Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP6 - Dealing With Divided Hearths (feat. Shandy Sampson)

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP6 - Dealing With Divided Hearths (feat. Shandy Sampson) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:02
  Hello everyone and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things Dramatic
• 0:07
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse.
• 0:10
  I am your host. Let's get into it.
• 0:32
  Yaldate. Yaldate.
• 0:35
  Here Workshop is dedicated to the old ways, offering a wide
• 0:38
  selection of animus, ritual supplies, divination tools,
• 0:42
  altered goods, and home decor, including premium reindeer
• 0:46
  heights imported from traditional herders in northern
• 0:48
  Finland. Whether you're just starting
• 0:50
  your spiritual journey or looking to expand your
• 0:53
  collection with a custom drum, we have everything you need.
• 0:57
  Visit our online store at the allofeightyear.com and discover
• 1:01
  the beauty of mountain spirit. Welcome back, everybody.
• 1:08
  We are here today recording a little earlier than normal to
• 1:14
  try and accommodate my guests for this week here.
• 1:18
  So, Helen, welcome to all of you that are listening today on the
• 1:21
  audio platforms. Thank you so much for being here
• 1:25
  to support me in that way. And a special thank you to the
• 1:28
  Patreon supporters who have been so kind as to pledge a dollar a
• 1:34
  month at least to support the video versions of the podcast.
• 1:39
  So to all my patrons here on Patreon that are watching this
• 1:41
  video, thank you so very much for your support as well.
• 1:46
  If you also want to become a patron on Patreon and you're
• 1:50
  listening to this on the audio platform, just check out the
• 1:52
  link tree link that's in the podcast show notes.
• 1:56
  It'll take you to a page that has all of my information, all
• 2:00
  of my social medias, the the spring store that has a bunch of
• 2:04
  merchandise. Now, I've recently added some
• 2:07
  new designs, so hop on over there and check some some of
• 2:11
  that stuff out. If you guys are interested in
• 2:13
  purchasing branded content, branded material I should say
• 2:17
  branded merchandise with the midgard musings, bindering and
• 2:20
  all that type of stuff. It does help support the podcast
• 2:23
  a bit. Plus you get some some great you
• 2:26
  know, T-shirts, hoodies, hats, all kinds of stuff.
• 2:30
  It's all there. Probably will be cleaning up the
• 2:34
  store a bit because there are a lot of things to choose from and
• 2:38
  and I want to make it a a good and easy user experience for you
• 2:43
  guys that are visiting the the shop and make it easy for you to
• 2:46
  to find what you're looking for. So if there's anything that you
• 2:49
  have As far as ideas go merchandise wise I am limited to
• 2:53
  what the company that I use provides in terms of material.
• 2:58
  You know hats, shirts, hoodies, leggings, sweatpants like other
• 3:05
  kinds of stuff. But if you have any ideas on
• 3:06
  terms of designs or merch that you'd be interested in
• 3:09
  purchasing to help support the podcast, shoot me an e-mail,
• 3:13
  drop me a line on my socials, let me know see what I can do
• 3:15
  for you. But today's guest is coming on
• 3:18
  here, and he is a gentleman who reached out to me through the
• 3:23
  e-mail to be a guest on the season five podcast wanting to
• 3:27
  talk about a couple of different things, you know?
• 3:30
  But one of the things that stood out to me was him talk.
• 3:36
  Wanting to talk about the difficulties or the challenges
• 3:40
  or the dilemmas. Maybe that can come up from
• 3:42
  being part of a divorced home, especially when that divorced
• 3:48
  home consists of two people who have opposing world views from
• 3:55
  like a religious or a spiritual standpoint.
• 3:57
  So we're talking about, you know, an already divided home or
• 4:02
  divided hearth with the divorce, but then an equally or or an
• 4:08
  additionally, I should say divided home when you've got you
• 4:12
  know, one parent who and when we're talking about divided
• 4:17
  homes with with with children involved, you know, one, one
• 4:22
  challenge being that first of all they are divorced, they're,
• 4:25
  they're in a divorced home, they have you know, separate places
• 4:27
  that they go back and forth. So they're torn in that way.
• 4:30
  But then there's the challenge, the additional factor of
• 4:33
  opposing beliefs, right. So Christians, Heathens, pagans,
• 4:37
  etcetera that are very opposite of one another and that can
• 4:41
  present a challenge. So I did want to come on here
• 4:43
  and talk about that with me this week and I thought that that is
• 4:45
  a topic I'm sure that will resonate with all of you
• 4:49
  listeners and viewers out here today.
• 4:51
  I'm sure if you are not, you know, going through a situation
• 4:56
  like that yourself and you at least know someone who is.
• 4:59
  So hopefully we'll get to talk about some things today that
• 5:01
  will, you know, shed a light on the topic, give some perspective
• 5:07
  and maybe, you know, provide some, some answers for you.
• 5:10
  Who knows what we'll come up with, but his name is Shandy
• 5:14
  Sampson. We did clear that it was OK to
• 5:17
  mention names here on the show, so you guys give a warm welcome
• 5:20
  to Shandy here on the Random Heathen Ramblings podcast, which
• 5:24
  is we talk about the dilemma of divided hearths.
• 5:28
  Let's get into it. All right, folks.
• 5:32
  Well, here we have, His name is Shandy Sampson and Shandy is a A
• 5:36
  N Heathen located out in East Tennessee.
• 5:40
  A transplant, as I get to understand, we were talking a
• 5:42
  little bit offline. You're not originally from the
• 5:44
  state of Tennessee, just like I'm not, but you're you're from
• 5:46
  out out West, am I correct? Yes, that's correct.
• 5:51
  So I moved out here from Utah. Very long story that I'm sure
• 5:54
  we're going to get into in part of our topic here.
• 5:57
  But yeah, it's I'm a transplant. I've been here about eight
• 6:00
  months now, just about so oh. OK.
• 6:03
  How do you like Tennessee so far?
• 6:06
  I do love the nature aspect, especially being on the east
• 6:09
  side of Tennessee where I'm in the Appalachian Mountains and
• 6:11
  everything, which I had to learn how to pronounce that.
• 6:15
  But but yeah, no, I love it because there's a lot more trees
• 6:19
  out here and everything else. I mean, it's a beautiful state.
• 6:23
  It's not the mountains that I'm used to because the Rockies are,
• 6:26
  you know, upwards of 1414 thousand or more feet above sea
• 6:30
  level and everything else when you get to the top.
• 6:32
  But as far as there being mountains here that are
• 6:36
  discernible, which is nice, And then the trees, the trees are
• 6:39
  what's getting to me right now. I love it, love it, love it.
• 6:43
  Yeah. You're in a it's it's funny.
• 6:45
  Like a lot of people don't know. At least I think they don't
• 6:48
  know. But Appalachia, while maybe not
• 6:51
  as stature esque or or impressive size wise as like say
• 6:55
  the Rockies and and and whatnot, they are they are much older
• 6:59
  than the Rocky Mountain range. So you're on old old land and so
• 7:06
  that's cool. I know a lot of people out in
• 7:08
  Appalachia in like North Carolina a lot of good people
• 7:12
  out in that area. But you're it's yeah it's it's
• 7:14
  it's beautiful territory. But welcome first of all to the
• 7:17
  show welcome to Tennessee. Thank you for being here and
• 7:20
  wanting to talk about some things that were weighing on
• 7:23
  your mind. So if you don't mind, before we
• 7:27
  jump into the topic, since you car transplant, you're from you
• 7:31
  know Colorado, Utah, etcetera. Why don't if you don't mind just
• 7:35
  give a a brief background of you know what brought you to North
• 7:38
  Heathenry, what brought you to Tennessee.
• 7:41
  If you you don't want to talk about any of those things, just
• 7:42
  kind of give the listeners and viewers a little bit of a back
• 7:45
  story about who you are. Oh, absolutely.
• 7:50
  So it's North Heathenry has actually been in my blood.
• 7:55
  My grandfather, his his grandfather moved from Norway
• 8:01
  over to the States into North Dakota to be specific.
• 8:05
  But he carried, as I've come to find out, closet Heathenry with
• 8:12
  him. So at the time, of course we
• 8:14
  know that there was still that animosity towards everything.
• 8:18
  That's why we accepted and everything else.
• 8:20
  I mean, it still isn't in some areas, but especially back then
• 8:25
  it was, it was not an easy thing.
• 8:27
  But they continued the traditions within the family of
• 8:30
  certain things that were passed down orally and just physically
• 8:35
  every year, day after day, pretty much.
• 8:38
  So when I was a child, he shared some stories with us and it was
• 8:44
  interesting because he would share these stories and I go,
• 8:47
  huh, that's interesting. Now granted, I was little.
• 8:50
  I was not old and old at all to understand any of it.
• 8:55
  And then it, it was interesting because about 10 years ago,
• 9:01
  roughly, I started getting more into it, kind of doing my
• 9:04
  research and trying to figure things out, even though at the
• 9:07
  time I was LDS or Mormon. For people that don't understand
• 9:13
  LDS latter day state, Yeah, exactly.
• 9:18
  But I started doing more research and everything and
• 9:21
  started reading more on the stories and the ettas and
• 9:24
  everything else. And it just, I just kept feeling
• 9:27
  this draw to it. And about five years ago, I had
• 9:34
  kind of fully decided that I was going to start leaving the LDS
• 9:38
  church and I started more practicing my Heathenry kind of
• 9:43
  again like my grandfather did. Where was Closet Heathenry?
• 9:47
  I just kind of moved into it and everything else.
• 9:50
  And with my divorce happening, it was kind of just boom, OK,
• 9:56
  I'm done. I'm completely done with the
• 9:59
  search. I'm completely done with all
• 10:01
  this stuff, and I'm going to live my life I deem fit as I see
• 10:05
  myself. And that was one of the best
• 10:07
  things that I ever did, because the topics that I sent to you,
• 10:13
  one of them being the Ruins and studying those and helping to
• 10:16
  heal through trauma and everything else that I've dealt
• 10:19
  with throughout my life and all that stuff through the Ruins and
• 10:23
  just learning the stories and really diving deep into them to
• 10:28
  where it was such a deep study that it's things that I never
• 10:31
  heard of before, I never learned before.
• 10:34
  Things that opened up my eyes to.
• 10:36
  OK, now I more fully understand how I can venerate the gods in
• 10:41
  my way instead of sitting there and just worshiping and hoping
• 10:45
  for their assistance. It was more so of a I'm going to
• 10:48
  get myself up and going and I'm going to follow their example
• 10:52
  type deal like hey, don't do this dumb thing, because I
• 10:55
  already did this dumb thing. So it's kind of interesting.
• 11:01
  But as far as moving out to Tennessee, my ex-wife, she
• 11:05
  brought my kids out here. I was planning on staying in
• 11:08
  Utah a lot longer than I did, and it was just I came out here
• 11:13
  and saw my kids and pretty much that same day decided I can't
• 11:17
  stay away from them. I've got to be closer.
• 11:19
  So I just not even a month later, packed up all my stuff
• 11:24
  and drove 2000 miles. Wow that's an interesting thing
• 11:30
  and then thank you for you know exploring that background and
• 11:34
  and and giving us more of a in depth kind of view into your a
• 11:37
  little bit of your world. That's a really you know when I
• 11:42
  when I hear about you know moving from one location to
• 11:45
  another that's that's everything our ancestors did.
• 11:48
  You know they they moved for different reasons.
• 11:50
  A lot of it was because you know it was it was it was poor
• 11:53
  farming land they they couldn't benefit well.
• 11:56
  You know they couldn't grow things they couldn't thrive or
• 11:59
  or or exist well on the land and so they relocated they they
• 12:03
  found other opportunities elsewhere And then of course you
• 12:06
  have you know the the the Raiders and then all the you
• 12:09
  know the Viking people that that that did the rating right that
• 12:12
  they they wanted wealth and they wanted they couldn't have it
• 12:16
  where they were. So they they they they ventured
• 12:19
  out across dangerous land and and and took life into their
• 12:23
  hands And then and all this kind of thing it it again it it
• 12:26
  echoes a lot of the you know of our ancestors ways of of
• 12:31
  uprooting and and and placing themselves in a in a in a
• 12:34
  foreign area. You know obviously you're not
• 12:36
  native to Tennessee the Appalachian Mountains.
• 12:39
  You know, it was a, it's a different space for you, but you
• 12:42
  found something there that you wanted to be close to and that
• 12:46
  you needed to be close to that being your your children.
• 12:49
  And you know when you when you mentioned being part of the the
• 12:52
  Mormon religion, the Mormon Church, I've, you know, I've
• 12:55
  talked to a lot of people. I myself am, you know, former
• 12:58
  Christian, raised in Christianity, but I didn't have
• 13:01
  family who held any Pagan or heathen beliefs, you know.
• 13:06
  So when I discovered the Heathenry, it was I met with a
• 13:11
  lot of opposition and animosity and I've been ostracized and
• 13:16
  excommunicated from my all of my most of my, I should say most of
• 13:20
  my immediate blood can because of it, right.
• 13:22
  It's it's so far apart from what they believe in and it's it's
• 13:27
  it's it's enemy. It's enemies.
• 13:29
  You know heathens in the Bible, right?
• 13:31
  The Christian Bible, it's it's all they're bad, right?
• 13:36
  Did you ever experience stuff like that from your transition
• 13:40
  from you know the LDS into to Heathenry?
• 13:43
  If you don't care, I just was curious if that would actually
• 13:46
  experience. Actually, not as much.
• 13:51
  It's it's kind of interesting because my brother also became a
• 13:59
  heathen around the same time that I did like more fully by
• 14:03
  that and it it was interesting that we both kind of decided to
• 14:07
  do it at the same time without even talking to each other about
• 14:11
  it. And our dad he's always been a
• 14:13
  hey, do do what you got to do like as long as you're happy, I
• 14:17
  don't care. And then now we do have some
• 14:21
  some other family members that maybe are a little like, I don't
• 14:25
  think this is a good idea. And they keep pushing certain
• 14:28
  things on me and everything else and sending me certain messages
• 14:31
  that I've requested not to be sent and things of that nature.
• 14:35
  But at the same time, I know it's good hearted and
• 14:37
  good-natured for of them to send those things.
• 14:40
  So I don't downplay it at all. I just tell them, hey, I'd
• 14:43
  appreciate it if you toned it down a little bit, but it's not
• 14:49
  really so much animosity. I mean, it's become a little bit
• 14:53
  more prevalent as I've moved out here with strangers, but that's
• 14:58
  about it. You moved kind of into the, you
• 15:02
  know, the Bible Belt they called the South, you know what I mean?
• 15:05
  And even though you're up in the the mountains and and people are
• 15:08
  more usually laid back, typically, you know, mountain
• 15:11
  folk, you know, they stick to themselves, right?
• 15:14
  Like and and community is a big thing for people up in those
• 15:17
  areas. But they're pretty much just,
• 15:19
  you know, it's one of two things.
• 15:21
  It's either, you know, mind my business, don't don't bother
• 15:24
  anybody else. Let people do what they want to
• 15:26
  do. It's it's either that or they're
• 15:28
  the extreme opposite. They're all up in your ass and
• 15:30
  trying to you know in here with that don't might you know it's
• 15:35
  none of their business what what you do that sort of thing so you
• 15:39
  got it's one of the other it seems but yeah being in that
• 15:41
  Bible belt area of the country where there's a church on every
• 15:45
  corner it definitely can present a challenge.
• 15:47
  So we're when you were when you were out in you know Utah and
• 15:52
  and all that did your so you obviously you have children you
• 15:56
  moved to Tennessee to be closer to them your ex-wife right
• 15:58
  relocated what was the what was the if you don't you know since
• 16:03
  we're talking about this divided hearth situation and what the
• 16:06
  dilemmas what were some things that you experienced through the
• 16:12
  transition of being a Mormon into being a heathen and and how
• 16:16
  that played into the whole dynamic of a family with
• 16:20
  children. Was your was your ex-wife part
• 16:22
  of the heathen belief that she oppose it was she indifferent.
• 16:27
  What are some things about all of that that you'd like to talk
• 16:29
  about today? So she doesn't necessarily
• 16:34
  oppose it, but she's not a part of it at all.
• 16:37
  She was born and raised in the Mormon Church.
• 16:40
  She. Also is living with her parents
• 16:43
  right now here in Tennessee, and they are fully devout Mormons as
• 16:49
  well. And so it's it.
• 16:53
  It's not so much in opposition, but I do see the slight
• 16:58
  animosity and that kind of those snide comments and whatever
• 17:02
  'cause I had my kids over one day and I told my son, hey, do
• 17:07
  you want to make something that's like a protection amulet
• 17:10
  for you? And so we sat down and we did
• 17:13
  some leather work and we made a little, kind of just a little
• 17:18
  medallion thing that he could wear as a necklace.
• 17:21
  And it had a protection bind room that he helped me create.
• 17:26
  So it was very interesting because he takes it home.
• 17:30
  He's super excited about it. But then all of a sudden, when I
• 17:33
  talked to him on the phone, he has to dig it out-of-the-box
• 17:36
  from underneath his bed. Back to the I didn't understand.
• 17:40
  It. Yeah.
• 17:42
  No. Well, I mean, it's interesting,
• 17:43
  right? Because in a in a way, the the
• 17:46
  challenges that your family had, I say a challenge, but the
• 17:50
  choice to practice privately, you say a closet, you know,
• 17:55
  practice in the closet would be like a closet heathen.
• 17:59
  He's kind of getting a taste of that right now.
• 18:02
  It sounds right like he can't openly wear the thing that you
• 18:06
  and he crafted together because of the situation.
• 18:09
  And so it has to be kind of like something that your family has
• 18:15
  experienced now for generations. Sounds like right?
• 18:20
  Yep. Yeah, pretty much.
• 18:21
  And I told him I was like, hey, you don't have to be afraid of
• 18:24
  wearing something like that. If they don't like it, that's
• 18:27
  their deal. It's not yours.
• 18:29
  If you want to wear it, that's up to you.
• 18:32
  It's not anybody else's decision.
• 18:35
  And that's what I'm trying to kind of teach them is like,
• 18:38
  don't be so in tune with everybody else.
• 18:42
  Be in tune with yourself. Because when you're in tune with
• 18:44
  yourself, everything else falls into place.
• 18:47
  It may take some time, It may be hard at times, but it's still,
• 18:52
  it's so much better for you because, you know, I'll take me
• 18:56
  as an example. I mean, our divorce was
• 18:59
  basically because I was hiding who I truly was for so long.
• 19:05
  And so I got so angry. I never, you know, obviously
• 19:08
  this question always comes up. Was there any domestic abuse?
• 19:11
  No, there wasn't. But I was loud.
• 19:14
  I was angry. I was, you know, I I was a
• 19:17
  little stern with the kids than I should have been and things of
• 19:23
  that nature and it, you know, it escalated so much that it just
• 19:27
  became an issue. And I take full accountability
• 19:29
  for it. And I've learned a lot from this
• 19:32
  experience and everything with my life and the fact that I'm
• 19:35
  able to be who I am and who I truly am.
• 19:38
  I'm so much happier, so much more patient with everything.
• 19:41
  I can have people at work that drive me nuts and it doesn't
• 19:45
  bother me at all. Just like whatever.
• 19:47
  This guy doesn't know what he's talking about or whatever the
• 19:49
  case is, you know, and just kind of brush it off and laugh it
• 19:51
  off. And before it wouldn't eat me
• 19:55
  away. And that's what I'm basically
• 19:57
  trying to teach him, is like, be who you want to be.
• 19:59
  And the the troubles that I'm running into a lot is like my
• 20:04
  daughter. She always asks questions about
• 20:07
  God and Jesus and everything else because she saw me in the.
• 20:12
  In the Mormon church, you know, I held the priesthood because
• 20:14
  every man holds the priesthood in the Mormon church.
• 20:17
  And I did a lot of teaching. And so she saw me as, hey, he
• 20:23
  has all the answers. Yeah.
• 20:25
  So next it's kind of interesting because I'm like, well,
• 20:31
  sweetheart, this is what some people believe, and this is what
• 20:36
  the Bible says, and this is what the Book of Mormon says, or
• 20:38
  whatever the case is, 'cause I do have a lot of knowledge on
• 20:41
  that because I spent years of studying it.
• 20:44
  And then when she starts asking questions about heathen Ree,
• 20:49
  it's great because I can sit there and be like, well, this is
• 20:51
  what I fully follow at this moment in time.
• 20:55
  This is what I firmly believe in.
• 20:58
  This is what I have studied and come to a conclusion on.
• 21:05
  So I can give you straightforward answers on this
• 21:07
  because that's what I feel comfortable giving you
• 21:10
  straightforward answers on. And then with my son, my oldest
• 21:14
  son, he's all for it. He there was one day I was
• 21:17
  actually on a phone call doing a a study and he picks up one of
• 21:22
  my books on the runes and he just starts reading it.
• 21:25
  And the kicker on that was he his favorite rune was my
• 21:30
  favorite rune when I first started burning them, which was
• 21:32
  Thurisas. And so I kind of sat down with
• 21:36
  him afterwards and I was like, well, let's discuss Thurisas.
• 21:38
  Let's, let's see what you what you got out of it.
• 21:41
  And he goes, well, I I pertain to it because, you know, our
• 21:44
  life has been a little bit chaotic with everything that's
• 21:48
  going on. And I was like, that's exactly
• 21:50
  why I felt so drawn to it, because my whole life has been
• 21:53
  chaotic. And then we kind of just touched
• 21:56
  base on that. We got really dove deep into it,
• 22:00
  and it was just an amazing experience.
• 22:03
  And then my youngest son, who's the same age as my bonus son,
• 22:09
  they're both five years old. You know, they kind of like
• 22:12
  they'll do the little crafty things like we did.
• 22:16
  We did a Yule thing back in December with some other Pagans
• 22:20
  and witches out here that we did the Holly King and we did some
• 22:27
  Yule logs and stuff of that nature just kind of did that.
• 22:30
  And my bonus son built did a Yule log and he loved it.
• 22:33
  He loved making it. And it's like I can do that with
• 22:37
  the little kids. It's harder when they get older
• 22:39
  because then they start asking the harder questions and like,
• 22:43
  well, how does this work and how does this work?
• 22:46
  And it's interesting that I guess we're kind of going off
• 22:51
  topic a little bit here. But when I was in the Mormon
• 22:54
  Church, I always had this conversation with people like
• 22:59
  they believe that angels came down and taught men and
• 23:06
  throughout the ages. And I'm like, well, what if Odin
• 23:11
  and Thor were the were some of those angels?
• 23:14
  Like, what if we think of it that time?
• 23:15
  And I'm like, no, no, no, let's think about this because you've
• 23:18
  got all these angels that are coming down that are teaching
• 23:20
  people and then you say that people are distorting what the
• 23:23
  Angel said. So why couldn't that be for Odin
• 23:27
  with the way that they for like the way that they portray
• 23:31
  themselves when they come down, you know, and it it was just an
• 23:36
  interesting parallel that I saw. And it's it it their their faith
• 23:39
  is so broad. I mean, their beliefs are so
• 23:42
  broad that you can tie in a lot of stuff to it It it's kind of
• 23:45
  interesting. Yeah, I I imagine so too, right?
• 23:49
  Especially as you mentioned being not just a member of a
• 23:52
  church community or or or you know, you weren't raised Mormon.
• 23:56
  You kind of came into the Mormon faith through marriage, am I
• 24:00
  right? So because of that, it was.
• 24:04
  Before marriage, I was 12 years old.
• 24:08
  OK, OK, so my bad. I didn't mean to put words in
• 24:11
  your mouth. Or.
• 24:13
  No, no, you're fine. Thank you for clarifying.
• 24:15
  But the point is, is that you know when you when you got
• 24:18
  involved in the church, you got involved.
• 24:20
  I mean you held a position of of of a teacher, right.
• 24:23
  The priesthood as you mentioned, right?
• 24:25
  Every man is supposed to know what they're talking about and
• 24:28
  be a teacher and be be a be a source of knowledge.
• 24:31
  And then you discovered you know your true your true calling your
• 24:37
  the path that that really called to you and and you abandoned all
• 24:41
  of that in favor of something that has totally different world
• 24:46
  views but yet you're finding some nuance and writing
• 24:50
  similarities to things. When we hear some of the the and
• 24:53
  I'll just say right it's lore right that the thing from you
• 24:56
  know the angels and and God. Right.
• 24:58
  Like these are all like mythological beings if you want
• 25:01
  to call them such. Right there they they they exist
• 25:03
  in the the the divine space or sacred space but they're called
• 25:07
  something specific on a specific from a specific religion.
• 25:12
  You know. So to to kind of put some, you
• 25:17
  know something that you can relate to, especially with your
• 25:19
  kids and and that's an interesting take on it.
• 25:23
  The angels were gods, you know or or something like that,
• 25:26
  right. If you tell the same story to
• 25:30
  somebody else in a different world view or or on a different
• 25:33
  path, they can find similarities or they would maybe call
• 25:36
  themselves, call them something different, right.
• 25:38
  They wouldn't call them angels perhaps or or whatever.
• 25:40
  That's a really interesting take on that.
• 25:45
  Yeah, it's. And it's funny because, I mean,
• 25:47
  I I spent years of my, like in high school years a little bit
• 25:52
  before my mom, who passed away in 2009.
• 25:56
  She was into more of the Native American side of things and she
• 26:03
  so she taught me a lot of spirituality and stuff of that
• 26:06
  nature. She was the one that actually
• 26:09
  her and I met with a medicine man and learned how to interpret
• 26:13
  dreams together 1 Summer. So we actually sat down with the
• 26:17
  medicine man in her area in Custer, SD and we learned how to
• 26:21
  interpret dreams and it was pretty cool.
• 26:24
  But that kind of started me down that interesting path.
• 26:27
  Even though I was already Mormon at that time, I still kind of
• 26:31
  was following that kind of spirituality and kind of
• 26:34
  understanding of there's different ways to interpret our
• 26:38
  lives. And I think that's why there was
• 26:42
  so many people that would tell me like, oh, you're just a
• 26:45
  heathen. And I never understood what that
• 26:47
  term meant coming from the Mormons because I'm like, well,
• 26:51
  he even just means someone who believes different than you
• 26:53
  according to the Bible. Like that's literally what it
• 26:56
  states in. I believe it's Psalms, if I
• 27:00
  remember correctly. I think it's like Psalms 116 or
• 27:02
  something like that, but it's it.
• 27:05
  It was just so interesting to me to hear that.
• 27:07
  And then as I grew into being a heathen, I was like I I am fully
• 27:13
  embodying this right now and I am loving it.
• 27:16
  I love this because it's it's such a broader spectrum.
• 27:21
  It's kind of like someone asked me once, well, is there good and
• 27:26
  evil? And I'm like, well, here's the
• 27:28
  thing about good and evil is it's not inherent.
• 27:32
  It's all about your intentions. And that's something that I'm
• 27:35
  teaching my kids, too. It's all about your intentions.
• 27:38
  Because one thing that I say a lot is, well, if you go murder
• 27:43
  your neighbor just because that's in cold blood, So that
• 27:47
  would be considered evil. But if someone breaks into your
• 27:50
  house and you kill them in defense of your family, and
• 27:53
  that's good. Exactly.
• 27:56
  Yeah. It's all it's all about the the
• 28:00
  the kind of like I've talked a bit about this on on other
• 28:03
  episodes and and it's it's the the angle that I take in my
• 28:06
  Heathenry is I wouldn't consider myself like 100% like historical
• 28:11
  reconstructionist type but I do lean heavily into the the
• 28:14
  historical side of things and I really try to find weird old
• 28:18
  ways can be practiced efficiently well and
• 28:22
  productively in modern times. Right.
• 28:23
  Practicing old ways in modern times kind of the the thing with
• 28:26
  like the Midgard museum brand has been for a while and one of
• 28:29
  the things that I've discovered over the years of my practicing
• 28:32
  is in learning is what's good versus evil.
• 28:35
  Right. What is good and evil how it was
• 28:36
  perceived in pre Christian times by you know Arch Ethan's
• 28:41
  etcetera. Was was was strictly determined.
• 28:46
  Right. What was good what was evil was
• 28:47
  strictly determined based on what was good and beneficial and
• 28:50
  of order and structure for the unit for the tribe.
• 28:53
  And if that worked for the tribe then it was good and if it
• 28:56
  didn't that was evil it was it was against the the so basically
• 29:00
  the the tribe the the community right.
• 29:02
  They are the ones that established the law And so every
• 29:06
  tribe did things slightly differently.
• 29:07
  There was obviously overtones and nuance of things that could
• 29:11
  be shared and and understood and probably agreed upon.
• 29:14
  But if you know if you did something that was against the
• 29:18
  quote law of this tribe but wasn't against that tribe.
• 29:22
  I mean you were subject to the laws of your of your tribe, of
• 29:25
  your unit. So again like you say it wasn't
• 29:27
  inherently like everything you know that there was like this
• 29:32
  this everything was good. Everything was evil and
• 29:35
  everybody believed the same thing.
• 29:36
  There was slight differences based on the unit, the tribe
• 29:40
  that established those things. So and I'm sure as you've kind
• 29:46
  of grown and and especially navigating the waters between
• 29:50
  you know, your children, you know, living in, in in a
• 29:56
  situation where they're being shown polar opposites of of ways
• 30:03
  to believe. And they're also at a point in
• 30:04
  their life that they need to be taught, they need to be taught
• 30:09
  things by the parent, by the adult.
• 30:11
  And you've got two different homes, divided homes, not just
• 30:14
  because of the divorce but because of the religion.
• 30:16
  Right. So I'm sure it's it's a it's a
• 30:18
  pretty you know navigating those waters has got to be it's got to
• 30:22
  be tough at times. You know you think when you know
• 30:25
  once one child is is really interested in what you do.
• 30:29
  So that's I'm sure makes you feel really good.
• 30:32
  You want to you want to explore more of that with them and then
• 30:36
  maybe one of the other children is isn't so much or they're more
• 30:38
  into the maybe the mother's side of doing things.
• 30:42
  How do you, how do you find that navigating those waters to be,
• 30:46
  you know, with with with your children, What are some of the
• 30:49
  ways that you're able to successfully navigate through
• 30:52
  that? Because I'm sure there's other
• 30:53
  people out here that have either experienced it themselves, know
• 30:56
  people, maybe some things that you've found in in in the way
• 31:01
  you do things can help others. So what are some ways that
• 31:03
  you've been able to navigate through those challenges?
• 31:06
  So one thing is always find commonality, no matter what it
• 31:11
  is. If they're siding with you as a
• 31:14
  heathen or siding with the other parent as a Christian, for
• 31:17
  instance, find the commonality. Don't necessarily detract them
• 31:22
  because we never want to say one thing or the other is good or
• 31:27
  bad. We want to nurture the child in
• 31:31
  their own way and how they believe and how they want to
• 31:34
  follow their lives. Because as I said before, being
• 31:38
  yourself is what's ultimately going to lead to happiness.
• 31:42
  And with that being said, it's like finding the commonalities.
• 31:48
  I I use the HAVA Mall a lot with this because there's so many
• 31:52
  commonalities between Christianity and also the Hava
• 31:57
  Mall and what we read and study and live by that.
• 32:03
  It's almost it's too coincidental sometimes when you
• 32:07
  think about it. But at the same time it it's so
• 32:10
  easy to find that commonality and make sure that they
• 32:14
  understand that hey, I'm not going to force you down on this
• 32:17
  one way. I'm going to let you decide for
• 32:19
  yourself and as long as both parties have that same thing in
• 32:23
  mind, then everything's going to go a little bit smoother.
• 32:28
  Unfortunately, I felt the need to throw it in our parenting
• 32:32
  plan when we drew that up so that it was also in a legal
• 32:35
  document that the children get to choose their own path.
• 32:39
  Yes, but. It's.
• 32:42
  I think that it shouldn't have to be that way.
• 32:45
  But I was concerned because of certain parties that are also
• 32:49
  involved just the way that they they like to pigeonhole and
• 32:53
  things of that nature. And I'm the complete opposite.
• 32:56
  I'm like, whatever you want to do, do it.
• 32:58
  I don't care. Yeah, it's I'm gonna be happy as
• 33:02
  long as you're happy. And that's the way that I that I
• 33:05
  deal with it, even though it's a struggle for me, because there
• 33:09
  have been times where I've been told, well, I heard at church
• 33:13
  that you're evil because you practice Paganism.
• 33:18
  And I'm like, well, that's a little hurtful.
• 33:20
  And if they were true, and unfortunately I do say this a
• 33:24
  lot, like if they were following true Christianity in what Christ
• 33:28
  said, then they shouldn't be judging someone for what they
• 33:31
  do. That is such a that's a very
• 33:36
  common thing. Obviously I've experienced the
• 33:38
  very the exact thing that you're telling that you're talking
• 33:41
  about with my own blood family when I.
• 33:44
  When I I abandoned the ways that that was raised in right
• 33:48
  Christian beliefs and stuff. When I abandoned that and I
• 33:52
  wanted to remain neutral about it because I knew it was going
• 33:54
  to be a sticking point. I knew that once my, my, my, my
• 33:59
  parents specifically and and some of like my uncle and aunt
• 34:02
  and then right once they knew about what I was doing that it
• 34:06
  was going to cause a rift and it was going to create a split
• 34:08
  between us. So I wanted to remain neutral
• 34:10
  about it. I didn't want to bring it up and
• 34:13
  I didn't tell them upfront. It wasn't like I just said, hey
• 34:16
  guys, I'm Pagan now. It was once they asked, I was
• 34:21
  like, I can't lie, right? I didn't want to lie.
• 34:24
  I put it that way. I didn't want to.
• 34:25
  I didn't want to lie and and be fake about it.
• 34:29
  I wanted to be honest and true and determine and say, all
• 34:32
  right, well whatever is going to happen is going to happen out of
• 34:35
  the result of being truthful and honest and upfront.
• 34:39
  So whatever is going to happen is going to happen.
• 34:42
  But it was, you know, the thing about Christianity is it's it's
• 34:46
  it's been a religion for so long that forces conversions.
• 34:50
  You know, you've got to believe what we believe or else there's
• 34:54
  consequences in all of this. So, you know, I think that's a
• 35:00
  big that's a big challenge too is, is when impressionable
• 35:04
  minds, right, Young minds, children are exposed to that
• 35:08
  side of things. Their their minds are so young
• 35:13
  at the point that how what else are they going to think?
• 35:15
  Well, the grown-ups are telling me this, right.
• 35:17
  So I've got to believe what the grown-ups say because they know
• 35:19
  what they're talking about or you know, they're my mom.
• 35:21
  They're my dad. Have you, you know, and and
• 35:26
  still kind of leaning into that side of things.
• 35:28
  Have you, have you experienced anything like that, you know,
• 35:32
  with there being confusioned with with the kids, Right.
• 35:38
  Like, well, what am I supposed to believe then?
• 35:41
  One side is telling me this, the other side is telling me this.
• 35:45
  Do do they find themselves conflicted with with life in
• 35:49
  general or. I mean, or is it pretty smooth
• 35:51
  right now where they're not, they're not having those those
• 35:54
  challenges come up. You know what I'm trying to say?
• 35:58
  So I've had that, yeah, I know exactly what you're trying to
• 36:02
  say. So they've, I can see the
• 36:05
  confusion. I can see the struggle in them
• 36:08
  when they ask questions or when I'm talking to them about
• 36:12
  Heathenry and all of that. I can see the confusion.
• 36:15
  I can see the struggle and how I've dealt with that is this is
• 36:20
  the time for you to learn, learn anything and everything about
• 36:25
  anything and everything that you want to learn.
• 36:28
  That's where you're going to find something that clicks
• 36:31
  eventually for you. And I told him I'm like, for me,
• 36:35
  it took, you know, 25 years of my life to find something that
• 36:39
  clicked. And now I'm 35 and I'm fully
• 36:43
  embodying it. And it's just, it's great
• 36:46
  because I'm following what I believe and what I want to do,
• 36:50
  and it's it. It's so hard for a child to be.
• 36:57
  I'm in that position because I know I was for a very long time
• 37:01
  and in fact I served a Mormon mission.
• 37:04
  So I was the one knocking on the doors in Guatemala.
• 37:09
  And it it's funny that you had mentioned the whole well, you
• 37:13
  got to believe what we believe from you're going to hell or
• 37:15
  whatever they want to say. Well, I was the one that if I
• 37:18
  knocked on the door and they said I'm not interested, I said
• 37:21
  OK, bye. I didn't push.
• 37:25
  And a lot of what they called the Companions.
• 37:27
  So the other missionary with you, they get mad at me and I'm
• 37:31
  like, no, you can't shove it down their throat because then
• 37:34
  they're never gonna listen. So it's it it it's always been.
• 37:40
  That's always been my personal belief and my personal.
• 37:45
  My personal gnosis, I guess is I'm not going to force someone
• 37:50
  to believe anything. I'm not going to force what I
• 37:52
  think down their throats. I'm not going to sit there and
• 37:54
  force them to listen to me. And I use this a lot in the
• 38:01
  online a lot. In fact, I just recently had an
• 38:05
  argument with a guy who is strictly historical like to the
• 38:11
  point that anything UPG was invalid and I had even expressly
• 38:17
  stated in my comment some of this is UPG.
• 38:22
  So take it as you will, you don't have to believe what I
• 38:25
  believe. And I just gave a difference, a
• 38:28
  difference of opinion and I got attacked off the comments in my
• 38:34
  messages, essentially blocked and removed from a couple of
• 38:37
  groups because of it and all this stuff.
• 38:40
  It's like I'm not going to sit here and force anything on
• 38:44
  anybody and I don't. You've said it a lot.
• 38:49
  You've brought it up in previous episodes and everything else of
• 38:52
  gatekeeping. I'm never a gatekeeper when it
• 38:54
  comes to anything, and that includes my children, my
• 38:58
  friends, my Co workers, anything.
• 39:00
  It's like you can believe however you want to believe
• 39:04
  about my beliefs. If you have questions, I'm more
• 39:08
  than willing to answer them. And that's what I tell my
• 39:10
  children a lot too. It's like if you have questions
• 39:13
  please ask me because that's the best way you're going to learn
• 39:18
  is if you ask the questions. And I think one thing that kind
• 39:23
  of for my oldest son one day it was, well, dad, you have a lot
• 39:28
  of answers for both sides of the coin here.
• 39:30
  And I'm like, well, because I've studied both sides of the coin,
• 39:34
  you know so it and I've put a lot of work into it and that's
• 39:38
  why I have a lot of these answers that I can pull quotes
• 39:41
  and things of that nature without even having to look it
• 39:46
  up. Sometimes I do just 'cause I'm
• 39:48
  like, OK, where was this? I know it was somewhere over
• 39:50
  here over on this stands. Oh yeah, it was right here And
• 39:53
  then I can point it out. But it's it's never really been
• 40:00
  too much of an issue but I can see the struggle in them of.
• 40:04
  So what do I believe And like I said it's it's the main thing is
• 40:08
  is I just tell them just learn, be open to.
• 40:12
  Anything. Be open to all knowledge and
• 40:15
  wisdom that you can gain from anybody that has it, because
• 40:20
  that's where you're going to find your personal path.
• 40:24
  You've got to know, really, I mean, so much of what I have
• 40:26
  experienced from the the the challenges of this divided home,
• 40:31
  right, 'cause I so I didn't grow up like in a divided house with
• 40:34
  regards to divorce or opposing religions and and all that.
• 40:37
  All of that came later on in life with my family.
• 40:42
  And what I've noticed is that the rift that that happens is
• 40:47
  because the the one side is is so stuck in what they believe.
• 40:53
  And and I've never faulted anyone for being devout.
• 40:55
  I mean if that's what you believe in, you're convicted in
• 40:57
  it and and that's what makes you happy, rock on with it.
• 41:01
  You know, the problem I think where it arises is when you try
• 41:05
  to, if you're like that and then you try to make others believe
• 41:08
  you believe you and believe what you believe the way you believe
• 41:12
  it, right? You've got to have your own
• 41:14
  hearth cult. You've got to have your own way
• 41:16
  of doing things. And yeah, sure, when you do find
• 41:20
  a group, find a collective. If you guys are gathering
• 41:22
  together, you know, if it's a tribe, a kindred, whatever, and
• 41:25
  and you're going to have a collective way of doing things,
• 41:28
  holding the ritual, the bloat, whatever, right.
• 41:31
  That's going to be the way that that Kindred or that tribe does
• 41:33
  it to that extent. I think that there needs to be a
• 41:38
  precedent set uniformity, right? This is how the tribe does it.
• 41:41
  Beyond that, when you go your separate ways, you return to
• 41:44
  your homes. That's your way of doing things.
• 41:47
  Your hearth is sovereign, your way of belief, how you view the
• 41:50
  world, your personal views on things, is, is, is is sovereign
• 41:53
  sacred to you and and there shouldn't be anyone in the
• 41:56
  tribe, anyone outside of the tribe, the group that dictates
• 42:00
  or or tries to micromanage you to that level.
• 42:03
  And once you find that that's happening, we've got a problem
• 42:07
  because it's becoming this toxic trait of wanting to be in
• 42:12
  control, right? I want everybody to believe it
• 42:14
  my way. They're not educated enough to
• 42:17
  to allow for that area of growth.
• 42:20
  And I like what you said about the the whole good, evil thing,
• 42:24
  right? There's nothing inherently good
• 42:26
  and giving information, providing the information,
• 42:29
  letting the letting people come up with their own answers on
• 42:34
  things that that allows for growth.
• 42:36
  If all you're doing as a person, whether it's a child or or young
• 42:40
  person or whatever. If all we're doing is is forcing
• 42:42
  information down people's throats and making trying to
• 42:45
  make them believe the way we believe, it's restricting the
• 42:48
  growth. It's it's like I want you to
• 42:51
  become the tomato, right? Well what if this plant wants to
• 42:55
  become a pepper? Well, Nope.
• 42:57
  Nope. You gotta be a tomato, you know,
• 42:59
  And if you're grooming them into that growth, and it's not
• 43:05
  natural, you know, provide that information, like that source of
• 43:09
  information, be knowledgeable about things.
• 43:13
  And that's like when I talked with my parents years ago about
• 43:16
  stuff, you know, it wasn't like I was trying to convince them to
• 43:18
  believe what I believed. All I was doing was like, look,
• 43:21
  I know both sides because I was raised in the path that you
• 43:26
  brought me up in. And now I found something else.
• 43:28
  They only know the thing that they've been told by other
• 43:31
  people that that they've that they had become convicted in and
• 43:35
  and everything else was off the table.
• 43:38
  They didn't want to even consider historical stuff,
• 43:42
  knowledge from other sources, right?
• 43:44
  It was Nope, we're just going to stick in the Bible.
• 43:48
  I'm like exactly. How?
• 43:50
  Like I'm not telling you the way I'm thinking, but can can you
• 43:53
  step outside of your box for just a moment and see what I'm
• 43:56
  seeing? Can we try that?
• 43:58
  Couldn't I mean it was like it was no there was there was no
• 44:02
  there was no way of of of reaching that that space.
• 44:05
  So I think when when we're you know those young minds went
• 44:08
  because they're so impressionable going in that
• 44:11
  direction I think is way healthier giving them the
• 44:14
  opportunity to grow in their way.
• 44:17
  But being that sort of guide right, I'm not forcing you to
• 44:20
  think a certain way, but I want you to know that there's other
• 44:22
  things and you come up with your answers for it.
• 44:26
  Yeah, exactly. It's like my again, I was
• 44:30
  talking to my oldest, so a lot of these conversations happen
• 44:32
  with my oldest, just because he is at that age.
• 44:35
  He's 10, so he's at that age of inquisitory.
• 44:39
  He's actually thinking deeply and wondering these questions.
• 44:44
  And so he goes, well, so you practice Norse paganism or
• 44:48
  Heathenry. But we also have Irish
• 44:52
  ancestors, which are Celts. I'm like, yes.
• 44:56
  And he goes, So what about those gods?
• 44:59
  I was like, well, I know a little bit, I don't know a lot,
• 45:01
  but I can point you in the right direction.
• 45:03
  We can find some things on the Internet that I can source and
• 45:06
  make sure that they're proper for the knowledge that you're
• 45:09
  looking for. And so we looked up Sarah Nunos,
• 45:12
  we looked up a whole bunch of other stuff, including the Holly
• 45:15
  King, and we just, we kind of delved, delved into it.
• 45:20
  And he goes, well, that seems like this over here with Odin
• 45:25
  and all of these other people, he's like, OK, so I can see
• 45:28
  where they kind of tie in together.
• 45:29
  I'm like a lot of them tie in together a lot more than you
• 45:32
  think it's. And then we started talking
• 45:35
  about Hinduism. You know, 'cause I know in my
• 45:38
  studies a lot of the Norse pantheon coincides with the
• 45:43
  Hinduism, the Hindu pantheon as well.
• 45:47
  And it was just interesting show him that.
• 45:50
  Yeah, the that that Indo European root is, is is obvious.
• 45:55
  I mean I've not done a lot of research into like the Vedic
• 45:59
  texts but I know people who have and and so much of the early
• 46:04
  Germanic tribes like from the South that ended up migrating
• 46:09
  north and and settling in places that are now you know, modern
• 46:13
  day Germany, Scandinavia and you know all of those Northern
• 46:16
  European countries, you know they all sort of originated with
• 46:24
  those indo European roots of things.
• 46:26
  So the the Vedic texts provide a bit of a a light into those
• 46:31
  ancient ways of of of seeing things cause a lot of what
• 46:35
  exists now in terms of source material for Heathenry.
• 46:40
  Most of it is from a time in the you know the migration period,
• 46:46
  the Viking age. It's it's all Christian
• 46:48
  influence happening, right. The Christians wrote it all
• 46:51
  down. The church was expanding and and
• 46:55
  there was a lot of bias being brought into those those stories
• 46:59
  of course. So what we can find from before
• 47:03
  that you got to go outside of those Germanic or Teutonic
• 47:07
  areas. You go back to, you say like the
• 47:10
  Hindu ways. They still the Hindu still have
• 47:14
  Minnesota calendars that they observe just like ancient
• 47:18
  Germanic and then Celts too a lot of people don't know this
• 47:20
  too but the Celts also that's how time was reckoned was.
• 47:24
  It wasn't just when the sun was in a certain point of the sky it
• 47:27
  was lunar solar. So the the you know moons were
• 47:30
  usually kept to to reckon time when to keep holy days and and
• 47:35
  all this kind of stuff and then sure they they recognize when
• 47:38
  the sun was in the sky and all that other kind of stuff for.
• 47:40
  But it wasn't so much around like their religiosity it was it
• 47:43
  was just to keep time to know when to do things when the plane
• 47:47
  cross went to tie things down for the season and all that
• 47:50
  stuff. So yeah that's great that you
• 47:53
  guys explore that area of of information.
• 47:56
  Wonderful, yeah. I I try to just pull information
• 48:00
  from anywhere and everywhere that I possibly can because it
• 48:03
  helps. Like you said earlier, it's.
• 48:07
  I'm not going to hinder my own growth and I'm not going to
• 48:09
  hinder the growth of someone else.
• 48:11
  Because if I delve, you dive deep into these other aspects
• 48:16
  and the and the origins. It like you said, it gets you
• 48:20
  into the deeper, more ancient side of things, where you see
• 48:25
  where it originated from and how it grew into what it was into
• 48:30
  the Teutonic areas, the dramatic areas, the Scandinavian areas
• 48:34
  and things of that nature. And then when you see how it
• 48:38
  grew because of not just where they were but also the climate,
• 48:43
  how they had to survive and everything else.
• 48:46
  I mean you see that growth and that's where like I, I, I agree
• 48:52
  with you, we want to be historically accurate but also
• 48:55
  in modern times, but that's exactly what they were doing as
• 48:58
  well. They were being historically
• 49:00
  accurate but for their modern times and their modern place.
• 49:05
  So it it's it's interesting how we do that even today.
• 49:10
  And some there are some people out there that unfortunately are
• 49:14
  like, Nope, it has to be done this exact way when it was done
• 49:17
  in the 15th century or whatever. You know, it's it's interesting
• 49:21
  to think that way because I'm like, but we're not those
• 49:24
  people. We are different.
• 49:25
  We have different circumstances and everything else.
• 49:28
  We can't just build an altar in the middle of the woods because
• 49:31
  it's, you know, someone's private property or it's, you
• 49:34
  know, a National Forest or whatever.
• 49:36
  And you know, you'll probably get fined.
• 49:39
  Exactly. It's your own property.
• 49:41
  Different climate now you know just the the the social climate
• 49:44
  the the with the way the world is that you're like, yeah, you
• 49:47
  got to be. And I've always seen growth as
• 49:52
  adaptive. You know what I mean?
• 49:53
  You can't you can't expect a tree to grow big and tall if
• 49:58
  you're sheltering it in a in a small bubble of of an area.
• 50:04
  You know what I mean? It's got a, it's got a growth
• 50:06
  happens where the roots go deep and out and then the branches
• 50:10
  and everything grows up and out. So there's it it all.
• 50:13
  It's symbiotic. It has to live together
• 50:16
  harmoniously and things have to happen naturally.
• 50:19
  And if you start pushing too much into this grooming sort of
• 50:22
  thing, I mean there's a, there's a, there's you know, I think
• 50:25
  there's as long as we approach it carefully and and realize
• 50:29
  that, yes, there's there's a time and a place for certain
• 50:31
  things, right, Because you're growing.
• 50:32
  You don't want to obviously just let it get wild and out of hand.
• 50:35
  You got to kind of keep it, you know, tidy or whatever, you
• 50:40
  know, keep some control over the least if you want to have that
• 50:43
  order of things, but. Yeah.
• 50:46
  And it's it's kind of that okay. I'm gonna the way that I look at
• 50:49
  it is I'm gonna branch out and learn all these other things,
• 50:52
  right? But it's all for my central
• 50:54
  focus. Yeah.
• 50:55
  So it's. I'm trying to grow here, Yes.
• 50:59
  Do I need to pull from here and here?
• 51:01
  Absolutely. But it's, you know, it's all
• 51:03
  coming back to that central focus and that growth that I'm
• 51:06
  focusing on at this moment in time type deal.
• 51:11
  It's it. It's I just, like you said, when
• 51:15
  people are so dogmatic, it's so hindering for their growth.
• 51:21
  I'll use my I won't even call her my girlfriend anymore.
• 51:25
  I'll call her my domestic partner at this point.
• 51:29
  She is what we have found to be a Christo Pagan, which was a new
• 51:34
  term for me a couple months ago, because she does believe in
• 51:40
  Christ, but she doesn't follow the Bible to the tea.
• 51:44
  She likes to have that personal spirituality with it and
• 51:48
  everything else. And it was interesting because
• 51:51
  during that during the your celebration that we did, I was
• 51:56
  able to because we it was a group of a whole bunch of
• 51:59
  people. So I I asked him, I was like,
• 52:02
  well, would you mind if I did sumble to end it all, like
• 52:05
  that's all I want to do. I just want to do sumble.
• 52:07
  Let's end it all this way, let let's have some fun, right.
• 52:10
  And so during sumble, my domestic partner, she hailed
• 52:16
  Christ. And of course, me being me, I'm
• 52:19
  like, whatever, like, and I went with it, you know, And I enjoyed
• 52:23
  it because I'm like, hey, this is to show everybody that we can
• 52:27
  all band together instead of being so segregated and pushed
• 52:31
  aside, dude. Do you want to hear a funny
• 52:34
  story? Oh yes.
• 52:36
  So we had our Yule. My tribe had our our Yule just a
• 52:41
  couple of weeks ago 'cause we we observe the historical dates of
• 52:45
  pre Christian Yule so we we follow the like the Luna solar
• 52:48
  pattern of of when the moon hit with the after the solstice and
• 52:51
  all that right. And this year our one of my one
• 52:57
  of my tribe tribesmen he's our fuel right So he kind of acts as
• 53:02
  the as the chieftain's right hand for for big decisions right
• 53:06
  when someble is held. He's kind of the the one to
• 53:09
  challenge any oaths that that come up.
• 53:12
  But this year he, his, his, his, his, his domestic partner and
• 53:18
  her son attended Yul for the first time.
• 53:23
  Yeah, when we did our symbol, this was their first time being
• 53:27
  a part of symbol and it was one of the greatest symbols that
• 53:30
  I've ever house held or hosted or been a part of just in
• 53:33
  general, right. I've been a part of many
• 53:35
  different symbol traditions, ours being the most I think out
• 53:39
  of all that I've attended but been a part of different ones.
• 53:42
  This one was the most meaningful and emotional.
• 53:46
  There was laughter, there was crying, there were tears.
• 53:48
  I mean, it was everything all around, right?
• 53:51
  But this. It's funny that you mentioned
• 53:53
  that you know your person there. She she, she held Christ during
• 53:57
  symbol. Or she she, you know when when
• 54:00
  the round of toasts to the gods got around to my fool's
• 54:05
  girlfriend's son. Of course, he doesn't really
• 54:09
  know anything about the Norse belief on things.
• 54:11
  You know, she she does her stuff.
• 54:13
  Their Harth cult is their Harth cult.
• 54:16
  And he's like, I really don't know much about the the gods.
• 54:20
  He's like, but I'm just going to, I'm going to raise my glass
• 54:22
  to Jesus. And we all just kind of like
• 54:26
  stopped and looked and I'm like, hold on, go on, like, and I
• 54:30
  said, well second like let's let's allow this because you
• 54:35
  know, from the stories, I mean this guy did some good stuff.
• 54:38
  I mean, you know, he wasn't a bad dude.
• 54:41
  From the. Stories, at least.
• 54:43
  And I'm like, I'll, I'll drink. I said, You know what?
• 54:46
  Everybody hail Jesus. And I'm like, I've never had a
• 54:50
  symbol where Jesus was hailed. And I'm like, it's so funny that
• 54:55
  you mention that, 'cause I'm like, I've never heard that
• 54:56
  happening before. Apparently it's happening.
• 54:58
  So yeah, and well. And it's I think it's because
• 55:02
  like we're we as a heathen community in the greater
• 55:08
  spectrum. And I want to say a lot that
• 55:11
  I've known. We're allowing so many people in
• 55:15
  to kind of experience what we believe and what we do to show
• 55:20
  that hey we're not all skinheads, Okay.
• 55:22
  Yes I shaved my head but we're not all skinheads.
• 55:25
  We're not all racist. You know, we are welcoming of
• 55:27
  everybody. And for someone to come in and
• 55:31
  be that vibrant for it, because, I mean, she was vibrant.
• 55:35
  She was like, hail Jesus Christ. And I was like, you know what,
• 55:38
  I'm gonna match that energy. Why not hail Jesus Christ, You
• 55:42
  know? And now there were some people
• 55:45
  that were, like, a little taken aback.
• 55:46
  And so I paused at that moment. I was like, normally I will
• 55:49
  never do this during assemble. I will never take a pause.
• 55:53
  Yeah, but. You all have to understand that
• 55:57
  when I say that we are an all-encompassing group, I am not
• 56:02
  going to stop anybody from hailing whoever, wherever and
• 56:06
  however they want because that is detrimental to their own
• 56:10
  personal growth and path. We are not going to do that as a
• 56:13
  people. And then it was like, oh, I'm
• 56:17
  like, you want to be welcomed and accepted for yourself in
• 56:21
  this Bible belt, then you've got to welcome and accept them too,
• 56:24
  unfortunately. Like sometimes, unfortunately,
• 56:27
  but most of the time. And I'm probably going to get
• 56:31
  inevitably when when people hear this they're going to be like
• 56:33
  what what kind of looney Tune character is this guy that he's
• 56:36
  having stumble with Jesus in it and all this.
• 56:38
  Look I get it that's not for everybody.
• 56:41
  And if that's not how you want to do it, if you want to set
• 56:43
  boundaries if you want to do your thing then you rock on with
• 56:45
  that right for people listening or watch this right like like no
• 56:50
  no judgement either way point is right stumble and we do have
• 56:55
  some guidelines right like you know our tribal our tribal
• 56:57
  custom is when when the tribe gathers when when we do our
• 57:00
  ritual. We're not going to, as a tribe,
• 57:04
  hail Loki. Like that's a rule.
• 57:06
  Like we have a law set that Sookie's not a part of ritual.
• 57:09
  We have our reasons why. But when it's like when it's
• 57:13
  sumble, right, this is an opportunity for us to bond.
• 57:16
  The ancient traditions of sumble ritual was a way for the war
• 57:20
  band, the Lord and their things to to to connect to, to gift,
• 57:24
  give gifts to do all these things.
• 57:26
  So in like fashion, right where we're we're, this is the bonding
• 57:29
  ceremony. Where we're we're talking, we're
• 57:30
  laughing, we're experiencing all the the gamut of emotions that
• 57:34
  happen through our human experience, right?
• 57:36
  This is a way for us to bond. And if and if the boy wanted to
• 57:40
  because he didn't know anything else, he's like, well, this
• 57:42
  means something to me. So I'm going to hail this God.
• 57:46
  Way to go, buddy, right? I mean, you're cognizant.
• 57:49
  You're aware enough, you have enough presence of mind to know
• 57:52
  what this whole thing is about. And you did the best you could
• 57:55
  do with what you know. And we'll, we'll support that,
• 57:59
  you know, Now we're not going to go out in our ritual space and
• 58:02
  bring in other gods. We're going to stick strictly to
• 58:03
  our right unit, gods, but in our rituals, it's like that's how we
• 58:06
  do, that's how the tribe does things.
• 58:08
  But in in the context of sumble, as long as it ain't low key, I
• 58:12
  guess, then let's let's go with it, right?
• 58:16
  Yeah, exactly. And and that's the thing.
• 58:18
  It's like, it's sumble, OK, sumble for me.
• 58:23
  Like, like you said, it's it's the you're supposed to have fun
• 58:28
  with it and you're supposed to have all those experiences and
• 58:32
  that strengthening of the tribe. You know, 'cause that's what
• 58:37
  it's doing. You're you're growing together
• 58:38
  as a tribe by celebrating your triumphs, sorrowing with each
• 58:43
  other, feeling those emotions together.
• 58:46
  And that's where, and I agree completely, Hey, you guys want
• 58:50
  to keep that out. If anybody wants to keep that
• 58:52
  out, that's up to you. I mean, that's your thing for me
• 58:55
  and my tribe and my kindred that I'm starting.
• 58:58
  Like we are going to accept those people, and it's OK
• 59:01
  because there are people out there that are, as I said,
• 59:06
  Christo Pagans. Or there's another term that I
• 59:08
  can't remember off the top of my head, that they don't feel
• 59:12
  welcome in a church, but they feel welcome within a kindred or
• 59:18
  a tribe or a group of pagans because they feel the same way
• 59:23
  that they do. And it's interesting to think
• 59:27
  that way, but it's, you know, let them be comfortable if you
• 59:30
  can. If you don't feel comfortable
• 59:32
  with that, if that's not to your tribe's specifications, that's
• 59:37
  perfectly fine. I, you know, that's your heart,
• 59:41
  not mine type deal. You know?
• 59:44
  Yeah. And it goes back to what you
• 59:45
  talked earlier about with the good and evil thing, you know
• 59:47
  and and how it it it, it goes down to what was good for this
• 59:51
  tribe may not work for that tribe.
• 59:53
  That's what is. So what's good for us is good
• 59:55
  for us. What's good for Y'all is good
• 59:56
  for you and that's a good segue into kind of another part of of
• 1:00:01
  what you want to talk about building the community.
• 1:00:03
  You just mentioned a Kindred or or starting one at least.
• 1:00:07
  So do you want to talk a bit about that in your area where
• 1:00:10
  you are? I know you said East Tennessee,
• 1:00:12
  but but for those listening, maybe narrow down a bit better
• 1:00:15
  so that they know where they're at.
• 1:00:18
  Absolutely. So I am in the tri-cities area
• 1:00:20
  right now. I am in Johnson City, so on the
• 1:00:23
  South side of the tri-cities area on in Eastern Tennessee.
• 1:00:28
  I'm actually going to be moving to Kingsport in the very near
• 1:00:31
  future once I secure my place up there so that I am even closer
• 1:00:35
  to my children and if that's where I will pretty much be
• 1:00:39
  holding everything. So I am starting a Kindred
• 1:00:44
  called the Kindred of the Ofadnar and I have a few people
• 1:00:48
  that are we're slowly getting it together etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:00:54
  We it started initially because my friend in Utah was planning
• 1:01:00
  on re coming back to Bristol, VA and him and I were going to
• 1:01:05
  start the Kindred together. But now he's staying in Utah
• 1:01:08
  instead of moving back. So he pretty much handed the
• 1:01:12
  reins over to me because I was pretty much gathering people as
• 1:01:15
  it was. But it's interesting because
• 1:01:19
  trying to find that community when you are moving 2000 miles,
• 1:01:24
  even 50 miles half the time it it can be difficult.
• 1:01:28
  And I know you've discussed actually just very recently
• 1:01:32
  about online communities versus not online communities and
• 1:01:37
  actually in person communities. And I found that in order to
• 1:01:41
  find the in person communities or start an in person community,
• 1:01:46
  you have to go the online route in order to find the people in
• 1:01:49
  order to get it started. And so it it in all reality it
• 1:01:54
  started out with I joined a few groups before I even made it out
• 1:01:58
  here that were I think it was Pagans and Witches of Kingsport
• 1:02:03
  or something like that. And then there was the Pagan
• 1:02:06
  family of the tri-cities, which is one that I am also now at the
• 1:02:11
  admin of because the person who started it is moving out of the
• 1:02:15
  state and going to Florida. And this is who we did the Yule
• 1:02:20
  thing with. And there's a couple of other
• 1:02:26
  groups out here Facebook group wise, but it's that's how I
• 1:02:32
  started to find people and I had one guy in particular.
• 1:02:35
  It was literally my second week being here. him and I met up, we
• 1:02:40
  had lunch and I did a root reading for him and everything
• 1:02:44
  else and it just turned out to be an amazing situation for him
• 1:02:48
  and I and we're becoming great friends.
• 1:02:53
  I mean we did. He gifted me a horn and as you
• 1:02:58
  guys you've discussed in the past as well a gift for a gift.
• 1:03:01
  We were looking at some of my rings and he goes, wow, I, you
• 1:03:04
  know, I I really like that ring. And I was like, you know what?
• 1:03:07
  Here, it's yours. You know it it.
• 1:03:09
  And it just happened to just be organic.
• 1:03:12
  It was like, he liked it. I'm like, hey, have it.
• 1:03:15
  You know, it it fits. You have it.
• 1:03:18
  You gifted me a horn. I'm gifting you a ring.
• 1:03:22
  The gift for a gift, as it says in the hall of mall.
• 1:03:25
  And then I happened to go to a clinic here in Johnson City and
• 1:03:32
  have my hammer on. I have all my tattoos and
• 1:03:35
  everything else, and this guy who was drawing my blood goes do
• 1:03:40
  you practice like I do? And then it started from there.
• 1:03:44
  And so him and I are going to be doing some study sessions
• 1:03:49
  together and stuff of that nature, 'cause he hasn't really
• 1:03:52
  delved into the Ettas before. He's just kind of gone based off
• 1:03:56
  of the Internet and everything and.
• 1:03:58
  Now how? He's going to be moving into the
• 1:04:00
  Ettas with me. So we're going to do a deeper
• 1:04:03
  dive into it because during the Yule celebration, we were
• 1:04:07
  sitting around and one of these guys that I had never met also,
• 1:04:10
  he was talking to us. And he goes, well, there's this.
• 1:04:14
  And I remember saying, where did you get that information from?
• 1:04:18
  And he goes, well, what do you mean?
• 1:04:19
  And I pulled out my poetic Etta and I opened it up to the story.
• 1:04:23
  And I said, this is where I'm questioning you because I see
• 1:04:26
  this here and he goes, I've never even noticed that before.
• 1:04:31
  I'm like, OK, cool. So do you want to join in our on
• 1:04:34
  our study sessions too? So it's just kind of grown
• 1:04:39
  organically in its own way. And we're right now kind of
• 1:04:44
  everything's falling under that Pagan family of the tri-cities.
• 1:04:48
  It's slowly moving into the Kindred of the Olfenar.
• 1:04:52
  So I'm working on getting that going, but I do, I did find
• 1:05:00
  people through happenstance that are interested in having that
• 1:05:04
  community and going the community and everything else
• 1:05:07
  and that tribe, and that's how we're going to do it.
• 1:05:11
  Once I have everything set up, where I have my bigger place in
• 1:05:15
  Kingsport, I'm going to actually be starting to host a lot more
• 1:05:20
  bloats and everything else where I can actually bring all of us
• 1:05:25
  together and everything. It's just, you know, the past
• 1:05:28
  eight months have been a rigmarole of everything and a
• 1:05:31
  whirlwind of new experiences and new people and new place.
• 1:05:35
  So it's coming together, if anybody.
• 1:05:40
  Yeah, it does take time and that's and that's a given.
• 1:05:45
  You know, some people think, Oh yeah, there's so many heathens
• 1:05:47
  out here. So yeah, it should be easy.
• 1:05:49
  It's like, no, it's not that easy because some people just
• 1:05:52
  don't want to be a part of the community.
• 1:05:55
  And sometimes you don't want people in your community, yeah.
• 1:06:00
  Yeah, absolutely. Because there's oh.
• 1:06:06
  Go ahead, oh. I was going to say because, I
• 1:06:10
  mean, it's like you can get these people like I've met in
• 1:06:13
  the past that are, they say that they're, you know, not a
• 1:06:18
  particular way. But then when you get down and
• 1:06:20
  dirty with them for a few months, all of a sudden they
• 1:06:23
  actually are that particular way.
• 1:06:25
  And you're like, well, you're not welcome within this
• 1:06:28
  community because of that thought process.
• 1:06:29
  I'm sorry. And then it can cause problems
• 1:06:33
  in the long run because hey, it wasn't they weren't thoroughly
• 1:06:38
  vetted or you didn't take the time.
• 1:06:41
  You were just rushing yourself to start a community, yes?
• 1:06:46
  I've seen that happen so many times.
• 1:06:48
  I've bet you have to where you get the like, you know, because
• 1:06:51
  that's what we talk about so much is community, right?
• 1:06:53
  Tribe Kindred's right. The the the grassroots level
• 1:06:57
  where I believe Heathenry really shines and thrives and does.
• 1:07:00
  It's what it's supposed to do and and how it's meant to be is
• 1:07:04
  it's at the grassroots level, right.
• 1:07:06
  People being together in person. So we talk about it, people hear
• 1:07:11
  it and they go, all right, well, that's what I got to do.
• 1:07:14
  And they think it has to be done like overnight.
• 1:07:15
  Like we got to have this group as Kindred.
• 1:07:17
  Let's just let's just join an online community, meet people in
• 1:07:21
  our area, have a park, move, go to a, go to a restaurant, have a
• 1:07:25
  meal together and then boom, we're the kindred of the blah
• 1:07:28
  blah blahs. Yeah.
• 1:07:30
  That's that's rushing it, that that's it's good effort.
• 1:07:34
  I think like it's a that's a great way to start.
• 1:07:36
  But you got to know one another. You got to you got to vet one
• 1:07:38
  another. You have to prove your worth to
• 1:07:40
  one another before you come up with this insular group.
• 1:07:45
  Right this this extension of our families the because that's what
• 1:07:49
  tribe to me is right. It's it's you're not necessarily
• 1:07:52
  blood related to me but you are Now you have we have done things
• 1:07:55
  together. We have worked ourselves to one
• 1:07:56
  another. We have vetted each other out to
• 1:07:58
  be comfortable with creating this this insular group that is
• 1:08:03
  an extension of the family unit. We are tribes people now.
• 1:08:07
  We we, we rely on one another for things.
• 1:08:11
  I know that I can rely on you. You know you can rely on me that
• 1:08:14
  that doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen within a few
• 1:08:16
  months. It takes time.
• 1:08:18
  So for people listening, watching, right, what you're
• 1:08:20
  doing out there in the Johnson City Kingsport area of of, you
• 1:08:24
  know, the Tri-City area, what we're doing here in Middle
• 1:08:27
  Tennessee, wherever you are listening, watching, right,
• 1:08:29
  wherever your respective group might be or or located, realize
• 1:08:33
  that slow and steady. You got to take your time.
• 1:08:37
  You know, vet your people, make sure that the people that you're
• 1:08:40
  bringing in, if, if you don't have an existing kindred or
• 1:08:44
  tribe, that if you're starting one, that you've set boundaries,
• 1:08:47
  that you've set guidelines that there are, there are certain
• 1:08:50
  there's an order to it and that it works for everybody.
• 1:08:53
  That and that you're clear about it.
• 1:08:55
  Right. Like when we talk about our
• 1:08:57
  tribe here in the Middle Tennessee area, we're very
• 1:09:00
  clear. This is what we are and this is
• 1:09:01
  what we are not. If this aligns with what you're
• 1:09:04
  looking for, then come on in, right?
• 1:09:06
  Let's talk, let's let's let's get to know one another.
• 1:09:10
  This is our way of doing things. And if that aligns with what you
• 1:09:12
  want to do, let's let's continue our our conversations.
• 1:09:15
  If it doesn't, no hard feelings. But we're we're doing it the way
• 1:09:20
  we we're doing it for a reason. And so exactly in order.
• 1:09:24
  Has to half exist. And that's kind of why I I
• 1:09:29
  landed on the thought of, OK, I'm going to start a study
• 1:09:33
  group. Like we are specifically going
• 1:09:35
  to do studies because there are some of the, some of the lore,
• 1:09:39
  some of the stories that you're like, OK, this would be a hard
• 1:09:44
  one. Or you will really figure out
• 1:09:46
  who this person is if you actually study this with them
• 1:09:49
  and see their mindset on it, such as, Oh my gosh, I can't
• 1:09:54
  remember the name of it and I'm drawing a blank because I'm
• 1:09:56
  terrible like that. But it's when Heimdall comes and
• 1:10:03
  basically creates the caste system through oh, Rick Stooling
• 1:10:08
  Rick Stooler. So I was actually, it's funny
• 1:10:11
  because in my original study group that I was in, I was
• 1:10:17
  actually travelling back from here in Tennessee to Utah and we
• 1:10:22
  were discussing the Rick Stooler and one of the guys asked the
• 1:10:26
  question. So what do you believe as far as
• 1:10:30
  it is slavery? OK.
• 1:10:32
  And I was in the Atlanta airport while we're on this call and I
• 1:10:38
  went and one of the other guys was like you realize he's in the
• 1:10:41
  Atlanta airport. He is not answering my question
• 1:10:44
  right now. I'm like I have not answered my
• 1:10:48
  question, period. Like we are not.
• 1:10:50
  No, we can talk. We can discuss that in person
• 1:10:53
  during Midsummer when I am back. So that's.
• 1:11:00
  Yeah, that's what we did. We discussed it then, but it was
• 1:11:02
  just so funny because it's like there are some of those
• 1:11:06
  difficult stories to discuss because of what their thought
• 1:11:10
  processes were as far as the caste system and what our
• 1:11:14
  thought processes are currently and breaking ceilings and
• 1:11:17
  whatever. And that's, you know, my ADHD
• 1:11:20
  brain going off on a tangent. Yeah, well, that goes back so
• 1:11:25
  much too, I think. Also, right.
• 1:11:27
  You know how we view the lore, right.
• 1:11:31
  So, you know, you talk about getting a getting a steady group
• 1:11:34
  together talking about the Eddas, I mean the Eddas, Poetic
• 1:11:38
  Prose Edda, right. You know, and and and how much
• 1:11:41
  of all of that should be taken into literal context?
• 1:11:44
  I mean, again, there's stories there.
• 1:11:45
  There's mythology. It's not.
• 1:11:48
  Yep. Yes, there are some things about
• 1:11:50
  what's written in those source materials that reflect A
• 1:11:53
  societal structure or or or community worldview at the time,
• 1:11:59
  right. That the way the world was, the
• 1:12:01
  way people saw things. I mean, obviously hospitality
• 1:12:03
  being a big thing, right? But why was hospitality?
• 1:12:06
  You didn't have hotels everywhere in, you know, the
• 1:12:09
  8th, 9th and 10th century Scandinavia.
• 1:12:12
  You had people living in homes when you're traveling, you
• 1:12:14
  needed shelter. Hospitality was a big part of
• 1:12:17
  the culture at the time. Nowadays, and I've talked about
• 1:12:20
  this like a long time ago, I got members saying, like, just
• 1:12:22
  because a stranger shows up to your door and needs shelter,
• 1:12:26
  you're under no obligation. This isn't the 8th century, the
• 1:12:28
  9th century anymore, to give them shelter you like, we'll go
• 1:12:31
  find a hotel, man, Right. There's there's one everywhere.
• 1:12:34
  So different and you don't want. It well, and that's the thing
• 1:12:38
  though, it's like for hospitality because it's like I
• 1:12:40
  was originally going to be travelling over to South Dakota
• 1:12:44
  at the end of this month and early next month to go see my
• 1:12:47
  mom's grave and I was going to travel through areas to go see
• 1:12:51
  some of my extended family. The first thought out of their
• 1:12:54
  mouths was, you're staying with us.
• 1:12:57
  And it's like, so extending the hospitality to your family, to
• 1:13:01
  your heart, that's understandable.
• 1:13:04
  But then when it comes to a stranger, it's like, well, I
• 1:13:05
  don't have any money for a hotel.
• 1:13:07
  OK, cool. Well, let me dig out 50 bucks
• 1:13:09
  and you can go get a hotel room. But that's that's a way that you
• 1:13:13
  could potentially give hospitality.
• 1:13:17
  And that's, you know, you're not inviting a stranger into your
• 1:13:20
  home with your kids. Because that I'm sorry in this
• 1:13:22
  day and age is ridiculous. Right.
• 1:13:26
  Unless you're locking them in the basement for the night, you
• 1:13:29
  know that's a whole different story.
• 1:13:31
  But no, it's, you know, there's different ways to interpret the
• 1:13:37
  more for our times and for, like I said, for some people it's,
• 1:13:43
  well, there's a hotel down the street go on over there or for
• 1:13:46
  other people it's, hey, here's 20 bucks to go towards the hotel
• 1:13:50
  room. That's all I've got on me or
• 1:13:52
  whatever the case is or like I said, family saying you're
• 1:13:55
  staying with us instead of wasting your money on a hotel.
• 1:13:58
  We have the room, you know, stuff of that nature.
• 1:14:01
  It's it's situational. It's time and it's society and
• 1:14:06
  its current state. Yeah, yeah, 100% agree.
• 1:14:10
  You know, and so, so, and I think another thing that happens
• 1:14:14
  is, is, is people, especially if they're new coming into this,
• 1:14:18
  they want to take what's in the Eddas, right, The Lord, the
• 1:14:22
  mythology, whatever. And they want to use it almost,
• 1:14:25
  especially if they're coming into this with previous
• 1:14:27
  religious baggage, if they're coming into it from Christianity
• 1:14:29
  specifically, where the Bible is.
• 1:14:31
  Your basic book of instructions before leaving Earth, right?
• 1:14:35
  A book of of of, of instructions.
• 1:14:38
  And they they look at the Lord, the the myths, the Ed is as an
• 1:14:42
  equivalent to that. I personally don't see it that
• 1:14:45
  way. Yes you can glean information
• 1:14:47
  and you can maybe use it to be an inspire your worldview or or
• 1:14:51
  help you formulate your worldviews.
• 1:14:52
  But when it comes down to you know morals, ethics all of that
• 1:14:57
  from you know archies and times it was it was different times
• 1:15:01
  and they didn't. I don't think they necessarily
• 1:15:04
  used the the myths as their guiding principles on on how to
• 1:15:08
  be. It was.
• 1:15:09
  It was, again, situational. It was it was the culture at the
• 1:15:11
  time. Different areas do things a
• 1:15:14
  little bit differently. But it wasn't like they all had
• 1:15:16
  a copy of the proetic edit or the poetic edit or the prose
• 1:15:19
  edit laying on their bedside and then they flipped to a page and
• 1:15:22
  well, according to Rick Stoola, stands at 39.
• 1:15:24
  You know where? All stands at 67.
• 1:15:28
  It wasn't like that, you know? No, it was the way that I look
• 1:15:32
  at it. It's like I'm ordering Norse
• 1:15:36
  mythology for kids book again. I used to have it.
• 1:15:40
  I gifted it to my brother because he has a three-year old
• 1:15:43
  daughter now. And I gifted my eldest nephew of
• 1:15:47
  copy of my poetic edit because I was like hey, you know you're at
• 1:15:50
  that age, here you go and everything.
• 1:15:53
  But I'm ordering that because it's like there's they're more
• 1:15:56
  their stories. There's it's kind of like any
• 1:16:00
  sort of fable that's out there. There is a reason for the story.
• 1:16:06
  They told these stories for whatever reason.
• 1:16:09
  IA good one that I use a lot for that's not poetic or anything
• 1:16:14
  is. Oh my gosh, Krampus.
• 1:16:19
  K Krampus was a story to get kids to fall in line, to follow
• 1:16:25
  the rules, to be good kids and everything else, right.
• 1:16:29
  But it wasn't. I mean it, it's it's a story.
• 1:16:34
  And that's where I look at the stories of the gods in the Eddas
• 1:16:38
  and the lore and everything as OK, what can I learn from this?
• 1:16:44
  What can I grasp from this? That's in an abstract or
• 1:16:48
  potentially literal because as a lot of some people, you know,
• 1:16:53
  follow the Hava Mall, it is the Hava mall.
• 1:16:55
  It is law and some people look at it and go, it's more like
• 1:16:59
  guidelines, kind of like the pirate code.
• 1:17:03
  But it's it, it's interesting because and this is what I've
• 1:17:06
  been teaching my children too is like take the stories and learn
• 1:17:11
  something from them. So when we discuss things of
• 1:17:16
  that nature, like the Rixdula or even the stories of Christ in
• 1:17:21
  the New Testament, if they're asking you to discuss that with
• 1:17:24
  them, you know, take it as a story of how to either live or
• 1:17:30
  learn from a mistake from that. Because in the end, we've
• 1:17:34
  learned of many mistakes. And then there's some that are
• 1:17:36
  just so fun, that are just fun. Stories like Thor dressing in
• 1:17:41
  drag to get me older back, you know, it's it can be fun and it
• 1:17:48
  can also be kind of a a learning experience for you.
• 1:17:52
  And that's something that I I will stress throughout life to
• 1:17:59
  my kids is don't take anything as literal as far as lore goes.
• 1:18:05
  Right, but make. Sure.
• 1:18:07
  You, you know the lore and you understand it to a point of,
• 1:18:11
  hey, this is what's happening in my life right now.
• 1:18:16
  And I know that this happened in the war over here.
• 1:18:19
  So how should I react in this day and age, in my personal way
• 1:18:24
  of living? Yeah.
• 1:18:26
  And that's kind of how I look at it.
• 1:18:29
  Yeah, no, I I do want to say, right.
• 1:18:30
  I mean, you can go one way or the other.
• 1:18:33
  There's there's plenty of of folks nowadays who have no idea
• 1:18:37
  what is contained in the Eddas 'cause they haven't read them,
• 1:18:41
  you know, that it it it, it's part of the learning process.
• 1:18:44
  It's definitely part of the learning process.
• 1:18:46
  I just think that they're they're not they're not intended
• 1:18:50
  or ever meant to have been taken so literally figuratively, like
• 1:18:55
  like the the morals, the ethics at the time, right.
• 1:18:57
  How it was formulated into the stories, right, the the the
• 1:19:02
  names of the gods, etcetera. It's it's it's all relative,
• 1:19:05
  right. So that's my part of it is is
• 1:19:08
  yes. Read them.
• 1:19:09
  Learn them. Know what's in there.
• 1:19:12
  Don't walk around with a copy of the poetic edit like it's a
• 1:19:14
  Bible or a Book of Mormon or something and flip it out and be
• 1:19:16
  like, well, here's what you should be doing and why you know
• 1:19:22
  well and. It's it's so interesting too
• 1:19:24
  because you get some people that are questioning, right, And they
• 1:19:30
  ask questions about from you and you go, well, if you really want
• 1:19:33
  to know the gist of everything, why don't you read the ha them
• 1:19:37
  all, You know, that's kind of what I tell them.
• 1:19:40
  I'm like if you really want to know kind of the gist and not
• 1:19:43
  like the whole depth of everything and then you can come
• 1:19:45
  to me with more questions and then I can go in more depth with
• 1:19:48
  you, that's a good place to start.
• 1:19:50
  I mean that's my personal thing. I again, I don't look at the
• 1:19:54
  Hobble Mall. As you know, it's law, but it's
• 1:19:58
  a good way to look at things. It does give a good crash course
• 1:20:03
  introduction to morals and ethics.
• 1:20:07
  There's there's a lot of stuff in the hall and all that.
• 1:20:09
  They are, you know, the words of of the high one.
• 1:20:11
  And there's, you know, again a lot of good valuable things to
• 1:20:16
  learn from it. So yeah, I would agree that's
• 1:20:18
  it. That's a nice way to introduce
• 1:20:19
  somebody softly into the ways of of thinking and then we can kind
• 1:20:23
  of go from there. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:25
  Exactly. And then of course, people ask
• 1:20:27
  the question, well, how was the world created?
• 1:20:30
  And then I'm like, OK, now you're in for a trip because it
• 1:20:33
  starts with nothing and then goes to a cow like it's like and
• 1:20:41
  now you're about to get into the trippy weirdness and why You
• 1:20:44
  understand that they pretty much all 8 shrooms, right?
• 1:20:49
  'Cause there's this thing where the guy's sweat, you know,
• 1:20:52
  creates this, and then his, his the the the the the fragments of
• 1:20:56
  his skull or that and everything else, and yeah.
• 1:20:59
  You go exactly and it's. It's, it's.
• 1:21:03
  Some weird interesting stuff and then but what always got me and
• 1:21:09
  this is you know we're going so weird.
• 1:21:11
  Off topic but I'm loving it right now.
• 1:21:15
  Is in the creation mess in the creation more we were or mankind
• 1:21:22
  was created from trees from driftwood right.
• 1:21:25
  Ask an emblem. And then you look at, like, our
• 1:21:29
  thumbprints and the inside of a tree and the rings and
• 1:21:34
  everything. And so it's like, huh, maybe
• 1:21:37
  that's where they had that idea. Maybe that's where they came up
• 1:21:41
  with that. Or maybe that, you know, this is
• 1:21:44
  how we are connected to the earth.
• 1:21:46
  In this aspect, however you want to view it, that's your
• 1:21:50
  prerogative, right? That's your path.
• 1:21:54
  But it's just interesting to think about because I've I've
• 1:21:57
  had people that are like, well, what about like all this
• 1:21:59
  scientific stuff? I'm like, OK, cool, I can
• 1:22:02
  challenge you on that. But I'm not going to go into it
• 1:22:04
  right now because it might make your brain melt a little bit.
• 1:22:07
  But because I I know about people that are very scientific
• 1:22:12
  and everything else. And so I've done my studies and
• 1:22:15
  learned from other people as well and then dug into it a
• 1:22:19
  little bit myself as well and kind of figured out, OK, I can
• 1:22:23
  see where this coincides as well.
• 1:22:25
  And that's, yeah, I can see where it would break someone's
• 1:22:27
  mind. Well, yeah, for sure, 'cause, I
• 1:22:30
  mean, it's almost impossible to, to avoid philosophical
• 1:22:34
  conversations when you combine science, right, and the
• 1:22:40
  mythology of different cultures, you know, because you're gonna
• 1:22:45
  go down so many rabbit holes and you're gonna and you're gonna be
• 1:22:47
  get lost in it. So at some point, you know, I
• 1:22:50
  think there's it's, it is, it's great stuff to get into if you
• 1:22:54
  really want to, you know, twist your mind up a bit.
• 1:22:56
  But at some point, you know, OK, well, let's get back to reality
• 1:22:59
  here. Let's get back to the point of
• 1:23:01
  what we're doing and why we're doing it right.
• 1:23:03
  And so there might be things that from a mythological
• 1:23:06
  standpoint at a time were portrayed in a way because they
• 1:23:10
  didn't have the science to back it up.
• 1:23:12
  Right now we we've advanced so far into modern times and we've
• 1:23:15
  become so capable of discovering things, seeing things from an
• 1:23:19
  angle and through a lens that just didn't exist at the time
• 1:23:22
  when you know, the creation myth for Germanic peoples was was
• 1:23:27
  thought up or whatever, you know?
• 1:23:29
  But yeah, it goes really into so many different things that we
• 1:23:33
  could spend hours and hours and days and weeks and months and
• 1:23:35
  years talking about. Wanted to, absolutely.
• 1:23:38
  Absolutely. It's a never ending discussion.
• 1:23:42
  It's a great thing to, you know, bring people in, right?
• 1:23:45
  You know, community wise, they're great topics to to have
• 1:23:49
  conversations with and build a rapport with people and just,
• 1:23:52
  you know, build that community which for people that may be
• 1:23:56
  listening or watching in the areas that you talked about,
• 1:24:00
  right, the Tri-City area, East Tennessee.
• 1:24:02
  Is there a way if they want to connect with you since you're
• 1:24:05
  doing stuff in that area for them to be able to do so?
• 1:24:08
  Is there a way for them to kind of you know, for your guys wires
• 1:24:12
  to cross, if that's a thing? Oh, absolutely.
• 1:24:15
  The easiest way to contact me is through Facebook.
• 1:24:18
  So I am the only Shandy Sampson that I know of out here in
• 1:24:23
  tri-cities, Tennessee area, so it shouldn't be that difficult
• 1:24:27
  to find me otherwise. You can also join that Pagan
• 1:24:32
  family of the tri-cities, that group, and I'm an admin there,
• 1:24:37
  so you can join there and then message me directly from there.
• 1:24:41
  We'll meet up. We can talk anything like that.
• 1:24:45
  My work schedule is a little crazy just because I'm on a
• 1:24:47
  rotational where I go day shift, night shift, day shift, night
• 1:24:51
  shift. And then some days I have one
• 1:24:53
  day off in between and some days I have you know seven days off
• 1:24:56
  in between. But it's regardless.
• 1:25:00
  I I will make the time. I I'm always more than welcome
• 1:25:04
  to have people message me, talk to me.
• 1:25:07
  Whatever the case is, I would absolutely welcome it in any
• 1:25:13
  way, shape or form. So feel free to find me on
• 1:25:16
  Facebook. It's the easiest way or I have
• 1:25:20
  my e-mail address as well. I'll say that really quick and
• 1:25:23
  then if you want to put it in the show notes, however you want
• 1:25:26
  to do it, my e-mail is shandy SHANDY samsam1988@gmail.com.
• 1:25:37
  We'll put all that in the show notes and down in the
• 1:25:39
  description for the video viewers of the podcast.
• 1:25:42
  So we'll we'll link your profile if if you don't mind.
• 1:25:45
  And at the very least, we'll link the the the Facebook group
• 1:25:49
  the Was it Pagan? Pagan family, Yeah.
• 1:25:53
  Pagan family. tri-cities. I will actually show you it on
• 1:25:58
  my phone, just to make life a little bit easier here.
• 1:26:03
  Yeah, and you can always too just.
• 1:26:05
  Because it's kind of a weird way, but.
• 1:26:10
  OK. If you can even read that on
• 1:26:12
  part, there we go. So Pagan family.
• 1:26:13
  Heart. tri-cities, Tennessee. So great.
• 1:26:17
  We'll link that in the show notes too.
• 1:26:18
  So for folks that are up in that neck of the woods or that or
• 1:26:22
  maybe ever going through that area that want to connect with
• 1:26:26
  people from that area, all of that's going to be LinkedIn, the
• 1:26:29
  show notes in the description. So you guys be sure to to check
• 1:26:32
  all that out. And I think too man, since we're
• 1:26:35
  going to like we've been going on now for almost an hour and a
• 1:26:38
  half, I I think we'll, we'll probably tie this one off.
• 1:26:43
  But I know there's going to be people I'm sure that have heard
• 1:26:47
  you know what you and I've talked about today that maybe
• 1:26:50
  want to reach out to you directly or or ask some more
• 1:26:54
  questions. And so for the sake of
• 1:26:57
  everyone's time that's watching, listening, I mean an hour and a
• 1:26:59
  half is a really good bit of information for people to to
• 1:27:02
  absorb so they can get in touch with you directly if they want
• 1:27:05
  to. And all your contact information
• 1:27:08
  will be in the show notes. So you guys be sure to check all
• 1:27:10
  that out Before we do go though, we did cover a lot.
• 1:27:14
  I mean that, you know, divided hearts, divided households, the
• 1:27:18
  various challenges that come up, you really did share a lot of
• 1:27:22
  your insight and how you're navigating through those waters.
• 1:27:24
  And I appreciate you wanting to talk about this seemingly
• 1:27:28
  delicate and sensitive topic to the world today, because I know
• 1:27:32
  a lot of people can relate. So I do want to thank you for
• 1:27:36
  inquiring about it and then being willing to come on here
• 1:27:38
  and and share your thoughts. Absolutely.
• 1:27:41
  It was my pleasure. I really, really enjoyed the
• 1:27:44
  conversation that we had today. And for anybody that is
• 1:27:47
  struggling and you just want to talk to someone that's in the
• 1:27:50
  same boat again, my contact information will be in the show
• 1:27:53
  notes and everything, so feel free to reach out.
• 1:27:56
  I'm always welcome for those messages, even if it's just a
• 1:28:01
  man. I'm really struggling.
• 1:28:02
  I just need it. I need an ear for a minute, like
• 1:28:05
  if I could call you or whatever. And I'm more than welcome.
• 1:28:08
  Depend So. Thank you for that.
• 1:28:10
  Thank you for being accessible to people.
• 1:28:13
  That's a valuable thing nowadays.
• 1:28:15
  Everyone's looking for a place that they can feel welcome and
• 1:28:19
  they can I like say call their heathen home and maybe what
• 1:28:23
  you're doing is gonna be offering this to some people and
• 1:28:25
  that are that are listening and watching this.
• 1:28:26
  So that's good stuff man. Thank you so much.
• 1:28:30
  Anything else that you wanted to go over real quick before we we
• 1:28:33
  wrap things up. We did cover a lot of things.
• 1:28:35
  We we we rambled on about all good stuff, I think.
• 1:28:38
  So any other last words that you want to impart before we stop
• 1:28:42
  the stop the recording at least. Just don't forget to follow your
• 1:28:47
  path and be happy with who you are and don't conform for
• 1:28:50
  anybody or anything. That's good advice.
• 1:28:55
  Have your own mind, right? Find your way or make one.
• 1:28:59
  Yes. Well, this has.
• 1:29:02
  Been a lot of fun. Don't jump anywhere real quick,
• 1:29:04
  Sandy when I stop the recording we'll we'll touch base offline
• 1:29:07
  there. But for everybody that's
• 1:29:09
  catching the episode today, thank you so much for your
• 1:29:12
  support. Be sure to check the link tree
• 1:29:14
  link that's in the show notes as well for all the ways you can
• 1:29:18
  show your support to the Midgard Musics production of the Random
• 1:29:20
  Heathen Ramblings podcast. Follow me on all the socials.
• 1:29:22
  There's new merchandise on the Spring store.
• 1:29:24
  All of that's in the link tree link down below, so do be sure
• 1:29:28
  to check it out and connect with Shandy out there in the East
• 1:29:32
  Tennessee area and maybe you'll find a heathen home for yourself
• 1:29:35
  or your loved ones. But this has been another fun
• 1:29:38
  episode of the podcast. So thank you Shandy for being my
• 1:29:40
  guest this week. And for everybody else that's
• 1:29:43
  listening and watching. May the gods continue to notice
• 1:29:46
  you. May your ancestors smile upon
• 1:29:48
  you. We'll see you in the next one.