Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 378: What Would Andy May Do?

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Ep. 378: What Would Andy May Do? · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
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  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
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  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three,
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  Speaker 1: and today we're joined by my pale and renowned pressure
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  Speaker 1: land bow hunter Andy May, to break down how we'd
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  Speaker 1: handle some of the most challenging situations and scenarios in
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  Speaker 1: the deer hunting world. All right, welcome to the Wired
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  Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Today in
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  Speaker 1: the show, due to high demand from a lot of listeners,
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  Speaker 1: we're doing another one of these what would you do podcasts?
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  Speaker 1: And the guests that we have, the guests that so
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  Speaker 1: many people have wanted to have for one of these
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  Speaker 1: is the one and only Andy May. Now most of
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  Speaker 1: you are probably familiar with Andy. He's been a frequent
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  Speaker 1: guest on the show. It's one of my best hunting buddies.
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  Speaker 1: But if you're new, here's the back of the baseball
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  Speaker 1: card stats. Andy is from Michigan. He's a dad. He's
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  Speaker 1: a regular nine to five kind of job guy, but
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  Speaker 1: he's found a way to have a level of deer
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  Speaker 1: hunting success that it's pretty much unparalleled, even when comparing
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  Speaker 1: it to a lot of folks with big farms in Iowa.
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  Speaker 1: For these guys that travel all over the country hunting
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  Speaker 1: for a living, he's getting that kind of success level,
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  Speaker 1: but he's doing it very differently than how those guys are.
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  Speaker 1: He's hunting in Michigan or on quick like long weekend type.
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  Speaker 1: D i Y hunts out of state when he can
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  Speaker 1: fit him in and it's on public land or it's
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  Speaker 1: on by permission ground. It's small pieces. For all these
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  Speaker 1: reasons and more, he's become one of the most helpful
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  Speaker 1: guests we've ever had in the podcast, and one of
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  Speaker 1: the most helpful people for me as someone to kind
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  Speaker 1: of be a sounding board. And he's one of the
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  Speaker 1: people I give a call and chat with when I'm wondering,
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  Speaker 1: you know, what do you think about this situation? What
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: what do you think about that? Or he'll tell him
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  Speaker 1: about what he's doing. We'renna bounce ideas around d He's
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  Speaker 1: a great guy to talk to for those kinds of things.
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  Speaker 1: So it seemed like a given that we had to
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  Speaker 1: bring him on to run him through the what would
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  Speaker 1: you do gaunt with So that's what we're gonna do.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to pose a series of hypothetical but detailed
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  Speaker 1: deer hunting scenarios to Andy, and then he's going to
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  Speaker 1: explain what he'd do and why he'd do it. Just
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  Speaker 1: that symbol. We're gonna cover everything from ideas for hunting
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: in October, dealing with the October shift, a lot of
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  Speaker 1: different things around the pre rut and the rut. We
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  Speaker 1: cover the whole season. We cover a lot of things
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  Speaker 1: that can be applicable whether you hunt in Michigan or
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  Speaker 1: Missouri or Mississippi. So yeah, let's just get right into
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  Speaker 1: it without further ado. Let's find out what Andy May
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  Speaker 1: would do. All right, I am back with my pale,
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  Speaker 1: Andy May. Andy, thanks for for hopping on here again. Hey,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: no problem, man, it's always good to chat. It's fun.
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  Speaker 1: I'd like to pick your brain throughout the season, but
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  Speaker 1: usually it's you know, we've got ten minutes here, twenty
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  Speaker 1: minutes there, So it's always a treat that I can
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  Speaker 1: hog you for an hour, an hour and a half.
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  Speaker 1: I glad you can make the time for it. Yeah, well,
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  Speaker 1: no problem anytime. What's uh, what's the hunting season been
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  Speaker 1: looking like for you? We talked, I don't know a
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  Speaker 1: week or two ago, but what's been going on since then?
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  Speaker 1: As far as white tails, um, I mean it's been good.
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  Speaker 1: I shot down to Kentucky for a real quick hunt,
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  Speaker 1: um and had a really awesome hunt. I didn't shoot anything, um,
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  Speaker 1: but that's not to say I didn't have some opportunities
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  Speaker 1: at some nice dear. I saw quite a few what
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  Speaker 1: I thought were like two and three year old bucks. Um.
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  Speaker 1: And then I came really close to getting an opportunity
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  Speaker 1: at a real nice ten um, but swirling winds in
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  Speaker 1: the hills, UM, you know they got me. So he
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  Speaker 1: said he survived, came home empty handed, but hoping to
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  Speaker 1: make it back down there eventually sometime this season. UM.
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  Speaker 1: And then as far as you know my kind of
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  Speaker 1: my home turf, Michigan, northern Ohio. UM, there's a there's
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  Speaker 1: an old buck, real old buck that I'm I would
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  Speaker 1: really like to shoot in Ohio. UM. He's just a
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  Speaker 1: really tricky one in the area he lives and um,
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  Speaker 1: he roams a lot. He covers miles and um it's
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  Speaker 1: really open terrain, so he spends a lot of time
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  Speaker 1: like running those ditches and in standing corn fields and stuff.
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  Speaker 1: So I've been working real hard trying to narrow that down. Um.
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  Speaker 1: I've seen him a few times in the past, got
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  Speaker 1: some pictures of him, so I'm trying to kind of
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  Speaker 1: compile that history and then you know and read trying
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  Speaker 1: to find some of his sign that has you know,
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  Speaker 1: popped up years past and currently. And he's just gonna
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  Speaker 1: be a tricky one. But he's he's a really unique there.
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  Speaker 1: He's it's just a real big six point, like real
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  Speaker 1: big frame, just super cool rap. Yeah. Yeah, he see's
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  Speaker 1: a neat deer. So that's that's the one I would
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  Speaker 1: really like to get there. Um. And then in Michigan
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  Speaker 1: has been it's been a strange year. I I don't
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  Speaker 1: think I've ever scouted so hard preseason as far as
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  Speaker 1: like glassing and checking cramp, checking cameras and and looking
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  Speaker 1: for sign and just big tracks. And I have not
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  Speaker 1: been able to find, um, anything that I would consider mature.
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  Speaker 1: You know that I wanted to go after lots of
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  Speaker 1: two year olds. I finally found a couple of like
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  Speaker 1: three year old bucks. But there they're on the smaller side,
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  Speaker 1: so it's not really anything I'm interested in shooting. But
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  Speaker 1: it's just one of those years. I mean, you know,
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  Speaker 1: every once in a while in Michigan, I get a
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  Speaker 1: year like this where it just seems really thin. Um. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: but it is what it is. It's early and uh,
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  Speaker 1: there's plenty of dolls around. So I'm just trying to
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  Speaker 1: stay on the search, and you know, if nothing, if
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  Speaker 1: I turn anything up here in the next few weeks,
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  Speaker 1: I gotta think there will be some good ones moving in.
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  Speaker 1: Um So I'm just gonna try to keep tabs on
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  Speaker 1: some of the areas I hunt and then move in
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  Speaker 1: when the timing is right. Yeah. I guess that's all
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  Speaker 1: you can do. Um So, you I think you know
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  Speaker 1: how this kind of episode goes, but a little bit
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  Speaker 1: different than some of our past ones. Basically, what I
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  Speaker 1: want to do is lay out a bunch of somewhat
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  Speaker 1: detailed hypothetical scenarios and then have you kind of walked
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: through your thought process, what you'd be thinking about, what
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  Speaker 1: you would do in that scenario, how you would do it, uh,
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  Speaker 1: and so on. Um So, I kind of want to
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  Speaker 1: just jump into it, and I'm gonna send out a
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  Speaker 1: bunch of these and we just kind of see where
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  Speaker 1: it takes us. Um. This first one is pretty detailed, um,
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  Speaker 1: and and you might find it to be something you're
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  Speaker 1: interested in. Uh, let's start with us, Andy, what would
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  Speaker 1: you do if you were hunting a buck that you
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  Speaker 1: had history with? But he ranged over a wide area
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  Speaker 1: miles at times possibly, and he covered an area that
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  Speaker 1: had strange cover like just not allowed timber, big standing
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  Speaker 1: corn fields, open areas. Um. And he's hard to pin
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  Speaker 1: down from one section to the other section. This might
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  Speaker 1: sound familiar. Um, what would you what would you do
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  Speaker 1: in that situation if you were in mid October and
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: you're still trying to figure him out. In that scenario,
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  Speaker 1: how specifically would you try to pin him down? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that sounds very familiar. That's the situation. That's the exact
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  Speaker 1: situation I'm in right now. I'd like to throw a
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  Speaker 1: softball to get started. Yeah, it's very neat, man. I've
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  Speaker 1: never really, I've never kind of had this much intel
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  Speaker 1: on a book. Um. But at the same time felt
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  Speaker 1: so behind the ball with killing him, um because like
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  Speaker 1: you said, he he I have evidence through finding his rubs,
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  Speaker 1: pictures and sightings of a stretch of about pretty much
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  Speaker 1: a triangle of areas right around two and a half
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  Speaker 1: miles is the too farthest points, um, you know, and
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  Speaker 1: that's kind of throughout the season. Um, every time I've
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  Speaker 1: seen him, he has been traveling either into or out
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  Speaker 1: of standing corn. And then I find a lot of
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  Speaker 1: his rubs, um along those ditches that you're talking about
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  Speaker 1: just a little just little flat. Uh. This this area
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  Speaker 1: I'm talking about was extremely flat, like a pool table.
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  Speaker 1: And um, those there's little drainage ditches that kind of
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  Speaker 1: run through some of the fields. So what I did
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  Speaker 1: was I already had permission on real quickly. Sorry, But
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  Speaker 1: these drainage drainage ditches you're talking about, how do you
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  Speaker 1: see him running it? Does he does he run just
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  Speaker 1: on the edge of the crop field up high, or
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  Speaker 1: does he actually run kind of down low in the
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  Speaker 1: ditch part way down the hill. So I've actually I
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  Speaker 1: actually saw this buck pop up out of the out
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  Speaker 1: of one of those ditches. So he will run right
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  Speaker 1: down the middle of them, but I've seen his rubs
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  Speaker 1: going along them. So a lot of these ditches, Um,
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  Speaker 1: the crop fields will kind of go up to the edge,
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  Speaker 1: but then there will be like a little buffer of
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  Speaker 1: kind of like tall wheaty areas, and dear will travel
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  Speaker 1: up and down there and every once in a while
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  Speaker 1: you get kind of like a bushy tree or or
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  Speaker 1: a you know, a good sized tree. And then I
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  Speaker 1: was finding, really what makes his his rubs so distinct
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  Speaker 1: is that he's he just shreds the tree. It looks
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  Speaker 1: like a banana peel, just I mean literally just bart
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  Speaker 1: kind of hanging like open um. And I think it's
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  Speaker 1: just because his antlers are so gnarly and his bases
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  Speaker 1: are so narrowed up. But so I'm trying to put
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  Speaker 1: the puzzle together, the puzzle pieces of like where his
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  Speaker 1: sign is, where I've had sightings, and where I've gotten pictures,
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  Speaker 1: and it literally, you know, in this triangle of properties,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: you know, two and a half mile one of one
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  Speaker 1: of which being public. Um. So what I did this
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: was kind of my strategy is I basically drew this
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  Speaker 1: triangle of kind of his home range or at least
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: part of it, and then I tried to ask permission
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: on everything in between that was planted in corn this
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: summer or had those ditches running through it. And I
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  Speaker 1: was able to pick up one piece. Um. So, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I have a few spots, even though they're small spots
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  Speaker 1: and they don't have much cover they're there, you know,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: four spots that I could potentially run into this deer.
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  Speaker 1: And my my strategy so far this year has been
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to glass every morning I can and try to see
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: him on his feet at first light. And ironically I
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: did that um opening day of Ohio's moost season. In
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the morning, it was like seven fifty and I catch
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a big old rack in the beans and I'm like,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: holy smoke. So I hit the hit the brakes on
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: the truck and I'm glassen and it's him, and he's
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: in a really weird spot somewhere there. I've never seen
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: him before, and he's kind of feeding in these beans,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden he just lays down
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: right in the beans and there's like this little weedy
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: patch um. And then there's this one of those ditches
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I was talking about. This one has some pretty good trees,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: like trees you could get up and hunt out of. Um.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: That kind of wind through that the edge of that
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  Speaker 1: field and it makes actually makes like a forty five
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: degree turn right out kind of in front of where
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: that buck bedded. So I potentially could have gotten in
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: a tree within seventy yards of this buck. And you know,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I watched him bed down. But of course, you know,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: my daughter has a soccer game that day or that afternoon, um,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and I gotta take her. Her mom couldn't make the game.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: So I mean, it's just one of those things. That
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: was probably my best opportunity that I've had at that book.
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  Speaker 1: And I've known about this deer for three years now, Um,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and I just couldn't hunt, but I could hunt the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: next day, and I just banked and hoped he was
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: kind of in that same area and I got up
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  Speaker 1: in the tree that um I kind of had eyeballed,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: and he just wasn't there. So it's just I think
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: it was one of those deals where he's just feeding
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: late in the morning and he kind of got caught
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: out in daylight and he just bedded down in a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: little weedy patch in the middle of beanfield. So, um,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: that's kind of been my strategy, is to glass and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: try to get an eyeball in him. But it's it's
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: ironic you asked this question because I was just talking
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: about it with my hunting buddies. Um, I'm kind of thinking,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: and I don't usually do this. I'm not a guy
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that over hunts a single spot at all. I mean,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I really rarely hunt, you know, a spout more than
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: one or once or twice a season. But because this
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: deer has been so kind of sporadic in his movement. Um,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: there's there's two or three spots where I know he
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: was in daylight last year throughout the season. One one
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  Speaker 1: spot in uh specifically it is like this little tiny
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  Speaker 1: thicket but had it has these like locust trees in there.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Looked at the pods and he was feeding on those.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: But what's cool about these trees They have all these
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: low hanging branches and this area was just scraped up.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And I had him on camera three or four times
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: in daylight throughout the season, and it was just wasn't
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: in a certain time frame. It was like, you know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: early October and then mid October, and then late October
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and then and then maybe one more time early November,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: and then I saw him a couple of times um
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: around there too. Um just glassing and whatnot. But I'm
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I'm almost considering every time I got a good win
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: just to camp out in that spot, and just it
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: might it might that in conjunction with glassing in the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: mornings might be my best strategy and just hope pass
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: cross and I'm I'm kind of getting in this rut
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: which I don't like to do, where I'm like stuck
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: on one deer because you know, I've done that in
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the past, and a lot of times it just doesn't
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: seem like it worked out. You know, I had one
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: buck that got poached, another one trespasser shot another one.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: You just lose track of them, or sometimes the deer
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: just wins, you know, and then you you know, you
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: wasted your whole season kind of on this one deer.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I know that. Feeling well andy, yeah, but um to
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: be honest with there, there's there's nothing else really around
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: that I've seen. There's some nice deer, but nothing that
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm real excited to go after. So you know, I
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: don't really mind it in this case, I guess, and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: if I don't get them, I don't get them. You know,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: it's not that big a deal. But I'm considering that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: it's just it's just a boring way to hunt for me.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: But it might be the best way for this particular
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: buck is to just stay kind of persistent in one
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: spot and just play that win perfect and try to
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: put in some time. Um it reminds me of there's
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: a guy that, um, he's been on a few podcasts lately.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: He'd be a great guest, by the way, but he
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: he was. I loved his material really early on in
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: my career. His name is Bobby Worthington. I'm trying. I'm
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: actually pitt on the phone. We're trying to get him
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: on the phone right now. Okay, Yeah, A phenomenal, phenomenal
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: rut hunter, I mean just and he in his whole
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: strategy is when he's he's often after one buck and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: he hunts this kind of hill country, big woods type stuff,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and he threw his scouting. He tries to find the
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: one tree that that buck passes through the most u
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: in in his hunting area the most, the one tree
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: or that deer will pass by more times than any
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: other tree. And then he will literally sit daylight to
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: dark in that same spot every time the winds right
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: until he gets a crack at him. And I've never
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: really thought of that as a strategy until now, until this, dear,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: because I've really had a hard time pinning him, don't
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: like I've seen him day to day like a mile apart,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: you know, or a trail camp picture a mile and
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: a half here, and then a trail camp picture over here,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: you know, a mile and a half the other way.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So it's just one of those deals where that might
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: be a sound strategy. So right now, that's kind of
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: where I'm at with that. Now. I know you're a
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: guy though. That's you know, talked so much about the
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: importance of the first sit I know that something you
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: love that has paid off for you so many times.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: It's hunting someplace for the very first time, and that's
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: when you kill him. Is the reason that you think
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: that you can get away with just camping out in
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the spot is the reason that might work in this
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: situation because of the fact this dear roam so wildly widely,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: So it's not like you know, you might hunt four
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: days in that spot. It could be four days in
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: a row, but you know, three of those four days
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: he might be a mile away, and you're just hoping
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that you need to hunt enough times to catch that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: one day out of seven when he does pass through there,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: and even though you were there all these days prior,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: you're hoping he was, so he doesn't know that you
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: were there. He hasn't smelled you yet. Etcetera. Is that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: the calculus exactly. Yeah, And this this area in question
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: is very low deer density. So I think part of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the reason these deer move around so much is because
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the low deer numbers and low cover, so they literally
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: have to move to be social into kind of check
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: their core area. And I think their core areas are
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: much larger than I initially thought when I started hunting
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: this this type of area. But um, I really think
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: that that might be. And I don't know that that's
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the actual tree that he goes by the most. It
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: may not be. I probably don't have access to that tree, um,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: but I think it's the best chance I got, And
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I think that's what I'm gonna try to do every
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: time I get the right wind for that, is just
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: to put in my time in that spot. I rarely
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: ever spook deer in that area because because of the
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: low deer density, and if they do, they kind of
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: they come kind of passed through, and they scrape and
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: work those branches, and I've seen them feed on those
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: locust pods a little bit um, but then they're gone,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's it's it's kind of one of
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: those spots that's very low risk. Um, so I don't
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: feel as weird about hunting it more um than someone
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: like my other spots in Michigan where there might be
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: more dear interesting. Yeah, okay, Well I do hope that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: this particular hypothetical turns out to be a real success
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: story here soon. Um. Yeah, yeah, we'll see. Here's here's
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: another one, um, and this one's very detailed because this
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: is pulled from a real life example as well. Um,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: here's the situation. You are uh, stuck hunting a couple
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of locations because you are you're helping somebody hunt. You're
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: helping someone try to get let's say this hype of
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: it's your daughter. Let's say we're trying to kill it
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: dear for your daughter. Will say, and you're only gonna
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: hunt preset blinds to get your daughter. This deer a deer,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And you're not super picky about you know what you're
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: gonna shoot. You're not holding out for a four or
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: five year old buck. You want to get a decent buck.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: So here's the snare. You go out and hunt a
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: spot that's the best spot on the farm that you
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: know of, and we're gonna say this one farm, you're hunting.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: You hunt your number one spot that you have a blind.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: It's close to a bedding area. There's some really nice
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: small isolated food sources um. And cover that you're blind
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: is set up and looking over in this case like
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a little food plot maybe um. And then there's some
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: standing crop fields back a couple hundred yards behind you,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: a neighboring properties. That's your setup for the first night,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: and that first night works out wonderfully. Um. A bunch
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: of deer come out. You see a bunch of bucks,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: but you know it doesn't pan out. You're not able
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to get a shot at the deer. Um. But you
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: saw eight bucks, including several bucks that would have been shooters.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: No shot, And there are some deer that spook some
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: doughs are blowing. And to get out of there that night,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you had to have the field cleared out by someone
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: coming to pick you up on an a t V. Okay,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: so that's what happened on night number one. A lot
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: of activity, but there was some light spooking. Okay, you
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: have two options for the next day. You go back
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: to that same spot and know that yes, there was
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: some activity, but you did still see a lot of
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: bucks that didn't get spooked, including those couple of shooters. Um,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: but they were just not arrange. So you could you
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: go back to that same place and hope for you know, yeah,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: there would be some impact because of what happened last night,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: but there's still a lot of other deer that could
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: come through. Um, you're not being super picky. It's not
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: like you're after just one buck. You're after one of
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: like fifteen different you know, two year old or three
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: year old bucks that have shown up on a camera.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: So that's option A or option B. You have one
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: other blind that would work with the wind direction you have,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: but it's on the other side of the property that's
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: historically not nearly as good. Um. There is a house
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: in a yard within sight of that blind that if
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: God forbid at last light, the neighbor decided to come
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: out and start banging around, that could possibly impact your hunt. Um.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: But you do have a nice little food source that's
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: right by betting on this side too. And you did
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: get a shooter buck on trail camera the day before
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: you check to sell cam, and so you've got a
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: shooter buck that was there the night before. You had
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: two shooter bucks at the other spot the night before. Um,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: But there was a little bit of negative activity there.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: So there's your two possible options. There's some good things
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: going for both, there's some negative things going for both. UM,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: walk me through some of the things you'd be thinking
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: about when trying to decide between these two possible options
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: with that wind and what you would what you would
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: lean towards. So the two shooters didn't spook in Spot A,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and then you did have a shooter that recently in
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: spot in Spot B. Yeah, there were shooters at both
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: spots on night number one, but the but the shooters
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: on the shooters in spot number one, we're probably lightly
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: spooked by the a TV after dark, but they weren't
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: spooked at all by wind or by sight or anything
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: like that. Plus, there's just a bunch of bucks, right,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: there's eight bucks, and there's many other deer that have
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: been showing up on camera over there. While in position B,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: not nearly as much activity on camera, not nearly as
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: many deer, maybe one or two or three deer max
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: from what you've seen in the past and what cameras
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: are telling you. But you did have a shooter there
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: that night too. Y Um. Well, you know I'd probably
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: in this scenario, I'd probably talk about it with my
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: daughter or the person I was with and and tell
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: them the positives and negatives of you know, maybe each choice,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and let them decide, like maybe spot b. Hey, there's
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: a there's you know, a good one that came through here,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: but a lot less dear um. So there's you know,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: there's a chance that we might get that one, but
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: there's also a chance we might not see much at all. Um.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Or there's where we sat last night where we saw
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of deer um, but they did get spooked.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: So you know, are probably our chance of success went
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: down slightly, but there's still some chance of success there. UM.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know if if I was I guess if
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I was with my daughter, I would probably or anyone
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: that was kind of okay with shooting, like any decent buck,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I would probably stick in the area that had more
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: of the action, um at least for one more day. Um.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: You know, if the if the target deer weren't spooked.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, my my my experiences in Michigan, if if
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: you know, if when I spooked that target buck, I
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: rarely get another chance at him um in that area
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times I just lose track of
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: them all together. Um. So as long as they weren't spooked, UM,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I would feel confident going in there again, at least
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: for one more sit. But the other deer that were
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: around are probably gonna be a little more cautious, and
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: you know, any type of mature animal will start to
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: pick up on that. So you probably have a little short,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: shorter window in that spot. But I would give that up.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I'd probably give that another sit if it was more
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: dear and more entertaining to, you know, the person that
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: was hunting. And I think that's probably why I talk
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: about it with them and let them kind of decide. Well,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: this was the exact Sinaire. I was in yesterday Andy
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: with my dad, and so I did exactly what you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: said that I talked through these pros and cons with
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: my dad, and I was kind of a fifty fifty
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: coin flip on it, thinking through exactly the same things
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you said were what I was thinking. UM, And I said, hey,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: this is the scenario. You know, I'm kind of fifty fifty.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: If you've got a gut, or if you've are particularly
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: more excited about one or the other, you know, I,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: you know, let's let's see what you think, and and
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: my dad kind of leaned towards probably sitting the same
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: place that we did the night before, simply because it's
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: a more target rich environment, which is kind of what
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I was thinking too, knowing that that there would be
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: less activity, that you know, that it would be impact
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: in some way, but maybe we could still have a
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: decent night um, and we weren't being super picky with
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: what we want to shoot. Yeah, so that's what we did.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: We went back last night and it didn't work out.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: We know, we went from seeing like twenty deer, including
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: eight bucks and two definite shooters, to seeing three deer.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: We saw two year and a half ole bucks in
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a dough and that was it. So it was a
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it was a big change from night one to night
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: to UM. I did not expect it to be that dramatic.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I thought, I knew it wasn't gonna be as good,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: but I thought, you know, there might be a decent
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: buck still that was somewhere else last night, or um,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you know, there's there's plenty of other deer in the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: air they could roll through, but but didn't pan out.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: You never know exactly why partly definitely some impact from
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: our pressure. Sometimes it could just be outside factors too,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I probably if it were just me hunting,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I probably would have put one more sid in that
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: spot and then I would go to Spot B the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: next day if if the wind allowed. That's probably probably
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: what I would do, as long as the target deer
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: didn't get spooks. But you know, I mean, I I
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: was just talking about this with my friend Justin Wright,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Uh yesterday about um he he just recently shot a
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: really nice buck and he actually bumped it, um bumped
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: it out of its bed early in the afternoon, around three,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: and then he set up over the bed that immediately
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: and shot that buck, coming back to check out what
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: it bumped him out. And I had never had that
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: kind of luck here in Michigan, but I have seen
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: that type of behavior um out of state a little
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: less pressured, dear. So I mean, I know guys get
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: sick of hearing it, but I've wanted a lot of states,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and I I don't really it doesn't really do me
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: any good to say, you know that our our deer
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: here are harder to hunt. I truly believe they are,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and they just they just don't get you don't get
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: to make mistakes with these deer, and I've made plenty
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: of them, and it's just you just no room for air. Um.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So I mean, obviously, if you've got some private ground
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and you can control pressure a little bit, you gotta
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: maybe a little more room. But it's, uh, it's tough.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: They're real, real sensitive to to change in their environment
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and to the pressure. For sure. Yeah that's the truth.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: So okay, let's let's run through some different hypotheticals that
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: aren't tied to yours in my own situations right now. Um,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: but something that's tied to pressure. Let's say it's October
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and you're hunting one of these small properties that you
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: hunt in Michigan that has a lot of hunters all
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: around it. There's probably some other guys that hunt the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: same property that you're hunting. To you, for whatever reason,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you decided to slip into some thick cover and you're
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: hunting in there, and towards the last half hour of light,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: a big mature buck does step out, but he's moving
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: quickly out of range. You try a like contact grind maybe,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: but no response. So now you've got one or two options.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I would hypothectly say, you could either get more aggressive
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: with your calling and try a snort wise or rattle
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: or big buck roar or something to try to get
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: his attention, or does that seem too aggressive for that
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: time of year in a heavily pressured area where there's
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: been hunters all over the place, and instead you would
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: just let him talk because getting crazy with him probably
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: do more harm than good. Which which of those scenarios
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: or which are those choices would you choose? Or is
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: there something different entirely that you would be thinking about? Yeah,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: if he didn't respond to just a kind of a
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: light contact grunt, I would just let him walk and
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I would I would watch and see, how, you know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: depending on how much daylight is left, I would see
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: where he travels, what what what Treacy travels by, and
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: then I would try to, um, if wind permitted, try
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: to set up along that travel route the very next day. UM.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: So that time of year, I mean, things things change
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: with you know, with different wind directions and whatnot. But
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: there's a good chance, um that he could be betted
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: in a very if not in the same bed, in
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: very close proximity to where he was, especially if there's
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: no dramatic change in wind. Um. So a lot of
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: what I see in October are like very short, little
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: little patterns. Okay, like, um, I'll see a good deer
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: in an area, but often he'll be doing something similar
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: for like very short spurt maybe two days, maybe five days,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: and then it's it's something else, whether it's a change
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: due to pressure, it's a change due to um, you know,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: possibly changes in food, um. You know, crops coming down,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: acorns dropping, um. You know. There's a lot of a
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: lot of different scenarios there that could cause like pattern changes.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: But that's what I've noticed, and that's how I've had
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: my best luck with my October kills is it's quickly um,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: noticing these these short patterns and then trying to move
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: in and get the job done quickly, because like if
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I were to in the past, there's been times where like, okay,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait until I get you know, a cool front,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe six seven, eight days later or something,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: and then the deer is completely gone, like no sightings,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: no pictures, no sign um. So I I like to
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: in that scenario that you um, that you explained, I
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: think I would definitely just kind of let him do
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: his thing, but I would try to move in and
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: capitalize on that the very next day. Um. And probably
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: if probably, if I didn't get it done the next day,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: probably even try something similar or maybe it just lately
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: the day after. And if I don't have a sighting
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: or get it done, then I'm kind of back to
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: square one. Um, maybe trying to relocate that, dear. Now,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: would you do anything differently if I described everything the
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: same except for I changed the date from October to November, Yeah,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: would Yeah, I would definitely. Um, I would probably be
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: a little I would give more of maybe like more
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: of like a tending grunt or maybe more like a
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: long drawn out grunt call. I've had good luck with
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: that rather than just the short, little kind of contact grunts.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: And if he didn't respond, or if I got his
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: attention it looked like he was somewhat interested, I would
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: probably I would probably do some rattling. Um. I haven't
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: had dramatic luck in Michigan with rattling, but I've killed
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: quite a few early on with rattling, mostly two and
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: three year old books. Um. But I wouldn't be afraid
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: to do it that that time of year, especially if um,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: you know we're talking November five, It's like, uh, he
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: he could be doing something completely different in the very
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: next day, you know, so I wouldn't feel as confident
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: um kind of letting him walk and move in and
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: setting up the very next day he might still be
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: in that area. Uh, I mean very likely what he
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: could be. You know, it could be chasing a doll,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: you know, six d yards away over here in this thicket,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's just one of those deals. The
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: timing is everything, and and what decision I would make
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: in that scenario, I guess. So Okay, So one more
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: iteration of that. Let's say you tried to get more
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: aggressive with a grunt. You tried rattling, and he just
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: kind of I was like, Matt, I'm just continuing on.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: He just moves off. But it's November five still, So
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: now you just told me that you wouldn't be as
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: confident with moving in there for the next day. But
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: would you still do it anyways, given that scenario, would
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you still move over there or or what? In that case?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Honestly like something like that. If I saw something like
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: that November five, Um, say I grunted to him. No
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: real response I rattled to him still walking away, I
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: would be more likely to jump out of my tree
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: at that moment and try to use terrain or cover
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: to kind of get over to where that deer is heading.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Either cut him off or get into the wood lot
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: that he's heading into the river bottom the thicket. Um,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I would probably try to move in closer to where
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: that deer was if it's a if it's a true
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: big buck, a target deer um, something like that in
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Michigan during that time frame, I have such a hard
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: time killing a specific buck. Um during those probably November,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I would say November four on um until until you
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: get like more into like later season. I have a
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: really hard time zooming in on a specific buck. So
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I would probably if that was the deer I was after,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I would probably throw it all stops, and I don't know,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I feel I feel I would feel more confident getting
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: on the ground and try and do sneak in close,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: trying to stalk that deer um, like I said, cut
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: him off, or even just get into that wherever he's going,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Just get into that next little bit of cover and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you know, just try to play the win and try
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: to get as close as I can, I would feel
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: way more confident with that, having um a higher chance
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: of success than going and sitting along that travel route
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that he took on November five the next day. Interesting. Interesting,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: it's a ballsy move, Andy, ballsy move. Um. I was
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna fast forward a little bit because i
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: had a question that is very related to what you
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: just described there. Um, I'm curious how you would think
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: through this slight adjustment on that. Let's say it's that
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: same kind of time frame November one five, somewhere in
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: that first week in November, and you spot a buck
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: betted with the dough. It's late morning, let's say ten am,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: and you're glassing, and then you see antlers shining in
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the distance and you realize it's a shooter buck. Maybe
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you know you're not after one specific buck, but it's
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: it's a buck that you would shoot with a dough. Uh.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And You've got these different options for the rest of
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the day. You could waited out all day and hope
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: that they swing by you. You could get out of
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: your tree and try to reposition to a tree closer
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to where they are, or you could try to sneak
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: in for an actual spot and stock kill on those
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: deer while they're betted. Um. But I want to preface
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: all this with it. It is not a super windy day.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: It's not really windy. It's just kind of like an
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: average let's say five seven eight mile winds something like that. UM,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: walk me through that situation. Yeah, So when I see
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: that during that time frame, unless unless I have a
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: clear indication that I think they're kind of headed, he's
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: pushing her my way, I'm more likely, UM, if I
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: see them betted, I'm more likely going to get down
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: and try to reposition as close as I can. That
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: might mean depending on um, you know, on the train,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: on the food situation. It might look something like, Okay,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I think that doll is gonna get up and head
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: this way, or I think that that deer is gonna
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: push that doll farther this way down, you know, down
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: the cover. I might potentially try to do a ground
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: set up or get up in a tree, you know, quickly.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: It might be a hundred yards from them, it could
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: be sixty. It just depends on how quietly UM I
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: could get into that spot. UM. The only way I
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: would do UM a spot in stock is if they
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: were just in that perfect spot where I could I
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: could get close to them down wind silently within bow range.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: But on a real calm day, that's that's a tricky one.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Unless you got like maybe like a small creek bottom
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: or something that kind of winds through and you could
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: you know, stay low, you know, in the water to
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: hide your noise a little bit, and then you could
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: pop up and be you know, maybe within bow range
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and then just kind of wait for them to stand
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: and make the mistake. UM So, probably either one of
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: those scenarios I would choose, depending on what I felt
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: was most likely going to happen. Probably the best if
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you could somehow use the terrain and hide your noise,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: uh to get within bow range and then just sit
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and wait, that would probably be my number one choice.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: But if I didn't feel confident doing that, I would
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: just try to determine the most likely direction of travel
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: once they get up, and I would just try to
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I would just try to get elevated in a tree
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: if possible. If not, I would just kind of set
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: up on the ground somewhere. And I've I've I've done
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: that same exact scenario a bunch and it definitely doesn't
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: always work out, but I've killed a few that way.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Um My biggest Michigan gun buck was killed that way.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: It wasn't with a bow, but I ended up shooting
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: him at bow range. But it definitely is one of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: those scenarios where when you see one bedded with a dough,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's time to get aggressive. If they're if
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: they're out of range and they're not gonna you're pretty
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: confident they're not gonna come your way. I'm getting down
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and I'm repositioning. As long as you don't bump that dough,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: you're you're good to go. Because he's he's got all
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: his attention on her. So you just have to beat
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: that one deer. M all right, one more version of this.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Let's say you do that, you reposition, you're set up,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the dough gets up, and they start walking away from
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: your new spot, and it's it's I don't know, I guess,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I don't care what part of the day it is,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: but they're walking away. Do you throw a bunch of
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: calls at him and try to somehow break that buck
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: off or or or what do you do in that scenario?
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: So this takes me back to a hunt that I
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: had in Iowa a few years back, and there was
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: this awesome, heavy, tight racked nine point you ended up
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: being eleven um, but he was the main frame nine.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: He had some junk kickers and stuff, and he was
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: betted with a dough, and from the opposite side, this
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: good looking, I don't know, three or four year old
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: big seven point comes strolling across this crp field, and
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: that that buck that was approaching let out this this big, long,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: drawn out grunt, And it was so cool because the
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: so imagine between me and the dough. The big buck
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: was betted, the dough was betted about fifteen yards from him,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: and then this other one was approaching like further away
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: from me, so he let this big, drawn out grunt,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: and that that big buck stood up and immediately met
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: that other deer and started walking him off. So I
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: think if you can, if you could somehow get in
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: his bubble and and make some sort of challenge like that,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: there's a pretty good chance that he might respond. But
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: if he's moving away from you and you're a hundred
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: yards away, I think they just continue to move away.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: So again, everything, all these scenarios are situational, but I
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: think if you could get in that bubble where he
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: feels like he has to defend, then you've got a
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: much better chance. What happened in that scenario is that
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: buck met that big seven, walked him off, and then
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: the dog got up because she was, you know, free
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: for him, and she started running my way. So he
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: walked that buck off. The dough comes running right under me,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: and then he turns around and sees the dolls running
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: and here he comes, and then I ended up shooting him.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it was. It was a really cool, a
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: really cool hunt in it. It I I learned there that,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I think if you if you can get
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: in that bubble where they feel like they have to
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: address you, you've got a much better chance in that
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: scenario of getting a response. But if they're you know,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: a hundred yards off, moving away from you, and you're
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: sitting there rattling and grunting, I don't think he's gonna
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: come that far. You gotta be in close. Okay, all right,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: here's here's when we're gonna rewind back into October now, um,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: and it's it's it's quite similar to what you're dealing
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: with in Michigan at say, Um, but let's say it's
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: mid mid October, second week of October, and you were
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: seeing Bucks in the summer, some good Bucks in the summer,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: and maybe even still into September, but it's been bligh.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: It's been dark since the season opened, basically as far
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: as nothing moving in daylight. You're still seeing some Bucks,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: but there's some trail camera there's still some trail camera data,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: but it's all nighttime stuff. Um, and it's now middle
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of October. How would you with just that information at
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: a high level, how would you approach the snare? Would
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: you just stay away from your stuff and not hunt
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: your good stuff until later in the month, or would
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: you try to seek them out in a more aggressive
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: fashion in mid October? I Mean, it just depends on
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about here. If we're talking about you know, uh,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: if I'm a guy that owns my private acres and
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: it's just me, um, you know, or maybe something smaller
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: than that, I'm gonna be less likely to pull off
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: something super aggressive, like you know, searching through the property. Um,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: if there's good dough activity and whatnot, I probably unless
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I had a really good, really good knowledge of of
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: where I thought these deer were Um, I would probably
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: wait until, you know, the action picks up like later
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: October and kind of start hunting the dough areas. That's
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: not really that's not really my style. I have a
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: hard time doing that, and I don't really I don't
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: know for me personally, I'm always kind of looking for
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: what worth what that big buck is doing now, and
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: if I can't find one, I'm constantly searching. And that's
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: kind of what I'm in right now. I'm just looking
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: for a buck that I can hunt. And there's some
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: spots that I hunt that have good dough activity, so
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: I do feel that those are going to pick up
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: later in the month. But I'm not gonna sit back
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: and do nothing. So I'm I'm trying to leave those
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: areas alone because they're small enough where there's just not
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: enough room, um to really like maneuver. And I don't
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: really necessarily think there's a big buck living in there.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: That's I don't know about and in any of those areas,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: but I know they're good areas, um, So I'm just
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: trying to let those just let the dose kind of
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: do their thing, you know, without being bothered, and then
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: when the action picks up, that's when I'll slip in
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: and that's when I have really good success on those
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: you know, first sit, second sit maybe um, when you
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: just haven't been in there all season. But in the meantime,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: I'm doing tons of scouting, like more than I ever have,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: just trying to find a buck that I can go
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: after now. And that's why I've been spending more time
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: in Ohio. Actually haven't even hunted Michigan yet because I
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: can't find a shooter buck to go after. And so
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: in what specifically is that scouting looking like right now, Well,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: it's been a min of glassing. Um, I've been doing
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: some glassing. I've been running more cameras than I ever have.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I've never been a big like camera numbers guy. I've
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: actually owned I don't know, eight or nine cameras, but
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I've rarely have more than like four or five out.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: I got them all out right now, and I'm trying
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: to find something. Um. And then I've been doing a
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: lot of just what I call like still hunting scouting
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: with your bow, um, like you know, just kind of
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: sneaking around and looking for hot sign something that indicates
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: a mature deer, a big track, big rubs, um, you know,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: anything along those lines that would lead me towards an
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: older deer that I might be able to go after.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: But I've just been striking out at every turn. But
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not two worked up about it. It's just it's
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: just one of those years where things are a little thin.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: But like I said, there's good dough activity and on
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: years like that, I don't have one to go after early. Um.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: To me, it's just like you keep looking, but then
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: you just wait for that, you know, a little bit
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: closer to the run late October, you get some more
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: action in those areas and then you just try to
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: slip in and get the job done on a good one. Okay,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: how about this. Let's say we're getting a little bit
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: later in the month, but it's not quite late late October.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Let's October, and kind of like your scenario you're describing,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: you're not getting daylight pictures of bucks that you want
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: to hunt. Maybe you haven't got any of these bucks
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: you want hunt on camera yet, but you know where
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: you think there's a buck from past years. You think
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: this buck is still around and you know him kind
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: of well, and a cold front hits at that time
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: of year, a pretty a decent cold front maybe, like
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, low teens type temperature drop from the
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: highs from one day to the next. Would that be
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: enough of a trigger for you to go into one
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: of these spots where historically this buck has been, even
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: though you don't have pictures of him in any of
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: those low impact spots yet, um or do you need
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: to have something more? UM? I would probably so, Like
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: those October cold fronts are just man, They're they're just gold.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I've had some of my best hunts, UM, So I
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: won't miss in October cold front. But I definitely want
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: to be in an area that I have confidence in.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Like I I really have a hard time hunting anything now,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: just kind of sitting and hoping that a big buck
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: is in the area. I want. I need something. I
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: need his sign, I need rubs, I need a track,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I need a picture, I need a sighting. Um. But
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: if I if I have any of that, then yes,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: I have the confidence to go in. I'm it's so
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: depending on what kind of intel you have, I might
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: hunt a bed that I've scouted, um, you know, during
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: that time of year, especially whether a cold front, if
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: it looks like a a bed that a mature buck
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: has used, or um a good bed in an area
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: where I know a mature buck is living, even though
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I don't have necessarily a picture of him, but in
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: the past, you know he had been there. You know,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of times in October what I'll do
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: is I'll just kind of bounce from bed to bed
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: that I've scouted, even though I don't have um specific
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: intel like a picture or a sighting. That's so I
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: used to do a lot when I had a lot
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: more time, but now it's like I try to be
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: much more picky and choosy and efficient. I guess, so
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I don't have like all those days to just throw
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: sits at all those beds. So I like more of
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: a confirmation of sign, a vision the WOL or a
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: trail camp picture to have the confidence and go in
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: for that that hunt because I might only get like
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: two days a week to really get after it. Um,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: but that that late October I've had, I mean, I'm
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: that mid October. Anytime in October where the I've had
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: that cold front hit, I've had such good activity, but
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: I would still want to be had that confidence that
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I'm in that area where a buck that I'm after
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: is that, So I would I would. I wouldn't just
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: go I wouldn't just go sit anywhere I might. I mean,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: I might sit an observation stand in a in an
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: area where I could see a long ways. I do
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: that often. I mean that's when I say I'm glassing.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: A lot of times that's I'm in an observation stand,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: not necessarily expecting to kill, but expecting to are hoping
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: to see something that I can move in on. Um.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: So it's not like I'm just sitting on the edge
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: of the road. You know. Sometimes down in Ohio that's
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: okay because it's so flat and you can see a
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: long ways. But a lot of times I'm up in
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: a tree somewhere, but I still want that comp It's
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: that I'm in an area where a buck is now, um,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: and not just kind of hoping. I don't know if
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: that answers the question good enough. Yeah, I know it does.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: It does, and I I get what you're saying. Um,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: what if we flip this scenario. Um, Well, let let's
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: change the scenario a little bit more than just flipping it.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Let's take that same time frame somewhere in that late
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: teens of October, and you're doing something that I know
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: you do often, which is go on one of these
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: kind of short out of state trips. Maybe it's a
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: long weekend a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. And since things
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: haven't been going very good in Michigan and you're struggling
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: to find this buck in Ohio, you decide, you know what,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna do a flyer. I'm just gonna go
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: to Missouri maybe or Kentucky and hunt a spot I've
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: never hunted before. But you found some public land that
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: look decent, and I'm just gonna try it for four days.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: You're showing up sight unseen. I know you like to
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: have previous scouting on a spot like this, but for
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: some reason you didn't. Maybe it's because I told you
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: you couldn't and you had to show upset and seen
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: and kill a buck. Um. And let's say this is
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: a relatively small piece of public land. I don't know,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: a couple hundred acres give or take. Um. It's all timber.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: There's some topography, some ups and downs, some ditches, some
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, but relatively mono culture as far as
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: most Lily timber, and then you have crop fields on
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: the outside edges let's say on it's it's let's say
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: it's a rough rectable type oval type shape with crops
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: on neighboring properties on your north west and east, and
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: then the road access is from the south, and you've
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: got four days. Walk me through day one, how you
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: would try to wrap your head around trying to find
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: a decent buck in this kind of given all that
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: very generic you know set up. Walk me through how
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: you might think through this hypothetical scenario for October nineteenth
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: ish that weekend, um, and you're trying to figure something
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: out on this brand new place. Yeah. So, even even
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: out of state and in an area that gets less
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: pressure than Michigan, I mean that time frame, I still
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: feel like you're gonna have to be You're gonna have
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: to get close to where those bucks are bedded. Um.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: So if I don't have any pre scouting, I most
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: likely would really dig deep on those maps, um looking
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: at topo in aerial and I would probably circle um
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: or at least drop a pin on the likely areas
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: that I think that jump out to me that these
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: these are probably areas to scout out and then what
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: I would do is I would literally I would throw
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: a stay under a saddle on, and I would have
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: my boat, and I would scout my way in and
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I would check all these areas. And like I said,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: I hunt from I like to still hunt and kind
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: of uh scout my way into areas like this that
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: I don't have previous knowledge. And then I'm either I'm
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: looking for something that's gonna tell me like this this
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: is the spot. So I'm looking for that hot sign,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: these these fresh rubs, these fresh scrapes that time of year. Um,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: you can capitalize on that stuff. If it's in close
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: proximity to betting now in Michigan, that you might need
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: to be really really close because they're just not going
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: to move as far. Are are a high pressured area.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: If it's slightly less pressured, you got a little more
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: wiggle room there. Um. And I would feel like in
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: a state like Missouri, I mean, I know they do
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: get pressured, but I would feel confident, um, kind of
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: just still hunting and scouting my way back into these spots,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: and if I see something I like, I might set
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: up right then and there. If if it looks hot
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm close enough to where I
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: where I'm estimating where you know, these bucks are betted
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: or this buck, Um, I would set up right there,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: and if I don't find it, I might keep still
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: hunting all the way towards that betting and just just
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: keep sneaking along and glassing and looking at sign. If
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: I don't ever find anything, um, then I just go
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: to Plan B. You know, a different spot that I marked.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: So I at that time of year when I would
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: expect them to be kind of more on a bed
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: to feed pattern and you know, maybe just starting to
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: kind of like mark their territory a little more, um,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: you know, if if it's cold, even better, you know,
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: more scraping activity, more rubbing activity. But I would really
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: be looking for that big buck sign. And the closer
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: it is to the betting or where I think they're betting,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: the the better more confident I feel about setting up
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: on that. And if I'm seeing stuff down by the
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: field edge, um, you know that that might tell me
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: there's a good one in the area. But I still
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: would like to relate back to the betting a little
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: closer on some sort of traveler out to and from
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: so that that's probably how I would do it. I
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Zach Zack Fairmall and I talked about this because we're
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: very similar in this way that you know, when going
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: into a new area like that outside of the rut,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Like in the rut, it's it's pretty simple, like I
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: can set up on doe betting, like likely doe betting,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: UM just with some quick scouting or a good funnel
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: that just you know, connects too big pieces of cover
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: and you could have a really good hunt just by
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: doing that during the rut, but that time of year,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: UM without pre scouting. I want to be on the
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: ground and I want to be able to read the
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: sign kind of moving through the cover, and when I
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: find something that says, hey, this is where I need
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: to be, everything adds up. I'm close, you know, I'm
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: close to these betting points, and there's good sign here.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: These are big rubs, there's big tracks here. This this
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: dish crossing is really beat down. There's some big tracks,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: you know, something like that, something that tells me like
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: this is the spot with only four days, I'm gonna
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: be real aggressive. And in that scenario, it's not even
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: that big a deal. If I if I did bump one,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: you know, if I if it was like some sort
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: of like soft bump or something, I feel like I
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: could maybe maneuver and and still have a play at
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: that book as long as he didn't smell you. I mean,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: that's not what I would want to do. But if
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: it did happen, at least okay, I got a buck
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: that's betted up on this ridge. I mean, that's a
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: lot more info than you then you knew beforehand. And
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: in a lot of cases, I think in those other
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: states you can get away with a little soft bump
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: like that. Like my buddy, my buddy justin just pulled
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: it off in Missouri. Um, on public land. Um, So
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: you can do that. It's just you gotta be smart
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: with it and don't go around necessarily trying to bump deer.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm not saying that, but that hot sign, I think,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: you know, just finding where those those deer are now, Um,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: that's really what I would focus on in that scenario. Yeah.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: So what about that example you just described there where
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: you do bump one. Um. We've talked to a lot
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: of different people who have described what they do when
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: they bump a buck. But what would you specifically do
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: if if you just were scouting your way in just
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: like that and you bumped him, would you would you
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: do the bumping dump type thing like Justin tried to
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: do and set up right then and there, um and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: and assuming that's what you're gonna say you're gonna do,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: or if you are going to do that, talk me
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: through exactly how you would try to pick the right
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: tree to do that. Yeah, So, like like a soft bump,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: I was just typed. We were discussing it just yesterday
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: or two days ago. Maybe, Um, a soft bump and
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: a state that has a little bit less pressure. I
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: am gonna if it's early in the afternoon, say say,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: any time between like eleven and three somewhere in there,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna set up down wind of where that
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: deer was betted, and I would try to pick a
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: tree where he's gonna you know, he's probably gonna approach
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: that bed downwind, I would set up right then and there.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: If it's a soft bump, meaning he didn't really know
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: what you were, he heard something, he kind of takes off.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: You hear him. He's not going a hundred miles an hour,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: but he takes off kind of bounds away maybe see
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: him walking away, Um, but he doesn't necessarily get your
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: your scent. I think if if that's the case, then
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have any confidence in in setting up there.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: But you got to assume that the smart hunters playing
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: the wind as they're scouting their way in. But I
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: would set up downwind of where that deer was betted.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: And from my experience, like with with scrapes and beds,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: like somewhere in that seventy five yard to thirty yard range,
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: I've seen deer approach those areas downwind, somewhere in that window,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: you know. And it's like, you don't know exactly, but
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: I would look somewhere in that range, preferably like on
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: the on the farther side of that especially, you know,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: if they were bumped, um, and I would sit at
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: that afternoon and if he didn't come through, I would
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: be back there that morning. And then if if you
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: don't get him, then I'm onto the next one. Okay,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Interesting would you would you let's say that scenario is happening,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: you set up down wind of that spot, the bucks
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: coming in back to the bed. It actually is kind
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: of working out the way you wanted to. But you
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: can see he's not going to come and range for
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: a shot. Do you risk trying to call to him
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: given the fact that you just bumped him a couple
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: of hours ago and he's already on edge, or do
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: you just wait and try again the next day or something.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: I would probably, Man, that's tough. Yeah, yeah, I mean
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of that just goes to like the temperament
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: of the deer too. I mean, I think some deer
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: seemed to let things go more. You know, some bucks
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: seemed seemed to kind of not be as affected by
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: things like that. Another deer just like come out of
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: their skin and like you know, I've I've grunted into
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: some deer and they take off like you shot a
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: shotgun at him, you know what I mean. So I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: would probably penning on how far I was away from
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: the bed. I might just let him go to bed.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: I might I might stay there if I thought there's
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: a chance he could get up later that evening, um,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: whether that be that same day or the or the
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: next day, I might just stay there. I might try
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: to get down, sneak out and readjust I mean, with
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: with some of our mobile equipment these days, like it's
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: it's you can get pretty good and quiet with it
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: as far as like setting up um and taken down.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: You know, if you if you're feel pretty stealthier that
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: and you're say you're you know, eight yards away or
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: something like that, you might be able to to climb
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: down and and readjust if you think like, hey, he's
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: gonna get up and had had a front way. But
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: it's all situational dependent, depending on like the terrain and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: the cover, the ground cover, all that stuff comes into place.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: So it's it's really a judgment call on that. You know,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: when you're you're sitting there up in that tree, you
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: gotta kind of think about all that stuff before you
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: make your decision. Here here's another one that you just
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: made me think of. But what if you decide you
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: want to make a move like that where you hunt
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: an evening spot, you see something and you want to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: adjust for them next morning, when all you know, all
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: other things being equal, when do you think is the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: better time to make that adjustment. Should you make the
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: adjustment after dark that night, so you pulled on your
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: stuff right then and try to find a spot to
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: hang in the middle of the night while you're there,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: or come back in the next morning early enough to
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: get us set up in the morning before daylight. What
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: time are you're you're talking? Uh, yeah, let's let's say
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: this is uh well, the scenario we were just talking
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: through was like October nineteenth, give a takes, so let's
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: just stick with that. Yeah. UM, well, I'm not opposed
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: at all, and I've shot some nice deer going in
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: blind in the morning and setting up. But I've also
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: set up blind in the morning and then gets daylight
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: and I can't shoot anywhere, So I don't prefer that. Um.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: If I can somehow pick out a location UM that
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: evening and see a tree, UM, that would work, I
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: might be inclined to. Um. If if I if just
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: say that deer gets up and you see him move
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: off the other way, I would probably be more inclined
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: to pull my stuff down and go set my sticks
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: or whatever right then while he's gone, and then I
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: could hunt that in the morning. Um. If for some
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: reason you don't feel like you can do that, for
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, he's kind of stays in that betting thicket,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: you're not sure he's gone, I would probably be more
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: inclined to kind of eyeball where I want to be
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: um and then come back real early in the morning.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: I think you can. I've had some I've had some
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: mid and early October hunts out of state where I've
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: seen bucks on their feet well into late morning, and
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: it's it's really shocking because I don't see that back
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: home too much. But then there's been other times where
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: I've seen bucks literally I've been set up, you know,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: an hour and a half before first light and you
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: know it's just gray light, or you know, even before
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: shooting light and you hear something walking and you look
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: down and you see it, you know, the big buck
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: going back to bed before it's even shooting light. So
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's again depending on pressure, depending
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: on terrain. Um, you know, if you're kind of in there,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: they're safe zone. I feel like a lot of times
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: they'll get into those areas before daylight, but then you
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: still have some some activity that during shooting hours where
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: you could get it done. But regardless, the whole point is,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: I'd want to be set up without alerting the deer,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: whether that's doing it that night after he leaves or
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: getting in there real early. But I would just want
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: to be confident if I'm gonna go in there real
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: early next morning. I want to be confident that that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: tree is going to be working. I'm its gonna work,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have some shooting a billy out of it. Yeah,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: that's the trick. It's tough to do in the dark. Um. Okay,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: let's push forward until late October and we're into the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: pre rut. It's October or somewhere in that ballpark, and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: we often talk about how that's one of your very
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: that's a really good time of the year because these
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: bucks are getting kind of ready. They're they're just about
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: ready to explode, but they haven't necessarily left their core
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: area chasing does all over the place. Um at least,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: that's kind of a generic over simplification of that time
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: of year. So if that was that time of the year,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I might be getting ready to go take a swing
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: at some of my better spots maybe for that time
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: of year because of that. But but and you've got
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: to buck your after there. But the problem is that
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: right when you're about to do that, a warm spell hits,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: and we're gonna get five days. The rest of October
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: is going to be hot, like seventy degrees let's say, so,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: do you still try to take some kind of move
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: in there because you know that once the first or
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: second November hits, you just don't know where he's going
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: to be. Or do you say, I'm not gonna blow
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: my my chances on these warm weather days and I'm
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: gonna wait until November and see what happens. What would
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: you do in that scenario? So I went through UM,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: this was probably a year or two ago, but I
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: went through a lot. I don't think I made it
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: through all of them. But I sat down and I
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: started going through all of my kills, and I was
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: really looking at UM historical weather data, UM, and I
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: was trying to find, you know, just basically look at
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: some of the conditions and see if I could find
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: some some things that stood out. And one of the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: things that was really interesting to me was that I
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: had just as many kills that were above average temperatures
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: as I did below UM. And I think that in
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: part has to do with the allow the way I
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: hunt deer in that that time frame of October, and
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: I put late October in the same, uh, the same
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: general time frame, because the deer are still you know,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of times in their in their more of
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: their home range, not necessarily venturing out to run um,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: you know, traveling long distances. So I in that situation
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: would definitely um move in. If it's a if it's
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: a specific year that I'm after, I would try to
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: really get in tight to his betting. And I love
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: the late October or any October cold front. I love
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: it for increased activity and you see, you tend to
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: see better action because dear a traveling further from their beds.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: And that's a lot of times like um, even that
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: first week of October we had that nice cool front
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: and all my friends were seeing good deer and the
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: cameras were blowing up, and you know, it was just
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: you get get a really good activity. But that doesn't
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: mean you can't kill them when it's seventy or eighty degrees.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: I mean you can. The deer will still get up
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: out of bed and move, but it's just gonna be
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: a lot tighter to betting. So if it's a specific
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: deer and I have the confidence, um, and it's an
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: area I know well, and if a deer is in
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: that area and is he I feel like, okay, he's betted,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: and you know one of these three or four spots,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna dive in and hunt those spots I am
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: during that time of year, because, like I said before,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: going after a specific deer throughout the month of November,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: I've I've just chased my tail with it. You know.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I see him, you know, way out in the swamp here,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: and then I get a picture of him way over here.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: It's like I can never really catch up with that deer,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: and then and then he just disappears all together and
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: it shows back up around like and in November, you
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I think you're it's just
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: it's such a when you're after a specific bucket's such
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: a frustrating time. Now if he's around, you're seeing him
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: and you're still getting pictures, that might be one of
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: those times where I'm I might plant myself in that
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: one tree that he goes by the most and just
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: put in my time or all funnel that I know
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: he travels with, and just always play the wind around
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that little area where he he seems to be frequenting.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: So it's it's it's gonna depend but that that late
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: October time frame, warm front. I mean, I'm not gonna
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: sit and wait. I'm not gonna sit and wait because
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: he could be he could completely move to a different area.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: I've I've seen a lot bucks do that, where they
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: will be around for you know that early October, mid October, um,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: maybe even in the late October, and then come rut
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: they shift. They got a different area they go to,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: and then if they survive a lot of times they
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: come back to that area more late season. And then
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: other deer if you have everything they need, food, cover, water, um,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: and there's there's enough doughs there to keep them interested.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I've seen them stay. So it's really going to depend
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: on your knowledge of that deer um and your knowledge
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: of your hunting area. Whether you can get in tight
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: to these betting you know these betting spots. But I would, personally,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: I would dive in and be aggressive. For me, being
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: aggressive has paid off um a lot. It's it's it's
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: probably the one thing about my style of hunting that
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: I think has helped me. I've had a lot of
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: kills just being aggressive. But I've also you you by
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: doing so, you you just learn more because you you're
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: getting in there and you're mixing up, You're making some
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: mistakes and you just are able to grow from those.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: So for me personally, I'm going to dive in after
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: that book because I feel like it's gonna be really
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: hard to to kind of narrow down. That's a lot
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: of the reason I like to travel during that those
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: first two weeks of November is because I it's hard
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: for me to kill a specific buck here in Michigan
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: during that time frame, So I'd rather just go to
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: a state that is a little more um, maybe has
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: a little more a few more mature deer, and then
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: just put in my time in your typical rut spots
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: and usually the action is better because there's you know,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: higher competition, more mature books, and it's just it's just
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: a fun time to travel because I'm not after that
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: one specific book. What's that window of time in October? Um,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: where you would do what you just described, get get
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: kind of aggressive regardless of the weather. Could you if
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: you had to pick the window, is it October one?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Is that the one? Is that thirty one? Like? What
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: if you had to pick that window where you gotta
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: do it? Um, what would you say? That would be? Yeah?
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: I would say you know that October through November second
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: time frames somewhere in there. I mean, ideally, I'm hoping
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: for a really good cold front in that time, but
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: if it just doesn't come, I'm not gonna I'm not
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: sitting back doing nothing. I'm I'm I'm gonna start throwing
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: sits at these at these spots where I think the
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: bucks are living, and I'm just gonna get in tighter.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: You know, the the poorer the weather is for movement,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: the tighter I'm gonna risk getting in closer to betting,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: the better it is for movement. Um, the cooler the weather,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: the farther back I feel comfortable city. Um, And that's that's.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: It may be a difference of fifty yards or a
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: hundred yards, but that's kind of the way I look
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: at it that time of year. Two. Um, you know,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: if you do know where a particular buck is bedded,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: or you have a good idea of two or three spots,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: you know, if you can find that something like a
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: terrain funnel that leads from that bed, or a good
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: scrape that's in close proximity that bed, that's that's the
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: time frame to sit in those spots. And the cults
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: shirt is the bed the better, like when you're talking
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: about like a late October like warm front. Now, what
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: if we take this this scenario, but we move it
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: to that time firm when you like to travel. So
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: let's say it's November and you're out there on one
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: of these traveling out of state hunts and you've got
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: your five days to hunt the rut in Iowa or wherever,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna hunt it. You did the travel, but
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: you get this dreaded rut warm spell where you've got
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: the seventy eight degree temperatures for that week you're you're
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: gonna hunt. But how would you approach hunting it differently? Um,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: you just described to me that you would hunt closer
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: to bedding areas in late October, But now you're in
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: a new place. You don't maybe you don't know where
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: specific bucks are bedded, and really that probably doesn't matter
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: on November ten because they're chasing those around and doing
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So how would you adjust for
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: a really warm rut vacation? Yeah, so I ran into
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: that that that year. That that day I shot that
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: big um eleven point in in Iowa. It was seventy
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: seven degrees that day, and that was November six UM.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Basically what we saw was definitely a drop in overall activity,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: but the deer we're still running. We saw flurries of activities,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: you know, briefly early in the day and then late UM,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: and we were just really mobile, and we we found
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: ourselves kind of gravitating towards we we're seeing more action
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: like just in an overall thicker cover rather than like
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: the rut funnels. Um. Not to say those couldn't pay off,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: but we we kind of gravitated towards we just kept
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: pushing in closer to like dough betting essentially where there
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: was good numbers of does, and we were still seeing activity,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: like even through mid day, but they just weren't like
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: they weren't like you know, running out in the fields
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: or crossing these big open areas or or the rout
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: funnels that we were sitting in, like we're really really
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: slow like mid day where in years past, like that
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: was a really good spot to camp out all day,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: you know. So we found ourselves just kind of gravitating
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: towards that thicker cover which held more more does, and
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: then the bucks were just kind of coming in and
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: out of there, and or we're already in there um
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: and we had just kind of set up down windo
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: there or kind of get in the middle of it
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: and play the wind best we could. But that's how
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: that's how we were both basically able to have success
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: that year. We just kind of zeroed in on where
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of the oh activity was as opposed to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: like necessarily like rut funnels, where you would expect kind
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: of like late morning, mid day and early afternoon movement.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Did you still hunt mid day or just bail on
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: that and do something different? Yeah, that buck I shot
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: was twelve th middle of the day. Man, that's it.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: It was, you know, it was so it was so
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: funny because I went to I was down there with
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: you know, Mike, my buddy, you've met him, and we
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: had one vehicle, so he's I don't know how he
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: was like four or five miles away. I'm hunting in
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: this spot where he dropped me off, and I was
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: ways back in I'm sitting this rot funnel. And I
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: sat till I don't know, like eleven and I didn't
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: see a single deer. And as I get down and
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: it's hot, Oh, this is what happened. I was up
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: in the tree, I didn't see a single deer. And
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: then like not like nine thirty or ten, I hear
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: like all this like really aggressive, like rattling, and I'm
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: like what in the world. And I turned around and
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: there's another hunter, probably seventy five yards for me, and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: he's blowing on his grunt call and he's just hammering
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: like the biggest fight you've ever heard. And I was like,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: holy crap. So I was I was a little uh frustrated.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: Not only with that. I mean it happens, I mean
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: he was doing his thing whatever, but I was kind
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: of stuck there without a ride, and it was going
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: to be in the you know, nearly eighty that day.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: So I actually walked down. I hiked out and there
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: was another spot we can hunt, but it was about
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: a mile and a half down the road. So I
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: literally with all my stuff, all my gear full, camo,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just like walking down the road and I'm like cursing,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, oh my god, I'm sweating, I'm
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: hating life. And um but I go to this this
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: other spot where we knew there was a lot of deer. There,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of dos in there. It was
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: just a harder area to hunt it because it was
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: like so thick, a big giant, a big giant area
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: without really any significant terrain funnels. But it was great cover.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: It had standing corn, it had um like really tall
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: like set aside. It wasn't in CRP, but it was
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: just set aside really tall weeds, and there were does
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: and bucks kind of all over in there. And I
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: ended up setting up along a river. UM got all
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: the way over there. I was. I set back up.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was drenched in sweat. I was so mad.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: I was texting Mike. I was like this. I was
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: so frustrated, you know. It was one of those deals.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: And then he's like, I know, He's like I know, man,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: just you just set it out, you know whatever. I
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: was just venting, and literally it all happened like right
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: when I got done texting him that scenario that I
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: explained earlier, and then I just I texted. I called him.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: It was like ten minutes later. I called it. I
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: just shot one. He's like, what the world are you
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: talking about? You were just crying like a bay so um.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: You know, it was just all location and we were
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: I was tucked out on the down wind side of
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: all that thick cover, and it just so I got
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: a little lucky because that other buck was moving through
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: that set aside, and you know that the big buck
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: met him, and then the doll kind of squirted my way.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: But you know, that's that's kind of that's always my plan.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: When you know, if it's during the rut and the
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: weather's hot, I'm gonna get I'm just gonna try to
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: get in tighter to the dos because the bucks will
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: always be there. They won't always be traveling, you know,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: across fields and into the you know, uh, down those
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: rough funnels and and whatnot when it's eighty degrees, but
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: they're they're gonna be they're still gonna be interested in
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: the doughs. They're still gonna rut. That's that's the fail safe.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: That's always the one spot you can count on. Alright,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: I got a couple more for you here, um November five,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: six seventh, somewhere in that same kind of general window,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: and you're hunting your your best spot, your best little
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: rut funnel. Let's say on this chunk that you're hunting,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: and you're hunting this spot because there's two really good
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: bucks are after and there might be some other deer
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: in the general area that you don't know about, but
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: you know that there's two really good bucks that you
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: really would like to get a crack at, and you're
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: after him in this spot and you're you're in this
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: it's the spot. But one of these bucks come through,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: comes through, and your wind swirls or something goes wrong
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: and he wins you. So that buck? Whin did you
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: on November five? In your best spot? How do you adjust?
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Do you push through and keep hunting it the rest
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: of that day and give another shot the next day
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: or something because there's still at other buck you want
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: to get a crack at, and this, for some reason
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: you think this is that spot. Or do you say,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: all right, I'm screwed because this bucks he smelled me.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: Now I need to really rethink things. What what's what's
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: your plan in that situation? Yeah? Um, I don't know.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: That's a tough one. I mean, it's on to say
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I could go either way. I might. I might relocate
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: um to an area like or maybe another funnel or
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: or downwind side of a doe betting or something like
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: that in that same general area where I would think,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: you know, I'd still have a chance at both of them. Um,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: I might, I might be inclined to just camp out
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: in that spot and hold out for the other book. Um,
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I could. I could
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: go either way on that scenario, to be honest with you. UM,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: but I I guess my gut would tell me to
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: put myself in an area where the other deer hasn't
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: obviously spooked from me, and there's still a fair chance
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: that the other buck that I haven't seen yet could
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: could cruise through to just kind of play the percentages,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: probably something like that. Okay, that's that seems fair alright.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: One more November question. It's novem in Michigan, and let's
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: say you are hunting in Michigan at that time period,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: because you do have some special slammer buck that you
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: really want to get a crack at, and it's it's
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: your last day. Gun season opens tomorrow. We all know
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: that here in Michigan, and you could you could take
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: the same snare and drop in any other state. It's
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: the night before opening day gun season. We know the
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: next day things are going to change. The woods are
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: gonna get blown up by other hunters. There's a a
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: better chance than at any other point of the year
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: that your target buck could get killed. Um. So in
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: this case, all things being equal, you know, how do
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: you take that last day swing? Um? What does that
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: hail Mary look for you? Like? What does that look
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: like for you on the last day of both season?
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: I mean for us it's November. I mean I don't.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: I don't. I I don't think that I would feel
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: confident that I would know where that buck was betted
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: unless I had a sighting or a picture, um, like
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: very very recently, you know, like a sighting of him
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: going into a thicket or something in the morning. You know,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: obviously I would I would move in tight, you know,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: get in tight and try to swing for the fences
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: like that. But I didn't see him. I have no
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: idea where he's at. I don't. I wouldn't have confidence
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: of jumping in anywhere and saying I'm swinging for the fences.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: I probably still would do like an all day sit.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: Um probably either in I would probably put myself in
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: a funnel between two betting two good dough betting areas,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: assuming there is one like I'm picturing, like a like
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: a cool river bottom that has dough betting along it um,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: you know, in the river bends and whatnot, and you
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: position yourself in between and you just do one all
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: day sit um. Or if I had seen him or
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: saw activity of him in a certain thicket where there
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: was a good dough near go good dough numbers, I
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: would probably jump right into the middle of that um
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: playing the win try, you know, maybe playing the down
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: wind side a little bit, but maybe not so much
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: on the edge. I'd probably maybe get a little more
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: to the interior, and I would do an all day
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: sit um. I just wouldn't feel comfortable saying like, oh,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna jump into this betting area on Novem. You know,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: I think he's gonna probably most likely be locked down
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: with a dough. UM. So tough one, A tough tough
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: one to answer, but I guess I would. I guess
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: I would be inclined to to pick one of those
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: two choices. Maybe even you know, if if it's an
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: area like um, you know, like maybe a couple of
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: areas that similar to where you and I hunt, you
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: can see a long ways into a good cover, might
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: not even be a bad idea to to set up
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: early in a spot where you can see a long
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: ways in that good cover. Um, you might have a
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: chance at him there, but maybe more so even just
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: trying to get eyes on him. And I think during
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: that time of year, he's probably, you know, like I said,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: going to be locked down. He's probably not going to
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: be moving super far. Um. It's it's real, it's real
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: tough to answer that question, but probably one of those
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: three scenarios I would I would choose depending on location, habitat,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: what I could see, um, you know, and the most recent,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: the most recent intel I have of that of that deer.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: I would try to make the best decision there. Alright, Andy,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: you have almost made it through the what would you do? Gauntlet?
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: We just got our kind of wrap up rapid fire
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: questions of sorts here to end us out. Uh, here's
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: one you've heard me ask before. I am all powerful
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to take away your privileges to hunt
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: for the next ten years. Andy, No more hunting for
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: ten years unless you kill a mature buck in Michigan
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: this year. And I'm only gonna give you one day
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: to do it. You have to pick your one single
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: day you're gonna hunt this season in Michigan to kill
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: a mature buck, and we'll we'll give you a three
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: year old. We'll say three is mature in Michigan. You
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: gotta kill a three year old in Michigan. Pick the
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: single day you think you've got the best chance, and
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: tell me the hypothetical stand you would sit for that day.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah. I go back and forth between two.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: So I've I've killed five big bucks on November six.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is about that day. Um.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: So part of me wants to pick that one, but
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of those have been out of state, and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: the other part of me wants to pick the opener. Um,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't have done me much good this year, but
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: most years, most years I have a beat on a
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: buck three and a half or older in again for
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: the opener, and I feel like I have as good
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: a chance as any, probably more so to shoot him
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: that day, um, or somewhere in the first day or two.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm thinking probably I'm probably in some sort of
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: creek bottom, and I have glass this deer coming out
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: of a spot along that creek, and or a picture
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: some sort of intel that that tells me that he's
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: betted in this area, you know, a day or two
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: before the season, and then I'm probably going to sneak
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: along that creek down in it and pop up um
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: as close as I can, get as close as I can,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: and set up HUM along that creek along that travel
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: in the direction that I think he's going ahead. That
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: would probably be kind of like best case scenario, like
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: he's kind of works along this creek a certain direction
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: to like a destination type food source or something, and
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: I have perfect access um through the creek and then
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: pop up on the bank and just catch him by
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: complete surprise. Probably something like that in Michigan, I will,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: you know if in another state, I would say, you know,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: I'm glass in a secluded bean filled early and you know,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: I'm watching the low spots and watching the back inside corners,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: and I see a good buck pop out. But I
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: just I haven't been able to capitalize that too much
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: here in Michigan. But like, give me a state, like
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: you know, Kentucky or something for the bow opener. I
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: mean that that would be more of my my go
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: to and really high, really high success rate just doing that. Yeah,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: all right, that sounds like a pretty good scenario. Okay,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: rapid fire really quick. Here one answer or one word
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: answers Here? Does the moon matter for deer movement? Yes?
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: Or no? Yes? Would you take a fifty yards shot
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: at a white tail from a tree standard saddle with
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: your bow? Yes? Or no? From a saddle stand or saddle? Um?
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: And if it's different, tell me answer for each Oh, no,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: it's not different. Um. One word answer as best as
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: you can. Yes. If you could only have one of
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: these for the rest of your hunts, would it be
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: rattling antlers or grunt? To which one for the rest
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: of your life? Rattling antlers? Because I feel like I could.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: I feel like I could probably if I needed to
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: in a pinch grunt with my mouth. Okay? Expandable or
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: fixed blade broad heads I carry? Both depends on the
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: deer like put on the fixed plates for this big
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: boy explanable. Should you stop a buck with some kind
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: of sound before shooting? Yes or no? Yes? Will you
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: kill the big six in Ohio this year? Uh? Yes?
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: Will I kill my target buck tran this year? Yes? Alright?
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: Right answer on the last Alright, buddy, That's all I
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: got for you. Thank you so much for taking time
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: to do this. Hey, no problem, man, it was fun.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: It was fun. I'll talk to you soon, all right,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you, alright, and that's it. Thanks for listening. I
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: know if you are at all like me and eating
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: up with all this stuff, then you seriously enjoyed that
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: conversation too. So a couple quick or my enders. Number One,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: we've got the white Tail Weekly newsletter from Meat Eater
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: that I and uh that myself and Spencer put together.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: So make sure you are signed up for our white
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: Tail Weekly Newsletter to get the latest white Tail content
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: that we are publishing over there. You can find that
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: over at the meat eater dot com. Secondly, make sure
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: you're following me on Instagram wire to Hunt that's the
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: handle on Instagram. I'm posting live updates for my hunts
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: on the I G story and a lot more behind
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: the scenes stuff. That's where you can find it. And uh,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: I guess that's it. So best of luck with your
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: upcoming hunts. Have a blast out there, be safe, and
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.