a bottle with Jack Daniels for everyone. I was
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: like this, this dude is just fucking chill.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 7: What was funny?
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: Is it was? It was opened? I feel it was
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 3: it totally closed, like steal it off.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: I thought I was maybe one of the three people
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: that would have gotten could.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 3: If I thought I could get it through security, perhaps
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't have been so kind, is my theory on
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: the case.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, the plane obliterated.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, well that's why I gave it up because
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: I was flying out in a couple hours. Well, so
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: I would have definitely taken it. Screw you guys, listeners. Uh,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, but yeah, Ben, pleasure to have you
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: on and definitely hope we could try again.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 7: Yeah, definitely for all things. Matt Crumpton check out the
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 7: links in the description. You can find his YouTube channel
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 7: and his website where you can buy his book by
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 7: his merch and listen to his show. So check it out.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: One of the good guys.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 7: That's right now. But before we go, we got to
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 7: bring in uh.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: Do you know how Matt? Uh?
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you've got a pretty good Dean Andrews.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 3: Is that what's going on?
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we danced out to him.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 7: And clip of Dean Andrews dancing with a what do
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 7: they call it? It's not an umbrella. It starts with
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 7: a P. It's a fancy word for an umbrella, like
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 7: the French word.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 7: Parasol. Yes, he's dancing with a parasol. And and you
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 7: know he's got the music playing behind him. He's got
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 7: his Hawaiian shirt on, button shades on, dancing around and
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 7: uh he always dances us out of here. So without
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 7: further ado, thank you Mad for hanging with us here.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 7: Dog Ruby, Yeah, you gotta get Ruby, Joe, go get
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 7: the Dan.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: Do you have a dog named Ruby?
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 7: Man? Good job Ruby, that's the wrong song. Look out
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 7: for new episode of.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: The Dallas back Drop the Day checking out the Doctor.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 7: Johnny woods belly. But if I walked from window another
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 7: drop and my friends check.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: It, the crimes in the name of justice. The quotation
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: is Jim Garrison's. It could be used for him or
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: against him. In this strange case, it's for me.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 7: Thank you so for having out with ripping good by
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 7: stoking you. Thank you, Matt Wednesday. People you love m
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 7: m
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 3: M hm