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The Struggle Within: Ready To Leave Hell With HAYDEN McGOOGAN · HEAVY Music Interviews

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi.
• 0:00
  Speaker 2: My name is Hayden. I'm a singer songwriter from Sydney Beautiful.
• 0:05
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Listen. Your latest single, Relapse is
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: stripped back but really powerful at the same time. What
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: headspace were you in when you wrote it? Um?
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I was in a dark but optimistic headspace, So I
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: wrote that.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: When I was writing it.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I had been sober, freshly clean and sober for I
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: think thirty thirty or forty days. So I was doing
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I was doing good, but doing good can be scary
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: sometimes because you worried it's going to end. Yeah, So
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: that's the kind of head that's kind of what that
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: song was about. It was like, I'm doing really well
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: and everything's going great, but what if what if this
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: stops doing so well?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: What if you Definitely was it kind of cathartic for
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: you to.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Write this song, Yeah, it was. It was something I
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: needed to.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Address for myself that like, when you get clean and sober,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: like you are still going to miss whatever you are
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: clean and sober, sober from yes and missing it and
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: having cravings for it is okay, It's part of recovery. Yeah,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: And you can't you can't try and deny them, deny
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: those feelings. Otherwise you're just gonna send yourself crazy. So
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: you kind of got to see them and look them
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: straight in the face and kind of kind of steer
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: them down a little bit.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: That's sort of where I was at when I was
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: writing that.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Did you find that you could find
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: another outlet?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: So while I was right before I got clean and sober,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: like I had, my creativity had just vanished. I was
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: really really struggling to write. I didn't just didn't have
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the brain capacity to handle anything else.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: But then once I did, once I got sober, it
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: just like it was like the fog was just lifted
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: and all these songs started pouring out.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. I'm so glad that you are
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: able to, you know, be here today and that you're
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: okay and doing well. And it's no small feat. Yeah,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: going through addiction and yeah, all of that so well done.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: It's wild.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah it is. And the title alone Carries Weight is
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: the song about falling back into something or fighting not to.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: You've kind of already added that.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: About fighting fighting not to, wanting to, wanting to keep
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: keep getting better and keep doing better.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the song's not so much about relapsing. It's about like, God,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: I really hope I don't relapse. Yeah, yeah, definitely, that's
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: that's sort of the message.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the tempo is quite restrained, almost patient. Was
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: that intentional to let the lyrics breathe?
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Definitely.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: So when we were rehearsing the song getting ready to
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: record it a drama, Chip kept because like we all
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: come from punk bands, so he just had to keep
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: being like, I think we really got to let this one,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: let this one breathe, like, let the let the tone
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: of the song and the song itself like just kind
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: of sit and not not rushed to be anywhere, which
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: is kind of what like being sober and going through
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: all that's kind of about like being in the president,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: not trying to skip ahead, just sort of let things breathe,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: let them exist the way they're meant to.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well put And I was going to ask you
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: as well. You just mentioned Chip there, but I was
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: going to ask you on when you produce the song,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: who was there in the background for you? Was it
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: you your guitar? Obviously we've got Chip on drums if
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: I'm right, So.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: We had Chip on drums.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Tommy Tommy Hills on the bass, Sean Anderson on the
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: other guitar, Tim Bennett on pedal steel, Sam on piano,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: and then this girl Izzy came in and laid down.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Some violin on it.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: That's fine.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Vettie Viles just did some harmonies on it.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's awesome.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: It was a big It was a big group mostly yeah,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: mostly all recorded live too.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: Wow. I was gonna say, because I did hear some
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: strings in there, I'm like, that's really cool. I wonder
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: who's on that?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just the and doniel Antics, who pre produced the track,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: recommended her.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: He's worked with her a couple of times.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, as I was just listening to it when we
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: were working on it, just being like it needs a
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: little lead instrument somewhere.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, No, it's perfect. And how did that process
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: come about? I know you guys all were you did
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: someone like lay their tracks down first and then you
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: put your vocals in or were the vocals first?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Sort of No, So when we went to record it,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: we did.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: We had me me on me on acustic guitar, shown
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: on the on electric guitar, Tommy on the bass, Chip
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: on drums, Tim on the pedal steel and SM on piano.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: That was that was all live in the room.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: We were all in the same room together, all miked up,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: nothing like closed off for anything.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: We all had clear eyeline with each other.
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  Speaker 3: All right.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to capture like a vibe of a
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: band playing and not perfectly captured take stacked on top
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: of each other.
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  Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely when you laid the track down. I guess
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: this is kind of I didn't explain myself very well,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: but when you were laying the track down, did you
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: think of all the musical parts in your head first
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: or did everyone else, you know, kind of put their
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: input first and send them to you and then that's
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: how the track was created.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: No, I was pretty I was kind of pretty firm
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: on what on what I somewhat wanted everyone to do.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I've worked with all those like first time working with SM,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: but everyone else who was on and I've worked with before,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: so they sort of know what's know what the what
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen when you when you work with me?
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it was not like I wasn't.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like I came into the room with like
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: sheet music for everyone like this this is what you're
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: going to play. Yeah, I just find and some songwriters
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: might be different, but I tend to kind of know
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: what how I think it should it should sound trying
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: to the hardest part of songwriting is how do you
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: get what's in your head for the speakers that's right,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: and no one really knows. No one can really teach
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: you how to do that. There's just sort of like
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: you just practice makes perfect kind of thing doing it,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: don't you sort of explain everyone like this is this
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: is what I'm thinking, this is what I'm hearing. Let's
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: start with that, and then I want to hear what
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: you're going to how you're going to.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Interpret my vision.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: That's the whole fun of making music is to do
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: it with other people. It's a collaborative effort for sure.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: For sure. So do you have also experience on a
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: multitude of different instruments then as well.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable on guitar, drums, piano.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: And your voice has this raw, rusty edge on the track.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Is that something that's always been there or have you
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: kind of grown into it a bit.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Of both, to be honest, Yeah, it's always kind of
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: had that that texture to it, and I kind of
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: tried to try to fight it for a while, and
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: every time playing in punk bands in the past, like
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: every time we'd record whoever it was producing usou'd always
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: be like, I can just give give it a bit more,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: like I your voice when it sounds like it's on
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: the edge of kind of dying, which is which is
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: not great news to find out as a singer that
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: you got to always kind of push yourself to that point. Yeah,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: but trying to I've been lately trying to learn how
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: to control it a bit more, and you use it
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: more as a choice and a texture rather than lack
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: of knowing how to sing properly.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: No, well, I was just about to say, like it
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: really has that like restrained kind of grit to it,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: but it's kind of perfect, Like I don't want to
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: liken you to anyone, but it almost gave me like
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Cobaine sort of fun.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Really really, Yeah, he's a phenomenal singer. I don't Thinkcals
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: get talked about enough. Like his sense of pitch just
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: bang on.
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  Speaker 3: Insane right like, and the control there he knows where
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: to ye put more raspiness or happiness on and then
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: to pair back.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, brilliant exactly. I'm an agreement with you.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: And do you approach singing differently now that you're front
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  Speaker 3: and center instead of slightly shielded by a full band
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: you did just kind of go over that as well.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely you have to you have to sing better once. Yeah, once,
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  Speaker 2: there's a once you're not like because when when it's
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: like a full big rock and roll band playing, you
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: can kind of it's not so much about each individual part,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: it's how the whole thing comes together.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: It's about like energy and vibe and kind of power.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: But when you're kind of playing music a bit more
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: like this, you don't really have those I want to
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: call them like tricks to rely on, but like you're
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: just playing a bit of a different.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Game in order.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you can't then like spending you know,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: we all came from these like big loud punk rock
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: and roll bands, and not having all of those tools
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: to somewhat access kind of had this project really fun
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: for everyone and you just kind of have to. It's
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: all about this. This music is very vocal based. It's
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: all about what the thing is, what the singer is saying,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: and you're going to try and make that just as
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: compelling as possible.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: And how does that feel for you being front and
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: front and center the singer, because I know that you've
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: been in a few other bands as well, and you're
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: the guitarists and you know vocalists as well, but you're
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: not usually the lead, are you.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I've done a lot of lead vocals before they go
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: nothing where this was again like that was more about
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: like the vocals was just a part of it, you know,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I mean this is very much like the vocals are
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: front center. The vocals on Everyone of the Year, what
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: everyone's tuning into and everything else is there to support
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: support what the singer is saying.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yea, which is great, it's fun.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So it means like people get you can really spend
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of time on the on the lyrics and
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: try and say exactly what you're trying to mean.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: But then it also means that people might be paying
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: a bit more attention.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And your solo sets are described as
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: high impact despite being stripped back. What makes a quiet
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: moment powerful?
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I think I think things like that in the Life show,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: it's when you can tell that the person's really meaning
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: what they're what they're saying. Yeah, I think you can
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: just tell when people are faking it. Yes, audiences are
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: like humans are just savvy to bullshit, I think, yeah, Yeah,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: you can just kind of tell when someone's not being
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: their true self but not being authentic. And I think
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: for me, it's just like I just want to go
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: on stage and be the most honest, raw version of
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: myself that I can because I think that's what people
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: are going to connect to.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Do you miss at all the chaos
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: of like a big punk band behind you at all?
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Definitely? Definitely? Yeah, Yeah, definitely.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: It's a different it's a fun game to play, it's
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: a different it's a different beast altogether.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I just I just got a little bit.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I'd done that for so long and I just kind
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: of wanted to the music where I was at mentally
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: in the music I was writing, just lent itself to
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: this this sort of style a lot more.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I know we've got Relapse and we do
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: have a few other songs under our belt. What's next
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: for you.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Next is so much.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I got an eed P launch I just haven't publicly
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: announced yet, but that'll be March twenty eighth, be releasing
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: the full ep, so be these three singles plus three
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: more songs, and then from there I'll just keep cracking
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: on playing some shows and yeah, hopefully get back in
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: the studio make some more music.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Fantastic. I was gonna ask as well, have we got
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: some shows lined up or that's in the works.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: In the works, Yeah, I've got that launch booked.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: And then it's just it's just so hard to get
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: shows booked in Sydney these days.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I can only imagine the state of live
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: music at the moment, especially as well, is horrendous.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Just it's no one's fault, like I'm watching, I'm not
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: throwing it on another the bustle blaming anyone.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's just sort of the state we're in right now.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: It's just tough.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, And talking more a bit about
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: influences and your sound, social distortion and Justin Town's Earl
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: sit in very different emotional spaces.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Where do you see yourself between grit and vulnerability.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Somewhere somewhere right in the middle, I think, to be honest,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I probably I'll happily trade perfection for something that feels
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: real and vulnerable. I'm not the best guitar player I'm
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: not the best singer. I'm not the best songwriter, but
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I'm the best me.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Stopish. I think you are.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Being a bit modest, and I can all I can
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: do is just what I want to do. I guess
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to phrase that better.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I get what you say, and so like for me,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: it is just combining those two loves I have of
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: like really honest, authentic storytelling with raw grit kind of
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: behind that are not trying to make it too poetic like.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: M That's what I liked about Relapses as well, is
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: that it did have moments of poetic greatness in there,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: but it wasn't just fully concentrated on that, Like you're
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: not just trying to put words out there that sound pretty.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: You know, you've you're The story that you were telling
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: is relatable for I think anybody that's gone through any
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: sort of you know, hard time addiction.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny we just mentioned that because I remember
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I remember having a version of Relapse.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: That was a lot more like flowery poetic language.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just didn't hit the same. It just didn't
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: it didn't land the same, So I had to strip
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: it back to sort of the original version where it's
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: a bit more uncensored.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, but I think that was a good idea.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong. I love my flowery you know,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: sort of poetic songs and lyrics, but sometimes I think
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: to get such an important song across it is better
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: if it is stripped back, If that makes sense.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Sense, Definitely, there's there's a time. There's a time and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: place for that, you know.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Jason isbel is known for brutal honesty. How
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: honest are you willing to get in your own writing?
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Pretty? Pretty honest.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, There's not much that I've written where I'm like, oh,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I can't really put that out. I used to kind
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: of think that way in my old bands. I'd write
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: so I'd write sort of songs more in this vein,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: like a bit darker.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: And be like, oh, I don't know, like does anyone
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: really want to?
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I just feel a bit weird times, like do people
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: really just want to hear another kind of kind of
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: white guy winging about his problems?
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Like is there is there still a place? Is there
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: still a place for this? Yeah? But like what else?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: What else am I going to write about? I don't know?
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I have to just be as honestly, and that's that's
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the writing I enjoy from other people, is when they're
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: really honest exactly.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: I think obviously, you know you've got feedback and you've
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: thought about, oh, I don't know, do people really want
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: to hear this? But what has been the reaction from
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: people around you? As I imagine you might have been
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: a bit sort of did you feel a little bit
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: hesitant to play in front of other people because it's
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: so emotional?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit, especially when it's like friends and
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: family people, you know, yeah, and there, and you know,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: I'm way more upfront of my songs then than I
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: am in like my day to day life. Like you'll
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: you'll know more about me just by listening to my music.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: So Like oftentimes I feel like like I can't really
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: explain what I'm feeling. I'll just write a song and
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: then they can listen to the song and that'll that'll
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: kind of explain it best.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it can be.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: It can be a little bit strange sometimes, but it's
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: also songwriting is also an art, so you are just
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: it's not like you're just writing down your thoughts and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: putting them out, so that kind of gives you like
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: a little bit of padding, an armor in a way.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, No, I can definitely understand that, and your
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: songs explore regret and resilience. Are you writing to heal, confess,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: or document?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: It's a great question.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I think probably mostly heel. They're kind of like processing
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: in a way. I tend to not write about things
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: until it's kind of happened in a way. Yeah, Like
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I'm writing a lot of songs now about my journey
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: through sobriety that I wouldn't have been able to written
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: while I was, while I was in the thick of it. Yeah,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I kind of need that that hindsight clarity in a way,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: relax being a bit of an exception to that rule. Yeah, yeah,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I think I think my writing is for me to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: just kind of how I deal with what.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I'm what I'm thinking, and what I'm going through. Yeah,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: definitely other people can relate to that.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. I think it is really helpful that
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: you know, music like this exists because it does get
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: the attemption of people who are going through things that
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: you know, we never know unless you know them well enough,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: and then they you know, for people to connect. I
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: know for me like I do connect heavily through music
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: and the subject matter that is I never speak about
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: and music is a way to communicate that.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: The best responses they've had so far is when it's
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: other people message me who are currently like in sobriety,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: in recovery, or they're still struggling in active addiction. Yeah,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: message me saying something like this song I really need
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: to hear today.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't that? That must just feel so wonderful to me.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: You've had an impact.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: That's the best. That's the best reaction you.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Can Yeah, Oh, that's lovely. And you've sheard stages with
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: legends like Radio Birdman and Stiff Little Fingers. What did
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: that era teach you about longevity?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I think that the best thing you can really do
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: is just absolutely be your honest, brutal, authentic health. If
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: you look at any band that's stuck around for a
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: long time, it's because they were they were them. They
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: didn't try and chase trends and follow whatever they thought
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: was hip or caught at the time what they should
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: be doing. They just stuck stuck to what they were
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: good at, stuck to what they wanted to do. And
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I think as long as you ride that course, everything
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: in everything will smooth out.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And what did touring with those bands or
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: sharing the stage with some some huge fans by the way,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: what did they teach you about this whole process and
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: going solo?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I guess, just like to I think, just the same thing.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: You's got to be. It's got to be yourself.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: You can't really worry about what other people are gonna
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: going to think, because I'm sure all of these all
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: these bands at some point had friends or family.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Even with anyone being like what do you what are
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you doing?
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Mate?
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Are you sure you want.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: To get They're like no, I think I want to
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: do this. And then and then you know, that band
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: goes on to become the Ramones, you know.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Exactly exactly just so crazy and playing alongside Mike You
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Ramone and CJ. Ramone. Did that shape how you think
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: about legacy?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Definitely.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: I love that they I love that they're still flying
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the flag and keeping it going. And they've never really
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: they've never really waved on what they stood for, what
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: they were about.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: They haven't conformed to the modern world. I guess in
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: like in a way.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, were you absolutely like star Struck to play alongside them,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: It was wild.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe when we got when we got the
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: off to do it. Although Michael Mrone was.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: It was a bit rough. I was. I was so sick.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, I never yet sick, but I caught I caught
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: some super virus. I like to call out, call out
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: someone to come to my house and give me a
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: shot or something so that I could.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: To keep going.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we played our sat walked off stage. The first
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: thing I did was throw up, Oh no, oh you thing?
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: What worth it?
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Though?
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Watching watching play was incredible and same as c J,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: like it was just that music, especially at that time
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: in my life, like that, that band meant so much
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to me and to get to be a part of
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: them in even a small way like that was bliss.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is just incredible. And what did touring with
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: bands like Flogging Molly and Danko Jones teach you about
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: connecting with the crowd.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: That Like, without the crowd connection, you're just a band
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: playing songs.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, people don't. People don't go.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: To gigs for the music almost in a way, they
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: go to connect with you and connect with everyone else
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: there in the crowd, and there is something like all
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: those great gigs, there is something special about when you've
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: got a band on fire and the crowd responding, responding
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: to it and giving back. It's a bit of like
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a closed circle sort of thing, like
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: one one can't exist without without the other, like.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: A symbiotic relation and ship almost. Yeah.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you can really dig into that and tie
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: into that in I think I think that's what people
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: really want. They want to feel connected to you.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: That's so true. I really like what you said there
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: about people going to see live music and not really
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: going there for the music, Like of course they.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Are, but yeah, something there for the music, but like, yeah,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: there's a reason why we want to see it live.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the reason why we want to see it live.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: With other people exactly exactly.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: There's something special that just happens in the air when
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: all those all those things are just firing and firing together.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Speaking more of do you have any like dream
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: festivals or gigs or even venues that you'd love to
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: play and more?
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Theater has always sort of been a bit of a goal.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I'd love to be able to say that I played
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: that stage. Yes, Blues first would be great.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Playing with just the Jason Iss bell would be it
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: would be pretty pretty iconic.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: That'd be a hard one to forget.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I don't really I don't really spend too much time
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: sort of fantasizing about those kind of things, though, to
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: be honest, that's fair enough to try try and stay grounded.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh no, that's so fair enough. And if
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: someone walks away from your show remembering one line, what
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: do you hope it is?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good question.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Probably maybe the last line the course from from Ready
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: to Leave Hell, which is we'll see how strong my
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: heart isn't ready to leave Hell, which just kind of
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: sums up where I was at when I wrote that song,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: which is also like I wrote that in Early Recovery too, with.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Just yeah, let's just let's just let's give this a go.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Let's try. The worst thing you can do, worse than
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: worse than failing is not trying beautiful?
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: And what's it might be the same one, But what's
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: one lyric you're most proud of?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Probably probably most of the lyrics are ready to leave Hell?
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: To be honest, I think that just that just really
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: summed up where I was at at that time and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: making a commitment to myself to change and to try
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: and be better.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: That's awesome. And looking back on the song, how do
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: you feel now?
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I did it. It took me a
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: long time to finally to finally quit. Like it wasn't
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: just like an overnight decision of just yeah, I'm done.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Like it was a long time. A lot of behind
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the scenes weren't going on, just like trying and failing,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: trying and failing, trying and failing.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And then when.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I went and got when I realized that it was
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: getting pretty serious, and when I got professional help, and
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: then it started to really change for good. And I
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: just kind of look back with gratitude and I'm glad
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: that I get to talk about that in the past tense.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And then I'm not still in it. Yes, yes, and
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just glad. I'm just happy I didn't quit quitting.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: What the first album that made you want to write
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: your own songs?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, probably something by A. C.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: D C.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: That was what really got me into music.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I remember I was learning guitar at school just because
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: like we we had to.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: There was a music class and I had a guitar, so.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: It was all right, we'll learn guitar, and I wasn't
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: really into it for like the first year year or two,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: so I was just doing like to enjoy and little exercises.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Then we learned n T and then it was a
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: game change. That was like when I connected that, like, oh,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: this instrument makes music and this music sounds good.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of going.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And then from from from there I started writing straight away. Really,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I can't remember a time where I wasn't messing around
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: with songs that that that weren't very good, but I was. Yeah,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I think from the get go, like once I was,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: once I had made the connection that like, this instrument
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: makes music, This isn't just a a class like a
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: thing in school. Yeah, I think I was pretty off
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: to the races they're trying to create stuff with it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Wow, from such a young age.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably like.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Ten maybe, Yeah, yeah, around that time, I think far out.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: That's awesome. And then singing as well. Did that come
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: up obviously a little bit later or kind of at
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: the same time.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Singing came a lot later.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I always like singing, always wanted to be a singer.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: It was just so hard.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I feel you. I cannot sing to this.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Saying singing is tough because like you can't you can't
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: see it. It's not like you can just yeah, you
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: can't just point to it. You can't point to the
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: right threat or the right key on the piano. Yeah, like, no,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: it's meant to be that one. You just got to
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Like it's all internal, it's physical too, definitely.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Do you know that just that kind of came about.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I just I think I just I was writing so
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: many songs and it was just like at some point
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: was like I just got to work out this this.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Thing and thing.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of weird too to hear other people
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: sing your songs.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it would be. And do you know what's
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: funny is that, like I still can't sing to this day,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: but I have tried once. But there's actually so much
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: more that goes into it than what I thought, like
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: just from hearing someone's voice, like tongue placement, everything pitched,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: all of that sort of thing.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like, incredibly, it's an incredibly physical thing.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And last question, what's the loudest crowd
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: you've ever played to?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Probably flogging Molly's crowd at Metro Theater. It was sold
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: out for everyone was there early, so everyone got to
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: see us. That was probably like one that's one of
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: the most fun gigs I ever played too. That was
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: one of those things where it's just like we were
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: doing great because the crowd was great, and because the
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: crowd was great, we were doing better, which then crowd
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: get more into it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: There was just there was.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Something in the air that night, and then Flogging Molly
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: came on and just like the places went nice.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Oh god man, that's so awesome. And then just lastly,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: is there anything else you wanted to say talk about
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: maybe set your fans or anything like.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: That, not too too much.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I guess what they really want to say is that
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: if you're in a position where things are not looking good,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: if you're struggling, there is help available and you can change.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly And it is so nice once again that
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: you've been able to transform that for yourself into something
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: that you know is positive and can hopefully help some
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: people as well.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lovely, awesome, thank you, Yeah that's the goal.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well done, Hayden, Thank you so much for your
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: time today.