Latest / Live in the Lab Schools / Ep #4 - TLC: Teacher's Lounge Chat (Our Festivus Episode)

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Ep #4 - TLC: Teacher's Lounge Chat (Our Festivus Episode) · Live in the Lab Schools

0:08
Ben Webb: Welcome to the pod.
0:09
Ben Webb: This week, our festivist episode where we're going to talk about some positive frustrations.
0:14
Ben Webb: Andy and I are going to vent a little bit about what are we seeing in education, what are we seeing in our schools, and what gets us fired up.
0:21
Ben Webb: My name is Ben Webb.
0:22
Ben Webb: This is Andy Goviea.
0:24
Ben Webb: Stick around.
0:24
Ben Webb: We are live in the lab.
0:26
Ben Webb: Welcome to the pod, everyone. Mr.
0:36
Ben Webb: Goviea, how are you doing today?
0:38
Andy Goveia: I'm upright.
0:40
Andy Goveia: Okay.
0:40
Andy Goveia: And uh alert and enthusiastic.
0:44
Ben Webb: Well, of all of those qualities, enthusiastic is usually the descriptor I would use to describe you.
0:50
Andy Goveia: Thank you.
0:51
Andy Goveia: I try.
0:51
Andy Goveia: Shout out to Mr.
0:52
Andy Goveia: Grant Souder, orchestra teacher.
0:54
Andy Goveia: Um, he sent us some really positive comments about the pod this week, and we're thrilled to to meet and encourage others.
1:03
Ben Webb: He's he is a great human who, if you don't know him, again, the positivity is wonderful, but he also knows how to craft something.
1:12
Ben Webb: Yes.
1:13
Ben Webb: So that no matter what he is saying, you feel better by the end of it.
1:17
Andy Goveia: So yes.
1:17
Andy Goveia: So shout out to Mr.
1:18
Andy Goveia: Souder, gem of a human being, and thank you for the fan mail, really.
1:23
Andy Goveia: Our first fan mail.
1:24
Andy Goveia: Fan mail.
1:25
Andy Goveia: It was our first fan mail.
1:26
Andy Goveia: So thank you, Mr.
1:27
Andy Goveia: Souter, for your time and your positive vibes.
1:32
Andy Goveia: Look for the fine arts episode about the lab schools here.
1:36
Ben Webb: Coming soon.
1:36
Ben Webb: I'm a theater ed guy, so no matter what, every episode is a fine arts episode.
1:41
Andy Goveia: Well, that's yes.
1:42
Andy Goveia: And I'm uh I'm a band geek at heart.
1:44
Andy Goveia: So really we are representing the arts.
1:48
Ben Webb: That reminds me class night.
1:49
Ben Webb: We got to start talking about the faculty band.
1:51
Andy Goveia: Oh, faculty band.
1:53
Andy Goveia: We got to do an episode on traditions.
1:55
Andy Goveia: We the lab schools where we've talked about, if you've listened to the pod, we've been recording a couple episodes.
2:02
Andy Goveia: Every time we get together, we come up with about three new ideas for an episode we need to do.
2:07
Andy Goveia: Um, but if you go back to our first episode, we talked about being a living laboratory and how we're trying to change, but we also have these deeply held traditions.
2:14
Andy Goveia: I think a traditions episode would be really fun.
2:17
Ben Webb: And if we had planned this better, it'd be coming out somewhere between Thanksgiving and Christmas and the holidays, and you'd have a like traditions and the holidays and but I agree with you, but I would also throw out like these are the ones, those are the different topics that I'm gonna want to talk about when the applications are live, people are deciding if they want to go to the lab schools, and definitely before our end-of-the-year traditions, which are so important.
2:40
Ben Webb: Like every school's got graduation.
2:42
Ben Webb: Yeah, every school's got something.
2:45
Andy Goveia: Our our eighth grade presentation and UHI end of senior experience are two very unique storied events and traditions here.
2:54
Andy Goveia: But that's unrelated to why we're here today.
2:56
Ben Webb: Yeah, today we're really just gonna kind of we don't have any guests.
2:59
Ben Webb: We are it's just us talking about like, okay, what are the things that are your teacher passion, your passion project, the thing that really like your productive frustrations?
3:12
Ben Webb: Yeah.
3:13
Ben Webb: Uh so it is both about the lab schools, but it's also more you as educator.
3:19
Ben Webb: And what are some of the things that you see in education, in the United States education system that have seeped into your classroom?
3:27
Ben Webb: And how do you either combat it, how do you fight it, how do you accept it, how do you try to change it?
3:33
Ben Webb: Like there are things that we can control, yeah, but our classrooms are a microcasm of what's out in the world.
3:40
Ben Webb: Yeah.
3:40
Ben Webb: And those students are bringing that into our room.
3:43
Ben Webb: And I think there's a there's a wonderful quotation.
3:46
Ben Webb: Um, I'm gonna totally butcher the quote, but the idea is as the classroom, you set the weather.
3:51
Ben Webb: And if they are bringing atmosphere into your classroom, how do you then create an environment that is not tumultuous and falling apart, even though for some kids that might be how their day is going.
4:06
Ben Webb: They might be having a day where it just feels like things are falling apart and they need that rock or that stability.
4:11
Ben Webb: And sometimes that's you in the classroom.
4:13
Ben Webb: You're that decisive element.
4:15
Ben Webb: That's the one part of the quote that I got right.
4:17
Ben Webb: You are the decisive element in the classroom.
4:20
Andy Goveia: I am.
4:20
Andy Goveia: Thank you, Mr.
4:21
Andy Goveia: Webb.
4:21
Andy Goveia: That's really a positive compliment.
4:23
Andy Goveia: Thank you.
4:24
Andy Goveia: Uh no, that's that's a really good quote.
4:27
Ben Webb: I'm gonna find it.
4:28
Ben Webb: I'm gonna post it on our Instagram, and I'm gonna mention that that quote has been.
4:34
Ben Webb: I've got a little blue binder that I got at in my undergrad at Augustana.
4:38
Ben Webb: That was something that was given to me by you always do the fast five.
4:43
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
4:44
Ben Webb: And my teacher in college, who I would say is my person who pushed me to educat into education, that was from her in that quote that she found and said, Hey, I know you guys are just going out and doing inclusion clinicals, but I want you to think about this before you go into this classroom.
5:00
Ben Webb: So I'll find then I'll put it on our Instagram.
5:02
Ben Webb: So I got three questions for you about like your why.
5:06
Ben Webb: Yeah.
5:06
Ben Webb: And then let's do it.
5:07
Ben Webb: I'll try to like my hope today is to try and fire you up a little bit.
5:12
Andy Goveia: Oh, I love that.
5:13
Andy Goveia: We've had so many guests on in previous episodes.
5:16
Andy Goveia: We've done a lot of talking to other people.
5:19
Andy Goveia: It's nice.
5:19
Andy Goveia: We're just you're gonna get a window into us today.
5:22
Andy Goveia: And I love it.
5:22
Andy Goveia: The first episode wasn't enough.
5:24
Andy Goveia: A second window into the people who are doing their best to create this uh media moment for you every two weeks.
5:34
Ben Webb: It's gonna turn into okay, the 45-minute episodes are when they have special guests and the half-hour episodes are when they're just being weird.
5:39
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
5:40
Andy Goveia: Which, hey, if you like that, send us some more fan mail and we will register what we can.
5:47
Ben Webb: All right.
5:48
Ben Webb: So, first question for you, sir.
5:50
Ben Webb: All right.
5:51
Ben Webb: What moment this year reminded you exactly why you became a teacher?
5:55
Ben Webb: We are a couple months into school so far this year.
6:00
Ben Webb: What's one moment where you were like, yes, this is why I went into education.
6:05
Ben Webb: This is why I wanted to be a teacher.
6:06
Ben Webb: This is why I am still a teacher.
6:09
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
6:09
Andy Goveia: Um, I think at some point, I hope we do an outdoor education episode.
6:16
Andy Goveia: Metcalf has a phenomenal multi-grade outdoor education experience.
6:20
Andy Goveia: I had mine this year.
6:21
Andy Goveia: We went at the middle-ish of September when it was hot during the day and pretty cool and decent at night.
6:28
Andy Goveia: Um it was our last full day in the woods.
6:32
Andy Goveia: So for just a tiny bit of context, we go to Marine View State Park out in Leroy, Illinois, a 16 to 20-ish miles away from Bloomington Normal.
6:43
Andy Goveia: It's a lovely state park, free to enter, great resources, beautiful place.
6:48
Andy Goveia: It's our last full day there.
6:49
Andy Goveia: It's a Thursday of the experience, and we're on this hike.
6:52
Andy Goveia: And we take the kids over to an area they've never gotten to hike and explore before.
6:56
Andy Goveia: And we come on this walking path, we come to this bridge, and I with this hike, I there's three of us that go as teachers, and we take about half of the students-ish with us, and then we we trade out later.
7:10
Andy Goveia: But to make my very long setup as short as possible, we get to this bridge bridge, and my role every time is to be the troll at the bridge.
7:17
Andy Goveia: I'm the loudmouth that can yell, hey, come back.
7:20
Andy Goveia: Or if I hear someone, I can yell, we need help.
7:22
Andy Goveia: I'm the loudmouth.
7:24
Andy Goveia: And I live as the troll on the bridge during this hike.
7:27
Andy Goveia: But the reason this was my this my affirmation this year was hearing kids laughing in the woods 50, 100, 200 to 300 feet away from me, hiking, climbing trees, and knowing they were fine, that they were okay, and when they came back looking like muddy messes, the smiles on their faces and the gratitude of thank you for taking us on this hike, that that's that authentic gratitude of you were here, you helped create this moment for us.
8:07
Andy Goveia: Thank you.
8:07
Andy Goveia: This was awesome.
8:09
Andy Goveia: It just that was this year's mo I've had a lot of those moments this year, but that's the one that if I'm gonna go back to it and go, man, I this is why I do this.
8:18
Andy Goveia: It's a 13-year-old looking at you, grateful they got to climb a tree, and meaning they were grateful they got to climb that tree.
8:25
Ben Webb: What what age was that again?
8:26
Andy Goveia: This was eighth grade.
8:26
Andy Goveia: So we took eighth grade.
8:27
Andy Goveia: Eighth grade goes in the fall, seventh grade goes in the spring.
8:30
Ben Webb: And see, I I think there's a there's that distinction between like, okay, I teach high school versus middle school.
8:36
Ben Webb: And I think you talk to a high school teacher, they're like, oh, eighth graders.
8:38
Ben Webb: I can't I could never do eighth grade.
8:40
Ben Webb: And then I've I've heard the same thing for middle school teachers, like, oh, I can't.
8:43
Ben Webb: Once they hit ninth grade, I'm done.
8:44
Andy Goveia: I think something that may be a hot take for me, if this is the hot take festivist episode, you could not pay me enough to teach freshmen, believe it or not.
8:51
Andy Goveia: Surprising.
8:52
Andy Goveia: I I love my eighth graders.
8:54
Andy Goveia: And why I love teaching eighth grade is I have gotten to mold them and push them to this moment where they get to go be something that's next.
9:02
Andy Goveia: I think I would really struggle teaching kids that I have to bring them back in and remold them to send them on a three-year journey.
9:10
Andy Goveia: I get to be at the culmination of their journey in our building and getting to help them go to what's next is my jam.
9:18
Andy Goveia: I don't, I don't know that I would be as successful bringing them in.
9:23
Andy Goveia: What about you though?
9:24
Andy Goveia: What was let's let's dialogue this.
9:27
Andy Goveia: What about you?
9:27
Andy Goveia: What's what was your affirming this is why I do this?
9:30
Andy Goveia: What have you seen this year?
9:32
Ben Webb: So this year has been very different because I'll I I've got my classes, I've got my English classes, but then I've also got the theater program.
9:39
Ben Webb: And so this year I've taken on more of a technical director role where I'm just focused on lighting, set, sound.
9:47
Ben Webb: Like I am not artistic director for the shows.
9:50
Ben Webb: I'm not blocking them, and I'm really putting a lot to the people that are on our team who are really going to then direct a fall show, winter show, and a spring show.
9:59
Ben Webb: And so that's been really hard for me to like not be the one pulling the strings, giving up some of the control.
10:05
Ben Webb: Being the Uber marionette is the thing I love most about being a director.
10:10
Ben Webb: But this year, so the person who directed our fall show, which a musical, we're putting it forward as like, okay, we want to take this to our state festival.
10:20
Ben Webb: So this year, the director of the fall show, which I just was the technical director for, I got to come up with a cool set design.
10:28
Ben Webb: I got to train some new techies in their first year as like the head of their uh department.
10:33
Ben Webb: But the director is a former student of mine.
10:36
Andy Goveia: Oh, that's cool.
10:37
Ben Webb: So I'm getting to watch this director who graduated school here, went up to college up in Chicago, got his degree, and then moved back to town and and was like, Hey, do you want to be involved?
10:51
Ben Webb: And over the last couple of years, getting him ready and getting him like as the director.
10:56
Ben Webb: So it was very kind of why do I do this?
10:59
Ben Webb: It was like getting to watch that, where yes, it's a constant reminder of people always say, Oh, those that can't do teach.
11:10
Ben Webb: Well, in in many ways, if I'm doing it, then have they really learned?
11:14
Ben Webb: And so it's been kind of nice for me this year to kind of see that director take the helm, go through things, ask for like support and mentorship, and like what would you do?
11:24
Ben Webb: But then always putting it back to it's like, well, it's not about what I would do, it's what you were gonna do in this moment.
11:31
Ben Webb: And so it's kind of been fun to be the advisor and also every so often kind of go, yeah, it's not I don't have to make that decision.
11:38
Ben Webb: It's great.
11:40
Andy Goveia: That's awesome.
11:41
Andy Goveia: What a cool like it's teaching is like phases of the moon, right?
11:46
Andy Goveia: Things come in and out of fullness, and you have seasons where like you kind of just try the uber marionette, right?
11:53
Andy Goveia: Like where you are you have to be at the wheel of all the boats all at the same time, right?
11:58
Andy Goveia: But then there's seasons where you just get to kind of step back and just be like an echo and and a sounding board, and that's what a cool opportunity.
12:08
Ben Webb: Yeah.
12:09
Ben Webb: It's and I think you know, when you think about driver's ed, like you might be in the car, but I'm typically when I'm not directing, I'm usually in that passenger seat still.
12:18
Ben Webb: I've got that brake that I can hit if I'm really concerned or really worried.
12:22
Ben Webb: And this time it was I'm on the curb, I'm I'm on the sidewalk watching and waving, kind of giving giving moral support as they are the ones pulling and doing all the work.
12:34
Andy Goveia: That's amazing.
12:35
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
12:36
Ben Webb: So we've joked and laughed and cried about how different our schools are from any other place in the world.
12:44
Ben Webb: What is a 10-minute slice of your day like?
12:49
Andy Goveia: Well, which part of my day?
12:51
Ben Webb: Exactly.
12:51
Andy Goveia: So I was gonna say what 10 minutes you want.
12:55
Ben Webb: Because it changes every 10 minutes, right?
12:58
Andy Goveia: Well, I mean, what if I just use my day today?
13:00
Andy Goveia: And I'm gonna give it not a 10-minute slice, but like, here's what my day has been today.
13:05
Andy Goveia: Okay.
13:05
Andy Goveia: I showed up with my children, as I do, dropped them off, got in.
13:11
Andy Goveia: Uh, I had a student who got to their locker and then threw up in the trash can in the hallway.
13:16
Andy Goveia: So helped get them with someone walking to the nurse, got them to the nurse.
13:20
Andy Goveia: I had another student come up because they had a really rough night.
13:22
Andy Goveia: They needed someone to talk to, so I was talking to them.
13:24
Andy Goveia: And then I got to my desk.
13:26
Andy Goveia: I started printing things, making sure my sub plans for today were good to go.
13:30
Andy Goveia: One of the cool things you may not know is this is mine and Mr.
13:32
Andy Goveia: Webb's uh professional development plan this year.
13:35
Andy Goveia: So our work as tenured staff is this podcast and sharing our message, but back on track.
13:41
Andy Goveia: Um, so I finished my sub plans, made my copies for today.
13:44
Andy Goveia: Um, and then um, you may have heard in a previous episode, I won a classroom makeover.
13:49
Andy Goveia: So I'm in the work right now of finalizing that design.
13:52
Andy Goveia: I got interviewed by our local MPR station, WGLT 89.1 FM here on ISU's campus.
13:58
Andy Goveia: Um, got had that interview.
14:00
Andy Goveia: My clinical interns showed up.
14:02
Andy Goveia: I worked with them on they because they were gonna teach my morning classes.
14:05
Andy Goveia: So I walked them through what was planned, what they were gonna do.
14:09
Andy Goveia: They were gonna watch me teach, and they were gonna teach the second class, um, which I then left to come here to do this podcast.
14:15
Andy Goveia: And then I taught kids.
14:17
Andy Goveia: I had them for our SEL period, our win period.
14:19
Andy Goveia: I taught, and here I am.
14:20
Andy Goveia: And then after school, I'm gonna go back to my desk to get a couple things done.
14:24
Andy Goveia: Um, but that's just today.
14:27
Andy Goveia: I could hop to any other day and I could tell you what my Monday was like or my Tuesday.
14:31
Andy Goveia: There's just there's a lot of variety in the not teaching here.
14:37
Ben Webb: One of the things, and I'm hoping this gets you fired up.
14:40
Ben Webb: Yes.
14:40
Ben Webb: The one of the things about our schools is so we are connected to the university.
14:46
Ben Webb: We have the university system that is kind of our model.
14:49
Ben Webb: We have shared governance, we have committee work, we have the committee work that's being done at the college level in the unit office of the laboratory schools in our building.
14:59
Ben Webb: And then, yeah, in our buildings as well.
15:01
Ben Webb: So like there might be three levels of technology committees.
15:04
Ben Webb: There might be three levels of diversity, equity, and inclusion committees.
15:09
Ben Webb: And we've also got to fill that or put that into our schedules as well.
15:15
Andy Goveia: It's um I I want to preface what I'm about to say by you cannot necessarily compare the work we do to the work done by educators in other schools because our missions and our charges are somewhat different.
15:28
Andy Goveia: Yes.
15:29
Andy Goveia: There are a lot of similarities in instruction and planning and grading and assessment and working with kids constant.
15:36
Andy Goveia: There are other parts in any other school here that are different.
15:39
Andy Goveia: And this is one of our weird parts of our system.
15:41
Andy Goveia: Um, so uh what we're gonna say, maybe what I might what I'm about to say, I do not want anyone listening to construe that I am in any way being dismissive of the challenges and the real lived experiences of any other school anywhere else.
15:55
Andy Goveia: I want to be very clear that what I'm about to say is not a criticism or dismissive of what anyone else does.
16:01
Andy Goveia: There's just because of our four-part mission, we have a couple other pieces we are considered to be expected to be fulfilling.
16:08
Andy Goveia: And sometimes, I think I've said this in other conversations I've had with people, sometimes the the other parts of our mission are what kind of get us fired up more than others.
16:20
Andy Goveia: Teaching kids is great.
16:22
Andy Goveia: If you could just pay me to teach kids all day, great.
16:25
Andy Goveia: Uh, but because of who we are, we also should be working with clinical students and pre-service teachers.
16:32
Andy Goveia: We should be contributing to the work of the university, of the college, of our schools, and considering research opportunities.
16:37
Andy Goveia: And so those three pieces oftentimes are what create the challenges in what we do.
16:45
Andy Goveia: So you the 10-minute slices on the days where a lot of those three pieces are happening, those are the those are the days that are are harder because you've got to balance either a hard no in terms of policy or you have to go through different meetings, different groups to talk to, just to get the idea of an idea started.
17:10
Andy Goveia: And sometimes that is the work that that 10-minute slice of the other three parts of our mission that get grievancy and not not in the literal sense of grievancy, but like the parts that you sometimes you walk away frustrated by.
17:27
Andy Goveia: It's those other pieces.
17:29
Andy Goveia: Very rarely is my teaching the thing that creates the dissonance for me in my day.
17:35
Ben Webb: So, okay, I agree with so much of what you said.
17:39
Ben Webb: So, and let me please go with me on this short, somewhat medium walk.
17:44
Ben Webb: So, like when I'm in show season, like I will go home after this rehearsal, I will finish directing, we'll be like a couple of days from opening, and I will start replaying in my dreams, in my sleep.
17:54
Ben Webb: I will be replaying the rehearsal and I will be like thinking about it.
17:57
Ben Webb: And part of that dream is then, well, I should have done this or I could have done this.
18:01
Ben Webb: What do I have to do tomorrow?
18:02
Ben Webb: So it's like I can't turn my brain off.
18:04
Ben Webb: Yeah.
18:05
Ben Webb: And I'm and then I wake up the next morning, I'm not rested because I'm thinking about those things.
18:09
Ben Webb: Uh we're at the point in the school year right now where I will I will stress about like how my students will do on a test or on a project or if they're doing all right.
18:21
Ben Webb: But I'm at the point right now in this this part of the year where it's not the students, as in my ninth graders or my seniors, it's the college students that are teaching for the first time.
18:31
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
18:32
Ben Webb: And I'm at that point where it's like I'm looking at what their plan is, and I'm like, I know how they are going to do the plan, but they haven't done the plan.
18:39
Ben Webb: And and again, that uber marionette comes back in, like, okay, if I can just like I just want to help, but again, I have to have hands off.
18:45
Ben Webb: I have to give them the chance to either be awesome and succeed, or learn from doing it the first time and then saying they're gonna do it again.
18:54
Ben Webb: Yeah.
18:55
Ben Webb: So all right.
18:57
Ben Webb: Um, similarly, on that same kind of like vein of like not grievancy, but like yeah, the parts that like wear you down or even like just kind of like they tug on your heartstrings.
19:06
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
19:07
Ben Webb: What is something that everyone assumes is easy about teaching?
19:11
Ben Webb: For those of you who are not in person, you just got to see the greatest eye roll and brow pinch ever.
19:24
Andy Goveia: I think that there is a misconception that teaching is not tiring.
19:27
Andy Goveia: And I think the I mean, you see the all the memes and whatnot, teachers or the the pseudo-studies that maybe are real studies, I've never dug into them.
19:37
Andy Goveia: That you teachers have to make over a hundred decisions a day.
19:39
Andy Goveia: And decision fatigue.
19:41
Andy Goveia: We know decision fatigue is real, right?
19:42
Andy Goveia: I I there have some days I just go home tired because I was managing a group of kids trying to keep them from talking over someone else, at the same time noticing a kid playing a game on a Chromebook and going to shut down the Chromebook while at the same time trying to answer.
19:59
Andy Goveia: Answer a really detailed content question about what we're talking about in class while also trying to keep two kids from talking to each other who will not stop talking to each other.
20:07
Andy Goveia: Like there is the plates in the air metaphor, right?
20:10
Andy Goveia: Like there are so many spinning plates that some days I sit down at the end of the day at three or four and I just mentally I can't make another decision because my brain, I'm not physically tired.
20:22
Andy Goveia: I am mentally unable to make a decision.
20:26
Andy Goveia: Um teaching is tiring.
20:29
Andy Goveia: If you are, if you are actively teaching, it is tiring.
20:33
Andy Goveia: Um, and I again I am not being dismissive of manual physical jobs.
20:41
Andy Goveia: I am not being dismissive of really tough work other people do.
20:44
Andy Goveia: I just think that there are some pockets of society that think teaching is easy.
20:47
Andy Goveia: They think I sit, you sit behind a desk all day telling kids to sit down and do the reading, and we go home and sit around and do nothing.
20:58
Andy Goveia: Which happens some days.
21:00
Ben Webb: Some days out of necessity.
21:02
Ben Webb: And I think a lot of people they will look at well, you work from this time to this time, but when has someone who is teaching like the common misconception is how like don't bring work home.
21:18
Andy Goveia: Yeah, that's hard.
21:19
Andy Goveia: Um, I have 101 students I actively assess and give feedback for.
21:25
Andy Goveia: Some days you have to take work home, just so you don't feel like you're drowning the next day at work.
21:31
Andy Goveia: Um, you said you set me off.
21:33
Andy Goveia: Here you go.
21:34
Andy Goveia: You wanted to get me fired up.
21:34
Andy Goveia: Misconception, you only work during the school year.
21:39
Andy Goveia: I ask my wife.
21:43
Andy Goveia: I am good of the, let's just call summer 80-ish days.
21:49
Andy Goveia: There's let's say there's 80 to 85 days of summer, right?
21:52
Andy Goveia: I'm good at staying away from school about 30 to 40 of those days.
21:58
Andy Goveia: Now I don't physically come in half of my summer.
22:00
Andy Goveia: The next piece of fan mail is going to be a correction.
22:03
Andy Goveia: Actually, my wife's saying it's more like 10 days.
22:05
Andy Goveia: Um, whatever.
22:07
Andy Goveia: That's fine.
22:08
Andy Goveia: Um there are seasons of summer where I am either making sure my something in my room is cleaned up, ready to go.
22:14
Andy Goveia: I have an idea, something I'm working on, I'm doing summer professional development, I'm reading something for school, I'm coming in to do work because there's various committees that occur and various summer initiatives that happen.
22:26
Andy Goveia: Um and in some states, there are teachers around this country that they are expected to do a lot of professional development over the summer because that's the only time their district will support them getting professional development.
22:37
Andy Goveia: And so there's a very real, while yes, I am compensated for nine and a half months of required in-person physical presence to do my job.
22:48
Andy Goveia: There is two and a half months of the year where it is not just me going to Disney World, enjoying myself, which I did.
22:56
Andy Goveia: I mean, I went to Disney World this summer, but that's not what I'm doing all summer.
23:01
Andy Goveia: Like that was that my vacation to Disney World was one week of my summer.
23:05
Andy Goveia: And even then, I was fielding texts and emails about school because it was the end of July, beginning of August.
23:14
unknown: Yeah.
23:15
Andy Goveia: The job teaching is a year-round identity.
23:20
Andy Goveia: And I think that might be the misconception some pockets of culture in this country miss the job is nine and a half months.
23:29
Andy Goveia: The physical attendance of work is nine and a half months.
23:32
Andy Goveia: The identity and the pressure and the self-driven issues that come with being a teacher, that's a 12-month job.
23:42
Andy Goveia: You don't just suddenly give up your classroom and your ideas and your wants and curiosities.
23:49
Andy Goveia: Those don't just disappear for two and a half months.
23:51
Andy Goveia: You don't just turn off that part of your brain.
23:55
Ben Webb: You can't.
23:56
Ben Webb: You can't.
23:57
Ben Webb: And I think so, and we're in a unique place because we work with young teachers who are starting their career.
24:04
Ben Webb: Do you see them have that moment where the light bulb clicks of like, oh, this is a lot of work?
24:11
Andy Goveia: Yeah, it's always like the middle-ish of my clinical experiences when I have them for semesters, where they go, wow, like what you have to do day to day is so much more than I thought.
24:21
Andy Goveia: And like I can look at them and go, I've been doing this for 13 years.
24:24
Andy Goveia: I know how to balance it for the most part.
24:26
Andy Goveia: I know how to strategically plan out my week to get all the pieces taken care of.
24:32
Andy Goveia: But yeah, it it is there's so many things that can go into an average week.
24:39
Andy Goveia: And I'll take, take the three other pillars out of it.
24:41
Andy Goveia: I'm just talking, I'll just talk about the teaching, just to make sure the teaching side, 85% of our job, right?
24:47
Andy Goveia: Teaching, just to make sure that the teaching stuff happens, that the assessment happens, that feedback is happening, that I'm prepared, uh, mentally responding to parents, engaging with students.
24:57
Andy Goveia: That, even just scheduling that out, can take a lot of time and balance.
25:02
Andy Goveia: And so when you work with those early-on educators in that pre-service role, they have those aha moments, and you go, I know I can sometimes make it look easy.
25:12
Andy Goveia: It but that's because I've learned how to do it.
25:17
Ben Webb: So similar frustration, but at the same time, like just kind of curious.
25:24
Ben Webb: What would you change overnight if teachers designed school from scratch?
25:29
Ben Webb: What would make the cut?
25:30
Ben Webb: What would you keep?
25:32
Ben Webb: And what would you change?
25:36
Andy Goveia: So you're so okay.
25:37
Andy Goveia: I'm going to assume budget doesn't matter.
25:40
Ben Webb: Oh, I've got a budget question.
25:41
Andy Goveia: Okay, so okay.
25:42
Andy Goveia: So within my current construct or just generically?
25:44
Ben Webb: Generically.
25:44
Ben Webb: You if you are the all-powerful, you get to make school look the way it should be, how you envision it.
25:52
Ben Webb: Like create your utopian school.
25:56
Ben Webb: What would that look like?
26:01
Andy Goveia: Class sizes capped at 20.
26:04
Ben Webb: Okay.
26:04
Ben Webb: I'm I'm gonna go futurist on this.
26:08
Ben Webb: Class sizes are capped, but availability to enter into that classroom is limitless.
26:15
Andy Goveia: Yes.
26:16
Andy Goveia: I can go for that.
26:17
Andy Goveia: I can go for that.
26:19
Andy Goveia: Um I think there are some classes maybe that have to have more because of the function of what they are.
26:25
Andy Goveia: Fine.
26:26
Ben Webb: I would just argue that, you know, one of the things that I learned coming out of COVID learning is anyone should and can access my kind my content.
26:35
Ben Webb: Yes.
26:36
Ben Webb: So if technology would make it so that anyone could get an education from Educator X because they're really good at this concept, this one unit or this one lesson, why not make that available?
26:51
Andy Goveia: Love that.
26:52
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
26:53
Andy Goveia: I would also, because of the uniqueness of my job, I would make the argument that every classroom in this country should have the opportunity to have pre-service teachers visit and be a part of something in your classroom.
27:04
Andy Goveia: Um, getting to pass along what you have learned.
27:07
Andy Goveia: It's the Yoda, right?
27:08
Andy Goveia: To quote Yoda, pass on what you have learned, right?
27:12
Andy Goveia: I think getting every teacher having a chance and and future teachers having the chance to see every classroom, I think is so powerful.
27:20
Ben Webb: We are what they grow beyond.
27:24
Andy Goveia: Yes.
27:24
Andy Goveia: Once again, Yoda.
27:26
Andy Goveia: Um folly, right?
27:29
Andy Goveia: Teach them folly, success, right?
27:31
Andy Goveia: Loss.
27:32
Andy Goveia: Um, that clip just came through my TikTok the other day.
27:35
Andy Goveia: Um I I mean the I mean the one thing I would change is I would make it that we actually fully fund education.
27:43
Andy Goveia: I like I've said it on a couple times now, I'm going through a really cool process where I'm got a good chunk of money to fix my make not fix my room, make my room something cool.
27:53
Andy Goveia: Every single classroom in this country should look cool and up to date and clean and new and fresh.
27:58
Andy Goveia: And that only happens with the right amount of investment.
28:01
Andy Goveia: And take the physical side out of it, there shouldn't be schools with lead pipes anymore.
28:07
Andy Goveia: There shouldn't be schools with asbestos in them anymore.
28:10
Andy Goveia: Like we should American schools should look and feel like they are leading the way.
28:16
Andy Goveia: And we don't this country historically, systemically, does not fund education that way.
28:23
Ben Webb: It is interesting how you can tell from the outside of a building whether it's a school.
28:29
Ben Webb: Because again, they are designed very similar to not the most innovative or the most um fancy new buildings, so much as they are the very much built like a prison.
28:43
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
28:44
Andy Goveia: That's a shame.
28:45
Andy Goveia: The systemization of education in this country has led to that somewhat that we've see a utilitarian function, I think is the word I'm going for.
28:54
Andy Goveia: Of yeah, we know what a school needs to look like because that's what a school looks like.
28:57
Andy Goveia: And given our setting, I would always challenge people to go, well, what could a school look like?
29:01
Andy Goveia: What should what could it look like?
29:03
Andy Goveia: And I think actually I will add this on more outdoor space.
29:06
Andy Goveia: The the power of having outdoor space for learning and just relaxation and play.
29:12
Andy Goveia: Also huge and more recess.
29:13
Andy Goveia: I would give schools more recess, more time to just let kids play.
29:17
Andy Goveia: Even I would even make the argument at the high school secondary level, kids should have time to just chill and be without it being called a study hall.
29:29
Andy Goveia: Yes.
29:29
Andy Goveia: Or a supervised support time.
29:31
Andy Goveia: Like give kids a 20-minute break somewhere to just let them hang with their friends, have a coke or a snack, and just be a person.
29:44
Ben Webb: And that's one of the things I think we have.
29:46
Ben Webb: So we have open campus, yeah, but that also requires there to be that time built into their schedule where they can actually go someplace and do something.
29:55
Ben Webb: Yes.
29:56
Ben Webb: So what we then have is we have kids who go from 7 a.m.
30:01
Ben Webb: all the way through with no breaks, and yet they have open campus where if they had the time, they could actually go down the street and get a soda.
30:09
Ben Webb: Yes.
30:09
Ben Webb: They could go across the street and go to the library.
30:13
Ben Webb: They could just sit in the grass and enjoy the outdoors a little bit.
30:16
Ben Webb: But because there's no time built into that schedule, it's like, well, you have open campus, but you can't use it.
30:24
Andy Goveia: There's there's it's a your schedule and your structure show your values, right?
30:28
Andy Goveia: And our schools, because of our reputation, we do have schedules and structures currently that do prioritize making sure students are learning and successful and have every opportunity for that learning and success.
30:41
Andy Goveia: It just comes down to, and again, this is me simply talking about what I would do.
30:46
Andy Goveia: I am not being critical of our current system whatsoever.
30:51
Andy Goveia: I'm not trying to be critical.
30:52
Andy Goveia: I just think that anytime we can create space for kids to be kids, whether they're four or they're on the verge of adulthood, there's power in that that I think actually would lead to better outcomes for students.
31:04
Ben Webb: So you alluded to it.
31:05
Ben Webb: If money wasn't the barrier, yes.
31:08
Ben Webb: What would your, let's just say, not even like, what would school look like?
31:13
Ben Webb: Because I could easily say, all right, you give me X number of millions of dollars, this is how I would build the school of the future, and I would love that.
31:22
Ben Webb: But if there was a blank check specifically for you and your classroom and your teaching without budget or policy getting in the way, those kind of barriers, what would you pilot tomorrow?
31:36
Ben Webb: What would be the thing you try?
31:38
Ben Webb: What would be the experiment that you would want to test?
31:41
Andy Goveia: I take kids places to do learning straight up.
31:44
Andy Goveia: When we're learning about civics and government, we're gonna be in DC doing that learning.
31:48
Andy Goveia: If we're gonna learn about the civil rights movement, I'm taking you to Selma, Alabama.
31:53
Andy Goveia: We're gonna learn about westward expansion, let's take a bus trip and let's trail the places where indigenous people were forcibly moved across.
32:04
Andy Goveia: If we're talking like I we're uh I just talked about today the Tulsa massacre of 1921.
32:10
Andy Goveia: Um let's go to Tulsa.
32:15
Andy Goveia: Let's go find where the Greenwood district was.
32:17
Andy Goveia: Like, if money's not an option, I'm taking kids and we're going to where this history and these concepts actually play out.
32:24
Andy Goveia: And we would do the learning there.
32:26
Andy Goveia: Now, I understand there are so many logistics to that and parent trust and right.
32:31
Andy Goveia: But if money's not an option, we're going.
32:34
Andy Goveia: We're gonna go to these places.
32:35
Andy Goveia: Field trips are phenomenal.
32:36
Andy Goveia: Experiential learning in the community, powerful.
32:40
Andy Goveia: Um, my DC trip I do is why I lean into this idea of like, let's go these places.
32:44
Andy Goveia: Like, you want to talk, you want to talk about navigating the Oregon Trail.
32:48
Andy Goveia: Let's drive the Oregon Trail.
32:50
Andy Goveia: Again, there's just you can go to these places.
32:54
Andy Goveia: And if that that is what I would, that's what I would do.
32:57
Andy Goveia: We would go and learn.
32:58
Andy Goveia: I love it.
32:59
Andy Goveia: Not just we go and learn.
33:01
Ben Webb: Also, notice how you started by saying like these are the misconceptions, and like you're talking about like, oh well, we only work from this time to this time.
33:10
Ben Webb: Common misconception.
33:12
Ben Webb: When you are going on a field trip, it's vacation for you.
33:16
Ben Webb: It's not.
33:17
Andy Goveia: Oh my gosh.
33:19
Ben Webb: Any teacher who's ever taken a class trip in town out of town is not vacation.
33:25
Andy Goveia: DC, my DC trip every other summer is not a vacation.
33:29
Andy Goveia: Now, do I get an immense amount of joy out of it?
33:33
Andy Goveia: Yes.
33:34
Andy Goveia: Do I get to learn a lot?
33:36
Andy Goveia: Yes.
33:37
Andy Goveia: But am I also constantly for 24 hours a day responsible in this summer's case for the lives of 34 students?
33:45
Andy Goveia: Yes.
33:46
Andy Goveia: I have to be aware of where they are and that they're sleeping and that they're eating.
33:50
Andy Goveia: And if there's an issue at one o'clock in the morning, I have to be ready to help them and support them.
33:55
Andy Goveia: So yes.
33:56
Andy Goveia: Did I this summer get to go and hang out in DC for a couple days and get to walk around some museums and do some really cool learning?
34:05
Andy Goveia: Yes.
34:05
Andy Goveia: But in between all of those moments where I had 10 minutes to walk around a museum, I'm helping this kid, helping this kid, doing this, doing this, doing this.
34:13
Andy Goveia: So field trips are not.
34:14
Andy Goveia: You got me fired up again.
34:15
Andy Goveia: Field trips are not a cakewalk.
34:17
Andy Goveia: No.
34:17
Andy Goveia: And and some no, I will say no, hold on.
34:20
Andy Goveia: I'm gonna I am gonna qualify.
34:22
Andy Goveia: Some can be.
34:23
Andy Goveia: Some can be really very easy.
34:28
Andy Goveia: Curated.
34:29
Andy Goveia: And less stressful to pull off.
34:34
Ben Webb: I I hear what you're saying.
34:37
Ben Webb: However, I would also, one of the things I was super blessed to do or have done in the past is not just local field trips, but international.
34:46
Ben Webb: Oh, I see.
34:47
Ben Webb: I'd love to do international.
34:48
Ben Webb: And those are a beast, even um, even outside of that.
34:53
Ben Webb: And you get so much support when you go through an agency that does shout out to World Strides.
34:58
Ben Webb: Yeah.
34:58
Ben Webb: I have gotten to take kids to the UK.
35:01
Ben Webb: Yeah.
35:01
Ben Webb: Used to take kids to Scotland for the fringe festival.
35:04
Ben Webb: That's right.
35:04
Ben Webb: I remember that.
35:05
Ben Webb: And so like taking a show international or even just taking the Spanish club down to Ecuador was fortunate to go on a Fulbright to Mexico, not with kids, but as myself.
35:16
Ben Webb: And then, like, if you think taking if if if anyone ever says that taking a field trip is easy, then I think they're volunteering to be a chaperone.
35:29
Andy Goveia: Yes.
35:29
Andy Goveia: And like, shout out to the music people in our schools.
35:32
Andy Goveia: Cause like they do these these trips, the band orchestra choir do these trips.
35:37
Andy Goveia: Regularly.
35:38
Andy Goveia: Regularly.
35:39
Andy Goveia: Those are not logistical, those are logistical nightmares sometimes.
35:44
Andy Goveia: And so yeah, I yeah, field trips.
35:46
Andy Goveia: I so yeah, it's it would be the greatest blessing of our of our education system if we could get kids to all of these places to have that real authentic learning in the places, in my case, where history has happened or where these concepts are playing out in real time.
36:00
Andy Goveia: But for any kind of student or person just to get to go and experience those opportunities, they are not necessarily the cakewalk that some might say that they are.
36:11
Ben Webb: Yep.
36:12
Andy Goveia: Even if you do go through a company like I've I've been fortunate too, where they do handle a good chunk of the planning, they don't handle the people.
36:22
Ben Webb: And that's because that's you know those people.
36:25
Ben Webb: Those are your people.
36:26
Ben Webb: They're my people.
36:27
Ben Webb: And they will listen to you, especially if you're the troll on the bridge.
36:29
Ben Webb: They will listen to you when they are told, hey, you need to stay within 10 feet of me as we're going down the Royal Mile towards Edinburgh Castle.
36:38
Ben Webb: If you can't see me, then you better come back this direction.
36:42
Ben Webb: Also, I'm the weirdo wearing this weird, obnoxious hat in the most crowded place in the UK at after this event.
36:50
Ben Webb: So, and we could take it, we could spend so much time to go.
36:54
Andy Goveia: There's gotta be an episode on field trips.
36:56
unknown: Yeah.
36:57
Andy Goveia: Down the pipeline, travel, yeah, educational travel.
37:01
Andy Goveia: Well, let me can I let me let me push back on not push back on something you said, let me engage you on something you have said.
37:07
Andy Goveia: That what is the what is your biggest frustration with people's can you be more specific?
37:17
Andy Goveia: What is your biggest frustration with people's misconceptions about the work that educators do?
37:23
Andy Goveia: Like what is the thing that you're like, I wish people would just let this piece go?
37:28
Ben Webb: I so bear with me again.
37:31
Ben Webb: This is this is not just education, this is also outside of the realm of education.
37:36
Ben Webb: So we often in SpeechCom talk about a field of experience.
37:41
Ben Webb: So, like what my understanding is and where there is shared understanding, there's an overlap between my field of experience and your field of experience.
37:50
Ben Webb: It's one of the first units we do in oral communication.
37:52
Ben Webb: So, my biggest frustration, mostly with education, but then in other places, is that we take our experience that we had in high school in education, and we force that view, that perspective, that kind of either jaded glass or rose-painted glass, we force that upon what we think our students are going through.
38:19
Ben Webb: And we have to remember the world that they are existing in right now, so different from when we were in school.
38:28
Ben Webb: My biggest frustration, and I see this a bunch with um with college students who are coming over, is like, well, this is what I liked when I was in school, or this is what it was like when I was when I was in school.
38:39
Ben Webb: And it's like, it's been a while.
38:42
Ben Webb: For for them, it might only be a couple of years, but I think with the ones that you are then seeing in uh elementary and middle school, like it's been a while.
38:52
Ben Webb: Schools change.
38:54
Ben Webb: And I think new math.
38:56
Ben Webb: There's oh so, like, if we're gonna say best practice, up-to-date best practice, not what worked for us 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
39:08
Ben Webb: And I think my biggest frustration then with that is because we are taking what we experienced, what we liked, what we didn't like, the teachers we liked, the experiences we did or didn't like, we then force that upon what education isn't now, as opposed to asking what can education be?
39:26
Ben Webb: And what is it currently?
39:28
Ben Webb: Because I think so much of it is we kind of pit it into this, this is what it's gonna operate as, this is what it has to be.
39:35
Ben Webb: Yeah.
39:35
Ben Webb: And then it's almost like we're forcing more barriers than have than have to be.
39:40
Ben Webb: Um, you were just talking about like experiences and going places to do stuff.
39:45
Ben Webb: We often say, well, we can't do that because, and then we come up with like these are the barriers, these are the restrictions, these are someone in some office across the way tells you you can't.
39:56
Ben Webb: Yeah.
39:56
Ben Webb: So like we don't ask what is the benefit.
39:59
Ben Webb: Or why is it so important?
40:02
Ben Webb: Instead, we say, well, these are the stopping blocks.
40:05
Ben Webb: And we don't creatively think, how can we then alleviate those?
40:09
Ben Webb: And I think sometimes it's like the people who are slamming on the brakes or saying you can't do it, they don't even know like what is existing in that classroom right now.
40:19
Ben Webb: They are, again, like you said, they're in a different office, some other place.
40:24
Ben Webb: And it's like, well, you can't do that for and then some random reason.
40:29
Ben Webb: It's like, well, no, I'm a teacher.
40:31
Ben Webb: I thought about all of these steps.
40:32
Ben Webb: I've got, I've got solutions to the no, we can't do that.
40:35
Ben Webb: Yeah.
40:35
Ben Webb: But I've but I'm a teacher.
40:37
Ben Webb: I problem solve for a living.
40:40
Andy Goveia: And yet it's still kind of like you know, we run into that, we, and this is the royal we here with lab schools.
40:46
Andy Goveia: We run into this issue so much here being a part of university that we are P12 people going, we want to do this P12 thing.
40:54
Andy Goveia: And you have a higher ed bureaucracy and system of operation that doesn't always understand why a P12 initiative or case or whatever might need a slightly different understanding and why sometimes rigidity can get in the way of progress in that way.
41:15
Ben Webb: I love the wording there.
41:16
Ben Webb: So I think part of what I would always push then is so you're a problem solver, you are thinking outside of the box.
41:25
Ben Webb: Okay, cross your T's, make sure you're doing what's best for your kids, and also make sure that you are being even more proactive than you think necessary, because then when you come across those barriers, you've got momentum.
41:40
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
41:40
Ben Webb: You've got people who are on your team saying, Yeah, you know, you need to have this exception for this rule.
41:45
Ben Webb: And if it's happening early enough in that process, they're gonna say yes.
41:50
Ben Webb: Yeah.
41:50
Ben Webb: Or they're gonna say, Well, I don't know.
41:52
Ben Webb: And then you've got that group of numbers and that group of people who are then, no, this is why it's so beneficial and why it's so necessary.
41:59
Ben Webb: You get parents who are like, Well, yeah, I'm gonna sign off on that.
42:02
Ben Webb: I want to help with that.
42:04
Ben Webb: Same thing with alumni.
42:05
Ben Webb: You're like, oh, yeah, when we were there, we got to do this and this and this.
42:08
Ben Webb: So it's almost like you kind of have to rally the troops.
42:10
Ben Webb: But yeah, that's that's my biggest positive frustration, which is people always say, Well, this is how it was.
42:20
Ben Webb: And that's coming from a like I teach in a building that is they hold their traditions so close.
42:27
Ben Webb: And it's it's challenging sometimes because it's like, well, if you want to change those traditions, it's gonna take time, or if you're gonna challenge those traditions, it's gonna take time, but also it can be done.
42:38
Ben Webb: Yeah.
42:38
Ben Webb: So kind of a closing question.
42:42
Ben Webb: Yeah.
42:43
Ben Webb: If you are ready for it.
42:45
Andy Goveia: I'm always ready, I think.
42:49
Ben Webb: Most of the time.
42:50
Ben Webb: What is one widely accepted practice in education that you think is actually holding students back?
42:59
Ben Webb: What is one thing that you think we are doing that we just kind of take for granted but in actuality it might be holding the kids back?
43:30
Andy Goveia: That's a very multi-layered question.
43:34
Andy Goveia: Do you have an answer to this question right off the top of your head?
43:38
Ben Webb: I have an idea of I have I have the inkling of uh an answer on this one.
43:42
Ben Webb: Alright, what's your inkling?
43:43
Ben Webb: Because I'm It kind of fits with my last my last answer.
43:47
Ben Webb: Okay.
43:48
Ben Webb: Are we grading people and students the same way that we did for decades ago?
43:57
Andy Goveia: Are we grading similarly?
44:00
Andy Goveia: Have has our different grading challenges and pushes re-taken us back to the point of contention and frustration, which led to different grading?
44:09
Andy Goveia: You're kind of saying, because you and I both were in a standards-based environment.
44:13
Andy Goveia: Has this movement into standards-based grading and the way we're implementing and working through it currently potentially actually bringing up the issues that it attempted to solve?
44:22
Andy Goveia: Ooh, that's I was I was actually going to say doing any kind of formal grading is kind of before I can even make the case middle school shouldn't necessarily be graded, but like formal grades for anything under like fifth grade.
44:42
Andy Goveia: I think actually putting grades on five-year-olds development.
44:47
Andy Goveia: I think my I can't articulate it.
44:54
Andy Goveia: I think I'm with you that grading might be the thing.
44:57
Ben Webb: And I only say that, like, I is maybe I have been doing SBG now for about 13 years.
45:03
Ben Webb: That's my entire career.
45:04
Ben Webb: And so, like, it's not even a dig at standards-based grading so much as it is when I first did it, I was having conversations with kids and it turned into the uh I would I would push on it, but I would like the conversations were how do I improve on this skill?
45:23
Ben Webb: Yeah.
45:24
Ben Webb: But in the past four years post-pandemic, post-pandemic, almost all of those conversations have turned back into how do I improve my grade?
45:35
Ben Webb: How do I improve my grade?
45:36
Ben Webb: Yeah.
45:37
Ben Webb: And I don't know, I don't know what did it.
45:39
Ben Webb: I don't know what forced that thing to the pendulum to kind of swing back.
45:44
Andy Goveia: An interesting observation because I have ran into just a little bit of that too.
45:51
Andy Goveia: That it's no longer about okay, what will help me move move myself?
45:54
Andy Goveia: Well, it the conversation really is how do I bring up my grade?
45:58
Andy Goveia: And like we're in a situation where like there is no overall grade in in seventh and eighth grade.
46:02
Andy Goveia: They don't get an an a letter grade or even an overall number based uh score.
46:08
Andy Goveia: It's all individual standards, right?
46:10
Andy Goveia: The conversation though is seeping back to how do I improve my grade.
46:14
Andy Goveia: And I wonder, I want I just wonder.
46:17
Andy Goveia: Yeah, that's a great reflection.
46:19
Ben Webb: I don't have an answer on it.
46:20
Ben Webb: And I and I don't have much of a criticism because I I every couple of years I adjust my scale, I adjust my language, I'm using different standards that I work with my department on.
46:31
Ben Webb: So like yeah, I'm still communicating.
46:33
Ben Webb: This is how you are at this skill.
46:35
Ben Webb: Yeah.
46:35
Ben Webb: But the conversation that comes back is or it's or here's the other focus conversation.
46:41
Ben Webb: It's a score conversation.
46:42
Ben Webb: Can I redo this?
46:44
Ben Webb: More often than not, before I've even given a kid a grade, they are asking, what can I do to redo this score?
46:51
Ben Webb: Living in the revision process as some confidence in your work.
46:56
Ben Webb: Yeah.
46:56
Ben Webb: I'm glad they understand that they can improve and they can do better.
47:01
Ben Webb: But yeah, sometimes it's they hand it in and they're already admitting defeat.
47:06
Andy Goveia: Oh, we're we're seeing at the middle level a little bit of, oh, I know I can retake it later.
47:11
Andy Goveia: I'm just gonna give you what I've got.
47:12
Andy Goveia: And a lot of times I'll look at some kids and go, I'd rather you turn it in day late and it'd be your the best work you can do than to turn it in now and just have to go back and fix it later.
47:24
Andy Goveia: Like that, I yeah, it's grading.
47:29
Ben Webb: I'm sure it's gonna be something else the next time we do a hot take episode.
47:32
Ben Webb: Yeah, right now it's grading.
47:33
Andy Goveia: Yeah, yeah.
47:34
Andy Goveia: And again, I think to reiterate what you said, we're not being critical of our systems.
47:38
Andy Goveia: It well we say this, it's just the philosophy and nature of assessment and grading.
47:44
Andy Goveia: Is yeah.
47:45
Ben Webb: Well, and and going full circle, like so, like this is something that we've been doing for a long time.
47:51
Ben Webb: Our teachers are have been doing for a long time.
47:53
Ben Webb: They've they've developed their own nuances, they've understood it better, they've found ways to like ebb and flow with it.
48:00
Ben Webb: So, like, it's not like we necessarily have started changing how we're explaining SBG to our kids.
48:09
Ben Webb: And we've also we've done a we've made some like so, for instance, when I do open house, I show my grading scale and I explain this is why mathematically on a 4.0 GPA scale with A through F, I'm gonna give the students a five-level A plus opportunity so that the math can make sure that the students who go above and beyond have that safety net, so it's not so it so it can still equate to a 4.0.
48:34
Ben Webb: So I'm even having those conversations with parents.
48:37
Andy Goveia: And parents largely get it.
48:39
Andy Goveia: I think so.
48:40
Andy Goveia: It seems the tide is turned with that.
48:42
Ben Webb: So it's almost like all of those different pieces are now lined up, and yet the conversations quickly come back to that grade.
48:52
Andy Goveia: Something one grade.
48:53
Andy Goveia: Something changed in the pandemic.
48:55
Andy Goveia: And I actually had a Zoom call with um a fellow history teacher a couple weeks ago.
49:00
Andy Goveia: We talked about this for about 45 minutes.
49:02
Andy Goveia: Just coming out of the pandemic, something has changed in the nature of how students process and engage with content and learning, especially in the disciplines like we're in, we're disciplinary based, right?
49:13
Andy Goveia: I there's just been a shift in how students engage with it.
49:17
Andy Goveia: And it's hard to say if we'll come out of that shift, if it's just like this group of kids that like their their early elementary/slash middle school experience was affected by COVID.
49:32
Andy Goveia: And so will we come out of that or not?
49:36
Andy Goveia: It's it's such an interesting phenomenon that we're kind of seeing right now.
49:43
Ben Webb: Yep.
49:43
Ben Webb: So those are my hot take questions.
49:48
Ben Webb: It was fun to see you kind of get fired up.
49:50
Ben Webb: This is I love this, and I think this will also be kind of a nice way to kind of continue to explore okay, perspective one, perspective two, yeah.
49:59
Ben Webb: Knowing our audience, there's a lot of different perspectives out there.
50:03
Ben Webb: I'm excited to bring in some of those outside voices too.
50:06
Ben Webb: Yeah, because at least I don't know about your building.
50:10
Ben Webb: My building is not uniform and we are all on the same page with these types of philosophies and such.
50:16
Ben Webb: And I um I value that.
50:18
Andy Goveia: Yeah.
50:18
Andy Goveia: Well, yeah, we're the same way.
50:20
Andy Goveia: There's well, I think, I think the one singular thing that unites probably both of our buildings is that we sincerely give a crap about our kids.
50:29
Andy Goveia: And I say that word, like we genuinely do care about the students and their success and their well-being.
50:34
Andy Goveia: How we get to that is where the diversity of thought occurs.
50:38
Andy Goveia: That we, I think we all would agree kids should be healthy, safe, seen, and feel like they belong.
50:44
Andy Goveia: We all agree with that no matter what age they are.
50:46
Andy Goveia: The ways we get to that is where the diversity of thought happens.
50:49
Andy Goveia: And I think that would that's a really cool episode in the future.
50:54
Andy Goveia: As we add as we add to the list of episode ideas, which is what happens every time we get together.
50:59
Ben Webb: We have more ideas.
51:01
Andy Goveia: We create three to four episodes.
51:03
Ben Webb: But I but that's okay.
51:04
Andy Goveia: I'll be around for it.
51:05
Andy Goveia: We're we're here for at least this year.
51:08
Ben Webb: Don't don't don't leave me hanging on this, okay?
51:11
Andy Goveia: I said at least this year.
51:12
Andy Goveia: All right.
51:13
Andy Goveia: No plans to bail, but you know.
51:16
Andy Goveia: If a wall falls over, what are you gonna do?
51:19
Andy Goveia: You know?
51:20
Ben Webb: Just move on over here.
51:21
Andy Goveia: Yeah, there you go.
51:22
Andy Goveia: That yes.
51:24
Ben Webb: So we thank you for sticking with us.
51:27
Ben Webb: This is Live in Lab Schools.
51:29
Ben Webb: I'm Ben Webb.
51:30
Ben Webb: Andy Govay.
51:31
Ben Webb: Have a good week, everybody.