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Christian Patriotism vs Christian Nationalism: What's the Difference? · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Relish, pleasing or zestful flavor, a quantity just sufficient to flavor,
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  to be pleased or gratified by, enjoy.
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  We are hoping that what we bring to your table today might add some spice to your life.
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  Welcome back to another episode of Relish. I am your host, Ron Miller.
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  This is Pastor Don Patterson.
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  Don, how are you doing today? Oh, well, I had a cinnamon roll.
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  How did anybody do poorly after a cinnamon roll?
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  Yes. Encounter Cafe. Yes. That was delicious. Yes, very much so. Yeah.
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  Shall we start out with a question for you? Just this way. Just a little bit. Let's do that.
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  If someone said to you, I don't believe in God, how would you answer?
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  I think I would kind of ask them why they don't believe in God,
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  what they've heard about God, kind of what is supporting that claim.
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  And then, I don't know, I guess. So checking out their perspective first.
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  Trying to because i don't think you can i mean you can but it wouldn't be as
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  effective if you just said the same thing,
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  to everybody because they're they'd be coming from different backgrounds they'd
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  be having different reasons for why they believe that so then very appropriate
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  you're able to make it specific to that individual and,
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  i guess um tell them about God specifically towards the points that they're,
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  kind of denying him then right I don't know good good approach I like that I
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  think I'll take that under advisement,
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  next time I can run into that situation haven't run into too many of those just
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  from my but then you're going to college right you never know yeah there'll probably,
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  be at least a couple but we'll see yeah.
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  Never know. All right. So you have some questions? I do have some questions.
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  Coming off 4th of July weekend, right? Big old 250. Yes. So. Yes.
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  Patriotism versus Christianity. Yes. Sort of like, should we be patriotic?
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  How patriotic is that against our Christian ways? I'll just reference the sermon
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  I preached last Sunday. Yeah. Just read that.
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  Yeah, and that was part of what we were dealing with.
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  I mean, we were dealing with nationalism in Israel, and they wanted to be like
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  everybody else, so they wanted to copy the kingship of other nations instead of following God.
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  So how do we do that? And I mean, there's a movement where the liberals,
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  the non-Christians are calling Christians,
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  Christian and if nationalists, that's a really interesting term.
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  And so I did some looking at that term after I heard it.
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  It's not like they were to tell it calling me a Christian nationalist.
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  I think they probably figured they'd get my ire up at that point.
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  So i looked it up and in in wikipedia of course everybody likes wikipedia right
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  that's it they actually had uh 10 nations that were,
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  using where that term was being used derogatarily by the liberal,
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  group that was critical of government and moral frameworks and then the,
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  Other groups that they were criticizing were called Christian nationalists because
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  they had a moral framework with which they wanted to point to government.
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  See, I come from the standpoint that,
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  We are Christian. I believe our moral framework of Christianity also is beneficial to governments.
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  It's also beneficial to people who aren't believers that we should live that into our government.
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  How is that patriotism?
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  I'm just saying, I think we need to acknowledge that as Christians,
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  this government has been a gift that God has provided for our safety, our security.
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  They've made provisions for us as individual denominations to accommodate some
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  of our personal beliefs.
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  I mean, there is ways of working with the people who don't believe they can
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  go to war and serve in that way.
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  They still get to serve, but it's not in the same, not in a militaristic way.
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  So, how can you critique a government that's willing to listen to your faith and respect it, yet.
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  It's not God, it's not what we worship, it's not going to, so, yeah.
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  Yeah. Well, we didn't sing America the Beautiful on Sunday.
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  No national anthem. No national anthem.
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  Yeah. But we acknowledge it is a gift. I mean, there's no other nation that
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  we could flourish like we flourished because of the fact that it has,
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  if it isn't Christian, it at least reflects the moral framework.
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  Of Christianity. You know, and that's, I think, one of the things we can bring.
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  Hmm. Go back to the question again, make sure I answered it. Um...
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  Should we be patriotic or is that against our Christian ways?
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  Oh, yeah. And I think we need to be patriotic in the sense that we acknowledge
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  all the gifts that God has given us through this government.
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  And so don't be mean about it and say, well, I mean, really? No fireworks? I mean.
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  Yeah. I know like the Amish, right?
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  They don't pay taxes that go towards military use, right?
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  Well, in fact, anybody can get a deferment on that military tax.
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  It actually then goes into another form, but not directly to the military.
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  I know in my schooling, especially at Christian high school,
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  We'd always look at the founding fathers and the,
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  way they structured the documents and how it was definitely a Christian framework
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  and morals that were found in it.
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  So, in the first document, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Right.
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  I mean, boy, if it isn't Christian, then what is that? I mean,
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  to have a government document reflect?
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  The trinity wow so uh yeah even the declaration under god.
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  Yep,
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  Yeah, it's interesting how this has sort of gotten all over the place.
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  I don't know whether it would make a difference if we were in the middle of conflict.
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  I guess the last two times I've seen, well,
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  conflict and how we've dealt with it, I guess, three times now.
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  Oh, boy. Anyway, I'm not sure anybody's done too well at keeping the idea of
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  who we are as Christians as a good.
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  Complement to patriotism. Because I think there's always going to be an edge.
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  How we live out that edge, I think, is at least where I see your question coming
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  from is part of that. Yeah.
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  Are we, is it all right to be patriotic? Well, to a certain extent.
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  I think we need to acknowledge that this is a nation in which we're living.
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  Praise the Lord, a freedom in which we're living. I think it's a gift.
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  And God uses it to his honor and glory. Yeah.
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  Interestingly enough, this conversation came up at the table today when we were having lunch.
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  Do we realize that even Jesus and Paul and Peter would use the Roman government,
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  to the advantage of getting the gospel out,
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  Christian gospel out, and their use of roads and mail and the courier system,
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  the language? It was a gift that God would use to get the gospel out all over the place.
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  So God uses government. Yeah. Yeah, he's open to use government and in many different ways.
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  Yeah. I'd even say, onrely, as I can do it, that when you get to Romans or Acts chapter 8.
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  That persecution that came upon the church in Jerusalem was actually God using
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  that persecution to get them out of Jerusalem. Get this word out on the road.
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  Don't stay there in Jerusalem all this time. They'd become comfortable.
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  And so then here comes old Saul and he's spitting out fire and going against
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  the Christians. I think God even used that to get them out of Jerusalem and
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  get the gospel on the road.
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  It's interesting. I never thought about that. And then you get to chapter 9,
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  and all of a sudden he's converted.
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  He's a Christian. He's drawing them. Right. He's doing his part.
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  Yeah. It's just very interesting as you read through the book of Acts that God
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  can even use the hardest of times to get his gospel in places that we normally may not take it.
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  Mm-hmm well i know i've i've definitely thanked god for,
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  like our that freedom of religion that we have and that we're able to have this place to meet in this,
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  or even this podcast yeah this podcast that we could be locked down and have
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  post stuff online officers outside ready to take us into custody because we're on the air with,
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  talking about jesus is a good thing that we can legally have a bible like i've
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  our janitor at school mike yes ukraine and,
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  i mean there's he's got so many terrible stories of,
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  like can't have a bible there and you there's there's not church right you just
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  don't have yeah like this would not be allowed there so that's right all.
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  And we don't know that that's even changed to the day in Ukraine and.
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  Russia for sure. Many other places like that as well.
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  So I just pity anybody.
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  Who would make it a bad thing to acknowledge that this nation is now 250 years
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  old and all the things that it has allowed us to do that we would not have been
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  able to do in any other country,
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  or many other countries. Right.
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  So I'm sorry. If you don't want to shoot off fireworks, that's all right. You just don't do that.
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  We're going to acknowledge that this is all right to be in the United States, I think. Yeah.
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  Since you mentioned the Trinity in the Declaration, you said?
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  It's the document before the Declaration. Okay. Yeah.
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  Why does the Trinity itself exist? Why are they combined as one rather than
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  three separate? it? Well,
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  our faith has always been monotheistic. One God, one God, Father of all things.
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  So, the problem is that we as human beings, from my perspective,
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  we as human beings are finite, and sometimes a little more finite than we want to be.
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  So, for us to understand God, He actually has manifest Himself as Father.
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  Well-known as father, especially in the Old Testament, and then as the son,
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  Jesus Christ, and then as the Holy Spirit.
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  For me, it helps me understand that God is not only the father,
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  originator, creator of all things,
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  but he also came in that first person of Jesus Christ so that we can understand,
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  okay, this is what it looks like to live for God.
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  And so we're given four testaments in the Bible that give unique perspectives on Jesus.
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  And that from that we can draw, okay, this is what Jesus would do.
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  In addition to that, Jesus realized that his time in the physical earth,
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  walking like we walk, was limited.
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  So after that perfect example, then he sent the Holy Spirit.
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  So the Holy Spirit is what's here right now and a part of this broadcast.
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  Because Jesus in the physical could only be in one place at a time.
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  In the Spirit, He can be everywhere, all the time. And we have a hard time understanding
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  that God is omnipresent.
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  We get a little closer in understanding that when we understand the Holy Spirit
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  is in each of us as Christians.
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  And present with us as we gather together as Christians.
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  And so it's free to move independent of space and time.
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  And there's Jesus, we've got a very good example of him in the four Gospels.
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  And then Father, we can understand God the Father. You know,
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  big hairy, big white beard.
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  Yep. Your father doesn't have a big white beard. He does not. Mine doesn't either.
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  It'd be white if he had a beard, I guess. But so then we equate those three
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  things with a little bit closer understanding of who God is because we stick
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  all three of them together and that's God.
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  Which is more than any one of those terms. Yeah. And that's really what God is.
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  I mean, even when we boil him down to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
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  we can't get our little pea-picking heads around all that God is.
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  Right. It's just, he's out of this world. Out of our understanding.
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  Yep. Circles back to us being finite. We are. Exactly. It does.
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  Circles back to that, for sure.
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  Good question you haven't been thinking about those for a while summer break
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  has been good for that oh somebody has,
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  ok very good excellent questions alrighty well I think that about does it might
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  have worn you out might have worn out let me catch a nap in between,
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  alrighty well hopefully you guys enjoyed Feel free to share it with somebody
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  if you think they would be interested.
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  And let us know if there's other things we could be talking about. Yeah.
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  Give us some more questions. More questions. Thank you guys for joining us.
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  We'll see you next time. Lord willing.
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  Thank you for joining us for this podcast. Feel free to become part of this
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  ministry by sharing it with others.
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  Our goal is to help each other grow deeper in our understanding of who God is
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  and is calling to us in our daily lives.
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  Thank you again for joining us and may God bless your day. Thank you.