Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / DAY 73, BROOKE-HUBBY: "BLOOD EVERYWHERE" NO ARREST

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DAY 73, BROOKE-HUBBY: "BLOOD EVERYWHERE" NO ARREST · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace bombshell tonight, young mom Brooke
0:09
Speaker 1: Hanlon's husband says, there's blood everywhere. No arrest. What no arrest?
0:20
Speaker 1: A young mother stabbed dead on the second floor of
0:25
Speaker 1: her suburban home and we don't have an arrest? What
0:29
Speaker 1: is there a serial killer wandering around that suburban neighborhood.
0:35
Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
0:38
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.
0:47
Speaker 2: I just.
0:50
Speaker 3: CPR, CPR.
0:52
Speaker 4: Okay, she's not breathing her conscious.
0:55
Speaker 3: Oh my god, there's a last.
1:00
Speaker 4: Okay, sir, very through one moment.
1:03
Speaker 3: We're gonna go up there.
1:05
Speaker 4: Just stand the line of needs for information. Okay.
1:10
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I need you need your media, sir.
1:14
Speaker 4: She is bleeding and she's not okay, okay, Oh, oh
1:21
Speaker 4: my god, Oh my god.
1:26
Speaker 5: I'm curious about the fingernail scrapings. Was there signs of
1:29
Speaker 5: a struggle? Were their defense wounds on the on the victim?
1:32
Speaker 5: So a lot of value, a lot of evidentiary value
1:35
Speaker 5: coming out of this case.
1:37
Speaker 1: You're hearing a portion of that nine one one call.
1:39
Speaker 1: We have combed over it over and over and over.
1:42
Speaker 1: Every single word, including the tone of his voice when
1:48
Speaker 1: it goes up to a falsetto curious, what if anything
1:55
Speaker 1: does it mean? Maybe nothing? And you were also hearing
1:58
Speaker 1: retired Deputy chief at the Hartford PD, Brian Foley with
2:02
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox News. What does it mean? This
2:06
Speaker 1: is what it means. No arrest. Listen to this.
2:12
Speaker 6: But it's been two months since thirty five year old
2:15
Speaker 6: Brook Hamlin was killed in her Chester, New Jersey home,
2:18
Speaker 6: and there's still not been an arrest. There has been
2:20
Speaker 6: very little information released about this case, which I think
2:24
Speaker 6: has left a lot of people wondering. Does that mean
2:27
Speaker 6: that they have someone that they have their eye on
2:29
Speaker 6: and they're building a case, or does it mean the
2:31
Speaker 6: exact opposite and they have no clue who did this?
2:34
Speaker 1: That is take true crime psycho ed. Let's focus on
2:40
Speaker 1: what we know tonight. Straight out to Vanessa Walt joining us.
2:43
Speaker 1: She is the star of Unmasked true crime that shot
2:47
Speaker 1: to the forefront during the Lynette Hooker debacle, who, I
2:52
Speaker 1: might add, still has not been found, no charges, no arrest.
2:57
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Vanessa, maybe it's you because all of
3:01
Speaker 1: the cases you're investigating their dead wives and there's never
3:04
Speaker 1: an arrest, and there's never a resolution. We'll focus on
3:08
Speaker 1: that later. But Vanessa, where has the husband been? No suspects,
3:13
Speaker 1: no person of interest named. As of tonight, it's reported
3:17
Speaker 1: that after the murder that he did go to Massachusetts,
3:20
Speaker 1: where his parents are, for a while.
3:22
Speaker 7: He did come back in mid July. He is reportedly
3:27
Speaker 7: back in Chester, New Jersey. Now, however, their one year
3:30
Speaker 7: old daughter, Avery is reportedly still staying with Brooks parents.
3:35
Speaker 1: To Mark Astor joining us high profile lawyer out of
3:39
Speaker 1: Boca Raton, Florida. He founded the Astor Simovich Law Group
3:45
Speaker 1: and he is a star of the journey by Mark Astor. Astor,
3:52
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us tonight. In this case,
3:56
Speaker 1: of course, the husband has not been named, has not
4:01
Speaker 1: been named a person of interest.
4:03
Speaker 8: Well, I appreciate what you're saying, Nancy, but it's not
4:06
Speaker 8: like he got on a plane and flew to Europe
4:08
Speaker 8: or somewhere else where where there's no jurisdiction over him.
4:11
Speaker 8: I mean, he went to his parents. So what are
4:13
Speaker 8: we going to read into that and say, well, he
4:15
Speaker 8: must be guilty because he went to mommy and daddy's house.
4:18
Speaker 8: I don't think that's any evidence, frankly, of anything. In fact,
4:22
Speaker 8: as you pointed out, it's been seventy plus days since
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Speaker 8: this occurred. If law enforcement had probable cause to arrest him,
4:29
Speaker 8: they would have done it, or they would have gone
4:31
Speaker 8: to a judge and said, your honor, he is an
4:33
Speaker 8: application for an arrest warrant. Please sign off on this
4:36
Speaker 8: so we can go and arrest this person. So that
4:39
Speaker 8: hasn't happened. So the fact that he went to his parents,
4:41
Speaker 8: I don't read anything into that at all. And he
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Speaker 8: came back, So what what does that tell us? That's
4:47
Speaker 8: not evidence. We're lawyer's former prosecutors. We rely on evidence.
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Speaker 8: I don't see that as evidence of anything.
4:53
Speaker 1: Oh wow, you really letting me have it. Of course,
4:57
Speaker 1: it's not evidence probative in court.
4:59
Speaker 7: You know what.
4:59
Speaker 1: I'm not a shre to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us
5:03
Speaker 1: renowned psychoalyst out of the LA jurisdiction. She is the
5:07
Speaker 1: author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Hulu,
5:11
Speaker 1: on Peacock, on Netflix, and she's a star of a
5:14
Speaker 1: Hitting You podcast on the Couch with doctor Bethany Marshall.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, of course, it's not probative that he did anything,
5:23
Speaker 1: but I think it tells me something about his priorities.
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Speaker 1: Leaving your wife's only child, who has gone through her
5:36
Speaker 1: own trauma, what did you hear? What did you see?
5:38
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's poby all locked up here
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Speaker 1: in that child's head, But leaving her and going to
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Speaker 1: mommy and daddy's house while your daughter is alone with
5:49
Speaker 1: the grandparents, no mom and no dad. That tells me something.
5:53
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what, Nancy.
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Speaker 9: It may not be hard evidence, but it's behavioral evidence,
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Speaker 9: which tells us a lot. And in many cases, it's
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Speaker 9: not what we see, it's what we don't see.
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Speaker 1: Man, I could analyze that none on one call all
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Speaker 1: day long. I'm also curious about what former Deputy Chief
6:15
Speaker 1: of Hartford PD, Brian Foley said about fingernail scrapings. Back
6:21
Speaker 1: to Vanessa Walsh joining a start of Unmasked True Crime,
6:25
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the discoveries made at
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Speaker 1: the scene. What do we know about any potential forensics?
6:33
Speaker 7: What we do know is when first responders did arrive,
6:37
Speaker 7: they immediately within two minutes, knew that the scene looks
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Speaker 7: suspicious and at four forty two, so just thirteen minutes
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Speaker 7: after Connor's nine one one call, they had deemed Brokes
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Speaker 7: death as suspicious and called in the Major Crimes Unit.
6:51
Speaker 4: All right, the parados have been said to stay on
6:53
Speaker 4: the line. Yeah yeah, what if there's a defibulator available?
6:59
Speaker 4: Sense and to get in now and tell me when
7:01
Speaker 4: you have it, sir.
7:01
Speaker 3: No, I don't have one.
7:02
Speaker 4: I don't not available. Okay, I don't know what to do.
7:05
Speaker 4: I don't know what Okay. Please put your phone off
7:08
Speaker 4: speaker so your hands are free to helpers on speaker.
7:10
Speaker 3: On speaker, I did not moment no, please one moment no.
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Speaker 4: Listen carefully and I'll tell you how to do chest compression. Sir.
7:19
Speaker 4: Place the keel of your hand on the breastbone in
7:21
Speaker 4: the center of the chest, right between the.
7:25
Speaker 3: Cut.
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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, what was that, sir?
7:29
Speaker 3: There's blood everywhere.
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Speaker 4: We're gonna do this six hundred times or until help
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Speaker 4: can take over. Okay, count out loud so I can
7:37
Speaker 4: count with you. Okay. But one one two three four,
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Speaker 4: one two three four one two three one two three
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Speaker 4: four one two three four one two three four keep
7:56
Speaker 4: keep going so you're doing great. We're gonna do this
7:58
Speaker 4: six hundred times or until help can take over, or okay,
8:02
Speaker 4: two three four one two three four help us on
8:07
Speaker 4: the water. Keep going, I need you try and take
8:10
Speaker 4: a deep breather, sir, three four one, number one.
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Speaker 3: Four.
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Speaker 4: Where are you in the house?
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Speaker 3: Second floor?
8:20
Speaker 4: Second floor? Okay, okay, keep going one two three four.
8:26
Speaker 1: And speaking of the second floor, I'm not the only
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Speaker 1: one who noticed this clue.
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Speaker 10: Here are three interesting facts regarding the Brooke Handling case
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Speaker 10: that a lot of people are not considering. Number One,
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Speaker 10: this happened in broad daylight on the second floor of
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Speaker 10: her home. Guys, she didn't live on a busy road.
8:48
Speaker 10: She lived like in the woods. You got to take
8:50
Speaker 10: a long driveway and a long path to get to
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Speaker 10: her house. So someone doing that has to know exactly
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Speaker 10: where she lives and know where that path would lead to.
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Speaker 10: And then up on the second floor in broad daylay.
9:01
Speaker 10: That either means she was being chased and she's succumbed
9:04
Speaker 10: to the injuries up there, or someone knew exactly where
9:06
Speaker 10: to find her. So that's just number one, broad daylay
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Speaker 10: and on the second floor.
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Speaker 1: That from at Laugh and Grind official TikTok he noticed
9:15
Speaker 1: it straight out to Lisa J. Miller, former detective, former
9:19
Speaker 1: chief investigator, senior executive Colorado AG's office. Lisa, thank you,
9:25
Speaker 1: for being with us. Let's address his observation that she
9:31
Speaker 1: was tucked away up on the second floor, which means
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Speaker 1: an intruder would have to come in, no fourth entry,
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Speaker 1: not setting off a burglar alarm, make their way up
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Speaker 1: to the second floor and find her. There's no sex attack,
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Speaker 1: there's no robbery, there's no burglary. Find her and murder
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Speaker 1: her and get out before the husband could get back
9:53
Speaker 1: from buying an auto part. What does that say? What
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Speaker 1: inference can we draw from that? What if anything doesn't
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Speaker 1: prove you're seeing the home? From our friends at Fox
10:06
Speaker 1: News hit it, Lisa, Well, we.
10:09
Speaker 11: Can't make a lot of inferences here because there's a
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Speaker 11: lot of facts. We don't know her being located in
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Speaker 11: the bedroom. What would make me wonder and start asking questions?
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Speaker 11: And I'm sure investigators are doing all these things. The
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Speaker 11: sad part of this is right now is those of
10:26
Speaker 11: us out here in the public sphere, we just don't
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Speaker 11: have a lot to go on. We can speculate about
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Speaker 11: a lot of things here, but we just don't have
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Speaker 11: a whole lot of things to look at and judge
10:40
Speaker 11: from facts because we're not getting facts.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace straight out to Dave Mac
10:55
Speaker 1: joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave Matt, it was
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Speaker 1: my understanding that there was no forced entry. No burglar
11:03
Speaker 1: alarm went off. Nine on one was called. I mean
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Speaker 1: two plus two still legals four, doesn't it, Jackie, Yeah, okay,
11:11
Speaker 1: it does. Nothing changed overnight he called nine one one,
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Speaker 1: No burglar alarm was activated. Nothing was tripped to call
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Speaker 1: investigators or police to the scene. So no burglar alarm
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Speaker 1: went off. We understand there was no forced entry, and
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Speaker 1: the autopsy is done. Nothing was stated about a sex attack. Also,
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Speaker 1: from what we are learning, there was no struggle in
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Speaker 1: the foyer or the entrance. Let's see the picture or
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Speaker 1: the video of the home again where you come in
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Speaker 1: the front door. Nothing seemingly was a miss there. As
11:54
Speaker 1: you see, the glass is not busted, there's no pride
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Speaker 1: marks on the door. We don't have fingerprint dust, the
12:02
Speaker 1: dark fingerprint powder all over the door, the handle to
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Speaker 1: find out who came in because there was no forced entry,
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Speaker 1: Dave Mac, that's what.
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Speaker 12: We have right now. And see, when we first started
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Speaker 12: covering this, Nancy, I was looking at the entry, you know,
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Speaker 12: because I thought if it was an attack from somebody
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Speaker 12: she didn't know then maybe she was fleeing upstairs because
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Speaker 12: she was found upstairs in the master bedroom. But Nancy,
12:29
Speaker 12: when you get down to this, you've got blood just
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Speaker 12: up in the master bedroom. We're not told of it
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Speaker 12: being anywhere else. And as you mentioned, there's no sign
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Speaker 12: of any kind of a scuffle happening in the entryway.
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Speaker 12: So we're just up on the second floor of a
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Speaker 12: house that's not like sitting side by side with other homes.
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Speaker 12: You had to know where it is. And again, nothing
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Speaker 12: stolen either. It isn't a robbery gone wrong. This is
12:55
Speaker 12: actually he'd say, but targeted. It had to be, And
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Speaker 12: we've got Connor Handlon, which we still don't know exactly
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Speaker 12: when he left to go to the auto party store.
13:06
Speaker 12: We don't know exactly when he returned. We just know
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Speaker 12: that he called nine one one at four twenty nine.
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Speaker 1: Let me see that aerial view you were just showing me.
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Speaker 1: It's a heavily wooded area and as we were hearing earlier,
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Speaker 1: there are trails leading to this home through the woods.
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Speaker 1: You kind of have to you kind of have to
13:29
Speaker 1: know where you're going to find it. Let's see the
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Speaker 1: overhead view. There you go see her home in the
13:38
Speaker 1: midst of all of those trees. Who would have the
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Speaker 1: motive to go through those trees to get to Brook
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Speaker 1: Hanlon up in her room on the second floor of
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Speaker 1: the home and kill her, Dave mac isn't it true
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Speaker 1: that there is a room in the basement. I wonder
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Speaker 1: if there's an entry there that is the same level
14:00
Speaker 1: as the garage in the home. Dave, let's take a
14:03
Speaker 1: look at that picture again of the home.
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Speaker 12: Wow, that's amazing. You're right, there is a possible entry
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Speaker 12: into that basement that somebody who again you mentioned the pathways, Nancy,
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Speaker 12: whoever did this knew where they were going and knew
14:23
Speaker 12: what they were getting into. So yeah, they could have
14:25
Speaker 12: gotten inwn from the basement and gone up as maybe
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Speaker 12: they were lying in wait until Connor left.
14:35
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief Medical Examiner Terrance County.
14:39
Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth and he's the star of Mayhem and
14:41
Speaker 1: the Morgue, a hit podcast. Also, he is the esteemed
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Speaker 1: lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. He
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Speaker 1: has performed literally thousands of autopsies. What is your analysis
14:54
Speaker 1: of the wound to Brook Hanlon?
15:00
Speaker 2: So the information we have at the present time is
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Speaker 2: the husband stating that it's a laceration on the chest.
15:06
Speaker 2: Now people call lacerations are actually lacerations are caused by
15:11
Speaker 2: blunt force trauma, but people often confuse them with stab
15:14
Speaker 2: wounds or in size wounds, which is caused by sharp
15:17
Speaker 2: force trauma, which is what her cause of death was made.
15:21
Speaker 2: So if she has a laceration on her chest, it's
15:25
Speaker 2: probably a stab wound that he misinterpreted as a laceration
15:30
Speaker 2: from a knife being plunged into her chest at about
15:34
Speaker 2: heart level and going through her heart or lungs and
15:37
Speaker 2: then she bled out.
15:39
Speaker 1: I'm curious if there were multiple stab wounds or one
15:43
Speaker 1: stab wound. Doctor Kendall Crowns, can you describe what a
15:49
Speaker 1: medical examiner would see if there were overlapping stab wounds
15:54
Speaker 1: that seem that appear to be one stab wound? How
15:57
Speaker 1: does that happen?
16:00
Speaker 2: So you can have in a stab wound situations where
16:03
Speaker 2: the individual stabs the person and then pulls the knife down,
16:08
Speaker 2: creating a bigger, gaping wound. You can also have where
16:11
Speaker 2: they stab into the individual and then don't pull the
16:14
Speaker 2: knife all the way out and stab again, so you
16:17
Speaker 2: get two separate wound tracks from one knife wound. Then,
16:20
Speaker 2: of course, when you have clusters of stab wounds where
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Speaker 2: they're stabbing over and over and over into the same
16:27
Speaker 2: kind of tight circle area, you get multiple stabs in
16:30
Speaker 2: a specific spot, and then all those wound tracks kind
16:35
Speaker 2: of go together and aggregate, basically ripping apart whatever is
16:39
Speaker 2: underneath them. And you see these a lot in especially
16:42
Speaker 2: when someone's incredibly angry at the individual that they're stabbing,
16:46
Speaker 2: and it's a term that we call overkill where they
16:50
Speaker 2: just continue to stab even though they've gone past the
16:53
Speaker 2: point of where that stab wound would have killed them,
16:56
Speaker 2: and they keep stabbing and stabbing and stabbing over and over.
17:00
Speaker 2: You see this in domestic cases or intimate partner violence,
17:03
Speaker 2: and you also see it in situations like with Brian
17:06
Speaker 2: Kolberger where he just kept stabbing those individuals.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, I look back at my notes and they
17:14
Speaker 1: say that there were multiple stab wounds in the chest
17:18
Speaker 1: and body, chest and body. Now, it seems to me
17:26
Speaker 1: if the purpose coming into maybe they saw the husband
17:30
Speaker 1: leaving to go get the auto parts and thought, oh,
17:33
Speaker 1: nobody's home. I'll go in and what take the TV
17:36
Speaker 1: or the VCR? They go in they see her. Now
17:40
Speaker 1: this is anecdotal, doctor Crowns, but in my experience, when
17:45
Speaker 1: a burglar breaks in, they see a person, they leave,
17:49
Speaker 1: they run and pray to God they don't get identified.
17:53
Speaker 1: It's very rare when a burglar, a true burglar comes
17:57
Speaker 1: in and stabs the victim and they are found. So
18:01
Speaker 1: they coming in to burgle, finding a victim at home
18:06
Speaker 1: and then taking time to kill them much less multiple
18:10
Speaker 1: stab wounds all over the body and chest. I want
18:14
Speaker 1: to hear what you make of it, and we're most
18:16
Speaker 1: likely the stab wounds are to her body.
18:23
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, again, you've shown pictures of the house. It's
18:26
Speaker 2: out in the middle of nowhere in the woods. It'd
18:28
Speaker 2: be odd for someone to be sitting out there watching
18:30
Speaker 2: and waiting for that moment to break in and steal things.
18:34
Speaker 2: I would think people would notice some unusual car out
18:37
Speaker 2: there sitting around, they pick up on it and spot it.
18:41
Speaker 2: So it's a very odd situation. You're correct. Often with
18:45
Speaker 2: burglary they don't kill the individual. If they are a
18:47
Speaker 2: person's in the house, they just get out of there
18:50
Speaker 2: and run because they don't want to go to prison.
18:52
Speaker 2: But of course occasionally they do stay and kill people.
18:56
Speaker 2: But it's the use of a knife is odd to
18:58
Speaker 2: me because most of the burglars go in, they have
19:01
Speaker 2: their cheap gun or they'll beat you to death with
19:04
Speaker 2: something that's at hand, but they don't use a knife. Now,
19:07
Speaker 2: as far as stab wounds all over the body, the
19:10
Speaker 2: thing about a stab wound is you can't kill a
19:12
Speaker 2: person instantaneously with a stab wound. You don't have that
19:16
Speaker 2: kinetic energy like you have with a bullet, so the
19:19
Speaker 2: person will continue to run around and try and fight back.
19:23
Speaker 2: So you'll get injuries to the hands and arms, which
19:26
Speaker 2: you are defensive wounds. Then you'll get multiple stabs at
19:29
Speaker 2: different locations of the body as the person's moving and
19:32
Speaker 2: then eventually dying. So you probably have multiple wounds to
19:36
Speaker 2: the chest, hitting lungs and heart, wounds to the abdomen,
19:40
Speaker 2: hitting the liver and the intestines. It's just difficult to
19:43
Speaker 2: say how many and where they're at what exactly got hit.
19:47
Speaker 2: But all we do know is there's sharp horse injuries
19:50
Speaker 2: and she's dead.
19:52
Speaker 1: I would agree with you, doctor, because if she was
19:55
Speaker 1: stabbed in the chest, it makes more sense for the
19:58
Speaker 1: other bodily stab to be on the front of the body.
20:01
Speaker 1: Such as the arms, the abdomen joining us now Carl Defasio,
20:08
Speaker 1: former NYPD detective pi at Carl Defasio private investigations in
20:15
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Carl, thank you for being with us. I'm
20:20
Speaker 1: curious about why this has been kept under wraps. You know,
20:23
Speaker 1: they went three weeks without even releasing Brooke's name. I've
20:29
Speaker 1: never heard of that. Nothing, not a zilch zero, What
20:33
Speaker 1: the hey?
20:34
Speaker 13: Yeah, Nancy, I agree with the doctor you had on
20:36
Speaker 13: previously about the conditions of the stab wounds and all that,
20:39
Speaker 13: But I'm looking at this from a different perspective. Why
20:43
Speaker 13: is this any different? Why is it being handled anything
20:47
Speaker 13: different than another homicide that happens and unfortunately in this
20:51
Speaker 13: country quite often. Why are we investigating this differently?
20:55
Speaker 6: What are we missing?
20:57
Speaker 11: Right?
20:57
Speaker 13: Why an't the police doing this basically the way they
20:59
Speaker 13: do in every other celebrity or non celebrity murder.
21:03
Speaker 3: Right?
21:04
Speaker 13: What's going on? Right to your point? Why is it
21:06
Speaker 13: three weeks? Why did it take so lung to invest
21:09
Speaker 13: to interview the neighbors? What about the crime scene? Was
21:12
Speaker 13: there a weapon found? Was it a household weapon? It's
21:17
Speaker 13: a big difference between lacerations and stab wounds, and it's unfortunately,
21:22
Speaker 13: Well fortunately, I guess it's not easy to kill yourself
21:25
Speaker 13: or kill someone unless you're in a fit of rage
21:28
Speaker 13: or or professionally you know what you're doing. So I
21:31
Speaker 13: don't think it's a burgley. Is there any signs of burgley?
21:34
Speaker 13: Is there any signs of break in? That's the point
21:37
Speaker 13: where I'm getting to, why is it not out there
21:39
Speaker 13: that this isn't a break in? No signs of break in,
21:42
Speaker 13: no signs of this. They're not giving us anything, So
21:45
Speaker 13: that tells me they're holding something back. Now. Is it
21:49
Speaker 13: something that the family agreed upon they don't want out there?
21:52
Speaker 13: These are all speculations. On my point is on my behalf.
21:55
Speaker 13: Is it something that they don't want out there for
21:58
Speaker 13: the sake of, you know, embarrassing the family or whatever.
22:02
Speaker 13: The husband's not a person of interest or suspect nothing.
22:06
Speaker 3: Why is this any.
22:07
Speaker 13: Different than anything else. We're missing something and they know
22:10
Speaker 13: what that something is. That meme's report will speak volumes.
22:14
Speaker 13: That's that that's key to me. That is it lacerations?
22:18
Speaker 13: Was an a order punctured? Whether were there any defensive wounds?
22:23
Speaker 13: Like your previous caller said, I don't know, you know,
22:26
Speaker 13: these are things that that's report. What actually was the
22:28
Speaker 13: cause of death? Did she believe the death or did
22:32
Speaker 13: she puncture her carotid artery with the knife or did
22:35
Speaker 13: someone puncture it? You know who benefits by this girl's death?
22:39
Speaker 3: I would check everything.
22:40
Speaker 13: That's what a basic investigator does. Who's on the will,
22:43
Speaker 13: who's on the insurance, who's the last person to talk
22:46
Speaker 13: to her, who's in the house.
22:47
Speaker 1: Carl Defasia, former NYPD detective pi at Carl Defasio private
22:53
Speaker 1: investigations in New Jersey joining us tonight, doctor Bethany in
22:57
Speaker 1: a home that is surrounded by DNTs woods. I want
23:02
Speaker 1: to talk to you about the attack on her body.
23:05
Speaker 1: What does that mean when a woman victim is stabbed
23:09
Speaker 1: across her body, potentially the face, the breast, I don't
23:13
Speaker 1: know where else.
23:15
Speaker 9: Well, it's up close and personal, all right, it's usually
23:19
Speaker 9: rage or overkill. If it was a serial killer, let's
23:23
Speaker 9: just go without for a second, somebody who emerged from
23:26
Speaker 9: the woods one of those five trails that led to
23:29
Speaker 9: a meeting point behind her house, the type of killing
23:33
Speaker 9: would be very different, usually strangulation than dismemberment.
23:37
Speaker 1: Of the face.
23:38
Speaker 9: Okay, And there would have been similar incidents in nearby
23:42
Speaker 9: communities or states. Let's say the overkill is from meth,
23:46
Speaker 9: that's one of the things we frequently see and somebody
23:48
Speaker 9: wandered in. If that was the case, that person would
23:52
Speaker 9: still be in the vicinity, disorganized, easily found. What I
23:57
Speaker 9: see with this is a hazard attempt to kill somebody
24:03
Speaker 9: without much knowledge of what it takes to kill somebody.
24:10
Speaker 1: To former detective, former chief investigator, senior executive called OUDO
24:14
Speaker 1: AG's office Lisa Miller with us tonight, Lisa, I'd like
24:18
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on the husband's alibi.
24:22
Speaker 11: You know, on the face of this, with the reporting
24:24
Speaker 11: that he was headed off to a store, we have
24:28
Speaker 11: to look at this. That's it's really strange to think
24:33
Speaker 11: that in a county where there's not much violent crime
24:38
Speaker 11: at all, and even less in this particular township. This
24:42
Speaker 11: particular township does not have in home stabbing murders. So
24:48
Speaker 11: that is a problem. But right now we do not
24:52
Speaker 11: know how this investigations of being handled. It may be
24:58
Speaker 11: being handled very very well. You know, I'm from the
25:02
Speaker 11: school of slow and methodical. As I said earlier, we
25:07
Speaker 11: don't have law enforcement throwing facts out. So there's many
25:11
Speaker 11: many things that we don't know. We're gleaning things from reporting,
25:15
Speaker 11: we're gleaning some things from social media, but we can't
25:19
Speaker 11: rule out as good detectives that this could have been
25:22
Speaker 11: a targeted attack towards her from someone that she had
25:27
Speaker 11: worked with. Keep in mind she was a therapist. In
25:31
Speaker 11: taking a look at who may have targeted her talking
25:35
Speaker 11: about slow and methodical, the privilege of her clients did
25:40
Speaker 11: not die with her. They still have privilege. So the
25:43
Speaker 11: investigators as they are going about their business, they can
25:48
Speaker 11: get some administrative records, like maybe some cader information, they
25:53
Speaker 11: can get some client information, but if they are finding
25:57
Speaker 11: or hearing through their investigation that they're is a client
26:01
Speaker 11: that had boundary issues with her where she had talked
26:04
Speaker 11: to them. To get to her therapist notes in those records,
26:09
Speaker 11: they have to go through a judge. They're going to
26:11
Speaker 11: have to present pretty pretty relevant, tight facts, and even
26:16
Speaker 11: with that, a special master is going to have to
26:18
Speaker 11: go through these records to see what law enforcement can
26:22
Speaker 11: gain access to. It's a prudent investigation for law enforcement
26:28
Speaker 11: for these detectives come through and not only investigate this husband,
26:33
Speaker 11: because we all know the statistics of that, but we
26:36
Speaker 11: also have to look at alternate suspects and rule those out.
26:40
Speaker 11: Otherwise that detective and the prosecutor are going to get
26:44
Speaker 11: creamed if this ever goes to trial.
26:46
Speaker 10: Number two, Why did Chester, New Jersey officials wait three
26:50
Speaker 10: weeks to release the name of the victim being Brooke Handlin.
26:53
Speaker 10: It does make some logical and strategic sense because if
26:56
Speaker 10: you're in a small town where crimes like this typically
26:59
Speaker 10: do not happen, it can cause chaos, It can cause
27:02
Speaker 10: people to freak out. I can understand it. About three
27:04
Speaker 10: weeks there's people finding out about this case now that
27:08
Speaker 10: live in New Jersey. Last, but not least, the nine
27:11
Speaker 10: to one one call recording. This nine one one call
27:14
Speaker 10: was made by Connor, the husband. Now, originally when he
27:17
Speaker 10: got there he said, I don't think she's breathing. I
27:19
Speaker 10: need instructions on CPR. When he said that, the automatic
27:23
Speaker 10: detail recorder that most dispatchers have nowadays, so when you're
27:26
Speaker 10: on the phone and they're spitting out information, they take
27:28
Speaker 10: notes automatically while you're trying to speak to the person
27:31
Speaker 10: on the phone. According to this automatic detail recorder and reporter,
27:36
Speaker 10: they looked at it as a cardiac arrest because he
27:38
Speaker 10: said she wasn't breathing, so they said cardiac arrest as
27:42
Speaker 10: they continued to talk, and then Connor realized there was
27:45
Speaker 10: multiple sharp force wounds to her body. It then turned
27:48
Speaker 10: to a possible suspicious do you know what if that
27:51
Speaker 10: makes sense?
27:58
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Gray straight up to Mark Astor
28:05
Speaker 1: joining us. He's a renowned criminal defense turning out of
28:08
Speaker 1: the Beaugrauton's jurisdiction and founded the Astrosimovitch Law firm. Mark,
28:13
Speaker 1: thanks again for being with us tonight. I want you
28:16
Speaker 1: have handled Oh, by the way, that's from at Laughing
28:18
Speaker 1: Grind official on TikTok. I'd like to hear your analysis
28:22
Speaker 1: and believe me, yes, statistically, we look at the husband
28:26
Speaker 1: first and look at the wife first when the husband
28:28
Speaker 1: is killed, but we can't close all avenues of investigation.
28:34
Speaker 1: I mean, look at Brian Coburger, who would have thought
28:39
Speaker 1: a seemingly unrelated PhD student at a different university was
28:45
Speaker 1: responsible for four brutal murders if cops had honed in
28:51
Speaker 1: on boyfriends ex boyfriends, girlfriends ex girlfriends.
28:55
Speaker 4: That.
28:57
Speaker 1: We may not know the truth today so we can
29:00
Speaker 1: close avenues of investigation. I want to hear your thoughts
29:04
Speaker 1: on that.
29:06
Speaker 13: Well.
29:06
Speaker 8: I agree with you, Nancy. I mean, there's a whole
29:08
Speaker 8: lot of speculation here.
29:10
Speaker 11: You know.
29:11
Speaker 8: We hear the nine one one tape, and to me,
29:13
Speaker 8: he sounds like a panicked husband. And the first thing
29:15
Speaker 8: he says is I found my wife. When the paramedics
29:18
Speaker 8: get there, he repeats that statement, I found her. Now,
29:22
Speaker 8: either he's very conniving and he's, you know, creating his
29:25
Speaker 8: own defense, or he really did just find her. Now,
29:29
Speaker 8: the idea that this was not a burglary gone wrong
29:32
Speaker 8: because there's no sign of fourth century I respectfully disagree
29:34
Speaker 8: with that. How do we know that this was not
29:36
Speaker 8: just a crime of opportunity and she was in the
29:38
Speaker 8: wrong place at the wrong time and a struggle broke out.
29:42
Speaker 8: How do we know it's that it was actually a knife.
29:44
Speaker 8: I agree she was stabbed. Do we know that it
29:46
Speaker 8: was a knife? Do we know that maybe there was
29:48
Speaker 8: a pair of scissors and a fight broke out and
29:50
Speaker 8: she was stabbed with something else other than a knife.
29:52
Speaker 8: I don't think we know that yet. Now, if there
29:55
Speaker 8: was a struggle, I would have to presume, like in
29:57
Speaker 8: the Coboger case, there was some DNA evidence. It seems
30:01
Speaker 8: like this has taken a little bit of time to
30:03
Speaker 8: get that DNA evidence, which hopefully would reveal who she
30:06
Speaker 8: potentially had to struggle with. And if it was really
30:09
Speaker 8: the husband, if it was really Connor, don't we think
30:12
Speaker 8: he would have would have been arrested by now if
30:14
Speaker 8: they had his DNA under her fingernails. So there's a
30:17
Speaker 8: lot of unanswered questions here. I mean, he said he
30:20
Speaker 8: went to get get parts for the car, or he
30:21
Speaker 8: was working on his car, so what Maybe he went
30:25
Speaker 8: to get a windshield wiper blade, or maybe he went
30:27
Speaker 8: to get some oil or some anti freeze. We don't know.
30:30
Speaker 8: Just because he said he was working on his car
30:32
Speaker 8: doesn't mean to say that that's not an alibi. And again,
30:35
Speaker 8: as I think that the investigator said, there's going to
30:37
Speaker 8: be a timeline here, we'll be able to verify that
30:39
Speaker 8: if he went to an autopart store, did they see him,
30:42
Speaker 8: do they have him on camera? Most of these places
30:44
Speaker 8: have video surveillance, so we can verify a lot of this.
30:47
Speaker 8: But there's a lot of speculation going on here, especially
30:50
Speaker 8: amongst the TikTok community, who seemed to think, you know, well,
30:53
Speaker 8: this happened in broad daylight, why didn't we see it?
30:55
Speaker 8: It did not happen in broad daylight. It happened in
30:58
Speaker 8: the privacy of somebody's home. So it's not like we
31:01
Speaker 8: can expect there to be a lot of witnesses to this. Now,
31:04
Speaker 8: if the husband had actually conspired with another individual and basically,
31:09
Speaker 8: you know, this was a murder for hire, then I
31:11
Speaker 8: would imagine law enforcement is looking for that individual or individuals.
31:15
Speaker 8: And if this was targeted, Okay, we're now looking at
31:17
Speaker 8: a different scenario. And maybe the husband is a co conspirator.
31:21
Speaker 8: Right he's solicited somebody, he's a principal, But right now
31:24
Speaker 8: we have zero evidence of that. And so, well, I
31:27
Speaker 8: get it. It's easy to say, well, it's the husband,
31:29
Speaker 8: It's always the husband, and maybe it is. Right now,
31:32
Speaker 8: we don't have any solid evidence to confirm that that
31:36
Speaker 8: is the case. We just simply don't. So I think
31:38
Speaker 8: we have to be very open minded about this.
31:40
Speaker 1: Dancy to Vanessa Walls, star of Unmatched True Crime, Vanessa
31:47
Speaker 1: Lisa Miller brought up a really good point that she
31:50
Speaker 1: is a psychotherapist much like doctor Bethany, and she deals
31:54
Speaker 1: with mentally ill and emotionally disturb people all day. So
32:02
Speaker 1: one of the things police may be doing is investigating
32:06
Speaker 1: many of her, let me say, clients with violent tendencies.
32:12
Speaker 1: Maybe one of them is preoccupied with her, maybe one
32:14
Speaker 1: of them is angry with her. That would take a
32:17
Speaker 1: lot of time, right.
32:20
Speaker 7: Absolutely, Nancy. And although that is a possibility and something
32:25
Speaker 7: that investigators are definitely looking into, from what we've heard
32:28
Speaker 7: from friends and family, Brooke was a very kind, loving person.
32:32
Speaker 7: They weren't aware of any person in her past. I mean,
32:35
Speaker 7: obviously they wouldn't know about her clients, but they weren't
32:38
Speaker 7: aware of any person in her past that she had
32:40
Speaker 7: problems with or that would wish her harm. I do
32:44
Speaker 7: think one of the most interesting things about this case
32:46
Speaker 7: isn't just what police aren't saying, it's what they aren't doing.
32:50
Speaker 7: We are not seeing a lot of public press conferences
32:52
Speaker 7: where they're telling residents to lock their doors, be hyper vigilant,
32:56
Speaker 7: you'll report anything you see to the police. Nothing like
32:59
Speaker 7: that notice of suspicious people or vehicles. So police behavior
33:04
Speaker 7: doesn't really seem to indicate that they feel that there's
33:07
Speaker 7: some knife wielding maniac running around Chester, New Jersey.
33:12
Speaker 1: Curious to Dr Bethany Marshall, you are a very famous psychoanalyst,
33:21
Speaker 1: and you don't always know what your client's issue is
33:24
Speaker 1: when they walk in the door. Have you ever had
33:27
Speaker 1: a client become obsessed with you or actually become afraid
33:32
Speaker 1: of a client or in fear for your safety.
33:36
Speaker 9: Several times? And it's compounded by the fact that not
33:40
Speaker 9: only do they come into my office, but they see
33:43
Speaker 9: me on television, so that just entrenches the obsession. One
33:47
Speaker 9: actually called my licensing board and said, I can't remember
33:52
Speaker 9: what something like doctor Marshall won't return my calls. Well,
33:55
Speaker 9: the fact is she called me one hundred times in
33:57
Speaker 9: one day. You know what I would say about this
34:01
Speaker 9: case is my experiences of feeling stoked were shared with
34:07
Speaker 9: my spouse and my friends, my neighborhood because we always
34:12
Speaker 9: have to be careful about somebody coming to our door.
34:14
Speaker 9: My husband's a judge, so they have to take special
34:18
Speaker 9: precautions as well. So did she tell anyone in her
34:22
Speaker 9: close circle that she felt compromised or endangered? Yeah, hippa
34:27
Speaker 9: is a thing in confidentiality is the same thing, but
34:30
Speaker 9: that does go out the window when you feel you
34:32
Speaker 9: are endangered. And the other thing is we are not
34:36
Speaker 9: required to treat patients who compromise our ability to provide
34:41
Speaker 9: good care, meaning that they make us feel scared or unsafe.
34:47
Speaker 9: She does telehealth right, she's working out of her house.
34:51
Speaker 9: If it was an unstable patient, they would know exactly
34:55
Speaker 9: where she is, but that only her husband would know
34:59
Speaker 9: if she threatened. And one small thing too. Those cars
35:03
Speaker 9: seem relatively new.
35:04
Speaker 1: And I don't know about you.
35:06
Speaker 9: I remember my dad and brother working on our cars
35:08
Speaker 9: and going to the automobile shop. And it was a
35:11
Speaker 9: thing back in the eighties and the nineties until there
35:14
Speaker 9: were computers installed in our cars. And it's not so
35:17
Speaker 9: easy anymore. What was he working on? Does he have
35:20
Speaker 9: a history of working on the car? Had they ever
35:22
Speaker 9: seen him before in that auto shop? Was he really
35:25
Speaker 9: purchasing something that would be appropriate, like a part that
35:31
Speaker 9: would be appropriate for a more modern day car. There's
35:34
Speaker 9: a lot of There's a lot to analyze there, as
35:36
Speaker 9: there is with so many parts of this case.
35:41
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
35:45
Speaker 1: murder of Brooke Hanlon, please dial nine seven three two
35:50
Speaker 1: six seven two two five five. We remember an American
35:54
Speaker 1: hero officer Eric Lee Chicago PD thirty seven, shot and
36:00
Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his grieving wife,
36:04
Speaker 1: Sean and a little daughter Erica American Hero Officer Eric Lee,
36:11
Speaker 1: and tonight we honor canine Ozzy, Connecticut Department Corrections. Ozzy
36:16
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36:39
Speaker 1: to save ours. Plus they donate narkian and first aid kits.
36:47
Speaker 1: Thank you, Vested Interests. I want to thank all of
36:51
Speaker 1: our guests, but especially you for being with us tonight
36:54
Speaker 1: and every night. Nancy Gray signing off, I'll see you
36:57
Speaker 1: tomorrow night and until then, mont Strodected profusi