Latest / Millennial Mustard Seed / S3 34. Dr Laura Sanger – Becoming One Flesh, A Battel for Godly Marriage

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S3 34. Dr Laura Sanger – Becoming One Flesh, A Battel for Godly Marriage · Millennial Mustard Seed

0:04
Hello, folks, this is Princess, you are listening to the
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millennial Mustard Seed, pod casts, thanks for listening.
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Don't forget to share with your friends, welcome back to the
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Millennia. Mustard Seed, pod cast as you
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travel for the holidays. Give this episode a spin.
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Don't forget when you get together with friends and family
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to talk about the Podcast. Word of mouth is the best way
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that this thing, grows dr. Larry Sanger a friend, a mentor.
0:41
She's back again to cover a topic that I wanted to talk
0:44
about for a long time. Now, we cover marriage with the
0:48
Bible says about why it's under attack, and then it just morphs
0:53
into her sharing experience stories advice.
0:58
See marriage is a relationship that is meant to last our entire
1:02
lives. See here on this Earth
1:04
unfortunately that's not the way things seem to go these days.
1:08
We'll hopefully diving into this episode will give us some
1:12
answers and some insight into how to contend for our
1:15
marriages. The right way, whether you've
1:18
been married for 30 years, or you're getting ready to get
1:21
married or anywhere in between this episode is for you.
1:26
Yes, for you. And for me, and for everybody
1:30
else, that's why I need your help to share this.
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I need you. To also help me by leaving that
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Catcher Apple Spotify that really helps the show grow.
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Let's get into this episode. What am I waiting for?
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Are you guys ready? I'm ready, let's go, let's go.
1:56
Okay, welcome back to the show everybody.
1:58
Thank you for being here dr. Larry Sanger she's almost a If
2:03
she's with us again here for a segment that is so important.
2:08
You guys marriage. We need to be more transparent
2:12
and we need to understand what the Bible says about marriage
2:15
and this has been on my heart recently.
2:18
Let the redeemed of the Lord tell their story marriage is
2:22
have been suffering. This is nothing that is under
2:25
the radar, by any means, we know since 2020.
2:29
The persecutions that have started in unique ways, the
2:32
spiritual battle. The enemy does not like to see
2:35
us join together in a Godly Union.
2:39
So dr. Laura Sanger.
2:40
It is an honor. I can't wait to hear what you
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have to say about all of this. I'm so excited.
2:47
Yeah, and I'm actually really excited to talk about marriage
2:51
because you know, so often I'm talking about the Nephilim
2:54
agenda, you know what's going on and it actually weaves into this
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but you know, when we were texting back and forth as we
3:03
Often do you happen to to text me when I was celebrating my
3:07
30th wedding anniversary and you're like, hey will you do a
3:11
segment on marriage? I thought, yes, I would love to
3:15
marriage. I thought is important, to kind
3:18
of really expose, is this a salt that's happening on marriage and
3:25
then kind of talk about what the biblical Covenant of marriage
3:29
looks like and then I'll share probably some stories just Just
3:33
personal stories of ways that Tom and I my husband, you know,
3:37
we've endured 30 years through life's different struggles that
3:41
we faced. So you know, when I was thinking
3:44
about even you know recent assaults on marriage and and I'm
3:50
one of those people that I the Lord just helps me see a the big
3:53
picture and you know with the book that I wrote on the roots
3:56
of the fellow Reserve, I go all the way back to the dawn of
3:59
humanity. So it's not surprising.
4:01
That's what I did when I started King about marriage too.
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And really the first assault on marriage is from Genesis 6.
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And it's, it's notified in verse 1 and 2 which says, then the
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people began to multiply on the earth and daughters were born to
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them. The sons of God, saw the
4:21
beautiful women and took any they wanted as their wives.
4:25
So the purpose of this particular assault, this first
4:28
assault on marriage, was literally to create an Nit
4:33
bloodline. It was to propagate the seed of
4:36
Satan through the Nephilim. And I think ever since the
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kingdom of darkness has been trying to defile marriages.
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And so what I want to do is dig a little bit into this
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particular passage and again, kind of what I love to do is
4:50
look at the etymology of words, because when we look at the
4:53
words and their original language, it just really unlocks
4:57
a depth of understanding that we don't normally get just by
5:01
reading it in the And so In this passage, you know, the Hebrew
5:06
word for saw as in the sons of God, saw the beautiful woman is
5:11
the Hebrew word Rock and it means to look intently at to
5:16
observe to gaze at and to watch. Now it's interesting because one
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of the other terms for the sons of God and the Book of Enoch is
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the Watchers. Hmm.
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And so is this where they get this?
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Because you know here they were watching Beautiful women, and
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they were lusting after them and of course, we don't know how
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long they were watching them, but it was long enough to
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develop this pent-up lust for which these sons of gods were
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willing to commit treason in order to fulfill their sexual
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desires. Well, then even more telling, is
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if we look at that Hebrew word for took as in, they took any,
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they wanted as their wives, That's the Hebrew word lacock.
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I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but And it means to
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cease to capture to carry off and to take in marriage.
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And so when we understand this, what what happened is these
6:12
Watchers, they captured these beautiful women and They carried
6:16
them off to violate them sexually and they forced them
6:20
into marriage and then impregnated them with the
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Nephilim. Now, it's possible that some of
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the women, you know, they may have felt honored by being
6:29
chosen as wives for the gods. But when You look at the meaning
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of these Hebrew words that's used to describe this event, it
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really suggests. Otherwise, in fact, you know,
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some Scholars. They even suggest that men were
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willing to trade the women for the sacred knowledge that was
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promised to them by the Watchers.
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So it really raises the question was this possibly the first
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women to be trafficked in human history so important.
6:58
Wow. It's very interesting.
7:01
So when we consider the, the big picture, so that was the initial
7:05
assault on marriage back at the, you know, during the days of
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Noah. And then we fast forward all the
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way to into our day, the most recent assault or I should say,
7:17
one of the more recent assaults because it seems like daily.
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There's a salts on marriage is the respect for Marriage Act and
7:25
this was introduced on July 18th of this year by - jerrold
7:30
Nadler. And the next day it was passed
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by the house, which was remarkable.
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And, you know, as often is the case.
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When they give names to these bills, it the bill actually
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accomplishes the exact opposite of what the name is.
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And so it really should be called the defilement of
7:51
Marriage Act, and this bill. My understanding of it, and what
7:55
I've read is that it was introduced by Jerry Nadler.
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Was of a response that was given by Justice Claire's Clarence
8:04
Thomas and he opined that, you know, there was similar faulty
8:08
legal reasoning as what overturn Roe v-- Wade in the Defense of
8:13
Marriage Act and so that would need to be Revisited and that's
8:16
the act in 2015 that legalized same-sex marriages.
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And so because Clarence Thomas opined that representative
8:27
jerrold Nadler brought forth. This act.
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So after it got past, you know, a lot got stirred up as you can
8:36
imagine, and a lot of constituents, thankfully started
8:40
writing their Senators, you know?
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Because it's going to go to the Senate next.
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And I received a letter from one of the constituents of Senator
8:50
Mike Lee. Who's our Senator here in Utah?
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I don't consider Mitt Romney our Senator even though.
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Technically he is But so on September 7th, this is what my
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Senator Mike. Lee wrote about the respective
9:07
Marriage Act, he says unfortunately this legislation
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masquerades under a banner of respect while marginalizing and
9:14
punishing Americans whose views about marriage differ from those
9:18
recognized by the government, this bill would require American
9:22
individuals, companies and institutions to recognize any
9:26
definition of marriage that is approved.
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Proved in any state, including marriages between more than two
9:34
people or even child, marriages under this legislation.
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Should any individual or entity have religious or moral concerns
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with State definitions of marriages, they can be subject
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to government discrimination and potential legal action so he
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wrote that on, September 7th, then a week later on September
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13th, 2000 pastors ministers. Faith.
9:59
And then leaders of religious nonprofit organizations, they
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sent a letter to every single u.s.
10:05
Senator and in it, they say the proposed Bill represents a
10:10
startling expansion of what marriage means and who may be
10:14
sued for disagreement this threatens, the freedoms of
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Americans of many faiths Creeds and walks of life who wish to
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conduct their lives and religious practices, consistent
10:24
with deeply held beliefs. So let me kind of explain what
10:29
this Act if it gets passed by the Senate and becomes law, what
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this could do. So under this respect for
10:37
marriage act, as state, such as Utah, if we decided to legalize
10:42
polygamy, now I have polygamists that live several miles from my
10:47
home. So polygamy is happening here in
10:50
Utah, it's just not legal, but if our legislators decide to
10:55
legalize it, or let's say another state decided, To
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legalize a marriage between blood relatives.
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Or worse yet. What Senator Lee alluded to and
11:07
that is child marriages. So a marriage between an adult
11:12
and a child. If these other states were to
11:16
legalize it under the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US
11:20
Constitution. A legalized.
11:25
So let's say California for example, legalized, child
11:29
marriage. That would mean, if that couple
11:32
that adult and child, if they were to move to another state
11:37
and that other state didn't legalize child marriages, but
11:40
California did that other state would have to acknowledge that
11:45
it's illegal marriage. This is frightening because what
11:50
this means is that pedophiles Has can run rampant without
11:55
being faced with criminal charges and it's absolutely
11:59
despicable. The other thing that Faith
12:03
leaders are really trying to raise concern and awareness
12:06
about is this respect for Marriage Act, effectively
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deputizes interest groups, you know they can then sue people
12:15
who want to uphold God's biblical Covenant of marriage
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and you know they can sue religious individuals
12:24
organizations or businesses. And so what this shows us you
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know this is salt Marriage. Is it shows us how far we have
12:34
strayed as a culture from understanding.
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That marriage is a covenant relationship.
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You know when when Society discards the word of God as the
12:44
truth that guides relationships I really I really believe that
12:49
the sanctity of marriage becomes lost and we have to recognize
12:54
you know, marriage is the foundation of the family unit
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and so we have to protect marriage and family.
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And that's literally the Bedrock of civilization, when marriage
13:05
and family crumble Society, crumbles our civilization,
13:11
crumbles and God was very clear and he instituted the Covenant
13:16
of marriage between one man and one woman, and when he
13:20
established this Covenant, it was for all of humanity and we
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have to recognize to that God's laws and decrees supersede any
13:30
law of the land. And and so when legislation
13:33
opposes, what God has established it really sets our
13:36
path. Our nation on a path of
13:39
Destruction. I believe.
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And that's that's the path we're headed on and so we just really
13:45
have to be aware of currently. What is happening in this
13:48
assault on marriage? The Bible says the Earth even
13:53
moans and groans for the Sons and Daughters of God of
13:57
righteousness to rise up. If what you're hearing right now
14:02
is not stirring. Something inside of you to want
14:07
to rise up and claim authority over this twisted, and wicked
14:13
enemy who has crept in, he has meandered into all of these
14:17
rabbit Trails of our society. and is now, Taking a so far off.
14:24
Track. That even the righteous Wonder
14:26
are the days shortened. He's still on the throne.
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Absolute Sons and Daughters. Rise up, you guys who were
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listening rise up, do not be ashamed.
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Like, Romans. I believe its 1:16 says, I am
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not ashamed of the Gospel. Laura, this is the assault.
14:47
That's taking place. I want to bring us back to what
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is a Biblical Covenant of marriage because I think we have
14:56
lost sight of what it means. You know, marriage is the most
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important relationship that we can enter into aside from a
15:04
relationship with Jesus. And so at the center of a
15:07
Biblical marriage is this Covenant before God and we
15:11
cannot take that lightly. You know, marriage is the sacred
15:16
bond between a man and a woman in which the tube Come one Flash
15:20
and that that was established by God at the creation of humanity.
15:24
And it says, in Genesis 2, verse 20 through 24.
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This is now bone of my bones and Flesh of My Flesh.
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She shall be called woman because she was taken out of,
15:36
man, therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be
15:40
joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
15:44
Now, one of the things as I was thinking about, you know, the
15:47
Covenant of marriage, That the ancient Israelites they had this
15:54
beautiful practice when it came to their weddings and their
16:00
marriages and I want to revisit this for a minute because it
16:04
really will teach us a lot about the Covenant but also about what
16:08
it means to be the bride of Christ so I'm ready.
16:14
So an ancient Israel you know when a man wanted to marry a
16:18
woman He would prepare a covenant, which was like a
16:21
contract and he would present it to the woman and to her father.
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So, in this Covenant, what the man was demonstrating was his
16:31
willingness to provide for the woman and you know what was
16:36
important was some of the terms of this Covenant.
16:39
The most important was the agreed upon price that the man
16:43
was willing to pay to marry the woman.
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Now I want to just give a side note.
16:49
Note here. It that doesn't mean that they
16:51
saw women as an object that needed to be bought.
16:54
Instead, it was really communicating that they
16:58
recognize the value that women had in their family because this
17:02
was an Agricultural Society and everyone in the family labored
17:08
and participated in bringing in the sustenance for the family.
17:12
And so if you lose a daughter to marriage, then you're losing
17:16
that opportunity and what she would bring, NG forth to the
17:19
family and so the bridegroom, he would compensate the family for
17:24
that loss. So, if the bride price was
17:27
agreeable to the woman's father, then the man would pour a glass
17:32
of wine for the woman, and if she drank the wine, it meant
17:37
that she accepted his proposal for marriage and then she agreed
17:40
to enter into that Covenant relationship with him.
17:44
So I want to pause for a minute and fast forward to the Last
17:48
Supper. And it really helps us
17:50
understand, you know, when Jesus said in Matthew 26:28, he says,
17:55
this is my blood of the Covenant, which is poured out
17:58
for the, for many, for the Forgiveness of sins.
18:01
The symbolism here is so beautiful because what Jesus was
18:06
offering he was offering the cup of the New Covenant just like
18:10
the bridegroom offers his bride, the cup of the Covenant of
18:15
marriage. Wow.
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Jesus disclosed and his bride price when he did this, he was
18:22
willing to pay with his life. The death on the cross was what
18:27
he was willing to pay for his bride.
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And so when the disciples then drank the cup, they were
18:36
accepting the New Covenant, and that so beautiful to me the
18:41
parallels here. So then back to ancient Israel
18:45
after the bride. Would drink from the cup?
18:47
What happened is, you know, she Is then considered betroth to
18:50
her bridegroom and then that's when all the preparations would
18:54
begin. Well, it's amazing because this,
18:56
betrothal period actually lasted anywhere between one to two
19:00
years. And during that time, the women
19:02
would wear a veil and that would signify that she was sealed in a
19:07
covenant and that she was bought with a price and no longer
19:11
available to any other men. And, you know, in looking at
19:16
that kind of digging in a little bit deeper Or to this wedding
19:20
practice. This betrothal period was
19:23
actually known as the sanctification period, because
19:27
she was set apart for her bridegroom during that time and
19:31
they never saw each other during the betrothal period.
19:36
The next time they saw each other was when they drank from
19:39
the wedding cup together. And so again, this makes so much
19:44
more sense when we, you know, when we read Matthew 26 29, when
19:48
Jesus says I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the
19:52
vine from now on until that day, when I drink it new with you in
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my father's Kingdom. So it Jesus is referring to is
20:01
this wedding cup of the Lamb. You know, that's what it talks
20:03
about in Revelation 19:7. This is let us rejoice and be
20:07
glad and give him glory. For the wedding of the Lamb is
20:10
come, and the bride has made herself ready.
20:14
Prince. I think it's just so beautiful
20:16
the symbolism here because, you know, when we We accept Jesus,
20:19
when we drink from that cup of the New Covenant, and we receive
20:23
that New Covenant, where betroth to Jesus and that betrothal
20:27
period is known as that sanctification process.
20:31
You know, while we are alive here on Earth, we are in a
20:35
process of sanctifying ourselves going from glory to glory, you
20:39
know, allowing the dross to be burned out of us, and then we
20:44
will see him again, when, when the marriage of the lamb and the
20:49
Come together. And so it's just it's so
20:51
beautiful little bit of Celebration.
20:54
Yes. And, you know, when we think
20:58
about again, so back to this, this ancient Jewish wedding
21:01
practice. I think it just really provides
21:04
this beautiful understanding of what the marriage covenant is.
21:08
You know, when we when we enter into that Covenant by saying, I
21:12
do, you know, we it's not something again to take lightly.
21:17
We are entering into To a lifelong Covenant with our
21:20
spouse. You know we're working to love
21:22
encourage and cherish one another until death.
21:25
Do us part and effusions, really lays out how we do that.
21:30
And I want to read this is from Ephesians 5 and its verses 22
21:35
through 33 and it's in the message and it's just so
21:39
beautiful. It says wives understand and
21:43
support your husband's in ways that show your support for
21:46
Christ. The husband provides leadership
21:50
to his wife. The way Christ does to his
21:52
church not by domineering but by cherishing.
21:56
So just as the church submits to Christ, as he exercises such
21:59
leadership wives, should likewise submit to their
22:03
husbands husband's. Go all out in your love for your
22:06
wives. Exactly as Christ did for the
22:08
church, a love marked by giving not getting Christ.
22:13
Love makes the church. Whole his words evoke her
22:17
beauty. Everything he does and says, is
22:20
designed to bring the best out of her dressing her in dazzling.
22:24
White silk radiant, with Holiness and that is how
22:27
husband's ought to love their wives.
22:30
They're really doing themselves a favor since they're already
22:32
one in marriage, no one abuses. His own body does he know he
22:37
feeds a? A it that's how Christ treats us
22:40
the church since we are part of his body.
22:43
And this is why a man leaves father and mother and cherishes
22:46
his wife No longer to, they become one flesh.
22:50
This is a huge mystery and I don't pretend to understand it
22:53
all. What is clear?
22:54
As to me is the way Christ treats the church and this
22:58
provides a good picture. How about of how each husband is
23:01
to treat his wife, loving himself and loving her and how
23:06
each wife is to honor her husband?
23:09
When we, when I read that. And I think, oh my gosh, if if
23:13
all our marriages were like that, we literally would have no
23:16
divorce. But tragic the, you know, we
23:21
have strayed so far from loving and cherishing and honoring in
23:25
this way, you know? So often I'm guilty of this too,
23:28
and I'll share stories and it just a minute.
23:30
But so often we think about our own needs, you know, before our
23:34
spouses and often times we we developed these expectations of
23:41
what our spouse needs to do. And when those get unmet, what
23:45
happens is we allow bitterness to take Fruit and our marriage
23:49
and a root of bitterness will choke out marriage.
23:56
You're speaking directly to me and everybody else at this
24:00
point. I can't tell you how important
24:03
this this information is for me. I mean, a couple things that I
24:07
wrote down is oh my gosh, the culture at large just mind
24:13
warps. All of our Generations into
24:17
distorting marriage. The proper definition of
24:21
marriage is not even relevant in today's culture and Why there's
24:26
so much abuse and how we relate to each other think of the word
24:31
relationship. And it's like, I don't even want
24:33
to call what communication with the world being a relationship
24:37
at this point because I want to reject everything that they have
24:40
to say, and hone in on learning the word of God in the way it
24:45
was intended for us to learn. Because with myself something on
24:49
a point that you just made up, I'll just share this.
24:53
You're 100% right in my mindset. Sometimes I'll think I wish my
24:57
wife would do this, or I perceive this should be an
25:01
outcome, and if she doesn't do it, it's almost like the
25:03
narration of our own mind. It's like disappointing, and I
25:07
catch myself a lot recently, and as my wife listens to their,
25:10
she'll be grinning at me smiling, because we've been,
25:13
we've been to the test recently over our, we celebrate our six
25:17
wedding anniversary, two months ago.
25:19
Awesome. And Taking the time to
25:24
communicate and slow down and trying to learn to prefer her
25:27
over. Myself is literally a battle
25:30
because I'm combating all of these years of living in the
25:34
world and not having this tight and narrow understanding of what
25:38
marriage really means. According to God.
25:40
Now, as I go through it and listen to you, it becomes alive
25:43
where I'm like, yeah, all those little nudges that were, like,
25:46
no lay down your plan for the day.
25:49
No, do not think that your thoughts on how This should
25:53
look, are our final, like, be genuinely and interested, and
26:00
compassionate, and slow down about what your wife's
26:03
responses. Are what her true needs are not
26:06
like where we're going to dinner, like the important
26:09
things, right? And it's just yeah, getting
26:14
gobsmacked in my truth, bone here.
26:19
Yeah. You know after being married for
26:23
For 30 years, I gosh, I have so many stories, I could tell, but,
26:29
you know, I wanted to just share some of the ways that like I
26:33
said, earlier, we've gotten through some of life's
26:36
struggles, but just to give some of your listeners, a little bit
26:40
of background. So my husband's name is Tom and
26:44
we have three children. So our oldest is a daughter and
26:47
she's 24. And she actually just celebrated
26:50
her first year of marriage and we adore our son.
26:53
Law. He is amazing.
26:55
Yeah. And then we have our oldest son
26:58
is 19 and he is working in the trades.
27:01
He does concrete work and absolutely loves it.
27:05
And he's living at home and we love that and then our youngest
27:10
son is almost 15. He's he'll be 15 in January and
27:15
he is in ninth grade. And so that just gives you a
27:19
little bit of perspective of the age of our kids because that
27:21
will tie into some of the stories.
27:23
I tell. But so for my husband, I just
27:28
have to say he is absolutely my best friend.
27:31
Like, we, we share so much together and I'm grateful
27:36
because he is an amazing Communicator.
27:40
You know, it. I think often times people say
27:42
that men have a lot fewer words than women.
27:45
Well, that's not the case in our marriage.
27:47
I actually talked less than he does.
27:50
And I'm, I love listening. I'm a good listener.
27:52
That's Of why I went into psychology and so I loved his
27:56
stories. Like he he just tells me so much
28:00
about his life and what he's processing and the interactions.
28:03
He has each day with people. So I feel like I'm living life
28:07
right alongside him when you know when he goes to work and
28:10
things like that. So I'm super grateful for that
28:13
and he he's also our resident comedian.
28:17
He's just he's one of the those guys that has just a fun sense
28:21
of humor, and He loves dad jokes, I would not say that we
28:25
laughed very hard at his dad jokes, there's a lot more
28:28
moaning that goes on in our family, when he tells dad jokes,
28:32
but he just his personality is hilarious.
28:37
And so we there are times were literally crying in laughter at
28:41
the dinner table, because he pulls out semantics that just
28:45
cracks us up. So he's a lot of fun to live
28:48
with. And he's got this exuberant
28:50
personality. So everyone loves Tom, I mean,
28:53
I've not met a person that doesn't like him, so he's very
28:58
easy to be married to which again, I am so grateful for, but
29:03
like, you know, with any couple over 30 years we've had
29:08
definitely ups and downs in our marriage, but I think really,
29:12
what keeps us going strong through our life struggles is
29:16
the fact that not only do we love each other, but we love
29:19
Jesus. And Jesus is the center of our
29:21
marriage and we Determined that while we were dating that we
29:26
weren't going to just have Jesus as like a side note on the
29:30
peripheral of our marriage. We literally wanted to invite
29:34
him into the center of our marriage and I'm so thankful.
29:37
We did that even when we were dating because that has just
29:41
continued all the way through our marriage.
29:44
And I think, I think back at a pivotal point in my relationship
29:47
with Tom, where am I? I'm just gonna be super
29:52
vulnerable. And share with people my Antics
29:55
because they were quite ridiculous.
29:58
So, when we were in college, is when we met, we started dating
30:01
my senior year of college and this was six months into our
30:06
marriage or into our dating, not our marriage, and I was doing
30:11
research at the time, and I had to drive, like 45 minutes
30:15
outside of campus to do run, some research experiments.
30:19
And so he decided to come with me, which I thought was great.
30:23
And so he came and I don't remember at this point what
30:27
happened, but something happened during the course of that day,
30:30
and running the experiments, like he did.
30:33
Something that I didn't feel was appropriate.
30:35
I don't, I can't remember what it was, but I got upset with
30:39
him. And so on the ride home, it was
30:41
about again, 45 minutes away. And I, we got in this argument
30:47
and my usual Antics is, I like to be in control and So if I'm
30:54
upset with someone, I will give them the silent treatment.
30:57
And so, that's what I did for 45 minutes on the drive home.
31:02
And we got back to campus and he looked at me.
31:05
And he said, if you want to continue in this relationship,
31:08
this silent treatment will not work like goat all it, literally
31:15
stunned me because, you know, I was a bit of a brat and I was
31:20
used to being in control and Controlling relationships, but I
31:25
am so grateful. He put his foot down because I
31:29
knew he was the man. I was going to marry.
31:32
And so, if I was going to continue in relationship with
31:36
him, I needed to learn how to deal with conflict differently.
31:40
So over the course of years, you know, we got married, and even
31:45
before we got married, he started to teach me how to
31:48
resolve conflict. And this is something he learned
31:51
from his parents and So grateful, because this is an
31:55
example of a generational blessing that can run in family
31:59
lines and his parents taught, he and his sister, how to do this.
32:04
And Tom taught me how to do this.
32:07
And essentially what he taught us is, how to forgive one
32:10
another on a body, Soul, and Spirit Level.
32:13
And so I want to describe how this played out.
32:15
So, you know, in our marriage and even as we were starting our
32:21
family, we waited five. Years before, we had our
32:24
daughter but as we, you know, we're having this young family
32:29
and raising our kids and, you know, progressing in our years
32:32
of marriage, he taught us that, you know, when we offend one
32:38
another, we get in a fight or an argument, we say stupid stuff or
32:41
we do mean things, how you work through it is, you know, first
32:46
of all apologize. And that's what most people will
32:48
do, you know, they'll say they're sorry and that's the
32:50
soul level because their soul is Made up of our mind will and
32:54
emotions. So when we say I'm sorry, it's
32:57
were expressing remorse and that's the soul level.
33:01
Now, most people stop there, but what Tom taught us is, that's
33:07
not where you stop. The next step is to ask for
33:10
forgiveness, and that is the, the spirit level in Colossians
33:15
3:13 says, bear with each other and forgive one.
33:18
Another, if any of you has a grievance against someone, Give
33:23
as the Lord forgave you. And so he taught us that, you
33:26
know, we ask for forgiveness. So, you know, excuse me.
33:30
If I, if I did something that was hurtful to Tom, I would say
33:35
Tom, will you please forgive me for X, Y and Z?
33:38
And then what we would do is we would say, please help me
33:43
understand how I can handle this better or differently next time
33:48
and that was so helpful because it taught me how to Communicate,
33:53
effectively with him, it taught me that you know when I when I
33:58
respond in a certain way what it triggers and him and that's how
34:02
it led to this fight and so it teaches us how to interact
34:08
better with one another. When we ask that question, what
34:11
can I do differently next time that won't end us up in this
34:15
fight? And so, you know, we generally
34:18
when we're in a fight, both of us are saying mean things.
34:21
And so we'll both ask For forgiveness.
34:24
And then we end it with some sort of physical Embrace and
34:29
that's the body level. So whether that's a hug or a
34:33
kiss, if it's our kids like a hug or a high-five or if it's
34:38
between sibling, sometimes a dog pile you know whatever exchange
34:43
that's there on the body level and what that it essentially
34:47
completes the deal and it shows that even on the level of our
34:52
body we are Not holding that offense, any longer.
34:55
And so what he taught us to do, really was to keep short
34:58
accounts with one another. And I have to say now that our
35:01
kids are older, you know, they look at other families.
35:05
They look at other sibling relationships and they can see
35:09
the fruit of what Tom taught us and how to forgive one another
35:14
and how to resolve conflict because our, our kids genuinely
35:18
enjoy being around each other. Now they're older now and so
35:22
it's Her when they're older, but even when they were younger, you
35:25
know, they would go through the typical sibling stuff where, you
35:28
know, they're annoying each other and screaming or yelling
35:32
or throwing things or, you know, throwing punches, whatever it is
35:37
and we would bring them into our room or, you know, a private, a
35:43
private area, if we weren't at home and we would say, okay,
35:46
what is going on? And one of our mantras in our
35:50
family is use your words. You've got to Communicate.
35:54
And so we taught our kids that from a very young age and so we
35:58
would ask them. OK what what's going on?
36:00
What started this, who did what? And of course you get all the
36:03
finger-pointing at first and it still heated, you know, a lot of
36:08
emotions but then we begin to gradually work them through it
36:13
and get them to a point where they're ready to acknowledge
36:16
their end of what they did, and begin the Forgiveness process
36:21
and Ajay 's and then ask for forgiveness and then, you know,
36:25
usually the physical Embrace of some sort.
36:29
And I have to tell you that, you know, there are times certainly
36:32
where they were not ready to apologize like they weren't
36:35
ready to see their end of the fight and so we would just sit
36:41
in the room with them and sometimes it took like 45
36:45
minutes before they were ready to acknowledge, but we recognize
36:51
that okay. If we The time.
36:53
Now into these relationships, then we're going to Bear the
36:57
fruit for years to come, and that's what we're seeing.
37:00
And so, I credit Tom because how do we, how do we resolve
37:06
conflict? The way that, you know, I did
37:09
before I met time, we would be in a world of hurt.
37:12
Lots of silent treatment, lots of glares, lots of bitterness.
37:17
So I really credit Tom for passing on that generational
37:22
blessing. Ting.
37:24
But we we definitely had our struggles and so you had
37:28
mentioned something earlier about expectations and I have to
37:32
share this because that is definitely something I did early
37:36
on in our marriage. So I developed this expectation
37:40
of how Tom was going to lead our family as the spiritual head of
37:44
the home. And so, you know, I had a
37:48
relationship with Gigi we both had relationships with Jesus and
37:52
the way that I interacted with Jesus is I, you know, I'm a
37:55
morning person, I love to spend time with the Lord, so I would
37:58
get up in the morning and just have my time with the Lord
38:02
whether it was journaling or praying or whatever it was,
38:05
well, my expectation is that Tom would do the same that his
38:10
relationship with. Jesus would look the same as
38:13
mine because you know, of course, if he was going to lead
38:15
me spiritually, then he had to be like a step ahead of where I
38:18
was and my behavior was so Eating, like, as I look back at
38:24
it. Now, it literally just makes me
38:27
disgusted. But that's what I was doing.
38:30
And so I would, this is so hard to admit, but I would literally
38:35
ask him. I don't know if it was every
38:38
day, but it was frequently, I would ask him.
38:41
So, how are your quiet times this morning?
38:45
Because I knew he didn't spend time with the Lord in the
38:48
morning, like I was doing. And it was my not-so-subtle way
38:51
to say, hey, if you're, Lead us as a spiritual head of the home.
38:55
You've got to spend time with the Lord in the morning and
38:58
that's how controlling I was. And really for the first decade
39:03
of our marriage, I operated in this controlling spirit, it's it
39:07
really was a Jezebel spirit and so after several years of him,
39:13
just not meeting my expectations.
39:15
I was so frustrated and disappointed.
39:19
And I got to this place with the Lord, where I prayed this really
39:22
Lee dangerous prayer and I said, Lord, take me through the
39:27
refiners fire and burn out the dross within me.
39:30
Wow. And you have to say, if you, if
39:34
you ever pray that you have to be prepared that the Lord is
39:37
going to show you your absolute wretchedness because the Lord
39:44
literally took me up on that prayer and immediately and I
39:47
clearly heard him say you are the reason Tom is being held
39:52
back. I was holding him back because
39:55
of the control and because of the expectations and the Lord
39:59
began showing me a glimpse, it was like, I was able to see it
40:05
for what it truly was. I was blind to my control, the
40:08
control issues in my life, prior to that, oh my gosh.
40:13
When the Lord showed me that, I literally felt nauseous.
40:17
I felt like I was gonna vomit. I just was like, oh my gosh.
40:22
And I began to repent and I knew I needed to make changes.
40:28
And so I started just by letting go of that expectation that, you
40:34
know, his relationship with Jesus can look.
40:37
However, he wants it to look, he's got a totally different
40:41
personality than mine, but I'd have to say that that Spirit of
40:47
control, I didn't get completely set free out until we faced a
40:51
severe. It's in our family, and that was
40:55
when our youngest son, when he was 10 months old, he was
40:59
diagnosed with kidney failure and failure to thrive, and the
41:04
trauma of that experience because we nearly lost him on
41:08
two different occasions and his health issues lasted for years.
41:14
And the first, you know, the first six months to a year.
41:17
It was super intense. It was like one setback after
41:21
the other and I literally Lee. I didn't know from day to day if
41:26
when I woke up in the morning and went to check on him and his
41:28
crib if I was going to find him dead or alive and it absolutely
41:33
wrecked me and the Lord began to deal with the control issues in
41:38
my life through that process because I went through a Dark
41:42
Night of the soul for about a good year and a half, almost two
41:45
years and I completely tanked because one of the, the issues
41:51
when he was diagnosed with To thrive.
41:53
He's 10 months old, I'm nursing him.
41:55
Still, he actually, I won't go too far into the story because
42:00
there's a lot of details but he had started to eat baby food.
42:06
When we were at the call DC in 2008 and not is a 12-hour prayer
42:15
and fasting event on the Washington mall and we were
42:19
there, as I was youth minister at the time, I took a A group of
42:23
people and we had we had done a prayer event or just a prayer
42:29
time on the steps of the Supreme Court the day before the call.
42:33
And that was the last day. My son ate baby food and he got
42:38
very sick in DC and we thought we thought he was dying on the
42:42
flight home. It was very traumatic but all
42:46
that to say, you know, so he stopped eating all food and so I
42:51
could only nurse him. And I thought I was producing
42:54
enough breast milk to sustain him, but when he got diagnosed
42:59
with failure to thrive it rocked the very core of me because I
43:04
was failing as a mom to provide his most basic need and not was
43:10
to nourish him. And I just, like, completely
43:13
fell apart. Sorry.
43:15
I didn't think I was gonna cry. It's still, you know, I've been
43:20
healed through that, but it's still just a Be difficult thing
43:23
and through the grace of God, as I went through that Dark Night
43:27
of the Soul, Tom was an absolute Rock.
43:33
I mean he was so solid for me and my whole world was turned
43:38
upside down but yet Tom was was consistent and steadfast and I'm
43:45
so grateful because you know there's times in our marriages
43:48
Tom is gone through rough spots in life where It's been really
43:53
hard for him and thankfully it, we both don't tank at the same
43:58
time. We have by the grace of God,
44:01
been able to, you know, endure these difficult times.
44:05
And I really believe it's because we dedicated our
44:09
marriage to Jesus. And he said, Jesus, we want you
44:12
in the center of our marriage and And because of that, you
44:18
know, we've been able to be there for one another and to
44:21
stand strong. When the other one is is just
44:24
falling apart and to give Grace to that process.
44:27
Like Tom didn't hunt set place any expectations on me.
44:32
When I fell apart, he just was present with me in the midst of
44:36
the the Wilderness and I'm so grateful for that.
44:40
So I just share that because I want to encourage people that,
44:44
you know, Even though we might set these expectations for our
44:49
spouse and it could lead to the destruction of our marriage.
44:53
God is so good to show us. And when we're willing to have
44:58
our eyes open and our ears open to what the Holy Spirit wants to
45:03
show us about our own lives and to bring correction to us, you
45:07
know, Jesus the father. He disciplines those, he loves
45:11
hmm. And I was being disciplined
45:13
through that process because I had serious.
45:16
Control issues. Oh, the last thing is, I got set
45:20
free from that Spirit of control in the midst of worship at our
45:24
church. And I had been meeting with our
45:27
senior Minister for, oh, probably a year straight.
45:31
And he was, he was really excellent at confronting that
45:34
control issues in my life because other people could see
45:38
it clearly. I just couldn't.
45:40
Anyways, in the midst of worship, I literally heard this
45:45
loud. Snap inside of my body.
45:48
I was like what was that? And the Holy Spirit said, Spirit
45:53
of control just broke off. You and I was set free and and
45:58
it moving forward from that point, I changed how it was like
46:03
I did a different dance. I was no longer no longer doing
46:07
that dysfunctional dance of controlling my kids and
46:11
controlling. Tom, I began to learn a
46:15
different dance. Stop.
46:16
And so, I'm just so grateful for the Lord, that, you know, he
46:19
never gives up on us, even though, you know, we have such
46:23
ugly, ugly, behaviors and patterns.
46:27
He's so get to walk us through and, and to lead us into
46:31
Freedom, that is such a powerful testimony.
46:37
Let the redeemed of the Lord tell their story, right?
46:40
And Tom's parents, first of all, like, praise God, okay?
46:46
How they taught him to communicate and to pierce
46:49
through and, to reverse the work of the damage that can be done,
46:53
either by her in stupidity, or whether it just be through, you
46:56
know, iniquities or just blindness ignorance at times,
47:00
but his parents were intentional.
47:02
And when you were saying that because I know that not
47:05
everybody has parents, who do that?
47:07
This is the verse that popped into my heart.
47:09
Laura, it was when Jesus was with a crowd of people.
47:16
And disciples were trying to get to him.
47:18
And he they were saying, hey your mother and your brothers
47:21
are here to see you and Jesus stops and he says My mother and
47:26
my brothers are those who hear the will of God and do it.
47:31
Now, the reason I bring that up, you have not as a listener,
47:35
gotten good information as to how to handle and how to
47:39
communicate with your spouse or even if you're not married and
47:42
you listen to this episode in preparation for marriage.
47:46
We can rely on the body of Christ people with wisdom.
47:50
The Bible says that there is there's safety and wise counsel.
47:55
So find a woman of God, if you're a young woman and be
48:00
humble, get counseled and it's a long grueling process.
48:04
So if you didn't have Tom's parents at that model of them,
48:07
teaching us the right way. There's hope in Christ and in
48:11
those who accept Christ, as we give honor to those who are
48:15
older than us in the body of Christ and we seek, hey, I need
48:19
to learn this. I need some help here and just
48:21
being honest with each other. The next thing is You said doing
48:25
warship Laura? Hmm.
48:28
Then you said you heard that loud snap our declaration to God
48:32
is a weapon against the enemy and I just want to encourage the
48:36
listeners to go close the door in a secret place and make a new
48:39
song unto the Lord make Declaration of his majesty and
48:43
who he is. Because what I've been going
48:45
through recently, I was sick and I'm finally getting better.
48:49
And I noticed that after multiple doctors appointments,
48:52
my mind was not going to come. To agreement and Clarity with
48:57
healing until I acknowledge God. First, regardless of whatever
49:00
the other recommendations were from from a doctor.
49:02
Like, I literally had to take a loan time and just take hot
49:08
here. I am open, heart surgery and
49:10
Laura when you said that, that vulnerable prayer about how you
49:13
had asked, God to show you the scary moment during marriage
49:19
like, God. Open my eyes and show me what's
49:23
going on here? Yeah, I'm being so vulnerable.
49:25
Am I in error? It's so true that God
49:29
disciplines Those whom he loves and for the listeners last
49:34
almost a year ago. I missed a year ago to the
49:38
month, actually. Is when I had temporarily
49:42
canceled the podcast and most people don't know.
49:46
But dr. Laura her sharing wisdom with me
49:51
and taking the time. The call to text to pray with
49:56
me, almost lost the love of my life, in a car accident, within
50:00
two weeks of that. Our first house fell through. it
50:05
didn't come to past and lost, half our income because My wife
50:09
hasn't worked since that accident and the listeners did
50:14
not know any of those details. I did a possible end to show
50:19
episode last year at this time, it was actually December 7th.
50:22
And then there's a whole story about how things have been able
50:27
to continue to go by God's grace.
50:29
So if you guys learn anything here today, if you remember
50:34
anything. It Is by God's grace and us
50:38
being transparent and willing to go to the open heart surgery.
50:43
I believe it was a Christian rap song from years ago, the master
50:47
artist will make your mess a masterpiece regardless.
50:50
I think it was like a Lecrae song from that's good from years
50:53
ago. And you know you talked with me
50:57
and prayed with me through a very dark season one year ago
51:01
and I know someone else out there who's going to be
51:03
listening is going to weep through this episode and they're
51:05
going to Acknowledged, I just need to get real with myself and
51:08
I need to really call them God's name and let the redeemed of the
51:12
Lord shared their stories. Thank you so much for being
51:16
here. Laura, it's a joy.
51:18
Who's got emotional on this episode and here we are.
51:22
Praising God sharing our stories.
51:25
So yeah, the show has been growing by God's grace and I
51:29
know that new listeners may have not heard your first episode.
51:33
You were on earlier this year where we covered the Nephilim
51:36
agenda and spiritual mapping, you wrote a book called the
51:39
roots of the Federal Reserve and I highly recommend the listeners
51:43
to go. Get a copy.
51:45
They have a copy of it at my local bookstore, they do?
51:49
Yes. Yeah, that's exciting to know.
51:52
Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it's so cool because I
51:55
invited the lady who owns that Christian bookstore to come on
51:59
for like a 15-minute 20-minute. He's of edification episode
52:02
talking about, you know, the highlights of and the struggles
52:05
and rewards of owning a Christian bookstore.
52:07
So I really hope she agrees and decides to come on, Laura, tell
52:11
the people where they can find you Yeah, so the best place to
52:15
find me is on my website, which is no longer enslaved.com and
52:20
then you can reach out to me. I love getting emails from
52:24
people. I try my best to respond to
52:27
everyone and my book is available on my website.
52:31
You'll find articles, I write monthly articles that are
52:35
available. If you subscribe, you'll get
52:37
those once a month. There's no cost to subscribing.
52:40
Is just signing up your email and then all my podcasts and
52:45
videos that I've done over the years are on my website.
52:48
I've also have a YouTube and Rumble Channel called no longer
52:52
enslaved and I've done several different episodes, but I've
52:55
done two series. The first series was a 10 part
52:58
series called the impact of the Nephilim agenda today.
53:02
And then the second series, I just finished is called
53:05
transformation through. Spiritual mapping.
53:07
So those are both available on my YouTube and Rumble Channel
53:11
and then I'm also on Telegram and Instagram.
53:14
Laura Sanger 444 hurts and so you can find me there.
53:18
I'm also on LinkedIn to or better than anyone because they
53:22
have a good reward for their labor Ecclesiastes. 49 Laura, I
53:27
call you a friend, a mentor at this point.
53:33
Share this episode with your pastor.
53:36
You got to share it with your spouse.
53:38
Most importantly, pray about everything you hurt, you work
53:42
out your salvation with fear and Trembling as we trust in the
53:46
Christ. The prices paid and he has good
53:49
plans for our lives. If we trust him coming to you
53:54
from Southeastern Pennsylvania. God Bless America.
53:59
Goodbye.