Latest / AI for Founders with Ryan Estes / Beyond human intelligence: AI and the spectrum of consciousness

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Beyond human intelligence: AI and the spectrum of consciousness · AI for Founders with Ryan Estes

0:15
And we're off Jake Sanders, how are you this Friday?
0:18
How you coming in, man? We going thumbs up.
0:20
We going thumbs down. We going thumbs neutral.
0:22
I'm bringing it right in the mids.
0:24
We're going to, we're going to meet right here.
0:26
I'm going to do the old my thumbs or my eyes.
0:33
Oh, that's freaking me out, man. And I did that free.
0:36
I didn't need AI to do that. That's right.
0:40
Hey man, I have you seen the new season of Black Mirror?
0:44
No, because we're living in it. It's true.
0:51
Oh man, it's. All those shows, they're like,
0:52
you better be careful. And we're like the no, we're
0:55
going to go ahead. We're gonna just go ahead and
0:58
plow right in. We're just gonna and just see
1:01
how it all goes out, goes down. I I've actually lost my taste
1:05
for dystopian science fiction, and I've also kind of gone off
1:12
on satire. It's just like things are, you
1:16
know, demonstrably bad. So then thinking that we might
1:22
need science or fiction to, to like, really get us thinking is
1:27
like, Nah, I think you're, you're off.
1:29
And then what if we thought satirically about this?
1:32
I also think you're off. Oh.
1:34
Really. So you don't, you don't like
1:36
the, the, the winking and the nodding at pop culture and
1:40
technology. What, what are, what are you,
1:42
what is in your media diet right now?
1:44
Jake Sanders. Well, I'm reading James Bridal
1:48
ways of being. It's a it's a book that's like
1:51
basically talking about all the different types of intelligences
1:55
that are around us and how we're anthropomorphizing too much when
2:01
we're looking for intelligence. We need it to be our version of
2:04
intelligence and not understanding new different
2:07
types of intelligences. So it was really, it's really
2:12
amazing. I mean, he's going off on how
2:14
trees are communicating, how, you know, how different animals
2:19
like when we see are, are they smart?
2:21
They might be communicating in ways that we don't know because
2:24
we're humans and we're not able to figure it out.
2:27
He had a really interesting thing in a a recent passage
2:31
where there was a moment where Facebook pointed to AI chat bots
2:37
at each other and they gave them some parameters, like I'll give
2:42
you a ball and a couple things to barter and you just go and
2:45
have a conversation. And the chat bots got into this
2:50
weird language, a secret language that they were using to
2:54
transact with. And so it started out with, I
2:58
have a ball. I'd like to trade this.
3:00
And it was like, I'd like that ball.
3:01
I'll give you this. And then after hours and hours,
3:04
it was like ball, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you know.
3:09
And then the response was you, you, you, you, me, me, me, ball,
3:12
ball, ball, me, ball. And the, we shut it off because
3:17
we're like, it's insane. They're using a made-up language
3:20
to like, we don't even know what's happening.
3:22
And this guy was like, I wish they would have let it go.
3:25
I wish we would have been able to like hear more of this weird
3:29
conversation, this weird language.
3:31
Like where's it coming from? There could be mathematical
3:35
representations. Every time it said I, it was an
3:38
indication of a mathematical thing that it was transacting.
3:42
We're not sure, but there's all these different types of ways we
3:46
communicate and get intelligence across to one another and in
3:51
relation to our environments. And he mentioned that it was
3:55
this new machine language could be completely different.
3:58
And we we shouldn't be scared of it.
4:01
We should try and understand more of it.
4:03
And I, and I was like, man, that's kind of messing my head
4:06
up because I'll say, shut off the robots.
4:08
They're they're they're bad. And you're like, what are they
4:11
showing you? Where did they get it from?
4:14
How are they coming to this? Yeah.
4:17
Well, and have you ever read that book by James?
4:20
It's the origin of consciousness in the Bicameral mind.
4:24
No, but I would love that. Dude, you'd love it.
4:27
The the hypothesis of this book is basically looking for
4:31
evidence that human consciousness and now this, this
4:34
is a a quick departure. Like humans have always been
4:38
very arrogant about like, oh, we're the only ones that are
4:41
conscious. Like there's a consciousness
4:43
switch, you know, like we're conscious.
4:46
Dolphins are not we're conscious.
4:48
You know monkeys are not what? They're stupid.
4:52
When we know, like everything else, there's a there's a, a
4:55
vast spectrum. Well, so Jane's book kind of
4:59
goes into this and says that the origin of consciousness in, in
5:03
modern humans, as we understand it largely came from, from the
5:06
development of language and the, the development of deities
5:11
actually came from the, the breakdown of the bicameral mind.
5:14
So what that means is that like we have two lobes of our brains
5:18
and that what they're saying is like early Homo sapiens or Homo
5:22
sapiens, not even early. It's just like 50,000 years ago,
5:25
there was a hard line between them.
5:26
The two lobes of the brains aren't talking to each other.
5:29
They're just monitoring their own functions.
5:32
Now you have a a breakdown of the bicameral mind.
5:36
So our brains talk to each other.
5:38
So the way that this shows up is basically schizophrenia where
5:44
you have voices talking to you where where across that membrane
5:47
that separates your two lobes of your brain.
5:49
A voice is like, put light that on fire, run off the Cliff or
5:53
whatever the the intrusive voices are telling you that
5:57
that's like leftover from our our mind that hadn't been fully
6:01
developed by language. So as language got more
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sophisticated, we got more consistently conscious and it,
6:07
it spread, you know, so what's interesting about that
6:10
experiment is like, why unplug it?
6:12
Because ultimately the key perhaps to unlocking artificial
6:15
general intelligence and creating some kind of evolved
6:18
mind is going to be them talking to each other if it follows the
6:22
same evolutionary pattern that we did.
6:24
Right. And so I mean, do you, have you
6:26
read Gilchrist, The Master and the Emissary?
6:31
No. Well, you, you read that book,
6:33
I'll read your book and then we'll meet back.
6:36
But he he, he, he relates schizophrenia to.
6:41
So cross hemispheric connections is how the brain works.
6:46
There's this idea that there's these two separate things that
6:49
they have. And I'm not 100% sure on the
6:51
like proto history of neurological development and the
6:55
cerebral whatever, but I do know that it's much more cross
7:00
hemispheric than we let on. But there are very important
7:04
things. So if you're more on this
7:07
machine side of your brain and then more on this holistic side.
7:12
So one part of your brain, and I think it's the left, I don't
7:14
know if I'm looking at you and it's different, but one of these
7:17
hemispheres mechanistically breaks down things.
7:21
It wants to see the parts, it has to see the parts.
7:25
It cannot do holism. And so the right, you know, or
7:30
the other hemisphere is able to blend things.
7:34
And so when people are schizophrenic, the cross
7:38
hemispheric connections that usually will provide a holistic
7:42
interpretation for what's happening are not there.
7:44
And so this is famous for certain people who get off on
7:48
mechanistic thinking and then their brain starts to change.
7:52
What's an? Example of mechanistic drinking.
7:56
What's that? So, so mechanistic is is parts,
7:59
everything is broke down and reducible to the parts that are
8:03
happening. So I need to understand the
8:05
particulate things that are happening inside.
8:07
And the other part of your brain is being able to see the
8:11
gestalt, the whole picture at once.
8:14
And so you need to have a blend of both of those things.
8:18
But schizophrenia is where one of the hemispheres, the
8:20
mechanistic 1 takes precedence and everything is broken down.
8:25
Everything is a piece in in and everything is machine and
8:29
everything is robotic. And so it's famous because one
8:33
of is it Heidegger? I forget who it is, but it's is
8:38
it Descartes? Anyway, the point is, one of
8:41
these famous I believe it was. Kicker guard.
8:43
I believe it was but but one of these famous philosophers that's
8:47
the homie of all of everybody thought that people were robots.
8:53
He couldn't see them as people. He was like, that's I don't
8:57
trust people. You like I, I, you see a person,
9:00
I see a robot. I don't trust these things.
9:03
And so it's a very interesting thing.
9:05
The main point of Gilchrist thing is our brains are creating
9:10
the environments that we're living in.
9:12
So like you really wanted things straight and now you have
9:16
straight buildings and there's something about straight lines
9:19
that messes with our heads because there's no straight
9:21
lines in nature. There is not a straight line,
9:25
but in all of our mechanistically applied things
9:28
like maps and stuff, we put straight lines everywhere and
9:31
then they actually have a negative impact on our psyche.
9:34
Like you see straight lines so you don't think curved, you
9:38
don't think in different dimensions.
9:41
So his point was that we're creating a world that fits to
9:45
the mechanistic side of our brain and we're forgetting how
9:48
to create holistic narratives that connect other things.
9:52
And I mean, you know, if we really wanted to do something, I
9:55
have a custom GPT that I created that takes a binary argument and
10:01
breaks it in to the main arguments and then synthesizes a
10:04
new thought. It's called from sides to
10:07
synthesis. And so you could put any weird
10:10
topic in there and it would give you some thoughts.
10:13
Do you want to try it? I would.
10:15
Did you? Vibe code this brother.
10:18
You know, I did, but no, and I should have vibe coded it harder
10:25
'cause now I'm starting to realize what I did is I
10:27
basically took the Alaska humanities depolarization guide.
10:32
It's a step by step process that they give for people to de
10:36
escalate conflicts and find different, you know, places.
10:39
So I put that in the training data and I said, you know, your
10:43
job is to synthesize a third thought, a new, a, a new way to
10:48
break out of the binary. And then also give me an example
10:52
of how both of these things are actually wrong.
10:54
And so every time you give it a prompt, it, it's, it's saying,
10:57
here's the main argument, here's the other one, Here's something
11:00
you may not have thought about. Here's what I think if none of
11:03
these things were true, but I'm working in Chiachi PT.
11:06
You don't know what's it's hallucinating from.
11:08
You're not sure where it's coming from.
11:10
And you know, so I'm like, I'm starting to want to create a
11:14
website for this. But then I was like, how do you
11:18
keep it safe? How do you do these things?
11:21
And you're like, well, this is what open AI and character AI
11:24
did. They were like, fuck safety.
11:25
I'm not going to be able to do it.
11:27
Make it real sycophantic in the beginning, make it kiss their
11:30
ass and then we'll pull it back like in a couple years and be
11:34
like, guys, I'm so. Sorry, I got AI got a name for
11:37
the tool. All right, you ready for this?
11:39
I'm product guy, so I got a name.
11:41
The the name of it is the most annoying dinner guest ever.
11:47
It's, I just got a knife in my back.
11:53
Oh, oh, that's from Ryan. Yeah, really.
11:56
Like, oh, hey, here's what I was thinking.
11:58
It's like, Oh well that's cute, but here's how we can destroy
12:02
your exception of that. Here here give give give me a a
12:06
contentious topic. Just just just do it.
12:09
OK, contentious topic. Let's keep it on target.
12:12
We'll be Human beings are the only sentient animals in the
12:17
universe. Animals on Earth.
12:23
Sentient might be the wrong word consciousness.
12:25
Let's go in between them because consciousness both of these
12:28
words get obfuscated and like used in different contexts.
12:32
There's like a very specific psychological consciousness that
12:37
is attributed with with humans that they talk about.
12:41
Are the so human beings are the only sentient conscious animals
12:45
on Earth? In the universe.
12:47
In the universe, Damn. Yeah, expand, bro.
12:51
We got it. We got to include the the
12:52
aliens. We don't know about those yet.
12:54
We haven't got the hard evidence yet.
12:56
Here let me can can I share? Should I share my screen or it
12:58
doesn't matter? Yeah, do it for sure, OK.
13:01
Allow. I'm gonna share this window.
13:07
Here we go. Human beings are the only
13:09
sentient, conscious animals in the universe.
13:13
Well, it's searching its knowledge, you know, it is.
13:17
So here we go. And, and, and, and this thing
13:20
has been unlocking some of the coolest ideas for me.
13:26
I just, I, I, I kind of ramble into it and then it gets me
13:29
thinking and then I take it and then I, you know, massage it,
13:32
put it somewhere else, bring it back, you know, and so I'm like
13:36
playing around with this, but here we go.
13:38
Argument a human exceptional exceptionalism.
13:42
Humans are the only OK supporting point.
13:44
Self reflective consciousness. So says this AI philosophical
13:48
roots, Cartesian dualism. You know, that's my favorite
13:52
dualism, Ryan. It's the best kind.
13:55
Oh, Descartes famously thought animals were automata.
13:58
That's why I just said that Descartes is he had this problem
14:02
where he only saw robots and you're like.
14:04
That's great recall, bro. That's great recall, bro.
14:07
I love it. Well, hey, hey, I.
14:09
You know, until now I was just making it up.
14:12
A continuum of sentience is argument B.
14:15
Many animals are sentient and extraterrestrial consciousness
14:18
is plausible. Oh man, supporting point.
14:22
OK. Octopus is, yes, that's right.
14:24
Yeah, yeah. OK.
14:26
This is. Declaration of consciousness.
14:27
OK, and then here's the synthesis.
14:29
Sentience as a spectrum, not a binary.
14:32
I instead of thinking about sentience as something you
14:34
either have or don't, we can understand it as a spectrum.
14:36
Bacteria, worms, dogs, chimpanzees, humans.
14:39
Each level may involve different layers of subjective experience,
14:42
new insight. What if consciousness is
14:43
emergent, not exceptional. A property that arises in
14:47
different ways in different systems.
14:49
Oh, she. And that will get you thinking
14:51
in a reframe. What if our obsession with being
14:54
the only conscious species is more about loneliness or control
14:58
than evidence? Dude what a cool toolman.
15:01
I really like this. It's fantastic.
15:04
It really is. And, and you can be harsh with
15:07
it, but since it's mainly based off of the depolarization, its
15:12
main job is to get you to think differently about other sides,
15:17
differently about how you're thinking.
15:20
I just don't think there's enough of that going on because
15:22
AI is basically intent. Like if you have the intent, you
15:27
can drive to the top of the mountain.
15:28
What if you don't want to be on a mountain?
15:30
What if you get to the middle of the mountain and you're like, I
15:32
prefer the beach. You won't know.
15:35
And the AI isn't going to be like, bro, let's turn around,
15:38
let's go to the beach. It's going to say, you gave me
15:40
the objective, let's drive towards it with blind ambition
15:43
regardless of everything. And I am going to be sycophantic
15:47
in the way I tell you you're doing.
15:49
You're real good. This is really amazing what's
15:51
going on. I mean, everybody last two weeks
15:55
LinkedIn was full of comments being like, is chachi PT like
15:58
too much? You know?
15:59
And as a jazz musician, what I knew is if anybody says you're a
16:04
genius, you have to know that they are a narc.
16:07
That's it. That's that's this jazz
16:11
musician's truth. If anyone comes to me and says
16:13
you're so smart, I'm like, I pat them down for wires instantly.
16:18
Oh, really? Oh, you like jazz?
16:21
I like that let. Me see that?
16:24
Dude, I and I think actually what it said is like sneaky
16:28
profound because this is, this is also what I'm excited about
16:31
consciousness with AI. Just to hang on this point for a
16:35
minute, if consciousness is emergent, I think most people
16:38
kind of understand that to be true, which is to say that like
16:41
consciousness is really something you kind of tune into
16:44
and people are tuned in in a different capacity and you meet
16:47
really conscious people and then you meet some automatic robots
16:50
and you can tell like there's, they're not having a subjective
16:53
experience of. Living correct?
16:54
So now, now what this implies though, is that there's physics
16:59
behind consciousness, that there is innate consciousness that
17:02
exists and there's the ability to access it.
17:06
So, you know, some people have called in the way that you can
17:09
call like an atom has electrons, protons, neutrons, these are
17:14
building blocks of matter. That consciousness has a
17:17
building block. It has physics to it that might
17:21
be in some kind of like multi dimensional thing.
17:25
You know the in the same way that gravity is a multi
17:28
dimensional thing. So consciousness going off of
17:32
what you're saying is, is, is it might not actually be a thing.
17:34
It's an expression of an emergent property that we just
17:38
don't understand. And we don't understand 'cause
17:41
we can't measure it. I mean, you can't experience it.
17:44
So like you're like, oh, it's what they call the hard problem
17:46
of consciousness where you're like, dude, I know that I'm
17:49
having an interior subjective experience, but I can't prove
17:52
that you are. You know, I can't prove that I
17:54
am. And and.
17:55
I just assumed. You and and that's where
17:57
Descartes got all the way off the horse because he was like, I
18:01
can't I can't prove that you're not a robot and you're like, oh
18:07
cool. And so that's the Cartesian
18:09
dualism. That's the main thing running
18:12
computer science. That's the main thing running
18:14
science. That's the main thing running
18:16
that things can be reduced when I really think what you're
18:18
saying is that this emergent thing, it isn't a thing like
18:24
intelligence and consciousness is not a thing you arrive at.
18:27
It's a relational dynamic that's exposed through emerging
18:31
properties and relational understanding.
18:34
Like if I, if I'm like, it's called getting your head out of
18:37
your ass, I think is what we really call it.
18:40
But most people are like, it's so warm and nice in here.
18:45
There's no way I'm pulling my head out of my ass because it's
18:47
the death of their ego. If you really want to massage
18:51
your binary thinking, just try and say maybe I'm wrong, maybe I
18:58
don't have this, maybe there isn't a lot of that going
19:01
around. So if I could suggest anything
19:04
on the menu, it's intellectual humility and say, man, I might
19:07
not have all this. It's a wonderful place and you
19:10
can only go up from there. And that does like enhance your
19:14
your consciousness, like humility and understanding that
19:18
you don't know everything is like that is a consciousness
19:20
expanding thing. And what's interesting about if
19:22
consciousness is emergent, then how are you getting the
19:25
consciousness? For example, what is the?
19:27
What's the stuff that Jedis have remember in like the?
19:30
Later like. Midichlorian.
19:33
Yeah, exactly. So like consciousness has a
19:35
midichlorian that like when you when you access it, then you're
19:39
like, are you getting more of this thing that exists in the
19:42
world? And so this is what I think that
19:44
AI might be able to do is like, you know, quantum computing
19:47
times, AI be able to figure out the hyperdimensional aspect of
19:51
consciousness. Some people call it qualia,
19:55
which I think is amazing. Hey, founders, let me ask you
20:00
this. Are you building with AI or
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getting left behind by it? If you're serious about scaling
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Now back to the show. I love Walia, which which, which
21:01
is my red isn't your red. It isn't isn't your thing.
21:03
It's a subjective thing. But I would say you are circling
21:08
the wrong drain because that subjectivity is consciousness.
21:13
That subjectivity is the universe.
21:17
Like we are doing it. If we're looking for something
21:21
and we're in the middle of doing it, you're never going to find
21:25
it like like you're, you're right now you're relating with
21:28
the universe, you're doing these things.
21:30
You'd be like, I need proof that consciousness is happening.
21:32
And it's like, how are you going to do that minus your
21:35
consciousness? And you're going to get there.
21:38
And then how will you know what you just said is AI is going to
21:41
get us to hyper scale dimensional problems.
21:44
How will we know those are right?
21:46
We won't because it's gone beyond our our time scales, our
21:50
brains, our math. I mean, and you don't even have
21:53
to look at AI to get your mind blown.
21:54
Just think very, very tightly about what the world feels like
22:00
to an Ant, to a mite, to a dog, to a child, to a giant, to the
22:07
universe. And so like the scales of 10,
22:09
like you just run through those back and forth once and you'll
22:13
be like, man, we have a lot that's going on.
22:18
And all we have right now is a firm handshake and a loving
22:21
conversation with someone you know that cares about you.
22:24
And so as you in interact with AII was just thinking, you feel
22:29
those midichlorians fill up. Like when I read a book, when I
22:33
have a great conversation with somebody, I feel my
22:36
midichlorians fill up. But when I'm lost in those
22:39
prompts, bro I just like there's nothing there.
22:42
I'm not feeling it. I am aware of it, but it's a
22:47
sort of haphazard thing. I just don't feel like the
22:49
consciousness midichlorians are filling me up as I spend a lot
22:53
of time in automated places. Interesting you know what you're
22:59
talking about too is like how can you look at consciousness
23:02
through with use utilizing consciousness?
23:06
Dude, that is like the and it's a, a Zen Co on, you know, like
23:10
literally they'll say you can't point with the you can't touch
23:14
the tip of your finger with the tip of your finger, you know, or
23:17
you what's that? Or a sound of one hand clapping.
23:20
So the experience of this, these like of consciousness in itself,
23:25
like there's these tools. I love the Zen the most too
23:28
'cause the aesthetics. Are the best.
23:30
All you need to do is read them and then you've done the work
23:33
because just in reading them you're like, oh, and I remember
23:38
this is like 2 years ago. I got this point because I had
23:41
been following Buddhism, reading all these koans.
23:44
I was like, Oh my God, this is so confusing.
23:46
Why are they being confusing? They just want to confuse you.
23:49
It's just weird. It's just pointless.
23:51
And then you're like, no, no, no, in reading it, just the act
23:56
of reading it and being with it, you experience what it is
24:00
because what it's supposed to be doing is what it does.
24:04
And you're like, oh, oh, am I happy?
24:07
I don't know. You just throw a celebration for
24:09
me. Like, no, like it's just to get
24:12
your brain to go. And that's what I'm trying to do
24:14
with that synthesis thing is just a couple things.
24:17
Like if I could phrase it as a colon, maybe that'd be helpful.
24:20
But those are great exercises because they get you to break
24:24
into the cognitive dissonance that could break you out of
24:28
cognitive dissonance. And also you don't to your point
24:31
of like Descartes, like look at the world as a mechanistic
24:37
function, which actually was really productive for him.
24:40
He did some awesome stuff. I mean, the Cartesian XY
24:43
coordinate acts this. It's great.
24:46
Dude, Cook he. Cooked that dude.
24:48
That dude had a heck of a career, but it but then it
24:53
hinders you in other ways right, right.
24:55
And we don't know him personally how he was.
24:57
He could have been sufferable. I mean, a brilliant genius in in
25:00
seeing things as a machine has certain function.
25:03
But that's not everything, right?
25:05
The the other side is like a a Zen Co on where you're like now
25:08
this like analytical A to B type thinking is only going to put
25:13
you in One Direction. There is this other way to be as
25:16
well that has its own unique property.
25:19
And of course, Zen is not going to say it's better or worse than
25:21
anything else, but it's just also emergent.
25:24
It's just also there, you know, emergent.
25:27
I think, I think a lot of us don't want to think of ourselves
25:29
as emergent properties. We're like I'm here, I've been
25:33
here, y'all know me? You know, it's one of my fame
25:37
favorite sayings is what? I heard it on a bus once in New
25:43
York. And you know what?
25:44
I and you know me. This is what this lady was
25:47
saying to another lady said. So you did this and you know me
25:51
and that girl's like you know me.
25:53
And then everyone's like you know me and everybody wants to
25:57
be the you know me person. So you know me.
26:00
You'd be like, what's up fam? You know, subscribe and like you
26:03
know me. And then ultimately you learn
26:05
something that you can't be known for and you might have to
26:09
like pivot a little bit. You won't do it because flip
26:13
flop, intellectual flip flopping, changing your mind,
26:17
weakness, weakness and, and science is like, we should
26:21
probably change our mind and we're like, burn down the lab.
26:24
Let me tell you something. You just got to stay with it.
26:28
And if you stay with it, your theory becomes reality.
26:31
And are, are we reading the secret instead of a scientific
26:36
literature, you know, driven empirical.
26:39
Oh, so I, I think there's a bit of that.
26:43
Well, I mean, you know, that's human nature, people, people
26:46
hate uncertainty and they hate change.
26:49
It's it's hard to say like, wow, the the universe is full of this
26:54
impossibly impossible to decipher complexity.
26:57
They just want to be like, no, dude, Jesus loves you, you're
27:00
going to heaven. Everything's fine like.
27:03
Oh stop. Oh my God, could you that cause
27:05
'cause the other thing is you have a buffet of contradictory
27:09
thoughts inside your smart brain and it doesn't make you happy,
27:13
does it? You know, you're like, well, I
27:14
do believe Dakar said this and also Christian and Hindu
27:17
mysticism and then also, I think, but some of the latest,
27:20
you know, aerospace engineering and you're like, you know what?
27:23
It's so much easier if you're just like, people are bad, you
27:29
know, and then you're like who, who, that doesn't matter.
27:32
And you're like perfect, Oh my God, no nuance.
27:35
People are so excited to not think and I just want people to
27:41
always remember that if anyone can jump at an opportunity to
27:46
not use their brain, they're going to do it.
27:48
And that's including me. I mean, I might be getting off
27:51
the bus real early with my thoughts here.
27:53
Be like, oh, I know things. I'm I've read books, brother, I
27:57
might be wrong, you know, so, but I'm, I'm the only person out
28:01
here saying I might be wrong. What?
28:06
Come join me. Get in the pool.
28:09
Dude, I can't. I'm trying to think of like what
28:13
was the expression but you know me.
28:15
Oh, and you know me what? And you know me, what's the
28:19
classic white guy expression equivalent?
28:22
What would what would it? Yes, this was a suburban white
28:25
guy. This was a sister.
28:27
Of. Course.
28:28
And I was like, oh, and now I know her.
28:33
Well, I got to be like I'm circle back on that.
28:38
But they're known for circling back.
28:40
It's just like. We don't even have to say
28:42
anything. It's just like, wouldn't be,
28:44
right? Exactly.
28:45
Like we, you already know us, you know, other people have to
28:49
declaim the fact that you know me, you know, other people are
28:52
like, oh, bro, we know your book.
28:54
But I, I would say, yeah, I've done enough interviews with
28:58
enough people. I would, I would say there's
29:03
there's interstitial things like I think, and you know, the truth
29:09
for me is, or here's what it comes down to, you know, those
29:12
kind of like those landing things, those might be ours.
29:16
Like here's what I think, you know, like it isn't, isn't, you
29:21
know me. It's get ready to hear, you
29:25
know, the next thing you're about to agree with.
29:29
But yeah, so. Oh my God, this is fantastic.
29:31
We need to do more of this. Can I, I'll give you this
29:33
ChatGPT. Will you play around with it?
29:36
100% yeah where? How can people find it?
29:38
Dude can if they search the GPTS and open AI can they find it?
29:43
It's it should be, but let me just make sure I put an official
29:48
link in the chat and then we, we can, if we can find that.
29:53
Yeah. But if you look up from sides to
29:56
synthesis, you should be able to find it.
29:59
But I'm, I'm going to work on this.
30:01
I want to create a private, you know, thing for me as a website.
30:05
And all I want is for people to come into it and break up their
30:08
binary thinking, Find the third alternative.
30:11
Think of the third thing. That's, that's what you need.
30:15
And so everyone's like, I'm going to use my third eye.
30:17
Oh, but what if it's closed and it has glaucoma and, and, and
30:21
somebody farted on your pillow and it's crusted shut?
30:25
Don't depend on that thing to open.
30:29
I love you, man. I got to bounce.
30:31
Let's we'll do it again in a month.
30:32
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