Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #28 Scandal in the Synagogue

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#28 Scandal in the Synagogue · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:01
  Hey everyone.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Tim Wright here, along with the Terry Summers.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm here.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And today we are John-less, and we'll be for a couple episodes.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: John is in Germany for the last two weeks of his time.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's retiring next year, early next year, from the Air Force as a JAG.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he is in Germany for a couple weeks, wrapping up some stuff over there.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just the two of us.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, Terry, you've got enough to carry the show.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, Tim, your faith in me.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's good, isn't it?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So what we're doing is we're doing a Bible study together.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we really appreciate the people who are listening in.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know there are a lot of people who don't have the opportunity to do a Bible study.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they can't get to one, maybe never done one before.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is sort of a non-threatening way to do it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And part of the reason for doing this is there are so many...
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: misunderstandings about Jesus out there right now,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of angry Jesus out there right now,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: misinterpretations,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: bad misinterpretations of the Bible.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we wanted to use our time together to look at the stories of Jesus and what
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: does Scripture say about Jesus,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: how do we interpret Scripture.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to learn all of that together.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And not only are we doing Bible study together,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: but we try to give you some insights into how to do a Bible study on your own and
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: how to read the Bible.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we are walking through the Gospel of Mark.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're not doing every verse.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're not doing every passage.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing those that make for a little easier discussion in terms of a podcast.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that tends to do with the stories.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the stories of Jesus, or as we move along, it'll be stories that Jesus tells us.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So today we are looking at a story from Mark chapter 3, and I will read it for everybody.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Again, Jesus entered the synagogue, and a man was there who had a withered hand.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: They watched him, i.e.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus, to see whether he would cure him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse him.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he said to the man who had the withered hand, Come forward.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Then he said to them, is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the Sabbath, to save life or to kill?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: But they were silent.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: He looked around at them with anger.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was grieved at their hardness of heart and said to the man, stretch out your hand.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: He stretched it out and his hand was restored.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: The Pharisees went out and immediately conspired with the Herodians against him how to destroy him.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're in verse 1 of chapter 3, and already they're trying to get rid of Jesus.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So let me give some context so we sort of understand the parameters of this story,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: and then we can dig into it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: There were some Jews,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: not all,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: but some Jews,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: who were hyperprotective of the day off that the Jews had,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: which was the Sabbath.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So in the Old Testament, which again is not the Old Testament for Jesus, it was the only Bible he had.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: In the Ten Commandments, it said, remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the Ten Commandments.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So taking that day off was very, very important.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so the Jews,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: understandably so,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: would not want to violate the intention of that day because it was a holy day.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And over the course of years,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: to the point where we get to Jesus,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: they had put hundreds and hundreds of laws in place of what you could and could not
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: do on the Sabbath day.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, they would tell you, you can walk this far on the Sabbath and no farther.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: For real.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody broke their arm, you could put it in a cast.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: but you couldn't reset it until the day after.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So in other words,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: it was sort of the minimum you need to do to protect the life and make sure they survive,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: but you can't really do any healing,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: so to speak,
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: on that day.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: if you slice your finger and it needs stitches,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: you can put a bandage on it,
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: but you can't put the stitches in until the next day.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was that kind of...
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: protection around the Sabbath.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: it seems nutty to us today,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: especially in the United States of America,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: where Sundays aren't a day off at all anymore.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's just...
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing a lot of people growing up,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: maybe even people listening to this podcast,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: have no idea when I say Sundays a day off what we even mean.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: But for the Jews, especially those who were...
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: They are observant Jews.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: They were very, very serious about their faith.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Took these laws literally to the point of wanting to make sure that they didn't in
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: any way,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: shape,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: or form break the laws.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: They put in all of these regulations.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So now you have a man who is in the synagogue on the Sabbath day.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he's got a withered hand.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: and we'll tease this out more in a couple of minutes as to what that means for this man.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's something wrong with his hand.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now he's there in the synagogue.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was able to get to the synagogue.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: He'll probably be able to go home from the synagogue.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: He can probably eat.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: This man is in no imminent danger.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So according to some strict Jews at that time,
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: they would say,
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: if you're going to heal this man,
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: do it the rest of the week because he's not in imminent danger.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to work today.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for them,
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: healing this man on the Sabbath would be work because it wasn't,
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: for lack of a better word,
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: necessary to the man's life.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Jesus is going to test them and push them a little bit here.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he asks the question in a very interesting way.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: He says, is it lawful to do good or harm on the Sabbath, to save a life or to kill?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's pitching this, not as simply helping the man.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's pitching it as life or death.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's asking the question, is it okay if I save this man's life?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so we need to step back and say, what is Jesus seeing that nobody else is seeing?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll get to that in a moment.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of the background.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's why this is going to be controversial.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because for very strict observant Jews,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: any sort of work on the Sabbath day,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: which isn't necessary,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: would be work and therefore a violation of the Sabbath.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And Tim, so the word holy and keep it holy.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: That holy is defining what work falls underneath, then would it be holy?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, part of it is holy means to set it apart.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So to make it different from all the other days of the week.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: To make it holy is to see the day as sacred.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a day where we should be, all of our energy and focus should be focused on God.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And to remember the beauty of the Sabbath day,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: because sometimes we as Christians read these stories and we think,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: they got so caught up in these laws.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: But to remember the beauty of the Sabbath day, these people, the Jews, were slaves.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Slaves don't get a day off.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And God comes along and he restores their humanity to
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the ways that he restores their humanity and gives them a new identity
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: by saying,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: you get a day off because you're a human being and I'm going to take care of you on
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: that day.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so on that day,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: when the people of Israel were wandering in the wilderness and God provided manna
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: from heaven,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: every day they would wake up and there would be this cake-like stuff on the ground.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: God told them, just take what you need for the day.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: But on Friday,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: the day before the Sabbath,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: pick up twice the amount you need,
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  SPEAKER_00: only on that day,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: so that on the Sabbath day,
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: you don't have to go out and collect food.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to take care of that day.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that plays into them wanting to keep that day holy.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, this is an aside, but there's a lot for us to learn just on that one thing.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have lost our ability.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: decompress.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: We are every day,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: 24-7,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: we're on our phones,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: we're on our iPads,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: we're watching news,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: we're watching streaming shows,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: we're working,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: we're putting in overtime.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And some of us might, might take an hour on a Sunday morning or a Saturday night to go to church.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: But other than that, we're just not slowing down.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, we know from all the research, it's killing us.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: God knows what God is talking about.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: We need days off.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we can understand and appreciate why they would be so protective of this day.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you lose your Sabbath day, you dehumanize yourself.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: We become less than human.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus would certainly appreciate that as well,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: although Jesus sort of freed us from that,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: to say the Sabbath is meant to rehumanize us,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: not to tie us into knots.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: It would be his thing.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: he'll recognize that,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: it's a day for rest,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: boy,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: when there are people in need,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: when there are people who are hurting,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, every day is a day to practice God's grace in the world.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's easy for us to get really upset with these Pharisees, these religious leaders.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're just trying to take seriously this gift that God has given to us that most
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: of us have now just sort of blown off to our own disadvantage.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they were trying to protect it.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I grew up in an era where stores weren't open on Sundays.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of restaurants weren't open.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can still sort of remember when we started going to restaurants on Sundays.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: We usually went to grandma's.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: But every once in a while we'd go to a restaurant and you'd just feel so guilty.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember a guy next door to us mowing his lawn on Sunday.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he was Jewish.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: So he could do it on Sunday.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: But it just, you know, back then it seemed so odd.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, we've got sports games on Sunday with, you know, our kids in school.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's on Sunday with their track meets and their band concerts and all this stuff.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my little rant.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: We need to take the Sabbath day off.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also a way to appreciate it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: and not demonize these religious leaders who want to protect something really
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: sacred because they know it's important for us.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: like you're striking a chord in me just,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: and also from my memory,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: but,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: but when you said Jesus knows,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm waiting to kind of see where you weave that Jesus knows why,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: why it's important alongside with his choice to do something kind of contrary of
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: the time.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, um,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Before we kind of tease that out,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: one of the things that we try to do here is help people use their imaginations so
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: that when they're reading these stories,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: they can put themselves in the story.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So one other thing to give,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: as we imagine,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: in that culture,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: if you were sick,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: if in any way,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: shape,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: or form you were disabled or differently abled,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: as people will say today,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: if you had a withered hand,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: in this case,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: you did something wrong,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: your parents did something wrong,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: or God's just angry at you.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they would see it as punishment.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so not only are you walking around with this withered hand,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: you're walking around with a stigma and people see you with your withered hand and
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: they're thinking,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: boy,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: what did this guy do?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: What was he looking at on the internet?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you've got this guy with this stigma and this withered hand and good on him.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's in the synagogue.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Cause you would imagine a guy like that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's use our imagination.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let me know.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I won't do it for you,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Terry,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: but just imagine you've got the withered hand and people are looking at you and saying,
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: what did you do?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to be in the synagogue on that day?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, probably not.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are there, where are you sitting?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, in the back, in the corner.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want anyone looking at you.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want anyone to notice you because they'll start whispering.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Some may even say, why did they let that guy in?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: as we put ourselves into the shoes of that man and imagine,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: first of all,
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: the courage it took him to be there,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: the shame that he lives with,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then he goes, he's just going to hear the rabbi.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then the worst possible thing happens to him.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what is that?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: He gets called out.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And not just called out.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's called to do what?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Come forward.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Stand right in the middle of all of this.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: He was the center of attention.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: The last thing that guy wants is to be the center of attention.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then not only is he the center of attention, but now he becomes a part of a theological debate.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Intense, really, when you think about it.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this poor guy, he's just standing there.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus and these religious leaders are having a debate about whether this guy should be healed or not.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And imagine the stuff going on in his brain at that point.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus calls him up and he's thinking, well, is this the day?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to be healed?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then Jesus puts the question to the religious leaders and you got to sort of sense,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: nope,
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: it's not happening today.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're not going to let it happen.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: His whole world is turned upside down in a matter of moments.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's a piece to this that we don't get in this story, but we get in Luke's gospel.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And in Luke's gospel, he said it's the man's right hand that is withered.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: In the Bible, the left hand and the right hand had metaphorical meaning.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: The right hand was considered to be the working hand.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the hand that you would work with.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Most people being right-handed would get that.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Left-handed people are going to feel a little bit reclaimed in this discussion.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So remember, this was 2,000 years ago.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was the right hand that you would raise to bless people.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was the right hand that you would use to greet people, shake hands.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it was the right hand that you would put onto someone's head and you would bless them.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the right hand was seen as the active hand, the necessary hand for living life.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: The left hand, sorry for all you left-handed folks, was the hand that did the dirty stuff.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was the hand that was used in the bathroom, so to speak, to get cleaned up after certain jobs.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was not seen metaphorically now.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was seen more as the hand for all the dirty work.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you use Luke's gospel,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: it heightens the tension of the story because the man's right hand has been withered,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: which means he's lost his ability to work and provide for his family,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: which means
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: he has been essentially emasculated as a man.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: He has lost his identity as a man in a culture where men worked and provided for their families.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So now it makes a little more sense when Jesus makes this a life or death question,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: not just simply helping the man,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: but this is a man who has lost his ability for a livelihood.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: So for this man, the healing of his hand is life or death.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why Jesus says, is it lawful to do good or to do harm?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Should I let this guy continue to live his life without being able to work?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a time when we should give life back or take life from him?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so he has moved it from simply helping, although that's important,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: to actually giving this man's life back, which raises the stakes all the more in the discussion.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: So when he's...
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: I would assume,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just asking,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: when he is doing this,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: knowing that by calling this man out,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: this man is in this position,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: is he thinking,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: he can withstand this pressure because I'm going to heal him?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: He's going to hang in there, buddy.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know this is humiliating or I know I'm making you sweat, but
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: I would think he had to have known all of what this man would be experiencing in the interim, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you would think so.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I think sometimes our imaginations are such great tools in stories like this,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: because we're able to really humanize it.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we imagine ourselves, you know, if we had some sort of obvious...
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: thing going on right let's imagine I've got this great big huge wart on my nose
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: that's bigger than my nose itself and I do everything I can to hide my face and
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: then Jesus calls me up in front says look at that guy's nose yeah yeah yeah I
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: figured what wait a minute you're doing what to me right it would be humiliating
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: right
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: but at the same time,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: we could also imagine maybe the guy is in worship that day precisely because Jesus
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: is there.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And wants to hear something.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: Cause he was causing such a stir.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he had a crowd everywhere.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like you didn't know who he was.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you and you by now, you know that he heals people.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you're going there for that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so on the other hand, maybe the guy's called up.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: He thinks today's my day.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I told you, honey.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: and I think part of what we do is we put ourselves into the story where we're at in
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: the moment.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Some of us who may have something that strikes a blow at our identity,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: our sense of worth and value,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: we may slink up there,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: our shoulders hunched over and,
• 21:37
  oh,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: please,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so embarrassed as it is.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: But others of us might be just ready for Jesus to do something different.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we go up there, we run up, we're ready to go.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, tomorrow we may read the story again differently.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really good when you're reading Scripture and you're just doing a
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: little Bible study on your own.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: What would you be feeling?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What would you be feeling right now if that were you?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: What would the people in the congregation be thinking at that point?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some of them are going to look at this guy and say, oh, boy, not that guy.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: What is he doing here?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And some people might be just a little embarrassed for him.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, feel a little, oh, this guy, he gets such criticism all the time.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's picked on all the time.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, we know Bob.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's lost his business, can hardly make ends meet.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's possible that Bob sits outside the synagogue begging for money because there's
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: no other way to make money.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: and truthfully,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: when the story started,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: I did kind of feel that there's such a kind of a similarity,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: even in today's day,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: not to divert from the story,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: but of people,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: no matter the situation,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: that might,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: quote unquote,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: slink into the back of a church service,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: feeling all those things,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: sitting in the back,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: but yet coming because,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: there's, there's something going on where they want, you know, to meet Jesus.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: And what,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: what even as in a modern day,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Christian family or,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: or,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: or grouping gathering that we could project the same things onto that person as
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: what they might've been experiencing.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: He might've been experiencing that time in his own culture for his withered hands.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: So to speak metaphorically.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, the beauty of the story is that Jesus sees him.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So Jesus sees us when we're sitting in the back of the corner or the back corner.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: He sees us when we're embarrassed or we're ashamed or we feel powerless or like you, Terry, grieving.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: In deep loss.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he sees us.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he calls us forward only because he wants to do something graceful in our lives.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And only because he wants to do something gracious.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And in this case, to teach people what grace looks like.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to say to these, go ahead.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, go ahead.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to say to everybody in the synagogue,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: especially those religious leaders,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: it's really important to take the Sabbath day off.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: But the Sabbath day was created to heal people.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sabbath day was created to rehumanize people.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm going to do right now.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to give this man his manhood back.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to give him his humanity back.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to save his life today.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's what the Sabbath is for.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And how interesting it is that sometimes, well, a lot of times, we can't see it.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: We get angry at the scandal of Jesus.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how can he possibly love that person?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: How can he possibly be for that kind of person living that kind of life?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus sees them and he says, I came to put you back together.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, that's what the Sabbath day is for.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: So how do we respond to the religious leader's reaction or their
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: planning to plot against them in a modern-day situation?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how do we... Is there...
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: I could think we would be inclined to maybe not hold them in the same regard as
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: what they call for in society.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: So if we are applying all of it, how now do we look to those individuals who,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: that might be perpetuating that similar disconnection from what really Jesus does bring.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm tiptoeing because I don't want to like,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not like trying to pinpoint anyone or,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: or nail anyone down,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: but I'll say it.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say what comes to my mind.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: The, the rampant Christian nationalism that we've seen in our country.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Over the last several years.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And of course it's reared its head a lot in this election.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: of people who claim that what the gospel is about is imposing a certain kind of
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Christianity on the rest of us.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's angry.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we did a podcast on this so people can go back and listen.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's angry.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: It has to do with power and claiming power and the abuse of power.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: But there are people who are trying to connect it to Jesus and the church to say
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: that this is a Christian nation,
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: and so because we're a Christian nation,
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Christians ought to have priority over everything else,
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: and their beliefs ought to have priority over every other belief,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: for some even to the exclusion of others,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: which is antithetical to everything that Jesus stands for.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So Christian nationalism is not Christian in any way, shape, or form.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we as Christians respond to it?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: That is the million-dollar question, and even the million-dollar question in Scripture.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Jesus gives us two answers.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: First, Jesus was intolerant of any kind of religion that
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: condemned people, hurt people, burdened people, or tried to impose itself onto other people.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there were times when he, like right now, he set up a confrontation with the religious leaders.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was intentional about it.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because he wanted to say to them as well, by the way,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is what grace looks like.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is what the kingdom of God looks like.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is what the Sabbath looks like.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is what your creator looks like.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not all about rules.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's about God's love for humanity.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Woo, I have chills.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So Jesus confronts them and their misunderstandings about God.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he confronts them by always doing acts of love.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: There were times that Jesus was pretty harsh with them.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Called them whitewashed tombs once.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes he just didn't hold back.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there were times he took them on.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, he just kept doing grace.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: To say, this is what it looks like.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know what those people are saying.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: But this is what it looks like.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that robs people of their dignity and value,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: anything that robs people of their freedom to worship as they please,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: anything that imposes a religious belief on people,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: which I've already said a few times,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: anything that demonizes others,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: anything that creates enemies for the other side,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: If it is good,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: if it is compassionate,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: if it seeks to treat all people with dignity and respect,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: if it is just and fair,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: if it even allows other people to dissent in terms of how they believe,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: even if they choose not to believe in Jesus,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus stands on that side.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because Jesus stands on the side of grace and humanity.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you're wise to ask that question because we've seen so much of it lately.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And let's be honest,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: it's been turning off an entire generation of people,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: younger generations to Jesus,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: because if that's what Christianity looks like,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: bullying people, then nobody wants it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's really important for Christian people to keep doing grace.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: I was just going to say that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's our,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: that's like the filter that we can look at everything through is because that's,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: that's the,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: literally the key that,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: and I feel like,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: sometimes I retreat to be transparent.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: I retreat because the greatness of the issue seems so big.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure how to, I like want to fix things.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: and I'm,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: and I feel like I do have a,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: a capable voice,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: like literally and figuratively,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: but I still feel like I freeze,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: but to know that he was using,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus was using,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: in a pivotal way,
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: but even in behind the scenes,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: actions of grace that grace,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: instructs and grace sets a tone and grace.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: turns people around,
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: if there's a turning that,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: and I'm not suggesting there needs me,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: but you know what I'm saying?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: A turning of like, Oh, of understanding, um, for folks that are, are beating a drum that is so harsh.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's anyway, what you just said that that's the actions of grace, taking action, that's graceful with
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: people in our lives, in our community.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we're in a culture right now where those messages are harder to hear because
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: social media is built on grievance and anger.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cable news networks are based on grievance and anger.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it becomes harder for people to see
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: grace because that just doesn't fuel the energy.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we need to be doing it.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: We need to roll up our sleeves and do it a lot more, right.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And love our neighbors and see those people who are sitting in the back and putting
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: arms around them and saying,
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: you're loved here.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: You belong here.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's, it's interesting for me as a pastor, uh,
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Even the people who know that the message that we preach at our church,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: is radically different than Christian nationalism,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: they still look at our church and they kind of lump us into that group now.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: They know we're nothing like it.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: But because that voice is so loud and so amplified on social media,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: so amplified in the news and in our politics,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: that a lot of people are just now assuming this is what Christianity looks like.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And part of Jesus faced that challenge in many ways as well.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: One of the lines was, this is what Judaism looks like.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's restrictive.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't do what God wants you to do, God's going to be angry with you.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then Jesus comes along.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: He starts eating with those kinds of people, the wrong kinds of people.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: But he also ate with the Pharisees because he loved them too.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they had their own...
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: that he needed to break through, right?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Their anger.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: to put a spin on our Christian nationalist friends,
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: they're living on the basis of anger and fear.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus wants to break through that as well.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they need grace as much as the people who are broken and hurting.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it can be a really frustrating, difficult experience.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, let's not ignore the fact that for Jesus, it was the cross.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's where it ended, right?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because grace so threatens people.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: that's something that you kind of came around the left side there on that, that, that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: I,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: I see how far it goes,
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: but when you say it like that,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: if your,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: if your power,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: if your power is based on keeping people afraid,
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you have someone come along and say,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: you don't need to be afraid anymore because you are loved passionately by your creator.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And your creator has come to put your life back together, to give your life meaning.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: You suddenly, if you've got power and it's based on hatred and grievance, now where's your power?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: You've been undermined.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's partly what happened.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: For some of those Jewish leaders in power,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: and of course the Roman leaders in power,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: you can't have a guy going around talking about love and freedom because that sets
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: people free.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of stuff going on in this story, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: As always with Jesus.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: But the takeaway is this, because we sort of got off on Christian nationalism, which is okay.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: The takeaway is this.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus sees you.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when Jesus looks at you,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: he looks at you with the eyes of love and compassion,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: and he has one agenda,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: and that's to embrace you with grace,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: period.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that grace changes everything.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Terry, we've given our people 37 minutes worth of stuff to think about and cogitate on.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to be back next time.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And next time is going to be an interesting story because we're going to find out
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: that not only does Jesus have a challenge with some of the religious leaders,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: he isn't getting a lot of loving from his family either.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: in these early stories.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to come back to that next time.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Terry, as always, good to have you as a part of the show.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: So good.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: So good.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Terry and I are going to be back next time.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully John will be back.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a little Morse code.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's spelling out grace because that's God's word for you today.